[Jenn H]

When I am trying to decide what brands to feed my large breeds I always contact the company and ask them the MAX calcium & phosphorus is on a dry matter basis.
Companies are required to label the min. That’s not helpful when you have to know the upper limit of certain nutrients.
Even if I have fed that food before. If it’s been a while I contact them again to find out about any changes.
Many foods say they are formulated for large breeds yet have calcium amounts at or beyond the max. You must find out the exact percentage.

[goldenstar]

Thanks pitluv. It seemed to me that adding extras would change cal phos ratio. I had to ask to be sure. I agree with you about being cautious. I don’t think I will add extras until she is grown.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 8 months ago by goldenstar.

[Anice H]

Hi i am picking up an Alaskan Malamute puppy in 5 weeks and want to know what the best food for him, the breeder will have him on Iams puppy but not sure about that food plus I also heard I should try call of the wild can anyone help me , whats your thoughts on this
Thank you for your time

[Eric C]

Fromm large breed puppy. It has been great so far for my lab.

[pitlove]

Hi Anice-

It’s important to continue with the same food the breeder had the puppy on for about 3 weeks while she is adjusting to your home and your family. At that point you can switch the food if you do not want to continue using Iams. If I were you I would ask the breeder (if she has healthy, good quality dogs) why she chooses Iams for her puppies. I think those kinds of questions are helpful when you have doubts like yours.

[mary s]

Hello pitluv – I am new to the forum. I am getting an 8 week old Irish Setter in a few days. I have been reading this thread for a many hours (whew!) and first want to say a huge thank you to all….especially Hound Dog Mom. My puppy has been on Iams large breed puppy food. I will want to transition him to another food asap. He is 7 weeks old and weighs 14 pounds! That seems like a lot to me…but I haven’t had a setter puppy in 12 years. I have the lists, and HDM’s comments read, and am leaning towards The Honest Kitchen and Fromm’s large breed puppy. I will feed him raw eventually, but my vet is saying to wait until about 8 months because he is a Setter. I stopped reading at 850 comments, and would like to know if there is a newer list after that (around Sept, 2013) that HDM may have posted/compiled. The last list I am referring to is where she included raw and grain inclusive? Also, I read a comment you made a few days ago about Orijin reformulating the large breed puppy…is that correct? Is it now acceptable for the LBP list HDM started a few years ago? I remember she did not recommend it back then. Thank you.

[pitlove]

Hi Mary-

Congratulations on your new puppy. Sounds like he is going to be a big boy!

In regards to your specific questions, the list from 2013 is her most current list. Hound Dog Mom has been unable to contribute to the forums lately so the list has not been updated. Any company from that list you are considering I would email and ask for a nutrient analysis to confirm that the Ca and Phos levels have not changed. I would then input them into the calcium calculator on this site to double check that it falls within the safe ratios. Not only for the Ca and Phos, but also for the calorie to Ca ratio.

I agree with your vet about waiting to begin a raw diet until after the critical growth phase. And when you do decide to try raw selecting a random recipe from a book or the Internet is not advised. It would be wiser to use a commercial raw diet from a reputable company to ensure proper nutrient levels. Do not buy into the “balance over time” concept. Proponents of this believe that a diet that is not balanced daily can be balanced over time. It is thought that because many humans do not each balanced meals daily, dogs can also do the same. What they forget is that those individuals not eating balanced meals daily often end up with adverse affects later in life. Same is true for our pets.

In regard to Orijen Puppy Large, yes they did reformulate for more appropriate calcium levels.

[mary s]

Thank you pitluv

[John b]

Hello i tried going through this forum and i am still beyond confused…
i have a 12 week old american bulldog/bull mastiff Mix ….

anyways vet says to stay on a large breed puppy food..
currently on Fromm gold large breed puppy..

a person who seem’s to have alot of knowledge at a pet food store says i should not feed the puppy formula .. and go straight to the Fromm large breed adult food or another high quality adult food .. or im going to have problems… ive read alot online saying skip the puppy food aswell..

and i called Fromm and they say only feed the large breed puppy until like 18 months!!!
im new to this any advice would be appreciated

[InkedMarie]

I highly suggest you choose one of the foods on the list that is somewhere in this thread. The person who designed the list spend a great deal of time researching and if I had a large breed puppy, I’d use her list.

[goldenstar]

I dont know why someone would tell you that, but I would “not” feed your large breed puppy an adult food. I agree….Stick with a large breed puppy food that is on the list for large breed puppies here at Dod Food Advisor.
Congrats on your puppy.

[John b]

ok the reasoning was to help slow the growth for a better slow growth to avoid the bone / hip problems from growing to fast on the LBP food …. wheres the the adult food would be the best cause i dunno less growth crap? is that a known method for big dogs like danes mastiffs ect?

is fromm LBP on that list ?
Thanks

[aimee]

Hi John B,

The pet store employee needs to sharpen up his/her nutritional knowledge…. that advice is outdated. It may have had some validity many many years ago before puppy foods formulated specifically for large breeds were available, but not only is it is no longer valid, but it could be dangerous!

Correctly formulated large breed puppy foods are specifically formulated to help prevent growth disorders, that is the whole purpose of them. : )Adult dog foods.. not so much

In regards to Fromm…. both the “adult” and the “puppy” large breed are formulated for growth and there really isn’t that much difference between the two. Both report Calcium at 3 grams/1000 kcals which is the level nutritionists recommend, so either would meet your dog’s nutritional needs. But if the company itself recommends their puppy over their adult line, take their advice. Other companies’ adult foods are totally inappropriate for a growing large breed pup which is why to advice to use any “high quality adult food” is incorrect.

This article addresses the adult food for puppy myth http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=3501

[pitlove]

Hi John B-

It is very easy to explain why you are hearing these recommendations. They are practices that were considered effective 30-40 years ago before companies came out with foods formulated to properly meet the needs of a growing large and giant breed.

Now that we have better choices, it is no longer the recommendation from any veterinary nutritionist to feed a large breed puppy an adult maintenance diet.

This is the advice from Dr. Rebecca Remillard ACVN when asked about switching a Great Dane diganosed with pano to an adult food to slow growth:
“Please do not change the food from large breed growth to any adult formula and do not ADD any more calcium. This is exactly the opposite of the current recommendations.
I am sorry to hear that such outdated information is still being given out and causing more harm than good. The published studies in this area are about 15-20 yrs old now. I can assure you with that information; she is not certified by any Veterinary authorizing body, and if not certified by a veterinary board, she cannot legally be making diet recommendations on dogs with any medical condition for a price. Anyone can make diet recommendations for free.”

This is her website:https://www.petdiets.com

You are able to post questions to her and her staff of veterinary nutritionists in the “Ask the Nutritionist” section.

[crazy4cats]

Yes, it’s on the list. Please listen to your vet over the pet supply store clerk. It is important for your pup to stay lean and not grow too fast. But, it is also important that it gets all the vitamins and nutrients included in puppy food that a growing pup needs. And, most importantly, the calcium percentage needs to be appropriate for a growing LBP. Also, large breed food, both puppy and adult, are typically lower in calories and fat due to control growth and keep trim as adults.

I’m sure the store employee meant well as that used to be the belief. There is a nice article about choosing food for a large breed puppy. A bulldog/mastiff sounds awesome. Our neighbor has American Bulldogs, father and son. Impressive and nice dogs. I’m sure you’ll take great care of him/her.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by crazy4cats.

[John b]

Ok thanks for the responses…

i will keep my guy on the fromm large breed puppy …..

one more quick question when should i switch him to fromm large breed adult 12 months?

[pitlove]

For a mix of your babies size 18 months would be best

[John b]

Just curious can someone put up a URL of the foods that are safe?
i only see one on the first page or is that the one? but its all grain free on that list…
Thanks

• This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by John b.

[Jenn H]

Don’t listen to whoever it was who told you to skip the lg breed puppy food.
Puppies have different nutritional requirements than adults. And sm & lg breeds have different needs from each other.
If you choose an adult food it must say “for all life stages”.

Hound Dog Mom’s list is a very good starting point.
I sttill always contact a company directly before committing to a food and ask: if their diets are designed by a board certified nutritionist and what is the max calcium & phosphorus on a dry matter basis.

Right now I am raising a puppy that is going to be much larger than my other GSDs. The last dog I had that was so big I adopted at 3 so I didn’t have to worry about the growth stage.
I weigh this guy every week. He gained 2 lbs/wk from birth until he was just over 1 yr. Now he gains about 1 lb. He’s 15 months. Pretty soon I will probably weigh him every 2 wks.
The reason for this is because it is most important that you control the rate at which they grow. It’s not about growing him as fast as possible. It’s about keeping him from growing too fast.

[mary s]

I have a 9 week old Irish Setter puppy. He weighs 19 pounds. The breeder had him on Iams Large Breed puppy food. I wanted to get him off of that food, and had started adding a very small amount of yogurt and pumpkin to that food….I also added trippet. never more that a teaspoon. I was giving the additions for about 3 days, and he developed loose, mucus, stool I added more pumpkin, and the next day his stool was bloody and loose. We had a puppy check scheduled for that day, on Monday. He had started having loose poop on Sunday, and Monday morning lots of blood. the vet told me it was because I was giving him trippett and yogurt, and pumpkin. She wanted to put him on all this medication, and worm him (negative fecal). she also did a parvo test (neg). It was a hellish visit. I did not give him the meds, stopped everything but the Iams LBD and gave him homeopathic remedies and did energy work. He is fine now, his stool was formed without any blood within about 7 hours. This has left me hesitant to start The Honest Kitchen though. I was going to transition him over to THK Thrive after he had been with me a week…..not sure what to do now. Vet told me Irish Setters (I have had them for 45 years) have sensitive stomachs, and they do well on the “crap” food (she was referring to Iams), and to leave him on that. Iams is not on Hound Dog Mom’s list (don’t know why), but can I get some advice, encouragement, thoughts….any help 🙂 I wanted to add, THK, Thrive is 4463 kcal, 1.24 calcium, and .98 phosphorus, as fed.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by mary s.

[pitlove]

Hi mary-

I’m likely to agree with your vet on this one. The extras he was getting that were unnecessary to his diet are likely the cause of the issues he’s having. Pumpkin has a fine line of being a good stool firmer but give too much and it can cause loose stool.

I don’t know what “energy work” is or what homeopathic remedies you are trying to use on him, but it is best to keep his diet simple while he’s growing. Focus on one thing at a time. Keep him on Iams ONLY and long enough to note a change in symptoms. Then when he normalizes you could switch to THK if you wanted.

[anonymous]

I would listen to the veterinarian that examined the dog and comply with the recommended treatment.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

[mary s]

OK, well thanks for the reply. I was going by Hound Dog Mom’s suggestions for “toppers”. When I came to this site, I was so confused about what would be best for him. I had not had a puppy in 12 years, and back then was unaware of HOD, too much exercise, etc. I was feeling very confused, overwhelmed, and felt very lucky my dogs were as healthy as they were through the years. I loved her suggestions, and they made sense to me, and I felt like I had a plan for him and was so relieved 🙂 He never got more than a teaspoon of anything, as I was just starting to introduce those things.

[pitlove]

Hi mary-

I’m sorry, I wasn’t trying to imply you had caused the issues he has. I hope you didn’t take it that way. Hound Dog Mom’s suggestions were simply that. They will not always be appropriate for every dog. At this point it sounds like it is best to keep everything very simple for him.

[goldenstar]

Mary…My Golden is almost 8 months old, but I had some problems with her foods giving her very loose stool. I was giving her Orijen Large Breed Puppy food and had to transition her on to another because she was sensitive to something in the food. It was a stressful time so I understand your concerns.
I had her on THK for a short period of time and her stool was always pretty soft. I also found out that though it states it is ok for large breed puppies, it is lacking for meeting the nutritional needs for a large breed puppy due to its calcium to calorie ratio.
Pitluv… brought this to my attention, so check into some posts a few pages back.
It can also be confusing with all of the info available to us now. This is just my opinion, and I am no expert, but the skepvet is to the extreme opposite of holistic health. It is important to research all information, but some of the critical advice of the skeptvet is harsh and frightening. Again this is just my opinion.
It can be overwhelming with all of the info we have available today. I am glad your puppy is better.

[anonymous]

“It can also be confusing with all of the info available to us now. This is just my opinion, and I am no expert, but the skepvet is to the extreme opposite of holistic health. It is important to research all information, but some of the critical advice of the skeptvet is harsh and frightening. Again this is just my opinion”.

Holistic, homeopathic……what does that mean? Funny how these homeopathic vets tend to charge more for a consult than traditional vets do.

I trust my traditional vet. I communicate my concerns regarding treatment options if I have concerns and often we are able to come up with a plan we are both comfortable with. I don’t consider Dr Google research. If you have a medical background you may be able to weed through some of the inaccurate information, but most people can’t.
I have found the SkeptVet site to be extremely helpful. Just my opinion.
PS: Nothing is being sold at the above mentioned site, no supplements, no books, no t-shirts, no membership fees.
Just science-based veterinary medicine.

[goldenstar]

anon101… I trust my traditional vet a well. I don’t have a medical background and I come here to get advice. Dr google research… who said anything about that? And what does what a vet charge have anything to do with this conversation.? It is my opinion and that is all. The skeptvet is helpful, but I dont agree with everything said.
I am not going to get into a debate. I try to learn to help my pets.

[mary s]

Wow, well, thank you all for your opinions. First, THK is on Hound Dog Mom’s list as OK for Large breed puppies, and she even mentions in a post, that before she started feeding raw it was what she fed. It sounds like some more current “suggestions” differ from what she was putting out there at the start of this list. Second, regarding research…..I lived my research regarding traditional vet med. I had two littermate brothers with IBD. They weighed 52 and 58 pounds with bloody mucus filled poop, and could have died from the IBD. 3 different vets wanted to scope them, keep them on metranidozole (sorry, I’m sure I spelled that wrong) and steroids indefinitely. The raw diet, supplements, and homeopathic remedies are what saved their lives, and they went to 85 and 75 pounds. and lived to be 12. It might be beneficial for some of you to look up true homeopathics before some of the judgements. However, I am not interested in a debate either. I just came here for some help. Anyway, while disappointed, I am more certain of what I am doing. And thank you to whomever said they were glad he was doing better, because he is…..no blood, perfectly formed poop – without the harsh medications that only suppress the symptoms anyway. I think we may be in the wrong pew, but I wish you all the very best of luck with your dogs 🙂

[goldenstar]

Mary.. on page 38 pitluv explains about the calcium to calorie ratio for THK and large breed puppies.

[pitlove]

Hi Mary-

Yes, goldenstar is correct. It was actually not myself, but another regular poster Aimee, who was able to determine that THK does not actually fall into line with current feeding recommendations for LBP’s. The problem is that the NRC (National Research Council) and the AAFCO require any diet over 4000kcals/kg to be corrected for energy density. All of THK’s formulas are well over 4000kcals/kg. When corrected for energy density they are no longer LBP safe.

I do not want to get off on a tangent myself about holistic vs traditional, but personally, my beliefs and what works for me and my pets is traditional medicine. Science and scientific data have always been my friends. Holistic has not worked for me or my pets, so I do not go to those methods. Unfortunetly, I also find that some aspects of holistic medicine go against the code of ethics and oath I took even as a vet tech student.

[goldenstar]

Thanks pitluv for explaining about THK. And thank you for your opinion and about what works for you. Your knowledge and help has been great.
Without reading your post, I may have still been feeding my large breed puppy THK and that it would not be the best option for her growth. I respect your opinions.
I respect everyone’s opinions and wish I had not have jumped in before. I realize the
skeptvet is very passionate about helping pets.
I am open to holistic healing. I knew nothing about bad ethics. But I rely on my traditional Vet. I have been going to the same Vet for over 20 years.
I am open to all healing.

[anonymous]

“I respect everyone’s opinions and wish I had not have jumped in before. I realize the skeptvet is very passionate about helping pets”.

No! The more opinions the better. After losing a dog to hemangiosarcoma I started listening to the homeopathic vets (on-line), but after one of them advised no antibiotics (ever),no pain meds, no aggressive heartworm treatment for a positive dog, no vaccines, even rabies as required by law. I decided against it. As I believe some of their methods are putting pets and people at risk.
Many of the of the horrid conditions such as cancer have a strong genetic component. Diet and good care help, but can only do so much.

[goldenstar]

anon101….I am so sorry for your loss. I recently lost my 9 year old Golden Retriever to soft tissue sarcoma. I will never know what was the cause. For Goldens, genetics has a lot to do with cancer. But that is what led me here for my new pup. I am trying to give my new girl the best chance she can have. Which by the way, I found dogfoodadvisor on google. (I say that with a smile)
Thank you for telling me about your experience. From what you describe, I totally agree with you and I understand where you are coming from.

[aimee]

I just thought I’d comment since The Honest Kitchen ( THK) foods have been discussed in regards to LBP’s with the concerns referenced back to me.

The concern I have with THK is that not all of the nutrient profiles they have published currently meet AAFCO.

Here are a few examples:

“Love” is marketed as an all life stages food: ~4825 kcals/kg
THK reports Love’s Ca content as 1.19% DM Using the AAFCO min 1%DM and that any diet over 4000kcals/kg must be corrected for energy density the min calcium should be 1.37% The correction factor is 4825/3500 X 1% = 1.37 %

So here we see a diet below AAFCO min for Calcium. Using the newer AAFCO min of 1.2% DM and energy density of 4000kcals/kg. It is clear that even before using the necessary correction factor the diet will be below AAFCO The correction factor in the new guidelines 4825/4000 x 1.2% = 1.44%

“Thrive” is another all life stages food ~4859kcals/kg

THK reports Ca as 1.34%. Min Ca to meet AAFCO profiles :4859/3500 x 1 = 1.38% or 4859/4000 x 1.2 = 1.45%. Either way a smidge below AAFCO.

Looking at another nutrient from Thrive: THK reports Vit E as 54.11 IU
AAFCO min 4859/3500 X 50 = 69.4IU or 4859/4000 X 50 = 60.7 IU.. either way the diet falls short.

THK used to report the Vit E content in Keen as 23.45IU; clearly below AFFCO min of 50 IU. I contacted them via chat and they confirmed that was the correct and most current value. Then I asked why it was below AAFCO…and then they gave me a new number- 56.24 which is now on their website. Presto Chango!

They report 4524.6kcals/kg 4524.6/4000 X 50 = 56.56IU or 4524.6/3500 X 50 = 64.67IU. Either way their new number falls a bit short too.

It also concerns me that they do “Presto Chango” the nutrient information on their site when I inquire about a concern. That wasn’t the first time THK has immediately changed a nutrient level in their tables after I contacted them.

I like the concept of the food and I think it would be OK to use for intermittent or supplemental feeding but personally I wouldn’t raise a pup on any of their diets.

[pitlove]

Aimee, as always thank you for stepping in with the math! You know how I hate math haha.

Oh golden, don’t ever think you can not speak your mind. Trust me, you are one of the least offensive people on DFA when it comes to the way you voice your opinion. And thank you for your kind words. I’m very passionate about my large breeds.

I personally do like SkeptVet and appreciate his passion for ethical and science based veterinary medicine.

[goldenstar]

This is excellent information aime. Thank You

[Molly F]

Ok, I’ve gone and gotten myself all worried and worked up now!
Here’s the story: I have an 8mo old female GSD who came from pretty large stock. She was on LBP food until about 6mo when I switched her over to Purina One Lamb and Rice, partly because I had read it was recommended to switch large breeds earlier (old info, I know) and partly because she was SOOOO itchy on a chicken based food. The switch to lamb did seem to help with the itchy skin, but now I’m all stressed out that I’ve messed up her growth by taking her off puppy food too soon. I’m thinking of doing her half and half on the Purina and TOTW puppy.
I guess my questions are:
Will it help/make any difference to add puppy food back in at this point? Should I switch her back to all puppy?
I know TOTW isn’t the very best, but it’s pretty good for my price range. I’m not really anti-grain and still make some toppers/treats with cooked grains.
I guess I just need some more input…..

[pitlove]

Hi Molly-

Here is the good news. Purina ONE Lamb & Rice is an “All Life Stages” food, meaning it is for puppies as well as adults. So techincally she has been on a puppy food this whole time. However, I do not have the MAX calcium and phos for Purina ONE, so I couldn’t tell you if it was LBP safe. I think it would be wise though, to go ahead and put her back on a food that is known to be LBP safe (which Taste of the Wild Puppy is).

This is around the point of growth when they can begin to regulate calcium properly, but the current recommendation from veterinary nutritionists is to keep LBP’s on a LBP food until a year at the very least, 18 months is better.

[goldenstar]

I have my 8 month old Golden Retriever on TOTW High Prairie Puppy food. I too think there may be better choices, but I am trying to keep her away from chicken meal. There are just a few LBP puppy foods that don’t have chicken meal. I was feeding her Orijen. She did fine for a while and then she would not tolerate it. She had serious potty problems. I tried to slowly get her back on it, but each time, the potty problems came back. Within a few days of giving her TOTW the potty problems went away and has not had a problem since. I don’t know for sure if she had a reaction to chicken meal or something else that was in the food. I was told that sometimes chicken meal can cause an intolorance. Maybe it was just too rich for her. But now, I hesitate to try anything with chicken meal. I don’t want her to go through another bad time with diarrhea.
She is doing fine on TOTW.
I am open to suggestions for another LBP food that does not have chicken meal. Or if anyone knows about chicken meal in tolerance, let me know. Thanks.

[pitlove]

Hi golden

This is actually one of the issues I take up with Orijen’s formulas. I personally dislike how many different proteins they use because if your dog does in fact have some type of a GI reaction to the food, it’s almost damn near impossible to know what ingredient or what about the food is causing it.

I’m not sure why a lot of puppies do not do well on Orijen, but you are not the first person who has had that complaint. As far as Taste of the Wild goes, if your pup is doing well on it then perhaps that is the best food for her. Just watch recall alerts if you live on the east coast since the South Carolina Diamond plant is where most of their issues have come from.

[aimee]

Hi Molly,

If you are using Purina Smartblend Lamb and Rice, as Pitlove said, it is an All life Stages food. Purina reports the average nutrient analysis Ca content as 3.48 grams/1000kcals. I’d consider this level appropriate for an 8 month old large breed. I don’t see any need for you to switch off of it. As a bonus it has been through feeding trials

[Molly F]

Thanks Aimee and Pitluv, you made me feel so much better!!!!
I know Purina doesn’t get a lot of love in many circles, but I’ve had and known dogs who were very healthy and lived long lives on it and I generally trust the company.

[Nick B]

Hello, we just adopted a 10 month old golden retriever puppy (Margo) and looking for the best food on a budget and fairly easy to find. The foster parents had been feeding Margo Fromm Beef Frittata Veg and it is a little pricy for us just getting started. Are there any good options that are more affordable and easier to find in local stores?

Also, in your list of best foods, none of them mention large breed puppy formulas. Is that just a given or are the options listed fine for any age dog?

Thanks!

[Erin R]

Need some help. I have 3 mo Lab puppy & she’s been underweight since we got her. Her breeder merged 2 litters for total of 21 puppies fighting for food out of 4 large feeding “troughs”, so most were underweight and had strong food fighting drive. When I got her at 8 weeks she was only 11 lbs, and I’ve been trying to very slowly add weight to her, but being careful to not overdo it. She’s now 14 weeks old and just now 20 lbs. I’ve been feeding her Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast as suggested on Hound Mom’s list. She loves her food, but today I was shocked to find a large cockroach in the bag- dead. It’s a ziplock bag, and we don’t have any in our home, so I know it came from plant. I’m done with this food brand & feel like I’m back to square one. I liked the price point for that food, as well as grain free, although I don’t know if that’s really a huge issue for her. I see Fromm’s Gold Large Breed Puppy on her list, but I don’t see the Heartland Gold which is grain free- anyone have input/experience with either of those and whether Heartland will work or not for calcium? Thanks!!

[pitlove]

Hi Molly-

Yes unfortuntely Purina has gotten a bad reputation, partly due to other companies slandering them. For my dogs personally, Pro Plan is the first food that worked in every aspect for us. Solved my pit’s allergies, something they will eat and something that agrees with their stomachs. I work at a small pet store that carries “premium” foods, so I’ve had an opportunity to try just about all of them. I couldn’t find anything that my pitbull could have that he actually would eat. He’d rather starve than eat some of the “better” foods.

I definitely would agree with Aimee on this one though. I’d stay with Purina ONE. Best of luck!

[pitlove]

Hi Nick-

What type of store are you looking to shop at? Petco? PetSmart? If so, the best choices from those stores are going to be either Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy or Science Diet Large Breed Puppy. Both AAFCO feed trialed, formulated by veterinary nutritionists, low energy density, and restricted levels of calcium and phosphorus. If you are not interested in feeding one of those brands let me know.

Also, can you order online?

[pitlove]

Hi Erin-

Fromm is a great food and company. I like their Gold Large Breed Puppy formula. The Fromm website only lists the “as fed” and “dry matter” data in their techinical analysis for the HeartLand Large Breed Gold, which according to the article on DFA for the calcium calculator will not give an accurate read out on the ratio of Ca:P and Ca:kcals. I’d see if you can email Fromm and ask for the “average” or MAX levels of calcium and phos and then use those numbers.

Grain free vs grain inclusive is a non factor for growth. The important things are regulating calcium intake with an appropriate diet and making sure you are using a food with low energy density. Keeping your puppy lean throughout growth and life will help her better her chances at proper growth and development. It is also going to be important to work with your vet in determining if she is growing at a proper rate given her upringing at the kennel she came from.

[Erin R]

Thanks pitluv!

[Ramona F]

Hi Erin
My lab was 14 lbs at 8 weeks and big in the litter and she is 90 lbs now at 2.5 years . I have fed her grain free fish with a switch once in a while to duck and turkey. For the first year I spent money on the high cost foods such as Orijen Large Breed Puppy. I now feed Horizon Pulsar.
I chose Grain Free to avoid hot spots and because my last lab had cancer at 12 and the recommendation was to remove grains. I had fed her lamb and rice.
I never feed milk as its another source of hot spots.
My lab is healthy vibrant and strong.

[Molly F]

Hey there, back again!
This is slightly off topic, but you all have been so helpful, thought I’d ask.
After we switched from Purina One LBP (chicken based) to Lamb and Rice, Freya’s itching did seem to decrease. I made the misteak of getting excited about home cooking and tried multiple new proteins (beef, pork, tuna) and she’s super itchy again. It’s been almost two weeks since she’s had anything but her kibble though, with the exception of some beef liver treats I made, and she’s still itchy. She did eat some chicken based cat food (in the form of cat vomit :/) and I noticed that the lamb and rice has “poultry by product meal” and I wonder if she’s sensitive the that.
She’s not really itching or chewing holes in herself and her poops seem good,so I’m aware it’s possibly not a food thing at all, but I’m going to switch her to EBH Coastal Catch, just to see if maybe she does better without grains. I don’t really have anything against grains, and I don’t really think it’s terrible for dogs to have them, but her current food has multiple and I want to figure out if maybe it’s one of those, as her symptoms seem slightly closer to a yeast issue.
Thoughts?

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