[Akari_32]

Which would you go for? The LID or the Wholesome Essentials?

Wholesome Essentials Puppy:
http://www.nutro.com/natural-dog-food/natural-choice-dog-food/dry/wholesome-essentials-puppy-food.aspx

-27% Protein
-16% Fat
-384 calories/cup

LID Puppy:
http://www.nutro.com/natural-dog-food/natural-choice-dog-food/dry/lid-puppy-food-lamb-and-rice.aspx

-26% Protein
-15% Fat
-393 calories/cup

Its either more fat and protein, and less calories, or less fat and protein and more calories. I think I’d rather go with the first, though. The calories aren’t that much different (neither really are the fat and protein, but you know)… What I really want is the Small Breed Puppy, but the largest bag it comes in is 8 pounds, and the rebate calls for 15 pound bags. Poo 🙁 http://www.nutro.com/natural-dog-food/natural-choice-dog-food/dry/small-breed-puppy-food.aspx

[Sue’s Zoo]

Currently feeding my 6 month old shiloh half raw (Primal) and getting ready to move the 3 month old to raw as well. I want to switch to full raw but cost is prohibitive with commercial foods so I’ve decided to order my MPC and do it myself.

My concerns are:

-Do I still need to consider kcal and calcium/phosphorus ratio? If so how on earth would I calculate it?

-If someone has experience with this do you think it will be completely overwhelming to keep everything ordered in proper quantities with two very fast-growing pups? The older is now 85 pounds and the younger is 40.

-Should I wait til younger pups adult teeth are in (raw meaty bones)?

I really want to do it but feeling a bit overwhelmed. (Maybe I need a topic for feeding non-commercial raw to large breed puppies!) Also posting under Raw Feeding topic.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Connicorso! Hound Dog Mom already did all the hard work contacting companies for the actual amount of calcium in their foods. Protein is not the issue, rather the calcium is. Here is the list that HDM made for large breed growth appropriate foods: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit
Regarding Puppy or Adult food, AAFCO only acknowledges to types of food: 1- growth and reproduction and 2- adult maintenance. See here: /frequently-asked-questions/aafco-nutrient-profiles/
I would make sure the food you feed meets the requirements for growth or is for “all life stages.”

Pinnacle has 3 varieties (though none grain-free) that made the cut to be on her list. It is a 4 star rated food. I used to feed my Dane the duck & potato variety and he really liked it and did well on it. Wellness Core Puppy is on HDM’s list too. It is a 5 star food. I haven’t personally used it but a lot of people seem to like it.

Remember that you don’t have to pick one food and feed it forever. The best thing you can do is rotate the food you feed your pup. Choose a few different brands and a few different protein sources. Just like with people, variety in the diet is important. You can even rotate grain-inclusive foods with grain-free foods. Also, just because someone suggests a food or it has good reviews doesn’t necessarily mean it will work for your pup. Every dog is different. If a food doesn’t seem to be working, scratch it off your list and move on to the next one.

My top 3 picks for grain-free foods would be: Earthborn Holistic (Meadow Feast and Coastal Catch), Annamaet (Salcha and Aqualuck), and Wellness Core Puppy. My top 3 picks for grain-inclusive would be: Dr. Tim’s Kinesis, Annamaet Ultra, and Nature’s Variety Prairie (Puppy or Large Breed Puppy).

Hope that helps! 🙂

[Connicorso]

Hello everyone! I need some help please! I’m sure this was already discussed at one point and I did try to search a bit but wasn’t finding exactly what I needed… So please forgive me:)
Anyways, we have a 14 week old Cane Corso- Italian Mastiff. She is obviously going to be a very big dog- her dad is 170 pounds! I want to switch her food. The breeder had her on Iams Large breed dog food. I think I want a food that is grain free. I am just so overwhelmed by all the information that is available and all of the brands. I am also confused by how much protein and calcium she should have and if she should be on adult food instead of puppy food? The brand Pinnacle was recommended to me. Has anyone used this brand or have any information about it for large breeds? Also, what about Wellness Core Dog Food? Please feel free to give me any advice/recommendations you may have. Thanks so much!

[AT]

Here is a link on THK website, which can help you estimate how long a box will last you depending on your dog’s size:
http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/resources-and-programs/feeding-tips#dogfood
AT

[theBCnut]

Hi Dean
THK is a dehydrated food that you are supposed to rehydrate. That makes it more comparable to canned food, but less processed.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Dean-

I love THK and have been using it for going on 6 years. You have too look at the food based on calories. THK Love has 514 cal per cup. NV LID Turkey has 444 cal per cup. You would not have to feed as much of the THK as you would the NV. A 10lb box of THK has 40 dry cups in it. To determine how long a box of Love will last you, figure out how many calories you will feed a day then convert that to cups per day. Divide 40 cups by the number of cups per day you’ll feed and that will give you how many days the box will last. I mix THK with raw at a 50/50 mix so I feed my Dane 1.5 cups THK per day. One 10lb box lasts me about 26 days. My Dane only eats about 1700 calories per day.

Overall, I’m sure THK will cost a bit more than feeding kibble but less than feeding all canned or commercial raw. You just have to decide if the extra cost is worth it to you to feed a superior food that’s made with whole foods and human-grade ingredients.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by RescueDaneMom.

[dean ousterhout]

I am wondering how “The Honest Kitchen” food compares to a normal kibble in terms of quantity? At $10 per lb for a 10 lb box, this sounds pretty expensive, compared to Natures Variety at $2.33 per lb for 27 lb bag.

Does one cup of THK go farther than one cup of NV?

Thoughts? While I would like my dog to have the best, we do have a budget to work with.

[Nellys Mom]

I have a 6 mth old chocolate lab, about 60lbs right now, and we have a 12 1/2 year old beagle/terrier cross( 22 lbs ) . Is there an “all life stages” food you would recommend for both. Would the TOTW be acceptable. I’m willing to rotate food but want to do that right as well, and be sure each food is acceptable. I can get the Wild Boar or the Smoked Salmon, both grain free from the Pet Valu store nearby. ??? any info would be greatly appreciated.

[RescueDaneMom]

crazy mom-

The general consensus is that puppies can start regulating calcium uptake at 10 months. Your Danes are both over 10 months so you don’t have to feed one of the foods on HDM’s list. The most important thing is that it is “All Life Stages”. Most of the “large breed,” “giant breed,” “senior” labels are just marketing and there is no real benefit to feeding those foods over a regular ALS food.

Victor is a good food. Most of their varieties are 4 and 5 stars. /dog-food-reviews/victor-dog-food/
The Victor Select Professional formula looks good, it’s rated 4 stars. The Hi Pro Plus is 5 stars. You would be ok feeding any of their varieties but I’d stay away from the Multi-Pro Maintenance and the Beef Meal and Brown Rice, both are 3.5 stars.

If you can, it is better to rotate different brands of foods rather than different formulas within the same brand. Any deficiencies or abundances in certain vitamins or minerals will likely be present in all formulas within a brand. If you can rotate different brands, you are more likely to cover all your bases because different brands have different vitamin/mineral profiles. Do you know what other brands your feed store carries? I could help you sort out some of the better ones to choose from if you like.

Edit- regarding transitioning, you may have to do it slowly at first. The more you change the food the easier transition will become. I changed foods after every bag and my Dane could switch cold turkey from bag to bag after awhile. That’s something you’ll need to watch your dogs for. If their stools start becoming loose then you might be transitioning too fast and need to slow it back down.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by RescueDaneMom.

[crazy mom]

Is the victor “all life stage ” food? Thank you so much for your help. I would like to stay around 45 ish I can go more if I am not do it every week like we were on TOTW. I know that our feed store has victor. If I go between the victor chicken and lamb can I just change the food out or do i have to graduate it over time? thank you for all your help.
When we changed from the totw to our food now is when my 1 yr old Dane started loosing weight. 🙁
What about the giant breed dog foods, would those not be made for Great Danes?
🙂 thanks for all the help

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Dean-

Maybe your bulldog is intolerant of chicken. I find it interesting that all the problems went away on the venison. I would try a food that doesn’t have any chicken in it. The ones I think are available at Petsmart/Petco from HDM’s list are: Pinnacle Trout & Sweet Potato, Pinnacle Duck & Potato, Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit Meal Formula, and Nature’s Variety LID Turkey Meal Formula.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi crazy mom- There are some affordable, high quality foods out there. I have an almost 8 year old Great Dane and I understand how pricey it can be to feed them.

Annamaet Ultra from HDM’s list is $70 for a 40 pound bag which comes out to $1.75/pound. It has 480 calories/cup so you’ll feed less of it than you would other foods which will also make it stretch further- a good bang for your buck. http://www.chewy.com/dog/annamaet-ultra-32-dry-dog-food/dp/41926

Annamaet Extra is also a possibility. It is lower protein at 26% instead of 32% (I prefer higher protein for my dog). It is $53 for a 40 pound bag ($1.33/pound). It is not as calorically dense as the Ultra at 425 cal/cup so you would need to feed a little more of it. http://www.chewy.com/dog/annamaet-extra-26-dry-dog-food/dp/41927

Dr. Tim’s Kinesis is good too. It’s $61 for a 44 pound bag ($1.39/pound). It has 415 cal/cup and 26% protein. http://www.chewy.com/dog/dr-tims-kinesis-all-life-stages-dry/dp/37810

Victor Select Chicken Meal and Brown Rice or Lamb Meal and Brown Rice are also affordable. The chicken is 391 cal/cup, 24% protein, and $55 for 40 pounds ($1.38/pound). http://www.amazon.com/Victor-Dog-Food-Chicken-40-Pound/dp/B00COVMFW4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1389619583&sr=8-6&keywords=victor+select+dog+food
The lamb is 381 cal/cup, 24% protein, and $59 for 40 pounds ($1.48/pound). This would be good so you can alternate proteins and not feed just chicken all the time. http://www.amazon.com/Victor-Dog-Food-Chicken-40-Pound/dp/B00COVSBL8/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1389619583&sr=8-9&keywords=victor+select+dog+food

Those are all grain-inclusive foods. Grain-free cost a bit more and I don’t know exactly what your budget is. I think Earthborn Holistic is the most affordable and high quality grain free food out there. Meadow Feast and Coast Catch are on HDM’s list. They are both $47.99 for a 26 pound bag ($1.85/pound). The MF is lamb-based, 26% protein, and 400 cal/cup. http://www.chewy.com/dog/earthborn-holistic-meadow-feast/dp/36414
The CC is fish-based, 32% protein, and 435 cal/cup. http://www.chewy.com/dog/earthborn-holistic-coastal-catch/dp/36406

As far as your Danes putting weight on, as long as their not ribby it’s ok for them to be on the lean side. It’s better to be lean than overweight. You don’t want added stress on the joints.

I hope I helped with the food recommendations. If you can afford it, I would try alternating the grain-inclusive foods with grain-free foods. You could do Annamaet Ultra, Earthborn Meadow Feast, Dr. Tim’s, Earthborn Coastal Catch. That way you rotate protein sources (chicken, lamb, and fish) as well as protein percentages (32% and 26%).

[dean ousterhout]

We have an Alpaha Bulldog Puppy that is 6 months old. She came to us on Purina Puppy Chow and had red itching bumps and hair loss on her back legs. We started switching to Wellness based on HDM’s list and long story short… we have been having diarrhea issues. We made some homemade food with venison, sweet potato, carrots, rice, and oatmeal and stopped both the Purina and the Wellness and that got rid of both the diarrhea and the red itching bumps.

Then we started ramping up the Wellness. 1/2 Cup at a time and after about a week we were back up to 3 cups per day plus 2 lbs of the homemade food at 2 feedings.

Now we have the diarreah back. Sigh… I guess there is something in the Wellness that is bothering her?

So… what to try next? I need something today… preferably that I can get at Petsmart… Any ideas? I am having problems getting to HDM’s list…

[crazy mom]

I know it has prolly been asked but I have a 11 month old Great Dane and a 1yr old Great Dane and 3 yr old blood houd. My Danes can’t seem to put weight on. We have up the amount of food and still having problems. They are on large beed exclusive. I have seen the list and I know it’s not on that list ,but we ran into some financial problems and with the large dogs had to watch what we were spending on food. We are going to switch the food I don’t know to what yet but I am not sure what to look for to put weight on my babies. 🙁 they were on TOTW but I saw a while ago that was not good either for my puppy and the big dogs and we were spending quite a bit on food.
Thank you

[aimee]

I’ve owned several Labs and used to show in conformation and obedience. I love the breed. I do think 6 weeks is too young to remove from the litter. Any chance the breeder will keep the litter together for at least another week?

The time to start puppy classes is about a week after the first vaccination so well before 12 weeks. The key is that the exposure is to other healthy vaccinated dogs in a controlled environment. You can find some good information at dogstardaily.com The information is broken down into what you need to know before you get your pup, first week home, first month home etc.

As for feeding, in addition to appropriate calcium levels I only feed foods that have passed feeding trials during the growth period. I raised my last two Labs on Pro Plan large breed puppy. In addition to HDMS list you can find food suggestions here /canine-nutrition/hip-dysplasia-dogs/#comment-510071572

and here:/canine-nutrition/hip-dysplasia-dogs/#comment-513500240

[RescueDaneMom]

I just wanted to say that I love THK too and have been using it for 5 years. There are 2 formulas on HDM’s list: Thrive (4 stars, has quinoa in it so not technically grain-free but still an awesome food) and Love (5 stars).

[theBCnut]

I’m answering all out of order. I love THK! I recommend rotating slower to start with, so you know what your puppy can handle. It may be fine to go that fast, but it may not. Take a week to switch foods, then stay on the food for a week, then take a week to switch to the next food to start with, at the fastest. It really won’t hurt anything if you go too slow, but it may if you go faster.

The way dry foods are made with the proteins added seperately from the fats, seperately from the…, seperately from the…, makes them fairly consistant. With canned, they can throw whole pieces parts in the pot and turn them into canned food with no idea how much of it is bone, fat, or meat, very inconsistant and can change a lot batch to batch. Like I said, I don’t know that for sure, but with how far off the GAs are on many canned foods, that’s what I expect.

[theBCnut]

I would worry that with how they make canned foods, you wouldn’t ever be sure of consistant calcium levels, someone who knows more may prove me wrong, but that’s my worry with going completely canned.

I would leave him on the food he came on for several days or do a very slow transition, like 10% change instead of the 25% that is usually recommended. If you decide you want to go to raw, I would add it as a topper for a few days, then increase the amount.

Nature’s Variety Instinct, Annamaet, and Earthborn are some of my favorite kibbles on HDM’s list.

And yes, start rotation right from the beginning, before you use up one bag already have the next so you can transition. Keep an eye on the stool to know how fast you can transition and in no time your dog will be like ours and need no transition at all.

[AT]

New here…We are bringing an 8 week old Labrador puppy home next Saturday and I am trying to narrow in on food options. I have spent the last few days reading every single post in this thread and it has been quite an education – thank you to all of you who spend time here to help educate others!
My questions:
1. Our puppy will be coming home on Purina Pro Plan Focus Puppy Large Breed Formula and I want to transition him to something better as soon as possible. Would a few days after he is home and settled in be too soon to start a transition, provided he is not showing any signs of GI distress?
2. If price/cost is not a constraint, what off the shelf product would you feed a lab puppy? I am not up to a homemade diet at this point (might consider this in the future, but don’t trust myself to get up to speed in one week and to get it right during this crucial growth period). Most of the discussions I’ve read here involve rotating quality dry foods (with added toppers/supplements). Would this be the best way to start since our puppy will be coming home on a dry food?
It has also been stated that raw, canned or reconstituted is even better. I can see the raw recommendations in the document linked to several times throughout this thread. What do you consider to be the best of these brands? Would transitioning directly to raw be ok for our puppy; or should we go first to canned, then to raw?
Can anyone offer recommendations for the “best of the best” of canned foods for a large breed puppy? I figure I can call companies to calculate exact calcium/kcal, but could anyone offer the best brands/formulas to start my efforts? The fives stars listed in the library are:
By Nature 95% Meat (Canned)
Castor and Pollux Natural Ultramix (Canned)
Dogswell Dog Food (Canned)
EVO Dog Food (Canned)
Fromm Gold Nutritionals (Canned)
Go! Fit and Free (Canned)
Great Life Essentials (Canned)
Kirkland Cuts in Gravy (Canned)
Life’s Abundance (Canned)
Merrick Dog Food (Canned)
Merrick Grain Free Dog Food (Canned)
Nature’s Variety Instinct (Canned)
Pet-Tao Dog Food (Canned)
Pure Balance Dog Food (Canned)
Tiki Dog Food (Canned)
Wellness Core Dog Food (Canned)
Wellness Stews (Canned)
Weruva Kobe (Canned)
Weruva Kurobuta (Canned)
ZiwiPeak Daily Dog Cuisine (Canned)

Thank you so much for any advice!
AT

• This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by AT.

[yellowlabbaby]

Hi,
Ive grown up w pets but this will be my first time being responsible for this type of living being myself. Ive been doing a ton of research since i paid my deposit and have realized theres much more than i knew to it and i dont think google can educate me with all i need to know. So im hoping some of you fellow dog owners can help! I pick my male yellow lab puppy up on Feb 2 and he will be only 6wks old (born dec 22). My research has shown this to be definitely at least 2wks too early but the breeder insists this is fine and will not keep him another 2-3wks with his mother. So I’m hoping I can give him the proper development tools during those few weeks and any advice would be appreciated! I have purchased a metal kennel with dividers for his growth (blue in color because I read they see that color somewhat better?) and have researched crate training (again any additional advice would be great). I also purchased an extra large dog bed so he will grow into it without having to change/replace his known comfort area, and a metal 8 panel exercise pen for the living room because my research said not to allow him full access of the house during training and this allows him to not be secluded in his more appropriate spaced living area (do I really have to keep him from the whole house for at least 6months?) I’ve printed the food list from hound mom but does anyone have any suggestions and reasons to the best choice? I have a food store fairly close by that carries most of the listed options. I think ive gotten pretty good training guidance online but as ive said advice is welcome. Ill be looking for a vet i like but would like some feedback as to fle medication, heartguard, whats the best shampoo etc for this type of dog and age, supplies such as right brush, teeth care, toys, etc. Also i read he can not be outside or around other dogs until like 12 weeks but that socialization with other dogs is crucial during the time before that as well as walks and outside play, so any suggestion/feedback on that? I have three kids 8, 6, and 5 who are a bit wild and im concerned will interfere with the correct training/ pack order our puppy will need, amy help with that? I am taking this very seriously, i want to raise this dog properly for his mental, emotional, developmental, and physical health. Ive learned that i wont be able to love him like a member of our human family as planned but instead love him as a member of his dog family in us. So any and all help, advice, information, and suggestion is requested and much appreciated!!! Thank you all so much!!

[theBCnut]

Mainly because a lot of people have been reporting vomitting and diarrhea on BB lately, even with dogs that have been on it for a long time. So until whatever is going on is figured out or the number of complaints goes down dramatically, I recommend that people stay away from it or watch their dog closely.

Also it is actually too high in calcium for large breed dogs. Hound Dog Mom contacted all the companies that have 4 and 5 star ALS foods and asked them for their “as fed” calcium levels, as opposed to the minimums that are required on the label. Some companies didn’t bother to respond, so didn’t make her list. Some were too high in calcium. BB was one of those.

[theBCnut]

Here is Hound Dog Mom’s latest list on safe dog foods for large breed dogs. Pick one from it. Don’t use BB anything at this time.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v

[JulieS]

Hi I’m deciding what kind of food for a Golden Retriever puppy, do you think
BLUE Wilderness Large Breed Puppy food be a possible good choice? On their website they list the ingredients as,
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 37.0% min
Crude Fat 14.0% min
Crude Fiber 6.5% max
Moisture 10.0% max
Calcium 1.2% min
Phosphorus 0.9% min
DHA* 0.1% min
Omega 3 Fatty Acids* 0.5% min
Omega 6 Fatty Acids* 2.5% min
L-Carnitine* 100 mg/kg min

Thanks, I’d appreciate any thoughts or experiences. I was hoping to find a food I can easily get & one not terribly expensive.

[wallyworld]

Hi All,
Our Goldendoodle is 70 lbs. and will be 1 yr this month. He’s still got some filling out to do. I’ve been using HDM’s list of foods for appropriate calcium levels etc. I also just found the grain free, potato free list.
Questions:
1. He has mild skin itching, paw chewing, nothing too serious. Wanted to see if a food allergy is responsible. As a younger pup he seemed to not handle potatoes well (diarrhea) not sure about that now. Do I eliminate all possible allergens up front and see if it helps or should I start with certain ones? I.e. Remove grains first, then chicken, then others? Or should I just go grain free, chicken free up front?
2. I believe HDM’s list is mainly for LB puppies? At his current age I don’t need to worry about the calcium levels anymore, right? I ask only because that opens up a larger variety of foods to choose from.
Thanks for any feedback.

[cinner00]

I am very satisfied with 4Health dry food for my dog. I have a question about which adult food would be better for my pup. My trainer said I should go with the higher protein one, 4Health Performance, another person suggested the adult large breed formula. I have a 9 month old Bernese Mt, Shepherd mix. He is 63 pounds, tall and lean, healthy shiny coat. He did great on the puppy food and handles both of the a fore mentioned formulas fine. I am not looking to switch brands, just which of these would be best for his diet moving forward. You give the performance 4.5 stars. Note: My pup did not do well on grain free food at all.

[danm787]

I have a 1 year old American Bulldog that has been vomiting since about 4 months old. I have taken her to the vet several times and x-rays showed no foreign objects. I was feeding her diamond naturals large breed puppy until about 6-7 months old then switched her to the large breed adult formula. She has never been consistent on her eating times no matter how strict I feed her. The vomiting occurs in the morning after being awake for a little while. Thinking it may be her food I switched her to Nutro Max large breed. With negative results. The only thing that keeps her from vomiting in the morning is giving her Famotadine when she wakes up. I recently thought of changing her food to pro plan sensitive stomach. Has anyone else had this problem? The vet has yet to come up with a solution other than medication.

[plavoie]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,
I was hoping to refer to your listing of food for our large breed puppy and cannot view it. I’ve tried both links you listed. I remember Wellness core was on there. Was that puppy or all life stages?
thx

[mellowmutt]

I got Amiga at 8 weeks old, back on June 1st. Her breeder recommended Nutro LBP Lamb & Rice, so that’s what I fed her at first. I wasn’t happy with her gas or her stools, so I did some research and decided to mix Orijen LBP and NV Prairie LBP with the Nutro. Did some more research and discovered that I was feeding her way too much calcium. So I added two other foods to the mix in mid-July, NV Instinct Rabbit and CC Open Sky, had to set up a spreadsheet to keep CA, CA:K, calories & protein in order. I did the calculations based on the max-CA values, not averages or the tested values of a specific batch, to be on the safe side.

Ran out of this mix a month ago, at 8 months apparently she can regulate her CA herself, so I quit worrying about it. Now I have her on a mix of Orijen Regional Red, NV Instinct Rabbit, and NV Prairie Venison & Barley. It seems reasonable to me to feed her a red-meat diet in winter, and switch to a fish-and-fowl diet come summer (ancestral-wolf feeding pattern). In a few months the mix will be Orijen Six Fish, NV Instinct Rabbit LID, and NV Prairie Duck & Oatmeal. Both supplemented with the occasional topper of Orijen Tundra freeze-dried. LID Rabbit doesn’t have turkey, which is in the Duck & Oatmeal formula, so Turkey’s on the menu all year, too. Protein content of these blends is 33%.

The Prairie kibble’s mixed in to lower my cost from $3/lb to $2.75/lb, which adds up with a large breed. Rabbit is in the mix year-round, because I read some research (I’ll post the links if I find them again) about how wild/feral canines/felines primarily eat bunnies. The missing “meat group” in the prepared foods is rodent, so I’ll also occasionally feed raw beaver meat as a topper. I’d like to add a third brand into the mix instead of the Prairie, unfortunately I haven’t found anything that doesn’t have either the “wrong” grains or is loaded with potato (a no-no for malamutes as white potato is known to trigger bloat in this breed), or is too expensive to serve the purpose.

I set up another spreadsheet for amino acids and did yet more research; I believe she’s getting the full spectrum in sufficient quantities from all the different protein sources (also gets Orijen Tundra freeze-dried treats, used these to teach her to swim ‘cuz they float without getting soggy) such that she doesn’t need the glucosamine/chondroitin/taurine supplements typically found in large-breed-specific formulas — her body ought to be able to produce as much of these as she needs provided the proper building blocks (amino acids & cartilage). Her stools, on the “winter blend” anyway, are firm and dry, and not too voluminous or frequent and she seems to be thriving; my Vet is pleased with her physical condition and says her growth rate is right on target.

Many thanks to this site and all who contribute for helping me navigate the dog-food waters, it’s enough to make one’s head explode, but it’s also nice to have so many quality options in dry kibble. It’s been several years since I’ve had a dog (Amiga’s my 4th), Iams and even Purina just aren’t what they once were so I didn’t even consider those despite two of my dogs living to 15 (Keeshond on Eukanuba and Golden Retriever on Hi-Pro). My last malamute got Iams Lamb & Rice, but was shot (with cause) by a sheep rancher at 3 1/2 back in ’94 so I have no long-term report, there.

What got me to not trust dogfood manufacturers and do this research, leading me here, was how horrific the first month was feeding Amiga just the Nutro. Glossy, semi-soft, mucousy stools (if not diarrhea) and lotsa smelly farts — just like my friends’ dogs being fed Nutro. Enzymes, pre- and pro- biotics didn’t help, de-worming only cleared up the worms. No surprise given the ridiculously-high Zinc content in Nutro formulas, apparently since Mars bought them out — these are symptoms of Zinc toxicity, not poor digestive-tract health; no band-aid for that. Wish I’d figured that out sooner, and the calcium-level thing.

If I had the puppy-food phase to do over again, I wouldn’t touch Nutro with a 10-foot pole. These problems lessened when blended with the other kibbles, and disappeared entirely (OK, occasional fart still, probably the grains) this month after discontinuing the Nutro. I would do the four-kibble mix again, going with just the Rabbit and Duck would be lower calcium, but would also lack the glucosamine/chondroitin/taurine supplements the two LBP kibbles contain, as well as the cartilage and broad spectrum of amino acids which make these supplements unnecessary.

I did rush her to the vet after-hours back in September for bloat, but I didn’t alter her diet because of it. Sometimes she eats stuff that isn’t “on the menu” so to speak, mostly I blame my kitties because they love hunting and killing — just not eating their kills, which they leave for the alley cats. And for Amiga, sometimes she finds these before I do and accounts for occasional fur/feathers in her stools (Amiga’s also killed a mourning dove, robin, grackle, and a magpie). At least they’ve learned not to bring them in the house! I’m following all the best-practice guidelines for avoiding bloat, so hopefully this was a one-time thing, scary for both of us…

[sherrie]

I have a 11 month old pit bull/rottweiler mix,
I have been feeding him Blue Life Protection Large Breed dry puppy food for about 6 months. I had to change his food 3 times (Purina Focus, Bill Jack & Blue) due to excessive, horrible gas. I have also agreed Forti Flora to his food to no avail. Friends have told me to put him on Purina. Knowing all of the horrible “stuff” in some foods I am hesitant and do not want to put my baby on something bad. He has a beautiful coat and id like to keep it that way. Good dog food
for an extremely gassy dog?

[Akari_32]

Have some awesome $5.15 off any Purina food, any size, as well as that free any Purina 4 lb bag, and then got a $25 gift card for Pet Supermarket for Christmas. I plan on hitting WalMart for the One BeyOnd, and Pet Supermarket for wellness. However, for the Wellness, they don’t seem to carry the CORE Puppy! This is just looking online, however, and their website sucks, but just in case they really don’t have it, I need a back up. As far as grain free goes, the site shows

-CORE Small Breed
-CORE Wild Game
-CORE Large Breed
-CORE Original
-CORE Ocean Fish
-CORE Reduced Fat
-Simple Turkey and Potato
-Simple Salmon and Potato

[alicia9265]

Merry Christmas! I have a 4.5 year old spayed German Shorthaired Pointer named Sadie. She is a super sweet, hunting and retrieving machine. However, due to “dad”’s busy job, she can’t be brought out as much as she once was as a puppy. She also has to stay closer to the house now (not run as freely) as she was eating some stray cat food in a neighbor’s yard AND grabbed a pheasant as the neighbor was watching them feed. We were always feeding her Purina Dog Chow – for 4 whole years. She started having urinary incontinence. She gained weight at about 3 to 4 years old. (I don’t know her current weight but she’s a big statured female and it has to be around 70 pounds.) About 4 months ago, I stumbled across dogfoodadvisor.com and was appalled about the dog food I was feeding the dogs and switched immediately to Taste of the Wild. Her urinary incontinence has decreased by probably 90%. She’s not totally healed of it but it’s remarkable the difference it’s made. However, she’s still a bit chunky. Now I know that we need to start playing with her outside more, playing fetch, going for walks (despite it feeling like -40 here in MN this morning)… Also food portion control. But I would like to get some suggestions of food with less fat and maybe more protein? And grain free! We love Taste of the Wild but now that she seems healthier, I want to look at the protein/fat/etc percentages to figure out if another 4 or 5 star rated dog food (listed on this website) would be a better choice. Anyone have any success with a certain brand to help with weight loss of a larger breed dog (while also limiting food and exercising her more)? Thank you!

[theBCnut]

Remember that those are higher calorie foods so he should need less of them than he did of Pedigree. If he is eating around 3 cups a day don’t worry. It’s good to let a large breed pup grow up thin so they don’t have extra stress on their hips. Large breed pups have special needs when it comes to food. Too much calcium can make their bones grow too fast so their joints don’t form properly. Here is a list of foods that Hound Dog Mom put together that have the right amount of calcium for large breed pups.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v
There is also a thread discussing large breed puppy nutrition issues under Diet and Health Issues.

[theBCnut]

Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast has no chicken and neither does Coastal Catch. You can definitely use All Life Stages foods for your pup. At his age, you are probably just fine no longer worrying about calcium levels. Sometime around 8 months is when large breed puppies are supposed to gain the ability to regulate calcium uptake.

[charliegn]

Any suggestions for large breed puppy food that has no chicken? Most of the ones on the list are chicken based and looking for something other than that.. lamb is fine. My puppy is almost 10 months old retriever about 60 lbs. is he old enough to transition to adult or all life stage food at this point.. that would be much easier to find a non chicken based appropriate food. We are in Ontario and can’t get all the foods suggested.. our other adult dog is on Acana and doing well.

[theBCnut]

Sometimes you do put a puppy on a diet, but hopefully you will find that just stopping the free feeding and getting on a better diet will cure the problem. Also, some people just look at the size of the tummy and assume a puppy is fat when every rib is still showing, so make sure you are paying attention to the cover over the ribs. As far as not starving her, consider feeding less food at one sitting and feeding 3 or 4 times a day. Go to twice a day somewhere between 4 and 6 months of age.

[lmnordrum]

PattyVaughn just posted about keeping the puppy lean. I will be picking up my 8 week old Giant Schnauzer puppy in two days. Breeder says that the puppy is chunky, and she is feeding Royal Canin puppy food. I’ll be changing that food to Wellness Core Puppy (and will switch gradually if possible, however its likely that puppy is going to like the new food better than the old–the cat even chewed into the Wellness bag to get that kibble.)

Anyways, my puppy is definitely not lean. Do I just work on feeding better food and let her the legs catch up with the belly? Puppies are like babies and you don’t put a baby on a diet. Since the breeder still has a couple of pups she hasn’t been measuring the food: she puts it out in a pan and lets them all go for it for a max of 30 minutes twice a day. I will not be feeding free choice for a set time period.

Whats the word on getting that puppy to slim down without starving her?

[theBCnut]

The amount you feed of any food has to be based on the number of calories the dog needs and the number of calories in the food, so throw out any method of determining amount that does not take into account that some foods have more calories than others. Next, it is very important to keep large and giant breed puppies lean while they are growing, so slim is good as long as he isn’t looking emaciated. The 4 cups plus topper that you are feeding is very close to their recommendation, so I would say you are probably feeding very close to the perfect amount.

So the only question I have for you is:
When are you going to post a picture?

[Duke The Boxer]

No I don’t add any water to the food. Just some omega 3 supplement and the probiotic and enzyme. The thing is he doesn’t throw up immediately. It will be like 1-2 hours later. And it is undigested food. I do have cider vinegar at the house so I will try that.

[theBCnut]

IDK. Does he gulp his food? That’s the most common reason, swallowing a lot of air when they eat too fast makes them feel like they have to regurgitate the food. Does he want to re-eat it immediately? Do you wet his food? And I mean cover the food with water. That can help with the air swallowing, if that’s what it is. Do you add apple cider vinegar to the kibble? 1/2 teaspoon per cup of kibble. If it is acid reflux, that may help, and it definitely helps with digestion in my dogs.

Coconut oil is great, but I don’t know if it would help with that.

[Duke The Boxer]

Thank you. What do you think could be the problem with duke throwing up? A local natural pet store recommended coconut oil in his food. I give him enzymes and probiotics every means so idk

[Duke The Boxer]

patty have you tried this brand or have heard about it? Obviously it is not one of the foods on HDM’s list but some of their formulas looks pretty good. i like how this formula has a good amount of glucosamine in it. please let me know your consideration.
http://www.midamericapetfood.com/victordogfood/joint_health.html

PS
I should also add that Duke is doing good on Coastal Catch but he is still having random regurgitation of his food a couple hours after eating it. It was happening towards the end of the wellness core bag and im still transitioning with the wellness core and the CC. Please if any one if you ladies not just patty can please maybe give their 2 cents to come to some leads for figuring out why he is doing this. he is going to the vet tomorrow to get reweighed for his demodex medicine and i will mention it to the doctor.

[BlueEyedGirl]

Ok – I am not understanding something here Patty (Math was never my strong suit).

The numbers she gave do not in fact match what is on their website (the data on their website is dated July 29, 2011.)

According to the PDF on their site, Calcium is 374.723 per 100kcal while the Phosphorous is 227.364 per 100 kcal.

With the ratios she provided, I understood that to be 3.34/1000kcal but I see now that I misinterpreted that.

What I am puzzled by is why if the Calcium and Phosphorous ratios play such an integral role in feeding these large breeds, is the Now LBP Dry Kibble formula given five stars on the Dog Food review page on this site?

(from the Petcurean NOW Fresh page Food Summary Review on this site)

Now Fresh – Four Stars
The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

Now Fresh Puppy
Now Fresh Adult
Now Fresh Senior
Now Fresh Large Breed Adult
Now Fresh Large Breed Senior
Now Fresh Small Breed All Ages
Now Fresh Large Breed Puppy (5 stars)

Now Fresh Small Breed All Ages was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

[theBCnut]

I’m missing something here. Your numbers don’t make sense. For a large breed puppy, a food needs to have less than 3.5mg/1000kcal. Your numbers are nowhere near that low.

[BlueEyedGirl]

Hi – In case anyone else was curious about any of the Petcurean Large Breed Puppy dry kibble, here is the breakdown for Calcium & Phosphorous per 1000 kcal.

Calcium: 334.908 per 100 kcal

Phosphorus: 235.542 per 100 kcal

I will be adding it to our rotation here! (they unfortunately do not have a large breed puppy formula in their Go! foods)

She also offered directions on how to access the breakdowns per 1000 kcal for all of their formulations on their website.

from their email:
Here is a quick instructional on how to find the nutritional breakdown for each of our recipes on our website:

http://www.petcurean.com > click either “for cats” or “for dogs” > select recipe you would like to view and then click “view recipes” > Select food which you would like to view and then click “more info” > scroll down to the bottom of the page > Click “Guaranteed Analysis” > Click “Download Nutritional Profile”

I hope this helps! Take care and Happy Holidays!

[Duke The Boxer]

Yup and i thought i was overwhelmed when i started to look for the correct puppy food. Hahaha i have a couple that i want to try though orijen,eb, pet pantry, dr tim grain free, and some NV formulas. ugh but there is so many others and so many more that i want to learn about. Also some of the fromm formulas.

[theBCnut]

Duke

If one of their foods made HDMs list and another didn’t, it is because the calcium is too high, so that formula must be lower calorie or something.

[RescueDaneMom]

I’ve used Petcurean with my adult Dane. I prefer the Go! formulas over the Now but I have used both. If it turns out that the calcium is acceptable, it would be a good choice to use in rotation. I think the bag size you use should be determined by how quickly you use the food. As long as you go through the food fairly quickly there is nothing wrong with getting the bigger bags. I rotated food every 4 weeks.

[BlueEyedGirl]

Hello all –

I just left a message for the health and nutrition person at Now Fresh (Petcurean out of British Columbia, Canada).

According to the main site, their Large Breed Puppy rates 5 stars and according to their label, their calcium content is 1.3% and phosphorous is 0.8%. I requested the ratio for 1000 kcal (in a very bumbling way as I did not have the formula with me as I was at the pet store).

It also has the benefits of being grain free/ gluten free/ different protein than the NutriSource Large Puppy she is currently on.

Does anyone here have experience with this brand/formula?

Also, is it better to rotate product with small bags (8lb or less) or larger bags (14-16lbs).

We are all getting into a groove here and the new pup is loving the Nutri Source. We have seen a huge difference in her stools since we switched! Fortunately for us, she did really well so we have pretty much transitioned her straight into the 2nd food already from the Hills Healthy Advantage.

Thank you again for your support for a newbie!

D

[BernerdAd]

Hi sorting through all the good information — I’ve come up with a few questions
1) why did Grain Free Canine Caviar Open Sky make the list but Grain Free Canine Caviar Puppy did not?
2) None of the Blue Buffalo dry products made the list at all – why is that.

Ive created some spread sheets and in particular looked at calcium and there are not major differences? At what point do small percentage points — i.e. the difference between 1.2% and !.5% make a difference – I mean statistically what is the variance in these numbers when a food doesn’t make the list by only a few tenths of a %?

3) While numerical data is great isn’t there any sage wisdom out there for specific large breeds? I have Berners (bernese mountain dogs) – on the main website it says ”

“Bernese Mountain Dog owners feed a range of food from raw diet, homemade diets to commercially prepared kibble. No matter what type of feed, Berner owners seem to agree to feed a high quality food with relatively low protein level, approximately 18 -26% and a moderate fat content, under 16%. High protein/fat feeds (> 28%, >16%) can be ‘too much’ for many Bernese, especially those that are not very active working/performance dogs. Feeding a diet that is too ‘heavy’ in protein has been known to precipitate hotspot outbreaks in some Berners. A diet too high in fat adds unwanted pounds and in some cases causes diarrhea.”

So did one study on large breed puppies looking at critical variables protein levels, calcium etc debunk all the sage wisdom from breeders – some of which specifically notice concerns with high levels of protein over 30%