Primal Raw Frozen Formulas (Raw Frozen)

Thanks for your response. She only just started doing this and only with the raw chicken. No problems with her kibble or wet food whatsoever.

I just offered her the raw primal duck and she did finish it. Now to see if she holds it down.

An update….she finally did finish the duck. Now I have to see if she keeps it down.

Raw feeding vet Dr. Karen Becker has an article on vomitting and regurgitation. In the article she discusses some causes of regurgitation.

“Motility disorders or problems with the muscle contractions of the esophagus can be either congenital or acquired. An acquired motility disorder can be caused by esophagitis (inflammation of the esophagus), hypoadrenocorticism (which is the fancy name for Addison’s disease), lead toxicity, organophosphate toxicity, myasthenia gravis (a neuromuscular disorder), and possibly hypothyroidism. Megaesophagus or an enlarged esophagus can also cause regurgitation in many pets.” http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/12/17/vomiting-vs-regurgitating.aspx

Just a few weeks ago I posted some data from Certified Pet Nutritionist Monica Segal on megaesophagus.. Monica is an advocate of raw and home cooked diets. She believes food allergies/intolerances can be a cause.. With this in mind, I think it would be a good idea to try a different protein source. And like Gordon, I think it is wise to rotate proteins on a regular basis.

From Monica’s article (note — she doesn’t mention chicken but chicken has the same “lectin” proteins that gluten grains have and can be a cause of food intolerances in dogs. My Pom is intolerant of chicken.)

“Certain
Food Items Are a Must to Avoid
Gluten Is At the Top of the
List!
Some grains contain gluten and
some dogs react to it. These same dogs may be quite able to digest gluten-free
sources of carbohydrates which include: potato, sweet potato, rice, quinoa,
buckwheat (not derived from wheat despite the name), amaranth, corn (not advised
for some dogs – see notes above), and millet.” http://www.gsdhelp.info/gastro/meganutritional.html
Good Luck!!!!!

I started my puppy, 11 month Yorkie now, on primal chicken about 3 weeks ago. She transitioned beautifully and loved it, until this week. She started regurgitating it about a half hour after eating. Now she will not eat the chicken. I’m only offering it for her morning feeding now as she can’t be doing this all day. Should I try a different protein at this point? Maybe she tired of it? I’m so disappointed.

Hi Laura –

The best website concerning homemade food – imo – is Dog Aware. There’s a ton of info there. http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html.

I’m not sure if you’re interested in raw or cooked homemade but “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a wonderful resource for first time raw feeders.

If you go to the forum section there’s some good tips, suggestions and recipes there as well. I actually have “recipes” for what I feed my dogs posted in the menus section (I feed raw). I did a nutrient analysis on my latest menus and they exceed the AAFCO nutrient standards for all life stages. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/menus/page/3/

Pre-mixes and vitamin/mineral balances are always a good option for beginners as well. With a pre-mix all you generally have to do is add water and fresh raw or cooked meat – the mix contains the fruits, vegetables, vitamins, minerals, etc. Some good pre-mixes are The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Urban Wolf, Sojo’s, Grandma Lucy’s, Dr. Harvey’s and Birkdale. With vitamin/mineral mixes you just add meat to create a complete and balanced meal – fruits, vegetables, etc. can be added as up to 20% of the meal but it’s optional. Some vitamin/mineral mixes are See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix (formulated by Steve Brown who wrote “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet that I mentioned earlier), U-Stew and Wysong’s Call of the Wild.

can anyone here recommend a resource for making a homemade diet? there’s so much information and my head is swimming. i’d love a recipe if anyone wants to share. really wanting to make the food from scratch, but want to make sure it’s balanced and complete.

I see Primal’s Lamb and Beef formulas only contain Lamb/Beef Hearts and Livers as their ONLY meat source. You mean wolves and other carnivores will only eat hearts and livers of their preys??? I tried it because of its 5 star rating here and after transitioning them from Nature’s Variety, my dogs experienced bouts of diarrhea and I am noticing increased fur loss and chewing. Primal might be a lot of things but not all their formulas are equal. For a brand with such a hefty price tag, I would expect no less from them.

Hi Robert –

I would suggest rotating through all the protein sources as long as your new pup doesn’t have any issues with certain proteins. The more variety the better. Primal has a feeding calculator on their website (remember this is just a starting point, feed her the amount she needs to maintain optimum body condition – you may have to adjust the recommended amount and feed more or less): http://www.primalpetfoods.com/education/calc

The thing I dislike about the higher fat foods is that a lot of people like to add things like coconut oil, salmon oil etc. When adding to an already exceedingly high fat food, the fat is skewed even more.

For extremely active large breed dogs this is okay but my crew would never meet their protein needs on these higher fat foods even WITHOUT adding any extra fats that I like to add. I’m particularly fond of pumpkin seed oil.

I love the ingredients in Answers and I think the VP of the company Jacqueline Hill is amazingly talented when it comes to nutrition. But the food is just too high in fat to use as a staple diet for my crew.

Darwin’s wouldn’t be my first choice as far as pre-made raw goes.

What I like about Answer’s and Aunt Jeni’s is that all the nutrients are derived from whole foods and the calorie and fat content is a little higher which works best for my crew. The other thing I really like about all three foods that I mentioned – Answer’s, Aunt Jeni’s, Primal – is that the protein isn’t the only thing that’s different with each variety – fruit and vegetables and in some cases even fat sources and whole foods supplements are switched up between varieties. Most other brands offer different protein sources, but all other ingredients remain the same so in order to practice true rotational feeding you’d have to rotate with another brand.

If I had to go pre-made I’d use Answer’s or Aunt Jeni’s. I also like the non-HPP Primal varieties (the ones without any poultry, the poultry varieties are HPP).

Hi mward1993 -

I’m currently spending about $400 per month to feed 3 large dogs (110 lbs., 70 lbs., and a 60 lb. puppy). I started getting most of my meat in bulk from a wholesale distributor which cut my costs a lot. Here are some examples of what I typically feed my dogs in a day: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/menus/

Only the Venison could be added at 16% DM fat. The Turkey/Sardine is 25% DM fat.

My crew are well acclimated to different amounts of protein and fat that they haven’t had issues with anything I give them.  Just another “pro” for diet rotation.  I even leave the skin on my raw foods when they get it.

I’m sure it’s on the To-Do list already!  I haven’t tried it yet but know it’s high in fat (79-100% fat-to-protein ratio).  I’m currently using Nutrisca freeze dried occasionally as a treat not as meals which is slightly lower in fat.

Hi Liz –

If you can, I would recommend going with a frozen raw food versus the freeze-dried. Frozen raw is less processed and has a much greater moisture content, it would probably be cheaper in the long run as well. I personally prefer Primal to Stella and Chewy’s, although Stella and Chewy’s is not a bad food. If your dog does fine on both there would be no reason you couldn’t rotate between both brands.

As far as supplements for the home cooked meals, whether or not they’re necessary would depend on how often you are feeding home cooked meals. I think you could safely feed home cooked for one or two days out of the week without needing supplements, if you are feeding it more often than that I would recommend supplements so you don’t risk throwing off the overall nutritional balance.

If you’re cooking the food, you won’t use any bone. You should aim for 90% muscle meat and 10% organ meat. So for a pound of meat there should be about 14.5 oz. muscle meat and 1.5 oz. organ meat (liver, kidneys, etc.). You will also need to add 800-1,000 mg. calcium for each pound of meat fed. I would also add about 1/2 C. cooked, pureed vegetables for every pound of meat fed. The supplements you will need to add are an Omega 3 (I would go with a reduced vitamin a cod liver oil or tinned sardines, for the vitamin d as well), vitamin e (about 50-100 i.u. per 25 lbs.) and trace nutrient supplements (kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, bee pollen, etc.). Extras like eggs, cottage cheese, and yogurt can be added as well at a rate of about 1/4 C. per 1 lb. meat. You can find some great tips for homemade diets (both cooked and raw) at dogaware.com.

My pet loved this. She refuses to eat her food with out it. He coat has improved and so has her stool. Would recommend this product to everyone. Slightly expensive, but totally worth it. 

Thanks,  I looked at that page, don’t know why I didn’t scroll down to the ingredients. Good point about rotating.

thanks for responding! I need to get it out of the freezer!

I don’t think it’s really necessary to gradually introduce it to them, you could feed it for an entire meal or mix it in with the Darwin’s pre-made raw. On their new feeding schedule I recently put them on (I switch it up every few months) my dogs are getting green tripe supermix from my pet carnivore for breakfast every other morning (1 lb. for each). The thing about green tripe is it naturally has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio and good ratios of essential fatty acids so it really can be fed as a balanced meal on it’s own a few times a week. I’ve actually read where it’s safe to feed green tripe for up to 75% of a dog’s diet (I don’t think I’d feed quite that much though).

I use commercially prepared raw. I rotate in some canned also. I’m just not comfortable formulating it myself. Even giving it as part of the diet is better than not giving it at all.

Hi K~T –

Premade frozen raw is extremely expensive – especially if you have large dogs or multiple dogs. I could never afford pre-made for my three bloodhounds, it would probably cost me over $1,000 a month. Primal’s complete formulas average about $6.85 per pound and my dogs all eat about two pounds each per day. I’d love to do pre-made for convenience reasons but it’s just not financially practical. I do homemade raw and it’s so much cheaper. I’m feeding all three for around $600 a month now. I order everything in bulk – I get meat from a supplier that supplies local restaurants/grocery stores. The minimum order is 300 lbs. but I pay about half the price of what meat is sold for at the grocery store. I also order tripe, whole prey animals, and some organ meats from hare-today.com and mypetcarnivore.com.

Yes, I feed Darwins and Brothers! (darn, was hoping it was apple and pumpkin pie! LOL). Richard, you probably still have my email from a couple weeks ago, I’d like to see it too!

Pie chart? What is that? (Yeah, I know you’re talking to Monkey but since I feed Darwins as well, I’m nosey)

Agreed, Darwin’s is the best looking of the raw diets. I do feed Primals non HPP meats and they look pretty comparable to Bravo. But Darwins does look much more appitizing.

I cant get past how fake this food looks. I feel way better feeding Darwins, it looks like real food. Maybe using one of their non HPP foods would be better. I bought the turkey and sardine formula. 

Bob, the price per pound should be same.  We did not raise prices, rather reduced bag weight by 25% and wholesale price by 25% per pound.  This should translate to a 25% per pound reduction at retail.  If you are having pricing issues at retail, please contact us immediately and we will contact your local retailer.  You can call us toll free 866-566-4652. Thank you!

Joliege,
MOISTURE ! The freeze dried has no moisture. The wet raw has to have the moisture removed for classification purposes. So if the wet raw is 75% moisture that only leaves 25% total for everything else. Try comparing them using ratios. 

I like the new bag design but whats up with the less food for the same price? Com’on now…

Thank you so much for this information!!  I am in the process of switching my dog to a raw food diet, but I need to find low-fat choices due to my dog’s recent bout of pancreatitis.  Another brand had their duck frozen raw food choice w/ just 5% fat; the Primal Formula for Dogs w/ Duck as stated above is 10% – which is too much for my dog!   Thanks again for your great information!

Hi LA,

I’ve actually used both Darwins raw and Primal for both of my pugs. They are both excellent products that I researched and chose to feed based on the ingredients and mostly fat content. The average fat % on raw food would be about 27% and these range on the lower end at 22% to 25% fat. Darwins has fantastic customer service. They are mail order only and will customize, change or stop your order as needed. Delivery was within 2 days of ordering to CA. Their meat is packed in sealed packets for each 1/2 lb if I remember correctly which made it easy to defrost and serve to small dogs. Meat is very fresh, nice pinky red coloring. The only con for Darwins is you have to order least a minimum of 20 lbs each time, And it is pricey.

I currently use Primal raw and have found this also to be great quality. I love that they have such a wide variety of meats to chose from and rotate. I can buy Primal at a few pet stores within a 10 mile radius of my home which makes it easy to Find. I mostly use the turkey/sardine, rabbit, venison and quail for my dogs that Have allergies. It is also very convenient to use the 1 oz cubes with my smaller dogs.

You can’t go wrong with either of these products. Good luck on your decision.

Dawn aka Pugs

Hi LA,I use Darwins. I use the beef and duck formulas right now. I also plan on using Primal’s Turkey & Sardine. I love how fresh Darwins is and i don’t have to worry about how the distributors and retailers store the food since it is shipped straight to me. (couple retailers in my area don’t carry Primal anymore because the distributor wasn’t always handling it correctly). If i open up a bag of Primal and it is all frosty, it is going back to the store. 

I’ve never used Darwin’s, Primal is the only pre-made raw I’ve used (I generally make my own). Darwin looks like a good quality food but I prefer Primal for thre reasons: 1) They use different fruits, vegetables, herbs, and fat sources in each formula – Darwin’s only switches proteins. So if you rotate formulas using Primal your dog will get more variety and 2) Darwin’s is a little cheaper per pound but it has a lot less calories than Primal (I’m guessing Darwin’s has more moisture) meaning you’d have to feed a lot more, and finally 3) Darwin’s uses synthetic vitamins and minerals, the nutrients in Primal are derived from whole food sources. But with that set they’re both great foods and I’m sure your dog would do great on either.

Yeah, Primal’s been using HPP for well over a year now. I’m not a huge fan, but I use the mixes and only the Chicken and Turkey are HPP; the Sardine, Beef, Lamb, and Buffalo are not.

yes, we make raw free range chicken necks and we add broccoli, kale, carrots, coconut, blueberries, alfalfa, parsley, and more.
They love it.
YMMV.