Royal Canin Breed Health Nutrition Adult (Dry)


Rating: ★★½☆☆

Royal Canin Breed Health Nutrition Adult dog food receives the Advisor’s second-lowest tier rating of 2.5 stars.

The Royal Canin Breed Health Nutrition product line includes 17 dry dog foods, each claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for adult maintenance.

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

  • Royal Canin Pug
  • Royal Canin Boxer
  • Royal Canin Beagle
  • Royal Canin Bulldog
  • Royal Canin Shih Tzu
  • Royal Canin Rottweiler
  • Royal Canin Chihuahua
  • Royal Canin Dachshund
  • Royal Canin French Bulldog
  • Royal Canin Cocker Spaniel
  • Royal Canin Poodle (2 stars)
  • Royal Canin Golden Retriever
  • Royal Canin Yorkshire Terrier
  • Royal Canin Labrador Retriever
  • Royal Canin German Shepherd
  • Royal Canin Miniature Schnauzer
  • Royal Canin West Highland White Terrier (2 stars)

Royal Canin Yorkshire Terrier was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Royal Canin Yorkshire Terrier

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 29% | Fat = 18% | Carbs = 45%

Ingredients: Brewers rice, brown rice, chicken by-product meal, chicken fat, wheat gluten, corn gluten meal, corn, natural flavors, powdered cellulose, dried plain beet pulp, fish oil, grain distillers dried yeast, vegetable oil, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, sodium silico aluminate, fructooligosaccharides, sodium tripolyphosphate, salt, taurine, hydrolyzed yeast, vitamins [dl-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin supplement, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), d-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], dl-methionine, choline chloride, magnesium oxide, l-lysine, glucosamine hydrochloride, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta l.), trace minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, copper proteinate], tea, l-carnitine, chondroitin sulfate, rosemary extract, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 5.6%

Red items indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
Guaranteed Analysis26%16%NA
Dry Matter Basis29%18%45%
Calorie Weighted Basis25%37%39%
Protein = 25% | Fat = 37% | Carbs = 39%

The first ingredient in this dog food is brewers rice. Brewers rice is a cereal grain by-product consisting of the small fragments left over after milling whole rice. Aside from the caloric energy it contains, this item is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The second ingredient is brown rice, a complex carbohydrate that (once cooked) can be fairly easy to digest. However, aside from its natural energy content, rice is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The third ingredient is chicken by-product meal, a dry rendered product of slaughterhouse waste. It’s made from what’s left of a slaughtered chicken after all the prime cuts have been removed.

In addition to organs (the nourishing part), this stuff can contain almost anything — feet, beaks, undeveloped eggs — anything except feathers.

On the brighter side, by-product meals are meat concentrates and contain nearly 300% more protein than fresh chicken.

In any case, although this item contains all the amino acids a dog needs, we consider chicken by-products an inexpensive, lower quality ingredient.

The fourth ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is obtained from rendering chicken, a process similar to making soup in which the fat itself is skimmed from the surface of the liquid.

Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid, an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing, chicken fat is actually a quality ingredient.

The fifth ingredient is wheat gluten. Gluten is the rubbery residue remaining once wheat has had most of its starchy carbohydrate washed out of it.

Although wheat gluten contains 80% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

And less costly plant-based products like this can notably boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The sixth ingredient is corn gluten meal, another plant-based protein booster.

Although corn gluten meal contains 60% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

The seventh ingredient includes corn. Corn is an inexpensive and controversial cereal grain. And aside from its energy content, this grain is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

For this reason, we do not consider corn a preferred component in any dog food.

After the natural flavor, we find powdered cellulose, a non-digestible plant fiber usually made from the by-products of vegetable processing. Except for the usual benefits of fiber, powdered cellulose provides no nutritional value to a dog.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With five notable exceptions

First, beet pulp is a controversial ingredient, a high fiber by-product of sugar beet processing.

Some denounce beet pulp as an inexpensive filler while others cite its outstanding intestinal health and blood sugar benefits.

We only call your attention here to the controversy and believe the inclusion of beet pulp in reasonable amounts in most dog foods is entirely acceptable.

Next, we find grain distillers dried yeast, also known as GDDY.

GDDY is an ingredient obtained from the fermentation of cereal grains separated from distilling mash as a by-product of the ethanol (biofuel) industry.

This low-quality item is typically found in cattle feeds and is only rarely used to make pet food.

Although it contains over 40% protein, GDDY would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

What’s more, less costly plant-based products like this can notably boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the meat content of this dog food.

In addition, we note the inclusion of vegetable oil, a generic oil of unknown origin in this recipe. The ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fats in any oil is nutritionally critical and can vary significantly (depending on the source).

Without knowing more, it’s impossible to judge the quality of an item so vaguely described. However, compared to a named animal fat, a generic vegetable oil cannot be considered a quality ingredient.

Next, this recipe contains fructooligosaccharide, an alternative sweetener1 probably used here as a prebiotic. Prebiotics function to support the growth of healthy bacteria in the large intestine.

And lastly, this food also includes chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Royal Canin Breed Health
Nutrition Adult Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Royal Canin Breed Health Nutrition Adult looks like a below-average dry dog food.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 29%, a fat level of 18% and estimated carbohydrates of about 45%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 27% and a mean fat level of 16%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 49% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 59%.

Near-average protein. Near-average fat. And near-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

When you consider the protein-boosting effect of the wheat gluten and corn gluten meal, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a moderate amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Royal Canin Breed Health Nutrition Adult is a plant-based dry dog food using a moderate amount of chicken by-product meal as its main source of animal protein, thus earning the brand 2.5 stars.

Not recommended.

Please note certain recipes are sometimes given a higher or lower rating based upon our estimate of their total meat content and (when appropriate) their fat-to-protein ratios.

Royal Canin Dog Food
Recall History

The following list (if present) includes all dog food recalls since 2009 directly related to this product line. If there are no recalls listed in this section, we have not yet reported any events.

You can view a complete list of all dog food recalls sorted by date. Or view the same list sorted alphabetically by brand.

To learn why our ratings have nothing to do with a product’s recall history, please visit our Dog Food Recalls FAQ page.

Get free dog food recall alerts sent to you by email. Subscribe to The Advisor’s recall notification list.

Dog Food Coupons
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A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

The Dog Food Advisor does not test dog food products.

We rely almost entirely on the integrity of the information posted by each company on its website. As such, the accuracy of every review is directly dependent upon the quality of the test results from any specific batch of food a company chooses to publish.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, due to the biological uniqueness of every animal, none of our ratings are intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in a specific dietary response or health benefit for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

However, we do receive a fee from for each purchase made as a direct result of a referral from our website. This fee is a fixed dollar amount and has nothing to do with the size of an order or the brand selected for purchase.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

12/18/2015 Last Update

  • Jason Shwagner

    Easily the most overrated and overpriced brand out there. Before I knew about dog food ingredients I fed my Chi this stuff and he did ok on it. After I switched him to a top tier food he at first didnt do well then he did, and now he looks excellent and hasnt aged a day in 5 years. Many ppl are easily duped by the “Royal” in the name apparently. There are a ton of better kibbles out there for same or less money and even the super premium stuff isnt much more per month to feed at all if you have a smaller dog. Just because a dog gets the runs for a day or two from a good food doesnt mean anything its just them getting used to the new food. If it persists for weeks then yes its time to find a good food that agrees with them.

  • doar

    I was feeding my two small dogs royal Canin small dog kibble for years. Recently I switched to Coseco supplied Kirkland lamb and Rice with vegetables. The R.C analysis showed less beneficial ingredients than the Kirkland. Two independent analyses showed much better value for the buck in the Kirkland brand. Kirkland cost per lb ( Canadian) . 60 cents. R.C cost per pound $3.50. The more healthy ingredients plus much cheaper cost makes Kirkland a much better deal.

  • Crazy4cats

    Agreed! When you add fresh unprocessed food to kibble, it definitely improves the nutritional value of the meal.

  • Jeff

    I have a Havanese and i had been feeding her this since she was born. I get the analysis that the article makes. But if you get these “real meat” dog chow & then feed fido a table treat of meat youself then now youre going overboard. My dog gets a tootsie roll size of grilled chicken once a day and if thats all it takes to make this chow good and shes never had liquid stools ever then im on board.

  • Dominik Pospíšil

    Hello, it is awesome! I am just starting (czech) website and i would like to translate this post there. It will be great if you can send me some pictures of your dog for example during the problems and after. My mail is: pospa93 @ (on gmail com) Thank you!

  • Nick

    I would like to comment on this post. I have a 1 1/2 year old English Bulldog. Since day 1 he had the runs and no matter what expensive, non expensive food we placed him on he still had, stomach, gas and skin issues. I did not want to try Royal Canin Bulldog because I had heard bad things about it, and everyone always told me that how can a company know exactly what my dog needs. I finally gave in a bought a bag and had him try it. He gobbled it down and since he’s been on it, his skins cleared up, no gas, lots of energy, and his stools are small and not runny. I know you gave it a bad review but from what I can tell the food seems to be working just fine.

  • aimee

    To me it smells pretty much the same as cooking any other type of ground meat.

  • Pitlove

    We all make food recommendations on here. Most people coming here are looking for advice on what to feed their dog and want other peoples experiences of what has worked for them. Especially if they have a dog that has gone through what their dog is going through.

    You have every right to make recommendations if you want to. If you choose not to that is your right too.

  • aimee

    In regards to “you do tend to put your own spin on a discussion.” I think it is inevitable that people write from a particular perspective based on their own background and experiences.

    I think I’m pretty thick skinned in this regard “You are quick to be offended by negative comments made to you” … heck just recently someone posted that I was dishonest and disingenuous and I was more puzzled than offended by those comments. When someone attributes me as saying something that I’ve never said I want that corrected. There has been only one time I really remember being offended in the 3+? years I’ve been posting here. That’s when someone.. I don’t recall who at the moment, asked me something along the lines of “Did you even read the article?” I did find that insulting.

    In regards to this “”chuckle” at my post after I stated my reason for my method used.”
    If you are referring to the discussion on the weight loss thread I wasn’t chuckling at your method. What I was chuckling about was when I used your method exactly as you outlined it you chastised me for applying it to the food I applied it to.

    In regards to “You use the term “fairy dust” for more natural means of treating simple GI upset, which seems very condesending at best.”

    I explained why I used the term, it was not used in relation to using natural methods. It is in relation to how and under what circumstances those methods are used

    “If a dog is seriously ill” …. this is by far the reason I don’t give direct advice to people. Very serious illnesses can have very very minor symptoms.

    In regards to the Gravy Train post I’m not seeing “followed by some kind posts offering alternatives to gravy train” I saw one that wasn’t hostile but I know disqus doesn’t always show past discussions well.

    When I come onto DFA I skim the recent comment section. As I remember it I read the original post followed by a lot of unkind posts directed to the OP. I was saddened by that so I posted what I did as a small way of letting the OP know that the observation of how the dog was doing was a valid contribution.

    When someone is hostile you can be hostile in kind or repsond with kindness, and welcome and invite them into the conversation.

  • aquariangt

    unrelated, but how does raw food smell when you saute it?

  • aimee

    Hi Storms Mom,

    I’m hoping you’ll help me be a better poster.

    You wrote “(and falls squarely into that “disingenuous” category we talked about
    earlier ..and jives with your often evasive, indirect and convoluted
    responses when anyone tries to get you to be specific on what you feed
    your dogs

    I went through my comment history to find how I’ve answered questions regarding what I feed my dogs because I don’t want to be any of those things that you said I am. I went through a lot of posts and found one asking me about what companies I like and one about what I feed. I’m sure there are more but I these were the ones I found in order of going back through pasts ‘d have to go back a lot farther to find others.

    I’m hoping you’ll tell me what is evasive and indirect and convoluted about my responses to these questions.

    losul asked “I also am interested in which companies pass the muster for you, other
    than the big 4 or 5. I know you have really surprised me a few times in
    the past. I think you mentioned before that you fed some Stella and
    Chewy’s? And Primal venison formula (lightly cooked)?”

    and I answered “I liked Natura but they now count as a big 3 member so they don’t count
    :). If I was going to feed raw I’d prob use Natures Variety. I didn’t
    like that it took them so long to recall after the odor problem. I’ve
    liked Fresh Pet but they have been having some mold problems and I’m not
    sure how they are addressing it. I haven’t seen a recall and that
    concerns me. I’ve liked and have fed Annamaet . Wellness is another
    company I’d feel pretty comfortable using. When I talked to the Lotus
    company at the Expo I liked the answers to my questions but I haven’t
    really delved into the company. Fromm interests me as well but again
    haven’t looked too deeply at that company.”

    Here is another example “Another question I have for you that you’ve probably mentioned somewhere
    and I just don’t remember is, do you feed any commercial raw foods and
    if so, which ones? I don’t have a head for being able to figure out all
    you’re able to so I’m sure you’ve already analyzed any that you would
    be feeding. And….do you feed a rotational diet with commercial raw
    and kibble?”

    and I answered “I ‘ve used commercial raw but I saute it and used only as a topper.
    The ones I’ve used are based on protein source not nutrient analysis.
    Jack is on a limited venison based diet and I use Primal Venison and
    Stella and Chewy Freeze dried Venison as some of his toppers. His kibble
    remains RC Venison/Potato. I don’t mess with his diet much as he and I
    have gotten burned a few times. But he gets a variety of veggies and
    fruits without problems and seem to tolerate chicken or fresh cooked
    beef or pork in small amounts.

    Brooke primarily eats Pro Plan.
    Honestly she does the best on that brand of kibble. I’ll throw in other
    bags here and there (Wellness, Annamaet, Hill’s) but when she stays on
    those other brands for more than 6 weeks or so coat will start to
    suffer. Brooke doesn’t get any commercial raw and toppers are primarily
    what I have for dinner or some canned Purina One if I don’t have
    anything of mine to add to hers. Last night she had pork, broccoli and
    green beans. Occasionally I’ll home cook a large batch of food to use
    as topper for her and Jack based on the recipe from Dr Wynn’s site.

    Are you saying I’m evasive because in this post I sometimes only listed the companies and not the exact formulas?

    Thanks in advance for your input

  • Crazy4cats

    I am quite confident that you take excellent care of your dogs. I value and enjoy your posts as well and have tried some of your recommendations. I had tried canned food with tripe before and it wasn’t good. But the raw stuff unfortunately (due to stink) worked wonders!

  • aimee

    I have no reason to not be honest.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Not at all C4C! I think there are so many options of food out there to choose from with better reputations, but everyone is welcome to the party. I also feel there is no “perfect food”.

    This wouldn’t even have happened if I wasn’t challenged to find the links.

    And I DO believe in “fairy dust”.

    Even though I’ve been researching foods for many years, especially since the 2007 problems, a few years ago, I was challenged to research foods even further to help my old dog in CRF eat something other than K/D. He was always a self regulator, but as he got older, he got worse and very picky. Unfortunately, the problem was probably due to some preventable liver issues. Many years ago, I also used NSAIDS per my vet’s recommendation, which caused liver issues and finally the kidney failure in my old dog.

    So, that’s where I’m coming from and will at least look at the “fairy dust” and try some that seem worth trying. I know there are many things that only work, as Shawna said, in certain situations. There are some that don’t work well, but there are some that work very well and I’ve been able to keep my current “old” dog (my avatar) in great shape and very playful even though plagued with some of the former old dog’s joint problems and a few dental issues on top of it(aggressive chewing). She has never had an NSAID is eating even better than the other dog and seems to be aging nicely.

    BTW, Green Tripe is excellent for dogs, very stinky, and is low in phosphorus making it an excellent protein source for dogs in renal failure. 😉

  • aimee

    I’ve spent a lot of time in the classroom… on both sides of the podium.. more on the one than the other. It is my sister though who was/is the smart one in the family and as for my husband I’m a bit biased but I find him utterly brilliant. He wants to go to law school when he retires.. you know just for fun. I tried it wasn’t my cup o’ tea

  • aimee

    So very well said. Thanks you!

  • Bobby dog

    I agree and appreciate your attempted interventions of the piling on that happens when someone posts an unpopular view point. One of my favorite professors once told me that the most important thing you can do is plant the seeds. You might not see them grow, but know that you planted them. When someone is shamed or brow beaten for their choices they will more than likely not be receptive to any information regardless of anyone’s intentions. The dog is the one that suffers not the snarky or uninformed poster.

  • Bobby dog

    “Despite,” sorry I don’t agree with that. He IS getting a well rounded diet IMO with how you choose to feed him regardless of his health issues. You just can’t do any better than adding fresh foods to our pets’ diets.

    I believe in a rotational diet and feed it to most of my zoo, however I have two senior cat hold outs. It used to bother me, but the more research I do on the subject it doesn’t anymore. Fingers always crossed, each wellness visit is perfect; they will be 17 this year. They get as much variety as they choose, but it’s not much and that’s okay for them.

  • Pitlove

    Aimee- WOW just WOW! That is highly impressive to me as someone who loves learning and loves college. I too did not do well in highschool and grade school and found college much more to my liking.
    I appreciate you sharing that in the past for us and now as it gives me some insight into how much of what you write on here is based on education.

  • Crazy4cats

    So this is a “Dont ask, don’t tell” site? All the Purina, Rx, and non-diet rotaters must stay in the closet? LOL! I don’t think you are giving the participants of this site enough credit. I think most are able to draw their own conclusions from the discussions. I read Aimee’s posts with interest and respect, but I still try the “fairy” dust for my dogs’ digestive issues! Which, btw, has improved greatly when I add a little bit of frozen green lamb tripe! Yum!! (very stinky) It is very healthy, in my opinion, to have as much information and different points of view as possible.

  • Crazy4dogs

    LOL! If the pay was good, it would be!

  • Bobby dog

    I will second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth that statment!!!!

  • Bobby dog

    My dream job, “professional student.”

  • aimee

    Thanks Pitlove !,

    Years ago I posted this about myself when someone inquired. It is likely more detail then necessary.

    “My My
    I didn’t realize I was a person of such great mystery and motive. I
    outlined my “motive” on another thread If you’ll are interested you can
    read all about it Purina HA. Long story short a poster named Jewel had
    written that the diet saved her dog’s life. The diet was labeled as
    “trash” “rat poison” etc and she was labeled as a shill from Purina.
    All for posting a simple observation, an observation that wasn’t
    accepted by the “community” because it wasn’t in line with their
    preconceived beliefs. It was/is very sad, so I presented the other
    side.. and still do because people who post an observation not in line
    with popular opinion on this site continue to be invalidated.

    Toxed2loss.. not answering your question was a simple oversite on my
    part that’s all… no biggie… no drama . I do not work for a dog
    food company

    But what is it you need to know? Do you need to know that in grade
    school I was the kid that didn’t fit in? I was bullied and beat by my
    classmates and held down and colored upon with markers. In high
    school I could get lost in the crowd. I graduated 7 out of a class over
    over 600. I didn’t apply myself… what can I say…. It came as quite a
    shock to me that in college I couldn’t read novels and do crosswords in
    class as I did in high school.

    I was a bio major never finished the degree, later a psych major..
    didn’t finish that degree either. I married my teacher and we have
    a daughter. I like to learn and since hubby is a professor at
    a University I get to take classes for free . I have taken 14 credit
    hours in general physiology, 3 in endocrine, 3 in reproductive phys, 4
    in behavioral phys,, 5 in nutrition 8 in anatomy, 3 in neuro-anatomy
    and physiology, 8 hours Gen Chem, 10 in organic chem and 3 in biochem. 4
    hours in physics,12 in statistics, advanced statistics and research
    methods …..I even took a class in Death and Dying Do you want my
    full academic record cause it is really really long? I was awarded
    academic honors in biology, chemistry and physics I think my GPA was
    3.92/4 Took a law class along the way… what can I say, I have no
    excuse just wasn’t my thing. Guess you can say I’m a professional

    I’ve done a bit of freelance writing. If you look real hard on the
    web you can find me. Knock yourself out. I was nominated for
    a journalist award. I thought it an honor just to be nominated English
    and writing are not my strong suits. Guess that makes me a professional

    I’ve guest lectured at the University in the Science, Pysch, and
    Religious studies departments. I’ve covered classes when Profs were out
    of town. Guess that makes me a teacher.

    I’ve taught dog training classes so guess that makes me a trainer.

    I play clarinet and occasionally perform. Guess that makes me a
    musician . Most meaningful review was from my 5 year old neighbor. My
    window was open when I was playing Mozart’s Clarinet Concerto, an
    absolutely beautiful piece, you should listen to it if you haven’t. She
    told her Mom.. “Listen Mom… the angels are singing”

    I ride horses… but no where near a professional equestrian level LOL

    Currently I’ve been asked to review a behavior book before it goes
    to press. I’m behind deadline. Guess that makes me a professional
    procrastinator : )

    Most importantly I’m a wife and mother.

    I hope that quells your curiosity”

    A few things have changed since then, but that gives you an overview. : )

  • aimee

    I post to share a different perspective.

  • aimee

    As I said “I realize that the OP didn’t make the kindest of remarks either.”

  • Crazy4dogs

    LOL! I had a dog like that. He wasn’t spoiled, just old.

  • aquariangt

    Because cats hate all the things. The amount of money I’ve wasted trying to get my cat to eat…

  • Crazy4dogs

    It would be nice if we could somehow move the entire conversation over to “Off Topic” easily. Blue Buffalo has a ridiculously long discussion on risks/benefits of garlic as well.

    My reason for the links is aimee challenged that she doesn’t endorse some particular products.

    C4C, I don’t care if she feeds Purina or recommends it, but there is a definite bias against natural products with her “scientific evidence” and endorsements of vet diets when people aren’t even looking for a vet diet. (weight loss discussion). There is also a huge discount of using more natural methods that posters suggest after having success with them (fairy dust).

    It’s unfortunate that on many of the “natural diet” reviews there is a continuous conclusion by aimee of how these diets are insufficient and nutritionally deficient as opposed to Purina Dog Chow (yet another discussion). It seems that many are disuaded from other options that do seem to work for many posters. This is why this discussion occurred.

  • aimee

    Storm’s Mom I made the comment as a way of showing that I don’t only feed the Big 3. That was the purpose of the comment. They are full size products that I’m feeding to the dogs and cats in my home. They dogs also get fresh daily and some days only fresh. The cats don’t like my cooking.

  • Crazy4cats

    Well, in the above post from c4d, she lists several links where Aimee is sharing what she feeds her dogs, and I believe she is implying that she shouldn’t share what she feeds because they do not meet her standards. (Hopefully, I’m wrong) Now, you are saying she doesn’t share what she feeds. Which is it? Is she “allowed” to or not. All I know is that is thread is being turned upside down with comments that don’t belong in the Royal Canin thread.

  • aimee

    As I said no matter what I do people will find fault. If I list what foods I feed I’m making direct recommendations that I think others should feed them and if I don’t list them I’m disingenuous convoluted and evasive.

    Because I first evaluate a food by evaluating a company I do form opinions about companies/products without having fed the foods

  • Bobby dog

    Hi Storm’s Mom:
    Aimee does/has shared what she feeds. I don’t know what her rotation is currently, but within this year the brands she fed were Annameat Lean, EVO weight mgt., Wellness Core reduced fat, Stella and Chewy FD, and Primal FD, along with Pro Plan and Jack’s RC.

  • aimee

    Thank You for the kind words Bobbydog. I too feel that he gets a well rounded diet despite me using the same base to work off of.

  • aimee

    Thanks..Crazy4cats…What you said brought tears to my eyes…

  • aimee

    I utilize kibble to meet part of their requirements likely for the same reasons as others do: cost and convenience. They also do get fresh foods everyday and on somedays only fresh.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I respect that you have a good knowledge of many issues, but you do tend to put your own spin on a discussion. You are quick to be offended by negative comments made to you, yet you “chuckle” at my post after I stated my reason for my method used. You use the term “fairy dust” for more natural means of treating simple GI upset, which seems very condesending at best.

    If a dog is seriously ill, I don’t think there’s a regular poster here that doesn’t preface every comment with suggesting a vet visit to insure there is nothing more wrong than just an adjustment to a new food. I’ve seen many posts encouraging the owner to take the dog to the vet immediately. EPI is definitely in that category. Unfortunately, owners often turn to a site like this rather than going to the vet. If it is just a mild upset due to a new food, the “fairy dust” is often a good choice.

    The gravy train post you are referring to began with the poster (bp) starting with a negative comment followed by some kind posts offering alternatives to gravy train. bp followed with making very negative comments, and I think it got some posters commenting only after there were some very nasty comments thrown in by the original poster (which he deleted and became a guest on those posts).
    I agree that some of the comments seem nasty and are never the correct way to handle situations, but in this case, I feel the poster started the situation. So, the purpose of your comment was to welcome a guest who was hostile and name calling from the very first post?
    I must admit, you do spin things around in a most creative way.

  • Pitlove

    Gravy Train post aside, clearly you are an educated person. I do not know your background or what you do for work or how you have some of the information that you have, however I and I’m sure others have found it useful. While all of us here might not agree with your liking of the Big 3, you are a valuable poster here and have good information to share.

    You do have the right to your own opinions about dog food whether we agree with you or not. If you have good results with ProPlan great. I didn’t. Oh well, it happens.

  • Storm’s Mom

    ….but she doesn’t “share her experiences” OR “what she feeds her dogs” at all. That’s the entire point. She says she provides “conclusions” and “information” on products she’s “familiar with”, but the posts that she actually “shares her experiences” or indicates “what she feeds her dogs” are few and far between.

  • Pitlove

    Regarding your comments on this post on the Gravy Train review I’d like to go back and show you the original posters comment since you felt it was not important enough to show WHY she was not met nicely.

    bp wrote: “I feed my dog gravy train everyday! She is a beautiful healthy bully! She loves gravy train!! I give her treats as well! She is NOT unhealthy by any means. People are just dog snobs and have the money to spend on nothing.”

    This poster was not met with nice remarks about his/her choice of food given the rude comment at the end about people who choose higher quality food being “dog snobs”. Since you decided to link some of the things I said to this poster without linking my entire post I feel the need to point this out to you. I usually try to be respectful of your opinions Aimee even though I disagree completely that Purina or any product similar to it should even exist however if you are going to copy paste things I post to people who are coming on this site with an arrogant and rude attitude post the WHOLE thing and don’t intentionally try to make me look bad. Or anyone else on this site for that matter.

    That is probably the poorest example of the comments usually made by regular posters on here.

  • Storm’s Mom

    Which are the other 4 dog food products/brands, and are you actually feeding them or just have them on hand to do an “experiment” with and then knock down on here later?

  • Storm’s Mom

    You say you only comment on the brands with which you are familiar, and you only post “positively” on Purina’s or RC’s diets (and “negatively” on a couple other brands’ reviews) provide info on your “conclusions” …but you don’t want people to conclude that the pages on which you comment are the brands you’re feeding because you say you don’t conclude that of others?! That makes no sense (and falls squarely into that “disingenuous” category we talked about earlier). Besides which, almost everyone other than you makes it abundantly clear what they are feeding, so there’s no “conclusions” necessary.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I agree el doctor! I think dogs do deserve some fresh food fed daily, if not exclusively. I realize there is a cost/time factor that makes people turn to kibble as the main diet, but every living thing should be eating fresh, less processed food. It would certainly solve a lot (not all) of the current health issues in people and animals.

  • Bobby dog

    Hi Aimee:
    I don’t think Jack would be alive today and have the wonderful quality of life he enjoys if you didn’t find each other. You are both lucky! IMO a rotational diet of fresh foods, as you provide for Jack, is one of the best ways to provide a nutritional variety for a dog.

  • Crazy4cats

    I also thought that was the purpose of this blog. I share my experiences and what I feed my dogs often. I also make recommendations based on my experiences. As do most of the regulars on here. I’m sorry you are being singled out and aren’t “allowed” to because your opinions are different. Keep doing what you do!

  • el doctor

    Hi aimee

    You are without a doubt the most effective Purina enthusiast I have ever known!

    The golden rule is often broken when it comes to people who feed Purina. They get vilified in a way that would be unacceptable if the same thing was done to people who feed a 5 star popular food.

    I do understand some of the reasons you have given for feeding foods like Purina.

    Why don’t you feed your dogs a home prepared diet consisting of fresh, minimally processed foods?

    What do you think is different about the canine species that makes it okay to feed an ultra processed kibble day in and day out when that would never be accepted as a sound choice for a person?

    Why do you think that dogs wouldn’t appreciate and benefit from a fresh varied diet like we do?

    You certainly have the knowledge to prepare a nutritionally balanced diet for your dogs.

    So I guess what I’m saying is while I understand and agree with some of your arguments in the big company versus little company debate, what I don’t understand is why those are the only two options for you.

  • aimee

    Storm’s Mom

    First example: When I read a review of something I don’t conclude that is what the author drives, feeds, uses etc. So we differ in that respect.

    Second example: As I replied to Crazy4dogs the comment was to head off the “your dog is only surviving not thriving” comments that are typically posted in response to people using vegetarian formulas.

    I provide the information that I base my conclusions on so that other people can see what those conclusions are based on and judge for themselves.

    I only comment on the brands with which I am familiar.

  • aimee

    The “Hi Taylor…” post was your third link.
    I offered an explanation as to why the food was working for her and thought if I didn’t say I fed that brand someone would “jump” me for not saying so. This is why I used the word “Disclosure”

    When I posted in response to someone asking about vegetarian foods I added that the dogs were thriving because the usual response to people posting about vegetarian diets is along the lines of “your dog is just surviving not thriving” and I was trying to head off that discussion.

    As long as a vegetarian diet is carefully executed dogs can do well on meat free diets.

    I think that no matter what I do or how I say things people will find fault because my ideas are “unpopular”.

    In regards to “tearing down….” I report my findings. It is the company itself that sinks it’s own ship.

    The “fairy dust” comment:
    Digestive enzymes: If you have a dog with EPI they are absolutely lifesaving. There may be an exception, but in general, concentrated products in the form of dehydrated or fresh pancreas are needed to be effective.

    But sprinkling a tiny weeny fraction of an effective dose for an EPI dog onto the food of a dog with a functioning pancreas… I’ve yet to see any data showing any benefit in the dog.

    Probiotics: I see awesome potential here and have used select brands in my own dog. But because many products sold have low numbers of CFU’s and strains of unproven efficacy I see a general recommendation to “add probiotics” as a panacea for any GI problems as falling into the fairy dust category.

    The Gravy train comment: At the end of every review it says “Please know we welcome your comments.”

    I wonder how welcome that poster felt when this is the reception he/she received ( I realize that the OP didn’t make the kindest of remarks either): “You are feeding your poor bully pit some of the most toxic waste filled
    food on the market.

    This food in my opinion is not good,…. it is simply not healthy for any dog at all.

    Does it bother you that your dog is eating toxic chemicals and ground up
    waste off the slaughterhouse floor? Oh and not to mention the chemicals
    used to euthanize cats and dogs that are found in the “meat and bone
    meal” found in this food.

    danger of feeding the low quality junk dog food every day.

    This really isn’t a decent product.

    Gravy Train IS horrible

    Great nutrition? From Gravy Train and Pedigree? You are seriously living in a fantasy world

    If I was that poster I’d feel like I was “jumped” by a hostile mob in a back ally. So I was trying to be welcoming.

    I don’t “believe” so much as make conclusions based on the information I find. Right now I have 6 different company’s product in my home in regards to pet foods. Two products are from the Big 3. The other four are not. Sometimes you only see what you are looking for….

  • Crazy4dogs

    I do agree that this blog is to share experiences, but I honestly don’t think you mean this:
    “But as I said “I don’t really make specific food/brand recommendations to individual posters. I don’t feel it is my place to do so.”

    I think that statement holds true more for the other regular posters, who will offer their opinion on a food but in a more straightforward manner.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I guess we’ll have to disagee once again.

    On the 1st link, I don’t know why discuss sent you to that part of it without your being able to see the additional posts, perhaps I clicked wrong, but the discussion of why Purina passed your standards was due to the comment you made in the prior post.

    This is the post that I was referring to, which was a couple of posts up:

    “Hi Taylor,

    There could be any number of reasons that your dog does well on Pro Plan. It may have to do with the diet’s overall digestibility or the types of and amount of fibers present.

    Disclosure: I feed my dog Pro Plan. I’ve chosen to feed Pro Plan for over 20 years. I don’t use an ingredient list to evaluate food. Besides I’ve found that after objective analysis many of the ingredients vilified by others are not “scary” at all.”

    She had not asked you what to feed or what you fed your dog. That’s where the question of what you use to judge food started.

    On the 2nd link, you did not actually say you used it, but to someone who was looking into feeding his dog a vegetarian diet for his own personal beliefs, not for the dog’s GI issues, you gave resounding praise of your friends’ use of vegetarian/hydrolyzed protein.

    Aimee, I feel the reason we disagree is you tend to tear anything down that is more in the homeopathic genre (from you comments on this group of posts it’s evident you are not a fan). The interesting thing is more and more mainstream vets are suggesting probiotics for stomach upset.
    GO FAIRY DUST!!! :)

    It seems the same for any companies that are trying to provide a more natural food while you seem to give a very big boost to only the Big 3 and RX diets.

    I’m still trying to figure out your reason for thanking someone who posted his like of the food on the Gravy Train review.

    It almost seems that either you really do believe in only the Big 3 or you want to “stir the pot” (another one of your comments in a post to me) to see what arguments you can create.

  • Storm’s Mom

    What IS your intention when you post, particularly re Purina, RC or Hils? In so far as you go in your posts, you probably are being honest, sincere and objective ..however, your posts very often leave MUCH more to be inferred and implied …and to say that that’s not your intention (to lead someone to a particular inference or implication) seems very misleading, to say the least, given what you say and – in particular – where (which page) you say it. For someone as seemingly self-aware as you come across..and as experienced on here as you are.. I cannot imagine that you’re not aware of the intent and the likely perception/reception of every single thing you post. I’m sure I’m not alone on here when I say that I wish you would just be direct about it rather than the sneaky (sorry, just calling it like I see it) way you currently go about your posts on Purina, RC, etc.

  • Storm’s Mom

    “Unsolicited recommendations” don’t have to equate to “what I feed my dogs”.

    In the first example, I (and likely every other reasonable person would) read the entirety as saying you do in fact feed your dogs Purina (which you do do!), because it “passed” your criteria and you said “because I put company ahead of ingredients I’d feed…”. Taken in its entirety, I would read that paragraph to say that you have preferred Purina formulas that you do feed.

    In the 2nd example “All these dogs are doing very well and are thriving!” – this sounds like a ringing endorsement to me! Why would you put that (without any critical analysis even) if you did not want to encourage someone to use the product?!

    You make judgement calls, then back up your judgement calls with “science” …you go to greater lengths than almost anyone on here in that regard.. but you have no intention or expectation that those calls be taken seriously as a recommendation? Seriouisly, aimee?!

  • aimee

    Hmm.. didn’t work for me either I’ll try again

  • Dori

    Aimee, could you please check the link. I keep trying to bring it up and I get error messages. Thanks.

  • Dori

    Known as NSAID-induced enteropathy. There are many articles and studies on the subject.

  • aimee

    It certainly Isn’t my intention to be disingenuous. I try to be honest, sincere and objective in every post I make. I apologize for all my shortcomings.

  • aimee

    I kinda thought the purpose of this blog was to share experiences
    with different foods and companies which is what I have done. But as I
    said “I don’t really make specific food/brand recommendations to
    individual posters. I don’t feel it is my place to do so.”

  • aimee

    You wrote “On all of the links I listed ……………….. you told them what you fed in every post.”

    First link “Purina the company passed my company criteria. Within the company there
    will be some formulations that I prefer over others. Lower cost lines
    will likely source more of the protein from plant base sources over
    animal based. However, because I put company ahead of ingredients I’d
    feed a higher plant based food from a company that “passed” vs a higher
    animal based food from a company that I “failed”.

    No mention of what I feed my dogs.

    2nd link

    “Personally haven’t but one of my friends feeds vegetarian. He uses a
    variety of dry vegetarian diets, primarily Royal Canin and Natural
    Balance, and also adds toppers of eggs and cheese gives peanut butter
    in Kongs.

    I just thought of another person who feed vegetarian.
    After many months of her dog having continual GI problems she took her
    veterinary internist’s advice and put her dog on a hydrolyzed soy diet
    and finally all her dogs problems are resolved. That dog did so well
    that she decided to change her other dog to the vegetarian diet as well.

    All these dogs are doing very well and are thriving!”

    No mention of what I feed my dogs

    Not until the third link do you find a mention of what I feed my dog.

    So when you wrote “I could be wrong,” I’d agree with you.

  • aimee

    Hi Shawna,

    Yup NSAIDS can cause small bowel damage, mix them and they can lead to a perforated intestine.

    Red ( undigested) blood doesn’t have to be large bowel it can be small if intestinal motility is increased. But yes it usually means there is large bowel component to the diarrhea.

    Here is another chart on small bowel vs large bowel

    For Jack when he flares he has does a lot of straining to produce a small amount of soft stool with variable amounts of mucus and occasionally blood with about 10 movements/day.

    If the stool is hitting vertical surfaces I’m envisioning something watery and of significant volume which are not the hallmarks of a pure large bowel problem.

  • Crazy4dogs

    As I side note and edit to my first reply, you stated:

    I have shared information I know about these companies and if asked tell posters what I feed or why I choose the products I have or how i evaluate foods but to the best of knowledge I haven’t ever said “I think you should feed X” or “I recommend x” or “I suggest you use x”

    On all of the links I listed not one of the posters, with the exception of the Royal Canin poster who asked which formula you fed after you said you fed it, was directly posting to you OR asking you what you fed and yet you told them what you fed in every post. The only exception was Purina Dog Chow as a valid choice link. In that one you said “I myself would choose Dog Chow over many foods with a higher star rating or a “better” ingredient line up.”

    I could be wrong, but that looks like unsolicited recommendations to me.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi Aimee,

    While they may not be explicit “feed your dog this”, they are certainly implications, although in many, you state specifically that you are feeding these foods. Often you either preface or conclude your dislike or like of a particular food with your “scientific” evidence. There are many more, like the recent discussion you and I had regarding RX Weight Loss Diets, but I did not include that link. I can, if you’d like. Here are some of the links:

    Why Purina passes your feeding criteria:

    Feeding Vegetarian/hydrolyzed protein:

    Purina Pro Plan:

    Purina Dog Chow as a valid choice for food:

    Pro Plan is your “go to food”:

    Royal Canin recommendation:

    Why you don’t like Grandma Lucy’s and a list of what you feed your dogs(can we guess the brands?) :)

  • Storm’s Mom

    I see that as purely semantics, aimee. You recommend implicitly, not necessarily explicitly, more often than not, and frankly I find that more disingenuous than less.

  • Shawna

    I didn’t realize NSAIDs caused small bowel issues?

    11 hours ago I wrote in a comment to you
    “When Gizmo has an episode come on it is blood stained, extremely urgent
    (she rarely makes it outside) and very forceful (vertical surfaces need
    to be cleaned – like cabinet doors).”

    That is what I mean by severe and explosive. The blood is red which as your links noted is definitely large bowel. Your comment about small bowel was 13 hours ago so made before I replied with the above, but the above statement explains the situation well.

  • Shawna

    I’ve had close to, if not over, 40 dogs through my home and every single one of them was given a rotational diet without issue unless there was a specific ingredient causing a problem. That’s tiny puppies to seniors, healthy to puppy mill retired breeders and so on. Not only did they rotate but all but two of them ate kibble, canned and raw (which definitely has some macronutrient variation).

    The two exceptions were given no kibble for most of their time with me (Gus was with me for just over a year). He would barf up kibble in my house. Interestingly, after being adopted, by my neighbors, he was able to be put back on kibble in their quiet, retired, one dog household. He loved puppies though so I would bring new puppies over to visit him. We had to coordinate the visits around his meals so he didn’t get excited and barf up his meal.

  • aimee

    If I have done this often then it should be very simple for you to post the links to the posts that state ” I recommend you feed X”

    I have shared information I know about these companies and if asked tell posters what I feed or why I choose the products I have or how i evaluate foods but to the best of knowledge I haven’t ever said “I think you should feed X” or “I recommend x” or “I suggest you use x”

    I have recommended concepts such as feeding trials or HPP or companies that have a veterinary nutritionist but I don’t see that as saying I recommend you feed your dog brand X”

  • aimee

    The reason I said I associate “SEVERE and explosive” with small bowel is because those words evoked a picture in my mind of a large volume of material deposited. Maybe that isn’t what you meant. Large volumes of material passed is more of a small bowel component. Of course a dog can have both/mixed.

    From WSU College of Vet Med “Small
    intestinal diseases result in a larger amount of stool passed with a mild
    increase in frequency; about 3 to 5 bowel movements per day. The pet doesn’t
    strain or have difficulty passing stool……. Excess gas production is sometimes
    seen and you may hear the rumbling of gas in the belly. If there is blood in
    the stool it is digested and black in color

    Disease of the large intestine including the colon and rectum cause the
    pet to pass small amounts of loose stool very often, usually more than 5
    times daily. The pet strains to pass stool. If there is blood in the stool,
    it is red in color. The stool may be slimy with mucus.”

    Here is another description”Urgency may be present in acute small bowel disorders
    or in those associated with cramping. Generally, rapid evacuation of a
    large volume of watery diarrhea ensues (as opposed to large bowel problems
    in which only a small volume is passed)”

    The fourth slide from this site

    differentiates the two in table form.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Aimee, I have to disagree with your post. You do, in fact, often recommend Purina and all of the Big 3 RX diets as well as Vegan/Vegetarian and hydrolyzed protein diets. Those are the ONLY ones I’ve actually seen you recommend.

  • Shawna

    You can take offense to Storm’s remark or not but I think she’s absolutely right. A dog should be able to eat a very wide variety of foods without GI consequences. Doesn’t mean it is anything the pet parent is doing as it could be a situation that arose prior to acquiring the pet, as in your case, and maintenance is now the best we can offer. Or an illness or weakness may have happened before birth, as in my Audrey’s case or while at the breeders, or some vets feel after vaccination etc. There are many instances that could occur that doesn’t put us as the owner at fault but it still does mean that the dog is not as healthy as could, or maybe it is “should”, be.

  • Shawna

    Hi el doctor,
    Sure, the remedy chosen by my vet for Gizmo’s SPECIFIC symptoms was homeopathic phosphorus. I purchased it from the health food store (back then) for $6.00 a bottle and a bottle lasted me about a month if memory serves. Now they sell for $7.00 a bottle.

    If your pups symptoms are quite similar to Gizmo’s then phosphorus should work however my vet specifically stated that there are four homeopathics used to treat colitis/diarrhea based on the urgency, frequency and dynamics of the symptoms. If you use the wrong one for the symptoms your dog has there will be absolutely no benefit.
    PS — I used homeopathic arnica two years back when I broke a bone in the bottom of my foot. I used it as soon as I felt the snap but I didn’t realize at that point that it was broken. There was no swelling, no bruising and the pain was mild but after an eight hour work day I was still not able to put weight on the foot without increasing the pain so went to the emergency clinic.

    If you really want to give homepathics a fair and valid shot you have to work with someone well trained in homeopathics. We just had a discussion on a Facebook group I and a few friends started, Dr. Richard Pitcairn and Dr. Patricia Jordan discussed with us how homeopathics are being misused by some vets. Very enlightening conversation. The following day Dr. Dym mentioned it as an annoyance on his personal facebook page.

  • aimee

    Hi Storms Mom,

    I saw your comment to me ” The difference is in how the challenges are handled.” as a judgement that people like myself who choose not to rotate are “cowering/catering to fear” and negligent in their pet’s care as they are “not actually fixing the underlying problem (an unhealthy gut).”

    Just because I can abruptly change Brooke’s diet willy nilly without GI consequences doesn’t to me mean she is healthier than Jack . Nor do I feel that I don’t keep Jacks “long term best interests” in mind. When I stray too much or for too long from Jack’s base diet he tends to flare. I did once “cold turkey” switch to a never before eaten wet commercial diet for several meals when he went off food for 3+ days. He ate it well and and had no vomiting and stool was normal. Do you see that as evidence that he has a healthy gut despite me not rotating diets wit him?

    While the OP’s customer’s dogs may not have had as severe of problems as mine or others I posted about it, really is about what that person’s perception is and I feel that should be respected.

    I think if you read back through my posts you’ll see that while I often link to information for people or comment on concepts I don’t really make specific food/brand recommendations to individual posters. I don’t feel it is my place to do so.

  • Shawna

    The diagnosis was made by a vet however doesn’t mean she was correct.

    That said, Dr. Google seems to disagree with you on this topic. LOTS of Google sites. Here’s just one:
    Southern Cross Healthcare Group
    “Signs and symptoms

    The most common symptoms of ulcerative colitis are episodes of bloody diarrhoea and pain in the lower abdomen. There may also be a sensation of urgent need to pass a bowel motion. The bowel motions may be explosive and may contain mucous or pus.”

  • Shawna

    Supplemental probiotics was lacking in evidence at one point too.

    You obviously know how difficult it would be to perform a trial on homeopathics as there are so many variables. My vet said there is four different remedies just for colitis alone — based on urgency, forcefulness etc.

    When Gizmo has an episode come on it is blood stained, extremely urgent (she rarely makes it outside) and very forceful (vertical surfaces need to be cleaned – like cabinet doors). In the beginning, when her immune system was ramped up, turkey set her off too. NSAIDs are the one other thing I’ve found that cause the ulcerative colitis.
    There has been two times over the last nine years where she was hurting enough that I thought an NSAID was appropriate. After three days on the NSAID the homeopathic is absolutely needed. After my vet recommended the homeopathic (which is phosphorus) I had bottles of the stuff EVERYWHERE. If I heard her tummy grumble I made a mad dash for the first one, crushed it with a mortar and pestle and down the hatch as quickly as I could. Has NEVER once failed me. If you experienced homeopathics in action like that you would never again doubt their reliability. What IS problematic is that the proper remedy is not always easily known and you may have to try several before finding the right one even WITH the help of a vet or homeopath. Luckily that was not the case with Gizmo.

  • Cathy Thompson

    I have had MANY breeds of dogs but for this purpose I will tell you about my dog, Tyler. Tyler was a Westie and unbeknownst to me Westies are known to have terrible skin allergies. At about the age of 1 1/2 he started licking his paws almost raw and his coat looked terrible. I took him to no fewer than 6 vets (including specialists). The dermatologist put him on the plan where you take him off everything and then introduce him to adding things back into the diet one at a time in order to try and find the problem. Well, we found nothing to make him any better. So I had to resort to having my vet give him cortisone injections to stop the itching etc. He did, however, tell me we had 2 choices 1. To let him have an uncomfortable life and not give him the shots or 2. Give him the shots as needed and it may cut 1-2 years off his life (because most dogs contract Cushings Disease from having too much cortisone) but the quality of his life would be much better. Well, we couldn’t stand to see him lick his paws to the point of bleeding so we opted for the shots. At the time we were feeding him Nutrish. One day while I was in a pet store I saw Royal Canin dry food with a picture of a Westie on it and it said it was for skin and coat problems. By this time Tyler was 8 years old so I decided to try it. After eating the Royal Canin for 1 month he completely stopped licking his paws, and his coat was BEAUTIFUL! It was healthy looking and shining. Any fur he had lost due to the licking came back and he felt FANTASTIC! I am posting this only because I have since seen MANY Westies with his same condition and have recommended the Royal Canin to others with the same outcome. Tyler lived to be 12 but he did get Cushings and died from pancreatic problems due to the Cushings. I had to post this because if you have a Westie with this kind of problem you may want to try it.

  • Crazy4cats

    While I am always hoping for a “magical” remedy to help with my dogs’ digestive issues, I’m so grateful to have several points of view represented on this site.

  • aimee

    I also don’t find much basis in homeopathy. The field is lacking in the type of evidence I want to see.

  • aimee

    I associate this “SEVERE and explosive diarrhea” with a small bowel issue. With colitis you see small amounts often, straining, and often mucous and blood.

    Jack has never had what I’d call explosive diarrhea. When he flares I see multiple deposits which vary in size from about a tsp – a few tbls with mucous and sometimes blood.

  • aimee

    I wonder how many people who don’t rotate and switch do not have a problem. I do think some dogs are more flexible than others. There are so many variables between foods: fiber levels and types, digestibility, macronutrient profiles

  • aimee


    A thousand likes for this!! “You have to try to be curtious and fair to each person that comes in with a different mindset than your own.”

  • Crazy4dogs

    It’s the ones that are the most work/effort/issues that teach us the most! I’ve had several of those dogs and they have taught me a ton!

  • aimee

    I’m the lucky one! I’ve learned so much from him.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi aimee,
    Well Jack is very lucky that you did take him and help him out! :)

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi el doctor! I’m not a staright homeopath and I due believe that some items claim to cure too many things, but I’ve used some of the “fairy dust” and have had incredibly good luck with my own and foster dogs. Some of the other “fairy dust” I’ve used includes Neem Oil, DE, Slippery Elm, Turmeric, Milk Thistle and have had incredibly amazing results! :)

  • Crazy4dogs

    I find the big problem is when you keep your dog on the same diet for his entire life the dog has difficulty when the formula is changed, recalled or no longer available. People are then left with a dog with GI upset and scrambling to find a new food. You see that all the time on DFA posts.
    Since I rotate and use specific proteins as opposed to a blend of proteins, I easily figured out what was causing the issues in my dogs, if any, and that dog no longer gets that formula or protein source. I can also feed most any food, kibble, canned, cooked or raw and haven’t had any issues. Normal stools are the norm around here. :)

  • Crazy4dogs

    And you’re paying between $16 and $18 for 2.5 pounds! That must be some very special corn! :(

  • el doctor

    Hi Shawna,

    That homeopathic sure sounds like it might be fairy dust (I’m just kidding around aimee) but would you mind telling me the name so I can give it a try if need be.

    BTW I’m not a big believer in homeopathic remedies because it goes so much against my western world view.

    But I do realize that there are things I don’t understand, so I am open to trying new things if it could help the pups!!!

  • Shawna

    I rotated before I connected the colitis to an offending food. Because of the rotation she would improve but because I would rotate chicken back in the diet she got worse. Because of her little size, chicken necks and wings were a common raw meaty bone option. However it was always many days after starting the chicken that the symptoms started so it took some time to figure it out. I don’t feed her chicken now that I know she reacts to chicken. (Not being able to feed raw meaty bones was one of the reasons I moved to commercial raw)
    Gizmo may have had small intestine issues as well but the SEVERE and explosive diarrhea was always preceded by a rumbling tummy. Once I heard the tummy noise (from memory) I had about 15 to 30 minutes to get the homeopathic dosed.

    Yes, I did remember Jack was getting toppers.

    My point is that if those owners would have had adequate food related guidance at the beginning of their search they may not have had to settle for a highly processed food that’s first ingredient is rice.

  • aimee

    I ‘m missing something. If it was an offending food and you rotated so she would be off it for periods of time why even put her on the offending food?

    “she was always off the offending food for periods of time.”

    Honestly I don’t think Jack’s problem has to do with a particular food item so much as the fiber types and levels in the diet???. He gets a variety of toppers without any problems.

    I always associated rumbling gut with small intestine not large.

    Could the dogs have done just as well with homecooked? Possibly but I don’t see what that has to do with an owners unwillingness to change a dog’s diet after finding one that worked for that pet.

  • Shawna

    My Pom had pretty severe ulcerative colitis as well. Luckily I DID feed a rotational diet so she was always off the offending food for periods of time. Also, luckily, I sought out the help of a holistic vet who recommended a $6.00 homeopathic that IMMEDIATELY stopped all symptoms before the diarrhea even began. As soon as I heard the rumbling gut I’d give her the homeopathic and it would be over.

    Had I fed her chicken for every meal and treated her with allopathic medicine, yeah things could have gone very differently.

    “Fairy dust”, really aimee?

  • Shawna

    Up until January of this year I had eight dogs. Cleo can’t have goat, Mimi can’t have lamb, Gizmo can’t have fowl (any fowl including ostrich, pheasant and quail) and Audrey couldn’t have beef tripe and beef bone. I get that things can be difficult.

    I’m curious why you feel switching brands wouldn’t be beneficial?

  • aimee

    Hi Crazy4dogs,

    I don’t know what he was being fed as I didn’t own him at the time. When I acquired him his rectum was prolapsed and had been for 3 days. I don’t even know the full story behind him. The people who had him had only gotten him a day or so prior and thought they could raise the money for his surgery but when they couldn’t were going to euthanize him. I offered to take him and he was given to me.

  • Pitlove

    Very nice catch Bruce. Thanks for the update.

  • Pitlove

    Hi Missbeanz- I work in the pet food retail industry as well. I have worked at Petco and now at a small pet boutique that carrys mainly natural foods, raw and dehyrated raw. We have 1 shelf of Purina ProPlan and 1 of Science Diet for a few customers who still request them.
    I agree that probiotics don’t fix everything, but I do feel (as I have had experience with it) that a healthy dog with no known health issues can beneifit greatly from pre/probiotics and digestive supplements.
    I do absolutely agree however, with your approach to pet food sales. I have helped countless people to the isle with Beneful for example and I can’t say a word unless they prompt me. There are people who do not believe that there is any beneifit to natural foods or raw and there are some that are happy with the results of Beneful and Ol’Roy etc and others who want to look for something different. You have to try to be curtious and fair to each person that comes in with a different mindset than your own.
    That being said, I greatly enjoy the customer base at my new job as most are already feeding quality foods or are looking to do so and wanting information on it.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Aimee, sorry that your boy had that issue. I’m curious. What were you feeding him when he had the problem?

  • Storm’s Mom

    aimee, no I wasn’t aware of Jack’s situation..poor guy!

    The original poster indicated that she worked at a pet store, though, and thus my guess is/was that people coming in to her store were not dealing with dogs with cases such as you mentioned. There was no mention of vet recommendations, life threatening conditions, etc etc factoring in to those people’s purchasing decisions. Given that, I feel comfortable saying what I said.

    I’ve never advocated for ignoring a vet’s advice and I’m not among the category of those who feed “home cooked, raw, limited ingredient enzymes probiotics etc etc etc”. I also never would suggest you should risk Jack’s life.. seriously, aimee?!

    I also can’t help but notice, though, that YOU are also on the internet hoping that someone “listened to
    advice found on line from well meaning individuals as yourself”. In your case you’re obviously trying to sway people toward vet diets, among other things… what gives you the right to do it but not others who advocate something different?

    I also have a dog who spent 2 days in an emergency vet hospital with an IV in him because of a GI issue. It was that episode that convinced me that I had to do whatever I could to sort his GI issues out, and that has included feeding a rotation diet.

  • aimee

    Storms Mom,
    Perhaps you didn’t know, but Jack has already had one surgery to replace his rectum which prolapsed from straining. I consider him always at risk of recurrence.

    Thousands of dollars, many days spent in the hospital, numerous blood tests, ultrasounds, surgery, and specialists later he is doing well.

    A friend’s dog, a shepherd, had such severe colitis that he had three blood transfusions over 2 days to save him. His condition was eventually controlled by both drugs and diet. Through diet trials they found a diet which allowed him to be weaned of the major drugs. He remained on that vet diet, until he passed from other causes

    Another person I know through training class had her dog in and out of the hospital needing IV’s and support to get him through each crisis. His owner refused to take the vet’s recommendation regarding food and instead listened to advice found on line from well meaning individuals as yourself: home cooked, raw, limited ingredient enzymes probiotics etc etc etc she did it all. She was at one point considering euthanasia as she couldn’t stand to see him continually suffer. But at the end of her rope she decided to trial the “crappy vet diet” that she knew from all her on line research was “junk” All the symptoms resolved. He was finally eating well and normal weighted and without GI signs. Her vet said she can now to do dietary challenges. She said “no way”!

    To what end should people whose dog’s have had such significant GI challenges risk a relapse and perhaps their dog’s life?

    Why should I risk Jack’s life? If he prolapsed again I was told he may need to have his colon tacked to his body wall or have it removed. Why would you even suggest I risk such a thing?

    A little fairy dust sprinkled on food in the way of dietary enzymes and probiotics does not solve everything.

    Please have some empathy for individuals like myself whose dogs have gone through life threatening conditions and don’t want to risk their dog’s life by rotating diets.

  • Storm’s Mom

    I think it’s fair to say that a good number of people (particularly on here) who now feed a rotation/variety of foods have had dogs that faced “significant GI challenges”, so there’s no lack of understanding of where those individuals are coming from. The difference is in how that challenge is handled.

  • aimee

    Hi Missbeanz,
    Speaking as one whose dog has had significant GI challenges I understand completely where those individuals are coming from!

  • Storm’s Mom

    Personally, I would recommend putting a dog with “dietary issues” on probiotics and digestive enzymes before I would ever recommend/encourage sticking with the same food because it “works”. That’s particularly true if someone is feeding an average or below average food and they try something “better”.. that’s a recipe for disaster in a lot of cases (causes those “dietary issues” – and, yes, I’m using the quotes intentionally) unless you add probiotics and digestive enzymes before, during and after a food change. Allergies/intolerances are a whole other ballgame, of course, however, if it’s a poultry allergy (chicken, duck, etc) like mine has it’s almost a necessity to feed different brands because most have only 1 or 2 chicken-free formulas.

    Allergies/intolerances can pop up with any ingredient, not just proteins, though, so changing brands is almost as important as changing proteins. Otherwise, in most cases, you’re essentially feeding the same food day in and day out, except for a protein or two. Plus, by feeding different brands, you’re not beholden to any one company, and if that company has a recall, etc you can easily switch to another one without a second thought.

  • Missbeanz

    That may be most people on dog food advisor, but not most of my customers. I try to recommend switching proteins regularly (I’m not too sold on the idea that you need to switch brands regularly but I do believe in mixing up proteins, toppers and treats) but lots of people have been through so many allergy and dietary issues with their dogs that they are very adamant about not changing their food once they’ve found something that works. I was pretty much saying that although this food has a lower rating, if it works for your dog for your dog’s particular set of issues then go for it.

  • Shawna

    Most of the regulars on Dog Food Advisor don’t think feeding any one specific food, or even brand, is healthiest for a dog. Dogs need the same amount of variety as every other living animal. Of course there are certain ingredients that are problematic for specific dogs and those ingredients should be avoided. My Pom can’t have chicken (or any poultry actually) but does well on venison, beef, pork, lamb, bison etc.

  • Missbeanz

    Although I personally think RC is kinda crap, as a pet retail employee I always assure people if something is working great for their dog stick with it. Every pooch is different.

  • Bruce

    Needs updating. Chihuahua food now has corn as first ingredient.

  • Kaibelf

    Perhaps that clerk should think about how she speaks to customers and understand that’s they sell poop bags as a profession.

  • sharron

    want to let you know that we are back to normal – lexee is back to drinking water from her bowl on a regular basis – she started last night so all is good again

  • Shawna

    LOL!! Thanks C4d!

  • Dori


  • Crazy4dogs

    I got it Shawna. And, anyway, we luv ya for your knowledge, not your comedic abilities! :)

  • Shawna

    Attempted explanation – apparently another fail.. UHG :)

    In my first post I stated I was telling her not to worry about other peoples opinion and said “In my opinion, not that you asked…” I thought I was being clever but resulted in first fail… :)

  • Dori

    I’m very happy to hear that Sharron. Keep adding the water to her food.

  • Dori


  • Crazy4dogs

    Glad to hear that! :)
    I’d probably keep adding a bit of water to her food so you know she’s getting enough.

  • sharron

    no need to apologize – i didn’t realize that you were joking – i should apologize

  • sharron

    just want to say that i took lexee to the vet this afternoon and she is fine – NOT
    dehydrated – the amount of water i’m mixing with the wet food for the day is the right amount that she should take in

  • Shawna

    The opinion comment was a failed attempt at a joke – sorry.

  • Crazy4dogs

    100% AGREE!!!

  • Crazy4dogs

    Oh I realize what I had to learn was much more involved, but if she’s having that much trouble, if it was me, I would contact the vet’s office and ask for hands on instruction. My vets are always more than willing to help with things like that.

  • Dori

    C4D, what we suggested about the syringe was for her to get some fluids into Lexee’s mouth, down her throat. She’s not doing subq or giving injections. I wouldn’t think she’d need to be taught that process. Thought you might think she was attempting subq treatments or anything like that. Lexie’s not drinking enough fluids and I and others suggested that she get some fluids by syringe into her mouth.

  • Dori

    sharron, more important than her eating is her not drinking. You have got to get fluids into Lexee or take her to the vet for intravenous i.v. fluids. Dogs dehydrate very quickly especially dogs of the size that you and I have. Lack of fluids is not something you can take your time with or contemplate the best way to do it. Have you tried the pedialyte? Will she lick a little honey off your finger? Very important. I can’t stress this point enough as Storm’s Mom has already said.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Trying to hold down an 80 lb dog that’s fear aggressive of the needle when you’re trying to give sub-q fluids, now that’s tough! :/

  • Dori

    I hate to keep repeating my mantra to one and all that post about how they are continually looking for a food for their dogs because their dog doesn’t like the food people have picked out for them. But forgive me I will say it again. DOGS ARE NOT BORN PICKY EATERS. NOPE! They are made that way by their guardians.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Sharron hasn’t your vet or a vet tech shown you how to use the syringe properly?
    My vet taught us how to give injections and subcutaneous fluids.

  • Storm’s Mom

    You keep saying that “Lexee doesn’t like” and “it’s a struggle”, etc etc etc ..what exactly are you afraid of with/about her?!?! Like, I’m sorry, but she’s a tiny Chihuahua Yorkie, what is the worst that can happen if you try to feed her water in a syringe TO SAVE HER LIFE?!?! She can’t go on for all that long with the only moisture in her diet being from the canned food and the small amount of water you put on it/kibble before dehydration and kidney issues do some serious damage. You just seem so…tentative… when dealing with her, and I don’t get why.

  • sharron

    your opinion does matter to me – i have tried your suggestions and everyone else’s on this site and unfortunately lexee didn’t like the suggestions – i tried raw again this past weekend and she wouldn’t touch it – so i guess i have to go along with want she likes and will eat which is royal canin – i’ve been going through this for 5 yrs, it has to end at some point – i have mentioned the water issue to the vet, this is a new thing for her, she said to add water to wet food, it just makes it really sloppy and lexee won’t eat it or use the syringe

  • DogFoodie

    I think it was probably more like two years ago, Shawna.

  • Shawna

    Yeah freeze dried foods do tend to be pretty high in fat, you are not wrong.

    Seems odd that she is fine with eating after the surgery but not with drinking water? Is it possible that the water is too cold and maybe making her teeth hurt? Have you mentioned this new problem to the vet?

    If you talk with different groups, you are going to get differing opinions for sure. In my opinion, not that you asked… :) In my opinion, raw is always best but I’m not feeding Lexee so in the end my opinion doesn’t really matter for Lexee. Don’t let people bully you or make you feel bad about what you are doing especially when you know you have tried so many foods and had issues along the way.

  • Storm’s Mom

    Well, my suggestion is that you figure out something to get fluids into her ASAP otherwise she’s going to end up in emerg pretty darn quickly with an IV in her, at the very least. A “struggle” with a syringe is far preferable in this situation to the alternative. (and I honestly can’t believe that I even have to point that out to you)

  • sharron

    sorry forgot to answer this part – i did do the syringe that turned out to be a struggle, i got more on her face then in her mouth, also the last time i gave her broth she ended up at the vet with an allergic reaction to something in it – the broth was the only thing different, same dry food mixed with the broth – that was quite a few months ago

  • sharron

    i shouldn’t have generalized and said that all grain free foods make her gain weight – i think the freeze dried is too high in fat – i could be wrong – i don’t know – everything was going well until the surgery and the water problem – food isn’t an issue, hasn’t been for awhile – i do get confused – because i get so many opinions about what i should be feeding her – so i’m sticking with what works for her

  • Shawna

    I understand her weight is fine now. I am simply stating that Lexee lost weight on “grain free” Orijen kibble so when you say above that “grain free” caused her to gain weight, I have to disagree. A specific brand of grain free may have caused an issue but “grain free” was not the problem.

    You seem to constantly and continuously have issue with Miss Lexee. I feel bad for both of you.

    Do you think she would allow you to syringe feed her water or low sodium chicken broth?

  • sharron

    her weight is fine – and right now it’s the least of my problems – since her dental surgery last week she won’t drink water – she hasn’t had any except for what i mix with the can food

  • Shawna

    I think one time we talked about the difference between weight as a number on the scale and body condition. Do you remember that? Body condition is FAR more important than what the scales say.

  • Shawna

    I spoke with Sharron over a year ago and I know many others have spoken with her between than and now and before me.

  • sharron

    the whole weight issue wasn’t something that i came up with – i was told by a nutritionist at the vet clinic that she was 2 lbs overweight – that was like 4 yrs ago – she did gain a lb when i fed her the orijen freeze dried about 2 months ago – she is now back to her normal weight – i don’t believe now that she has been overweight except for that lb that she gained a couple of months ago – i honestly think that the nutritionist is wrong – she has always stayed the same weight

  • Crazy4dogs

    I was discussing foods with sharron just a couple of days ago and I know Dori has been helping her. I’m not sure I’m understanding what her needs are. She said the orijen freeze dried was making her dog too fat. I think maybe she just wants justification for feeding RC?

  • Shawna

    I don’t think you can state that she gained weight on grain free per se –You said this about Orijen a year ago

    “i think she has reached the weight loss goal- she’s going to be too skinny if she loses any more – you can feel her ribs and just about everything else – and now she’s starting to get hungry again like she
    did when she was on the royal canin, and the other foods that contained a lot of carbs”

    I know you’ve fed everything from Oijen to Cesar’s to RC and raw. If RC is what you want to feed her then do it. If people don’t like it then don’t give them the opportunity to give their opinion.

  • Adam

    Would just like to tell my pup Hana story. Hana is a 3 yr old golden doodle. We adopted from a bad situation and she was underweight. After trying most of the big brand dog foods and special organic blends, she still had not put on weight. In visiting my parents boxer who eats RC, Hana ate the boxers food without hesitation. So we switched her to RC. Now RC does not make a golden doodle breed specific food so we have option to mix and match (her formula is equal parts of poodle formula, boxer formula and lab formula). Since the switch to RC Hana has gained and maintained a healthy weight. Her skin and coat has never looked better and she has healthy daily bowl movements. Best part is that she enjoys the food! Our vet has seen this improvement and encourages us to continue on this regimen. So regardless of these test results we will continue to do what we have found works best for Hana and her health!

  • Lotzahenz

    ahh, true, maybe there is just one really heavy one, even better, easier to clean up.

  • Lotzahenz

    My dog has gone from 3 stools in the morning, and 2 in the evening, to 1 in the morning and one in the evening, seems about right to me too. I like that, less clean up.

  • Lotzahenz

    can you give me an idea why my dog LOVES it, over the other supposedly better foods? That is my question. I think we think that dogs just eat MEAT, but that is not at all true in the wild, wolves have a hiearchy in feeding, and they eat the whole animal. The choices parts go to the alpha, the pups get the left overs and all eat bones. Pups are nursing, so eating is training, but the bone building calcium found in bones in vital. My finicky pup will beg for the kibble, but I sat out 6 bowls of other expensive choices (skipped cheap ones) and she turned up her nose at all of them and even picked out the RC in the other choices, when I tried to hide it later to get her to eat it. And, with that said, my cat came and did the same thing, eats the RC like it is candy.

  • Lotzahenz

    but my dogs all love feathers! says the lady who loves feathers on the live bird to stay there, they are a source of protein and calcium found in nature? Like egg shells are super nutritious, the contents of a gut are super nutritious to dogs, as the leader of the pack gets them. I have begun to rethink feather meal and such, it sounds bad but it is simply natural. Corn? Hum, was told not to fee corn to anything, especially my human children, but we LOVE corn too. sigh. Corn is for cows was our motto, makes fat cows.

  • Lotzahenz

    RC was the brand of choice in Europe when we lived there, it was just not affordable at all, cheaper to feed pure beef steak, 10x cheaper to feed chicken for humans.

  • Lotzahenz

    fellow human nurse here too, I say what makes the patient happy, like pizza on a sick stomach, makes the patient well most of the time. I have seen it over and over. I also question why the really expensive stuff, the on the vets wall at $100 a bag is RC? They surely have reasons of scientific nature? If my dog won’t eat the other stuff, then she does anything she can to get to the human food, the cats box, the trash etc and then she is sick for a few days when that happens.

  • Lotzahenz

    I am this person. I have bought over 10 different high quality dog foods (kibble) and my dog has an extremely sensitive digestive system, and the ONLY food she will eat is RC mini ‘special’. She loves it, and will only eat the other choices at the end of the day when she is super hungry. I was here researching “WHY” this is, read the review and am tired of spending money on dog food she just will not eat. I keep considering just buying the cheap stuff, but have not given up yet. WeimyLife, what do you suggest, stick with the overpriced RC?

  • sharron

    since i will be feeding lexee straight can food, what should i look for as far nutrients – right now i have on royal canin low fat canned which ishe really really likes, it’s her favourite – i noticed on the DFA suggested weight loss food list that merrick seems to be a good one – she doesn’t need to lose weight, if she does only 1/2 lb – have tried weruva, she didn’t care for that, i think because it has shredded things in it – she doesn’t like anything shredded – she really prefers a pate

  • Crazy4dogs

    LOL! Mine will eat the flavored ones loaded in sugar! :)

  • Crazy4cats

    lol :)

  • sharron

    thanks – trying to feed lexee dry is like trying to get my husband to eat yogurt
    just doesn’t work

  • Crazy4dogs

    Storm’s mom is right. If cost isn’t a factor, raw or canned is a healthier option anyway. I use kibble mixed with canned in the morning to keep down the cost because I have up to 200+ lbs of dogs here, depending on the fosters I have.

  • sharron

    i really should just do straight can instead of forcing her to eat dry which she has never really cared for, no matter what brand it is, or whether it’s grain free or not – i usually have to soften up the kibble anyway when i feed it to her – that’s what i’m going to do – just canned – thanks!!!!!!!

  • Storm’s Mom

    Why not just keep her on canned and/or raw?

  • Storm’s Mom

    sharron’s in Canada, Victor’s not available here. I wish it were. Good call on the Earthborn, I keep forgetting about them! (probably in part because the closest place that sells Earthborn is 90mins away)

  • sharron

    oh no she’s not ready yet to eat anything hard – won;t be for another week – still on wet food – i;m just looking into other foods for down the road

  • LabsRawesome

    Victor is my favorite kibble, my dogs do really well on it. Merrick, Earthborn. Check out the 4 and 5 star best foods on this site. Best 4 star foods

  • aquariangt

    Fromm Gold is grain inclusive and fairly easily tolerated to start moving towards higher quality foods. If that’s too much of a jump, try Precise Foundations or Nutrisource

  • Storm’s Mom

    Nature’s Logic and Merrick’s grain-inclusive formulas are the ones that come immediately to mind.

    Did the vet indicate it’s alright to feed her kibble again? I’m thinking you’d want to be sticking with canned and/or raw still??

  • sharron

    ok thanks a lot – i don’t think she does really well on grain free – what are some decent dry foods that include grains – do you know or can you point me in the right direction

  • LabsRawesome

    I would keep trying higher quality foods. Some stores have free samples, and if you contact manufactures they can send samples to you too.

  • sharron

    thanks – i know there are better foods, my problem is getting her to eat them – she likes RC she eats it more readily than others i have tried

  • aimee

    It is an interesting product and i know someone who used it and thought it effective.

    I’m thinking I did read some research on it and measured cortisol levels did not elevate as much when put in a stressful situation vs control diet. So there is some “hard” data in addition to observation.

    That said I remain a but “on the fence” regarding effectiveness and think it would only help in milder cases.

    The milk protein incorporated in the diet is I believe the same as what is in the supplement Zyklene

  • LabsRawesome

    Hi sharron, You’re definitely not abusing her. But, Royal Canin is only a 2 and a half star food. It does not have high quality ingredients. For the money that you are paying you can get a much higher quality food. Have you read Dr. Mike’s review for RC? It has a lot of red flagged ingredients, and is low in meat protein. The funny thing about RC’s “breed specific” diets, if you look at the ingredients lists they are all very similiar, each different food uses the same ingredients, just in different order.

  • sharron

    the other day i was told by a pet store employee that i am abusing my dog by feeding her royal canin and if i won’t feed her a superior grain free food i shouldn’t own a dog – she does fine on RC – her poops on good, better than they were when i fed her grain free, and she has lost the weight that she gained when she was on grain free, she had gained even with cutting back on the amount served and she still got 3-4 walks a day

  • Pitlove

    Royal Canin; the masters of marketing dog food to uneduated people. This one is my favorite:

    edit: i really hope my sarcasm was noted.

  • pitlove

    Its funny how the breed specific formulas for other contries have different ingredients. you would think if it was specific to one breed they would contain the same ingredients. lol

  • pitlove

    The reason why most people who are in the vet field believe that RC, Science Diet and Purina are quality, nutrious and wholesome foods is because representitives from those companies are the people who are hired to teach nutrition classes at vet school. The students walk out believeing that dogs are omnivores and that they need “wholesome grains” (as beneful puts it) in their diet. They also come out believeing that dogs do not need a raw diet because they are domistic animals and not wolves. It is a brilliant way for these companies to market their food. It is sad but most vet’s have little to no actual nutrition knowledge about dogs dietary needs at all. Dr. Karen Becker is actually trying to raise money to be able to have holistic nutritional classes taught in vet schools as elective classes for students who want unbias information on dog nutrition. It’s really great what she is trying to do

  • mjfromga

    I think I saw a doggy Bistro in France or something serving their “doggy diners” Royal Canin. Thing is, despite this being so expensive, there’s no way I’d let my Nigredo eat any of this. He’s allergy prone and all that corn etc. is probably bad for him. Irrelevant to this article, my uncle was feeding his dogs Twin Pet dry food. Literally that stuff smells like cardboard.

  • peggy

    I agree! I have chihuahuas and they are hard to please. I feed the Royal Canine Chihuahua and they love it. Never had a problem health wise. To even things out I make all their treats and jerky!

  • Bobby dog

    Yes, some dogs take weeks or maybe months initially for transitions to new foods. Some may never transition well. Finding several foods your dog does well on is something to consider because recipes never remain the same or are discontinued.
    Also keep in mind a food may be marketed as “hypoallergenic,” however that term is misleading. It is only hypoallergenic to a dog if it does not contain a protein the dog is sensitive to; that is individual to each dog. A dog may be sensitive to any protein, fish, potato, peas the list could be simple or it could be endless.
    That’s good you are looking into possible environmental issues; sometimes that’s overlooked. Finding a food with a single protein might be a good place to start. Good luck!

  • Brandy

    Thank you, Susan!

  • Brandy

    Thank you, Bobby Dog! Great info! I’m reluctant to rotate his diet as he tends to have a sensitive tummy & intestinal tract. We thought it was environmental and it could still be.

  • Susan

    Hi Brandy try “Holistic Select” Grainfree Adult/Puppy health Salmon Anchovy & Sardine meal, the grainfree has potatos so if he’s still scratching try their other brands that don’t have starchy potatoes like their Adult Health Anchovy,Sardines & Salmon meal, you can then rotate with their Duck or Lamb as they are single protein kibbles & come under Hypoallergenic kibbles good for dogs with skin problems, here’s their site

  • Bobby dog

    Hi Brandy:
    I had skin issues with my dog that was partly due to fleas and a not so healthy diet. He was red, had allot of fur loss, licking, scratching, sores, and was smelly. My dog experienced allot of crying and waking up in the middle of the night because he was uncomfortable.

    I was feeding canned food and treats that had chemicals and dyes with a well rated GF kibble. To heal him I used a topical antibiotic from the Vet along with oral antibiotics to start the long road to recovery. I began a rotational diet with both kibble and canned foods. I believe the most beneficial part of getting him healthy again was bathing therapy and consistent grooming. It took lots of elbow grease and diligence on my part, eight months worth.

    I have found one protein that he might have a sensitivity to, duck. I am not sure because I want to try another brand to determine if duck might be an issue or if it was another ingredient in the food. After a week on the duck kibble he just became itchy and was rubbing up against anything he could to scratch himself. For all I know he could have gotten into something outside also. You need to consider that it may not be the food it could be environmental. Laundry detergents, floor/carpet cleaners, lawn fertilizer are common culprits.

    I now feed GF and grain inclusive foods, both kibble and canned in a rotation. I change the brand of food, protein, and carb source of the kibble after each bag and change toppers every one to two days. The variety provided by a rotational diet has been positive.

    Another factor that I believe made an impact on his health was the addition of lightly cooked fresh meats, vegetables & fruits, and commercial raw foods as toppers.

    If your Vet feels it is food related, an elimination diet is the only method to determine food sensitivities. Here’s some info on elimination diets:

  • Brandy

    I have a 95lb GS pup that is 23 mos old. Currently trying to find a food that will ease his itchy skin. Honestly, he will scratch until he whimpers!
    He was on Iams lrg breed puppy, until about 2 mos ago. Bender yo has no effect.
    We tried Iams Naturals, and are currently trying RC breed specific (vet’s recommendation & he loves it), but we are still experiencing excessive itching/scratching.
    I’m reading that maybe a grain free diet might be good for this, but I don’t know. It’s all subject to opinion & controversy?
    I’d love to hear from anyone who has had a similar issue & discovered a solution that provided relief.

  • sharron

    thanks – we are doing much better now with food – i had to switch back to RC from orijen and acana – i think lexee has a sensitivity to alfalfa – every time i feed her orijen or acana she starts licking her paws excessively – the alfalfa is the only ingredient that i can think that could be bothering her

  • theBCnut

    First and foremost, you have to do what works for your dog. The best food in the world is no good if your dog starves to death. All you can do is try to improve her diet. It is up to her to eat it. So if it’s RC, feed RC, but don’t give up on trying to give her little bits of fresh foods that will improve her diet. At least it’s not Pedigree or Beneful, those would kill her outright.

  • sharron

    i’ve been called an idiot and have been asked if i am trying to kill my dog by feeding her RC – this took pace at 2 different pet stores – i now buy her RC (moderate calorie) at the vet clinic – i have tried many other foods over the past 5 yrs and she won’t eat them – she likes RC and eats it without any fuss and is doing well on it – i have tried raw (hated it), have done home made twice (both times she brought it all up) and doesn’t like dehydrated

  • WeimyLife

    I work at a dog food store and RC is not my first pick when someone asks for guidance. The corn related ingredients right? Yuck. However, when someone comes to me with a very picky small breed.. RC! The corn gluten acts as an appetite stimulant. Small dogs tend to be finicky. Solves the problem every time!

  • triumph1

    In My German Shepherd that’s about right- much to my amazement.

  • Debra H

    I guess I am curious as to whether it is good for a food to be highly digestible if what is digested is not very high quality, such as brewer’s yeast? Not trying to be negative… but just wondering what is so great about intake of brewer’s yeast.

  • MagnoliaSouth

    I’m glad you like it. My daughter’s dog has done very well on it. However, I will say that ingredients do matter sometimes. Take for example corn or soy. Those are high allergens, which is unfortunate. I blame the entire dog allergy problem on the AKC. Breeding practices for beauty is never a good idea.

  • MagnoliaSouth

    I see nothing wrong with comments from those who support RC. I don’t know why it irritates some of you the way it does. Is it really all that necessary to be so vicious? That makes me think of a study that was done on humans who eat organic food. It has been scientifically proven that those who do, think they’re better than everyone for doing so. Go ahead and Google it. So any of you eat organic, by chance?

    My dogs eat Wellness Core Ocean. It’s a very high quality food and I will fully admit that their coats changed beautifully when I made the switch from many years of Nutro Natural Choice (grain free).

    My daughter recently switched to the RC diet and I was amazed at how much her dog’s coat improved. It’s even more luxurious than my dogs’ on Wellness. No kidding! She’s brighter, healthier, more energetic and overall happier.

    As a veteran human nurse for over 23 years, I can say with absolute and utter authority that sometimes actual nutrients are less important. What matters is what makes the patient a better, healthier patient overall. Do you know how many vegetarians still have heart attacks? Do you know how many organic food eaters are diagnosed with colon cancer? As you can see, the average isn’t always the norm.

    Please refrain from insulting those who appreciate this food, even if you don’t.

  • MagnoliaSouth

    As are you. Just saying.

  • MagnoliaSouth

    Clearly you seems to have your own attitude problem. Nothing is worse than a know-it-all with a holier-than-thou attitude. If you have something to say, then you should know that calling yourself “truly intelligent” and waving away opinions as someone “claiming to be a vet tech, or even only a vet asst” are the best ways to have people ignore you. Just saying. Kindness is key here.

  • theBCnut

    I would be perfectly happy for her to provide evidence of either, though I am aware of the fact that due to density issues volume could be less accurate.

  • theBCnut

    Yes, I know that they take their studies seriously. That was not in question. What was in question was if their food is 98% digestible, which is what was claimed. I didn’t see anything in your link that speaks to that.

    BTW: Their serious studies are to prove that a dog can survive on a food made of garbage, not necessarily to prove what is actually best nutritionally for a dog.

  • aquariangt

    “The people who create the food are experts in the field–vets, scientists, nutritionists. What other dog food can you say that about?”

    Most of them. Including but not limited to Beneful, which is about as garbage as you can get

  • Shawna

    It is apparent that you have no nutritional training or understanding. You say wheat gluten is used for protein as well as carbs and fiber. Yet per Bob’s Red Mill (manufacturer of human foods) wheat gluten has only 1gram of fiber and 4grams of carbohydrates. That’s pretty insignificant especially when you factor that they add actual grains and veggies for fiber and carbs. Plain and simple, wheat gluten is added to inexpensively increase the protein in the diet (wheat gluten has 23grams of protein).

    It might interest you to know that carbohydrates is not an essential nutrient for cats and dogs. A food can be 100% complete and balanced with zero added carbs — some canned foods are this way. In fact, the AAFCO has no minimum requirement for carbohydrates — none, zilch, zero.

    Fat and protein can be utilized for energy as well. HARD working sled dogs are fed a high FAT diet not a high carb diet..

    I’ve been feeding five of my dogs HIGH protein raw for up to 10 years and have had no issues. The other three get a high protein kibble with canned and raw toppers at every meal.

  • Jenna

    The RC company does not conduct the same type of food trials as other companies do. I have been to seminars showing photos and videos, had meetings with vets who worked for RC, and have worked with vets who have actually been to the facilities. They are unique and if you really care to delve into it, then I suggest you do some research on them.

    Not sure what you mean by “feather meal”? As far as you asking about wheat gluten, I do work in animal medicine but I am not a nutritionalist, but I can tell you that it is a highly digestible protein source that is used in conjunction with chicken meal for a balance of correct amino acids chains, carbs, and fiber. Meat alone has no fiber or carbs, so the wheat provides fiber for GI health and carbs that is essential for energy.

    I’ve been feeding all my dogs and cats RC/Waltham for the past 15 years and have had no issues.

  • Shawna

    A “home like environment” is not a home with the different variables that are in place from home to home.

    Veterinary Nutritionist Meg Smart (who TAUGHT veterinary nutrition for over 30 years) states this in an article on her website.

    “The validity of trials conducted on dogs and cats kept in a kennel or research facility is questioned, as these animals do not have the same freedoms and human bonding experiences of the pets kept within a home environment. Most nutritional trials on companion animals are only valid for that particular group, maintained under the same conditions, fed identical diets. Even the results from the relatively simple non invasive digestibility, palatability and feeding trials done in kennels or catteries specifically established and approved to conduct these trials have come under scrutiny when environment, previous diet, gender, breed and age differences are considered”

    An “expert” who feels feather meal, corn gluten meal or wheat gluten, just to name a few, are appropriate ingredients for a canine diet is laughable in my opinion. Please explain to me what necessary nutrient “wheat gluten” can provide in the diet that ANY meat source can’t.

  • Jenna

    Are you talking about weight or volume? You refer to both in your comments, though they are not the same measurements.

  • Jenna

    They actually take their studies and trials very seriously and their facilities can be toured. I have worked with vets that have toured the facility in France and they said it was outstanding. The animals used in their food trials are set up in a “home” like environment, lots of socialization and vet care. When they are done with their trials they are adopted out.

    The people who create the food are experts in the field–vets, scientists, nutritionists. What other dog food can you say that about?

  • LabsRawesome

    I know that’s right!!!!!

  • theBCnut

    Well, since no complete food is 98% digestable, I do already know the outcome, so does everybody else here.

  • Peppy’s Mom

    “But I already know the outcome”. That’s what started it, but no attitude here :)

  • theBCnut

    I brought them on myself by informing you that no dog food is 98% digestable. Oh my!! That surely deserved your attitude. What else did I say, until you started with your attitude?
    And you’re the one that said posting pictures would be gross. We’re all dog lovers here and when you own dogs, nothing is off limits, and poop is a fact of life. When you are discussing what to feed dogs, even more so. BTW, you posted that comment right after someone else posted pictures on another thread about what they found in their dog’s poop. We discuss that sort of thing here. We take our dogs’ health and nutrition very seriously.
    If you’re claiming to be a vet tech, or even only a vet asst, your not the only one, and if you do floats, directs, and send fecal matter off to the lab all day, every day, then you should be able to treat discussions of that nature as common place.

  • Peppy’s Mom

    Actually I “play” with poop on a daily bases checking for parasites and bacteria. Not to mention the blood and vomit too. So no, I’m not going to do that on my time off. I didn’t mean to offend you with the “snide” comments either. You brought them on yourself. Maybe I do need to let the door hit me on my way out now lol. People take things way to seriously. Have a nice life.

  • theBCnut

    You know what just struck me? With all that “experience,” why is she so squeamish about poop and why does she act like there is something wrong with me not being afraid of a little poop?

  • theBCnut

    You’ve insulted the intelligence of everyone on here and that’s not to mention your little snide comments.

    “Well you have fun playing with poop.”

    “Oh never mind, you already know it all.”

    “That’s nice that you know it all too.”

    I simply tried to point out that there is NO dog food that is 98% digestable. You’re the one that started getting nasty.
    Like Cyndi said, don’t forget to upvote your own post, then don’t let the door hit you in the butt.

    ETA: Nevermind, I see you already have.

  • Jennifer Kubler

    Very well said!

  • Jennifer Kubler

    Couldn’t agree more!

  • Cyndi

    Don’t forget to upvote your own comment like you do for all your other ones…

  • Jennifer Kubler

    Absolutely there is always more to learn about everything. I never said I was done. I was just putting my opinion about this food along with some facts about it as well. That’s what this forum is for. No food is perfect. Every animal has different nutrional needs based on age and lifestyle. I don’t need to insult anyone’s intelligence just to feel better about myself. It’s very evident here that’s what you enjoy and must have nothing better to do. I’m done wasting my time here.

  • Cyndi

    Very well said! Happy Independence Day “Party Animal”! 😉

  • theBCnut

    You and I both know that truly intelligent people always know there is always more to learn. If you think you have arrived, then you never understood the destination in the first place.

  • Cyndi

    I beg to differ. If you think RC is a good food, then I don’t believe you are qualified. I’d listen to BCnut about nutrition before I’d listen to someone who thinks rice and corn is a good meal for a dog. & I never claimed to “know it all”. You have a nice day too!

  • Jennifer Kubler

    Yes I only take the best 😉

  • Jennifer Kubler

    That’s nice that you know it all too. I have studied animal health and nutrition for years. I am very qualified to know what I’m talking about. Thank you and have a nice day.

  • Cyndi

    I guarantee she knows alot more than you!

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