Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain-Free (Dry)


Rating: ★★★★½

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Dog Food receives the Advisor’s second-highest tier rating of 4.5 stars.

The Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free product line includes 8 dry dog foods.

Each recipe below includes its related AAFCO nutrient profile when available on the product’s official webpage: Growth, Maintenance, All Life Stages, Supplemental or Unspecified.

Important: Because many websites do not reliably specify which Growth or All Life Stages recipes are safe for large breed puppies, we do not include that data in this report. Be sure to check actual packaging for that information.

  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Surf and Turf [A]
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Lamb and Lentil [A]
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Salmon Tunalini [A]
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Beef Frittata Veg [A]
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Game Bird (4 stars) [A]
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Hasen Duckenpfeffer [A]
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Pork and Peas (4 stars) [A]
  • Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Chicken au Frommage (4 stars) [A]

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Lamb and Lentil was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free Lamb and Lentil

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 32% | Fat = 20% | Carbs = 40%

Ingredients: Lamb, lamb meal, lentils, chickpeas, dried whole egg, peas, dried tomato pomace, pork fat, pea flour, pork liver, salmon oil, cheese, olive oil, yellow squash, zucchini, apples, flaxseed, pea fiber, tomatoes, carrots, broccoli, potassium chloride, salt, chicory root extract, Yucca schidigera extract, sodium selenite, folic acid, taurine, sorbic acid (preservative), vitamins, minerals, probiotics

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 5%

Red items indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
Guaranteed Analysis29%18%NA
Dry Matter Basis32%20%40%
Calorie Weighted Basis27%40%33%
Protein = 27% | Fat = 40% | Carbs = 33%

The first ingredient in this dog food is lamb. Although it is a quality item, raw lamb contains up to 73% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The second ingredient is lamb meal. Lamb meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh lamb.

The third ingredient includes lentils. Lentils are a quality source of carbohydrates. Plus (like all legumes) they’re rich in natural fiber.

However, lentils contain about 25% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The fourth ingredient lists chickpeas, also known as garbanzo beans. Like peas, bean and lentils, the chickpea is a nutritious member of the fiber-rich legume (or pulse) family of vegetables.

However, chickpeas contain about 22% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The fifth ingredient is dried whole egg, a dehydrated powder made from shell-free eggs. Eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

The sixth ingredient includes peas. Peas are a quality source of carbohydrates. And like all legumes, they’re rich in natural fiber.

However, peas contain about 25% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the meat content of this dog food.

The seventh ingredient is tomato pomace. Tomato pomace is a controversial ingredient, a by-product remaining after processing tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.

Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content, while others scorn it as an inexpensive pet food filler.

Just the same, thereโ€™s probably not enough tomato pomace here to make much of a difference.

The eighth ingredient is pork fat, a product from rendering pig meat.

Commonly known as lard, pork fat can add significant flavor to any dog food. And it can be high in linoleic acid, an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life.

Although it may not sound very appetizing, pork fat (in moderate amounts) is actually an acceptable pet food ingredient.

The ninth ingredient is pea flour, a powder made from roasted yellow peas. Pea flour contains as much as 25% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the meat content of this dog food.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With five notable exceptions

First, salmon oil is naturally rich in the prized EPA and DHA type of omega-3 fatty acids. These two high quality fats boast the highest bio-availability to dogs and humans.

Depending on its level of freshness and purity, salmon oil should be considered a commendable addition.

Next, flaxseed is one of the best plant sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Provided they’ve first been ground into a meal, flax seeds are also rich in soluble fiber.

However, flaxseed contains about 19% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

In addition, we find pea fiber, a mixture of both soluble and insoluble dietary fiber derived from pea hulls. Aside from the usual benefits of fiber, this agricultural by-product provides no other nutritional value to a dog.

Next, chicory root is rich in inulin, a starch-like compound made up of repeating units of carbohydrates and found in certain roots and tubers.

Not only is inulin a natural source of soluble dietary fiber, it’s also a prebiotic used to promote the growth of healthy bacteria in a dog’s digestive tract.

And lastly, although the vitamins and minerals added to this product are not detailed sufficiently here to permit us to judge their quality, we’re reassured to find a detailed list of naturally present nutrients on the companyโ€™s website.

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals
Grain Free Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free looks like an above-average dry product.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 32%, a fat level of 20% and estimated carbohydrates of about 40%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 32% and a mean fat level of 19%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 41% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 60%.

Above-average protein. Above-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

When you consider the protein-boosting effect of the pea products, flaxseed, chickpeas and lentils, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a moderate amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain Free is a plant-based dry dog food using a moderate amount of named meats as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 4.5 stars.

Highly recommended.

Please note certain recipes are sometimes given a higher or lower rating based upon our estimate of their total meat content and (when appropriate) their fat-to-protein ratios.

Fromm Dog Food
Recall History

The following list (if present) includes all dog food recalls since 2009 directly related to this product line. If there are no recalls listed in this section, we have not yet reported any events.

You can view a complete list of all dog food recalls sorted by date. Or view the same list sorted alphabetically by brand.

To learn why our ratings have nothing to do with a product’s recall history, please visit our Dog Food Recalls FAQ page.

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Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

09/23/2017 Last Update

  • Inge

    the alternative is to feed raw. PMR (Prey Model Raw) has not carbs to feed the yeast issue. It will also eliminate the cause of redness on the skin and itching.

  • Richie Stephens

    As a Pet Supply & grooming salon it makes it a little harder to trust sites that get certain type of donations from the pet manufacturer, they seem to leave some important info out of the entire review

  • Gina

    Thank you for the insight! I had no idea this food is so contaminated. It’s very disappointing. Too bad Dog food Advisor doesn’t elaborate on this subject.

  • anon101

    Ethoxyquin is another preservative implied to have negative health effects despite a lack of evidence for the truth of such claims. Much is made of the fact that it is permitted in the U.S. but not in Europe, suggesting real risks have been identified but the FDA has somehow failed to acknowledge them. There is no reason to think, however, that European regulatory decisions are any more evidence-based than those made in the U.S., or more effective in protecting public safety. It is easy to find examples of the opposite being true, such as the case of thalidomide, a drug approved for use in pregnant women in Europe, but not in the U.S., in the 1950s and 1960s which turned out to cause significant birth defects. In any case, the evidence does not support claims that ethoxyquin is harmful at levels used in pet foods:

    Above is an excerpt from
    Click on link for full article and comments, that is, if you are receptive to science based veterinary medicine.

  • Susan

    Hi Gina,
    yes you should always rotate between different brands never feed the same brand dry dog kibble…A few of Fromm formula’s did very bad when it was tested for 130 toxins & contaminates, their Salmon ala veg was one of the Fromm formulas that tested high in toxins,
    google “Toxins In Pets Foods” look at the 2 link, or the link that says they did a study on 1080 pet food products from 80 brands products were screened for over 130 Toxins including Heavy metals BPA etc,
    I’m not allowed to post the company name….
    Have a look at “Canidae” Pure Sea or Pure Petitie small breed formula’s they’re all for sensitive stomachs & Canidae’s other brand called “Under The Sun” Whitefish LID formula, Canidae & under The Sun formula’s did very well when tested for toxins

  • A Nonnie Mess

    I’ve become more suspicious of most sea foods. Wild caught is usually great depending on the species (IMO, sharks were over harvested in the 90’s due to the miracle-cure claims of the cartilage and now krill is being harvested at an awfully fast pace, JMO). It’s probably not a big deal when the fish are cooked down into pet food, but some fish carry some nasty parasites or flukes that can be bad when fed in a raw state. But farmed kind of seems worse. =/
    I feel for those who have dogs or cats that do poorly on anything aside from a fish or seafood based food (if they have the same concerns of course.)

  • A Nonnie Mess

    On the subject of ethoxyquin, whether or not someone chooses to avoid it or not I’ve read that if the meat or meals purchased by the food companies are already preserved with it, it doesn’t have to be listed in the ingredients list.
    Please someone correct me if I’m wrong.
    We’ve fed sardines on occasion, but even the cats don’t seem to love them so we stopped feeding fish altogether.

  • anon101

    Zignature Dog Food โ€ข 3 months ago
    Our catfish are farm raised in Georgia so that we can monitor what they’re eating (which are GMO free foods). Knowing how catfish behavior is we made this decision and were very selective with choosing a farm to guarantee it’s humane.

  • anon101

    Another favorite with my dogs is Zignature codfish

    This article appears to offer some good advice (excerpt below, click on link for full article.
    A more serious charge against fish based meals is the possibility that the fish have high levels of heavy metals in their systems, which your dog then ingests. This is common in long lived fish like tuna, Mahi-Mahi, swordfish, and other top end predator fish. Short lived fish like jack mackerel, herring, or catfish do not accumulate these heavy metals to the same degree and are safer choices. Much of the fish meal used in dog foods tends to be from the shorter lived fish resources.
    Some fish meals that end up in commercial dog foods are preserved with a chemical known as ethoxyquin. The amount of ethoxyquin used is likely of no harm to your pet in any way, but the negative connotations of synthetic preservatives turn some consumers away.
    Of course, any fish that lives in the ocean will be exposed to some small amount of pollutants or heavy metals. Talk to your vet about you dog food choice if youโ€™re concerned about any possible issues.

  • haleycookie

    Most fish is either wild and full of heavy metals or farmed and raised in filthy conditions and farms further pollute local waters. Definitely give Fromm a call or email but I personally do not feed fish as it is at this point too taxing on the environment no matter how you look at it.

  • haleycookie

    Wild salmon is still full of mercury. Any fish from the ocean and most streams is. And farmed fish are raised in their won waste and puller local waters as well. No fish is really safe to feed or eat anymore.

  • Crazy4cats

    I would contact Fromm directly about your concern. I, personally, think it is a valid one.

  • anon101

    According to the Fromm’s website they use wild salmon.
    I’d be more concerned with the amount of potato listed.
    I prefer Zignature whitefish.

  • Gina

    I am wondering about mercury levels in Fromm Four Star Salmon ala Veg? Should I be concerned about this? I’ve thought of switching over to Chicken ala Veg, but my boy has a sensitive tummy and the salmon is easy on him.

  • Anonymous

    Our neighbors feed Fromm. They rotate between all the recipes, and are very happy with the results. The dogs also get various treats and canned (Fromm and other brands) as variety/toppers. None of the dogs have any health issues that the “wrong” food would be considered a potential trigger (IBD, food allergies, etc.).
    Hope this helps =)

  • sandy

    You can always add a different food to her “regular” Fromm food like a mix-in. Or rotate between Fromm recipes.

  • Susan

    Hi Krista,
    I rotate between 3 different brands that agree with Patch, I feed 1 brand for breakfast & his main dinner (Lamb) & I feed the other brand for lunch & his second dinner (Pork), today I went to Pet Shop & bought a wet tin food for lunch he got 1/2 the tin today & has the other 1/2 tommorrow for lunch, I also feed cooked meals sometimes for his smaller meals….this way he isnt eating the same food 24/7 I buy the smaller size kibbe bags the kibble is fresher when you buy the smaller bags, with the bigger bags the kibble sits for months & goes stale & the oils/fats go rancid when you have a smaller/medium size dog…

  • Krista

    How many would you rotate between?

  • Susan

    Hi Krista,
    Rotate, there’s no perfect pet food out there, some are higher in toxins & contaminates,
    google Toxins in Pet Foods” look where Fromm formula are on the list, your going to be VERY surprised….Rotate your dog will get less toxins, Fromme isn’t as great as people think..

  • Krista

    I’m trying to decide if I should stick with Fromm or roatate between Fromm and some others. She’s been doing well on Fromm. Is Fromm better than Nulo do you think?

  • Carol Erickson Ward

    Go the the Fromm web site and ask. We sell it where I work and they are very transparent. My dogs love the stuff.

  • Marty Rosenberg

    Organic is not a loose term
    There are USDA standards. Natural is a loose term.

  • Marty Rosenberg

    Your point?

  • Susan

    Hi Art,
    I was on Canidae’s face book page the other day & I watched a video showing Canidae farms their own veggies & fruit..

  • Art Runner

    I’m completely new to hearing about Fromm dog food, can anyone tell me – are the veg they used from farms that don’t spray insecticides, pesticides, growth improvers etc?
    Organic is quite a loose terms and often means nothing – but when I read of these so say healthy alternatives I do wonder how far the company goes to use totally clean ingredients.
    We can only do so much but to me for the money they charge – I’d like a guarantee that they use totally clean ingredients and are not just condensing the good with the bad.

  • Paula Marie Oulman

    Yes I agree! When Champion changed their formula and moved to KY. I have read nothing but bad review’s. My husky thrived on Orijen. It has taken me 6 month’s to finally find a food that Sasha will eat. She loved Orijen and only ate a cup a day. Of course, she had good snacks, veggies, etc. to go along with it! I finally decided on Fromm. She loves all the different varieties. Someone said their dog pooped a lot on Fromm. That may be from feeding too much! I feed her a half cup for breakfast of the Fromm Gold along with a scoop of Stella and Chewys freeze dried meal mixer’s crumpled in her food. For her evening meal, a half cup of Fromm Lamb and Lentils with salmon oil mixed in. Plus, of course she has good snacks throughout the day. She’s a small 35 lb little husky. Two perfect bowel movements a day! Better than the Orijen, her poo was pretty hard. I do rotate different varieties of Fromm. She seems to love it. Of course, all our furkids are different. This is just what I’m doing. Sasha is my 6th Husky in my 50 years of being a furmom. She just turned 5 and still act’s like a puppy! Always love advice! Love this forum

  • LunaLove

    im so sorry to hear that! i have three very close in age i fear that they will all go one after another bc they wont be ok without eachother. it was because of a broken heart!

  • Lisa

    Hi and thanks for asking. I tried making Ollie homemade food but ended up on Fromms frittata veg, which he liked. Oreo developed cancer and passed away in October. Oliver was never the same after losing Oreo. Oliver passed away of a heart attack November 30th. We’re not sure why and took us all by surprised. He and Oreo were very close. Thanks again

  • Susan

    Hi you need to rotate between a few different brands that have different proteins, sounds like your dog Oreo is getting sick of eating the same kibble 24/7…have you tried Zignature formula’s wet & dry? also have a look at wet tin foods as well just make sure the fat % is under 4% in a wet tin food, when you convert 4% fat to dry matter that’s around 16% fat if it were a kibble… I have 2 different brand kibble in my cupboard & I have wet tin food & I ask Patch, “Which one do you want today” & he sniffs the food & then licks which one he wants, I know these formula’s agree with him, he has food intolerances, so I stick with chicken free, limited ingredient formulas…

  • Shea

    No, I didn’t stick with Acana. She really didn’t like it much. She tried Hetitage Meats formula.
    The kibble isn’t small. I would say it’s a medium sized flat disc shaped. After trying a few samples of Fromm 4 star again I got her Fromm 4 star Gamebird. Currently, she’s on Fromm Gold Weight Management to lose a couple of pounds. She needs lower fat and lower calorie kibble now that she’s getting older and isn’t as active.

  • Mia Winters

    Is Acana small kibble? Is she still on it? Which one do you give her?

  • LunaLove

    how are your dogs doing? i know your post is old but i heard totw was making dogs sick just a heads up. i would try something not made by diamond. what did you decide to feed them?

  • Shea

    That sounds good. I think I’ll look into getting Sadie vitamins since she is an older dog. Yeah the coconut oil never did Sadie much good but I keep reading about all the benefits it has for dogs. I actually still use some on her skin sometimes though.

  • Shea

    At first I didn’t realize you were supposed to, but put it in the fridge after I read the back that it’s best in the fridge. It’s getting warm here in Georgia soon and my kitchen gets warm especially after I cook.

  • Krista

    Do you put the ultra oil in the fridge? I’m not sure if I should be storing it in the fridge or not? I read some reviews on Amazon that said the bottle clumped up towards the end when they put it in the fridge…not sure what I should do.
    I contacted the company and they said to store it in the fridge or a cool dark place. I don’t know if the pantry would be cool enough..

  • Krista

    I don’t think they absolutely need the multi vitamins if you’re feeding a balanced commercial dog food but I read an article that said it can help fill any nutritional gaps that the food may have from oxidation and cooking, etc.
    I got one from vetri science that’s only $10 and it has 90 tablets She gets a half tablet per day. I also like one that’s called nuvet plus but it’s pretty pricey.
    I think I might skip the addition of the coconut oil since it’s just added calories… I was using it for a while and didn’t notice any huge improvements. I think the fish oil is what really helps their coat. I use the ultra oil too.

  • Shea

    I give her probiotics and the Ultra Oil for Pets. I was giving turmeric to help with her lipoma but found out I need to give the turmeric curcumin capsule instead so I’m going to be getting that soon. The raw food I give her has digestive enzymes in it already. I haven’t really looked into giving vitamins. Do they need that if they’re getting the vitamins from their food? Sometimes I’m still confused on what to give her especially researching about how to shrink this lipoma of hers.

  • Shea

    I used to but it really didn’t give much improvements for her skin as I would’ve liked so I changed to the sardine oil and hoping the omega 3’s will help with her skin and help shrink her lipoma.

  • Krista

    Also, what supplements do you give? I give mine fish oil, probiotics and enzymes, Glyco flex stage 1 and a multi vitamin. Is this to many supplements do you think? I’m considering adding coconut oil is well. Just curious what others do.

  • Krista

    Do you give coconut oil? I want to give mine some but it’s 10 calories per 1/4 tsp. It seems like it’s a lot of calories… I would only give 1/4 tsp per day as it would be to much added calories for my dog to give more. I already give her 1/4 tsp of fish oil per day so I’m not sure about adding in the coconut oil. I usually like to keep the extras to about 10% and adding the coconut oil would bump it up closer to 15%. Do you give coconut oil?

  • Shea

    I add just a little to add variety to her kibble. If I’m cooking some for my family, she always gets excited and wants some. I only give her plain chicken of course. And if I’m making some baby carrots or green beans, I just chop up just a little to put on her kibble.

  • Krista

    I was interested in adding fresh chicken/fish to my girls food but I read you should only add 15% of unbalanced foods and her treats and supplements already make up about 10% of her diet. What percentage of extras do you add? Some say you can add more like up to 25% but I’m not sure..

  • Krista

    Sounds good. I guess we just have easy keepers lol. Mine would eat until she dropped dead if I let her. My families older cavalier gets 1 cup per day and weighs about 20 pounds.

  • Krista
  • Shea

    Sadie weighs 13 pounds. I give her one nugget of Primal freeze dried with 1/6 cup kibble in the morning. And for dinner, I give her 1/4 to 1/3 cup of kibble with a little fresh chicken or veggies like green beans or carrots as a topper. I might substitute a little canned to top kibble occasionally. She gets probiotics and omega 3 oil with her meals. I give her a couple of small treats during the day. Sounds like your dog is doing good on keeping her weight down. Sadie is almost 10 and goes for the occasional walk. She needs to lose a couple of pounds! I have reduced her food down but she would eat more if I let her!

  • Krista

    This is my girl ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Krista

    How many pounds does your dog weigh and how much can she eat per day? Just wondering because Mine can’t eat too much and I’m wondering if that’s normal..? She’s 17 pounds and she eats 1/3 cup kibble topped with 1 ounce of canned in the morning and 1/4 cup kibble topped with 1 ounce of canned in the evening. She also gets some supplements and treats. (no more than 10% of her diet) She isn’t to active other than her daily walks, maybe that’s why..?

  • Krista

    Awesome! Chloe really enjoyed the game bird one. She doesn’t seem to have a preference so far but I notice the grain free ones do smell stronger/better. I just started using the Fromm canned food as a topper and boy does she love it, She drools in anticipation! I’m happy she loves her food so much. What’s weird is she actually seems to prefer kibble/canned over raw food. She never drooled when I fed her raw. She just seemed indifferent to it…seems odd as I know most dogs love raw given the choice.

  • Shea

    That’s great! Sadie loves the gamebird flavor! I need to get more samples to see what she would like next. She had the salmon tunalini and the Hasen duckenpfeffer samples and seemed to enjoy those as well.

  • Krista

    I got some samples at my pet store today! The game bird smells fantastic! I also have beef frittata veg, lamb and lentil and the German duck one to try. Thanks for recommending the samples, great idea!

  • Krista

    Good idea, I will go and ask. I like the smell and size of the grain free ones but im not sure if they are all like that… I will definitely go and get some samples that way I know which ones I like. Thanks!

  • Shea

    I’m pretty sure most of the grain free 4 star line is smaller kibble. The grain inclusive has flat wider kibble. The Hasen Duckenpfeffer and Lamb and Lentil are shaped like rabbits and lambs but still small. I think the Gold line is a little bigger sized too. I would see if there are any pet stores in your location that has some samples of Fromm to try out.

  • Krista

    Do you know which varieties of Fromm’s are the smaller kibble size? I like this size kibble because I give my dog potty treats throughout the day and they are the perfect size treat with less than one calorie per kibble. So far I’ve gotten the salmon tunalini and beef frittata veg and they are the smaller size kibbles. Are there any more flavors with this size kibble?

  • aimee

    Hi Krista,

    I think the company is using the term hydrolyzed very loosely and is simply referring to the structural changes that occur to proteins when processed under heat and pressure as used in extrusion.

  • Shea

    I just opened up Fromm gamebird this morning for my little girl. It really doesn’t have the strong smell of the others that are Grain free. Sadie seems to like this flavor the most because she loves duck! See if you can get a sample of gamebird from your store if possible.

  • Krista
  • Krista

    Has anyone noticed the Fromm four star grain free line has a very strong aroma compared to the four star line with grains? I’ve tried beef frittata, salmon tunalini and now chicken a la veg. The first two had a really meaty and cheesy smell but the chicken one is much milder smelling. Does anyone know why this is?

  • aimee


    Can you share the exact question and response? Their ingredient list doesn’t reflect hydrolyzation.

  • Krista

    I emailed them and they confirmed they hydrolyze their proteins. I still think it’s a good food though.

  • Pitlove

    A couple of the 4 Star formulas are on Hound Dog Moms list of LBP foods, however it is a 3 year old list so I would still contact Fromm to make sure the formula has not changed. I do not believe any of the GF Gold line was ever on her list.

  • Krystle Borelli

    Does anyone know if you can feed the grain-free four star line or grain-free heartland gold adult to a 5 month old German Shepherd? Formulated for all life stage?

  • Pitlove

    Hi Krista-

    Did this come from Fromm? I do not see any hydrolyzed proteins on their ingredient list.

  • Krista

    I also use Acana and Orijen

  • Krista

    I just found out Fromm hydrolyzes their proteins. Should I not feed this brand anymore? Are hydrolyzed proteins bad?

  • Shea

    I did try Nature’s Logic for a couple of months but she didn’t really like it or do well on it.

  • theBCnut

    It’s silly, to me, that they worked so hard to make what looks like it should be an excellent product based on a great idea, but fell down so hard on the reality of needing to use proper cuts of meat, instead of just the bony carcass. The type of people who care about feeding this way are willing to pay more, so there’s no reason for it.

  • Crazy4cats

    Thank you, good to know. That’s too bad, isn’t it? The concept and ingredients do look impressive.

  • theBCnut

    I’ve checked back several times over a period of years and the info is virtually unchanged. I like the concept and the quality of their food well enough to feed about 1 bag a year, but really would not trust their nutrient profiles any more than I would trust a food that I was positive was completely unbalanced. In other words, I would happily use it as a part of a meal for a short time, but not as a full meal for any length of time.

  • aimee

    I also like the concept but the company makes me nervous.It was probably several year ago that I pointed out that all the nutrient profile are nearly identical. Scott Freeman told me he only tested the chicken diet and then just changed a few of the numbers for the other profiles.

    At that time he said they had all new nutrient information and it would all be updated. But the profiles really haven’t changed Primary changes I see are in protein,fat, Ca and Phos levels.

    Previously all dry diets reported Ca as 2.123 and now they each have an individual number. All diets exceed AAFCO max for Ca except for the chicken diet which was the diet that used for the feed trial.

    I’ve never seen calcium levels as high as in these diets which to me means that the meals they are using are very high bone content meals.

    I’m uncertain that they are applying the family rule correctly. i will have to look into that further.

    To my eye they haven’t improved. The founders expertise is in marketing and I think that is what the company excels in.

  • Crazy4cats

    Thank you, Aimee. Have you ever checked back in with them to see if they have made any improvements since your last inquiry? I do believe their concept is good, but looks like it may still needs some work?

  • aimee

    Hi Sydney,

    I think some of your post to crazy4cats was in response to my post to you so I’ll answer you.

    In regards to this statement “And Dogs can not process SYNTHETIC vitamin D” can you provide a reference that explains what you mean or perhaps you can elaborate.

    In regards to synthetic vs natural vitamins I don’t disagree that there are differences.

    You gave an example of Vit C. Synthetic sources are more concentrated. I don’t think you can physically eat enough oranges in one day to cause a Vit C problem.. May cause a different problem but not Vit C toxicosis.

    On the other hand if you eat a concentrated natural source of a natural vitamin toxicosis will just as surely result.
    Here is one example

    In regards to this statement “I would also look into AAFCO’s new standards regarding minimum levels of Calcium.”

    I’m well aware of the change and I agree NL won’t need to reformulate to meet the new min. I’m not sure anyone really will.

    My concern is not with the min Ca it is with the Max Ca of some of their diets. As I previously posted, this company exceeds by a wide margin according to the nutritional information they post.

    So we know NL doesn’t meet AAFCO and the company used a food trial to claim nutritional adequacy I’m all for food trials but I also like a product to meet the profile.

    “Also, if it were not complete and balanced the feeding trials would have never been approved”

    Huh?? The food trial was done to determine if the food could be labeled complete and balanced.

    From the nutritional adequacy statement we know that the chicken formula was the tested product. The others supposedly meet the family rule. I say supposedly because according to the information the company posts that is very questionable in my mind.

    As example the family products are to be close in energy density from this site within 7.5%

    NL reports the Chicken as 3678 Kcal/kg that gives us a range of 3402-3954 for product claiming adequacy via the family rule.

    Yet the caloric content of the beef is reported as 3300kcal/kg About 100 below the required range

    Look odd.. and if AAFCO requires the same moisture content between the diets as the link states than it seems the company is invoking the family rule when it should not.

    Also the beef product is reporting Ca levels far exceeding the AAFCO max calcium levels. I have to think that one of the requirements of invoking the family rule is that there are not toxic levels of nutrients in the “family” products. So again I don’t think the company is applying the family rule correctly. Not the first time I’ve come across this.

    Sure I can agree that “he is also a pet food formulator” anyone who formulates a pet food can be called that. Heck I’m a pet food formulator too. Doesn’t mean either of us are very good at it.

  • Crazy4cats

    Haha! Aren’t you funny! ๐Ÿ˜€

  • Bobby dog
  • Crazy4cats

    I agree, millet is a fine ingredient.

  • Sydney

    Because technically millet is a Seasonal Grass Seed, not a grain. AAFCO classifies it as a grain. Hence, better than grain free. If it were not complete and balanced, it would not be able to be sold via AAFCO’s standards. Also, if it were not complete and balanced the feeding trials would have never been approved, also via AAFCO. Maybe worth a browse on their website to view the feeding trials. Unfortunately not everyone is ready to accept that they have been feeding their pets synthesized vitamins and minerals which has been linked to all types of diseases and cancers. That’s why the term “with added vitamins and minerals” is mandated to be on the bags of dog foods that claim they are “all natural” with the exception of Nature’s Logic. Most consumers don’t realize this is a disclaimer and view it as a boast. Which it is most certainly not.

  • Crazy4cats

    In your first post, you said it did not contain grain. As for the rest of your reply to me, I think it was probably meant for Aimee. Btw, I do not have a problem with feeding grains to my dogs. I just wanted others to know who may be reading this thread that NL does indeed contain grains. I looked into at one time and decided it was too expensive for my budget. Plus, I trust Aimee when she says it is not a complete and balanced food. Best wishes to you and your pup/s!

  • Sydney

    It’s not grain free. Millet is a seasonal grass seed, AAFCO classifies it as a grain, but yes it is better than grain free. And Dogs can not process SYNTHETIC vitamin D. I suggest doing some more research on synthetic vitamins versus natural ones. Have you heard of anyone over dosing from vitamin C due to eating too many oranges? No.. but a vitamin C overdose via a tablet or a capsule, absolutely. I would also look into AAFCO’s new standards regarding minimum levels of Calcium. They will be changing this year and Natures Logic products will not have to undergo a formulation change. Yes, Scott has a marketing degree, he is also a pet food formulator. Look into Nature’s Variety.

  • aimee

    In regards to Natures Logic… no grain, no potatoes, no peas, no tapioca.. no problems!”

    I consider it problematic that the foods are abysmally low in some nutrients and catastrophically high in others.

    For example, their beef kibble, NL reports Vit D at 212 IU/4000kcals AAFCO min is 500 and NRC recommended value is 552

    NL reports Vit E at 25.9 IU/4000kcals and AAFCO min is 50

    NL reports their Calcium level as 6.65%/4000kcals and AAFCO max is 2.5% with exception of large breed puppies capped at 1.8%.

    Additionally, I talked to Scott Freeman. He told me he is the food formulator and his degree is in marketing and business not nutrition. That explains why he had no idea that dogs can not synthesize Vit D. He told me the level in the food doesn’t matter because dogs make what they need by sitting in front of a sunny window. …

    I see a lot of problems…..

    I considered using the food intermittently but when he told me the company doesn’t do any type of ingredient testing ….and he wasn’t sure what type of quality control was being done post production or how often it was done. I decided to pass.

  • Crazy4cats

    Nature’s Logic is not grain free. It contains millet. Some say it is a healthier grain, but a grain, no less.

  • Sydney

    Nature’s Logic! Seriously the only food I would recommend other than making your own raw. No synthetic vitamin packs, no grain, no potatoes, no peas, no tapioca.. no problems!

  • Shea

    I’m not going to feed Merrick now since she didn’t like it anyway. She’s on Acana now and is doing good with it stomach wise. Still having trouble with her skin but she’s only been on it for 2 1/2 weeks. I’ve heard that Zignature is very high in sodium. Not quite sure about feeding it. Sadie tried a sample of the Fromm Lamb and Lentil and didn’t like it. She has liked some of Fromm’s other flavors but they contain potato as well.

  • Stephen

    Anyone out there tried ‘small batch’ raw?

  • Stephen

    Merrick got bought out. Potatoe/chicken personally do no care for with an itchy dog. Am currently debating on fromm grainfree lamb/lentil or have also heard goo things about Zignature dogfood. Grain free regardless.

  • Shea

    Thanks so much Susan. I will give this sample to her then this week and see how it goes. I do use a medicated shampoo for her. It’s an antifungal, antimicrobial shampoo. Thanks for the advice. I will look into Holistic Select. She has been on so many foods and keep having problems with her skin.

  • Susan

    Hi when you first try something new just do 1 thing at a time over 1 week period….. I’d give her a bath in a medicated shampoo that moisturizes her skin & kills any bacteria on the skin, I use “Malasab” Medicated shampoo for Patches Allergies, I bath him weekly in the warmer months & fortnightly in the colder months…. It’s winter in America your girl might have dry itchy skin from the heating, it can dry out their skin, find a shampoo that moisturizes her skin…. I’ve been feeding the “Holistic Select” Adult/Puppy Salmon, Anchovy, Sardines grain free, the Omega 3 is nice & high, the Omega 3 should be balanced properly & 1/2 of what the Omega 6% is or a bit more then 1/2 of what the Omega 6% is.,.. Start again & slowly introduce 1 thing at a time…I was also feeding the Holistic Select Senior kibble its guaranteed so if there’s a health problems you can take it back & change or get a refund..

  • Shea

    Hello, I just received a Fromm Lamb and Lentils sample from a pet store yesterday as well as purchasing a sample of Acana Ranchlands. I gave her some of the Acana mixed in with her current food Merrick chicken and sweet potato last night. She seemed to like it. But her rash got worse and I don’t know if this food caused it. I also gave her a sample of an omega 3, 6, 9 oil that was given to me too. She has had a rash off and on the last few days and I was looking for something that she would do better on besides Merrick. She also has yeast issues occasionally. I just want some opinions on what would be the best option for her.

  • Krista


    For the people that feed a rotational diet, how many brands do you use in your rotation? I’m thinking like 2-4 would be good. What’s your thoughts on this? So far I’m thinking of rotating between Acana and Fromm grain free. My dog is doing really well on these brands.

  • Spencer Martin

    I was feeding the surf & turf, but my dog started getting hot spots. I’d recommend checking out Muenster’s new grain free. Dehydrated Chicken and Coconut Meal, family owned company as well. Liked Fromm, but had to move on.

  • Nancy

    Yes, then def take her off that. you can introduce it again when she is grown.
    I have had great luck with Now Fresh ( it is pricey but chewy. com is the cheapest I have found it ) My 8 mo old pup is on the lg breed puppy food ( nice size kibble ) And I have my 2 year old on the lg breed adult. Great results all around ๐Ÿ™‚ is their site.

  • Marie Abate

    Thank you for responding. She is large breed. A German shepherd.

  • Nancy

    Not sure what size your puppy is, but if it’s a large breed, Zignature has too high of calcium for them to properly grow.
    When I had my girls on Fromm, they pooped…alot!
    I have My girls on Now Fresh and are doing fab, firm stool, a few poos a day. They also make a Go! line as well.
    I’ve also rotated in Zignature Turkey recently ( every other feeding) My adult doesn’t seem to be having a problem ( just a bit of gas ) but it’s not every feeding, so that could change lol But she sure loves it!

  • Marie Abate

    i want to start my dog on fromm lamb and lentils. how is her stool? right now we are feeding her Zignature Turkey and she is pooping 4-5 times a day i been reading that is to much and i need to switch foods so i been reading up on fromm

  • Marie Abate

    I been feeding my puppy Zignature Turkey Formula. I have been reading some not so great stuff about it. Such as her going #2 (poop) 4-5 X’S a day so so great and that its very high in sodium. Any recommendations on what kind of food i should switch her too

  • Diane

    Thank you!!!

  • theBCnut

    I don’t believe that peas are any more allergenic than any other single protein. My dog with multiple food allergies has no issue with peas. As far as starch goes, any kibble is going to have quite a bit of starch because starch is what helps kibble hold its shape. Good luck finding a kibble that works for your dog.

  • Diane

    Oh thank you! That helps me to feel better!! I will give it a try. Getting the Lamb and Lentils!

  • Crazy4cats

    Luckily, my dogs do fine with peas. It seems that most grain free kibble includes them. I guess the only way to find out is to give it a try! Transition to the new food very slowly if it helps make you and the dog feel better. In the past three or so years that I have been participating on this site, only a couple have reported having a problem with peas. Best of luck to you!

  • Diane

    I was going to try Fromm’s Lamb and Lentil but am concerned about the peas as a starch and an allergen? Any thoughts. Thanks

  • Diane

    Thank you so much! I did read about the one recall and they took the canned food off the shelves that were affected with possibly too much Vitamin D. No biggie compared to other recalls with other companies.

  • Pitlove

    Hi Diane-

    Fromm has been manufacturing dog food for roughly 65 years. As of March 2016 they went through their first recall. You can find info on it on this website under the recall list. A recall should not automatically mean the food is bad and should not be used. It is important, regardless of why the recall happened, to evaluate how the company handled the recall. Fromm is a great company with a long standing reputation.

    No they do not use ingredients from China.

    Best of luck! If you do decide to use Fromm, I hope it works for your boy.

  • Diane

    My yorkie boy is suffering terrible from allergies. I was going to try the Lamb and Lentil just want to make sure this company has no recalls and they do not have any ingredients from China or Asia. Good luck with your baby too

  • Diane

    My baby has those now I have tried so many different foods I am at my wits end

  • Diane

    I have read and heard that Hills Science Diet is really not a good food at all

  • Diane

    Yes I do and am having a problem finding a grainfree food he will eat that is a good quality food with no poultry. I am going to try the Fromm Lamb and Lentil
    and pray it helps him

  • theBCnut

    Usually, they mean TOTW, Taste of the Wild.

  • Jill Laurich Malison

    What is ‘TOW”?

  • Francesca G

    Stay away from Zignature kibble. The sodium level in their foods are VERY high. My dog was on Salmon & Trout and their sodium level is 2.00%. They do not include the sodium % on their label nor do they mention it on their web site. I called the company when my dog started to drink a lot of water. My vet said to get her off Zignature because high sodium is very bad for dogs hearts. I switched my dog to Acana Wild Atlantic and I rotate with Acana Fresh Water. Both are GREAT kibbles.

  • sandy

    The foster pugs around here all do well on Nutrisource grain free and Pro Pac Ultimates grain free. We switch flavors all the time. For higher protein foods, they’ve eaten Zignature, Weruva, Wellness Core/Trufood, Nature’s Logic and Fromm kibbles.

  • Crazy4cats

    Hi Lisa-
    I have fed TOW, but usually rotate between Whole Earth Farms, Nutrisource and Victor kibble. They are all priced about the same as TOW. Maybe one of them could work for your dogs. I also add toppers to every meal. Such as, eggs, tripe, canned food, sardines and commercial raw.

    I’ve heard mostly all good things about Fromm, but have not fed it yet. I hope you find something that works for your pups.

  • Lisa

    Our pug Oliver is having diarrhea on TOW and we’ve tried all their flavors, always slowing transitioning to avoid upset stomachs. We love TOW but unsure what to do at this point.

    Some history over the years. When we first started them on TOW was around 2012 and the dogs flourished, beautiful coats. We later read that Costco’s signature brand was equivalent to TOW and they didn’t seem to be loving TOW as much so we tried it and dogs loved it no problems.I took them off of it when I read people’s dogs were getting very sick, may have been isolated but we tried Canidae dry food. They didn’t care for it but ate it and poops were normal. I didn’t want to give them food that was obvious to me they didn’t love so we started them back on TOW.

    Boston terrier Oreo eats the dry formula pacific stream salmon but lately they stare at it a while and no longer clean their bowls. We reached out to TOW who sent us Diamond samples as well as other TOW samples to help but dogs pretty much looked at it and stared. We started to add TOW canned food (not much) to the dry and it helps them finish their food. Oliver is now on explosive diarrhea. The org we rescued Oliver from mentioned a few different brands and mentioned Fromms. Hoping to find some help and get them on the right food. Love TOW but it’s not working for Oliver any more.

  • Charles Bridgers


    We feed our Golden/Aussie mix the Heartland LBP and she does great. We had to get her on the red meat diet do to a chicken meal intolerance. She’s always had a panting issue, which we noticed increased with certain meats so we are switching her, keeping her on Fromm, now that she’s a year old to food based off duck so that gives us one of the Fromm Four stars.

    People are often scared to try new food for the fear of wasting money. We’ve tried many foods from chewy (have 5 cats and 2 dogs) and they will refund you in a heartbeat if your dog doesnt like it. Stores will as well.

    Our 5month Golden Retreiver is on Blue WIlderness LBP, but Im going to switch him over to the Heartland LBP and hopefulyl he does well on it.

  • bojangles

    Hi Pitlove,

    You never posted the names of any of the foods you mentioned:

    “Many foods that look excellent on paper have low bioavailability and don’t digest well”

    I’m not really asking for myself because I feed my dogs a home made diet. I just thought that if someone were feeding their dogs one of the foods you were talking about that had low bio-availability and didn’t digest well, they would want to know

    Thanks Pitlove ๐Ÿ™‚

  • theBCnut

    Some claim that there are good reasons to add alfalfa, like it’s a good source of chlorophyll, but dog’s really can’t get much out of it, so it’s good on paper, not so much in real life.

    A friend told me about a food I have never heard of that might work for him. I’m not unfamiliar with making homemade food, in fact that’s what the majority of his diet is, but I do like to keep him on some kibble so when I’m not home a family member can feed him.

  • Krystle Borelli

    Yikes that doesn’t even sound right… That doesn’t make sense why they would use hay. Some of the ingredients I like in the new Orijen and others I don’t. That’s why I was having a hard time deciding what I want to keep my shepherd on. I think I’m just going to stick with Fromm.

    I hope you can find something that will work for you’re pup!

  • Krystle Borelli

    Thank you ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Crazy4cats

    Good or bad, depending on your opinion, all kibble has to contain some type of starch to hold all the ingredients together. My dogs do great on food that uses potatoes, (both sweet and white) as the binder. Good luck with the Fromm. Hope it works out for you!

  • theBCnut

    I can’t use the new formula at all. I was using the Pork and Butternut squash singles for my dog with food allergies. In fact, it was the only kibble I could find with none of his triggers. The new formula has one of his triggers in it. I don’t know why they thought adding hay to their food would be an improvement, but I emailed to ask about it and they sent me a canned response saying that all their fur mulls changes are meant to improve their product.