[Marcia]

Thanks for the FB info on Nexgard, Susan. I was aware of the Bravecto one, but not Nexgard. I’ve been wondering about that chew, so I’m going to check it out.

[Susan]

Yes Marcia you’re right, there’s 3-4 pages of crap & arguing….
Where is “DOG FOOD ADVISOR” Please remove all the bitching comments & leave up the links “Jane” provided, so when people do come onto DFA to look up Bravecto they can read links & make their own minds up…
People PLEASE realise Bravecto does stay in the dogs system longer then the 3 month period, I posted a post just before all the arguing started & Jane backed it up with links…
In Australia vets are recommending to give Bravecto every 4 months instead of the 3 months & if you do not live in a tick infected area & are using Bravecto for fleas then stop giving Bravecto in the cooler months… They have tested dogs that take Bravecto & the dogs still had fluralaner in their system 143 days later…no further test have been released to the public to my knowledge but I bet the fluralaner stays in the dogs system heaps longer then the 143 days….how you’d know if you stop giving the Bravecto chews, see how long it takes for your dog to get fleas & see when there’s a tick on your dog are they dying or dead. One lady found dead tick 9 months later after she had stopped the Bravecto cause her 4yr old dog became ill….
If you have an elderly dog, dog with health problems or a dog that has seizures or Epilepsy please do your research first before giving any Bravecto chews to your dog, read Janes links..

If people still want to argue their point there are 2 live groups on Face Book one is for Bravecto- “Does Bravecto Kill Dogs?” the other group is for Nexgard- “Does Nexgard kill dogs?”

[Marcia]

I couldn’t even get to the end of this thread before I commdnted. I have 4 dogs, all born in 2011. For flea and tick control, I at first used Frontline, but one of my pups started having horrible reactions for up to 12 hours after – I think she was itching or burning, or both. I tried Advantix. Omg so much worse. My other 3 even reacted. My vet recommended Bravecto, so I put them all on it and have noticed no issues. My babies are my heart and I am very attentive to their moods, eating habits, etc. I do not give Bravecto all year round – 2 to 3 doses a year. I live in WI so even though the vet says I should give it year round, I won’t because I want them to have a break from it and the winter months are less risky for fleas/ticks. Same with heartworm meds, I stop in late fall. I have a woodsy backyard which they spend a lot of time in in good weather, and, I run them every other day for a mile and a half at nature reservoir with 3 large ponds – lots of grasses, weeds, reeds, waterfowl, and other wildlife, as well as scat from other dogs that run there. So I want them to be protected. I have never found a flea or a tick on any of them, nor has their groomer. My sister runs her dogs with me, and she has found dead ticks about 3x in 6 years. She uses topical flea and tick control, I believe.

As many of you have said, we all have to choose what we feel is right for our situation and our babies. Factors like geography, general health of our pups, their age, their breed, etc., our own financial and living situations that also factor into these decisions. No 2 people will have the same circumstances.

Being snarky and using thinly veiled insults only produces more of the same, and draws negative energy to yourself. Be kind to each other. We’re all here to help each other and learn from each other because we have infinite love for the creatures who depend upon us. Show some of that compassion and respect to each other.

[Cameron M]

Likewise to you.

Again…please cite this safety study…i don’t see it. Include links to the study please ..

For now the EU allows and states Bravecto is safe. Are you saying the EU ( or any other country says otherwise??)

Question: Is the EPA…FDA…EU or Australia saying Bravecto is unsafe…if yes we better have the info asap. Please post!!!

If not…

[Susan W]

You just don’t stop. No one ever said every report is a direct result of Bravecto. But you have not written to the ema and read the reports. Lots of details and many and reactions that appear possibly and probably biased by Bravecfo per the NCA. By the exerts that evaluate them. Who then required a targeted safety study be conducted on Bravecto. No other flea and tick medicine.

[Cameron M]

My statement is I agree…yes…it is good to get facts out. The facts helped me decide..yes I am leery …yes I am keeping a watchful eye on my gal..she is great so far. No I am not sold on long term Bravecto…at the same time I am not running for the hills based on conjecture.

My parting shot is reports aren’t facts…the facts will be decided in due time if any agency follows up. For now the reports are just that…reports with I may add have unknown weight or accuracy UNTIL we get the facts.

Until then I suggest caution…use your head but don’t lose it. Weigh risks vs benefits and realize that all medications have draw backs…use any medication sparingly.

Can we agree on this?

[Susan W]

OMG Cameron will you stop with your sales tactics? You state you are educated, yet you call people 300 pound teenagers. You don’t know what the EMA reports are since you call them EMA studies. You quote 44,000 with no proof. You are comparing apples and oranges. 600 in one year from ALL spot ons. But almost 1,000 reported deaths from BRAVECTO alone since it came out just a few years ago. Can you just stop? How long is this going to go on? But the great thing is the more you keep this conversation going, the more people will be driven to the search and will see the numbers and the truth. The EMA has required a targeted safety review due to concerns over the seriousness of adverse events reported for Bravecto – not the topical. Sadly there is no independence in the targeted safety review. It is done by Merck who did the study for approval and has a great history with the truth with some human drugs. Over 36,000 members on the Facebook group called Does Bravecto Kill Dogs. Close to 10,000 members in the Netherlands. Oh, and did you see the news report done by Jim Strickland n in Atlanta? Merck issued a letter to the vets stating that none of the dogs in the report had necropsies – they declined them! Then Jim did a follow up report showing that Merck said this was not correct. Oh, something not true by Merck? They certainly did not disclose to the vets all the necropsies that have been done and how there is no one test that can prove causation. They also did not disclose all the settlement payments that have made with letters requiring non disclosure by the dog owners or that they were not responsible even though they paid. So keep rambling Cameron, you just help bring attention to the issue.

[Becca]

The Doom and Gloom would be watching your pet as he suffers dying from using bravecto I’m sure I’m not alone in making sure I never use this .

[Cameron M]

Judy – you ask for the article which stated 44k dogs died due to spot treatment for fleas and ticks. I haven’t had a chance to complete my search to find it again but what I did find was a 2009 Scientific American article which has the below quote:

Most of the problems were minor, such as skin rashes, but about 600 dogs and cats died in the incidents reported in 2008, EPA records show.

So 600 dog and cats in 1 year…ok…my statement of 44k may be a low number huh?

Never use a spot treatment. Use oral it is far better.

I agree that in parts of the nation pet owners can get by with no treatment. I grew up in South Eastern PA and in my little corner of PA I never once saw a flea on my dogs…in fact I really didn’t ever see a flea until I moved to FL ( and so you know…we never sprayed for pests nor treated our dogs for fleas…heartworm yes…fleas no) Likewise in VT there are very few flea BUT there are lots of disease carrying ticks.

Bravecto does kill ticks quickly enough to stop transmission of disease ( per the studies). My dog seems fine on her 1st dose of Bravecto…the earth didn’t open up and swallow her but the fleas did die:)

Again..I caution all..I do not plan to give this drug to my gal year round..instead it is my go to for the bad months here in FL and ticks at our 2nd home in VT…thereafter she goes back on Sentinal and I even give that a break if she is up north when snow is on the ground.
Use your heads people…I can dig up stories of people dropping dead from drinking too much water to quickly. Don’t let the sky is falling folks scare you from reading good science and I encourage everyone to do just that. Research, research and then some more…check out the EPA sites…check out the FDA sites but do not listen to the misquoted gloomand doom posted here.

[davis h]

Bravecto or a tick?
My Labrador Service dog travelled the WORLD with me. He came within 24 hours of death…from Rocky Mountain Spotted fever from fever. A TICK bite! No matter how bad Bravecto Bravecto may or may not be it pales in comparrison to the almighty tick.
Pick your poison!

[Jane L]

I don’t have a way if addressed to me. Never find a need to use any chemical flea or wormer but if I did Bravecto, Nexgard & Trifexis would be the last on my list and I would prefer a flea infestation to feeding neurotoxins to any dog of mine.

[Jane L]

interesting article on Lyme’s disease here.

Also with Bravecto, Nexgard etc. that have no deterrent be aware hundreds of reports are inefficiently as the dogs still get tick disease as disease can pass much faster than the 12 hours each tick can feed before it has ingested enough of your dogs poisoned blood!

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-surprising-cause-of-lyme-disease-in-dogs/

[Becca]

35 million doses of bravecto have been used of course because fear sells.

[Cameron M]

Ok good to know Judy.
Look I agree 100% about risks involved with any insecticide and I try to go organic in my life when I can.

Trust me natural or organic flea control rarely works in FL. Now it might in certain highly controlled cases…such as a small apartment, dog or cat is walked on sidewalks mostly and settings as that nature. However, if you have a large yard as I do with lots of squirrels, racoons and birds visiting it is impossible to keep fleas at bay ( unless I spray my yard with poison …something I don’t want to do).

I personally think spot treatments can be worse than oral in some cases…the spot treatments are meant to spread to every part of the animals body and most animals groom themselves. This results in the dog or cat ingesting poison which was meant to be topical use only.

Again…my personal opinion is to much of anything can be harmful so I always try to give my dogs a break from flea meds whether the usual Sentinal ( which I normally use ) or the new Bravecto ( which I plan on using 1 time a year during the worst of flea/tick season).

I am not writing glowing reports about Bravecto …but yes…I am trying to bring a voice of reason and balance into this very biased discussion that has veered greatly from fact to one of hype and conjecture.

as I referenced earlier I saw a post that stated 44,000 dogs were killed by Advantix II…Do I believe it…NOOO..it wouldn’t be on the market…do I like Advantix II…no for reasons I stated above.

[Cameron M]

I’l wager that half of these anti posts are really made by a single person..judy and Mary and doodleroo doopey do guy are probably all the same 300 pound high school kid spoofing us?

Dunno but none of them are convincing if you follow science..thats right..the EU, USA and Australia all say Bravecto is safe.

now I am not saying it is but I am saying I gave my gal a dose this past Wed for the first time and she is fine..I plan on watching her…having blood work done in a month and then I’ll say it is safe…or not.

One thing I will not do is get scared by idle conjecture and hype.

[Cameron M]

Ah yes Happy Monday to all. Actually visiting this site is what helped me decide to give Bravecto to my Cocker Spaniel (Coco). I suspected all the negative reports were just hype and visiting here helped convince me.

Lets look just look at the logic…a few posts above we have Judy stating she administered Advantix..but wait I saw a report that Advantix killed 44,000 dogs. But Judy loves it (and by the way snicker..its made by Bayer..hi Judy and friends..Bayer isn’t some small time Pharma corp:).

We really haven’t heard what the rest of Anti Bravecto gang uses which really isn’t helpful to their cause because after all this blog forum is supposed to help us decide right? what to use and what not to use…right? But all a certain few do is complain and post misleading statistics.

But lets get back to dear Judy..so what she suggests is safe is based on:
ADVANTIX contains Permethrin

PERMETHRIN

The insecticide permethrin (in the synthetic pyrethroid family) is widely used on cotton, wheat, corn, alfalfa, and other crops. In addition, over 100 million applications are made annually in and around U.S. homes.

Permethrin, like all synthetic pyrethroids, is a neurotoxin. Symptoms include tremors, incoordination, elevated body temperature, increased aggressive behavior, and disruption of learning. Laboratory tests suggest that permethrin is more acutely toxic to children than to adults.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has classified permethrin as a carcinogen because it causes lung tumors in female mice and liver tumors in mice of both sexes. Permethrin inhibits the activity of the immune system in laboratory tests, and also binds to the receptors for a male sex hormone. It causes chromosome aberrations in human and hamster cells. Permethrin is toxic to fish, birds, honeybees, tadpoles and hasan adverse lasting impact on life.

[Jane L]

Yes as Susan says the EMA is the European Medicines Agency. They did not do any studies the testing was all done by Merck / MSD with no independent studies. The EMA is where all serious reported adverse reactions and deaths Worldwide are meant to be forwarded within 15 days of the report.

http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Newsletter/2017/02/WC500222245.pdf

on page 4 it says:-

‘The MAH was asked to provide a targeted PSUR that should include an
extensive analysis and review of all serious reaction reports with neurological
disorders, skin and appendages disorders, hypersensitivity/immune mediated
reactions and hepatopathy, also with death and death by euthanasia. This
targeted PSUR will be assessed by the CVMP and depending on the outcome
additionally measures will be taken.
In addition, during the last period of surveillance “
lethargy” has been identified and the MAH was requested to update the SPC to include this term in the SPC.’

Anybody can also apply for an ADE report and read the cases which read like these 3 x examples :-

Suspected Adverse Reaction:-
On 5 Feb 2015, a veterinarian reported that a dog had a seizure and weakness approximately 6 hours after receiving half a tablet of Bravecto 1400 mg (over 88 lbs. and up to 123 lbs.) (Extra Label Use-Treatment Program Not Respected) on 3 Feb 2015. The dog had another seizure on 4 Feb 2015. The signs resolved on 5 Feb 2015. Four other dogs were given the product and none of them had a reaction. Follow-up information is pending. Follow-up on 27 Feb 2015 via email: the owner, who is also the vet, reports that the dog had Bravecto on 2 Feb 2015 (previously reported as 3 Feb 2015). Updated patient information was reported (11 yr old female rottie cross). Besides the 2 seizures, which were previously reported, the vet also mentioned that the dog’s legs were very weakened to the point where she could not get up or lie down. Bloodwork, including a 4DX snap test, were negative and skull radiographs were clear. She was circling and head pressing and could only eat if hand fed as standing was very difficult for her. She remained weak and was euthanized on 25 Feb 2015.

***
Suspected Adverse Reaction: On 11 Dec 2015, a veterinary technician reported that a 5-month-old, 2-kilogram dog was taken to the veterinary clinic for grooming on 10 Dec 2015. Before bathing, the dog received a 112.5 mg Bravecto chew. While drying (approximately 30 minutes after Bravecto administration), the dog had a seizure and died. Petechial lesions on the abdomen had also developed. A necropsy had not been performed at the time of the report. Follow-up information is expected. Follow-up on 12 Jan 2016: A necropsy report was received. Gross pathological findings included multifocal petechial hemorrhages of the mucosa/serosa in multiple organ systems, moderate congestion in the coronary and myocardial vessels, and severe congestion of the meninges, which were adhered to the cranium. The presumptive diagnosis was hepatic encephalopathy. Hepatic findings were compatible with hepatic glycogenolysis or glucocorticoid hepatopathy, which is consistent with differentials such as hyperadrenocorticism, severe stress, or an iatrogenic origin (e.g. glucocorticoid administration). The microcirculatory lesions are associated with microcirculatory collapse, shock, and death, which suggests a possible hypersensitivity reaction to products administered to this patient.

*****

Suspected Adverse Reaction: Bravecto 250mg was administered to adog on 13 Nov 2015. One hour later the dog’s skin was red and after that, the dog had seizures. The owner brought the dog to the clinic, but it was dead on arrival, approximately 1.5 hours after administration.

*****

You are all free to use what you wish so if you think the convenience of feeding this insecticide once every 3 months to your dog is worth the risk go right ahead but at least you have read the warnings and know the risk. There are many settlements too if waivers are signed.

[judy t]

Cameron,

Here’s some basic science: don’t take any drugs that haven’t been on the market long enough to determine long-term effects. And if, as you say, we’re in a lot of trouble, much of it is due to the fact that too many people blindly follow anyone wearing a lab jacket.

I was “digging at my husband’s doctor”? RIGHT! He prescribed two drugs and told us that they would be safe to take forever with no adverse affects when they’d just been out for a couple of years! How scientific is that? One has since been recalled for causing coronaries and the other is causing gastrointestinal problems. How long has Bravecta been out?

Read some of these reviews on the subject: http://www.productreview.com.au/p/bravecto.html

Personally, I’m good with anecdotal evidence.

As for what I do, I have four dogs, two inside and two primarily outside. I just put Advantix II on my big, healthy year-old lab/shepherd mix for the first time, and I’ll watch her carefully. For my others, I’ve found diatamaceous earth to be very effective in treating bedding and lounging areas. I also bath and check them often and use various herbal sprays which repel insects. I’m next door in Alabama, so I have pretty much the same climate that you’re in.

And thank you for your thank you, you condescending jerk.

[Cameron M]

My statements are that I am trying it…never said I loved it and frankly I don’t know if I will use it again. So far so good though.

People come here to try to get facts and make a decision. I need good flea control period. I also love organic but that doesn’t work where I live.

My vet ( who I trust a great deal) suggested Bravecto. Like everyone else here I started to research because no…I don’t like “new” drugs…esp. long acting drugs. As I started to research this my hair almost fell out because of all the hype…seriously…I was taken back.

Then slowly I started sorting through all the junk and came to a conclusion. I gave my gal Bravecto and I will say this to people:

Keep an eye on your dog, give breaks from flea and heart worm meds when you can and most importantly get blood work done esp liver enzymes…if you notice chances immediately suspect that your flea or heartworm meds may be the cause and investigate.

I promise to report back…I am having my gal’s liver enzymes tested mid-way through the 90 period.

Susan and Judy…thank you for your input as well.

[Cameron M]

Susan and Judy, I was thanking the individual who took the time to express his/her opinion.

Judy, I am sorry for your loss, however, I am not discussing Comfortis I am discussing Bravecto. Likewise, I am not discussing your doctor ( hey readers…lets stop here a second…scroll up a bit and read the post where the person suggests listening to your vet now notice Judy digging at her husband’s Doctor…can’t win huh?).

I keep responding because seriously…we are in a lot of trouble today because people do not understand basic science…perhaps our schools are to blame. It is truly scary to me to hear such twisted yet seemingly “common” sense comments be accepted…such as it must be toxic if it kills fleas.

Rubish! So Judy to answer I will say I do not know what you mean because what is toxic to a flea is obviously vastly different than what is toxic to my dog or myself with both us being mammals.

Even between mammals there are vastly different toxicity variables. Do you enjoy grapes Judy? How about chocolate? Both really tasty and good food items for humans that will kill dogs…gee…it seems simple common sense doesn’t really work in the world of science. So please keep your you simple homespun observations to yourself because all you do is create danger.

If you actually have studies which support harm being caused by Bravecto then please do share…but you don’t. Scopes even investigated this and found all the hype to be an urban myth based on conjecture vs facts.

Flea and tick control are extremely important – neither Judy or Susan have bothered to offer a helpful suggestion as to a proven alternative to medication ( I say proven vs swing a chicken over your head on a full moon).

So please Judy and Susan…can you share a good method to protect my gal here in FL from flea bites ( which cause disease) or ticks ( which cause disease)?

[Cameron M]

Hey, Thank you! I did give my gal Bravecto last Wed. She is doing great. Its almost comical but at the same time scary that handful of extremely vocal people claim all these horrible things yet when you go to the sources they cite the information is just the opposite. One person here cited a Swedish study and when I pasted the conclsuion of the study that they found no…zero connection between reported side effects to the administartion of Bravecto..the gal who cited the study here replied …oh yeah well thats the Swedish.

Anyway…thanks for your support and logical advice…my gal is fine now and free of fleas

Cameron

[Susan W]

Great suggestion! And if he begins to have seizures after taking it, I am sure it is just a coincidence since MSD has not issued seizure warnings for the oral even though MSD stated it can cause seizures in dogs that never had them when they did the study for the topical. It must be irrelevant that seizures are in the top 10 side effects reported to the FDA after Bravecto. And it must not matter because the overall incidence of side effects reported is so low. And I am sure that has nothing to do with the fact that the FDA estimates that only 1% of people report adverse side effects. Good luck everyone. We have all made our points. The dogs are the important thing here. Do what you feel is best and at least you know the potential risks when you play russian roulette.

Using Cameron’s words we have “taken enough space up in this blog…lets stop. I am”. Good luck all.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Susan W.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Susan W.

[Jane L]

For anybody interested not Cameron who I am not responding to. Here are two articles written by vets and one by a biologist.

As I say I know many vets that warn against and will not sell in many Countries. I have read reports and viewed many necropsies. Yes no conclusive proof as that seems impossible but the EMA review cases and hundreds are listed as probable cause.

So just go on the risk / reward and decide if you think it’s a risk worth taking.

http://vitalanimal.com/bravecto/

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/bravecto-nexgard-simparica-oral-flea-tick-preventives-safe/

http://www.isbravectosafe.com/bravecto-files/501-IS-BRAVECTO-SAFE-ABOUT-BRAVECTO-AND-FLURALANER-THE-WAY-THE-MEDICATION-WORKS.pdf

And here

“All 4 Paws Veterinary Hospital
3 February ·
And this, dear clients, is why we do NOT carry trifexis, comfortis, and bravecto, or simparica or vectra or any other topicals especially hard on cats.
We carry only heartgard or sentinel and nexgard for heartworm, fleas and ticks in dogs
And we recommend Revolution in cats.
Capstar is amazing at helping with severe infestations and is extremely safe.
That’s it.
There’s a large class action lawsuit with trifexis and comfortis also.
We support the products made and extensively safety tested , and safe since 8 weeks old
Bravecto and others are NOT approved until 6 months of age.
When we read the safety literature, we realized we were uncomfortable with the safety data.
Please tell your friends and help people keep their pets safe.
Always remember to buy these products from your veterinarian, not because of the money, but because merial backs its products 100% for a refund or treatment, if there should be any bad side effects.
If you buy them from some diverted pharmacy or 1800petneds, you have zero recourse for treatment costs etc.
That is so important.
Most vets will pricematch anyway.
We do, as we prefer you get a fresh and real , well stored product.”

https://www.facebook.com/All4Pawsvet/

[Cameron M]

Thanks Jane,

Supports what I have been saying…this is a direct copy and paste from the LINK you sent to me…notice the “so far we have not seen any connection?:

In Sweden Bravecto launched in May 2014. Since then, the MPA has received a total of 152 adverse event reports related to the agent.

– I know it is a big concern and that many have their eyes on Bravecto. We look at each report and an assessment of whether it is probable, possible or unlikely that there is a connection between what happened and medicine. So far we have not seen any connection to Sweden, says Susanne Stenlund, veterinarian at the MPA.

[Jane L]

Yes “straying in deep weeds” might be risky. Pick up a tick and you might need to trial the Bravecto instead giving it to your poor dog 🙄

[Jane L]

How many would you like. Here is the EMA announcement of targeted PSUR’s. Some decision in June is mentioned.

Official German statement and one from Sweden. There are also publications news reports from Netherlands, Beguim. Poland and more. You can find them all online including the 30 minute documentary from Holland.

http://www.atl.nu/lantbruk/fastingmedel-granskas-efter-larm/

http://www.bvl.bund.de/DE/05_Tierarzneimittel/05_Fachmeldungen/2017/2017_01_24_Fa_Bravecto.html

The MAH was asked to provide a targeted PSUR that should include an extensive analysis and review of all serious reaction reports with neurological disorders, skin and appendages disorders, hypersensitivity/immune mediated reactions and hepatopathy, also with death and death by euthanasia. This targeted PSUR will be assessed by the CVMP and depending on the outcome additional measures will be taken.
In addition, during the last period of surveillance “lethargy” has been identified and the MAH was requested to update the SPC to include this term in the SPC.

http://www.ema.europa.eu/…/Newslett…/2017/02/WC500222245.pdf

Articles from Sweden, Poland, Russia, here is one if you want to translate.

http://www.ed.nl/binnenland/onderzoek-naar-dodelijk-middel-tegen-vlooien-bij-honden~a7592e05/

[Jane L]

US Adopted Name “fluralaner” is: 4-[5-(3,5-Dichlorophenyl)-5-trifluoromethyl-4,5-dihydroisoxazol-3-yl]-2-m- ethyl-N-[(2,2,2-trifluoro-ethylcarbamoyl)-methyl]-benzamide (CAS RN [864731-61-3]).

The liver produces and secretes bile into the intestine where the bile assists with the absorption and digestion of dietary fat. The liver aids purification of the blood, by altering potentially harmful chemicals into harmless ones, and then: either secretes them with the bile for elimination in the stool, or back into the blood, where they then are removed by the kidneys and eliminated in the urine. The typical non-specific symptoms of degenerative liver disease (loss of appetite, nausea/vomiting, lethargy, etc.) are common first “symptoms” of “adverse reaction” to Bravecto®.

The dog’s pancreas (endocrine and digestive system) produces insulin hormones (regulates the flow of glucose/sugar) and enzymes that break down fat and proteins to aid in the digestion of foods. When overburdened, the pancreas becomes inflamed, and the flow of enzymes into the digestive tract is disrupted; the enzymes may be forced out of the pancreas and into the abdominal area. These digestive enzymes will begin to break down fat and proteins in other organs… (the body begins to digest itself). Because of their proximity, the kidneys and liver are prime targets of this progression.

Enterohepatic Circulation that leads to hepatic toxicity/

And as a side note would it be under investigation by the EMA as well as Sweden, Germany, Netherlands if there were not serious concerns?

[Cameron M]

Not sure you are directing this to me…well yes..actually I do have a doctorate but no offense taken.

And yes…my vet whom I trust HIGHLY reccomends Bravecto…nontheless I am doing my research as well just to make sure.

And I add that there are some out there who love a good scandel..even when I say my vet reccomended the drug they scream…aah the vets are making money off this…they are part of the quote “system” as if there is this huge shady group of people lying about research and killing dogs just so they can make a buck.

Really, in today’s world you can’t win…you say you agree with a research study and the opinion of a trained vet and they jump on you…you say you don’t trust a study and the otherside jumps on you.

What I do is listen to experts..look at all sides and decide the issue solely on science. To date I have not read a single research article which supports all the dire side effects that some here are claiming.

Now will admit a few here do make a logical case for longer term and presently unknown side effects. Such as yes…how does the liver react over 10 years to this drug.

Medical doctors today now realize that minor but constant inflammation in the human body can cause cancer…20 years ago they would have laughed at the notion that some minor little thing would kill you 15 years later.

For now I feel safe in the short term usage of Bravecto…BUT I am not certain I will want to use this for the next 5-10 years? I’ll get back to you on that question!

[Cameron M]

Thanks for your observations…it is good to get feed back from others who use Bravecto. My plan is to administer it as sparingly as possible giving long breaks inbetween. I am also going to keep a close eye on my gal.

Jane has made a few logical observations…her comments about the potential for the liver to try to metabolize the drug only to fail in being able to do so does raise concerns for me.

Since I have a pretty good track record of Coco’s liver enzemes rating before administerig this drug I plan on having her tested again in a month to see if her liver enzemes did indeed rise as Jane fears is a potential…I want to see exactly what is going on with my dog before deeming this 100% safe.

For now I am thinking that it is safe…lets see what I think after tests down the road. If it is causing elevated liver enzemes I’ll never give Coco another dose and I highly doubt that I will have damaged her through administering a single dose ( this might not be true with other dogs/breeds)

When thinking about this I sugest that we realize the effects of medicines varies greatly in humans. Some of us can guzzle wine with no ill effect…others take one sip and get headaches or suffer ill effects from alcohol. Same with aspirin… I might take it and be fine…you might take it and have severe stomach problems.

The trick in life is finding what works best for us individually…what foods to eat …what meds to take and what allergies we may have…I think the same holds true for dogs or any animal for that matter.

As they say in the Navy…keep a wary “weather” eye on this!

Cameron

[Cameron M]

Hi Susan,

Thank you for the excellent information! Yes, I am concerned about all these aspects..my plan is to use sparingly. Just one dose from now through Sept. then switch back to Sentinal. My dog splits her time between FL and VT…Fleas are a non issue in VT but ticks are a huge issue.

We are in FL at the moment and fleas are horrible this year because we didn’t have a heavy frost this winter ( normally my part of FL..St Augustine..gets 1 or two hard freezes a winter).

I plan on keeping a close eye on Coco.

As to your observations about Bravecto remaining in the body for too long…I did read a medical study which stated that trace amounts were found in the blood at 111 days but that the effective dosage ended roughly at the 90 day mark…this is an overlap of 21 days and like you I am concerned about build up if given on a regular basis.

With that said …the flip side is that if you think about it – even using a monthly medicine has the effect of keeping the dog under load too. Every month you administer a monthly dose the dog always has the drug in its system…right?

I don’t really see a difference…giving 3 pills of Sentinal over 3 months is the exact same as giving one pill of Bravecto over 3 months.

Therefore my main concern is the overlap and build up relating to proper dosage schedules as discussed above vs. concern over having the drug in the dog’s body.

I guess the real question is …” is it safe or not” If the drug is really safe ok…if the drug causes cancer or other illness then I wouldn’t use it period.

I also agree with you that with any new drug one has to worry about long term side effects which don’t show up in the studies…ones that only start cropping up after 5 or 10 years.

We just don’t know yet with Brvecto…BUT in theory I do like the fact that it doesn’t load the liover or kidneys…that part is very good. In addition the studies to date indicate far fewer adverse reactions than other standard and older medicines…that part is good too.

Then we have the fact that boy…it is working great on Coco so far regarding fleas…has the potential to kill ticks within 2-4 hours after being bitten ( I think lyme disease requires the tick be attached for 24 or more hours)..so that is also a plus.

My pan…keep a wary eye…use a sparingly as possible…AND most importantly take Coco off the med for long breaks when neither fleas or ticks are an issue…maybe even just giving her one dose a year.

In a perfect world without fleas or ticks I wouldn’t giver her any medicine. I HATE ..ABSOLUTELY HATE that I have to medicate my gal…but since I do I am going to keep researching which medicine is the safest then give as little as possible.

Thaks again!

Cameron
P.S. I wish our pets had the ability to help make a choice…by saying hey you dope…don’t give me that junk…it makes me feel woozy…or bad. That is the single hardest part about having pets…we have to observe and use our knowledge to guess what is best and how our babies feel. To everyone reading…please – get to know your pets!!!

[pitlove]

Hi Jane-

Not sure if any of your comments were directed at me, but my seizure predisposed boy is doing great with Bravecto. None at all for the whole year and a half he’s been on it. I’ll continue to use it, but thanks for your concern.

[Jane L]

Be very careful as they state the ingredient can cause seven in animals with no history or seizures. This is on the new topical and not added to oral still in spite of hundreds of seizures reported. In Australia a veterinary nurse said they are told it must not be sold to dogs with seizure history. I have seen many videos of seizures though, some starting within minutes of them taking it and not always after the first dose. Several have ended up having to be euthanised. Some are offered settlements on signing waivers.

IMPORTANT SAFETY INFORMATION (CATS):
The most common adverse reactions recorded in clinical trials were vomiting, itching, diarrhea, hair loss, decreased appetite, lethargy, and scabs/ulcerated lesions. Bravecto has not been shown to be effective for 12-weeks’ duration in kittens less than 6 months of age. Bravecto is not effective against American dog ticks beyond 8 weeks of dosing. For topical use only. Avoid oral ingestion. The safety of Bravecto has not been established in breeding, pregnant and lactating cats.
Use with caution in cats with a history of neurologic abnormalities. Neurologic abnormalities have been reported in cats receiving Bravecto, even in cats without a history of neurologic abnormalities.

IMPORTANT SAFETY INFORMATION (DOGS):
The most common adverse reactions recorded in clinical trials were vomiting, hair loss, diarrhea, lethargy, decreased appetite, and moist dermatitis/rash. Bravecto has not been shown to be effective for 12-weeks’ duration in puppies less than 6 months of age. Bravecto is not effective against lone star ticks beyond 8 weeks of dosing. For topical use only. Avoid oral ingestion.
Use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures. Seizures have been reported in dogs receiving fluralaner, even in dogs without a history of seizures.

[pitlove]

Hi Cameron-

The dog in my avatar is predisposed to seizures and has a variety of allergies and food intolerances, so I have to be careful what I give him. I’m in the south too and have been using Bravecto for a good while now with zero issues. I feel it’s a good product comparatively.

[Susan]

Hi Cameron M, my vet doesn’t recommend Bravecto especially when you have elderly dog or a dog with health problems….. Bravecto doesn’t just leave the dogs system after 3 months, in Australia some vets are seeing too many side effects & recommending to give dose every 4 months, or just the once for the Summer months, ticks are still being found dead after 5 months after taking just 1 Bravecto chew dose…
*Bravecto stays in the body way tooo long, I wonder, dogs that are given Bravecto in 5 yrs what health problems will these poor dogs have or what health problems they will be dying from??
Found this when I googled Bravecto so I copied & paste….

Susana Wahs shared a link to the group: “Does Bravecto Kill Dogs”?
Long term side effects. Still finding dead ticks months after last dose ? Some disturbing facts I have found as to why.
I was researching as to why my dog has had 10 months of lack of appetite following his last dose of Bravecto, my vet came up with all the usual excuses, it is summer, it is warm, dogs eat less in summer, i told them it is Bravecto, my dog was 5 he has always eaten in summer, the house has air conditioning, he lives inside. This lack of appetite carried on through the winter, a full 10 months of putting his meal out for him at 9 am and him not touching it until 9 pm if he bothered at all some days, he always ate two meals a day 12 hours apart before he had his serious adverse reaction to Bravecto. Many days i have had to feed him by hand to encourage him to eat something.
I was also looking into why at 6 months after his last dose i found Dead attached ticks on his stomach, even though he was not taking any tick and flea treatment, then this April, i found 2 more dead attached ticks on him, 12 months after his last dose, I check him daily for ticks and fleas. Many other people have reported still finding dead attached ticks on their dogs upto a year after the last dose, i wanted to know how it could be and how long can this carry on for ?
So i started researching to see what the levels of Fluralaner are in the dogs plasma. I found some of the trials which mention the dogs had blood drawn to measure the levels, Fluralaner was quantifiable in plasma for up to 112 days after single oral dose ( they have not published any testing for levels of fluralaner after day 112 for us that are in Countries where we should give Bravecto every 3 months/ 90 days) so from this we know Bravecto is still efficient enough and quantifiable in the plasma to be still killing upto 112 days.
So then i start to look into the Bravecto Australia, which must be the same ingredients as they refer to the testing trials the same, the only additional testing carried out for its use in Australia was how effective it is against Paralysis ticks, which was an additional test to all the others we see. Australia is sold Bravecto that is to be taken every 4 months/ 120 days as it is still efficent to kill paralysis ticks for 4 months. Flualaner was quantifiable in plasma for up to 143 days after a single oral dose ( they have not published any testing for levels after the 143 days) Results: Fluralaner treatment efficacy against I. holocyclus was 100% at 72 h post treatment. Following re-infestations the efficacy remained at 100% at the 72 h assessments for 115 days and reached 95.7% at 143 days.
So still 100 per cent efficacy at 115 days ……… And still 95.7% at 143 days. ( Almost 5 months )
So what would the levels be at say 6 months, 7 months, 8 months, a year, 2 years ?
It does not just leave your dogs system at the 3 month marker, this is probably how we are seeing long term side effects. What have I done to my dog. He is still not fully recovered 15 months after his dose of Bravecto.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24606874
http://us.bravovets.com/published-studies-resources.aspx
http://www.bravecto.com.au/…/bravecto_technical_detailer.pdf

Pharmacokinetics of fluralaner in dogs following a single oral or intravenous administration. -…
Parasit Vectors. 2014 Mar 7;7:85. doi: 10.1186/1756-3305-7-85. Randomized Controlled Trial
NCBI.NLM.NIH.GOV|BY KILP S , ET AL.

Pharmacokinetics

[Cameron M]

Sorry…but no…nope you are 100% wrong. Look I don’t sell this…I am not a vet and yes I am concerned since my gal just went on it ( seems fine so far).

Bravecto is not excreted via urine ( means zero liver or kidney involvement) IT IS SOLELY EXCERETED VIA THE STOOL and I may add it is excreted in the exact same chemical form as it had when administered.

If you know anything about the body you would immediately know that the liver and kidneys have absolutely no part in this.

If you have other facts please provide…facts other than conjecture.

Thanks and my gal Coco thanks you as well

[Cameron M]

Yes…I agree…of course everything given orally goes through the Liver and Kidneys…so what? Your statement is as basic as saying all oxygen carried in red blood cells is distributed through out the body.

My point is that Bravecto is NOT METABOLIZED by the liver or kidneys…it passes through unchanged. This means it is not passed by urine and instead its excreted through the stool with the exact same chemical composition exiting that it has entering the body.

Your statement leads me to believe you have no knowledge of disease, the endocrine system, metabolisim or how the body reacts to and processes chemical wastes.

By no means am I saying Bravecto is safe…I truly don’t know yet . BUT I am saying that on paper it makes total sense…the fact that my baby ( Coco) isn’t fighting or trying to break down the chemical seems much safer than any other flea med which results in the dog’s liver or kidneys trying to break down and excrete in the urine. In my mind other flea meds cause a …shal we say “load” on the body when the body tries to rid itself of the chemical.

Bravecto slowly is released via capilaries in the instestines into the stool…then is passed without the body giving a second glance.

I do not disagree that any foreign substance in the body is a potential for concern…I am almost 100% organic…my garden…my house and my food when I can control it.

I also agree that that any flea med has risks BUT I do not like topicals because they are basically the same as roach spray and I worry about the dog ingesting ( and the resulting…here is that word again..metobolizing…the poison to rid it…the stress on the liver and kidneys).

I used Sentinal before and now that I understand the process I again think of the stress on the liver and kidney.

Since I live in FL I have to have good flea control…I also have a house in VT where there are many ticks. The bottomline is I weigh the risks vs benefit and in this cause …again on paper since my gal has only been on it for a day plus a few hours…It makes sense to me to use this drug. At least during the worst of flea and tick season.

If you have a proven and highly effective alternative for me I ask you please let me know…of course I would go organic if given the choice ( if it works)

[Cameron M]

My vet gave me Bravecto for my 25 lb Cocker Spaniel…I just lost her best buddy another cocker gal due to IMT ( its a immune disorder …rapid onset and destroys the platelets…she basically bled to death after 4 transfusions and over $5000 spent).

I was very concerend about what set of my gal’s immune disorder and the vet said we never know…allergies, pollen, infection, virus BUT make sue your other gal has a safe flea med.

I heard many bad things about Bravecto and many good things…I researched this in vet journals and I am now pretty sure that all the stories one hears about how Bravecto wrecked the dogs liver or kidney or caused cancer ..are pure rubbish. The reason…Bravecto is not metablized in the liver or kidneys…instead it is excreted through the instestines and it has the exact same chemical composition going out as it does going in the mouth. Furthermore, science says it passed right through the liver and kidneys…this means your dogs body is not straining to metablize this drug..ad it does not get broken down into waste.

I’m very sorry to hear all the sad pet owners by I listen to science not conjecture…my guess is all the dogs in the sad stories had something wrong long before being given Bravecto and it is just pure chance the symptoms showed up when they did. Also…having lost my great gal just last week I know for 100% certain that us owners are always looking for a “cause” …what caused this disease or death BECAUSE we don’t want to feel guilty that maybe we missed something earlier…also some owners throught guilt want to blame themselves…oh no I shouldn’t have done this or that.

Its our human nature as doggie parents. I haven’t yet given the drug to my dog but I am planning to do so later today…and I promise to report back if there are any negative side effects

[pitlove]

Hi Haleycookie-

Geez, I wish I had better news for you. Unfortuntely the way fleas work, if your grandma can’t get them under control in the house you will still find them on your dog. Killing the adult fleas on your dog does not “stop” the infestation because with as many cats as she has in the house there are likely tons of eggs etc. That being said you absolutely still want him on a flea preventative like you said. I’ve used Bravecto for a while now and love it.

Hopefully you can find a way to have her at your apartment! Poor baby 🙁

[haleycookie]

Ok I recently had to move into a small apartment out of my dads place due to my dad becoming sick and loosing his house. So my dog went with my grandma. I usually use advantage to treat my dog for fleas if I ever find them on her. That has always done me well. If I see a flea on her or one of my cats I treat them all however my grandma has dogs of her own and has a feral colony in her house basically. They all used to be indoor outdoor but now are indoor. Over 20 of them. Fleas are quite the problem there and as you can imagine treating 20+ cats can be quite expensive something my grandma can’t afford to do most of the time. She occasionally get cheap stuff from Walmart to treat her dogs and cats but it doesn’t help much. I still use advantage on my dog but it doesn’t seem to be doing anything at all in this situation and it’s so sad for me to see her itch and chew all the time. I’m considering registering her as a emotional support dog to bring her to my apartment. But until then does anyone have suggestions on what kind of flea meds I could use? I was thinking about bravecto since it covers three months but idk tbh I’m not sure anything will keep them off completely. Ideally I’d love to have something that repelled the fleas or killed them instantly if they jumped on her. Any suggestions would be nice. I intend of calling around to vets and asking their opinions as well.

[Amanda D]

@Anon101…. I said I spoke with my vet and that I was going to with what they have. Why are you telling me to “Wake Up?” That is kind of rude. 🙁

@InkedMarie I want to spray my lawn with a anti-dandelion spray, you only apply it just before and dandelion season, but I need to run it by my vet, with as tiny of a lawn we do have, we get carpeted with them. I’mean taking my cats in this week for nail clippings so I’ll ask then.

@Pitluv Yup Bravecto was the one 🙂

[pitlove]

The product your vet is refering to is called Bravecto. I use it on both my dogs. I really like the product. It is one of the only ones that my pitbull who is predisposed to seizures can have that will not lower the seizure threshold.

[pitlove]

Hi Lora-

We use Bravecto for my seizure predisposed pitbull. Have always had great success with it. I have to be very careful which type of prevention I give him, what kind of anesthetic he gets etc. I definitely would recommend Bravecto.

[Lora J]

Thank you all for the continued replies with ideas! I have contacted Washington State University about flea control and they said the only topical that has been tested for use on MDR1 dogs is Bravecto. I am going to stop the Parastar topical, and find another method, and I will be trying these natural ideas. Our local Aussie Rescue recommends Sentinel flavortabs for heartworm control in Aussies, so I will probably switch him to that when his Heartgard is gone. I understand from WSU that any heartworm pills on the market are tested and approved for MDR1 dogs, except those with spinosad, which would be Trifexis. Thank you again, and I will keep watching this thread for more information!

[Marie P]

Frontline, Bravecto, Flea product dangers; Here is a good article on some LESS dangerous flea products from your VET and Safe Natural products to combat fleas/tics; I try to go natural when possible. Good list of Natural Flea fighters here http://bulldogvitamins.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-good-and-bad-of-dog-flea-treatment.html

[Donna M]

Stay away from Bravecto too. There is a Facebook page about it killing dogs.
I used Frontline once, and both dogs started acting weird within hours. I gave them both multiple baths.
I use lavender oil on a bandana and I rub them down with food grade DE.

[pitlove]

That facebook group is a prime example of what I was talking about…taking things on the internet with a grain of salt.

My dogs are doing excellent with Bravecto and I have every intention of continuing to use it.

[Barb R]

Think i would stay clear of the Bravecto poison. There is a very large facebook group with lots of owners having issues.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/411371212394679/

[pitlove]

Trust me, I live in the south. I can’t get away with not using a flea prevention or the “all natural” flea preventions. They do nothing down here. So I definitely rely heavily on the safety and efficacy of regular flea meds.

I would highly recommend Bravecto if you don’t want to have to think about giving them a topical monthly. It’s much more convenient IMO.

[pitlove]

Hi Christine-

I think I’ve used all of the flea & tick meds that people complain about and say have killed their pet with literally no issue. You have to take a lot of the complaints on the internet with a grain of salt. I used Frontline Plus once for my cat…no issues. I know plenty of others who have used Fipronil based products for a long time with no issue.

As long as you aren’t having issues with it and it continues to work, then I think you’re safe. If you are looking to switch, I’d suggest asking your vet for a recommendation for a different product. I personally use Bravecto for both my dogs and have had great success with it. It is a 3 month oral product.

[Fred C]

Hi boys and girls
I have been giving my 18 lb Pomeranian Bravecto for 2 1/2 years and she seems fine. Hasn’t had any fleas since I started and only an occasional tick walking on her not biting . Also bravecto seems to last atleast 6 months on my dog with prescribed dosage given. I wouldn’t suggested you do this but I was curious, and kept a daily watch on her, because we spend at least four hours a day in the park/ woods. Four years ago my dog caught Lyme disease while I had her on Frontline and several other dogs had the same experience. I even had the Lyme shot plus the booster shot and she still got it. Anyway Bravecto works for me and others at the park/woods. Only bad I hear is on the internet, even my vet has heard of no bad results from the product. That’s my two cents . We all got to do what we feel is right for our littl friends , and I’m glad you are all taking the time to research.
🐾💕👣