Hill’s Science Diet Adult (Dry)

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Rating: ★★½☆☆

Hill’s Science Diet Adult dry dog food earns the Advisor’s second-lowest tier rating of 2.5 stars.

The Hill’s Science Diet Adult product line lists 17 dry dog foods.

Although each formulation appears to be designed for a specific life stage, we found no AAFCO nutritional profile recommendations for these dog foods on the product website. So, it’s impossible for us to report life stage targets for these recipes.

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

  • Science Diet Adult Light
  • Science Diet Adult Oral Care
  • Science Diet Adult Large Breed
  • Science Diet Adult Sensitive Skin
  • Science Diet Adult Light Small Bites
  • Science Diet Adult Large Breed Light
  • Science Diet Adult Sensitive Stomach
  • Science Diet Adult Small and Toy Breed
  • Science Diet Adult Healthy Mobility (2 stars)
  • Science Diet Adult Advanced Fitness Original
  • Science Diet Adult Small and Toy Breed Light
  • Science Diet Adult Advanced Fitness Small Bites
  • Science Diet Adult Large Breed Lamb Meal and Rice
  • Science Diet Adult Healthy Mobility Small Bites (2 stars)
  • Science Diet Adult Advanced Fitness Lamb Meal and Rice
  • Science Diet Adult Healthy Mobility Large Breed (2 stars)
  • Science Diet Adult Advanced Fitness Small Bites Lamb Meal & Rice

Science Diet Adult Advanced Fitness Lamb Meal and Rice was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Hill's Science Diet Adult Advanced Fitness Lamb Meal and Rice

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 24% | Fat = 16% | Carbs = 51%

Ingredients: Lamb meal, brewers rice, brown rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, whole grain sorghum, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), cracked pearled barley, chicken liver flavor, flaxseed, lactic acid, dried beet pulp, soybean oil, potassium chloride, iodized salt, l-lysine, choline chloride, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), niacin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement), taurine, minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), l-tryptophan, mixed tocopherols added to retain freshness, citric acid added to retain freshness, l-threonine, phosphoric acid, beta-carotene, rosemary extract

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 2%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis24%16%NA
Dry Matter Basis24%16%51%
Calorie Weighted Basis21%35%45%

The first ingredient in this dog food is lamb meal. Lamb meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh lamb.

The second ingredient includes brewers rice. Brewers rice is a cereal grain by-product consisting of the small fragments left over after milling whole rice. Aside from the caloric energy it contains, this item is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The third ingredient is brown rice, a complex carbohydrate that (once cooked) can be fairly easy to digest. However, aside from its natural energy content, rice is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The fourth ingredient is corn gluten meal. Gluten is the rubbery residue remaining once corn has had most of its starchy carbohydrate washed out of it.

Compared to meat, glutens are inferior grain-based proteins lower in some of the essential amino acids dogs need for life.

This inexpensive plant-based ingredient can significantly boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The fifth ingredient is wheat. Like corn, wheat is an inexpensive and controversial cereal grain of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

For this reason, we do not consider wheat a preferred component in any dog food.

The sixth ingredient includes sorghum. Sorghum (milo) is a starchy cereal grain with a nutrient profile similar to corn.

Since it is gluten-free and boasts a smoother blood sugar behavior than other grains, sorghum may be considered an acceptable non-meat ingredient.

The seventh ingredient includes animal fat. Animal fat is a generic by-product of rendering, the same high-temperature process used to make meat meals.

Since there’s no mention of a specific animal, this item could come from almost anywhere: roadkill, spoiled supermarket meat, dead, diseased or dying cattle — even euthanized livestock.

For this reason, we do not consider generic animal fat a quality ingredient.

The eighth ingredient is barley. Barley is a starchy carbohydrate supplying fiber and other healthy nutrients. Unlike grains with a higher glycemic index, barley can help support more stable blood sugar levels.

After the chicken liver flavor, we find flaxseed, one of the best plant sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Provided they’ve first been ground into a meal, flax seeds are also rich in soluble fiber.

However, flaxseed contains about 19% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With three notable exceptions

First, soybean oil is red flagged here only due to its rumored (yet unlikely) link to canine food allergies.

However, since soybean oil is high in omega-6 fatty acids and contains no omega-3′s, it’s considered less nutritious than flaxseed oil or a named animal fat.

Next, we find no mention of probiotics, friendly bacteria applied to the surface of the kibble after processing to help with digestion.

And lastly, the minerals listed here do not appear to be chelated. And that can make them more difficult to absorb. Non-chelated minerals are usually associated with lower quality dog foods.

Hill’s Science Diet Adult Dry Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Hill’s Science Diet Adult dry dog food looks like a below average dry product.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 24%, a fat level of 16% and estimated carbohydrates of about 51%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 24% and a mean fat level of 14%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 54% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 59%.

Below-average protein. Below-average fat. And above-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

When you consider the protein-boosting effect of the corn gluten meal and flaxseed contained in this recipe and the use of pea protein, pea bran and soybean meal in other recipes, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a below-average amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Hill’s Science Diet Adult dry dog food is a plant-based kibble using only a modest amount of named meat meals as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 2.5 stars.

Not recommended.

Please note some products may have been given higher or lower ratings based upon our estimate of their total meat content.

Special Alert

Rice ingredients can sometimes contain arsenic. Until the US FDA establishes safe upper levels for arsenic content, pet owners may wish to limit the total amount of rice fed in a dog's daily diet.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

12/27/2009 Original review
08/01/2010 Review updated
11/21/2011 Review updated
02/17/2013 Review updated
02/17/2013 Last Update

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nola-Tax/100000552491948 Nola Tax

    Well, we have used Science Diet for years. NOW within a few months, both my dogs ARE getting diareah from it. And it is definitely the food! The day I cooked boiled chicken and rice, the diarreah went away. As soon as I gave them SD again, it came back—same day!

  • Shawna

    Hi HDM,

    I found the following data when pulling up info for another post. Thought you might find it interesting. :)

    “People on low-carbohydrate diets are more dependent on the oxidation of fat in the liver for energy than those on a low-calorie diet, researchers at UT Southwestern Medical Center have found in a small clinical study.

    The findings, published in the journal Hepatology, could have implications for treating obesity and related diseases such as diabetes, insulin resistance and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, said Dr. Jeffrey Browning, assistant professor in the UT Southwestern Advanced Imaging Research Center and of internal medicine at the medical center.

    “Instead of looking at drugs to combat obesity and the diseases that stem from it, maybe optimizing diet can not only manage and treat these diseases, but also prevent them,” said Dr. Browning, the study’s lead author…..” http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090120074631.htm

    PS — I know we can both find data to support our views but I just wanted to put it out there that more and more data regarding carbs is coming to light. :)

  • Emily F.

    If your referring to a Vet as a nutritionist they are FAR from it. They are like medical doctors trying to be dietitians. There is a select few who have gone beyond vet school to learn about REAL nutrition. The one or two nutrition classes they had in school were put on by SCIENCE DIET or ROYAL CANIN. Your talking about diarrhea your pets supposedly got when you transitioned? Look when you try to switch from a grain based unnatural food to a natural MEAT based food its like going through detox. All the bad foods are addicting, Its like a person being addicted to a drug or mcdonalds. They go through a transition period where yes they will most likely get loser stools for a period of time but like I said that is the detox process and they will clear up and be WAY BETTER OFF… :) Dogs and Cats are carnivores period the end. They shouldnt be eating grains like COWS eat. Just because they are domesticated doesnt make them any less of a carnivore!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.tripper.3950 Jack Tripper

    kibbles n bits, gravy train = del monte
    purina, beneful, dog chow = nestle
    iams, eukanuba = procter & gamble
    hills, science diet = colgate-palmolive
    pedigree, nutro, royal canin = mars candy

  • LabsRawesome

    Jack, Haha SMH

  • Pattyvaughn

    Exactly!! I don’t go to Purina for dishsoap, mouthwash, and toothpaste. I’m not going to Colgate-Palmolive for dog food.

  • Pattyvaughn

    HaHaHaHa

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.tripper.3950 Jack Tripper

    hmm but they have science in their name so i’m pretty sure they know what they’re talking about.

  • LabsRawesome

    Ali, Science diet is good food? LOL. Which ingredients do you believe
    are “good” for dogs? Is it the brewer’s rice? The brown rice? Corn
    gluten meal? The wheat? Maybe it’s the nondescript “animal” fat. Please
    give me a break, The “Science” in Science diet is figuring out how to
    make the cheapest possible “food” while making the biggest profit. Dogs
    need animal protein NOT grains. Good nutrition is not rocket science,
    it’s actually just common sense. And I have enough common sense not to
    feed low grade expensive dog food.

  • LabsRawesome

    Jack, lol. Corn gluten meal contains plant proteins, which are incomplete, and not species appropriate. Science Diet is a poor excuse for dog food.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.tripper.3950 Jack Tripper

    the creator of hills, dr mark morris sr, was born in 1901 and died in 1993. colgate-palmolive bought it back in 1976 though so i’m sure it took a turn for the worse a long long time ago.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.tripper.3950 Jack Tripper

    hill’s liability corp, n.a.

  • Shawna

    If I can’t trust most vets for appropriate nutritional recommendations, why on earth would I trust a pet insurance company?

    I don’t think they are lying though. I think many simply don’t know any better. I asked my own vet why Science Diet put ethoxyquin (known to harm the kidneys) in their prescription kidney diet? Not only did she not know why, but she didn’t even know what ethoxyquin is (this was several years back – SD has since removed the ethoxyquin from the food).

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.tripper.3950 Jack Tripper

    i think its the corn gluten meal. it has the proteins

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.tripper.3950 Jack Tripper

    i think you mean roundup ready corn. both roundup and agent orange are monsanto products. agent orange, however, is a defoliant / chemical weapon used to kill people and clear jungles so charlie can’t hide. roundup is used to kill weeds and has been sprayed all over colombia in a failed attempt to eradicate cocaine. nearly all gmo crops are “roundup ready”. monsanto makes roundup and it makes the seeds that are genetically modified to be resistant to roundup.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.tripper.3950 Jack Tripper

    it makes sense to me that a pet insurance company would recommend mid-level foods like science diet, iams and royal canin. they wouldn’t want the pets they are insuring to become overly costly from their owners feeding them things like kibbles n bits, ol roy or beneful. however, they also wouldn’t want pet owners feeding them high quality food or becoming too knowledgeable lest it would eliminate the need for their service. having a pet right in the middle is exactly the place they need it to be to ensure they are profitable.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Who is the underwriter for your pet insurance?

  • LabsRawesome

    Ali, Science diet is good food? LOL. Which ingredients do you believe are “good” for dogs? Is it the brewer’s rice? The brown rice? Corn gluten meal? The wheat? Maybe it’s the nondescript “animal” fat. Please give me a break, The “Science” in Science diet is figuring out how to make the cheapest possible “food” while making the biggest profit. Dogs need animal protein NOT grains. Good nutrition is not rocket science, it’s actually just common sense. And I have enough common sense not to feed low grade expensive dog food.

  • Pattyvaughn

    It’s not just this thread. I’ve had it happen to me on a couple other threads.

  • losul

    Aimee, I think this particular thread has some kind of disqus problems? At least it does for me. It seems alot of the posts have dissappeared into cyberspace or are invisible.. And they change times posted, strange

    I’ll probably eventually find your reply.

  • aimee

    I’ve read that the role of fat in the diet in humans is less clear than in other species.

    I’m not sure how this study fits in as it was a isocaloric weight loss study. I don’t have the time right now to carefully read it.

    To support your point of view ( I’m not exactly sure what that is ??) it would be best to show a similar study in dogs which comes to a conclusion other than what I have stated.

  • Ali

    I again have no medical training. I do however have pet insurance, and I just read in their blog that they believe Science Diet and other big pet food brands are good brands. Directly from the blog:

    Here are some questions you should ask about a pet food company before you buy.

    Is there a veterinary nutritionist on staff?

    Does the company archive its ingredients? This is done so they have a way to test ingredients if a problem arises.

    Does the company do AAFCO feeding trials on any of their foods? This is not a federal requirement but one that good companies do feeding trials to insure quality control.

    Where are the diets made? Many of these pet food companies don’t have their own plants and farm the manufacturing out to other companies who make many of the foods on the shelves.

    Iams, Science Diet, Purina and Royal Canin all make their own dry diets and can answer yes to all the above questions.

    They say that vets do not get kick backs for their recommendations, and I trust them, even if that’s maybe just me being naive. However, if these are pet insurance companies, this particular one having the highest customer service rating of all of them, wouldn’t it be in their best interest to recommend healthy foods? They are responsible for paying out for chronic, long-term health problems (which is why I chose this particular company), so wouldn’t they want to minimize their costs? Maybe they’re lying, and they get money from the big dog food companies, but I really doubt that they would get enough money from those companies to counter the amount of money the would have to pay out to those people they insure.

    Who knows, maybe this is the optimist in me speaking, but if everyone’s lying, we’ve got bigger issues. I’m willing to take that risk until the veterinarian in my family and/or someone I actually know, has a real issue with one of these companies.

  • Shawna

    An isocaloric diet study done on humans did not come up with those same results.

    VLCARB – very low carb

    VLF – very low fat

    HUG – high unsaturated fat (less lean muscle loss but overall fat loss didn’t differ between the three diets and no differences in “regional” fat)

    “Body composition

    DEXA data indicated both the VLCARB and VLF diets resulted in significantly more lean mass loss as a proportion of weight loss (32% and 31%) compared to the HUF diet (21%) (P < 0.05) whereas the proportion of fat loss did not differ between diets (Table 4). DEXA data also indicated no significant differences in regional fat or lean mass loss between diets." http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/3/1/7

    For every study you find favoring your point of view, I can likely find one favoring mine as well.

  • Shawna

    Good points Losul!! I do think the lower protein amount in the foods impacted the study too however.

    I would assume rats have similar metabolisms to mice? “The reduced energy intake of rats fed a high-protein low-carbohydrate diet explains the lower fat deposition, but macronutrient substitution accounts for the improved glycemic control.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16772448

    The below study on pigs, demonstrates decreased protein equaled increased fat disposition (no mention on whether fat or carbs was increased to compensate for the lower protein). http://www.animalbytes.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/2009_102stonehouse.pdf

    I found similar data regarding poultry, fish and cattle.

  • aimee

    I wrote a reply addressing that issue but it “disappeared” maybe it will “reappear”

    Briefly, the weights between both groups were similar (except for the last weigh in), yet the fat deposition was consistently higher in the fat fed group. If the fat fed group was consistently eating more I’d have expected to see a difference in body weights between the two groups.

    True this wasn’t a dog study, though similar findings have been seen in dogs and other species.

    It is reported that when isocaloric diets that differ in fat content are fed to dogs, a higher % of body fat is found in the dogs eating the higher fat diets.

  • losul

    Shawna I guess the point I was trying to make
    though, was that there was no control in the total amount of calories fed, the mice were given free access to one or the other diets.

    I think it likely could be that the mice eating the high fat /low carb diet were eating a greater number of calories overall. Seeing that mice much prefer plant material, they may have been eating more trying to get their normal ration of carbs, or even eating an equal volume of food, when the high fat/low carb diet is more caloric dense. Even if the calories were equally controlled in both diets, I would still find it irrelevant for dog physiology to be compared to mice, therefore I find the Purina report referencing that study to be entirely faulty/deceptive, as I find many Purina, Hills etc. reports/studies to be, and in this case, especially the following reference to the mouse study in that it supposedly somehow pertains to dogs.

    “However,total fat deposition was 2.5 times greater when the high fat diet was fed, thus this study actually shows a beneficial effect when carbohydrates replace some of the fat in the diet.13. ”

    Purina didn’t even tell that that reference came from a mouse study, lol.

  • aimee

    losul is right, those are my words.

    This paralleled what was seen in the body growth composition study in dogs when % of calories fed from protein was held constant and fat and carb %’s differed.

    I don’t see this though as saying that a dog that takes a significant portion of calories from fat will be overweight or obese.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Very low!! Course I don’t know what would be high protein for a mouse.

  • Cate

    ACANA Chicken & Burbank Potato, ACANA Grasslands has no sodium selenite. I didn’t check the other formulas but I would assume they are the same.

  • Shawna

    PS — I don’t count my dogs calories either. I do measure by weight but have NO idea how many calories are in any of the foods I feed.

  • Shawna

    Interesting, protein is low in both diets!!
    Thanks Losul!

  • Pattyvaughn

    I don’t either.

  • Shawna

    Until I started consuming larger amounts of dairy on a very regular basis I was always very thin and never counted calories (dairy mainly in the form of cheese on salads and milk in my coffee). I was even very thin (except my belly) when pregnant with my daughter and my only exercise was walking when it wasn’t too hot (she was born in September so it was often too hot). I wore my pre-pregnancy clothes out of the hospital after giving birth.

    It boils down to insulin and leptin. In addition to foods that cause an insulin spike, there are certain foods like dairy and gluten, if we are intolerant, that can bind with insulin receptors causing them to always be on and insulin to be over produced.

    Good video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uelUWmKs4fc

    Okay, this one has more info on leptin (I just liked the above video :)

    Research done a couple of years ago in St. Louis and in Japan pinpointed the problem. Triglycerides – fat circulating in the blood – interrupts the passage of leptin across the BBB. If trigylcerides are high, which they are in most obese people, then, basically, they block the movement of leptin into the brain. So, leptin levels are elevated in the blood, and triglycerides keep the leptin from getting to where it needs to get to shut off hunger. (click here for the abstract and full text of this research paper.)

    We all know that the commonest lab finding in people following a low-carb diet is a dramatic reduction in triglyceride levels. This reduction in triglycerides allows the leptin that is already circulating in relatively large amounts to get through to the brain where it can reduce hunger. I believe that this reduction in triglycerides (which happens fairly quickly) is the primary reason that people substantially decrease their hunger on low-carb diets. And remember from the graphic above that leptin – once it gets to the brain – actually increases thermogenesis as well, which means that the metabolic rate increases.” http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/metabolism/leptin-low-carb-and-hunger/

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Don’t wanna hear it patty! lol

  • InkedMarie

    I love nh the most in the fall! Never been to Wisconsin.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I keep going back to look for a specific comment and can’t find what I’m looking for either.

  • Pattyvaughn

    We are in the mid to upper 80s.

  • losul

    Marie, I’m in Missouri. We had some major snow 2 1/2 weeks ago, but it promptly warmed up and melted off very quickly. Been in the 70′s recently, last coupla weeks. 40′s today, 30′s tonight.

    I love NH and Vermont, especially in the summer months.

  • losul

    well at least I’m not the only one with disqus blues today.. Most of this thread I can’t even see most of the time. comes and goes.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I got snow this morning and it’s supposed to snow the next three days. Gotta love living in the north pole.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Hi Losul, I’m having Disqus issues too. It put an old post up at the top of a thread with a new time on it. I recognized it and made a trollish comment about it being a copy of an old post and the poster being a troll. Then the comment disapeared back to where it belonged. I love Disqus, NOT.

  • InkedMarie

    Where do you live? I’m in nh and we’ve had some really nice dys and part of nh will have snow tomorrow!

  • losul

    Hi Shawna, just staying busy with other things. It’s that time of year, had some great weather recently, although it’s turning cold again now :(

    disqus is not working well for me at all today. posts disappearing. Just now saw yours.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I’ve read information before suggesting that “type” of calories consumed affects weight loss. However, as an avid calorie counter for both myself and my dogs I’ve never found that to be true. Unless of course we’re talking something Atkins-esque (which isn’t effective long term). I’ve just found that all the “type” of calories affects is satiety. If I eat 1,000 calories of pasta – in my experience – it will have the same effect on my waistline as 1,000 calories of steak and vegetables, I’d just be hungry sooner after the pasta. Of course I’m not a scientist – just my experience.

  • losul

    Shawna, I think those must have been Aimee’s own words you quoted. I didn’t see those words in the study. this is what I saw;

    “However,total fat deposition was 2.5 times greater when the high fat diet was fed, thus this study actually shows a beneficial effect when carbohydrates replace some of the fat in the diet.13. ”

    “On arrival, the mice were randomized to two groups. Each group was given free access to either diet I or diet II, purchased from Research Diets (New Brunswick, NJ; diet I, no. D12450B, kcal distribution  10% fat, 70% carbohydrate, and 20% protein;diet II, no. D12451, kcal distribution  45% fat, 35% carbohydrate, and 20% protein.”

  • losul

    Aimee, I’d really like to know how a study on mice that are primarily herbivores-insectivores relates to dogs as referenced in that Purina report.

    Why were the diets not controlled for total calories, instead of just free feeding?

    “On arrival, the mice were randomized to two groups. Each group was given free access to either diet I or diet II, purchased from Research Diets (New Brunswick, NJ; diet I, no. D12450B, kcal distribution  10% fat, 70% carbohydrate, and 20% protein;diet II, no. D12451, kcal distribution  45% fat, 35% carbohydrate, and 20% protein.”

    I think you put way too much faith in these reports/studies put out by the likes of Purina, Hills, etc. Every time I read one in depth, I have ever less faith in them.

    [this is second posting, this time without link, evidently disqus didn't like my link to the study?]

  • Shawna

    Well howdy! Did you have a nice break?

  • Shawna

    Interesting! Thanks

  • Pattyvaughn

    I personally have very lean dogs and feed high fat. Usually a dog with abdominal fat will lose it’s waist just like a person with abdominal fat. I think some dogs are more predisposed to fat deposits than others and I think that allowing your dog to become overweight as most people do, has an effect on body fat composition as well. That being said, my very lean 11 year old JRT has in the last year developed fatty pads over her kidneys, only noticable to me because I know her so well, but they are there. She waited until she was over 10 to start adding fat, so that could be a metabolism issue instead, impossible to know. Her bloodwork is perfect.

  • Shawna

    I agree with you to an extent. Lots of human doctors and practitioners are choosing fat over carbs when suggesting weight loss foods. Even one of the articles I’ve quoted before suggests that reduced “calories” is not the only reason for weight loss in low carb diets. I’ll see if I can find it again.

    “In a review of the efficacy of low-carbohydrate diets (3), weight was associated with decreased caloric intake and increased diet duration and not simply with a change in the macronutrient profile of the diet. Low-carbohydrate diets also help stabilize blood glucose levels throughout the day, preventing the hypoglycemia after a high-carbohydrate meal that causes hunger (8,9). This study, however, found no differences in the calories consumed among the groups, whereas the low-carbohydrate groups still lost significantly more weight and fat mass than the high-carbohydrate groups. This suggests that decreased caloric intake is not the sole mechanism of action of low-carbohydrate diets.” http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/8/2087S.full

    Again, medical doctors and such have been saying this, in people, for some time now.

  • losul

    Aimee, I’d really like to know how a study on mice that are primarily herbivores-insectivores relates to dogs as referenced in that Purina report.

    Why were the diets not controlled for total calories, instead of just free feeding?

    “On arrival, the mice were randomized to two groups. Each group was given free access to either diet I or diet II, purchased from Research Diets (New Brunswick, NJ; diet I, no. D12450B, kcal distribution  10% fat, 70% carbohydrate, and 20% protein;diet II, no. D12451, kcal distribution  45% fat, 35% carbohydrate, and 20% protein).”

    http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/285/4/E917.full.pdf

    I think you put way too much faith in these reports/studies put out by the likes of Purina, Hills, etc. Every time I read one in depth, I have ever less faith in them.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I could be wrong but I would tend to assume it would be excess calories that cause the issues. Anything consumed in excess – protein, carbs or fat – is converted to body fat. Correct? I would also think the types of fat fed would factor in – I (try my best) to balance the fats following Steve Brown’s guidelines. I just know it would be impractical to feed my dogs low or even some moderate fat foods. They would have to eat such massive quantities it would be ridiculous. For example if I were feeding Darwin’s my dogs would require 4 – 5 lbs. per day (depending on variety) or with Bravo Balance they would require 5 – 5 1/2 lbs. per day (per dog). I would be going through around 100 lbs. of food per week! It’s bad enough right now, they go through just under 50 lbs. of meat a week…

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I didn’t interpret your post as you saying anyone’s dogs were fat. Just that the study you quoted seemed to imply that dogs that consume a high fat diet tend to have more body fat, which I don’t believe to be the case when the overall calorie levels are appropriate (if I interpreted it correctly that is).

  • Shawna

    Thanks Patty – so do you believe that fat in amounts of 43% of calories leads to fat deposits? While the dog outwardly remains very lean and muscular?

    Would fatty liver not show on blood work? I know some things don’t (at first at least).

  • Shawna

    “When the percent of calories fed from protein is held constant and calories are shifted from being fed as carb to being fed as fat increased fat deposition occured.”

    The percent of calories from protein is not exactly constant as it fluctuates but is always high. And my pups definitely get more calories from fat than from carbs.

  • Pattyvaughn

    This is a copy of an old post that was refuted properly. Go to the website and look up the exact food that the ingredients are listed for and you will see that the ingredients are exactly the same as listed. You are a troll.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Fat deposits often refers to abdominal fat as in fatty liver, fat around the organs, and can refer to fat pads around the tail head and other places or lipomas.

  • aimee

    What specifically are you reading in the study that led you to think it was saying your and HDM’s dogs should be fat?

    I did not interpret anything I read as saying that.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Yeah Gertie is definitely the leanest of the three. My mom always jokes and says the breeder snuck some greyhound in there on me lol. Gus and Mabel are actually closer to the “ideal” bloodhound body condition – however even they might be slightly leaner than what you’d see in a bloodhound competing in conformation. Bloodhounds are supposed to be pretty “thick.”

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Thanks :)

  • InkedMarie

    I would love to smooch her wrinkles :)

  • InkedMarie

    Great picture!

  • Shawna

    Gertie has some amazing muscle definition in that pic!! Mabel is SOOO cute!!!! Not so little any more though :(

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I guess this is actually a better pic of Gertie’s body condition.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Mine uploaded one the second try when I used the picture button on the bottom rather than the drag and drop.

  • Shawna

    I had problems the other day too but eventually the pic appeared. Not so today…

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Attempt #2

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I couldn’t get pictures to post either. :(

  • Hound Dog Mom

    My dogs eat 35% – 45% fat (which by the standards of this study would be extremely high in fat – twice the level of the “high fat” test diet) and definitely do not have increased fat deposits. They are all well-muscled with perfect body condition. I believe common sense kind of states increased fat deposition is due to over consumption of calories in general – not so much where the calories are coming from.

  • Shawna

    My brain is in slow mode today so forgive me if I am interpretting this incorrectly.

    So is the study (and you) saying that my dogs, HDM’s dogs and others here should be fat? My toy breed house dogs eat a diet that on average provides 22% fat on a dry matter basis and 43% of the calories from fat.

    Attached is a picture of Cloee. She eats the most food of all the dogs and is 16 years old. (as a comparison – soon to be 7 year old Audrey weighing 9 pounds eats 1.5 ounces of raw plus a half teaspoon of canned twice per day. Cloee is now eating 2.2 ounces of raw and a teapsoon of canned and weighs 4 pounds.) Her digestion, based on what comes out, is just fine too.

    Pic doesn’t seem to want to attach but I attached a pic of her a few days back on BARF World Dog Food Recall 04/03/13 02:45 PM

  • Fred b

    We have fed our herd of Yorkies nothing but Science diet for years. All are healthy, vibrant amd clean without issue. We had one with us over 20 years on SD. Kind of speaks for itself.

  • aimee

    The use of the terms high fat and low fat are relative and were used to distinguish between the two diets. In the test “high fat” diet 45 % of the calories were from fat so on an as fed basis about 20% dietary fat level. I’d consider that to be a “moderate fat” diet for a dog.

    The research was done with growing mice as a model for obesity in children. I haven’t read through it yet but found it interesting as it supports what is seen in the “fat fed” dog model used for studying insulin resistance in people.

    When the percent of calories fed from protein is held constant and calories are shifted from being fed as carb to being fed as fat increased fat deposition occured.

  • Shawna

    Good thing we don’t advocate “high fat” diets except for performance dogs — like sled dogs :)

  • Shawna

    Had some free time after I posted so did some DEEP google digging and found something similar to the above.

    The carb free medium protein diet caused some serious issues including newborn deaths. But the carb free high protein diet faired as well as the carb inclusive diet.

    Nutrition of the dog and cat: Waltham Symposium number 7
    http://books.google.com/books?id=syM9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA243&lpg=PA243&dq=Waltham+canine+no+nutritional+need+carbohydrates&source=bl&ots=DAdHOZaKKT&sig=RGLkl7pqJWa4PDMg3ykHhLFGnek&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SoVlUZytJYew8QTpq4C4Dw&ved=0CEcQ6AEwATgU#v=onepage&q=Waltham%20canine%20no%20nutritional%20need%20carbohydrates&f=false

  • aimee

    Shawna,
    Thanks for posting that report. I hope to find to time to read the original research especially the reference for the statement that “fat deposition was 2.5 times greater when the high fat diet was fed” when comparing a high fat/ low carb diet to a high carb/ low fat diet in regards to fat deposition.

    For myself the difference between facultative carnivore and omnivore is somewhat semantics as there are no clear defined differences between the two. I see the whole herbivore/ omnivore/carnivore classification as a continuum.

    I can’t find that humans have a dietary need for carbohydrate. Do any omnivores actually have a dietary carbohydrate requirement?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    From what I’ve read carbohydrates are not necessary during reproduction as long as protein levels are high.

    “Feeding a carbohydrate free food to pregnant bitches may result in weight loss, decreased food intake, reduced birth weight and neonatal survival of the puppies and may increase the risk of stillbirth. Because more than 50% of the energy for fetal development is supplied by glucose, bitches have a high metabolic requirement for glucose during the last weeks of gestation. Feeding a carbohydrate free food to pregnant bitches increases the risk of hypoglycemia and ketosis during late pregnancy, and lactose concentration in the milk may decrease by 40% during peak lactation. Providing approximately 20% of the energy from carbohydrate is sufficient to prevent the negative side effects of a carbohydrate free diet. If no carbohydrate is given, protein intake must almost be doubled; the food must provide at least 12 to 13 g. digestible protein per kg body weight to the three-fourths power. In a study in which a food that had 50% DM protein was fed, no problems with hypoglycemia or ketosis resulted and puppies were born healthy.” [Small Animal Clinical Nutrition]

  • Shawna

    I agree with you about dogs eating grass. I also think, in our modern world, the antioxidants in veggies and fruits are a valuable addition to their diet. I do question the designation as omnivores though. I view them more as opportunistic or faculative carnivores.. :) I find it hard to consider an animal that doesn’t “require” carbs in the diet to be an omnivore. Just me though.

    From Nestle Purina Research Report (someplace I actually didn’t expect to find this data :)

    “Dietary carbohydrates are not required by
    normal, healthy cats and dogs with two
    possible exceptions. Reproducing bitches may
    need some carbohydrate in order to produce
    and nurse healthy puppies, although even this
    is in question. Hardworking dogs, such as
    hunting dogs and sled dogs, may benefit
    from carbohydrates after exercise to help
    restore muscle glycogen. As these exceptions
    apply to a relatively small percentage of dogs,
    why are carbohydrates such a large proportion
    of many diets?” http://www.purinavets.eu/PDFs/ResearchReport_vol8-issue2.pdf

    Waltham says much the same however I don’t have access to the original material just second hand quotes from vets..

  • Mary

    It is actually true that dogs are omnivores… they’ll eat grass to supplement poor nutrition in their diets…
    I have no idea whether or not Science Diet is good or bad because I am not a veterinarian but really, this site seems to me like an attempt at helping pet owners and dogs and the animosity on here would make me think that a bunch of children are the ones on here.
    My gosh, we all have the same goal; taking care of our furry family members! Stop making this about YOURSELVES.

  • Mary

    They took one specific Science Diet flavor, all of the flavors have slightly different ingredient lists, which is why they look different ^_^

  • Pingback: what do you feed your dog? - Page 2

  • aimee

    Hi Roger,

    I’m sure the AAFCO definition for whole grain is very specific and does not mean corn whose oil and starch have been removed.

    In regards to the quality of corn used in pet food. I talked to Iams a few years back and they said they use food grade #1 corn. On the Purina site it states the corn is food grade 1 and 2. As I recall there are 5 grades of food grade corn vs feed grade.

    i haven’t checked specifically with Hills but I’d bet they are no different.

  • aimee

    Hi Roger,

    The academic field of systematics, the specialty which studies, categorizes and classifys animals does classify dogs as omnivores.

  • Roger Biduk

    Hello Frank,

    It’s unbelievable the stuff you post about your knowledge of ingredients in pet foods. It’s so bad I’m sure you’re posting this stuff as a joke.

    Saying that there’s human-grade corn in any pet foods is ludicrous. The corn in pet foods cost about $.02/lb and used to go to the landfill, now it goes into very low quality pet foods.

    So you’re saying that farmers and co-operatives would sell corn that humans can pay a hundred timed more to pet food companies for .01% of the price… unbelievable…

    The corn in pet foods is so bad that it cannot even be sold for more expensive animal feed.
    Doesn’t matter, corn is found only in junk pet foods.

    Those “whole grains” have had the starch removed for corn starch powder and the oil extracted for corn oil or they are just hulls and other remnants from the milling process.

    Corn used that are truly whole have usually been deemed unfit for human consumption because of mold, contaminants, poor quality or poor handling practices, which is obvious by the fact that most pet food recalls are the result of toxic grain products such as corn or wheat.

    Pet food is one of worlds most synthetic edible products, containing virtually no whole ingredients.

    The pet food industry is an 75 billion dollar a year, unregulated operation that feeds on the garbage
    that otherwise would and should end up in a landfills.

    You will never, ever find corn or corn derivatives in high quality commercially available pet foods, nor will you ever find them in healthy recipes for homemade pet meals.
    Where you’ll find corn, corn meal, corn gluten, corn grits and corn protein are in very affordable, highly processed, very low-quality pet foods such as Hill’s, Purina, Pedigree, Ol’ Roy, Royal Canin, Iams, Eukanuba, etc.

    Many good vets will state that grains such as corn cause most or all of the degenerative diseases that people pay vets thousands of dollars to treat.

    Not even worth my time posting more on this junk.
    If you’re serious about the stuff you post my condolences to your dogs.

    And you’re making a fool of yourself…

  • Roger Biduk

    OMG Frank, you don’t even know the difference between an omnivore (humans) and carnivores (dogs)… I’ll educate you when I have some time.

  • Shawna

    Man that is one NASTY looking ingredient list!!! :( Hills really should be ashamed of themselves in my opinin!!

  • beaglemom

    Only took me a minute to find an example: http://www.hillspet.com/products/ha-canine-canine-adult-healthy-advantage-dry-dry.html. Use of only by-products is a poor excuse for a meat source IMO. Check out many of their prescription foods – also lacking a quality meat source. Finally, in response to another comment you made, double check the ingredient list — it’s brewers RICE, not yeast.

  • Frank

    DOGS ARE OMNIVORES I think I have written that 50 times on this website

  • Frank

    you mean brewer’s YEAST which is high in B vitamins, and pearled barley is high in potassium and other vitamins and is a good source of fiber. HELOOO any brain in there? Making up stuff I guess….

  • Frank

    Hill’s IS all natural! no preservatives or artificial ingredients. It isn’t ORGANIC but neither is Blue Buffalo or Merrick, Organix is , and organic food is worth every penny

  • Frank

    When is there no meat! You don’t need to exaggerate, come on now

  • Frank

    The corn Hill’s buys is good enough for people to eat.

  • realnutrition

    I agree, science diet is great, its sad that instead of talking with a nutritionist someone would rather believe what Joe schmo wrote by learning through internet information. I’ve never seen the diarrhea from hills/science diet that I have from a ton of these all natural diets. One of my dogs got diarrhea from wellness, another from natures recipe. Several of my friends dogs have gotten diarrhea from blue buffalo. All symptoms resolved after switching to science diet. And I did used to be all for all natural and holistic Dog foods.

  • Red

    Seriously, this gave me a “this-is-sad-yet-somehow-funny” kind of chuckle. Give your head a shake, sheeple.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Made in China, no. Garbage, yes. But, in my opinion, Purina isn’t any better.

  • Sue

    Made in china garbage.My dog was always sick and sluggish on science diet.Swiched to purina pro plan and her world changed completely.

  • coconuts

    well either way, why use low grade meat such as euthanized animals when SD is supposedly such a “great company”

  • coconuts

    they do all that funding so that they will look better and the vets will like SD more and will recommend it!

  • coconuts

    because they have brainwashed the vets to think that science diet is awesome when its really just crappy cheap food

  • coconuts

    Except it’s not really a good food. It’s all a sham

  • coconuts

    Well for one thing the food being reviewed here is not SD large breed. It’s SD adult dog. But either way, it’s still crap. Animal fat which is cheap generic fat, brewers rice which is low grade rice, pearled barley which doesn’t have any nutritional value. Plus the minerals aren’t chelated so they would barely be absorbed

  • coconuts

    SURE DOES LOOK THE SAME TO ME..copied this off the Science Diet website!
    Ingredients
    Lamb Meal, Brewers Rice, Brown Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Whole Grain Wheat, Whole Grain Sorghum, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Cracked Pearled Barley, Chicken Liver Flavor, Flaxseed, Lactic Acid, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, Mixed Tocopherols added to retain freshness, Citric Acid added to retain freshness, L-Threonine, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

  • http://www.theholisticchatterbox.com/ Shawna

    I LOVE this vets comments regarding Science Diet. She is a regular contributor on petmd. I’m no longer registered with the site so I couldn’t pull it up but the attached link used to work. This is an old post so it may have been moved.

    “Her post titled ‘What’s Up With People Hating on Some Commercial Dog Foods?’ was sort of a response by Dr. Khuly to a perplexed pet owner asking ‘What’s everybody’s problem with Science Diet?’ http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2010/may/hating_commercial_foods

    The following is some of what Dr. Khuly wrote to the perplexed pet owner…
    “This is, we’re in the midst of a sea change in how we treat our pets now that so many of us consider our pets family members. And that means that what we view as OK to put in our pets has changed too.”

    “When the very same conversation is taking place with respect to higher quality human foods, it’s no wonder foods like Science Diet (foods that have traditionally been viewed as the best of the bunch) no longer cut it compared to those that offer much more in the way of highly digestible animal protein and higher quality carbohydrate sources.”

    “Many of us now want to see more biologically appropriate, recognizable ingredients, a variety of them, more animal protein than veggie protein, and an obvious commitment on the part of the manufacturer to the kinds of ingredients we’d be willing to serve our human families, too.”
    http://truthaboutpetfood2.com/one-vets-stand-on-science-diet-pet-food

    More and more vets and nutritionists are speaking out against the pitfalls of foods like Science Diet…

  • JellyCat

    Katie D, if you believe in a great nutritional science behind Hills, look at their cat formula. It is very similar to dog formula, high in carbs with no high quality animal protein.

    Hills is overpriced food made with very low quality ingredients. There is NO scientific evidence behind this food except the one that demonstrates how cheap on ingredients you can go while still maintaining animal’s life.

  • Pattyvaughn

    The guy that started Hill’s hasn’t owned Hill’s for a LONG time and from an interview I read a while back, I was under the impression that he wasn’t very happy with the direction his former company went in, but that he had no say. I’m not sure but I think he is no longer even alive.
    I worked for a number of vets as a technician for a number of years and the only ones that would have you believe that they knew much of anything about nutrition are the same ones that would have you believe they knew everything. Most would freely tell you that the only nutrition training they had was in how to use “prescription diets”. I’ve had that training, and I’m not impressed.
    Nutrition isn’t rocket science. Most of us are capable of learning what a healthy diet for a human is, even if we don’t actually eat that way, and we don’t have to have a PhD to do it. We even teach children the basic elements of a healthy diet. It is no more complicated to properly feed a dog.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Katie D. – Maybe people wouldn’t be so skeptical of veterinarians’ recommendations of foods like Hill’s if the textbooks used in veterinary school weren’t sponsored by Hill’s and most of the articles within them weren’t written by veterinarians employed by Hill’s. I think that’s a major conflict of interests. And quite frankly, I think it’s rather rude that you would try to undermine this wonderful site that Dr. Mike has created after much research (he is a dentist he’s more than capable of interpreting pet food labels, we’re talking about canine nutrition here not rocket science) and imply that many of us pet parents that have put years and years of time and energy into researching what’s best for our pets don’t know what we’re talking about. I’ve come across a few individuals on this site that are more knowledgeable about canine nutrition than most veterinarians could ever hope to be. If you want to share your experience with Hill’s and how you feel it’s a good food and present sources for why the ingredients in it are appropriate for dogs that’s fine, we’re open to all viewpoints here dfa. However please don’t come here and tell us we “really don’t know what we’re talking about” and that we’re “not qualified” simply because we don’t have a veterinary degree. Do you have a veterinary degree? If not, your opinions aren’t any more qualified than Dr. Mike’s or any of the other posters’ on this site.

  • Katie D.

    Also, I am very sorry for your loss, and the veterinarian that you went to should have given you better advice and worked with you more. But interpreting hundreds upon thousands of dog food labels doesn’t make you an expert in the nutritional requirements of animals. If you had some sort of animal related degree I might fall in more sympathetically with your ideals. What you’re basically doing is undermining the veterinarians out there that are good and trying to keep your furry children at their best. If there is a problem, bring it up to your vet. If your vet doesn’t listen, find a new vet that will. But you also have to draw the line that a vet that is willing to discuss these things with you is the one you want. If you have questions, ask them. Just remember (like a DOCTOR) they went to school specifically for animal health and care. Not all vets are created equal, so find one that you’re comfortable having discussions with. COMMUNICATION is key just like everything else in life.

  • Katie D.

    That’s funny since all I’ve fed my dog’s is science diet and the
    prescription diets… and they all lived well past their “age limit” and
    I’m talking 20+ years for medium and large sized dogs with no crazy health complications. And by-products
    aren’t all that bad for dogs since they can digest them… what the real
    problem is the higher protein foods that cause nutritional deficiencies
    and growth problems (like calcium for large breed puppies) and people
    feeding their dogs bones that chip off and cause intestine blockages/ perforations.
    Not to mention that dogs aren’t “true” carnivores so they don’t need all
    the protein that some brands brag about (FYI cats are true carnivores). Also Hills was started by
    veterinary nutritionists, so I don’t think you really know what you’re
    talking about or even qualified. Not every dog will do great on Hills, I’m not claiming so, but I’ll stick with what I know has worked for me in the past. Different things will work better for different animals, what people need to do is pay attention to what happens when their dogs eat any kind of food. If it works, and is working there is no reason to switch the food and cause more problems. Just saying.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    “Why do more veterinarians feed their own dogs Science Diet and recommend it more than any other food if it is so bad?”

    Hey Scott check out the back cover of a veterinary nutrition textbook sometime, it might answer your question. Let’s just say their education is a little biased.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I spent a lot of years working for vets and getting training on selling product from Science Diet. The vets that feed SD do it because they can get it cheap and because they get next to no education in nutrition except what SD and Purina provide them with, and if you don’t think that is slanted, you’ve got another think coming.
    Some people call dogs omnivores with a carnivorous bias, some call them facultative carnivores, either way dogs need a diet rich in high quality meat, they don’t require carbs at all. There are many subtle issues in canine nutrition, quality protein sources aren’t one of them.

  • JellyCat

    Hi Michael,
    It is true that some people smoke, drink and live into 90′s; however their quality of life at later years are not great. There are exceptions to this, but they are very few. Also, most people absolutely do not live into 90′s while smoking, drinking and eating like crap.

    I didn’t see anyone argue here that quality food gives you guarantee of long and healthy life. However, feeding substandard diet will definitely affect your pet’s health in a negative way.

    The reality check for Science Diet is that it’s made with low quality ingredients and is also overpriced. You can verify this by reading ingredient list and looking at the price.
    Like I said, while this food is sufficiently balanced to maintain life, it is not designed to promote health. There are no miracle dogs for which a high carb food will be good and healthy nutrition.

  • Scott Spray

    You’re wrong on too many counts to mention Roger. First of all the basics, dogs are omnivores, not carnivores. Since you don’t even understand that, don’t expect you to understand more subtle issues with dog food. Why do more veterinarians feed their own dogs Science Diet and recommend it more than any other food if it is so bad?

  • http://www.dominant-domains.com/ Michael

    That is not what i’m saying at all nutrition is important, but just because you feed your dog a certain food does not mean your beloved pet is guaranteed a long or short lifespan. There are a lot more factors involved many of which are out of our control. Look at people, some people eat like crap, smoke, and drink and live well into their 90′s others eat healthy and exercise and drop dead at 30! By feeding higher quality food you are improving their chances of a longer life but not by any means guaranteeing and as for people saying a quality food like science diet is crap they need a reality check. I switched to science diet last year and my dogs are doing great on it, thats not to say all dogs will because each dogs is different!

  • JellyCat

    Hi Michael, do you suggest that nutrition and lifestyle doesn’t matter and everything is simply in our genes?

    Monitoring your dog’s health is not equal to insuring good health. When you’ll notice that there is a problem with urine sample and blood work it’s too late as this will indicate a health problem. This is especially true if you only do these tests once a year. Prevention of a disease, not treatment, is of utmost importance. Healthy lifestyle is a key to prevention, and healthy, balanced and non-toxic diet is an integral part of it.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Wow! Actually I currently have 3 dogs, but have personally owned over 20. I also trained dogs for our local PD, so I’ve had many, many more living with me. I also was a Certified Veterinary Technician. I’ve worked with about 25 vets and many are personal friends of mine. My current vet sends me Christmas baskets because of how much money I spend in their office each year. Two of my 3 dogs work, the 3rd is 11. And all that has nothing to do with food quality.
    Good vets will admit how little training they receive on nutrition and that almost every bit of it comes from Hill’s and Purina directly, so their knowlege is extremely slanted towards those companies and their products. I’ve been to many of their seminars over the years and they aren’t about canine nutrition so much as how to properly use their diets.
    By the way, todays dog foods are in many cases worse than the ones our parents fed because Hill’s and Purina have done tons of research to figure out how cheap they can make food and still have some level of health.

  • http://www.dominant-domains.com/ Michael

    They have been on Innova, Evo tow very highly rated food as well as others. Our dogs are our children we have a veterinarian in our family and they get regular blood work, urine, and stool tests to verify their condition. What medical evidence do you have to prove the other foods are better or that science diet is worse. In fact what medical training do you have? How many dogs do you own and have you owned? Lets see your vet records to see if you are properly monitoring your dogs health. How often do you exercise your dogs? My point is simply this I agree that there are some crappy foods out there however my parents fed our dogs brands like gravy train and kibbles and bit and they were healthy and lived their full life span. I personally feed my dogs better food than my parents did and believe there is less chance of illness because of it, however, everything is in the dogs genetic make-up and no one can control nature (well maybe a little)!

  • Pattyvaughn

    Imagine how much better your dogs could be on an even better food.

  • http://www.dominant-domains.com/ Michael

    I’m not an expert but I recently switched from Eukanuba to Science Diet after a visit with my veterinarian who is also a family member. Since switching all three of my dogs have a nicer coat and the one whose blood work had been off a bit in previous tests (note that I said tests) is since the change spot on. She has also lost weight and is more energetic!

  • Tom

    Yeah, the reason is Hill’s pays them to…

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    You do realize that kibble is baked, right? And once meat, in this case chicken, is baked the moisture is removed… thus making the weight of the meat (chicken) much lower. Unlike the rice, wheat, barley, sorgham, and corn that follows chicken in the list of ingredients.

    So you’re “meat is the first ingredient” food is actually fooling you. Just more good marketing from Hill’s, without actually making a good product to go with it.

  • labowner

    Agreed. I feed my 95 pound lab Hills Science Diet Large Breed. We specifically picked it because the first ingredients were meat. What is listed on this page is actually not the same thing that is listed on the bag in my garage.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Royce,

    Hill’s only recently announced and began shipping their new recipes as of December 2012. Unfortunately, the company just updated its website this past week to reflect these new formulations.

    I also posted an announcement about this event here on our website the day the news became “official”.

    As Patty said, there are more than 800 reviews here representing over 3,200 individual products. We are doing our best to update these reviews as soon as possible.

    Thanks for your patience.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Dr Mike updates 3000+ reviews. This takes time. At this point it takes about 18 months. The last update on this one was 11/21//2011 and it is due in just a few months. That it nothing like 2 years. He gets to them faster if someone brings to his attention that there has been a significant change. He has written a recent article about the changes coming to Hills, maybe you should look a little further.

  • Royce

    You should update your information on a regular basis to be creditable. It is now 2013, two years is a long time to be stagnant with information.

  • http://www.bestcatanddognutrition.com/ Roger Biduk

    Hello Hound Dog Mom,

    Great sarcasm… at least I hope it’s sarcasm…!

  • http://www.bestcatanddognutrition.com/ Roger Biduk

    Hello ValerieNoyes,
    Very well put, the pet industry is the most corrupt with the “big three” – pet foods companies, unethical vets and big pharma leading the way.
    Bon chance, Roger Biduk

  • http://www.bestcatanddognutrition.com/ Roger Biduk

    Their “research” is a big joke with ingredients containing by-products, corn, grains and in many cases NO MEAT… dogs don’t stand a chance on this junk.
    Bon chance, Roger Biduk

  • http://www.bestcatanddognutrition.com/ Roger Biduk

    Hello Loadedmaxx05,
    “I stand behind science diet 100%” is something I’ve never seen. This is one of the worst pet foods and it’s just a matter of time before you see some very, very bad results. The first five products are brutal and how this crap gets even one star is beyond me.

    Your dog is a carnivore and this “food” contains NO MEAT…!
    Bon chance, Roger Bidul

  • Sapphire-Light

     They are finally updating the main Hill’s website wit their new formulas and they include the ingredients

  • ValerieNoyes

    Petdoctor3, from whom did you receive your “extensive training in nutrition”?  Hill’s?

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    PetDoctor3,

    Our commenting policy clearly states:

    In the interest of fairness, those who publicly claim to be veterinary professionals are kindly asked to post using their real names.

    .

    Please identify yourself using your full professional name and present your arguments with courtesy and respect towards others.

    Otherwise, you may not post here on this forum.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Why is Hill’s changing their scientifically-formulated-with-lots-of-research foods?  Do they not stand behind their research?

  • Storm’s Mom

    You have a doctorate and yet you cannot be bothered to capitalize your sentences or correct your spelling mistakes? Your writing honestly makes you seem like a teenager not a highly intelligent/intellectual adult.