Fromm Four Star Nutritionals (Dry)


Rating: ★★★★☆

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Dog Food receives the Advisor’s second-highest tier rating of 4 stars.

The Fromm Four Star Nutritionals product line includes 5 dry dog foods.

Each recipe below includes its related AAFCO nutrient profile when available on the product’s official webpage: Growth, Maintenance, All Life Stages, Supplemental or Unspecified.

Important: Because many websites do not reliably specify which Growth or All Life Stages recipes are safe for large breed puppies, we do not include that data in this report. Be sure to check actual packaging for that information.

  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Salmon A La Veg [A]
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Chicken A La Veg [A]
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Duck and Sweet Potato [A]
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Whitefish and Potato (3.5 stars) [A]
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Pork and Applesauce (3.5 stars) [A]

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Duck and Sweet Potato was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Duck and Sweet Potato

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 27% | Fat = 17% | Carbs = 49%

Ingredients: Duck, duck meal, pearled barley, sweet potatoes, brown rice, oatmeal, white rice, dried whole egg, millet, dried tomato pomace, safflower oil, cheese, flaxseed, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, apples, green beans, chicken cartilage, potassium chloride, cranberries, blueberries, salt, monocalcium phosphate, calcium sulfate, chicory root extract, alfalfa sprouts, Yucca schidigera extract, sodium selenite, folic acid, taurine, parsley, sorbic acid (preservative), vitamins, minerals, probiotics

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 3.9%

Red items indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
Guaranteed Analysis24%15%NA
Dry Matter Basis27%17%49%
Calorie Weighted Basis23%35%42%
Protein = 23% | Fat = 35% | Carbs = 42%

The first ingredient in this dog food is duck. Although it is a quality item, raw duck contains up to 73% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The second ingredient is duck meal. Duck meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh duck.

The third ingredient is barley. Barley is a starchy carbohydrate supplying fiber and other healthy nutrients. However, aside from its energy content, this cereal grain is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The fourth ingredient includes sweet potatoes. Sweet potatoes are a gluten-free source of complex carbohydrates in a dog food. They are naturally rich in dietary fiber and beta carotene.

The fifth ingredient is brown rice, a complex carbohydrate that (once cooked) can be fairly easy to digest. However, aside from its natural energy content, rice is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The sixth ingredient is oatmeal, a whole-grain product made from coarsely ground oats. Oatmeal is naturally rich in B-vitamins, dietary fiber and can be (depending upon its level of purity) gluten-free.

The seventh ingredient is white rice, a less nutritious form of rice in which the grain’s healthier outer layer has been removed.

The eighth ingredient includes dried whole egg, a dehydrated powder made from shell-free eggs. Eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

The ninth ingredient lists millet, a gluten-free grain harvested from certain seed grasses. Millet is hypoallergenic and naturally rich in B-vitamins and fiber as well as other essential minerals.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With five notable exceptions

First, tomato pomace is a controversial ingredient, a by-product remaining after processing tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.

Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content, while others scorn it as an inexpensive pet food filler.

Just the same, there’s probably not enough tomato pomace here to make much of a difference.

Next, safflower oil is nutritionally similar to sunflower oil. Since these oils are high in omega-6 fatty acids and contain no omega-3’s, they’re considered less nutritious than canola or flaxseed oils.

Safflower oil is notable for its resistance to heat damage during cooking.

In addition, flaxseed is one of the best plant sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Provided they’ve first been ground into a meal, flax seeds are also rich in soluble fiber.

However, flaxseed contains about 19% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

Next, chicory root is rich in inulin, a starch-like compound made up of repeating units of carbohydrates and found in certain roots and tubers.

Not only is inulin a natural source of soluble dietary fiber, it’s also a prebiotic used to promote the growth of healthy bacteria in a dog’s digestive tract.

And lastly, although the vitamins and minerals added to this product are not detailed sufficiently here to permit us to judge their quality, we’re reassured to find a detailed list of naturally present nutrients on the company’s website.

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Fromm Four Star Nutritionals looks like an above-average dry dog food.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 27%, a fat level of 17% and estimated carbohydrates of about 49%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 27% and a mean fat level of 16%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 50% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 59%.

Near-average protein. Near-average fat. And near-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

When you consider the protein-boosting effect of the flaxseed in this recipe and the pea protein contained in another recipe, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a moderate amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals is a plant-based dry dog food using a moderate amount of named meats as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 4 stars.

Highly recommended.

Please note certain recipes are sometimes given a higher or lower rating based upon our estimate of their total meat content and (when appropriate) their fat-to-protein ratios.

Those looking for a wet food from the same company may wish to visit our review of Fromm Four Star Nutritionals canned dog food.

Fromm Dog Food
Recall History

The following list (if present) includes all dog food recalls since 2009 directly related to this product line. If there are no recalls listed in this section, we have not yet reported any events.

You can view a complete list of all dog food recalls sorted by date. Or view the same list sorted alphabetically by brand.

To learn why our ratings have nothing to do with a product’s recall history, please visit our Dog Food Recalls FAQ page.

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A Final Word

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Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, due to the biological uniqueness of every animal, none of our ratings are intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in a specific dietary response or health benefit for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

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Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

09/22/2017 Last Update

  • Bill Christensen

    We purchased Fromm Chicken A La Veg and notice the food had worms crawling in the bag. We returned to PetPeople where we purchased the food and they stated that others had experienced the same issue. I was very disappointed in Fromm after speaking with them as they did not take any responsibility for the concern. We will not be feeding our dog any product from From going forward. We have also discontinued doing business with PetPeople due to their lack of reaction to the situation. To our knowledge, they continued to sell the contanimated food after being made aware of the situation.

  • Ryan Clark


  • Susan

    Hi, the Duck & Sweet Potatoes also has NO peas…

  • Gail LaBine

    Hello Tina there is a salmon and sweet potato food by Canadian Naturals with no peas it is a limited ingredient diet

  • Krista

    Has anyone noticed the Fromm four star grain free line has a very strong aroma compared to the four star line with grains? I’ve tried beef frittata, salmon tunalini and now chicken a la veg. The first two had a really meaty and cheesy smell but the chicken one is much milder smelling. Does anyone know why this is?

  • Tina Nichter

    I have a yellow lab that is allergic to peas, (along with so many other things). I real label after label trying to find a dog food that did not have peas in it. Fromm Chicken a la veggie passed. Most of the ingredients he can eat and the ones listed that he has some allergy to are down in the list so it is not a prominent ingredient. He is not chewing on his paws as much and I hope to be able to get him off the allergy shots all together of this next year. On a side note I do make homemade “wet” dog food that I mix in with the dry. I was not as successful finding canned dog food without peas.

  • Kay

    Get a slow bowl, it forces the dog to eat much slower.

  • theBCnut

    Absolute minimum of 3 brands, but I really prefer 5.

  • Krista

    Great, thanks! This makes sense. What’s the minimum number of brands you would feed?

  • theBCnut

    The biggest issue with creating a healthy gut is that dogs can handle pathogenic bacteria in their “food”, if they have a healthy gut. What you are really doing is feeding as wide a variety of probiotics in the dog’s gut as you can, so when your dog does the inevitable and eats that dead frog, his gut bacteria are able to handle the competition against the bad bacteria, and your dog doesn’t get sick, because those bad bacteria didn’t get the chance to grow before they were overwhelmed.

  • theBCnut

    The only issues I know of grain vs grain free are food sensitivity or some inflammatory disease. If your dog doesn’t have issues with either of these, feed as wide a variety of foods as you can. I have 2 dogs with grain issues, so I only buy grain free foods, but one of my dogs is fine with grains, so I add grains into his diet when we are having something with grains for our dinner.

  • theBCnut

    For a long time I was buying small bags and had 4 bags open at once and switched every single meal, brand and protein. Now I buy larger bags and switch after every bag, BUT I also add stuff to my dogs’ diets and that still changes every meal. It’s entirely up to you. But if you only have one dog, you should not buy bags that last longer than around 2-3 weeks. The fats in the food start to oxidize the moment you open the bag and oxidized fats are not healthy, free radicals and all that. Also, make sure that you keep dog food in it’s original bag and roll down the top and squeeze all the air out after scooping out food. The less light and oxygen that gets to the food the better.

  • theBCnut

    When you stick with only one brand, you dog gets the same vitamin/mineral premix every day for life. That would be fine if you believe that they actually have their formulation perfect, but since they still find they are wrong about what they thought dogs need, I don’t believe it is possible for them to be perfect. Also, within a brand, the ingredient further down the list tend to be exactly the same, so really, the only change in diet is the first 2 or 3 ingredients. If that brand ever had a recall and the food had to be switched, the dog would still get all those gastrointestinal symptoms that tell you your dog does not have a healthy gut.

  • InkedMarie

    Very good post!

  • Krista

    So I’m looking at some brands that I like and they all look fairly similar. They either use potatoes or peas or both as their main carb source. I found one that uses tapioca.

    What brands do you recommend for variety?

    Here’s the ones I like: (they all seem similar through, except maybe Orijen/Acana)

    Natures logic
    Wellness core
    Taste of the wild
    Wild calling
    Natures variety
    Earthborn holistic
    Pure vita
    Solid gold

  • Krista

    I would have to agree with you on that. I think people just don’t know that it’s good to do more than one brand. It makes sense to me. People don’t eat the same things day in and day out so why should dogs. Vets don’t seem to know either but most reccomend science diet.

    Thats what I think is good to do too. (rotating every bag)
    A small bag lasts my dog about one month. I’m assuming it’s ok to to rotate brands every bag and not just flavors? Also my dog has been on mostly grain free. Will grains cause loose stools do you think?

    Thanks again for chatting with me! This has been very helpful!

  • Storm’s Mom

    Broad sweeping generalization coming, but I would say that a lot of people recommend only one brand out of fear – fear of what happened the one or two times they tried to change their dog’s food and it went badly for whatever reason (perhaps because they didn’t do it correctly/gradually enough), and fear of having it happen again. The 1st time I switched Storm’s food, it went really badly too (explosive diarrhea when I went to a majority of new kibble mixed in with the one he was eating), because I tried to switch too quickly. I contemplated staying with the same food because I didn’t want the poor thing to experience that sort of thing again (and I knew it was entirely my fault for trying to move the transition along too quickly), but I wasn’t convinced that, in the long term, that was in his best interests, mainly for reasons theBCnut mentioned. After that first switch, the next few times I switched his food, I did it over several weeks and used probiotics, digestive enzyymes, and had canned pure pumpkin (not the pie filling stuff) on hand. Now, he can switch “cold turkey”, but it can take a lot of patience, which, I would argue, most people don’t have when feeding their dogs.

    I feed mostly grain-free, but do throw in a grain-inclusive kibble every so often. I agree with theBCnut in saying that you should feed as wide a variety of foods as you can, food intolerance/allergies permitting. If your dog doesn’t show signs of an intolerance or allergy to grains, I see no reason to exclude them from a rotation. I usually rotate every bag, although sometimes I’ll find something I really like how he does on, so I’ll stay with it for a couple bags (a small bag usually lasts 2-3 weeks for my guy).

  • Krista

    So I’m guessing that by feeding many different brands you are basically creating a strong gut and immune system that can handle a variety of different foods. This is healthy because they are getting many different nutrient profiles from different brands. Versus just getting one nutrient profile from just one brand.

    Does this sound right?

  • Krista

    I replied but I can’t find my reply anywhere on here.

    That’s interesting because so many people recommend only feeding one brand. They must just not know any better. It would make sense that they can handle a variety of brands. Is it ok to feed both grain and grain free? Or do you just recommend sticking to grain free? Also how often do you rotate brands and protein sources?

  • Krista

    I just replied but I don’t think it sent directly to you. Just wanted to let you know. Thanks!

  • Krista

    Ok this makes sense. I wonder why so many people only tell me to feed one brand. I guess they just don’t know any better.

    Would it be ok to use both grain and grain free for even more variety or do you just stick to grain free? Because Fromm has some good options that include grains as well as grain free. Also, how often do you rotate brands and protein sources?

    Thanks again!

  • Storm’s Mom

    Not “harmful” but also not ideal. By rotating only the protein within a brand, you’re basically feeding the same food except for 1 or 2 ingredients. This isn’t a rotation, really, and it isn’t going to help a dog’s digestive tract get used to different kinds of foods (nor will it prevent an intolerance or allegy that long-term exposure to an ingredient may bring about). In my rotation, I always try to find the most different kibble from the previous one fed that I can….different proteins, different types of carbs, different fat/oil, etc. You won’t be able to do that by staying with the same brand.

  • Krista

    That’s great to hear! I will defiantly do this then. Would it be harmful to feed one brand but use all their protein sources? That’s what my mom does. She only likes using one brand.


  • InkedMarie

    It is but we miss her round here 🙂

  • Krista

    Good for her! That’s awesome!

  • Krista

    Also, how often do you change brands and protein sources?

  • Krista

    Great, I will defiantly do this then! Is it ok to use just one brand though and rotate protein sources? That’s what my mom does.

  • theBCnut

    Yes, it’s a myth perpetuated by dog food companies to create brand loyalty. In reality, a dog’s digestive tract act a lot like ours in that if you ate one thing and one thing only, your body would adjust to eating only that one thing. If you were to suddenly change what you were eating, you would definitely get diarrhea and possibly vomiting or worse. That’s why they recommend changing foods slowly, to avoid the diarrhea that comes from staying on one thing too long. So you want to start a rotational diet slowly, but as time goes on and your dog gets used to switching foods, you will be able to speed up transitions until you don’t need them at all any more. With my own dogs, I have seen so many health benefits from feeding this way.

  • InkedMarie

    HoundDogmom isnt around anymore (she’s in vet school)

  • Krista


    You seem to give good advice. Is it ok to use ten different brands? Is it a myth that using more than one brand will cause problems? Because I like about ten different brands but have heard it’s not good to feed this many.

  • Krista

    Great, so would using ten brands upset a dogs system? My dog has no food sensitivities that I’m aware of. I’m hesitant because I’ve been told that you should only use one brand otherwise it can create problems. Is this just a myth?

  • theBCnut

    I use as many foods that I can find that fit my criteria. If you can find ten foods that your dog does great on then go for it. I have one dog that has no food issues except he rejects the lower protein foods, which is ok with me since I won’t use them anymore. I have one dog that has food sensitivities to chicken and grains, so I’m a little more limited on what she can eat, but there are still plenty of choices. And I have one that has many food sensitivities that so far, I can only find one brand for him, but I also make homemade raw, so he still gets plenty of variety.

  • Krista

    How many brands do you use in your rotational diet? Will using ten upset their system? That’s what I wanted to do but I’m not sure if it’s ok. What do you think?

  • Adrienne

    I have a Schnauzer/Yorkie mix & a rescue that might be Brussels Griffon/Schnauzer. I transitioned from Hills Science Diet in January 2016 to Fromm 4-Star. So far my dogs have tried all the recipes except for Pork and Applesauce. I have 1 problem with the dog food and that is the kibble size. I understand they don’t make larger kibble due to how they “process” the kibble but my rescue tends to swallow the kibble rather than chewing it like he did the science diet. Both my dogs are about 16lbs, the yorkie mix chews her food but my rescue swallows more than he chews. I bought him a slow feeder bowl in hopes it would slow him down and it does but I still worry about “bloat”.

    My dogs seem to really like the Fromm line – I don’t want to switch to something else. How can you tell what is a good portion of the carbs, proteins and fats that a dog should have? The duck and sweet potato has a lot of carbs. Is that good?

    Also my rescue has a history of mild seizures occasionally when he gets nervous. I’ve read that rosemary extract could be linked to seizures. I am trying to stay way from treats that contain rosemary and I noticed the Fromm treats don’t have rosemary so I might be buying a couple of those for him to try.

    Any input would be much appreciated.

  • David K. White

    Our 12 week old Pomeranian (Angel Baby) loves the Fromm Four-Star Cheese Low-Fat Dog Treats.

  • Jesse

    Thank you for sharing your experience! We’re currently on Pork & Peas and love it. I am thinking what flavors to try next.

  • Thehappymutts

    I used to feed my dog Kirkland Nature’s Domain, which I knew wasn’t the best food. And, my dog started to lose interest in her kibble, so I decided to look for something new. I looked at Orijen and Acana, but my wallet screamed at the sight of those, haha! Fromm is more expensive than some others, but definitely a reasonable price! And, the quality seems good. I love how they’ve never been recalled too. I started to transition her by mixing a little bit of Fromm in her food – she ate it instantly (after weeks of struggle to get her to eat her kibble in a timely fashion)! I love how this diet is intended to be rotational to help prevent boredom of the same food over and over. I bought the Pork & Applesauce this time, probably will buy a different flavor when we finish the bag.

  • ResqDogz

    I have been feeding my “forever pack” (now down to seven, aging mixed-breed rescued abuse and abandonment survivors) a combination of Fromm’s Chicken-a-la-Veg, Salmon-a-la-Veg, and Pork & Applesauce (in equal proportions) for years, now – with excellent results: Smaller, firmer stool tell me they’re receiving much greater nutritional values sans waste fillers (and it’s much easier to police their wastes), and my vet constantly raves about their “perfect 5” body scores, eye, coats, ears, teeth, and overall health.
    I purchase their (not-for-resale) 40# so-called “breeder bags” (a moniker that’s anathema to those of us in the rescue and advocacy community) at VERY competitive pricing.. and it give me great comfort to know their products are produced in their own, dedicated production facility from domestically sourced, human-grade ingredients!
    I occasionally supplement with infrequent treats of beef, chicken, turkey, and pork, and snack of veggies or fruits.
    Of course, they receive premium grade Wet Noses treats, as well – and each receives daily cold-water salmon oil, glucosamine, and chondroitin supplements (which do wonders for arthritic joints) – plus the occasional maintenance meds as aging infirmities dictate.

  • Liz

    Definitely go for the grain free line. They have a new flavor, Hasen Duckenpfeffer, which my dog loves. It’s grain free with rabbit, duck, pork, and veggies. They also have a beef flavor and a wild game flavor that are highly rated.

  • Liz

    I would not hesitate to get Fromm. They have high standards and never had to recall their food. If you have a local independent pet food store and they carry the brand, they probably have samples.

  • Tony Burton

    hi, i am getting a golden pup, and am confused what to feed any idea’s. is there a diff between fromm and ANP ?

  • theBCnut

    I can tell you from personal experience with a number of vets that just like people everywhere, most don’t know how important a good diet is or how it affects everything. Though more and more of them are encouraged in vet school to get involved in running and other sports and if they really get into their sport, they eventually learn about the importance of diet, and then they are ready to understand how diet affects their patients. THEN, if a client who is also informed about the importance of nutrition want to discuss it, they will be ready to go there. But since most of them are not that well versed and their clients are not that well versed, the discussion usually never takes place. If a vet is pushing commercial food, they are not well versed in nutrition and still believe processed is every bit as good as fresh or they believe their clients will never take the time to feed their animals properly because they see the signs that they won’t feed themselves properly.

  • Erica Kortje

    I will tell you why a very large majority of vets (mind you not all vets) get aggravated when it comes to the topic of nutrition. The answer is very obvious…. If pet owners were more conscious & more educated on the nutritional values of the ingredients they put into their dogs & cats bodies as they are with their own a lot of vets would no longer have a thriving business of animals coming & going through their doors left & right with ailments that are often unexplained, skin allergies, intestinal parasites, joint issues, heart, kidney & liver disfunctions, digestion difficulties and so on and so forth… The list goes on. Anyone including your pets veterinarian can but won’t always tell you it’s ALL ABOUT NUTRITION! Vets are not stupid, believe me they know. If we fed our pets USDA certified meat and other fresh species of animals, such as fish, game fowl and so forth and we prepared the food correctly, which means carefully not to heat it too much to where you are not cooking all of the nutrients out of the meal. Then adding all the proper fruits & veggies to the meal that has been specially formulated to your dogs or cats specific dietary & nutritional needs & taste preferences. You also have to keep in mind certain breeds require different nutrients & vitamins for instance larger breeds of dog have more problems with their hips than say a small toy breed would have. Or a dachshund may be more susceptible to experience spinal injuries more so than a jack russell terrier. So each breed may require different nutrients in their everyday diets to build up strength & antibodies to naturally fight off these ailments as mentioned above and overall have better health to have a better chance of becoming a victim certain injuries that are common place in some specific breeds. Having being fed proper nutrition & living a healthy lifestyle pets can recover from illness if & when they do fall ill, but you’ll find when their diets are prepared with natural, healthy and fresh ingredients without all the biproducts, fillers, preservatives and the many common 23+ letter word chemicals listed in the ingredients on the back or bottom of the bag of most all dry kibble available on the market today… You’ll be amazed if you ever again find yourself at the veterinarian writing a check for $350 because your dog has an ear infection or is pooping blood again. Vets are recommending only the foods that are displayed in their practices where the manufacturers offer perks to them when their products are sold. Just like how they acquire the medication they prescribe. It comes from pharmaceutical reps who represent the big pharmaceutical companies who offer perks to the doctors for the amount of their medications the doctor distributes to their animal patients every month. Medical veterinarians would not survive if it weren’t for our pets getting sick all of the time. And that simply does not happen when fed a nutritional balanced meal with ingredients high in quality, minus all the cardboard crap that comes in dry kibble today. Not to forget…. Your pets will live a much longer & happier life as well! Below are two links that I think you might find quite helpful if you’re interested in educating yourself further on this subject….

  • Pork recipe includes pea protein, the other two recipes you mentioned do not.

  • Marc Benassi

    Does anyone know why the pork and apple sauce has the same rating as the whitefish (3.5)? Seems to me that the pork’s nutritional value is very similar to the chicken a LA veg.

    Crude Protein 24% MIN Crude Fat 15% MIN

    Crude Protein 24% MIN Crude Fat 14% MIN

    Crude Protein 23% MIN Crude Fat 11% MIN

  • Bobby dog

    Hi Haley:
    I have not bought a bag of Fromm treats, but my pet store gave me a handful to try. My dog is particular about store bought biscuits so I make my own, however he did like these. He will also eat one each time he visits the store. I do like the company and feed several of their kibble recipes to both my dog and cats. Your puppy is absolutely adorable, good like finding him goodies he likes!

  • Haley Freese

    Has anyone tried Fromm’s dog treats? I am thinking about getting some for my corgi puppy. Also, since I’m a proud new momma I have to include a picture or two 🙂

  • Crazy4dogs

    It’s great that your pup is doing so well on Fromm! It’s a good product. I think a lot of dogs either like or don’t like fish because it tends to have the strongest scent. Mine love fish. 🙂

    I used to feed these before I switched to grain free. Just an FYI, these are actually are a grain based food. If your dog is doing well, then I’d stay with it. If you notice any issues, you might try their grain free formulas.

  • liberallover

    My Dog chose the whitish and potato recipe from Fromm everyday over the period of a week out of a variety from 6 of thier samples. She made the taste test process interesting because I was certain she would sample others but each time that was first and finished before moving on to any of the others. Then I thought perhaps the other samples were stale so a few months later after she had eaten only the whitish and potato mixed with cooked peas and carrots, that she would delight in the variety of multiple samples. Again, nothing but whitefish and potato, then the others in order of preference. I have since found she Loves, loves, LoVes fish, then chicken, then pork and red meat, and could totally live without duck. Who knew my 80 lb pound puppy would be so particular? And we switched to Fromm for her weight on grain based foods from pet supply chains, kept going up and up even with exercise, which leveled out after dropping a bit to a healthier 72 on the Fromm formula. She has been on it for almost a year now and still digging in!

  • Karen Tewart

    This company’s products do not show up anywhere on your recall list. To my knowledge they have never had a recall. I have been feeding them to my collies of different ages for many years. It is the *only* dog food I can buy with confidence on the market. There are many formulas of Fromm I have used a bunch of them with good success. Most highly recommended. Karen Tewart Bellwether Collies ( Retired 1994-2009) Western PA, USA . BTW, If you are feeding processed chicken treats to your pets, you are playing Russian Roulette with their lives. Horrible products.

  • me

    This is owner error, not error on the dog food manufacturer. You should have checked the label for known allergens or switched your dog off when you noticed strange things happening. Besides, if you work in the rescue community and everyone told you it was crap then why did you buy it for your dog?

    Fromm’s has quality ingredients and is a high quality dog food. It’s refreshing to see a company that cares about the ingredients and quality of their dog food.

  • aquariangt

    The ingredient list on the two is slightly different, so it could have to do with that. Hard to say totally, he may be digesting less from the P+A than he was on the D+S. I’d probably suggest trying the grain free line

  • psat128

    Ive been using Fromms Pork & Applesauce lately…and my dog poops more frequently with more volume….she was on the Duck & Sweet Potato first, which gave her mad gas… I switched to the Pork, less gas but more poop??
    Any thoughts? Curious if Fromms is the reason of more frequent poops or just flavor….

  • Lori Dolan Revilla

    Transitioning Charlie to Fromm Duck & Sweet Potato from Fromm’s Large Breed Puppy. This has been the absolute best food I have ever fed my dogs, and I’m sorry I didn’t discover it earlier with my other dogs. Even though I brush them, his teeth are fantastic, there’s no bad breath and no tummy/intestinal upset. Anyone having intestinal issues, I recommend 1. Making sure you’re mixing the current food with the new in equal parts and 2. Ensuring your dog has not picked up giardia. I originally had Mr. Charlie on Orijen and mistakenly thought the high protein was causing his problem. Nope. A case of rescue dog giardia was the culprit (although it can be anywhere), and a 6-day dose of Panacur was all he needed. So, I kept him on the Fromm anyway, and success!

  • Dori

    Not at my expense. I too have off days, I do not take it out on others. My mother would be rolling over if I did.

  • theBCnut

    Aimee, I’m talking about the same dog. My dogs couldn’t handle food changes without getting diarrhea. My dogs couldn’t handle eating something strange that they found without getting diarrea. Since putting them on a rotational diet, they do not get diarrhea any time when they suddenly get something different, including dead frogs on the road or high fat foods.
    Angel took a month to change foods before I started feeding a rotational diet, now I feed one food one day, and another the next, with no stomach upset, ever. Same with my other 2, but I started rotating with them much younger, so that could have something to do with their cases. But not Angel, she was 10 when I started rotating foods with her, and she always got diarrhea with a food change before.

  • aimee

    Maybe I’m just more flexible than others. Anyone can have an off day/moment. I certainly do.

  • aimee

    Is their something “wrong” with the GI tract of a dog that does better with a gradual switch when changing diets vs another dog that can make the switch suddenly or is it that they are just “different” ?

    I’m comfortable saying they are different but can’t bring myself to say that one situation is always healthier than the other.

  • aimee

    I can only give you my opinion. Though generalists, veterinarian have access to a great number of resources including specialists . I’ve found that veterinarians who are boarded in nutrition, in regards to commercial pet food primarily chose/ recommend foods from the large companies Hill’s, Purina, Mars.

    For some veterinarians that may be the end of where their interest lies. They want to make a solid nutritional recommendation and they look to the specialists in the field for that recommendation.

    My opinion only, they may not understand why the specialist has made that recommendation and so can’t pass that information on to the client that is before them, or they understand in part but can’t communicate it well or the receiver of the communication isn’t open to hearing the whys and hows of the explanation.

    I think the frustration comes from lack of effective communication.

    Yes, absolutely, if a vet can’t answer a question they should be able/willing to refer that person to someone who knows the answer or get the answer.

  • Leopotato

    Thanks Dori

    I’ll be doing it very slowly. I have some hope chicken will be OK because Harry the lab eats Maggie’s poo on occasion and she eats the chicken. He doesn’t seem to have a problem digesting that.

  • Dori

    It’s my opinion that regardless of the explanation there is no reason for the visible aggravation regardless of whether it was with the dogs owner or anything else that may have gone on with the vet that day be it another client or staff or personal life. As I said previously, aimee, it’s my opinion and I would certainly have to reevaluate my relationship with that particular vet and the facility. I’m not okay with taking one of my animals, or myself for that matter, to a doctor to get medical assistance, which is what we are there for, and be concerned as to what may have transpired in their day to cause them to take their frustration out on me. If the vet was genuinely annoyed with Roger, I still contend that there is no reason to act in such a manner that Roger knew it. It’s not professional. If he was annoyed or aggravated with something else in his life that went on that day, I still say it is unprofessional and I just wouldn’t stand for it. I may see things differently than some others as I have some years on me and know that life is much too short to put up this type of behavior. I no longer think that doctor’s are the be all and end all nor do I think anyone is (people, I mean). Of course my dogs are. As they say, with age comes wisdom. I no longer suffer boorish people, I just move on. That’s just me!

  • theBCnut

    I didn’t reply to one particular part of this earlier, guess I wasn’t paying attention to the details. I have no study to link to because I don’t think anyone who is paying for studies would pay for someone to show that moving an animal away from their food is the best thing they can do, but common sense dictates that if you leave a dog on a food long term and it gets an upset stomach when it’s food is changed, its gut has something wrong with it compared to the same dog that after rotating diets can eat anything anytime without any upset. There is something lacking in the dog that can’t change foods without upset.
    Vets are recommending staying on the same diet long term to prevent stomach upset. Diet rotation prevents stomach upset. If you keep your dog on the same diet to prevent stomach upset, sooner or later, they are going to eat something that isn’t in their diet.
    As far as your last paragraph, depending on how you define primarily, I completely agree with you. If you mean a dog fed on a frankenprey model, animal origin only, yep, you are right. If you mean a majority of the diet is meat, but the rest of it is a wide variety of different foods, then I don’t agree. And all of that doesn’t take into account feeding tripe from multiple species either. But we were talking about rotating kibbles, or not, were we not.

  • theBCnut

    And of course, you and the OP may. I personally don’t like putting up with people who take their anger issues out on me. I think it is abusive. The vet is supposed to be a professional, who was asked for a professional opinion. He should act like a professional.

  • aimee

    As there are reasons for the possible aggravation other than topic, based on the information given I’d be likely to give this vet the benefit of the doubt.

  • aimee

    If there is a pattern of not being able to discuss a particular health issue with your vet then it is time to reevaluate the relationship. If the vet was aggravated there could be another explanation besides topic.

  • Dori

    Sorry Roger I forgot to say that yes, forget about the Iams and add a different Fromm formula. I would just keep switching formulas until you’ve gone through all the Fromm formulas. You can then add a different brand food to her diet and rotate between all those formulas and then it will be time to go back to Fromm’s. Eventually you should be able to go back and forth between Fromm and whichever other brand you pick that she does well with.

  • Dori

    One of the problems is that they actually do think they know everything, especially most think they know more than the animal’s owner. The other issue imo is that they are not going to admit they don’t know everything. But I agree with you. It would make things so much simpler if they just admitted it and steered you to someone that does have more knowledgeable answers. No one expects anyone to know everything.

  • Dori

    In my opinion I would eliminate the Iams completely. If your dog does well on Fromms then I would keep her on that food without mixing any other food with it. The reason that many have with diarrhea and changing foods is because typically the dog has been on one particular food for a long time and is not accustomed to new ingredients. Transition from one food to another should be done extremely slowly each and every time you transition to another food. Eventually you can then feed a rotation diet without any issues whatsoever. The benefits to feeding more than one diet is that it makes for a healthier gut. A healthier gut makes for a healthier immune system. 70% of the immune system is in the gut. Feeding a rotational diet also exposes a dog to many different proteins and ingredients from different foods making for a much more complete and balanced diet over the long run. Also, if their is a recall in a food you are feeding you can very quickly start a different food without any digestive issues. The reason I prefer to not mix foods together is that if you have a sudden health issue or intolerance it will take you longer to figure out which food it was. I feed my three dogs a rotational diet. I started this approx. almost three years now. I rotate them at this point with every meal. If there is an issue with a food, they won’t have eaten very much of it. The health of my dogs has improved beyond belief on grain free rotational feeding. I also don’t feed foods that contain soy, corn, white potatoes, any sort of rice and no poultry. Most recalls of foods typically have been poultry based foods. Not always but enough not it makes me uncomfortable. As I said, this is just my opinion and experiences for dogs and diets. Others have their own opinions. Some agree with mine and others will feed a kibble food and add as a topper either a little of a canned food or a dehydrated food. Just to get some wet food into them which helps with digestion and hydration. I feed commercial raw diets so I don’t have the hydration issues.

  • Dori

    Your animals vet should not get aggravated with you because you bring up a particular subject. He may not agree with the pet owner or the question but there is no reason for being so aggravated with a client that he can actually feel it. For that reason alone I personally would seek out a new vet. He could have explained his feelings on the subject without outwardly showing signs of aggravation. We are entitled to ask questions of our vets and our own doctors without sensing annoyance from the other side.

  • Roger Neal

    Well I like my vet but I do think that Bailey’s coat looks better since she has been eating the Fromm’s. But I don’t want her to get diarrhea by switching her food all around and it seems like some of these posts say that has happened to them. Why is it
    not a good idea to blend two foods? Should I eleminate the Iams and do another variety of the Fromm’s she eats the duck/pheasant variety now.

  • theBCnut

    I agree with you 100%, so why do they act like they know everything they need to know about nutrition and get “aggravated” when someone has questions, instead of just saying they don’t know and pointing people to someone who does for help.

  • Dori

    Exactly aimee. Vets are not nutritionists nor are they cardiologists or surgeons or dermatologists or allergists or any other area of specialty. They are, as you say, generalists. For ourselves we typically have a GP as our primary doctor and then specialists for other areas that may ail us. No one GP or general vet can possibly have the time in their schedules to also keep current in every area of medicine. It’s also not feasible to expect them to nor should we.

  • theBCnut

    “He kinda seemed aggravated I brought up the foods” That alone is reason for a new vet.

  • aimee

    Some vet schools post their curriculum on line. There are significant differences between schools. A typical pattern is that either the vet students take ~ 3 credit hours in general nutrition during vet school or before they are admitted. Then choose ~1-2 credit hour courses in different species. So say 1 credit hour in exotics nutrition or 2 credit hours in “farm” animal.

    There are 7 vets at the practice I go to and I asked 5 about their nutrition classes and they fell into that pattern. Only one of the 5 had ever seen a rep from a food company on campus and that 1 said that the profs were in attendance and after the rep left as a group the students an prof critiqued what the rep said.

    That said is it enough to say that vets are nutritionists? No … just as I wouldn’t say vets are cardiologists or surgeons or dentists or dermatologists…. they are generalists.

  • aimee

    I’d disagree… I wouldn’t say he needs a new vet based on that one piece of feeding advice. Nor based on that one statement could I say that his vet needs a better education.

    Does diet rotation food make for a healthier gut?? Can’t say I’ve seen any research to support that. How are you measuring health?

    If you use a diverse microbiotome as a measure of gut health and the diet is “complex” as many kibbles are you may well achieve your goal without rotation.

    If you feed primarily animal tissue, meat and organs and rotate among species fed I don’t think you’d achieve that goal.

  • Dori

    I agree with you on not getting nutritional info from vets. They are not nutritionists. The reason for my posting to you is that since your dog as severe allergies you might not want to try the chicken formula. One of my dogs has severe allergies and intolerances. I feed a rotational diet within many brands but I stay away from grains and all poultry or should I say all fowl. Poultry is pretty high on the allergen scale. Just wanted to mention this as you said you’re going to start introducing the chicken into your dogs diet. : )

  • Dori

    Veterinarians are not nutritionists. At most, they may have taken an hour or two class in vet school. Depending on how long ago that was they are working with very old information if they even remember any of it. They are trained in the medical field, not the field of nutrition. I would suggest that you either change vets who has more updated information on nutrition or spend a lot of time of DFA familiarizing yourself with a more species appropriate way of feeding your dog. There are also many articles on canine nutrition on line. Dr. Karen Becker from Healthy Pets has got quite a few articles on the subject on her web site, also on Mercola’s website and on Youtube. Iams is a food that I would immediate drop from her meals. Also as BC stated, it is well known that 70% of the immune system is in the gut. Find a food that Bailey does well on, then start looking for another food, and another, and another. You should have 3 or 4 foods that Bailey does well on and rotate with every bag. I would not bother to get into nutrition with your vet, you’re only going to get his “party line” answer. Some vets have the mental as some old doctors still have that they are the be all and end all of knowledge and we must follow whatever they say. They do not like to be questioned. In the internet age that we now live in it is very easy to look up info, ask questions, and read first hand experiences from other animal owners. We no longer have to follow doctors blindly. They don’t like that. They have super duper big egos.

  • Leopotato

    Orijen could be too rich for Bailey. After the first 8 weeks of life being on GMO corn gluten Iams, my lab gets the runs from Orijen. See my post above. My natural dog food store recommended Fromm after a health issue.

  • Leopotato

    I have a chocolate lab who started out his life on Iams. First thing I did was try to very slowly change him to Orijen as my older dog was on that. As slowly as I did it he got the runs. He ended up on Hills to settle his system and then he did well on Acana. At 1 1/2 years he ate some toilet paper and after that disaster he was unable to eat the Acana without throwing up. Fromm fish and potato saved him. He ate that straight for a couple of months and we are about to try the Fromm chicken. Harry has severe allergies from starting life on Iams. Danger Kitty, if your dog has a grain allergy, you can’t just change brands and still feed grain. It might be an allergy to something other than grain too. Allergic reactions are far more immediate than one month. My daughters mastiff was allergic to wild pacific salmon. She was allergic to so many things that she was on meds on and off for most of her life. Symptoms started hours after ingestion. Your post is simply not fair. Also, just as your doctor is the last person you should be getting nutritional advice from, your vet is just as clueless. The brands they sell contain GMO corn gluten as one of the main proteins, just like the cheap brands.

  • theBCnut

    Your vet needs to get a better education. About 70% of the immune system is in the gut. And feeding variety is what keeps the gut healthy and the probiotics in the gut strong and varied. A dog that is fed only only thing is a dog that can tolerate only only one thing, that is not healthy. Would you ever consider feeding yourself nothing but a fortified cereal bar for every meal? No, you wouldn’t. But that’s what Iams is. Can you imagine what would happen if you did? The first time you ate anything different, you would get raging diarrhea. But that’s what dog food companies and vets who believe the line of bull they have been fed are recommending. That’s not good science, it’s marketing. You need a new vet.

  • Roger Neal

    Thanks she seems to like the Fromm I still mix it with the Iams. My vet said Iams is still good and they have done much of the research for pet nutrition. He seemed kinda aggravated I brought up the foods and that I should be feeding Bailey something better. He also said not to be rotating foods. So I ended up mixing the two and stuck with that.

  • Andrea Utsava Erhart

    I would not pay so much attention to the star system. It takes certain things into consideration which may not always reflect on the quality of food. Fromm is way superior than Orijen in many ways including quality control.

  • Andrea Utsava Erhart

    Every dog can have an intolerance to any food, any brand, have you ever tried Fromm grain free? Often grains can cause skin issues. I would not give up on Fromm being manufactured in their human grade facility with human grade ingredients USDA inspected with vitamins from Europe and absolutely nothing from china. They do more quality control than many other companies. I personally feed some Fromm but mostly Farmina.

  • Betsy Greer

    Exactly. I have a dog that ends up with gas, loose stool and an ear infection when he eats Orijen. Does that make Orijen a bad food? Not at all. Does it make Orijen wrong for my dog? Yep.

  • Jeremy

    If you feed your dog and it starts having issues after a few days, you should probably have changed to something else after you noticed the negative effects instead of letting it get worse over the course of a month. Fromm is a great food and a company that you can actually trust, they’re on the sixth generation of the same family owning the company and also the facility where they make it. Not many other food companies can say that, or can say that they’ve never had a recall either. It may not have worked for your dog, but it’s still a quality food for animals that don’t have the same sensitivities that your dog has.

  • Dori

    You may have already been told this in other posts, but cottage cheese does not solve the calcium issue in a home made raw diet. You have to balance phos to calcium ratio.

  • Dori

    If you’re going to feed dry then Nature’s Logic Sardine formula is a great food and a great protein for dogs that are itchy. No grains, no synthetic anything. Give it a try. It’s sometimes a little difficult to find but you can always have your local store order it in for you if they don’t already carry the Sardine formula. Good Luck

  • Dori

    Instead of putting the food in the dumpster because it did not agree with your dog, it would have been lovely if you had dropped it off at a local shelter. They take all dog food donations even if the bag is open and they are always desperate for dog food. That’s what most of us on this site do as we go through the trial and error phase with new brands that we try.

  • LabsRawesome

    You should really do some research, before you post totally wrong information.

  • LabsRawesome

    Just because a food doesn’t work for your dog, doesn’t make it crap. Fromm is a very good company. Your post is nonsense.

  • LabsRawesome

    Hi Sue, yes you can. It is great for any dog. It is highly recommended for dogs with IBS. Give it a try, and let me know what you think. 🙂

  • losul

    Danger Kitty, In regards to homemade dog food, while cottage cheese can make a good addition sometimes for dogs that can tolerate some lactose, it by NO means solves the calcium needs and proper calcium to phosphorus ratio for a dog, not even close. Cottage cheese does have higher calcium levels than most other protein sources, but it still has a deficit of calcium to phosphorus, having nearly twice as much P as Ca. Meats/organs (except green tripe, which has a balanced ratio) have as much as 20X as much P vs Ca. Dogs need calcium levels at least equal to phosphorus levels, or very serious problems can ensue.

    In a homemade diet that does not include adequate bone, calcium MUST be supplemented. I would strongly suggest reading the links provided by SP in the reply below.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Hi Danger Kitty-If your dog has grain allergies be sure to not feed her a food with any type of grain. Allergies can worsen with each exposure. Many dogs eat Fromm foods and have no issues-same as any brand, not all foods work for all dogs. I have fed Fromm and while not “blow away” by the results, I can’t say it was problematic for the most part.

  • Daniel

    …just because your dog did not do well on it, does not make the brand inferior. Fromm is far from “crap.” Your post is ridiculous.

  • sue66b

    Hi LabsRawsome, can you just buy Calcium Montmorillionite Clay & add to their meals..

  • sue66b

    Hi Danger Kitty, Patch can’t have kibbles with Potatos or sweet potatos, he starts to get his itchy skin & itchy ears, Potatos are high in carbs, dogs with sensitive skin need a low carb diet, “Holistic Select” Anchovy,Salmon & Sardine meal is excellent for itchy skin..also foods high in omega 3 is excellent, Good-Luck

  • Danger Kitty

    Cottage cheese is a great addition to homemade dog food and It solves the calcium issue.

  • Danger Kitty

    I don’t mean to rain on the Fromm parade but I have had my pitbull dog on the duck and sweet potato formula kibble for nearly one month and it has caused her severe allergic reaction and massive hair loss. She has uncontrollable analysis itching and skin inflammation, sinus issues and frequent bowel issues that started with in a few days of feeding her this product. She has started eating grass again and 4 days ago stopped eating altogether, so I switched over to a new organic food 2 days ago and she is already starting to improve. It may be a mild grain allergy which she tends to get occasionally in over processed food and when it contains chemicals but I have never seen this extreme allergy ever in a dog. This food is not the quality of a four or five star brand. Being in the rescue community it I work with hundreds of dogs and shelters and trainers and many other people have indicated that Fromm is not worth the price and only gives their dogs medical problems. Stay away from this product!

  • William Low

    Try the taste test! You can get samples, almost anywhere. Try a hand full of 2-3 differnt types. Watch what goes first! Thatll tell you, what your best friend likes. Then from there, read advices.

  • Britt

    Switched my golden retriever to Fromm several months ago (when she turned 1yr). The person we got her from had her on Pedigree. The whole time she was on the Pedigree, she had red, itchy, inflamed ears more than once per week. I assumed it was because goldens tend to have ear problems. When she reached the 1 year mark, we switched her to the adult large breed Fromm. Within about 2 weeks, her ears cleared up and she hasn’t had any problems with them since starting the Fromm. I definitely recommend Fromm.m

  • LabsRawesome

    Hi Mayskeye, look into Montmorillionite Clay, for your dogs colitis.

  • Mayskeye

    I feed my pit mix a variety of dry food flavors from fromm and it has been the only dry food that controls her colitis and that she also loves the flavor of. I have tried numerous expensive brands because she has a weaker immune system and reoccurring colitis and I have had her on this brand for the past year with zero problems. She looks very healthy and has a gorgeous coat. I highly recommend this line of dog food!

  • SP

    Hi there.
    Don’t know if you know, but you need to add calcium to the meal.
    You cannot just feed them meat or there will be a calcium-phosphorus imbalance which will have long-term consequences.

  • Britt

    Fromms four star dry foods are great. You can have food rotation without the waiting period in between because the food is very similar. I feed my girl the chicken a la veg in the summer, pork and applesauce in fall and the whitefish in the winter for her coat.

  • Cyndi

    Yahoo finally did something right! I was in the same boat as you Roger, before I found this site a year ago. As I was told, almost a year ago, “It’s ok, you’re here now.” 😉


  • Crazy4cats

    Don’t feel bad. Most people that come to this site have done the same. That’s what we were taught. And BTW, Iams is not by any means the worse food you could be feeding. Good luck.

  • Roger Neal

    Well it was just by chance I read an article on Yahoo news about dog food or I would never have given it a second thought. I was thinking I was buying one of the best brands and doing right by consistently feeding the same thing every day. She seemed to like her food but I often thought as I was fixing it, How mundane to eat the same thing every day. Thanks everyone.

  • dchassett

    Keep in mind that vets are not nutritionists. Some will just steer you in the direction of what they sell. Not necessarily for any reason other than that their training is in medicine not nutrition. Most of us didn’t know better than to initially feed our dogs what was marketed the most and that’s what we fed day in day, year in year out not giving it a second thought. That was also what vets used to suggest. Now we know better and with Mike’s Dogfoodadvisor there is so much help in getting it right and no longer an excuse for getting it wrong. We all want to do the best for our furry friends. The frightening recalls of 2007 and still continue to this day has prompted us to wake up and see that there is a much better way. It also led entry to quality dog foods, an area that was sorely lacking in the canine food industry and has prompted us to read ingredients and research where they source their ingredients. We’re never too old to learn and, in fact, never should. Especially when it comes to nutrition be it for ourself or our fur babies.

  • Well you’re not alone. I previously fed some not so great foods and didn’t know better including Gravy Train and Beneful and Moist & Meaty and bought the 2 lb bags of Pupperoni -gag!

  • Roger Neal

    Thanks, after reading some of these posts, I feel bad about how I have fed Bailey. The vets office told me Iams when I got her and I fed her the same thing all along because I thought if I changed it up her stomach would get upset. Ugh, they should have told me better.

  • Hi Roger,

    Be sure to read the articles I linked to below (and are above in the review.

    Fromm is a great food and from a great company. It is perfectly fine to feed Fromm even though it is not 5 stars. Some dogs need to start with a 3-4 star food especially if the dog has been eating one food for a very long time. Some dogs will have problems adjusting to “better” foods and different ingredients for a number of reasons. Giving probiotics and digestive enzymes will help the transition process and having canned pure pumpkin or ground psyllium for stool issues is a good idea. Also you can take as long as your dog needs to transition, whether he can do it over 1 week or if it takes him over a month. Just increase the amount of new food if his output is normal. A dog food is only 5 stars if your dog actually does well on it! Some dogs don’t do well on some of the better foods, so it doesn’t really matter that it was a 5 star food. For instance, half of my fosters had GI issues on 2 five star foods. I had to bring it down to a 4 star level for them to get better (a mix of 5 and 3.5 star foods). For a long time, well actually I still do it, I have a mixture of food. Brand A, B and C mixed together. For instance, sometimes I mix a 25% protein food with one that is over 35% to get something in the middle. Now my dogs have worked up to a high protein diet (raw food) with no problems and they still eat various kibbles and canned foods, dehydrated, freeze dried foods. Of course, the fosters I keep around 4-4.5 stars level.

    Also I would find a couple to several foods your dog does well on and have a rotational diet.

    Benefits of Rotational Feeding:

  • Roger Neal

    I’m confused I read that the Iams that I was feeding Bailey wasn’t a good dog food so I went to specialty store and asked for the best and they told me
    Fromm but now I see it only has 4 stars and some of the others have five. Should I take this back and get the Origen?

  • amcken3

    I don’t understand adding all the starch why the rice and barley etc. since when is that a “natural” diet for a canine? Why not barley GREENS. I buy FRAMMs so this disturbs me….better look at the ingredients of the flavors I usually get him I guess!

  • Emily Grace

    Thank you:)
    I actually give them freeze dried treats daily and green tripe a couple times a week, I also make them eggs with veggies for breakfast on weekends and smoothie pops and give them pumpkin pops every day with fish oil and my bff usually makes them food when she comes over so I guess they are alright! lol!

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Emily –

    That sounds like a pretty good rotation you have going! 🙂

    You can never have too much variety though – so feel free to try even more brands if you want. Adding healthy “toppers” to the kibble like canned food, fresh food (eggs, sardines, leftover meat, yogurt, etc.), raw food or dehdyrated food helps to diversify things as well as increase the species-appropriateness of the dry food.

  • Emily Grace

    I feed my dogs Fromm duck & sweet potato, grain free game bird, pork & applesauce, grain free surf & turf and salmon a la veg. I also feed them Halo salmon and halo lamb. I also feed them Go! duck and Now fresh. I switch them up so my pups don’t get bored, is that enough rotation or is there an actual method I should follow that would be better for my dogs? I have never heard of diet rotation and did not know that is better for the dogs health so any info would be great!

  • InkedMarie

    You realize this conversation is three months old, right?

  • InkedMarie

    No, I’m not. Why are you asking?

  • HuskyACD

    Are you a veterinarian?

  • Wouldn’t you like to know

    TEST post for two Rhodesians

  • Paula FeDash

    You are right, Change it regularly They do like different meals just like we do. It is very easy. Create your own recipes.

  • Pattyvaughn

    There are a lot of recipes on line that are not so great so make sure that you change up recipes often enough that you are balancing over time or really check in to making sure you are using a good one.

  • Paula FeDash

    I make my dogs food from all organic meats, veggies, fruits, grains, why take a chance on feeding them something that might make them sick, kill them. There are great recipes on line. Do not feed them store bought food of any kind.

  • Colleen

    Hi Karen,
    I understand your concerns and sympathize. Please email me ([email protected]) privately so I can recommend a food that has helped my dog immensely.

  • Pattyvaughn

    She asked a question then got mad when it was answered in a way she didn’t like. How is that rude? Maybe you should have read back further before you assume you know what is going on.

  • Onthefence

    He wasn’t being rude… the rest of you were.

  • Allie

    I started to mix Salmon A La Veg with the Chicken and now Ziggy wants to eat it – will let you know how it goes.

  • Cindy

    It surprises me that Fromm would cause these issues, as this food never had any issues ever. However, I would not feed my dog Chicken A La Veg straight for 1 month. Even Fromm states on their website that you are supposed to rotate the flavors, in fact I have several brands and protein types I use and rotate daily. The fact that the dogs were fine with it for 1 month and then show issues tells me that they need more rotation and the food itself might be fine, but perhaps not fine for a long time. I would switch over with their duck, Fish etc. or even try other brands, such as Annaemat, Horizon, Health Extension or even rotate with some raw foods, for instance Ziwipeak dried or fresh raw such as primal for instance. I would not give only dry food. Also mixing it with some canned food (not much to start with) might help. Also dogs get tired of eating always the same, my dogs don’t eat this flavor, they prefer the grain free versions, but the kibble sizes are smaller. Also there are other brands which have stronger flavor, such as Acana or Health Extension. My dogs would not eat the Chicken either.

  • DMW

    @ Allie – Recently switched my dogs over to Chicken A La Veg due to the Innova recall. Now, about a month after the switch over, one of my dogs doesn’t want to eat it. I found some loose stools during yard clean up for a couple of days last week. Then this Sat, two of my dogs have started throwing up a few hours after eating. Not positive it’s the food but thought I’d mention it since we are feeding the same.

  • Pattyvaughn

    CA was just recalled again. And almost all foods within a brand use the same vitamin/mineral premix so rotating to a couple different brands is recommended.

  • Fell

    So what about California Naturals’s diet formulated especially for rotation? Does that count as rotation or does it have to be an entirely different brand?

  • Allie

    I have been feeding Fromm Chicken A La Veg for a few months; now my Ziggy does not like it and has diarrhea – the vet added Hills W/D to the Fromm and his fine but I think there is something wrong and I will have to switch to another food.

  • KarenC

    I am dosing based on this advice (given to me in a previous post). I chose to keep my dogs on the 50-70lb end of the spectrum at 1tsp because one is barely 50lbs and the other is a little sickly right now.

    Hi Karen!

    Make sure you use the Food Grade DE for your dogs. You can use it for cats too! The dosage is on the Earthworks website that’s been posted, but is as follows:

    Large Cats: 1 teaspoon
    Kittens :1/4 teaspoon
    Dogs 100 lbs + : 1-2 tablespoons
    Dogs 50-100lbs: 1 tablespoon
    Dogs Under 50 lbs: 1 teaspoon
    Mini dogs: 1/2 teaspoon

  • Pattyvaughn

    Um, a tablespoon is 3 times as much as a teaspoon, you might want to adjust doses a little more. It’s hard to say without knowing exact weights, but something to think about.

  • Cyndi

    Maybe try cutting down what you’re giving her by half, or even give it to her every other day instead of every day. I did google it and found that some people that take it get a bit constipated for a bit, so it’s not unheard of. Or you could stop giving it to her all together until she starts going normal and then cut her dose in half or do the every other day. Maybe her system is just a bit more “delicate” than the others. Good Luck! 🙂

  • KarenC

    All of the other dogs are doing great on it. In fact, it firmed up the pudding poo on one of my fosters. Nothing else has changed. She’s the only one having any trouble. All of my dogs are between 50-100lbs. Everyone 70+ gets a level tablespoon. 50-70 gets a teaspoon. It’s not terribly horrible, but she strains to poo and it comes out like rocks. Could be something is just getting cleaned out of her, but the straining is bothering her.

  • Cyndi

    Hi Karen, I’m sorry to hear that. I’m not sure why that is. My dog never had a problem with it. Are you giving them too much? Even then, I don’t think it would cause any problems. I’ll try googling it and see if I come up with anything… Could it be anything else causing it?

  • KarenC

    Thank you. Just one dog of 9 seems to be having trouble. I’m surprised because she is the one with the best overall health and her poo is always right on. For her to have ANY issue is odd.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Stop feeding it for a few days, feed something high fiber, when you start feeding DE again use about half as much and see how your dogs do before you increase it.

  • KarenC

    Sorry to dig this old thread up, but I have a question about the DE. I’ve been giving it to my dogs for a week and one of them is now constipated. Advice?

  • Cyndi

    When people take DE, if that’s what you guys are talking about still, it’s not like you’re taking it to “deworm” yourself! DE has many health benefits, according to the website, because it’s made up of silica, which our body needs anyways. I didn’t start taking it to “deworm” myself, I started taking it because it says it’s good for joints, and lowers blood pressure, and good for hair and nails, among other things. I used to wake up EVERY single night, like every hour on the hour because of my hips and the pain I was in. I’ve been taking DE every day since the beginning of April, and I no longer wake up every night. Coincedance? There have been other things that it has helped for me too, including lowering my blood pressure. & just so you know, when I started taking it, I didn’t need to be close to a bathroom. It’s not a “colon cleanse” product. It’s more like a detox thing where it gets more crap out of your body. (pun intended) but I never had to run to the bathroom. I don’t see anything wrong with taking it, it’s helping me. Others can have their own opinions on it, & believe me, I read up on it A LOT before I started taking it. I never once read anything negative about it. It’s helping me, that’s all I know. I don’t know why, but it is, and I’ll continue to take it. You only live once and if smoking almost 2 packs a day for 31 years didn’t kill me, I doubt this will!

  • Betsy Greer

    Hmm, maybe I should rethink this. I believe I may have systemic candida, but also have IBS for sure.

  • Betsy Greer

    Uh oh! Thanks for the heads up.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Colon cleanse ads alway have reports of all the things that people have found, but from the pictures that always accompany those, I assumed that they were destroying the mucosal lining of their gut. They never actually looked like worms to me. I like to keep the lining of my gut right where it is, thank you.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I know many aren’t visible, but I read so many stories of people saying they found worms. I guess I was expecting a 10 foot tapeworm to come out or something lol

  • Hound Dog Mom

    For most human “parasite cleanses” I would recommend being in close proximity to a bathroom at all times.

  • Pattyvaughn

    It can give you cramps depending on what you use and how your body responds to it.

  • Pattyvaughn

    It’s rare to find anything when you worm a dog too. The wormers damage the worms protective coating in the process of killing them and they get digested. If there is a really huge load of round worms then you will see some, but that’s about it.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I “wormed” myself a few months back. I really started thinking about it and was like you know what I’ve worked at a shelter for years and come into contact with god knows what and I definitely don’t wear rubber gloves as much as I should…if anyone out there has worms it’s probably me. I took Wysong’s Colex (contains a lot of anti-parasitic ingredients like black walnut and ginger, in addition to fiber, enzymes and probiotics) and drank a glass of water with 1 tbs. de morning and night for two weeks. Didn’t find anything is anyone is curious lol

  • Betsy Greer

    Thanks for sharing your personal experience, Cyndi. I am planning to try it for many of the same reasons you started using it. Heck, I’ve tried everything from traditional Western medicine to acupuncture. Who knows it it might help!

  • Betsy Greer

    Nope Patty. I know you said it was a rhetorical question, but nope I’ve never been wormed! LOL!

    I did read some of the purported health benefits for human and think I might give it a shot. I am my own best guinea pig. Can’t hurt right? Or maybe it can. We’ll see!

  • Betsy Greer

    Thanks Shawna! I’m definitely going to skip treating the yard. I just put in a big perennial butterfly garden last fall and want to create a hospitable environment for my winged friends.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Don’t make that mistake with Australian Shepherds. They are an American breed too.

  • Cyndi

    I stand corrected! Lol! Thanks Patty! I know pits are American though! Only cuz it’s in their name, lol! I’m not even sure that’s what Bailey is a mix of, but that’s what they told me when I adopted her.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Border Collies are from the mountainous border region between Scotland and England.

  • Cyndi

    Oh, ok, thanks! I never heard of that. I don’t think I have to worry though, Bailey is just a good old American Border Collie/Pit bull mix (atleast I think those are American breeds, lol!)

  • Shawna

    Almost forgot — aimee had posted a link to an article from Dr. Jean Dodds. Dr. Dodds warned against feeding garlic to dogs of Japanese decent (Akitas etc) and cats. I have not heard this from any other vets and I know some that give garlic to cats but I would heed Dr. Dodds warnings as a precaution by not feeding at all or at least having blood checked after a small amount of regular consumption in Japanese dogs..

  • Cyndi

    Ok, thanks so much!

  • Shawna

    Currently I give my little guys (4 to 14 pounds) about 1/4 clove once a day three days a week during the summer and off and on or as needed during the winter.

    This website gives recommendations on using garlic and dosing from 3 different vets (Dr. Becker recommends it too but isn’t on the list). Garlic powder has benefits but fresh garlic has more and is what the vets recommend.

  • Cyndi

    We are probably gonna get warned by Dr. Mike because of the off topic (sorry Dr. Mike) but Shawna, how much garlic do you give your dogs a day?

  • Shawna

    Hi Crazy4cats,

    Thank you 🙂

    ALL of my dogs got giardia from a foster dog.. I gave them a high quality probiotic and some raw garlic. In two days they were symptom free. “The results presented in this paper support the growing amount of evidence for the antigiardial activity present in garlic.”

    If you are uncomfortable with garlic, I saw this really cool alternative treatment recommended by Dr. Jean Hofve using digestive enzymes on an empty stomach..

  • Crazy4cats

    I know we got way off subject of Fromm dog food here, but I’m wondering what you think is the best remedy for Giardia? Thanks for your other info as well.

  • Shawna

    Yeah, that wouldn’t be pretty for sure!!!! 🙂 Because of Audrey’s kidney disease I don’t have an option but to use alternative methods… 🙁

  • KarenC

    I’d LOVE to at least lessen the quantity and frequency of Frontline. It’s expensive, but unfortunately the better of the products available that actually work. Could you imagine a flea outbreak in a house with 9 dogs? Sheesh!

  • Shawna

    DE is quite affective when used on the dogs.. My dogs don’t really get fleas EXCEPT Peanut who is my Pom that spends A LOT of time outside and is the least healthy of my crew. She got fleas the end of last summer. Gizmo and one of the other eight dogs had a few while the other five didn’t show any signs (inclduing a dead give away – flea dirt).
    I used DE on all three dogs by working it into their coats in the areas I saw flea dirt. The two healthier ones only required one application. Peanut required three but then was flea free. I also fed them garlic which fleas don’t like as a backup treatment.

    Toxed2Loss at the website has an excellent flea protocol using only natural AND healthy products (mint soap etc).. Worth checking out if you ever want to stop the Frontline. Also, it is believed that fleas build up a tolerance and products canb become less effective over time. Nice to have a backup plan in case that happens.. You can also use the natural protocol but keep the frontline on hand just in case :)..

  • Cyndi

    & to finish answering your questions, Betsy, I started taking it because it’s supposed to lower blood pressure naturally, which I have, it’s supposed to help your joints, which I have bad hips and it has helped. It’s supposed to detoxify your body, which it has (I won’t go into details about that but I was shocked!) It’s also good for your hair & nails, which I have seen a drastic improvement. I could go on, but you can read the info on the website for yourself. I figured I had nothing to lose by trying it, and I did, and I am not sorry.
    I take a tablespoon and a half a day by mixing it in OJ. It doesn’t mix well, so you have to keep stirring it. & it doesn’t change the taste much, so it’s not bad at all.

  • Shawna

    Morning Betsy,
    I didn’t read through all the posts so this may have been answered already?? Sorry if it is a duplicate.
    DE in the yard will kill ALL insects that come in contact with it including earth worms and other beneficial bugs. It is indiscriminate..
    Gordon and I had a discussion about DE before he left the site way back when.. We both feel that it only has minimal effectiveness against internal worms.. Reason —- when used on the lawn it is recommended to reapply after a rain or watering the lawn. I’m sure this washes it away but may make it clump as well. It is definitely going to get wet in the digestive tract. To this day I haven’t found any really solid data on it being used internally for worms. It is a power packed source of minerals and possibly some vitamins and MAY (not sure) chelate toxins like clays??
    I would, and do, give it to my dogs internally but I don’t rely on it as the sole method (it doesn’t kill tapeworms effectively because it doesn’t come in contact with every segment (and the head) of the tapeworm. Raw ground pumpkin seeds is better for tapeworms (and others) as there is an enzyme (so must be raw) in the seed that paralyzes worms.
    Other spices like clove, cinnamon and ginger are effective too. Ginger was found, in vitro, to have 100% kill rate in about 4 hours of the heartworm worm. Garlic also had 100% kill rate but took longer. I wonder if coconut oil might be an effective dewormer too??

  • Cyndi

    I started taking it because of all the good reviews I read about it. It is supposed to have MANY health benefits. Read this

  • Cyndi

    You’re very welcome Karen. I won’t use any topical flea stuff anymore since doing all my research on that stuff. I use the DE directly on my dog. This is my first year for doing it and Bailey is outside a lot! So far so good, but it is still early yet. It will dry out her skin a bit, but I’d much rather her have dry skin for a few days than have fleas! So I’ve been dusting her with it really good like every 2 weeks.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Hi Betsy
    The problem with putting it in a spreader is that it is a really fine powder. It flows out quickly if your spreader doesn’t have a setting for powders(many do, some don’t) and you should be very careful to not inhale it, so you should wear a mask while you are speading.
    As for why people take it, I’ll ask a personal question for which I DO NOT want an answer. Has your doctor ever wormed you? We don’t have as many opportunities to pick up parasites as people living in third world countries do, but I know my kids have eaten dirt and I’m sure that as a child I did too. So I must have some parasites in me. Forty-eight years and never wormed once seems like a long time for something to develope.

  • KarenC

    THANK YOU! And thanks for the dosing info below. I try to be as chemical free as possible. Flea treatments using chemicals on the dogs AND on the lawn is too much for me. So, I treat the lawn with DE and wait as long as possible treating the dogs with Frontline. Here in Oklahoma, fleas are inevitable. As well as heartworms. So, we just spread it out as much as possible.

  • Betsy Greer

    Hey guys! I’ve been really curious about DE for a while now, too. Is there an ongoing conversation on the forum? I looked, but couldn’t find it. I’m reduced to posting on my phone currently, which is a PIA.

    Regardless, I too am curious about treating my yard with it as well (although i dont have a big flea problem) and wondered if I could just dump it in my spreader and put it down like fertilizer. Is it hazardous to any other beneficial insects?

    Also, Cyndi, I’m really curious (if it’s not too personal a question) for what reason do you take it yourself daily and what is the human dose and how do you ingest it?

  • Cyndi

    You should check out the website too & look under “Human Use” as well, it’s supposed to help a whole bunch of different things. My dog and I have been taking it and using it since the beginning of April. When I first heard about it, I thought it sounded too good to be true, but there is sure alot of great reviews out there for it.

  • Cyndi

    Make sure you use the Food Grade DE for your dogs. You can use it for cats too! The dosage is on the Earthworks website that’s been posted, but is as follows:

    Large Cats: 1 teaspoon
    Kittens :1/4 teaspoon
    Dogs 100 lbs + : 1-2 tablespoons
    Dogs 50-100lbs: 1 tablespoon
    Dogs Under 50 lbs: 1 teaspoon
    Mini dogs: 1/2 teaspoon

  • KarenC

    Hi Cyndi. I treat my lawn with DE for fleas and have heard it works for internal parasites as well but can never find an appropriate dosing recommendation. How do you dose it for your dogs? How many teaspoons/tablespoons/etc per lb/10lbs?

  • Pattyvaughn

    Me too.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I had one of those sensitive dogs, I say had because committing to diet rotation actually cured her of it, which I consider to be proof that her gut was unhealthy. She now eats completely different foods at every meal and she never gets upset stomach issues.
    This site was meant to be educational. If you don’t want to learn anything that is your business, but that will not stop us from trying to educate others. You don’t have to read.

  • Cyndi

    Yes, thanks Patty! I was going to say that but forgot. I ramble sometimes and forget some points I want to make.

  • Pattyvaughn

    The big thing with using DE is mixing it in something wet. It is very easy to inhale and will cause damage to the lungs.

  • InkedMarie

    You may have ended your part of the discussion, some of us may not have. I;m just pointing out that I’m not surprised your vet has no problems with your diet. Vets get very very little education in nutrition so you saying that doesn’t really mean much. Variety is very important to a dogs diet. How about you cut the rudeness and do some research?

  • Cyndi

    Sandy said what I would have said. (thanks Sandy!) Also, the DE is good for other things too! There is alot of info out there on it, but I dust Bailey’s coat with it for fleas, it also works for ants. I had a bunch of ants coming in the other day in my kitchen. I put a bunch of DE down on the floor, where the ants were coming in and on top of them, and within a few hours they were gone. Not sure if they were dead (I would imagine they were) but, they were gone. & you don’t have to worry about pets getting into it when you put it on the floor for pests. I also take DE in the morning. I mix it with OJ. It’s good for all sorts of things. It’s totally natural, which is a great thing, but it does so many things, I kind of thought it might be too good to be true, but so far, it does everything I’ve read it’s supposed to do. Good Luck! 🙂

  • I put it in their food when I’m giving them something wet. He can read about DE at earthworkshealth(dot)com. Do you use pumpkin or pumpkin seeds. Ground pumpkin seeds are for parasites too. I forget which ones. Maybe tapeworms. I mix a bunch of powdered stuff together. Maybe give that a try so he won’t know what’s in it! My greens powder, bee pollen, glandulars, DE, etc all mixed together.

  • Crazy4cats

    Hi Cyndi-
    Thank you for sharing your experience. It’s funny you mentioned the diatomaceous earth because I bought some a few days ago but have not tried it yet. I saw it mentioned on the forum the other day. I had never heard of it, but thought sounded interesting. I am a little nervous about it. Do you just put it in their food? I’m also hesitant about telling my husband about it. He usually feeds the dogs while I feed the cats. He’s been pretty cooperative with my rotation of dry and canned food that I have going along with the pumpkin, enzymes and probiotics I’ve had him add. I’m afraid he’ll say enough is enough! Lol! But, if this stuff works, I am all for it. I am really looking forward to being done with these awful little parasites!

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Wow, the rudeness really isn’t necessary. We were all only trying to help. This site is a great resource, it’s unfortunate not everyone wants to learn.

  • Dorrie58

    Don’t tell me my dog isn’t healthy! I happen to have a GREAT vet, and he has never had a problem with my dog’s diet. Have you EVER heard of the saying “if it isn’t broke don’t fix it”? Some dogs (like people) have more sensitive systems than others and my dog is apparently one of them. This isn’t the first dog food I gave him. This just happens to be the one that he has done the best on. You have the right to believe what you want to, but don’t try to make it sound like I am neglecting my dog or something because I don’t believe as you do. And VARIETY does not necessarily mean changing their food constantly, but adding different things to the diet once in awhile, which I do. END of discussion!

  • Pattyvaughn

    Yes, the feed one food and stick to it mantra is often spouted by vets that would rather avoid a small short term problem than treat a huge long term problem, especially if it will make your dog healthier over all for the long term. It’s also spouted by pet food manufacturers who would like you to believe that there is such thing as a perfect food and they have created it. It creates instant brand loyalty and an on going source of income for them.

  • InkedMarie

    As usual, great post!

  • Cyndi

    I’d like to share my experience with Giardia. My dog had it when I adopted her. She ended up going thru 3 rounds of metronidazole and panacur. After we got it under control, finally, I read about giving a dog raw pumpkin seeds or Diatomaceous Earth. Both of those can rid a dog of most, if not all, parasites, or worms. You can google either one of those, they are totally natural and won’t hurt your dog. I give my dog DE daily, and I also take it myself.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    BTW – sorry for rambling, diet rotation is just a topic that I feel very strongly about. Taking into consideration the fact that over 70% of a dog’s immune system resides in its gut, it becomes evident that a healthy gut is the key to a healthy immune system. One of the most important steps in fostering a healthy gut involves feeding a variety of healthy and species-appropriate foods.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Dorrie –

    Shawna made a great post. I also wanted to add that if your dog can’t switch foods than your dog isn’t healthy as you think she is – believe it or not “disastrous effects” from switching foods aren’t the norm (if my dogs shown signs of intestinal upset after trying a new food I would be very concerned about their health). When you continuously feed the same food you alter your dogs gut flora and it adjusts to only tolerating that particular food – you weaken the gut. Imagine if you ate a peanut butter sandwich for every meal for 4 years and then suddenly sat down and had a plate of spaghetti and meatballs – you might suffer some “disastrous effects” as well. Because you’ve deprived your dog of variety for so long any changes you made would have to be very gradual.

    Here’s an excerpt from an article that was featured in “Dog’s Naturally” magazine:

    “Feeding the same food day after day limits nutrition.Nutritionists urge people to eat a variety of foods,
    both for improved nutrition and also to prevent allergies. Dogs need
    variety, too. But variety can cause gastrointestinal upset in dogs,
    right? In the short run, yes. Nutritionally-deprived animals have sick guts. In fact, intestinal upset when switching foods is a sign your dog needs more variety. Once good nutrition has healed a dog’s digestive system, the dog can eat different foods every meal — just as people do. Just switch foods gradually over several weeks while your dog’s gut heals.”


    There’s a great article that was featured in the Whole Dog Journal called “A Variety of Dog Food is the Spice of Life” unfortunately it’s only available to subscribers – if you are a subscriber here’s the link: . If not some of the key points made:

    -“What rational parent would feed child only one food for years on end. Even if the food is, in fact, complete and balanced, most of us would consider such a practice unnatural, even cruel to the child…Then why does everyone think it’s okay to do this very thing to a dog?”

    -“Unfortunately, even for the best commercial dog food, there are several places along the road to the store shelf where the food’s nutritional value can go astray…We like to think of the production of food, even pet food, as a fairly scientific affair but the truth is, all pet food manufacturers make mistakes in formulation or production that result in nutrient excesses or deficiencies.”

  • Crazy4cats

    Ok. Thank you.

  • Shawna

    A lot of us rotate with great results. I have eight dogs and have fostered over 30 more. All dogs in my home get rotational diets without incident. The inability to tolerate a rotational diet is indicative of poor gut health.

    Veterinary Nutritionist Dr. Meg Smart writes
    “Variety is the Key (My conclusions after over 30 years of teaching veterinary clinical nutrition)

    Do not be afraid to add variety to your pet’s diet. Variety in the diet can include healthy table scraps (not leftovers often laden with salt and fat), homemade diets, kibble, canned, freeze-dried and dehydrated foods. Variety keeps a pet from becoming fixated on one diet with a special flavour. Variety also gives you flexibility in choosing pet foods and a selection of available foods while on vacation or when someone else is looking after your dog.”

    Dr. Karen Becker DVM writes
    “Preventing Food Allergies in Your Pet

    Rotate through three or four protein sources in your pet’s diet. It provides your cat or dog with a broad nutritional base and reduces the risk of food sensitivities by providing lots of variety.”

  • Dorrie58

    Sorry, but I disagree with you. I have tried switching foods with my dog and had almost disastrous effects from doing that. (Yes, I know how to gradually do it, and yes, I always have gone to a very good brand of food.) If you believe it is better to feed your dog different foods and it can handle it, then do so. I disagree that it is “better” somehow or my dog is bored. He loves his food. The issue at hand was if the food was safe. I was stating that I have used it, for years, safely. AND – my dog is perfectly happy and healthy. I don’t mean to be rude, but show me where it is proven to be unhealthy to feed your dog the same thing if they are doing well on it? I’ve actually heard the opposite!

  • losul

    Hello, crazy4cats.

    I’m having puter problems. Had a response nearly all prepared then computer became completely unresponsive, and then crashed. Finally got restarted and running again, started another post-same happened thing again. Frustrating as I’m a very slow typer, er pecker, lol. I suspect my HDD might be about to shoot craps again. I intend to try again as soon as I get things stabilized and have more time.

  • crazy4cats

    Hi Losul-
    I’m not Karen, but I’d like to know more about Giardia if you don’t mind. My pups, who will be two in a month, either had girardia when I got them or soon after. The are lab mix brothers. I went to a value vet clinic that diagnosed it. I just thought they had soft puppy poo. I had never even heard of Giardia before. So, I treated with metronidazole and retested. They still were positive. Another vet at the clinic prescribed both metronidazole and panacur. Restested and still positive, only none in poop just in their system. I think they were treated 4 or 5 times before they were negative. That was about 9 months ago. Ever since then their poop has been intermittently soft, but never really runny. It is starting to look suspicious to me again. A different color and smell. I’m not sure if the Giardia is back or if they have a leaky gut or damage from all the antibiotics and dewormer. They look and act healthy and their appetites are fine. Those darn pups will eat anything and everything when we are on our walks. And they are so fast at it! I have given them probiotics, digestive enzymes and pumpkin. Not sure what to do next. Hoping you might have some insight on the subject. Thank you.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Dorrie –

    I agree with Storm’s Mom. It’s a common misconception that it’s acceptable to feed a dog the same food day in and day out (I suspect a rumor started by the industry to promote brand loyalty). Variety is very important for health. My dogs eat a homemade diet and get something different at every meal. When I used to feed kibble I rotated brands after every bag and rotated canned and/or fresh food toppers daily. No food is perfect.

  • Storm’s Mom

    No dog food is perfect, and rotating around a few gives your dog a better chance of getting a more complete diet over time. Feeding the same food also increases the chance that your dog will develop an allergy to the main protein in the food. Rotating what you feed also allows you to quickly change – with little to no stomach upset – if, for example, Fromm ever does have a recall or becomes unavailable in your area. It also just simply gives your dog variety. Think of it this way, how would YOU feel if you ate the same thing, day in day out, for YEARS?!

  • Dorrie58

    Why would I do that, when he is perfectly healthy and happy with his food. He gets “treats” – healthy dog biscuits, carrots, etc. He has never gone off his food. Is there something I should know?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Dorrie58 –

    Glad to hear your dog is doing well on this food. However, three or four years is a very long time to eat the same food at every meal. Have you considered switching foods occasionally?

  • Dorrie58

    I switched to the Whitefish and Potato because my dog was not very active either and it is a relatively low-calorie food. If you are going to switch foods, do it very gradually, by mixing the two and gradually adding more of the Whitefish and Potato until you are giving your puppy all of the new food. If you don’t do it that way it could be a nightmare, especially since your dog is so young. Good luck!

  • Dorrie58

    I have been feeding my dachshund the Whitefish and Potato food for at least three or four years now and he has done wonderfully on it. Have had absolutely no problems except for his stinky breath! lol

  • Karen

    It is not giardia, we have had experience with that in the past. Dixie had whipworm and a little known lungworm called eucoleous boehmi. (She’s from KY and they believe she brought it up with her since its not something you normally find here in the frozen tundras of MN). Since Rosie’s eating issues started right around Dixie’s diagnosis I assumed she had them also. Now both dogs are parasite free and both experiencing the same eating issues and GI issues. They only thing they consistently have in common is the food they eat. I only feed Fromms and NutriSource canned and both are reputable companies, so I’m wondering what could possibly going on. They are currently eating the trash Science Diet GI food from the vet, but I want them off that and on something else asap, I’m just concerned about disrupting their systems again. They’re barely eating still though, they snack for awhile and then play and then snack again. Neither have them have ever had behavior like this before.

  • losul

    Sounds just like they had/still have giardia. Was that the parasite?

  • Jan_Mom2Cavs

    While I definitely don’t agree with your vet about the foods, Fromm (wonderful food and company) does have quite a few ingredients in their formulas. Also, I believe it is possible for a dog to develop allergies or intolerances to something it has eaten for a prolonged period of time. Chicken is also considered a high allergy inducing protein. I used Fromm for quite awhile for mine and they never had stool I considered to be totally normal. Many dogs eat Fromm and it is an excellent food, but there are other excellent foods on the market that might work better for your dogs now. It might not even be the chicken, but some other ingredient far down the list (like tomato pomace or the cheese)…idk? I would definitely consider a change, if only from grain inclusive Fromm to one of their grain frees that doesn’t contain chicken. If you want to start there, fine, but you could also check out the list of 4-5 Star rated foods on this site to start your search. Good luck!

  • Karen

    I’ve never commented it one of these forums before, but I’m at the end of my rope and need some help. I have two rescue girls (Rosie, a 2 yr old maybe beagle mix adoption date 2/11/2012 and Dixie a 2 yr old Novia Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever mix adoption date 9/20/2012) and the last 5 weeks have been a nightmare. Both dogs have been eating Fromms Chicken a la Veg since they came to live with me. When I’m at work they get a Kong stuffed with Nutrisource Lamb and Rice and canned pumpkin. About 5 weeks ago, Rosie, the most food driven dog on the planet suddenly became disinterested in food and Dixie developed diaharrea. I took Dixie to the vet and they found she had some parasites, so I treated both dogs, assuming Rosie’s disinterest in food was because she had the parasites also. 3 wks later they both tested parasite free, however, the disinterest in eating continued, so I switched to Fromm’s Whitefish and Potato to see if a new flavor would help, shortly after both developed mucousy diaharrea which then turned to bloody diaharrea. I returned to the vet and was told it was probably an allergy to the Fromm’s. My vet told me he doesn’t like Fromms, and that Purina and Iams were superior foods and that I needed to consider switching. He said Fromm’s has bad quality control because it is a small company. He then handed me a bag of Science Diet GI. CORN CORN CORN- gross. Both dogs are displaying a small allergy “flag” in their blood work and Dixie’s white blood cell count was a “tiny” bit elevated. They are playing fine and drinking fine. They are on Flagyl and it seems to have helped, but their stools are still soft and I am not open to feeding them trash food, despite my vet’s assetion that Purina and Science Diet are superior brands. Help.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Compare the ingredients list of the current food with the ingredients list of the last food. That may give you some idea of what he is reacting to. Then try other foods that don’t have the possible offender in them.

  • Fiona

    I hv feed my pom Fromm duck and sweet potato for a week. I do find that he pooes more frequently than before. Also he scraches himself more frequently too. I suspect there are some kinds of allergies. Do i need to change to other brands? My dog is a puppy of six months and not active. I am thinking about Artemis small breed puppy. Any kindly suggestions?

  • Fiona

    Hi Betty,
    My Pom. has visited two vets and the secons vet gave it Hill’s z/d too. But unluckily every morning I needed to wash his pat to clean up the poops. His allergy problems went worse. This week I stopped z/d. I gave it Fromm duck. I was so happy that he had firm poops again on the next morning.
    If it is not doing well with z/d, go and get a trial pack like me. My dog only took one day time to change.
    From Hong Kong

  • lindaaparks1

    I also agree rice to be less value than I like and right now full of arsenic!! I use the duck recipe with sweet potatoes.–many folks think rice is good, it is easier to digest , true but arsenic is bad—– and yams/sweet potatoes are far more healthy and full of fiber !!!!

  • lindaaparks1

    Hello , I have been researching pet foods for about 15 years for Bulldogs as you know are the most sensitive to ingredients ,than any other breed !!! and like you do NOT have any association to any pet foods, or get any gifts rebates, or monetary gains at all.

    <>>> I agree with you on this, Fromm uses rice , and they do list liver in 2 of their recipes too. BUT DO state that they only use Muscle meats–and not bi products(which organ meat is –) that’s why they label the liver in the 2 recipes—but FROMM is only muscle meat in the meat portion, the meal portion is including some cartladge only–no bones/bi products of course.

    also they do have a pork recipe–and Pork is the ONLY meat NOT requiring a COOL LABEL .——-hog food –a majority of ingredients come from CHINA !!!!!-that does include MELAMINE!!!—there for I do not use pork

    however Fromm is 1 of 2 companies to guarantee the probiotics in the food included in the guaranteed food analysis in writing.!! it is from a live culture as well.

    the other just recalled some food so I won’t recommend them.

  • liz

    save your receipt and if your dog does not like it fromm’s will refund your money. its guaranteed

  • monkey

    Fromm has 4 grain free formulas as well. With white potatos instead of rice, maybe you used to feed those?

  • sylvia

    so far I like the ingredients, but not white rice, or tomatoes, I don:ever give my precious pet white rice or tomatoes whem I”m cooking for her, I do”t think white rice or tomato is healthy for pets, Thanks, I just started giving her fromm but could white rice or tomato not be added. I will consult with my vet.SS

  • Shawna

    I agree with Beaglemom and Pattyvaughn.. It would actually be illegal for him to tell you that humans could eat the food — irregardless of whether they would get sick or not.
    Unless a food is manufactured in a facility that produces human food it can not legally be called human grade. So for him to make a statement that humans could eat it would likely get him, and Fromm, in real hot water..

    A better question to ask in my opinion is —- Do the meats in your food PASS USDA inspection. Foods can be inspected without passing. But if they pass inspection then they could technically be consumed by humans. At least before they are taken to the kibble manufacturer.

  • Pattyvaughn

    He answered your question as best as any human can. He would have to be God to know if something that would not make him sick would or would not make you sick. Your question was not reasonable, nor does the answer to it answer the question you really wanted to know. You should have asked if the ingredients are fit for human consumption, if that is what you wanted to know. Which has little or nothing to do with whether or not something will make you sick.

  • beaglemom

    My interpretation is that they test to be sure their products are free of contaminants (bacterial, whatever) prior to release but there’s no way to guarantee ANY food isn’t going to make someone sick somewhere since everyone’s system is different. He didnt dodge the question, just answered in a drawn out response to cover his bases.

  • DebbieM

    One thing to take thought in, is what grades of meat are they adding to their food? Dog foods have been known to use sick animals, roadkill, and parts that are not fit for human consumptionin thier foods.
    I wrote to Fromm and asked then if their food were fed to a human, would the human get sick. The man responding really dodged my question twice.
    Let me see if the mail fits in here.
    Letter 1:
    Our foods are cooked and the cooking process is actually a validated sterilization step. Thus even if we did take in meats with a high bacterial population, once cooked it is null and void. We also take an extra step here and that is all foods we make are placed on HOLD and tested before being released into the market. All of our meats, vegetables and fruits are USDA inspected and that contributes to the quality of the nutrients we are looking for as well as the safety. In 64 years we have never had or been involved in a recall. That track record proved to all we know what we are doing. Your questions ask if our ingredients could be eaten by humans and not make them sick. Well, today I question if that could be said for any food you and I consume. What I can promise you is that your pets will not get sick from eating our foods that is directly related to a bacterial contaminate in the food. If you have additional questions just e-mail me back.

    That was answer #1.He Dodged the bullet. Here comes my second response after telling him he did not answer the question I asked.

    In all fairness I cannot answer the question concerning whether or not you would get sick from consuming our dog foods. Mother Nature simply does not work that way in that some foods you eat may not agree with my body. I taste our foods everyday and it does not make me sick. But there is no way I can answer for you concerning that. Our meats and vegetables could be consumed by humans. Again telling you no one would get sick is hard to do. The news reports many cases of foods being consumed everyday that make people sick. Any time you present the body with a challenge it can’t handle it could produce problems. It is not that the food is bad, just that the food may not agree with that body. I have a set of paternal twin boys. The one resembling his mother, who eats hot sauce on everything, also eats hot sauce and has no problems. The son resembling me and myself cannot eat hot sauce without problems. There is nothing wrong with the hot sauce, except for me and my twin as we call him, we simply can’t eat it.
    We go through hundreds of steps to make sure the ingredients we use are safe. We even test every single batch of food made to make sure of that. Legally in a court of law I can provide proof of that. After this many things come into play in which I cannot control. One of these becomes what happens to the food once it reaches the home. If the food is not properly stored, problems could arise. If the food is introduced to a contaminate, that could cause problems. If the food becomes infested with closet mites, moths, or other bugs, this could become a problem. So all I can do is tell you that when the food is made, it is safe and free from any adulterant. Since it is normally not part of your everyday diet, I have no idea if your body would except it or not. Again, this has nothing to do with the products safeness.
    In 64 years we have never had to issue or been involved in a recall. While we do get complaints to where pet parents often blame the food, 99.5% of the time, science leads to the cause being something other than our food causing the problem. So I hope this helps you understand that your question simply can’t be ask this way. Please let me know if you need any additional information that would help ease your concerns. Our products are really good and safe. I have enclosed a picture of our vegetables and maybe this will help.
    On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 9:53 PM, Debbie wrote:
    Hi and thank you for responding. My question was not answered. If I ate Fromm dog food, would I get sick? The quality of the ingredients are my interest. some foods have been known to use sick or diseased meats, or parts that a human would not safely eat. I would like to be assured that this is not the case with FROMM food and that my dogs are eating healthy. So my question would be, “If I ate FROMM dog food, would I get sick?” Are your meats and vegtables safe for human consumption?
    Thank you,

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  • Pattyvaughn

    Puppy foods are formulated with more protein and a more careful balance of nutrients. Food that is formulated for puppies may be marked for growth or all life stages. I feed all my dogs ALS foods. They really are good for All Life Stages, puppy through senior.

  • Frankiesmom

    feed not teen 🙂

  • frankiesmom

    Is the four star product recommended to teen puppies? Their website says for all life cycles.

  • Sammie

    My little old Silky girl had lots of tummy upsets, but very few since I started Sweet Potato and Duck. I also feed it to my rescued foster dogs with good results for them, too.

  • Hunting with British labs

    Fromm may be more expensive but is well worth the money especially for people with hunting dogs it keeps there energy up and will help strengthen the dogs joints so when you’re in the field you’re dog will perform and be healthy and strong

  • Erika

    I bought the Salmon A La Veg for my dog and she disliked it so much that when I mixed it in with her normal food she ate around it! So, I gave the bag to my friend for her four dogs and they love it. She said she has never seen them love a food so much. Just goes to show that what works for one dog may not work for another.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Try it and see. All dogs have different taste preferences, just like people.

  • Moey

    Do small dogs like the taste of the duck and potato? I have a 9month old ShihTzu

  • Marie

    That is an interesting site. I disagree with some of their analysis, but still okay overall.

  • Moey

    Thanks Marie, I Just found a very good site that lists what the ingredients really are and then rates their nutritional value:

    Chicken Cartilage- (natural source of glucosamine) (3 stars) found in 1% of pet food products analyzed
    Gimmicky, not enough is present for therapeutic response.

    Chicken by-product (1 stars) found in 5% of pet food products analyzed
    Ground up carcasses, diseased internal organs, beaks and feet.

    chicken by-product meal (1 stars) found in 23% of pet food products analyzed
    Ground up carcasses, internal organs, beaks, feet. Concentrated.

  • Marie

    I would imagine the difference is that Fromm’s knows exactly what they’re putting in their food because they listed chicken cartilage specifically vs Iams that just puts ‘by-product meal’ which could really mean anything that isn’t meat (sure, cartilage included, but also feathers, claws or whatever)

  • Moey

    What Is the difference between Fromm’s Chicken Cartilage and Iams- chicken by-product meal (a dry rendered product of slaughterhouse waste. It’s made from what’s left of a slaughtered chicken after all the prime cuts have been removed.)

  • S York

    Oops, forgot to add that you want to avoid any poultry source and all grains. Corn and wheat are huge allergy sources. I would stay away from white rice just because it is not good for people, so surely it is not good for dogs

  • S York

    Elena, I have the same allergy issues with my German Shepherd. Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Bison has worked for him for years. He is also able to eat limited ingredient treats with Elk or Salamon. Try Healthy Bones brand. He has been on Limited Ingredient Diet for 8 years. He is now 10 and doing great.

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  • Elena Rodgen

    Have four standard Poodles in the house allergic to foul get gooshie ears -allergies-three like fromm dry pork &apple sauce with party animal wet one will not eat the pork and applesauce all i would like is to WANT TO GIVE DRY AND WET: Tried raw Intrinsict with EVO beef now they have the runs-on my white carpets GRRRRRRRRR ALL had to get kopectate. I just want to get them on a no grain, starch, soy natural food dry with wet consistancy. There are too many to go over on the grid, very confusing… need advise.

  • Daves

    Your best bet is to use a lower ash food. Ash in foods in largely minerals. Try to avoid high protein foods that have high ash. It is not the protein but the ash that goes along with it. Dr. Tim’s makes the lowest ash foods I have seen. Crystals after a UTI are common and generally don’t mean stones will form. Some breeds are predisposed and all breeds as they age. Change the water often, use multiple bowls and use large bowls. You might even try putting the water in a jug and shaking it to aerate the water.  I know some people that using cat fountains for toy breeds.

  • InkedMarie

    Yes, I had a dog that had them. I honestly can’t answer about the food; my vet knew better than to tell me to use a script food. The key to crystals and keeping them at bay is to make sure your dog gets alot of liquid. He needs to urinate! For me, what worked best was kibble mixed with canned and water to make a nice stew. I did one meal of that and did the other meal of The Honest Kitchen, which is dehydrated, you add water to it. My vet prescribed one 500mg Vitamin C for my dog and I used a cranberry pill as well. Don’t do that without asking your vet. 

  • Tracy

    Does anyone have experiece with Struvite Crystals?  My dog, almost 12, is experiencing his first UTI and the vet wanted to put him on a prescription diet, which I have refused for the time being to see if a stronger antibiotic can knock this thing out. My question is, I switched to Fromm Pork about 5 months ago, could this be the reason? I have loved this food so far because he has extremely bad allergies (been through testing, shots, steriods, pills, you name it), ever since I moved to the south 7 years ago.  This food has cut down his allergies by about 90%, it has been amazing food for his allergies and I really don’t want to switch because of that.  Thanks

  • my dog also has skin problem. what flavor of fromm did you switch to?

  • Jose

    Try MVPK9 Supplements you can find on ebay. Is the best supplement on the market and natural!!! Here the link on ebay for the Alpha Meal Program (Weight Gainer, Muscle Builder and Multivitamin)