[goldenstar]

Thank you… This is more of what I was trying to get across.
It is not just one way or the other.
But for the article of this forum thread. Dogs are not dying at an earlier age and this particular pseudo science vet is wrong and here is why. It is very convincing, very intellectual, very scientific.
But……dogs do seem to be dying younger than they used to.
I just want our loving pet family members to live a long and healthy life and that should be the goal of every type of vet.

[goldenstar]

“We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Peace.”
Yes…..😊

[goldenstar]

“Sometimes the truth hurts” No…..
See the thing is, I don’t see what the skeptvet says as always truth. But it is always a way to show that he is right.
That last article for example, just looks like he hates Dr Becker and shows the basis of his reasons.
Saying that Dr Becker is trying to scare people about dogs not living as long …well I can’t reason that one out. The data, the graphs all point to that he dislikes her and here’s why.
They both seem like very smart and passionate people trying to help pets. Why does their have to be such a divide between holistic and traditional vets. Seems to be 2 separate camps that can’t come together.
I wish they could so pets can bennifit.

[goldenstar]

Well, I had to ask. I had been curious.
“That’s ridiculous. One could say the same about the posters that post the same diatribe over and over again against science based veterinary medicine and promote homeopathic cures, raw diets, etc. Advising pet owners to disregard what their veterinarians tell them is best.”
I have to admit….That kind of sounds like something the skeptvet would say.
I am not against science based information. I am just not crazy about the skeptvet.
You have some great advice and that is appreciated. You and I will probably never agree on some things.
I would not tell people to disregard their vet’s advice. Do people here actually do that?
And the blood work is a very good idea, I do plan on doing that.
I am very sorry about your Corgi.
My dog had soft tissue sarcoma. It started out as a small growth on her leg. About a year and a half later. I had to let her go.
Yes breeding is a factor. But environmental toxins and diet has to be in the mix. I mean… Look how it affects humans.

[goldenstar]

This topic is a sore spot for me having lost my Golden last February. I do believe in science and my traditional Vet. I respect the Vets that misdiagnosed my dog’s cancer. This type of cancer can be appear like a fatty tumor. We even did a needle aspiration. I know now that a biopsy should have been done sooner. But I trusted their guidence. It really was already too late. At best if we knew sooner, it would have given her a little more time
The skeptvet is a very intelligent person who is very passionate and devotes time to help pets. I just wish that that passion would not be so angry and negative. I know people have their reasons to not trust any healer that is not traditional. I choose to believe in all healing.
Something is happening and dogs do seem to have shorter lives. I do believe there is a study going on now with Golden’s on this subject.
I came to Dog Food Advisor as one source to learn how to provide the best that I can for my new Golden. I think a lot of people do this with minds open and really want help. Then I see the link to the Skeptvet in the topic. I see it all over this forum. In so many topics. It seems more like a form of advertising. I am wondering if this person posting the skeptvet link is the skeptvet. When someone else recommends a company or product over and over in this forum, people have asked if they have a vested interest in that company. I am wondering the same.
It is knowledge, but it not the only answer. I hope new people coming here know this. The skeptvet can be so intimidating and harsh.
I wish that there was not this division between holistic and traditional medicine.

[goldenstar]

I had a Queensland Sheppard mix who passed a few years ago. But my vet put her on ZD by Science Diet. For this dog and with her problems, it was the right food. I tried many other foods and ZD was the only food she could eat. I wasn’t crazy about the ingredients, but it worked for her problems. I know that my vet was truly trying to help and he did.

[goldenstar]

I defenatly do not agree with the bashing of another vet. That’s right Dr Becker is just promoting this information to …what just lie because she likes the publicity?
I lost my Golden Retriever to Cancer right after her 9th birthday. Maybe it is just one dog and there is no scientific data available that shows definite proof that dogs are not living as long. But my dog died way before her time. I don’t really care about proof. And I am cherry picking.
Fear? Yea I was terrified when I found out that the growths on my dog that 2 different vets said they were nothing to worry about just let it grow big…nothing to worry about……was really a soft tissue sarcoma that consumed her body and she lost the function of her hind end and got really sick.
I just want dogs to live long and healthy lives. Maybe vets could learn from each other if they stopped bashing.
Instead of dismissing that dogs may not live as long, maybe ask is this really true and can we work together and find out why.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by goldenstar.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by goldenstar.

[goldenstar]

Holistic Select LBP is listed as 4 stars for medium and small breeds only not for large breed puppies.
You did the numbers yourself with the calculator and the calcium number that you got was 6.3 g per 1000 calories and that is too high.
I wanted to try Holistic Select also, but based on the numbers, I decided against it.

[goldenstar]

I think the calcium is too high.
Maybe someone else can help on this.

[goldenstar]

MomOfThor…I copied this information from pitluv’s post on page 41 about Holistic Select Large breed puppy food. I think the calcium and calcium phosphorus ratio is too high for large breed puppy food.

From pitluv’s post:
I got an email back from Holistic Select regarding the Large & Giant Breed Puppy formula. When I used the numbers they gave me and put them into the calculator tool on here this is what I got
Calcium = 6.8 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.8 to 1
WAY too high…

Unless the ingredients have changed since that post.

[goldenstar]

I have my 8 month old Golden Retriever on TOTW High Prairie Puppy food. I too think there may be better choices, but I am trying to keep her away from chicken meal. There are just a few LBP puppy foods that don’t have chicken meal. I was feeding her Orijen. She did fine for a while and then she would not tolerate it. She had serious potty problems. I tried to slowly get her back on it, but each time, the potty problems came back. Within a few days of giving her TOTW the potty problems went away and has not had a problem since. I don’t know for sure if she had a reaction to chicken meal or something else that was in the food. I was told that sometimes chicken meal can cause an intolorance. Maybe it was just too rich for her. But now, I hesitate to try anything with chicken meal. I don’t want her to go through another bad time with diarrhea.
She is doing fine on TOTW.
I am open to suggestions for another LBP food that does not have chicken meal. Or if anyone knows about chicken meal in tolerance, let me know. Thanks.

[goldenstar]

This is excellent information aime. Thank You

[goldenstar]

anon101….I am so sorry for your loss. I recently lost my 9 year old Golden Retriever to soft tissue sarcoma. I will never know what was the cause. For Goldens, genetics has a lot to do with cancer. But that is what led me here for my new pup. I am trying to give my new girl the best chance she can have. Which by the way, I found dogfoodadvisor on google. (I say that with a smile)
Thank you for telling me about your experience. From what you describe, I totally agree with you and I understand where you are coming from.

[goldenstar]

Thanks pitluv for explaining about THK. And thank you for your opinion and about what works for you. Your knowledge and help has been great.
Without reading your post, I may have still been feeding my large breed puppy THK and that it would not be the best option for her growth. I respect your opinions.
I respect everyone’s opinions and wish I had not have jumped in before. I realize the
skeptvet is very passionate about helping pets.
I am open to holistic healing. I knew nothing about bad ethics. But I rely on my traditional Vet. I have been going to the same Vet for over 20 years.
I am open to all healing.

[goldenstar]

Mary.. on page 38 pitluv explains about the calcium to calorie ratio for THK and large breed puppies.

[goldenstar]

anon101… I trust my traditional vet a well. I don’t have a medical background and I come here to get advice. Dr google research… who said anything about that? And what does what a vet charge have anything to do with this conversation.? It is my opinion and that is all. The skeptvet is helpful, but I dont agree with everything said.
I am not going to get into a debate. I try to learn to help my pets.

[goldenstar]

Mary…My Golden is almost 8 months old, but I had some problems with her foods giving her very loose stool. I was giving her Orijen Large Breed Puppy food and had to transition her on to another because she was sensitive to something in the food. It was a stressful time so I understand your concerns.
I had her on THK for a short period of time and her stool was always pretty soft. I also found out that though it states it is ok for large breed puppies, it is lacking for meeting the nutritional needs for a large breed puppy due to its calcium to calorie ratio.
Pitluv… brought this to my attention, so check into some posts a few pages back.
It can also be confusing with all of the info available to us now. This is just my opinion, and I am no expert, but the skepvet is to the extreme opposite of holistic health. It is important to research all information, but some of the critical advice of the skeptvet is harsh and frightening. Again this is just my opinion.
It can be overwhelming with all of the info we have available today. I am glad your puppy is better.

[goldenstar]

I dont know why someone would tell you that, but I would “not” feed your large breed puppy an adult food. I agree….Stick with a large breed puppy food that is on the list for large breed puppies here at Dod Food Advisor.
Congrats on your puppy.

[goldenstar]

Thanks pitluv. It seemed to me that adding extras would change cal phos ratio. I had to ask to be sure. I agree with you about being cautious. I don’t think I will add extras until she is grown.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 8 months ago by goldenstar.

[goldenstar]

This may be a silly question or may seem obvious to some, but…..Will adding fruit and veggies change calcium to phosphorus ratio for growing large breed pup? What about adding other protein sources such as turkey ot beef?
Thanks.

[goldenstar]

I actually have my Golden on Taste of the Wild High Prairie Puppy right now. I had to take her off of Orijen due to potty problems. I wasn’t sure what was causing the problem, but decided to try something without chicken. I had to find a different food fast and found this at my local pet store.
I know this company has had issues, but she is doing really good on the food. I used the calculator and the numbers looked good.
I was thinking of gradually switching her over to Fromm, but she seems to be doing so well on this food, I may keep her on it. Unless anyone has information that I should know about.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by goldenstar.

[goldenstar]

Thanks so much pitluv for taking the time to do this and getting back to me. Definitely too high.

[goldenstar]

You are awesome pitluv. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

[goldenstar]

Hi pitluv…
Did you ever find out if Holistic Select Large Breed Puppy food’s calcium and cal phos levels where too high? Thanks

[goldenstar]

pitluv…Thanks about the avatar…she is changing so fast. She is now in her dumbo faze. Her ears and nose are bigger in proportion to her body. BTW…I adore yours.
Thanks for the info….I have been feeding her Orijen Puppy Large, and I think she has developed an intolorence for it. She had done well on it. But in the last week….Major potty problems. Everytime I reintroduce in small quantities, she again has major potty problems until it is out of her system. At this stage of her development, not being able to give her all the valuable nutrients she needs is so bad. So I am searching for a replacement and fast.
I had a fecal sample tested and it was clean. The vet gave me something to help, but it has not really worked. She is already slim. I don’t want her to lose any weight.
Thanks for all of your information.

[goldenstar]

Hi pitluv,
You recommend Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (the grain inclusive formula) and that it is safe for a growing giant breed.
I looked at the review and nutritional info. I noticed that the main protein source is chicken meal and is considered a plant based food.
This may be a silly question but would adding fresh lean meat to this food upset the Calcium Phosphorus Ratio.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by goldenstar.

[goldenstar]

Thanks pitluv. I really appreciate all of the information that you share.
I will have to take a look at balance it again. My vet suggested it before with my other Golden.
I did check it out but it did not seem to have formulas for large breed puppies. I will check it again to be sure.
I also just got Dr Becker’s cookbook. It would be a healthy option. It seems like a daunting task though.
For the last few months of my other Goldens life I prepared Dr Dressler’s cancer diet so I can prepare foods, but just not sure yet.

[goldenstar]

I do know that Goldens are prone to cancer…. due to their genitics for one reason. I may never know what the cause was for mine. I am just trying to reduce the risk if I can for my new girl in all areas of her life…. not just by reducing dried kibble in her diet.
Nutrition is a very big part in reducing the risk of cancer and most illnesses…..excersise, reducing stress, environmental toxins, genitics are some more things to consider for sure.
I too have fed kibble to my dogs throughout my life and some have lived long lives.
There does seem to be little research out there about kibble and carcinogens, but more information is being presented.
Here is one article by Dr Becker and how one researcher tested dogs to find carcinogens in their fur.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/05/27/cooked-meat-carcinogens.aspx
Now that I am aware of it, it is a little harder not to be concerned about it.
It looks like 4 and 5 star dried kibble may be best formulated to meet the the strict requirements for large breed puppies. Preparing a home cooked or raw diet is another option. But for me, it is a daunting task and I would still worry if my LBP was getting the right nutrition.
I really appreciate the important information that I have learned here.

[goldenstar]

Thanks for that article pitlove. The reason I wanted to stay away from kibble is because of the carcinogens introduced from the high temperature extrusion process in the making of dried kibble. I recently lost my 9 year old Golden Retriever to Cancer so I wanted to minimize the chances with my new girl.
But with the nutrient requirements for a LBP it is so hard to find anything but kibble that will give her the right balance of all essential nutrients.
Thanks -Beth

[goldenstar]

Pitlove…I am really glad that you have brought this higher calorie problem to light. I have not read anything about this before. Is there information that I can read about this to get a better handle on it.
I have been using The Honest Kitchen with extra meat and chicken necks. But since you have talked about the higher calorie problem…I am mixing it with Origin Puppy Large. I was really trying to stay away from kibble, but while she is a growing pup, I want to be sure she gets all of her nutrients. Thanks.

[goldenstar]

Thank you pitluv for this valuable information.

[goldenstar]

pitluv…can you explain or give me more info as to why THK is lacking for aafco and nrc standards fir large breed puppies?
Are they not giving accurate info? Thx.

[goldenstar]

I have looked for this information and could not find it. So ..sorry if I missed it. My question is…..Does the calcium to phosphorus ratio change if I were to add more meat and add raw chicken or turkey necks to my pups diet. I have a 13 week old Golden Retriever. I am feeding her The Honest Kitchen “Love”. I want to stay away from kibble and Love seems to fit into the safe for large breed puppy’s with calcium and the cal phos ratio. But I would like to add more meat to her diet and maybe some raw chicken or turkey necks a few times a week. How would this affect the calcium phosphorus levels? Thanks for any help on this.

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