[CockalierMom]

Hi Atlas,
With your boy’s gut already irritated and inflamed from something in the Instinct, the rice irritated it more. Neither one of my girls can tolerate rice in kibble or when it is double cooked in water and time. As Susan mentioned before, once his gut gets healed he may or may not be able to tolerate rice. When it comes to food issues, it really is a matter of experimenting to see what they can tolerate.

My girls actually do good with the LID Natural Balance foods because of the low fiber, but I knew you did not want the expense so the Nature’s Domain looks like a good option. (If I had a Costco close to me, it is a food I would try). My girl with just the grain intolerance actually eats half Wellness Simple Turkey and half NB Duck and Potato–the fiber in Wellness is a little too high so I cut it with NB.

As far as the Sentinel, I used it all the time 10 years ago with my previous girls and then it was discontinued. When they brought it back 4 years ago, I decided to try it again instead of Heartguard, but after the first dose, their fur became very dull and dry (they are both black cockers). Our vet mentioned how bad their coats looked and wanted to know what I had changed and it turned out to be due to the Sentinel. I found this out when I took them off of it for the winter, and the shine returned to their coats. I did try giving another dose a few months later, and the same thing happened so it obviously did not agree with either one. I know there are a lot of people who use it without any problems at all. My best advise is if you want to try it just watch for reactions like you have done with the Revolution. After what I have been through with these girls with food problems, I limit as much exposure to heartworm and flea products as possible–I do not use any more than what is necessary. I keep my yard sprayed with Wondercide so they are not exposed to a lot of fleas, ticks, and mosquitos. You just need to use your judgement as to what is necessary in your environment. When you are dealing with a food issue, it is easier when you do not have other sources that may be contributing factors.

Keep us updated if you get a chance.

[Atlas T]

Quick update before I respond to specific posts: As of yesterday morning, I stopped the Nature’s Balance Puppy Chicken and Pea, and started mixing 1 cup of a new food into his chicken and potatoes two times a day. It’s the Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Sweet Potato & Fish. So far his poop is staying nice and solid, so fingers crossed! The only reason I tried this food instead of what folks recommended is that I had a small bag of it sitting in the garage, so I figured it’s worth a shot before I buy other foods. However, I could not sustain giving him this food long term, it’s SO expensive! It also seems to comply with most of Susan’s recommendations – no garbanzos, lentils, etc., fairly low fiber and fat, etc.
————————————————————-
Susan,
Your info is so helpful, thanks so much. As you suggested, I will try the Nature Domain Turkey & Sweet Potato next, I think.
Please forgive me but I have a few more questions:
-you mention the 6 month mark, so does that mean that sometimes those sensitivities go away and in the future I may be able to feed him foods that he can’t currently have?
-I thought the metro was an antibiotic for bacterial infections, right? So why do you think it would help to put him back on that if it’s just a sensitivity? And should I do it regardless, or should I only do it if his poop goes back to really soft once I start incorporating the turkey kibble?
Thanks again for the help and thanks for all you do at the pound!!
_____________________________________________________
Cockalier Mom,
Thanks for chiming in as well! I hear you on the Instinct kibble, but if that was it, then I wonder why his poop would’ve gotten worse on a bland chicken and rice diet, and why when I started incorporating Nature’s Domain Puppy, it would’ve gotten worse?

Thanks for the tips on the flea stuff. Do you think Sentinel (Oral) would be better since it addresses fleas and heartworm? Or maybe do pet armour for fleas and an oral heartworm preventative?

Thanks again for everyone’s help!

[CockalierMom]

Hi Atlas,
I agree with Susan about trying the Nature Domain Turkey and Sweet Potato. In my experience with food issues over the past few years, your boy is sensitive to something in the Instinct kibble, whether it was too much protein, fat, fiber or grains, but not the chicken. My other girl (not my allergy girl) had soft poos as a puppy like you are describing until I put her on grain free. I have noticed even on grain free she needs a lower fiber food (4% or under) or she starts going more frequently and it gets softer. We also have to stay away from chickpeas–green peas are fine.

Your comment about the diarrhea coinciding with the Revolution is an important point-trust your instinct. Even though it is a topical, it still gets absorbed into the bloodstream (and the gut). You may want to try using just a plain heartworm preventative like Heartguard without any additives for worms and parasites. If possible, try a plain flea product, like Advantage, without anything for ticks. (I found that I only need to use it every other month to control fleas during the warm months.) This all depends on your environment what you can limit, but I would look at options other than Revolution until you get your boy’s gut healed. The ingredients in Revolution could be part of the cause of the sensitivities, or a side effect since the gut is not healthy.

[anonymous]

Forgot to mention that an acquaintance of mine adopted an adult lab mix a couple of years ago, the dog came from a shelter down south. Initially the dog tested negative for heartworm, when he went in for a routine heartworm check a few months later he was positive, vet said sometimes it can take a few months to show up.
Anyway, the dog got the complete heartworm treatment…..I think it went on for quite a while, with the follow up and all.
The only side effects noted from the heartworm treatment were lethargy, dog appeared tired and slept more, and occasional loose stools.
Other than that, all went well. The dog has no other issues now, eats a variety of foods and a Purina kibble as a base.
Well, he’s slightly overweight because the owner shares his food with him The dog was thin when he got him.
His vet and I have told him, less food and more walks 🙂
Hope this helps.

[anonymous]

“I’m not doing research on anything. We have a great vet and do what she says. She said no heartworm treatment until the giardia is gone. It’s a little complicated in that the heartworm treatments are coming from the vet at the rescue (we dont pay so we’re going back there), but they can talk as needed. She’s a Texas A&M vet which is the only school I’d take my pets to. A&M is the best for veterinary schools, at least in this area”

“She said Synacore was the best bc it has more than just probiotics in it. Potatoes were not given as an option for her diet right now, only chicken, white rice, pumpkin, goats milk until Monday. We’re closely following her guidelines, so while I appreciate other advice, we won’t be following it if it contradicts what the vet says.”

“The vet didnt seem to think it was hard to treat at all- she said normally the dewormer alone works but we dont want to wait any longer and have her lose more weight so she added the antibiotic today anyway. She does do 5 days of dewormer instead of the recommended 3 so maybe that’s the difference?”

@ Therese M

YAY! EXACTLY! Go by what the vet advises, no one else! Myself included, lol
Sometimes I have to stop reading these type of forums for a while because I cringe at some of the advice being doled out. My vet rolled his eyes when I mentioned online pet forums.
PS: I have heard of the wormer being given 5 days vs 3, vet wants to be sure it works.
Lucy is on the road to recovery! I detect a positive vibe. And don’t think she isn’t aware of all the care you are giving her, it will aid in her overcoming her ailments 🙂

[Therese M]

I’m not doing research on anything. We have a great vet and do what she says. She said no heartworm treatment until the giardia is gone. It’s a little complicated in that the heartworm treatments are coming from the vet at the rescue (we dont pay so we’re going back there), but they can talk as needed. She’s a Texas A&M vet which is the only school I’d take my pets to. A&M is the best for veterinary schools, at least in this area. The vet recommended Synacore probiotic which we have and have been using for a week now. She said Synacore was the best bc it has more than just probiotics in it. Potatoes were not given as an option for her diet right now, only chicken, white rice, pumpkin, goats milk until Monday. We’re closely following her guidelines, so while I appreciate other advice, we won’t be following it if it contradicts what the vet says. Last time we were in we got Hill’s ID and she refused to eat it. I dont blame her it looked disgusting. We returned the rest while we were in today. The vet didnt seem to think it was hard to treat at all- she said normally the dewormer alone works but we dont want to wait any longer and have her lose more weight so she added the antibiotic today anyway. She does do 5 days of dewormer instead of the recommended 3 so maybe that’s the difference?

[Susan]

Hi Therese,
I would be doing research on treating Giardia & research treating Heartworm, I would treat & get rid of Lucy’s Giarda first then wait 1 month re test poo’s to make sure the Giardia is all gone, if not you’ll need to do another round of Panacur C to kill the Giardia & a round of Metronidazole to kill any bad bacteria in stomach & bowel, then when the Giardia is all gone wait a month again make sure her poos have firmed up & stay firm everyday then re test her poo’s again to see if the Giardia has gone…. Is her vet a good vet, is he treating her Giardia? some vets become attached to their patients & are really good, if you feel her vet isn’t really good look for another vet in the area, a busy vet practice normally have very good vets….

Lucy is in a bad way & needs to heal her stomach & bowel first to become healthy enough to handle the Heartworm treatment….
70% of our immune system is in the gut, a healthy gut is a healthy dog….
once all her antibotic treatment is finished for the Giardia & her Giardia has gone then start giving Purina “Forti Floria:” probiotic, a few dog probiotics were tested & “Forti Floria” had live cultures & came 1st best dog probiotic, you can give probiotic 3 hours before you give antibiotics or 3 hours after you’ve given antibiotics….or just wait till course of antibiotics is finished, Probiotics help stop diarrhea, until the Giardia is treated she’ll have diarrhea..
With the boiled rice buy the short grain rice, it’s a short fat grain rice with rounded corners or there’s long grain rice it’s long skinny rice with pointy corners. Hills use the short grain rice in their I/d Intestinal Health wet canned vet formula’s, you have to over boil the rice so the rice swells & it’s gluggy & there’s no sharp corner’s on the rice like the long grain rice has…..cause her bowel is irritated from having Giardia & diarrhea at the moment boiled rice can irritate her bowel more causing more diarrhea, this happened with my boy, but she might be OK with boiled rice, some dogs are but if she’s not then try boiled potatoes instead like I’ve suggested in my first post…..
Crazy4Cats has dealt & with Giardia & it’s hard to get rid of….

[Therese M]

Panacur granules for 5 days not the typical 3 plus metronidazole for 2 weeks (apparently this stuff tastes HORRIFIC. I had to throw her chicken only diet out the window and hide it in a huge chunk of ham before she ate it. My husband has had it and says even if you swallow fast it’s the grossest thing he’s ever tasted).

The vet said we could do the panacur through saturday and if she wasnt better add the antibiotic but bc she was just on the last antibiotic she wants her cleared out completely. Bumped the goats milk up to 1 cup a day and approved my probiotic on top of that. Said keep the probiotic through the heartworm treatment which is now on hold bc of this.

She was lethargic before- I assumed she felt crappy from the antibiotic and the vet wasn’t concerned. Now she’s fully awful. She fell asleep during the vet appt and in the car on the way home. She ate almost a whole chicken (YAY) and is asleep again. She normally stirs when I walk by but right now shes fully out.

Shes a hard one for sure but I cant imagine her being anywhere else but with us. She’ll get better. Right now it’s hard explaining to the kids how awful she feels. They’re not old enough to really get it. Hopefully by monday shes turned around and I can go back to the food discussion. :-/

[anonymous]

Glad to hear that something worked!
As far as other medical problems, don’t go there. I am sure your vet will bring it up if additional tests are needed. Once a year for an annual checkup and labs, heartworm check is more than enough.
There is concern for over diagnosis http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=overdiagnosis
or even worse “Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy” it can occur with pets, veterinarians keep their eyes open for it.

Focus on getting her well nourished and settled in her new home so she can tolerate the heartworm treatment. That is enough to worry about for now.

[Jill T]

Hi! Just wondering if they have checked the dog for pancreatitis and have done any bloodwork? Also has anyone checked the dog for intestinal parasites? Since we are positive for heartworm, which is a very expensive, and long, drawn out treatment, it would not surprise me if we are positive for giardia, roundworms, hookworms, tapeworm, or any other intestinal parasite. Bland diet is the best choice for her right now, such as boiled, skinless, boneless chicken and white rice. If she has pancreatitis it my take a couple days for her to want to eat. The pancreas needs to rest, and if she does have it Caesar’s and Mighty dog are high in fat, which is the worst thing you can give your dog with pancreatitis. I’ve worked with animals for 15 years and have a dog prone to pancreatitis. She will always have to be on a low fat diet for the rest of her life. Her only treats she is able to have with no issues is pieces of her regular diet or it sends her into a bout of pancreatitis. Good luck with your dog and I really hope she recovers from this. If she is this nauseous from the antibiotics, I would sincerely hope the veterinarian would recommend changing it to something else. Hope this helps a little.

[pitlove]

Hi Therese-

My Lab was being weird about food recently and I found that he really like any of the Hill’s Science Diet stew canned foods they just came out with not too long ago. They come in larger cans, but are not very cheap. Still might be an option for you though.

Best of luck with your pup. I hope she feels better soon and makes a full recovery from her heartworms.

[Therese M]

The vet knows the antibiotics are making her nauseous. She gave us a couple anti nausea pills when we were there. She basically said she weighs enough that just waiting out the antibiotics is okay- I guess for heartworms one antibiotic is the best and that’s what she’s on?

We did the rotisserie chicken and she did eat it, I was just worried about all the salt. If we start mixing things she won’t touch it so I dont think we can mix in the prescription stuff. If we mix with dry food she picks out the good stuff, if we mix with wet she won’t touch any of it. The vet said return that if she isn’t eating it so we will. Vet suggested we try Fromms which she wouldnt touch so I took it back. I’ll get mighty dogs- I know I saw that at target. We only have one tray of cesars left so I need to get more of something today anyway. 🙂

[anonymous]

PS: Most likely the Heartworm Disease and the stress of being in a shelter and a new home are her main problems, if she makes it through the next 3 months, you will see a much different dog in 6 months.
Don’t expect too much now. She is sick. See what the vet advises, talk to the shelter.
Good luck

Oh, I almost forgot, for some reason dogs like Mighty Dog, it comes in small cans so there is less waste. You can find it at your local supermarket.
I had a dog that was having a rough recovery from dental surgery and Mighty Dog was the only thing he would eat. Vet said it was fine. Actually he thrived on it for a few years afterwards as a senior. Some of them have bacon flavors, yum.

[anonymous]

Try boiling some chicken, chop it up, mix it with the dry food and pour water or the chicken water over it. She needs to stay hydrated. Maybe a little boiled white rice mixed in too.
Don’t keep adding all kinds of stuff or supplements, it will only make her more nauseous.
Keep it plain and simple, only give what the vet has ordered. Don’t leave food down, but offer her small meals with water added frequently.
This dog has been through a lot, heartworm treatment is hard, she still has a way to go.
She may have diarrhea when she is going through the treatment, but you have no choice, the heartworm treatment is crucial and needs to be done ASAP, it is a priority.
I assume the shelter is paying for it.

You said this is your first dog, this may not be a good match considering the dog’s medical issues and ongoing care she will need.
If you are not up for it, if your gut tells you it won’t work, talk to the shelter NOW.
There are experienced pet owners that will be better able to take care of her.
If you return her to the shelter, they will most likely place her with a foster while she recovers.
Take a break, and next time get a dog that is doing well, and is younger.

If you decide to keep her, work closely with your vet, ask if she’s dehydrated? Sometimes they need subq fluids once or twice to get them over the hump.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

[PATTI L]

Hi Therese M
I think that is very unfair of the rescue , on the dogs health and on you, her new owners ,
Any dog should be 100% fit & healthy for their new home before a rescue lets them go.
The treatment for heartworm will be very taxing on her system and difficult for you to deal
with as well as her not eating food issues,
I think the rescue should take her back into their care until she has full health back.
Best wishes

[Susan]

Hi Therese,
sounds like she has stomach or panreatitis problems & the cesars food probably doesn’t upset her stomach any cause any pain or whatever she is having, I would NOT start any treatment for her heartworm yet, it will kill her, vet needs to work out what’s wrong with her stomach first & why she is hesitant to eat, something is wrong, Golden Labradors LOVE their food….
I got a rescue 5yrs ago & he was the same in very bad condition, but he was the opposite & ate everything in site, even cat poo, after vomiting weekly, doing bloody diarrhea, sloppy poo’s, acid reflux, up thru the night with rumbling, grumbling bowel noises, in the end I asked the vet can we do Endoscope + Biopsies, vet put camera down his throat into the stomach & did 2 Biopsies, you need the biopsies cause when the vet looked into Patches stomach everything looked excellent, there was no stomach ulcers like we thought, but what I thought he had, he had, waiting & waiting for biopsy results Patch had the Helicobacter-Pylori & IBD, he was put on triple therapy meds for 21 days, Metronidazole, Amoxiccilin to kill the bad bacteria that lives in the stomach walls & Prilosec for the acid reflux the Helicobacter causes, Patch did real well while taken the triple therapy meds then once the 21 day course finished it all came back again within 1 week of stopping the meds, it was a nightmare in the end now Patch takes 20mg Prilosec every morning & only takes the Metronidazole 200mg for 10-14 days when needed, if he’s doing sloppy poos or diarrhea, starts feeling sick everyday & whinging for me to rub his stomach/pancreas area & is eating & eating grass…

Can you ask the rescue group do they have some money in their budget for her to see a Gastro specialist or a vet that knows about stomach/bowel problems, in Australia the rescue groups post picture of the very sick dog & asks for help on their face book page & raise some money so dog can be treated by vet & do the Endoscope + Biopsies need to shop around cause there’s cheaper vets around that do Endoscope & Biopsies, people will help with donations…..
I wanted to do the same give Patch back to rescue group so he got another foster carer, he broke my heart, I couldn’t give him back cause I thought will the new foster carer care for him like I do or will he just be thrown out the back yard again & suffer & the rescue group puts dog up for adoption & someone else gets stuck with the problem hoping they will pay all the vet bills, Patch was weeing blood the day I got him from teh pound, the rescue group had to paid $1,500 for 2x ultrascan, desexing, vacination, vet diet wet & dry food the dissolve his crystals, medications, at that stage he just had Urinary crystal, the rescue vet said he must of gotten infection from being used to breed, I thought everything was done all fixed, he’s all healthy now & I adopted him but it was just the beginning of my sleepless nights the vet office I ended up staying with felt sorry for Patch & me for adopting a sick 4yr old Staffy + all the vet nurses were Staffy lovers & my bet did alot of discount rates & now my vet writes out repeats for his prescriptions so I can get his meds from a chemist it was costing $120 for 1 month of Prilosec, now all I pay is $8 & the Metronidazole only cost $7 when I need it I keep spare in cupboard….

I would be only feeding low fat wet food, nothing over 3% in fat, the fat & protein & isnt like it is in a dry kibble, wet raw & cooked hasnt been converted to dry matter (Kibble) yet, Do NOT feed any more dry kibble, it must make whatever she has, worse, like my boy the kibble made him worse with his IBD (Stomach) in the beginning till we worked out what was wrong & I found a kibble that works for him.
Read what is the fat % in the Cesars wet food??? also start boiling potato or boil sweet potato whatever firms her poos up best & start adding say 2-3 cesars foil tin & the same amount boiled mash potato do not add any butter or mil to the mashed potato & mix potato all thru with the Cesars food, maybe start off with only 1/2 mashed potato with her food cause she may not trust the potato yet, whatever she has got, has cause her alot of pain & she doesn’t trust food no more… I have to go the Pet Shop it’s closing, I have to pick up something, look what are the ingredients & fat % in these Cesars foods she etas & post, stop trying all type of foods for now, I’ll try & find a similair food to the Cesars same ingredients once you post, that is in a bigger tin size & low in fat, maybe someone else knows of a lower fat wet tin food similair to Cesars food….
Do you shop at “Costco” ?? Costco has their “Kirklands Signature” Nature Domain wet tin & its cheap & looks pretty good, click on “Reviews” look for Kirkland, Signature Nature Domain canned foods & click on link & scroll down a bit & there’s a photo of Turkey & Pea stew looks good & you can mash with boiled Potato this will work out cheaper till vet works out whats wrong, also ask the vet can you try a 21 day course of Metronidazole?? take back the vet diet food she won’t eat for refund & ask can you try 2 tins of the Hills I/d Canine Chicken & Vegetables Stew, Digestive Care wet tin food, do not get the Hills I/d Low Fat, Rice, Vegetables Chicken stew Restore, they look similair, the I/d Low fat Restore wet tin is full of rice & fish oil, the I/d canine Chicken & vegetable Stew Digestive Care has less ingredients & has more chucks of meat no fish oil, fish oil can make them feel sick, see if after being taking the 21 day course of Metronidazole if she starts to get better after 4-5th day, it has to be taken with a meal every 12 hours…
What is her name??

[Therese M]

We got our 3 yo golden mix from a rescue 3 weeks ago. They got her from shelter a week before we got her so no real history. She’s heartworm positive and almost done with her 30 days of antibiotics. She was 5 lbs underweight when we got her and has lost another 1 lb since then. She’ll start heartworm treatment soon and I understand she’ll likely be very ill and lose weight from that so we’re very concerned.

Pretty much from the beginning she refused food. We fed her what they gave her (Muenster dry, pro plan chicken and rice wet). Wouldn’t touch it. Tried each separately, no go. Tried tuna, chicken toppers, nothing. We’ve rotated through at least 10 dry foods and 20 canned foods. We took her back to the rescue and they tried a bunch of stuff on her. Of 7 dry and 6 wet, the only thing she ate for them, and has consistently eaten for us is Cesars trays. I’ve been trying desperately to get her to eat anything better than that but nothing else will work. I’ve tried everything form Fromms to Weruva to Bil Jac picky eater. Nothing works. I’ve mixed in pumpkin (plain and fruitables), raw goats milk, broth, nothing works. Homemade chicken and rice, ground beef, oats, green beans, eggs, cottage cheese. We took her to the vet earlier this week for vomiting and diarrhea. The vet gave us some prescription food, which she refused to eat, and some antinausea pills which stopped the puking but hasn’t helped her appetite. Said otherwise shes great. My husband is starting to wonder if we’re capable of dealing with her, and I’m not far behind him. We throw out $6-8 of food every day bc she just wont touch it. Is there anything left to try? We’re trying to stay on the high quality foods but at this point I could care less what it is if itll get her to eat. For her weight she should be eating 16 trays of Cesars a day- she eats at most 2. She eats less than 1/3 what she should every single day, on the days she eats at all. We will do literally anything at this point, so all suggestions are welcome. We live in Dallas so we have access to pretty much everything, we just need to track it down. Thanks for any help you can provide. If you need any more details please be specific- this is our first dog and we’re doing our best but I’m not up on lingo just yet, or what might be important that I’m leaving out.

[anonymous]

If the pup has a flea allergy, they are so sensitive, one bite and all hell breaks loose.
The topical is fine, just keep your wife away from handling him for 48 hours, then you can bathe him in a gentle shampoo, then it is okay to touch the area again.
Just remember to treat the environment too, clear out any clutter, wash all bedding in hot water. Professionally clean carpeting.
Ps: Often you will never see the fleas…..
The symptoms you describe are diagnostic. If he has other environmental allergies, time will tell. In the meantime I would try to trust the veterinarian (health care professional that examined him)
You are going to have to start him on flea/tick and heartworm preventatives soon anyway.
The natural solutions are scams, ineffective and a waste of money.
I hope you are not listening to the homeopathic crowd, dangerous stuff.

[anonymous]

Most shelters have an arrangement with a local veterinary clinic to get discount prices for services and products as a courtesy. That is the route I would pursue, as you will need a prescription for heartworm preventives.

Regarding garlic pills:
Do a quick Internet search on natural ways to prevent fleas and ticks and you’ll come up with thousands of links. You could spend all day researching these home remedies. The problem: As much as we love using natural solutions when they work, many simply aren’t effective at controlling parasites. In some cases these ‘remedies’ can cause more harm than good for your pet.
So before you add chopped up garlic to your animal’s food or bathe her in essential oils, check out our quick list of home remedies to avoid.
Parasite Prevention and Removal Remedies That Don’t Work
Bad Idea: Putting Garlic in Pet Food
Even though a lot of people think this a safe and effective way to prevent fleas, there’s no scientific evidence that garlic — whether it’s fresh from the bulb, powdered or in a supplement — can keep the parasites at bay. Even worse, garlic can be toxic to pets. Garlic contains substances that damage red blood cells in dogs in cats, potentially leading to life-threatening anemia if ingested in large quantities. (excerpt from:)http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-experts/home-remedies-that-will-not-get-rid-of-fleas-and-ticks-and-may-hurt-your-pet

[Michael M]

It’s hard to find a relatively heartworm medication these days. Bravecto, Trifexis, and NExguard have all caused major problems among their test subjects as well as just normal owners. I’ve even read they cause seizures. On the other hand, I’ve read that Sentinel is decent, and there are also these garlic pills you can buy. Might want to try that out as a cheaper option.

I’ve heard good things about Happy Pet Labs. Glad to know they’ve worked for you as well.

[Scott Sheffield]

Hi all, I work for a pet shelter and, as summer comes around, a lot of our pets – especially rescues – start to get fleas. This humid weather out here in Georgia is the worst, isn’t it? Anyway, I recently purchased some Generic Capstar (Nitenpyram) from Happy Pet Labs.

I was honestly really happy with the order, since we’re trying to spend less. We got 30 capsules for about $14.99, but since they work so well we’re thinking about buying the 100 capsule count. We bought from them mainly since they’re sponsored by the ASPCA and they gave us a discount since we’re a no-kill shelter.

Anyway, I don’t usually make posts like this but I really feel like we should support small businesses who are just trying to help rescues like us out.

Do you guys know of where we can get tick and heartworm medication that works just as well and is generic/low cost? I’d really appreciate it!

[Soph M]

Hey! Have any of you given your dog milk thistle for a week following Heartworm medication? I heard that it is good for helping to detox chemicals from the liver.

[Cameron M]

Hi Emily,

I asm so sorry to hear about your dog’s problems! My little cocker spaniel gal (Coco) had Lyme markers present her last heartworm/lyme test last spring. I freaked out and studied up.

Here is the deal…studies claim that 90% of dogs infected with lyme do not present symptoms…in other words their bodies seem to handle the disease with no harm done. Now I caution this may not mean no harm done in the LONG TERM…you know…5-10 years out but it is encouraging nontheless.

Unfortunately the remaining 5-10% of the study dogs did have severe symptoms…lameness is definitely one of the symptoms!! And it comes on fairly quickly from what I read.

Kidney problems are also a major symptom of Lyme!!

Even though Coco appears to fall into the 90% of dogs with no symptoms I was not going to chance damage showing up years later ..here is the deal. My vet flat out said Lyme is a sneaky hider…think chickenpox then 40 years later you get shingles because the virus was “hidden” in the body still.

With Lyme bacteria you NEED to place the dog on antibiotics for at least a MONTH…the vet said two months is better and if your dog can handle it maybe even three months!!

Doxycycline is is perfferred choice. I put Coco on it for almost three months..she handled it just fine ( Ordered the pills through Allivet…much cheaper than other places. I hope I squeezed all the bacteria out..she is due for another test soon and I’ll report back.

Bottomline: As others have said to you…yes..organic is great…yep..I love homopathic when called for BUT your dog is showing severe symptoms…kidney and lameness. Do not mess around with this or you will damage your beloved dog. Get expert and aggressive vet advice..and hey..before going broke on tests and scans try the antibotic therapy 1st. Very little risk and if it doesn’t work you can always do the scans for other genetic laminess issues ( bad hips as mentioned above) that type issue usually can wait a few months and still be fixed. Destroyed kidneys from lyme can’t be fixed..so attack the life threatening stuff..

best of LUCK!! Please keep us posted Emily!

Cameron

[InkedMarie]

I do more natural than conventional but I’m not willing to risk heartworm. I’m in NH, I do Interceptor every 45 days from March/April to October/November.

[Soph M]

Thank you so much for all of your advice! I actually volunteer at a local vet clinic and they have had 2 patients diagnosed with Heartworm this year. Considering this, I think that I will continue to use the HeartGard Plus. Thanks for all your help!

[pitlove]

A local shelter is likely going to see more cases of heartworms than a vet. About 95% of the dogs that came in or were already at the shelter I volunteered at were positive.

[Susan]

Hi, I do not use any Heartworm meds or flea meds, I do live Australia & have hot Summers we do get mozzie’s after the rains in Summer but Patch is an indoor dog & doesn’t sleep outdoors, chances of an infected mosquito biting him is very slim, Patches vet hasn’t seen any heartworm cases in my area in 26yrs…she doesn’t seem concerned that Patch isn’t heartworm……Contact your local vets & ask has there been any resent cases of heartworm in your area??…..

[Marie P]

I don’t use the Natural products as of yet for Heartworm prevention. WE find Heartgard to be the safer of the evils;
For Heartworm treatment, Talk to your Vet about other options.
Trifexis is NOT the only heartworm treatment they offer.

Ask about simple Heartgard Plus
( It’s still a POISON but safer than many of the New ones that popped onto the Market )
Buy this from your VET.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by Marie P.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by Marie P.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by Marie P.

[pitlove]

For me personally, I prefer to use a heartworm prevention that only contains the ingredient that kills off the heartworm (Ivermectin, Moxidectin etc). I also give flea and heartworm meds separately.

But considering I live in the South and we haven’t had a real winter in a few years down here, I do heartworm prevention all year round. I know some don’t, who live in states where there is a real winter. That is something I would talk with your vet about.

[anonymous]

Depends on the area you live in and what the veterinarian who treats your dog prefers.
Btw: It is best to buy heartworm/flea/tick preventives from your vet’s office rather than online, for a bunch of reasons.

[Soph M]

Thank you so much for all of your help and all of the links! I agree that it is best to protect from Heartworm conventionally. Would u guys recommend HeartGard Plus or just HeartGard?

[pitlove]

Hi Soph-

I understand that it has become a growing trend to try to attempt to do everything naturally with ourselves and our pets. What I think folks whos goal it is to go towards a more natural approach forget is that some things are necessary evils. Heartworm prevention is one of those things. I am unaware at this time of any “natural” non-chemical means to kill off adult heartworms or microfilaria. And I don’t know if you have ever seen a dog dying from heartworms, but it is one of the sadest, most heartbreaking sights.

I think just about all of the folks on here who take a more natural approach to their pets health, still use a heartworm prevention pill. That is one thing you do not want to mess around with.

[anonymous]

https://www.heartwormsociety.org. excerpt below, click on link for full article.
True to its mission of leading the veterinary profession and public in understanding heartworm disease, the American Heartworm Society aims to further scientific progress in the study of heartworm disease, while informing its membership of new developments. The Society currently invests hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in heartworm research, both directly and through grants to the Morris Animal Foundation.

[anonymous]

“There is no “Natural” or “Holistic” Heartworm Prevention or Treatment Proven to be Safe and Effective”
Posted on June 30, 2013 by skeptvet (excerpt below, click on link for full article)
Hopes this helps http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2013/06/there-is-no-natural-or-holistic-heartworm-prevention-or-treatment-proven-to-be-safe-and-effective/

If your dog is unfortunate enough to become infected with heartworms, there are effective treatments. The risk of treatment is, however, significantly higher than the risk of prevention, though in most cases still far less than the risk of leaving the disease untreated. The American Heartworm Society (AHS) has a thorough discussion of the pros and cons of different treatment options, and working with your veterinarian you can almost certainly cure this disease and minimize the risks of treatment.
The AHS is also very clear about alternative therapies for this disease: “No “natural” or herbal therapies have been shown to be safe and effective prevention or treatment for heartworm disease.” And fortunately, many proponents of alternative therapies also recognize that no CAM therapies have been shown safe and effective for preventing or treating this disease. The most popular veterinary herbal medicine textbook states, “The authors do not recommend substituting an unproven herbal formula for effective conventional therapy.” Even as radical a proponent of alternative therapies as Dr. Karen Becker at mercola.com grudgingly agrees that,“treatment for heartworm infection is one area where conventional veterinary medicine offers valuable options [and] is preferable to leaving the dog untreated, or using unproven, alternative methods that may have no effect or even be harmful.”
Unfortunately, there are still plenty of unscrupulous companies, and sadly even veterinarians, willing to exaggerate the risks of conventional prevention and treatment and claim that unproven alternatives are safe and effective. Below is a long list of sites promoting unproven methods of preventing or treating heartworm disease. None of these have been demonstrated to be legitimate or reliable, and trusting your dog’s life to any of them is a dangerous mistake.
http://www.theherbsplace.com/Heartworm_Prevention_sp_104.html
http://www.alternativeheartwormcure.com/index.html
http://www.earthclinic.com/Pets/heartworm.html
http://www.oursimplefarm.com/2012/04/my-dogs-experience-with-heartworms.html#.UcuCIm3n_IU
http://www.unchainyourdog.org/news/NaturalHeartworm.htm
http://www.holisticvetexpert.com/NATURAL-HEARTWORM-TREATMENT.html
http://www.holisticvetclinic.net/pages/heartworm_treatment
http://www.homeovet.net/content/lifestyle/section4.html
http://www.heartwormfree.com/
http://drmark1961.hubpages.com/hub/safe-herbal-heartworm-treatment-for-your-dog
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/heartworm/

[anonymous]

No, I am not aware of any “natural” heartworm or flea/tick preventives that are effective.
Also, if the dog tests positive for heartworm, the treatment that works to save the dog’s life is very harsh. Same with Lyme disease, nasty disease if not caught early.

Some science based information you may find helpful here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=heartworm
Nothing is being sold at that site, no supplements, no books, no miracle cures, no membership fees………

[Soph M]

Hey guys! As some of you know, I feed only homecooked food and treats to my dog. Everything that I give her is all natural. I am hesitant to use chemical Heartworm prevention this year because I hate putting pesticides into her. In the past I have used HeartGard with no problems, but I’m really scared to give it to her after learning about what is in it. Do any of you have any recommendations? Have you guys found any natural preventatives that seem to work?

[anonymous]

Heartgard s for heartworm prevention. What about flea/tick prevention………

[anonymous]

It is not unusual for dogs (certain breeds like labs) to develop benign fatty tumors, I would guess it was more genetic than related to diet. What did your vet say?

Flea/tick/ heartworm prevention is important, discuss what would be best to use with your vet. There is an increase in Lyme disease (humans and dogs) and tick borne disease.

[Marcia]

I couldn’t even get to the end of this thread before I commdnted. I have 4 dogs, all born in 2011. For flea and tick control, I at first used Frontline, but one of my pups started having horrible reactions for up to 12 hours after – I think she was itching or burning, or both. I tried Advantix. Omg so much worse. My other 3 even reacted. My vet recommended Bravecto, so I put them all on it and have noticed no issues. My babies are my heart and I am very attentive to their moods, eating habits, etc. I do not give Bravecto all year round – 2 to 3 doses a year. I live in WI so even though the vet says I should give it year round, I won’t because I want them to have a break from it and the winter months are less risky for fleas/ticks. Same with heartworm meds, I stop in late fall. I have a woodsy backyard which they spend a lot of time in in good weather, and, I run them every other day for a mile and a half at nature reservoir with 3 large ponds – lots of grasses, weeds, reeds, waterfowl, and other wildlife, as well as scat from other dogs that run there. So I want them to be protected. I have never found a flea or a tick on any of them, nor has their groomer. My sister runs her dogs with me, and she has found dead ticks about 3x in 6 years. She uses topical flea and tick control, I believe.

As many of you have said, we all have to choose what we feel is right for our situation and our babies. Factors like geography, general health of our pups, their age, their breed, etc., our own financial and living situations that also factor into these decisions. No 2 people will have the same circumstances.

Being snarky and using thinly veiled insults only produces more of the same, and draws negative energy to yourself. Be kind to each other. We’re all here to help each other and learn from each other because we have infinite love for the creatures who depend upon us. Show some of that compassion and respect to each other.

[Cameron M]

Judy – you ask for the article which stated 44k dogs died due to spot treatment for fleas and ticks. I haven’t had a chance to complete my search to find it again but what I did find was a 2009 Scientific American article which has the below quote:

Most of the problems were minor, such as skin rashes, but about 600 dogs and cats died in the incidents reported in 2008, EPA records show.

So 600 dog and cats in 1 year…ok…my statement of 44k may be a low number huh?

Never use a spot treatment. Use oral it is far better.

I agree that in parts of the nation pet owners can get by with no treatment. I grew up in South Eastern PA and in my little corner of PA I never once saw a flea on my dogs…in fact I really didn’t ever see a flea until I moved to FL ( and so you know…we never sprayed for pests nor treated our dogs for fleas…heartworm yes…fleas no) Likewise in VT there are very few flea BUT there are lots of disease carrying ticks.

Bravecto does kill ticks quickly enough to stop transmission of disease ( per the studies). My dog seems fine on her 1st dose of Bravecto…the earth didn’t open up and swallow her but the fleas did die:)

Again..I caution all..I do not plan to give this drug to my gal year round..instead it is my go to for the bad months here in FL and ticks at our 2nd home in VT…thereafter she goes back on Sentinal and I even give that a break if she is up north when snow is on the ground.
Use your heads people…I can dig up stories of people dropping dead from drinking too much water to quickly. Don’t let the sky is falling folks scare you from reading good science and I encourage everyone to do just that. Research, research and then some more…check out the EPA sites…check out the FDA sites but do not listen to the misquoted gloomand doom posted here.

[Susan]

Hi,
Do you remember Dori she had 3 little white dogs all girls, I think Maltese Terriers,
the eldest girl had a lot of sensitivities & couldn’t take most flea, heartworm meds, Dori also lived in an area where mozzie where bad all year round…Dori found Sentinel Spectrum didn’t cause any side effects, with her 16 yr old sensitive girl..
Google & see does Sentinel Spectrum have the same ingredients as the Heartgard has??
Sentinel is safe to use with puppies from 6 weeks old as well as pregnant & lactating females, Sentinel might use different ingredients to the Heartgard…
Good Luck

[weezerweeks]

My 7lb yorkie is on Heartgard and every month it makes him sick. The smallest dose is up to 25lbs. My vet said just give him half. I am scared because when I rescued him at 2 he had heartworms. That was a nightmare. He’s 9 now and he’s just started getting sick a few days after his Heartgard. I am thinking about switching him to interceptor since they have a dose for 2 to 10 lb dogs. Some of you experts like BCNut and HDM what do you think. Have to give it year round because I live in Ga.

[Becca]

Like I said on another one of my post it did not show up I’ve had three dogs recently two of which were not vaccinated against Lyme and one that was vaccinated against Lyme the one that was vaccinated against lyme got lyme. the other two very furry animals with lots of ticks did not get lyme. My vet is both does both medicines conventional and holistic she will not even sell topical or oral flea treatment she does sell stuff for heartworm but not any topicals or Orals because they’re dangerous to does minimal vaccinations her treatments are based on facts. All of my animals have had reactions to topical and orals.

[anonymous]

I used natural stuff. Within 5 months I had 3 dogs that had previously tested negative for Lyme, test positive. All 3 received the antibiotic protocol as per the treating vet. Two had no symptoms and passed due to unrelated issues years later.
The third one wasn’t so lucky, the Lyme caused kidney damage. So, I spent 2 years doing everything I could to keep her comfortable $$, daily subq fluids, meds, trying to keep uremia at bay.
It was ugly.
So, good luck to the homeopathic believers. I choose science based veterinary medicine.
I would rather risk side effects to heartworm/flea/tick preventatives than to see what Lyme disease can do.
And yes, fleas can cause serious illness and disease.
I have found this site very helpful http://skeptvet.com/Blog/

[Cameron M]

My statements are that I am trying it…never said I loved it and frankly I don’t know if I will use it again. So far so good though.

People come here to try to get facts and make a decision. I need good flea control period. I also love organic but that doesn’t work where I live.

My vet ( who I trust a great deal) suggested Bravecto. Like everyone else here I started to research because no…I don’t like “new” drugs…esp. long acting drugs. As I started to research this my hair almost fell out because of all the hype…seriously…I was taken back.

Then slowly I started sorting through all the junk and came to a conclusion. I gave my gal Bravecto and I will say this to people:

Keep an eye on your dog, give breaks from flea and heart worm meds when you can and most importantly get blood work done esp liver enzymes…if you notice chances immediately suspect that your flea or heartworm meds may be the cause and investigate.

I promise to report back…I am having my gal’s liver enzymes tested mid-way through the 90 period.

Susan and Judy…thank you for your input as well.

[Jane L]

For anybody interested not Cameron who I am not responding to. Here are two articles written by vets and one by a biologist.

As I say I know many vets that warn against and will not sell in many Countries. I have read reports and viewed many necropsies. Yes no conclusive proof as that seems impossible but the EMA review cases and hundreds are listed as probable cause.

So just go on the risk / reward and decide if you think it’s a risk worth taking.

http://vitalanimal.com/bravecto/

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/bravecto-nexgard-simparica-oral-flea-tick-preventives-safe/

http://www.isbravectosafe.com/bravecto-files/501-IS-BRAVECTO-SAFE-ABOUT-BRAVECTO-AND-FLURALANER-THE-WAY-THE-MEDICATION-WORKS.pdf

And here

“All 4 Paws Veterinary Hospital
3 February ·
And this, dear clients, is why we do NOT carry trifexis, comfortis, and bravecto, or simparica or vectra or any other topicals especially hard on cats.
We carry only heartgard or sentinel and nexgard for heartworm, fleas and ticks in dogs
And we recommend Revolution in cats.
Capstar is amazing at helping with severe infestations and is extremely safe.
That’s it.
There’s a large class action lawsuit with trifexis and comfortis also.
We support the products made and extensively safety tested , and safe since 8 weeks old
Bravecto and others are NOT approved until 6 months of age.
When we read the safety literature, we realized we were uncomfortable with the safety data.
Please tell your friends and help people keep their pets safe.
Always remember to buy these products from your veterinarian, not because of the money, but because merial backs its products 100% for a refund or treatment, if there should be any bad side effects.
If you buy them from some diverted pharmacy or 1800petneds, you have zero recourse for treatment costs etc.
That is so important.
Most vets will pricematch anyway.
We do, as we prefer you get a fresh and real , well stored product.”

https://www.facebook.com/All4Pawsvet/

[anonymous]

I like Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea as a base.
https://www.chewy.com/nutrisca-grain-free-salmon-chickpea/dp/35033
Or:
Newman’s Organics https://www.chewy.com/newmans-own-organics-advanced/dp/33521

Add a splash of water and a bite of something, scrambled egg (in water), chopped up cooked lean chicken, beef, tuna….something.
Check out chewys auto ship plan. You could order a large bag every 2 or 3 months. Divide it up and store in air tight containers or bags in the fridg or freezer if you have room.
I wouldn’t go too cheap, you may regret it.
Also, you need to set aside money for an an annual checkup and lab work with a veterinarian.
Heartworm checks, flea and tick preventives. About $1000 a year (maybe less) and that’s not counting food.
Ps: Don’t waste your money on supplements, unless a vet that has examined the dog advises you to do so. Most of them are scams. I do add one fish oil capsule to their food once a day, not sure if it actually does anything 🙂

[anonymous]

You are not a dr. You are not a scientist. Sorry, but it is true, if you are, I apologize, lol.
Even then, health care professionals are advised not to treat their own (pets, family, friends) as they can not be objective.
The best person to advise you regarding heartworm/flea/tick preventives is a veterinarian that you have a good relationship with and that has examined your dog, knows the area you live in and the level of risk involved.
Blanket statements do not work. You can look up medical articles all day long……the information is not specific to your dog.
Find a vet that you trust and listen to him. Good luck

Ps: Once the lab values are off, it is often too late, the damage is done.

[Lora J]

Thank you all for the continued replies with ideas! I have contacted Washington State University about flea control and they said the only topical that has been tested for use on MDR1 dogs is Bravecto. I am going to stop the Parastar topical, and find another method, and I will be trying these natural ideas. Our local Aussie Rescue recommends Sentinel flavortabs for heartworm control in Aussies, so I will probably switch him to that when his Heartgard is gone. I understand from WSU that any heartworm pills on the market are tested and approved for MDR1 dogs, except those with spinosad, which would be Trifexis. Thank you again, and I will keep watching this thread for more information!

[anonymous]

@ Lora J
Whatever method you decide to use for a heartworm/flea/tick/Lyme preventives, I just wanted to stress the importance of routine testing.
“Using a single test, your veterinarian can check for any combination of the following diseases, including all of them: heartworm disease, Lyme disease, ehrlichiosis, and anaplasmosis”.
“SNAP” testing refers to a group of quick, convenient, blood tests that can be performed at your veterinarian’s office. There are various SNAP tests for different purposes:
SNAP Heartworm RT Test—screens for heartworm infection
SNAP 3Dx Test—simultaneously screens for heartworm disease, Lyme disease, and ehrlichiosis
SNAP 4Dx Test—simultaneously screens for heartworm disease, Lyme disease, ehrlichiosis, and anaplasmosis.
above 2 paragraphs are excerpts from: http://www.vetstreet.com/care/heartworm-disease-lyme-disease-ehrlichiosis-anaplasmosis-snap-testing-in-dogs

I once had 3 dogs test negative for Lyme in April, when one showed symptoms in September I had them retested. All 3 were positive for Lyme.
It is important when this happens to start the antibiotic protocol ASAP
Good luck.