Dr. Tim’s Dog Food (Dry)

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Rating: ★★★★★

Dr. Tim’s dog food receives the Advisor’s top rating of 5 stars.

The Dr. Tim’s product line includes four dry dog foods, two claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for adult maintenance and two for all life stages.

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

Dr. Tim’s Pursuit Active Dog was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Dr Tim's Pursuit

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 33% | Fat = 22% | Carbs = 37%

Ingredients: Chicken meal, brown rice flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), oat flour, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), dried whole eggs, rice bran, menhaden fish oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), ocean herring meal, flax seed meal, catfish meal, chicken liver meal, dried porcine plasma protein, salmon meal, lecithin, potassium chloride, salt, canola oil, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried chicory root, calcium carbonate, Yucca schidigera extract, organic kelp meal, dried psyllium seed husk, choline chloride, dl-methionine, l-lysine, algae fat product (a source of DHA), l-ascorbyl-2 polyphosphate (stabilized ascorbic acid), vitamin E supplement, l-carnitine, zinc sulfate, zinc proteinate, taurine, beta carotene, ferrous sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), manganese sulfate, inositol, niacin supplement, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, zinc oxide, biotin, thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), copper proteinate, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), calcium pantothenate, potassium iodide (source of iodine), manganous oxide, vitamin B12 supplement, sodium selenite, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, rosemary extract

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 3.3%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis30%20%NA
Dry Matter Basis33%22%37%
Calorie Weighted Basis27%44%30%

The first ingredient in this dog food is chicken meal. Chicken meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh chicken.

The second ingredient is rice flour. Rice flour is made from either white or brown rice and is considered a gluten-free substitute for wheat flour.

The third ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is obtained from rendering chicken, a process similar to making soup in which the fat itself is skimmed from the surface of the liquid.

Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid, an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing, chicken fat is actually a quality ingredient.

The fourth ingredient is oat flour. Since oat flour is nothing more than finely ground oats, it provides about the same gluten-free nutritional content as raw oats.

The fifth ingredient includes beet pulp. Beet pulp is a controversial ingredient, a high fiber by-product of sugar beet processing.

Some denounce beet pulp as an inexpensive filler while others cite its outstanding intestinal health and blood sugar benefits.

We only call your attention here to the controversy and believe the inclusion of beet pulp in reasonable amounts in most dog foods is entirely acceptable.

The sixth ingredient is whole eggs. Eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

The seventh ingredient is rice bran, a healthy by-product of milling whole grain rice. The bran is the fiber-rich outer layer of the grain containing starch, protein, fat as well as vitamins and minerals.

The eighth ingredient is menhaden oil. Menhaden are small ocean fish related to herring. Their oil is naturally rich in the prized EPA and DHA type of omega-3 fatty acids, two high quality fats boasting the highest bio-availability to both dogs and humans.

What’s more, in their mid-depth habitat, menhaden are not exposed to mercury contamination as is typical with deeper water species.

The ninth ingredient is herring meal, another protein-rich meat concentrate.

Fish meal is typically obtained from the “clean, dried, ground tissue of undecomposed whole fish and fish cuttings” of commercial fish operations.1

We are pleased to note that, unlike many fish meals, this particular item appears2 to be ethoxyquin-free.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With five notable exceptions

First, we find pork plasma. Plasma is what remains of blood after the blood cells themselves have been removed. Plasma can be considered a nutritious addition.

Next, we note the inclusion of canola oil. Many applaud canola for its favorable omega-3 content while a vocal minority condemn it as an unhealthy fat.

Much of the objection regarding canola oil appears to be related to the use of genetically modified rapeseed as its raw material source.

Current thinking (ours included) finds the negative stories about canola oil more the stuff of urban legend than actual science.3

In any case, plant-based oils like canola are less biologically available to a dog than fish oil as a source of quality omega-3 fats.

Then, we find chicory root which is rich in inulin, a starch-like compound made up of repeating units of carbohydrates and found in certain roots and tubers.

Not only is inulin a natural source of soluble dietary fiber, it’s also a prebiotic used to promote the growth of healthy bacteria in a dog’s digestive tract.

Next, we note the inclusion of dried fermentation products in this recipe. Fermentation products are typically added to provide enzymes to aid the animal with digestion.

And lastly, this food also contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Dr. Tim’s Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Dr. Tim’s looks like an above-average dry dog food.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 33%, a fat level of 22% and estimated carbohydrates of about 37%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 34% and a mean fat level of 22%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 36% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 64%.

Above-average protein. Above-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

Free of any plant-based protein boosters, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a significant amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Dr. Tim’s Dog Food is a meat-based kibble using a significant amount of chicken meal as its main source of animal protein, thus earning the brand 5 stars.

Highly recommended.

Special Alert

Rice ingredients can sometimes contain arsenic. Until the US FDA establishes safe upper levels for arsenic content, pet owners may wish to limit the total amount of rice fed in a dog's daily diet.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

08/09/2010 Original review
12/10/2010 Review updated (menadione removed)
09/10/2012 Review updated
01/31/2012 Review updated
01/31/2013 Last Update

  1. Association of American Feed Control Officials
  2. Dr. Tim’s website claim of “no artificial preservatives are used in our products”, 8/9/2010
  3. Mikkelson, B and DP, Oil of Ole, Urban Legends Reference Pages (2005)
  • Tobias C

    I wonder why Kinesis ALS is rated 4.5 while Fromm Puppy Gold is 4 stars. Kinesis has 26/16 while Gold has 27/18. Im still considering Kinesis though as it’s cheaper…

  • Germansheppups

    I decided to go ahead and give this a try for my younger GSD. She is doing great – coat looks beautiful and she is maintaining weight nicely. I’m planning to start our other GSD on the grain free variety shortly.

  • InkedMarie

    I feed pre made raw for one meal, Pursuit for the other. I’d change just to make sure she can eat the other (never know if a food will be unavailable at any time, good to know what they can eat!)

  • monkey

    I googled for similar products and came across Real Meat Company. The ingredients look identical. A local pet food store carrys it and i know she is really picky about the products she puts on her shelves.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Nope!  But if you find out will you post it??

  • monkey

    Sandy, do you know who makes the food for Only Natural Pet?

  • sandy

    Is dehydrated/freeze dried one of your choices?  There’s several of those to choose from like Only Natural Pet MaxMeat and Ziwipeak.  Currently I’m using some Vital Essentials freeze dried. Since it’s rotational the cost isn’t that much in the end.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    BBB,

    Your mention of specific products and topics along with your characteristically rude behavior and posting style fits the same pattern exhibited by a previous visitor known for using fictitious identities to deceptively mislead and provoke others.

    In addition, your use of multiple identities as evidenced by your your previous comment posted on 12/27/2012 at 3:30 PM using the moniker “Red” from the same computer IP address is a violation of Our Commenting Policy.

    This rule clearly states:

    “…the use of multiple identities or other deceptive tactics designed to mislead readers are strictly forbidden.”

    Until I’m genuinely convinced you are a legitimate individual working with credible objectives, your recent comments here have been temporarily removed.

  • Pattyvaughn

    If you are not a vet refusing to identify yourself, then maybe you should talk to one.  Dr. Tim will do.  I have the utmost respect for him and I don’t think he’ll lie to you.  Ask him how much nutrition training the average vet receives, and who supplies it.  You’re not pushing Purina or Science Diet, but I’m sure you are aware that most vets do, because Purina and Science Diet are who provided them with what little nutrition training they have.  Do you seriously think what the average vet knows about nutrition is the end all and be all of knowlege.  It’s not rocket science and I’m conversant with that too.

  • BBB

    Healthier for the gut? Please state the source of that comment. There are no missing nutrients in a well made dog food. Dr. Tim’s formulas have 6 or 7 sources of concentrated protein already and much more nutrition than the average dog requires.

    I am curious why you and Hound Dog Mom offer advice on every subject. Are you both board certified clinical nutritionsists? Vets? What are your qualifications?  I think it is a fair question given the way you profess and offer advice.

  • BBB

    Evo has dangerous levels of ASH, particulary phosphorous.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I like that!!

  • Hound Dog Mom

     Or…healthy gut healthy mutt ;)

  • Hound Dog Mom

    BBB – What is the “risk” of feeding EVO?

  • Pattyvaughn

    Many of us believe that there is no perfect food.  They are all missing or deficient or whatever, in some things.  We rotate foods to make sure our dogs are getting a wider range of nutrients.  Also, it is healthier for the gut to rotate foods.  The microflora of the gut will be much more varied on a varied diet, and a large percentage of the immune response takes place in the gut.  Healthy gut, healthy dog.

  • BBB

    Why switch if she is doing well? And why one meal? I don’t understand.

  • BBB

    Dr. Tim’s is easily one of the best foods on the market. The protein content ranges from about 85% – 95% meat protein depending on the formula and Momentum has about the same carbohydrate level as Evo, without the risk. He markets the average among the formulas at 87% I believe. The Pursuit formula has to be a little over 90%. The other thing is that real competitive teams use this food line.

    IMO Pursuit is probably the best and most flexible food on the market. 

  • InkedMarie

    What? Far as I know, we can talk about it, just not on the two Brothers threads. Or are you just being a smart aleck and I’m numb, as usual??!!

  • ohnoesaz

    Thanks for the replys. I think I will give Dr Tim’s a shot, the dogs want a little more variety. Also, my mistake on mentioning Brothers Complete, I forgot that’s not allowed on this site!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Hi ohnoesaz,

    I too have been in contact with Dr. Tim.  He’s very responsive and helpful.  I first got in contact with him through their website.  Their contact page has his direct email on it:  http://drtims.com/contact/.  

    Also, I asked Dr. Tim about the white potato and he responded with, “The fact it does contain potato you obviously know but I use 3 starch sources so we don’t too much of any one starch.  I find with grain frees a variety of these non traditional carb sources works better than all of one type.”  

    Dr. Tim and I were specifically discussing the Grain Free Kinesis variety.  I’m running to work, but looked quickly at the Dr. Tim’s website and believe these are the GF Kinesis starches: dried white potatoes, dried field peas, dried beet pulp (sugar removed).
      

  • InkedMarie

    My brittany can eat anything, she’s been on Pursuit for a month or so, for one meal, doing very well. I will probably try the grainfree Kinesis next and I agree with HDM, they have excellent customer service (Dr Tim himself returned my phone call!)

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Dr. Tim’s makes a grain-free version of the Kinesis formula – 32% protein, 18% fat. If I recall correctly, at one time someone posted the percent of protein from animal sources in Dr. Tim’s and I want to say it was like 94 or 95%? I could be mistake though – but if that’s accurate I wouldn’t be concerned with the food. Just call or email the company and ask – they have excellent customer service.

  • ohnoesaz

    So the DFA’s like Dr Tim’s? It seems choices are either grain heavy or potato heavy.

    I’ve been rotating daily with Brothers and DNA and want to add a third food. People seem happy with this but I’m reluctant.

  • timhunt

    This looks to be a mistake on Petflow’s site as we have not changed our formulas.  Thank you for your kind words as we have worked hard to create foods that actually benefit the dog, not the consumer demographic that is marketed.

  • GRUB

    I was at petflow site to re-order Dr.Tim’s food, and noticed ingredient changes. There is no more salmon meal, blood plasma,and chicken liver. I am wondering why. Is it better for the dog’s, or to hard to get a hold of good quality product to put in the food. I am some what disappointed. It is so hard these day’s to tell people about excellent food’s you feed as I have done with Dr. Tim’s foods. I thought it was the best food I ever fed. I hope it still is. I just hope I mean really hope the quality is still outstanding and not just another hook’em and then change to lesser quality feed. This food was(hope still is) leaps and bounds better than any other food out there. I know because of the dog’s health on it.

  • Red

    Thanks Doc for being on this forum/thread. I have to say your food gives the best and most consistent results of any I have used. Bravo!!

  • timhunt

    Lots of action happening here.  Hard to follow all the different websites.

    Q #1.  Pursuit numbers did change slightly as I redid the labs so I want to be accurate.  One thing to always remember is that the kibble size influences your kcals per cup.  Kibble of Momentum is smaller than Pursuit, thus more weight is in one cup, etc.

    Q#2  Meat proteins are what we are all about.  Of the protein in Momentum 94% are animal derived.  Pursuit is 90% animal derived.  The Kinesis grain free is 84% animal derived.

    Q#3 natural flavoring wording should be chicken liver.  Somewhere this mistake slipped through and I will fix it.  I don’t like labeling that is not specific.  

    Q#4 Both foods will put weight on a dog.  Can’t do it overnight so go easy with either.  Remember, we still want to be able to feel the ribs.

    Q#5 You can always email me at drtim@drtims:disqus .com

  • stephen

    Anyone notice Pursuit now has 450 kcal ME/cup (115g)
    (instead of what it use to be 481 kcal ME/cup), higher ash rating now 6.5 (use
    to be 5.8) and lower Omega 6 – 3.5 now used to be 4? I am on my second 44 bag
    of pursuit and this bag has different ratios. I guess they sample their food
    once in a while and the quality changes, therefore they have to change their guaranteed
    analysis. You guys thoughts about the changes?

  • Pattyvaughn

    I must have “Too Much Time on My Hands”

  • Melissaandcrew

     Sorry, just saw this-

    I am feeding Maya(dobergal) the Stress and Maintenance “classic” Off the store shelf, its $77 for a 40lb box-She does great on it. I have used it for several others that need to gain weight, and have used the same Stress and Maintance formula that HDM used, but the fat content was a bit higher and she was a tad “loose”. She had a few loose stool issues, but that is Maya-she just “does”.  Right now, she gets fed(twice daily) 1/4 canned Abady Vitality A, 1/3 cup Acana Lamb/Okanagan Apple, and 5 oz of the granular. I mix a touch of warm water and stir it up. The dry is simply to give her some “crunch” and help keep the granular from sticking so much to the bowl. Next month I may try a box of the “bottom line” as a topper for the fat sensitive ones. Its the only granular variety they have that the schnauzers could eat.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Why were you the first person to respond to my post. ; )

  • Pattyvaughn

    Why did the song “Too Much Time on My Hands” comme to mind;-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Hey guys,

    I was just putzing around on Petflow.com and came across this: http://www.petflow.com/product/dr–tim-s/dr–tim-s-kinesis-grain-free-formula-dry-dog-food. It’s a 5 pound bag of Dr. Tim’s Grain Free Kinesis for $4.39! It’s one per household, but if you were placing an order anyway, grab one. Shipping is free on purchases over $49. They also had a Halo trial size and an Evanger trial size (both grain free kibble varieties). Just type in “trials” in the search bar.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Sounds good so far! I’ll be curious to hear how things progress. Keep us posted!

  • InkedMarie

    No, I went with Pursuit. I spoke with Dr Tim on the phone and he said to start with the Pursuit, that it should help her to gain a couple pounds. So far, so good but we’ve only been adding it in for a few days (it just arrived on Monday or Tuesday). The Pursuit is grain inclusive, which I thought I’d try. While i know dogs don’t need grains, I don’t have any trouble feeding a grain inclusive food. I just want the food to be meat based, not grain or plant based. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Hey Marie, I’m curious about your Dr. Tim’s switch. You picked Momentum, right? How’s it going so far. I’m also interested in this food for my rotation, but was looking at the grain free Kinesis for my two.

  • doggonefedup

    Patty,
    just now saw your post. you be be an email right now.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Doggone, can you send me that email too, well, maybe not that exact one.  You’ve really got my curiousity up about Abady.  Their website really does not have enough info.

  • doggonefedup

    Marie,
     just sent you an email. I do use the granulated with canned and raw. I think Melissa also uses the granulated with canned.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    They do have kibble as well, but I’d go with the granular. I fed as is, you could mix with water but it’d probably stick to the bowl. I think doggone mixes with canned.

  • InkedMarie

    Ok, so this is the granular…do you feed it as is or mix it with water such as THK? Melissa, if you’re reading, what are you feeding?

  • InkedMarie

    oh, it’s not kibble? I thought I saw kibble on doggiefood.com, now I have to look again.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I think you’ll like it. I was originally a little turned off by the by-products and rice, but after talking to them and actually trying the product I changed my mind. Probably not something I’d feed day in and day out, but I’d have no issues using it in a rotation.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Well seeing as Momentum is 35% protein and 25% fat with a meat meal as the 1st and 4th ingredient and Pursuit is 30% protein and 20% fat with only 1 meat meal in the top 5 ingredients, I’d assume Momentum contains more meat.

  • Dave’s Hounds

     I plan to try Abady myself – to rotate with my canned Ziwipeak. The ingredients look great

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Here’s what it looks like and the ingredients and general analysis.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Marie –

    No I’m not feeding Abady – my dogs are on all raw right now. I had heard of Abady quite a few times (mostly people that did feed it that raved over it) over the years, checked out their website, ingredients, etc. and it just didn’t look like anything I was interested in feeding my dogs. After hearing all the good thinks doggone had to say about it, a month or so back I decided to order a box and try it out. Melissa tried it as well. I also called the company and questioned them about their ingredients – quality and why some were included in the food. I have to say I was pleasantly surprised – I didn’t think I’d like it and I didn’t even want to like it, but I did. I think from now on when traveling or leaving my dogs with someone I may get Abady over THK (what I normally feed when the circumstances don’t allow for raw). I know Melissa decided to continue feeding it (I believe she has one of her dobies on it?). I ordered the Maintenance and Stress Formula which is $169.99 for a 48 lb. box on doggiefood.com. It does seem expensive but when you take into consideration 1 C. of Abady has almost 800 kcal. while most kibbles have around 400 kcal. per cup, the cost is pretty similar to a higher quality kibble. It’s granular, not kibble – kind of the consistency of brown sugar. Neat stuff. If I ever couldn’t afford raw anymore, I’d definitely use Abady as a food in my rotation.

  • InkedMarie

    Stupid question here. If Pursuit is “meat based” with a significant amount of meat, would I assume the Momentum is the same? I don’t know how to figure that out.

  • debbiepg

    Forgot to add, Pursuit doesn’t have “natural flavor” listed.

  • debbiepg

    On Dr Tim’s site, Momemtum has “natural flavor” in the ingredients list.

  • InkedMarie

    I’m not looking for bottom of the barrel, just something more budget friendly than what Brothers is. Are you feeding this too?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I was a little sketched out by Abady’s website as well, but if you call I promise you’ll feel much better about the food. I’m pretty sure I’d be more expensive to feed than the Dr. Tim’s though.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    If she needs to gain weight I’d go with Momentum – it has almost 588 kcal. per cup, the Pursuit only has 450.

  • InkedMarie

    I do agree about the website, not much information. I need to see if I can find your old emails to me. Thanks!

  • InkedMarie

    Ginger could stand to gain a couple pounds which is one reason I am leaning to the Pursuit

  • doggonefedup

    Hi Marie,
    You may want to look into Abady dog foods. I have recommended it to several other people right here on DFA and they seem to be having some very positive results. I think it is the perfect compliment to Brothers too. If I’m not mistaken Melissa as in Melissaandcrew was so happy with the results she was seeing she decided to open a kennel account and gets her food directly from the factory. Their website is not very impressive but you can call them directly at (1-877-991-1139) {1 (877) 99Abady} I think you will be pleasently surprised. I just don’t think you’ll get 80 free though ;0}

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Marie –

    Dr. Tim’s has EXCELLENT customer service. When I emailed them I got an email back from Dr. Tim in about 5 minutes – the email was sent later in the evening too. Dr. Tim also posts occasionally so if you have any questions I’m sure he’d answer them. As far as grain-inclusive foods go I think the momentum looks great, pursuit looks good too. Petflow has good prices on it and free shipping.

  • InkedMarie

    I’ve been doing some research on foods for one of my dogs. Long story short, I will keep one of mine on Darwins/Brothers but due to needing to save where I can, I’m looking for something else for Ginger. She has no issues except excessive pooping but that is a problem with every food she’s been on, except for Brothers. Anyway, Pursuit seems to be reviewed favorably above, I like that its meat based and on another forum I’m on, the food is used with good results by a few people. I admit, I do like that it comes in four sizes as well.

  • Drtim

    Correct, we do not have citric acid on any of our formulas.

  • monkey

    Wait, so is there citric acid in any of your formulas?

  • Toxed2loss

    You’re very welcome, and right back at you! ;-)

    I agree with you about the lower frequency of vaccines. Dr.s Shultz, Dodds & Becker all strongly advocate titering, and one vaccine at a time. I had the privilege to share a conversation with an immunologist at Merck last spring concerning rabies Vacs, and she was also pleased to be able to share an open (not hostile) discussion. Less toxic vaccines are in the pipeline, but she doesn’t expect them to hit the market for about 10 years. She also concurred that if immunity was not conferred with the first vaccination, it wouldn’t ever be conferred. She is trying to work to improve the system, from with in the system. I deeply respect those kinds of people. I think it must be very frustrating to be in their position… Taking the heat from both sides.

    Thank you for your empathy. :-) The return on the effort it takes to avoid toxins is phenomenal and certainly makes it all worth while.

  • Drtim

    I hope you can stay away from the substances that make you ill.  I imagine it must be no fun.

    Vaccines have made a huge difference overall as I do remember distemper and parvo virus outbreaks and it was terrible.  They are needed, but maybe a much lower frequency than when they were initially brought into the medical field for the disease they were targeted for.

    Thank you for your civil responses and discourse.  It is refreshing.

  • Toxed2loss

    Thanks for the clarification, Drtim! :-) Does your current label reflect that?

    While I agree that organic chemistry CAN be done cleanly, my personal, practical experience has shown me that in the real world, its not. I’ve yet to encounter a product with “citric acid” on the label that did not cause me violent MSG reactions. In fact, that is what lead me to the research showing citric acid, and other by-products of high glutamate containing substances, do indeed contain sufficient free glutamate (and aspartate) to elicit an adverse reaction in sensitive individuals.

    Since dogs can’t tell us what they specifically feel, and with the prevalence of adverse reactions from vaccines and pesticides, its pretty safe to assume that most pets have some sensitivity to neurotoxic food additives. ~ As the sensitivity comes along with a compromised immune system, and the whole premise behind vaccinating, is to over stimulate the immune system into a hyper-responsive state. JMHO

  • Drtim

    I have to apologize for my mistake here as we actually use a product that is just made up of mixed tocopherols with no citric acid in it.  We did use one with citric acid about a year ago but did change to the non citric acid inclusive preservative. I looked at the incorrect spec sheet.

    So, no MSG in our product that I am aware of.  The citric acid products from the companies that do sell it guarrantee a 99.99% purity rate as a rule as it would make no sense to have the other products included.  Organic chemistry can be done cleanly with reputable companies, IMO.

  • Toxed2loss

    Hi Drtim,
    I’m very impressed. :-) Now, ask him if “there is any “free glutamic acid” or “free Aspartic acid” present, and at what levels.”

    You see, glutamate and aspartate are present in carbs and proteins as L-glutamate, and L-aspartate. They’re bound to an amino acid that makes them non toxic. When people consume foods with L-glutamate/L-aspartate the digestive system can only dissolve a very minute number of those bonds, providing just a trace amount of D-glutamate/D-aspartate to the body. Just the amount that it needs. You know, like selenium. Too little, the body can’t function, too much its toxic.

    D-glutamate, aka free glutamic acid is MSG. D-aspartate is free Aspartic acid. Both are excitotoxins. They stimulate neural function – in the correct amount. Too much they cause the cells to fire so rapidly they burn out and die… Like LSD.

    Here’s the problem… The processing of the base materials (most often GMO corn) used to make citric acid, unbinds vastly more of the amino acid bonds. It renders the final product extremely high (on our bodies scale of need) in MSG & Aspartic acid by process.

    Manufacturers know this. MSG is big business. The Glutamate Manufactures Association/Coalition (can’t remember their actual title) counsels manufacturers to use exactly the phrase your manufacturer told you, in response to the question, “is there any MSG in xxx?”

    Did you notice he said there was no ADDED MSG? That is entirely different than is there ANY MSG.

    There are 3 ways to derive MSG & free Aspartic acid: long, hot cooking times, hydrolysis, enzymolisis. (O.k. 4, but I don’t run into this one vey often anymore – hydrochloric acid bath.) So anything that is produced using these methods has excessive freed glutamate/aspartate. That’s why cooking times and temps are so important in Shawna’s and my analysis of kibbles. That’s why we don’t like to see “broth” or Natural flavors” on the label: MSG/free Aspartic acid by process.

  • Dog Food Ninja

     Drtim, I think you miss the point… toxie is not saying they ADD msg to citric acid, but rather, the process of making citric acid renders glutamic acid free.  Which means it contains a measurable level of free glutamic acid.  Why don’t you ask them how much free glutamic acid it contains?  Because, of coarse they are going to tell you they didn’t ADD msg.  And they didn’t.  They are hiding the facts behind semantics.  I’ve seen soups lately that say “no MSG added!!*” … “*except for the small about of free glutamate found in yeast.”  Of course, that last part is in tiny print on the back of the can… so all the average consumer sees is “no MSG added!”.     

  • Drtim

    I talked with the President of the company that supplies our preservative and no msg has been added to the mix of citric acid that is used.

  • Toxed2loss

    Hi Tim,
    While citric acid is found in highest concentrations in citrus foods, its too expensive to manufacture that way. They use glucose, either from corn, potato starch or black mold (aspergillis niger). The processing can render it extremely high in free glutamic and Aspartic acid, both excitatory neuro toxins. Those substances can cause bloat and some other pretty nasty symptoms. Here’s some links:
    http://www.raysahelian.com/citric.html
    http://foodreference.about.com/od/Food-Additives/a/What-Is-Citric-Acid.htm
    http://truthinlabeling.com/SourcesBrochure.pdf. Pg 2

    People with sensitivities or who own pets with compromised immune systems can’t afford to risk exposure,so must assume citric acid is a source of neurotoxins. If yours is tested to have no free glutamic or aprtic acids, then post that on your site!

  • HerdingDogRescuer

    I read it and I wrote to Dr Tim and he checked with his suppliers and stated that his supply has been tested and is clean.—BUT it would be good to have the controversy addressed somewhat in the report above.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Read the article about arsnic in rice, make sure you read the comments too, and you’ll understand why it’s controversial and not just BAD.  You will have to make up your own mind how you feel about it.

  • HerdingDogRescuer

    I note that you have Brown Rice listed as a controversial ingredient. But you explanation of the ingredient just says Rice flour and does not state why it is controversial. Could you please clarify?

  • Pattyvaughn

    It’s been years since I worked in a vets office, but that was what we saw with bloat too.  The dogs were on grain heavy foods.  In one case, the dog had gotten into the pantry and eaten what it could find, bread, pasta,and rice.

  • timhunt

    Here are a few thoughts on the previous messages, probably will miss a few things but let me know if I did.

    Bloat cases;  I have seen more of these over 24 years due to the dog getting into pasta dishes at picnics than food, about 60/40.  That means to me a starch is fermenting causing the gas to occur in the stomach.  The reason for the twist is like the chicken or the egg, IMO.  A dog can bloat with out a twist of the stomach, but a twist of the stomach can lead to bloat.

    Citric acid is an urban legend with no credence, IMO.  Here is a link to a good article on that subject;  http://www.petfoodindustry.com/Default.aspx?pageid=5306&id=5536&terms=citric+acid

    Antioxidants;  there are many out there.  I like using astaxantin types or resveratrol.  I look at the magnitude of stregth as compared to vitamin E as a criteria or measure.  Why I include salmon meal in our foods(high in asta) or why I drink wine(high is resveratrol). Tim Hunt

  • Pattyvaughn

    It’s excellent in shrimp dishes, and added to marinades.

  • EvesHumanMom

    It’s in curry powder and mustard and sometimes pickle relish.  You can use it to make fake saffron rice.  It’s what makes Campbell’s chicken noodle soup yellow.  I always used to wonder how come my grandma’s chicken soup was never that color.  I add extra to curry and sneak some into stews.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I love to cook with it.  Its even good in chicken soup. 

  • Hound Dog Mom

    You can cook with it. There are many recipes that include turmeric, it’s especially common in middle eastern dishes. I actually enjoy the flavor it adds. If you have serious pain issues you’d probably be better off taking the capsules though so you can take more. Puritan’s Pride has some reasonably priced capsules too – you can get 2 bottles of the 400 mg. 100 count bottles for $6.49.

    http://www.puritan.com/turmeric-510/turmeric-400-mg-000525

    Edit: I’m not sure if the capsules sold on Puritan’s Pride are organic (the powder is).

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Hi HDM, Can humans take turmeric in powder form – make that, does it taste OK? I’m sure it’s a heck of a lot cheaper to buy a pound of powder than a bottle of capsules.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I only use it when I’m having problems with my knee.  I’ve used it for as long as two months at a time, but my usual would be two to three weeks.  I get capsules from my health food store and I take one, three times a day.  You shouldn’t take it if you are on blood thinners, but other than that I haven’t heard any problems.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    How do you calculate your dosage, Patty? Is it something that you can safely take for prolonged periods of time?

  • Pattyvaughn

    I’ve been using turmeric for years for knee pain. It works great, much better than week after week of NSAIDs.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I got 1 lb. organic turmeric powder from puritan’s pride for $10. Pretty good deal.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Okay mis-type by me. I have written down 1/2 tsp. per 25 lbs. Which would make sense why I was giving my 68 lb. dog 1/2 tbs. lol.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    This is fascinating stuff, turmeric. I’m going to take a look at this for myself and my dogs.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I read 1 tsp. per 10 lbs. for the powder and 15-20 mg. per pound of body weight for the capsules.

  • monkey

    Whats the estimated turmeric dosage for a 15lb dog?

  • doggonefedup

    I too must agree!
    Turmeric(curcumin) has earned a place as a wonder drug just like Wormwood (artemisinin) for fighting off problems most likely caused by today’s highly processed and genetically mutated food supply.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I agree Shawna. I started using turmeric shortly after gertie grew that histiocytoma (after reading your post about it). The vet told me it generally takes 2-3 months for the growth to flatten out and disappear. After 2 weeks on turmeric (1/2 tbs. per day) it flattened out and the redness disappeared. A week after that some hair started to regrow. It’s almost gone now (it’s been about 1 month since the growth first appeared), it only looks like a little scab. I’m not sure if it’s the turmeric, her strong immune system from the raw diet, or a combination of both – but I will continue to supplement with turmeric.

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Shawna…..

    I agree, Turmeric is proving to be a wonder drug. In the 1950′s people thought Buck Rogers was pure fiction. By 1969 america put a man on the Moon.  Natural remedies can be cheaper, healthier equivalents to prescription and over the counter drugs. Turmeric is 
    an amazing spice/drug. If people looked into it they would see that it is true. When applied pragmatically plants can be powerful medicines.     

  • Shawna

    “Pop science” (assuming you are talkiing about turmeric)?  Why do you say this? 

    The active ingredient in turmeric is curcumin.  Go to google scholar and search curcumin..  You’ll find more then ample research on it’s anit-inflammatory, cancer treating, antimicrobial etc aspects…

    I’m sure some will say something like — well that’s the active ingredient not the whole spice.  I encourage those thinking along those lines to search “turmeric” in google scholar then.. :)

    And for those not “in” to reading research papers, ALL kinds of information can be found on turmeric at reputable sites all over the web.  Sites like Science Daily dot com.

    “ScienceDaily (Oct. 30, 2006) — An ancient spice, long used in traditional Asian medicine, may hold promise for the prevention of both rheumatoid arthritis and osteoporosis, according to a recently completed study at The University of Arizona College of Medicine”  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061030071152.htm

  • Dave

    Well, there is no evidence it does anything, just more pop science. Studies on people show no efficacy.

  • EvesHumanMom

    Wow.  I knew turmeric as an antioxidant and it is popular in Japanese vitamin drinks for hangovers, but didn’t know it was also an anti-inflammatory.  DFA rules!

  • Dave’s Hounds

    I also use Turmeric daily – primarily I used for joints as my dogs are 10 and 8 – and the anti cancer benefits are a real plus. I also add Bromelain for both joints and as an anti cancer

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I just started my dogs on turmeric. I mix this into their regular whole foods supplement so they get it 6 days a week (Monday – Saturday they get two meals a day supplements in the a.m.; Sunday no supplements of any kind, they just get a whole prey animal in the a.m.then fast for 24 hours). Turmeric is recognized safe for long term supplementation and because I use it for the anti-cancer benefits I look at it as an antioxidant rather than an “herbal” supplement so I think it would be fine to give daily in small doses, for joint pain I would probably do a resting period.

  • Mike P

    I give tumeric from mercola and fish oil about 5 times a week.I also give fresh garic twice a week.I have been taking tumeric myself and my joints feel so much better.I’m just paranoid about my Boxer getting cancer and tumeric seems like a wonder herb to prevent that.I lost two Boxers at 12 years old to cancer but I fed them crap walmart dog food.I found this wonderful DFA site and that is now changed.HDM how do you feel about my giving the tumeric 5 times a week?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Mike P –

    I do feed herbs, just not continuously. Two reasons: 1) so the dog doesn’t develop a tolerance and 2) some (not all) herbs, while helpful for treating certain symptoms in the short-term, are not healthy to give long term as they can build up to toxic levels in the body.

    This past year I put my senior on a chinese herb blend for joints, he does 5 days on/2 days off. During the summer I give all my dogs an herbal tincture to repel fleas and ticks they do 6 days on 1 day off (if I was giving it year round I would do 5 days on 2 days off). The resting period helps the dogs from developing tolerance (some prefer 3 weeks on 1 week off, same idea).

    Just for all supplements I feed in general – both herbal and non-herbal – I try to rotate to a new supplement with different ingredients every 2-3 months. Same reasoning for food rotation, to make sure to fill the nutritional gaps.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Dave-

    Yawn-the link below discusses several studies, including the Purdue ones that “focused” on non dietary related bloat causes.Note the several paragraphs on diet, citric acid yadda yadda yadda

    http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/8_1/features/15682-1.html

  • Mike P

    Very interesting HDM. What is the reason for not feeding herbs?I’m very curious…

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Definitely agree with the rotating. I don’t feed any supplements for an extended period of time, especially herbs.

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi HDM,

    I would agree with that. But its one more reason at least, to rotate. Other than the potato and juniper it looks really good. I love the pairing of lamb with fish. Also it has a lot of meat :) Thank for the info. Thanks also to doggonefedup too. 

  • Dave

    When people like you are found to be wrong they usually react the way you do. You said age has nothing to do with bloat risk, and you are totally incorrect. The older a dog gets the greater the risk. Other than your incorrect opinion, show me some scientific data. 

    My blanket statement is correct on all counts, breed and breed line, age and temperament determine the risk of bloat. It is of course possible a dog could bloat outside of these parameters but it is the outlying case.

    I don’t think you know what you are talking about, actually it is pretty clear that you don’t.

  • Melissaandcrew

     Dave-

    You have chosen to make a specific statement that bloat is an age, breed and temperament influenced issue-that is  a blanket statement and I find it to be incorrect-

    There have been many studies over the years as to what causes bloat, and to date, no one can pinpoint the issue. I believe it was Glickman’s study that found that bloat increases 20 percent with increased age(per year)(its been quite a while since I read these studies) While age can influence the expression of the disease, there have to be other risk factors already at play.Otherwise, we would have a good old bunch of dead large breed, deep chested dogs by the time they turned 7.

    To date, there have been studies saying -Raising the food bowl decreases bloat-then don’t raise the food bowl-Don’t let them exercise before/after eating. A few years back, there was a study saying that dog food which contained oil/fat within the first so many ingredients increased the risk-soak food, don’t soak food. The list goes on and on(and the citric acid one was on Great dane lady’s website if you wish to look it up) Do some research and there are plenty of articles stating that food can be a factor(its also been recc that if one feeds kibble, one should add a tablespoon or two of canned to have ‘something” in the stomach, for the juices to act upon so as to allow the kibble to expand at a slower rate.)

    Regardless, there is no proven fool proof method of preventing it, or a definitive as to what causes it. The only thing I will agree with is that there is a genetic predisposition .

  • doggonefedup

    Nutrients
    The
    major constituents contained in juniper berries are the volatile oils,
    specifically terpinen-4-ol, says the University of Michigan Health
    System. This volatile oil appears to stimulate an increase in urine
    volume without reducing the body’s potassium or electrolytes. Juniper
    berries contain bitters as well, which are substances that are thought
    to promote healthy digestion. Juniper berries also contain nutrients
    like vitamin C, tannins, flavonoid glycosides, potassium, protein,
    resin, sesquiterpenes, fats, fiber and carbohydrates, according to the
    Vitamins & Health Supplements Guide. Additionally, they have some
    amounts of minerals like iron, magnesium, phosphorous, cobalt, copper,
    chromium and calcium.
     

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Johnandchristo –

    I’m sure at the dose present in the dog food it provides some sort of benefit and isn’t harmful. Many herbs are harmful in large quantities but beneficial in small quantities. Chinese herbal blends are a good example – they’re blends of several different kinds of herbs, some of them are not good in large quantities but provide great benefit and work synergistically when combined with other herbs. And ingredient that goes into a dog food has to be “GRAS” (generally recognized as safe). Juniper berries are actually used to combat kidney disease – http://www.vetinfo.com/nutritional-supplements-canine-kidney.html.

  • doggonefedup

     I think you are right. 60% fat minimum because of all the energy used during the run. I don’t know of any Kibble like that. And I know of only one commercial food that was formulated specifically to meet those needs.

  • Johnandchristo

    Thanks doggone…..

    I looked up this…….

    Ron Smith says on the North Dakota State University Extension Service  Web Site that the berries can cause dogs to vomit.

    Large quantities have the potential to cause kidney failure.

    May cause vomiting or diarrhea call your vet immediately if you suspect your pet has ingested this plant. So why the ***** do they put in acana? I”m gonna see if its in other kibbles.

  • doggonefedup

    —Medicinal Action and Uses—Oil of
    Juniper is given as a diuretic, stomachic, and carminative in
    indigestion, flatulence, and diseases of the kidney and bladder. The oil
    mixed with lard is also used in veterinary practice as an application
    to exposed wounds and prevents irritation from flies.

    Spirit of Juniper has properties resembling Oil of
    Turpentine: it is employed as a stimulating diuretic in cardiac and
    hepatic dropsy.

    The fruit is readily eaten by most animals, especially sheep, and is said to prevent and cure dropsy in the latter.  
    Some dogs develop an adverse reaction to items that aren’t poisonous to
    all dogs. If your dog is unable to keep down food or liquid, loses
    consciousness or appears shaky on its feet, consult your veterinarian
    immediately.Read more: Are Juniper Berries Poisonous to Dogs? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_7369200_juniper-berries-poisonous-dogs_.html#ixzz27DoNiUWd

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I believe it. I read somewhere (don’t remember where off the top of my head) that sled dogs usually eat around 60% fat.

  • Johnandchristo

    Does anyone have an opinion about Juiniper berry? I heard it was toxic, for humans. what about dogs? Just wondering.

  • doggonefedup

    HDM,
    not that it has anything to do with what we are talking about but I was recently reading an article that stated “While major producers of dry
    diets have paid mushers to claim that their
    formulas fed the winning racing teams (while in
    reality, they fed diets comprised of beaver and
    other wild animals)”.  that was in an article about the 1,000-mile
    course at the famous Alaskan
    Iditarod race. Those dogs are fed a very high fat diet. 

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Put some kibble in a bowl, add water, and let it sit for about 10 minutes and you’ll see.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I agree with you. Every one of my breeders has told me that if feeding kibble always add water and soak for 5-10 minutes before feeding. When I fed kibble I always soaked.

  • doggonefedup

    All the research in the world isn’t going to change what I have observed with my own to eyes. I believe it is the air gulping and high fiber that are the biggest cause of bloat. It may not have anything to do with the stomach turning and twisting but it sure does have everything to do with the stomach getting over extended with gas.

  • Dave

    Here is a piece from the update to the Purdue Bloat study by the same researchers:

    “These measures, long been thought to reduce the
    risk of bloat, were found to have no effect: Restricting exercise
    before or after eating Restricting water intake before and/or after
    meals Feeding two or more meals per day Moistening dry kibble before
    feeding Factors That DO Make A DifferenceThese four (4) factors
    ARE associated with an increased risk of bloat in large breed dogs
    1)Raising the food dish more than doubled the risk for bloat 2)Speed of
    eating -Dogs rated by their owners as very fast eaters had a 38% increased risk
    of bloat 3)Age: The study found that risk increased by 20% with each year
    of age. Owners should be more alert to early signs of bloat as their dogs grow
    older. 4)Family History: Having a first-degree relative (parent, sibling or
    offspring) that had bloated increased a dog’s risk by 63%.
    Conclusions The Purdue research team concluded these are the things you
    can do to prevent bloat: The strongest recommendation to prevent GVD
    (bloat) should be to not breed a dog that has a first degree relative that has
    had bloat. This places a special responsibility on an owner to inform the
    breeder should their dog bloat. 1)Do not raise the feeding dish
    2)SLOW the dog’s speed of eating.”

    Nothing about ingredients…no boogie man in Citric Acid.

  • doggonefedup

    actually in my opinion, I think it is better to add the moisture back into the kibble and let it expand and/or out gas before the dog eats it instead of in their stomach. 

  • Dave

    How does kibble expand in a dog’s stomach?

  • Dave

    And the it becomes a non-linear curve at age 7 where bloat risk is over 2 times. So do some reading.

  • Dave

    Even if Citric Acid is not listed it is most foods. Any foods with probiotic fermentation products will have some level of citric acid, as well as other acids. 

    Melissa, are you crazy to make such a statment that bloat is not age dependent. I suggest you do some research, seriously. You are dead wrong. The risk of bloat increase by 20% for each year of a dog’s age.

  • doggonefedup

    John,
    I wouldn’t worry about adding water or broth to your Kibble. I have been doing it for as long as I’ve been using kibble. Never had a problem. It is the high fiber kibble with water that is a major cause of bloat from what I’ve seen in the past. I’ve always had German Shepherd dogs and they are a breed that is highly susceptible to bloat.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Johnandchristo-

    I personally would not worry about it.I even wet down the kibble of boarders to help entice them to eat their food. No cases of bloat from this. If anything, the dry kibble expanding in the stomach causes more of a problem from what I have read-I let the kibble sit for 5-10mins before feeding it : )

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Melissaandcrew…..

    I mix warm spring water in Christo’s kibble to. I’m trying to add moister. I read that post and got a little nervous. I’m ok after reading yours. lol.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Dave-

    While dogs that are deep chested are more likely to suffer from bloat, age has nothing to do with it. Very young to the very old have suffered from this condition. I will agree that dogs of a more nervous temperament seem to have more issues from what I have found.

    I wet all our dogs food down with some warm water before feeding simply to unlock the aroma etc. Never have I had a dog bloat due to this practice and no where have  I ever read that wet kibble causes bloat.

    Monkey-Citric acid is not on my fav list, but I do feed some foods that use it and have never had an issue-then again, its never long term.

  • Dave

    You should look into all the professionals that use the this food, last years Iditarod winner, many short distance race teams, the #2 lap dock dog in the world, hunters and a very well know arctic guide that takes his team of dogs on 100 day trips to the circle in winter. Of course regular people as well. This is a serious food.

  • monkey

    If you decide to try it let me know how it goes! I respect your opinion. 

  • monkey

    I am actually seeing more and more companies ditch citric acid though. Not an increase in it. 

  • Dave

    Well you shouldn’t wet kibble. It is likely wet kibble increases bloat risk. As for citric acid, the same researchers never bring citric acid up in the follow up studies. In fact, they mention many things that were found to be wrong in the initial studies. Bloat is a breed specific an age and temperament influenced problem, plain and simple. Diet has little to do with it.

    Citric acid is much more common as preservative than it was 30 years ago and bloat cases have come down substantially in many breeds. The reason is better breeding practices.

    So I wouldn’t worry about citric acid.

    By the way, Dr. Tim’s is an awesome food.

  • monkey

    Does the citric acid make anyone else nervous? Because of that one study on bloat..

    I don’t know what to think as i like wetting the kibble before feeding.

  • AussieLover

    Why is this only “Highly recommended” vs “Enthusiastically recommended” like other 5 star foods?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Yeah they have excellent customer service. I emailed them last week to get the calcium content of their grain-free formula and they responded 5 minutes later.

  • Equiuga

    Their Momentum formula does not contain canola oil. 

  • Equiuga

    Oh my word! I just emailed them today (Sunday morning) about if they get any of their ingredients from China. I kid you not, they responded within 30 minutes on a SUNDAY with   that they absolutely did not. I am so impressed!

  • Hunt

     I have to agree completely with Grub. This is without question the best food available. People get sucked into marketing gimmicks that offer no benefit to the animal. Dr. Hunt gets it. If anyone doubts this food, look at the some of the top competitive dogs using this food.

  • Grub

    I have used many many dog foods. Kibble, raw, dehydrated,etc… Dr. Tim’s is the best food I have ever used period end of story. I also found that it is good for large and giant breed puppies. Dr. Tim is kind, funny, and very caring of our dog’s, as well as there owner’s. He return’s my e-mails,and answers all my question’s. This food makes my ranch dog’s feel and look like top show dog’s. No other food I have used comes close, and yes I have used the best of the best. I  know alot about animal nutrtion. This is the food I choose to feed.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    To the person identifying himself as both Nathan and Dog Lover,

    Your use of multiple fake identities as evidenced by your recent comments posted here using the monikers “Dog Lover” and “Nathan” from the same computer is a violation of Our Commenting Policy.

    This rule clearly states:

    “…the use of multiple identities or other deceptive tactics designed to mislead readers are strictly forbidden.”

    That same policy also states:

    “We encourage courteous critiques, polite debate and calm disagreement”… and “we don’t allow flaming, name calling, trolling or trashing.”

    Because you have violated the rules of this community, your comments have been removed.

    If you would like to re-post your comments, please feel free to do so. However, please obey the rules of our forum.

    Thank you.

  • Nathan

    Well ladies and gentlemen……The pet industry is a 20 billion dollar industry with persons like Tim Hunt wanting to exploit this business. He does not make his own foods nor does he know anything about extruding a kibble nor how to source the ingredients to do so…..this is a guy whom is Anti-social and just wants a part of this vastly growing industry…..Dont let him fool you!

  • Dog Lover

     Whatever  Ass******!

  • Dog Lover

    Dr. Tim is an arrogant and anti-social and he has no quality control over his foods. His foods are made in Lisbon, Ohio co-packed by a company who makes many lines…..This is a good formulation but, due to his attitude and arrogance……I would never recommend this food due to him making it a business and not about the health of the pet..

  • Grace_arden

    It would be great if an analysis of Dr. Tim’s new Grain-free Kinesis could be done. It looks wonderful!

  • Dave’s Hounds

    I am in Bloomfield Hills. The food looks good but I will not use canola oil. 

  • Tim Hunt

    I best apologize if I offended someone at the PetFest in Ann Arbor.  I thought it was a very well attended event with lots of great questions.  Maybe I was tired but I do remember trying to answer many questions about different pets’ problems and illnesses and how one might take advantage of different nutritional and therapeutic plans to try to improve their health.  If my method of explanation came off as being rude, I am sorry.

    As to other pet food vendors, we actually see each other often and get along very well.  There was a brand that does make very outlandish claims that the representative was not aware could not be correct and I was very polite with her, she actually sought me out later for more q and a. And, yes, I did say to her I was not trying to be an a hole, but making an effort to question the validity of their claims which many do dispute. Many vets have different opinions as to how best treat problems and that is great.  Sometimes raw feeding is best, sometimes a combo of that and dry, medications, nutraceuticals, physical rehab, you name it. My thoughts are according to what I believe will help an animal, not to be voted smartest in the class. I hope you do find a good resolution for your pets’ ills, be it liver disease or just being overweight.

  • 4dogdad

    I met him on Saturday at the same event, and he seemed like a pretty decent, knowledgable guy.  I had one of my performance dogs with me, and we spent about 10 minutes discussing different food qualities.  Based on our conversation, we’re going to give his food a try.     

  • Jedipop

    I met Dr Tim today at Pet Fest in Saline Mi at the Farm Council Grounds. While his food may be great he is a total a#%hole. Not sure if he was there to promote his product or just to let everyone know how “smart and knowledgable” he thinks he is. He was down right rude and beyond argumentative. I personally saw him berating 3 other dog food vendors and actually heard him tell one of them he wasn’t trying to be an a#%hole. In my experience anyone who says this knows they are just that. It’s entirely possible that his food is the very best money can buy. However, his people skills suck! One interaction with this guy will send you running in the opposite direction.

  • Julien

    I saw that Petflow started carrying this food so I was quick to grab a bag of Pursuit and Momentum in early June. I have tried so many food over the years for my super active Mals and this food is absolutely the best I have ever used. This is the real deal of high end foods. I have ordered more and several people in my club have as well. 

  • Jess

    Dr Tim, you told me that you removed sodium selenite and that you were gonna replace it with selenium yeast. Which is a way better ingredient. It really doesn’t matter to me as I am not gonna fed your product, nor can I get it in my area. But I do like your dog food ingredients, just not selenium selenite. But then again, I think a lot of crap in dog food is not needed. Grain, potatoes, peas, the list is endless, but they all have some sort of fillers and that is why so many people are starting to fed raw and making there own. Which I could be doing in the future.

  • Agilityace

    I moved all my border collies to Pursuit when PetFlow started selling it in 44lb bags for less than $1.50lb and no tax or shipping and the stuff is awesome!!!!

    No wonder why his team won the Iditarod!!!!!

  • Drtim

    I have a feeling the vitamin K removal was confused with selenium instead, maybe that is the case.  In any event, the selenium is still present and dogs do need it in their diet.

    Thank you for digging up this post on vitamin K and keep the questions coming if you have any.  I can’t check all the different chat sights regularly, so always feel free to mail me direct at drtim@drtims.com

    Dr Tim@drtims:disqus 

  • LabsRawesome

    Hi I found this on Dog food Chat. This is what you told Jess. You removed Menadione. Which I was happy about.  Dr Tim says:

    December 1, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Well, judging by the tone of these last messages I am not sure whether posting on here is a great idea but what the heck.

    Our foods are made with the highest grade protein meal products
    sourced in North America. we use a slow cook process to make the kibble
    to allow for minimal damage to the product and a very high
    digestability. And we use a high level of omega 3 fatty acids. That is
    what makes it sooooooooo much better than the rest out there.

    When you read a label so it is accurate in comparing things, you must
    look at whether it is a dry food label or wet food label. A nice trick
    with using meat in foods is that it will list first because it is 70%
    water when it goes into the extruder. Then the meat loses nearly that
    same amount of weight and when dry can often drop down the list of
    ingredients a large number of spots.When meal is listed on a label and
    meat, I bet almost all foods will truly have the meal being the number
    one ingredient once the kibble is made. So compare apples to apples.

    As to our food and vitamin K we did decide to remove the vitamin k
    several months ago and continue only with the kelp meal as our source of
    vitamin K. Call it what you will, but the opinions of folks out in the
    world were listened to, judged and acted on. I still personally believe
    the vitamin K conflict is unfounded.

  • Drtim

    Jess;

    I am sorry if I confused you or mis spoke but selenium is in our diets as I believe they need it.  I have not found anything to show that it is bad to the dog, just the overall levels need to be carefully added to meet the needs of the dog.

    Here is a link to a good article written by a nutritionist I respect a lot;

    http://www.petfoodindustry.com/Sub_Level_-_News/45525.html

    Dr. Tim

  • Drtim

    Hi Vikki;

    These are whole dried eggs that are used, water removed but the whole egg present.

    I like a balance of sources for different fats( and proteins for that matter); flaxseed and canola are some of the sources for the omega 6′s and flax gives some omega 3. 

    The omega 3′s are primarily sourced from fish as that type of omega 3 has a 10 fold effect as compared to an equal mount of flax seed oil.  Dr. Tim

  • Jess

     He told me that he took it out, hummm…

  • LabsRawesome

    Hey Jess, On Dr, Tims site sodium selenite is still listed.   http://drtims.com/kinesis/

  • someone11111

    lol, sometimes, when i make paragraphs on this site, the space i left disappears when i post it.

    then, my next sentence is too bunched upon a . at end of sentence, and the entire area turns blue, AS IF it is a link, 
    but, it’s not a link.  sorry for odd link which now appears in my last post, NO IDEA what that chinese site is for.  
    rofl.  sorry again.

  • someone11111

    Yes, i once thought adding a dab of cannola oil to my dog’s food a few times a week was beneficial to help his coat and help him absorb his nutrients better,
    but, overtime, it became clear to me, some days i’d notice my dog scratching his own back on the carpetting pretty often.he never chewed his feet or anything, but, just scratched his own back pretty often.I finally removed all the cannola oil out of his diet, and WA-LA, now it’s pretty rare to spot him scratching his own back.just to be sure, i added some cannola oil to his food, and BAM, there he was, scratching his own back on the carpet again.so, no more cannola oil for my dog.

  • Jess

    Dr Tim took  sodium selenite out of his product’s.

  • LabsRawesome

     I agree with you on the Canola. Here is the definition of egg product, from the review above.The sixth ingredient is dried egg product… a
    dehydrated form of shell-free eggs. Quality can vary significantly.
    Lower grade egg product can even come from commercial hatcheries… from
    eggs that have failed to hatch.
    In any case, eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

  • viki

    I’m thinking of trying pursuit in my rotation, but I’m not a fan of canola oil since its GMO, it would be nice if it was removed from the food and substituted with alternate source of omega 6′s like flaxseed or safflower oils. 
    Also does anyone know what egg product is? is it whole eggs or refuse from human manufacturing? 

  • Maclor

    Amazing food. We had a question of to give our Siberian Husky puppy Pursuit or Kinesis and decided to email Dr Tim. The next day he replied and we bought a bag of Pursuit and all of the diarrhea went away in about 2 days.

  • http://www.northupland.blogspot.com Mark Northup

    For those of you looking for an absolutely top shelf food, Dr. Tim’s rocks! Especially if you’re like me and your world revolves around canine athletes and their performance. I have grown up around sporting dogs and fed many different brands. I have been extremely happy personally with my own dogs performance while feeding it. In addition, those friends of mine who now use Dr. Tim’s have been equally impressed with their dogs increased stamina, recovery, appearance, and overall performance in the field. And if you can’t tell from above comments…Dr. Tim knows his stuff and has put it all into his bags of food.

  • http://drtims.com tim hunt

    We have a very unique site going for “Ask Dr Tim”. Try our web site or Facebook and pose any question and I will try to do my best to answer it quickly. Sites like this I don’t frequent often so I may be delayed in a response.

    Dr Tim

  • http://drtims.com tim hunt

    I use flour to guarantee the smallest possible particle for the most rapid digestion. A larger surface area for digestion is what I try to create and a fine particle has much more area for digestion than would a larger particle. That is the reasoning.

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  • Jonathan

    I question one ingredient Tim… rice flour. It’s great that it’s gluten-free, but what about the glycemic index of a flour? Rice Flour has a very high GI of 95. For comparison, the GI of White wheat flour and corn starch is 85, White sugar is 70, Maple Syrup is 65 and Honey is 60. All of these are “High”. Rice flour is one of the highest.

    This is a good looking food, otherwise. I’m just curious.

  • Gordon

    Sorry, I should have said, if what Dr. Tim Hunt is saying is true, and that the very fact he respects forums like these enough to participate by responding in such assurances, then that’s a testament to real QA. It goes a long way in winning customers. Even I would order sample trials if it were available down under.

  • Michelle

    Dr Tim Hunt- I think that it is AWESOME that you listened to the consumer and removed the synthetic vitamin k from your formulas!!!!! I will give your products a try now. Also if you do have ground up Moose in a can, I would love to try that for my 2 dogs. Your post made me hungry for Chocolate Mousse for dessert tonight, lol.

  • Gordon

    IDK anything about this dog food other than it looks good on paper. But if what you’re saying about Dr. Tim, Brian is true, than that’s a testament to good all important Quality Control or QA.

  • Brian

    The simple fact that Dr. Tim is responding to criticism/feedback regarding ingredients professionally and adjusting the ingredients to better his product is truly a breath of fresh air. I will try out this product simply because of their efforts to improve their product.

  • Stacy

    I have a boxer that has a sensitive stomach and I have been feeding him this food for about 3 months now and he seems to like it and does not bother his stomach at all. I have just recently started feeding my cats this brand also. They all LOVE IT!

  • http://drtims.com tim hunt

    Thank you for the nice feedback. I have worked very hard on making a diet I would want to feed to all my dogs and have others benefit from it as well. No more synthetic vitamin K, just old labels used up. I am very happy dogs are doing welol on it and you should try the cat food. We took a mousse and a bird, ground them up and looked at how they were made up. Based the food on that.

    Sometimes you just need to look at the basics of what they eat and go from there.

  • ziegenfarm

    i promised i would get back with my final thoughts. i was quite impressed with the pursuit and will continue to feed that to my shepherds that don’t require grainfree. i was not very impressed with the momentum. it seemed to produce bulkier stools and somewhat looser. for my dogs that require grainfree, i will continue with the natures variety. dr tim’s appears to be a good quality kibble and i am pleased that he has eliminated the menadione and canola as mentioned above. sunflower oil is superior to canola – if they feel they need to add something. i would just add that my thoughts are based on my experiences with my own dogs. not all dogs are the same, so results will vary accordingly. bottom line: i did like the pursuit and will continue to feed it. (thanks for putting up with me)

  • Mike

    I have been reading extensively on this food and after some debate on Dod Food Chat forum the formula has dropped canola oil and oat flour. There is still controversy on the beet pulp, flax seed oil, natural flavor, and salt. I liked how Dr. Tim responded to each of the criticism in a professional manner and was genuinely interested in how he could improve his product. I look forward to the sample coming, and still need a way to get it to Oregon without paying enormous shipping on a few bags a time.

  • ed

    Very high grade stuff. You can tell from the low ash content.

    Less than 6% on a 30/20 is pretty darn good.

  • Emilee

    @ Ed I am from Northeastern WI. I have now had my dogs eating nothing but Dr.Tims… since my last post. All are on Pursuit except one Shepard I have on Momentum due to having difficulties keeping wieght on him and Prior to Feeding Dr.Tims I had all I could do to get him to eat, since the switch he hasn’t missed a meal! I have also noticed that I went from vacuming his kennel out daily to barley finding any hair(same goes for my entire house with 7 dogs)…Overall I have only seen improvments in my 7 dogs, very happy with this food! I will note it was a little more expensive for the Pursuit and Mometum, the Kenisis was $38 and it went up a few $$ for the pursuit and momentum… but worth every penny plus compared to what I was feeding I am feeding half of there old portion :)

  • Jonathan

    Earthborn took menadione out a while ago, but continued to use bags that showed the synthetic ingredient for quite some time… hey, bags are not cheap! :-)

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Ziegenfarm… Call the company. That’s the only way to find out.

  • ed

    By the way his name is Dr. Tim Hunt and he really is a well know sports vet and dog sled racer.

  • ed

    It may be that he is using old bags up, even if the food was made just a few weeks ago.

    I have seen this before with other companies that have taken it out. Email him and ask.

  • ziegenfarm

    i sincerely hope you are right on this. none of the internet ingredient list include menadione, however it is listed on the bags i received yesterday. which explains my confusion. if alfalfa and kelp are included, there is no need for the menadione in the first place. as far as i can see, the only reason it was included (in any food) was to counter the effects of melamine poisoning back in 06-07.
    as i said before, i am willing to give this food a fair trial. i have only fed it twice so far, but the dogs like it and the stools look good. i will get back with results in a couple of weeks or so.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Ziegenfarm… Ed is right. Since late 2010, Dr. Tim’s no longer contains menadione. You may have purchased a bag with an older manufacture date. Why not call the company to confirm this.

  • ziegenfarm

    http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione

    yes it does. k1 & k2 are natural, but k3 is synthetic. menadione IS the synthetic form.

  • ed

    This food Does Not contain synthetic K.

  • ziegenfarm

    i just bought 1 bag of momentum and 2 pursuit from dogfood direct. they were delivered this a.m. for the most part, i think this kibble sounds pretty impressive, however i am not keen on canola since it is a genetically modified oil and the fact that it contains menadione rather disturbs me. menadione has been touted to cause immune problems and kidney failure. i have avoided menadione for quite some time now and probably would not have bought this had i realized it was in there. i see one fella, nate, has been feeding this for 3 yrs and obviously has had no problem with it. i am willing to give it the benefit of the doubt for the time being. i really hope it works out as i have already run the dogfood gammut several times and would love to find something that truly works for my german shepherds. i will give this some time and post again after i have made up my mind.

  • ed

    Emillee where are you from?

  • Emilee

    Or local feed Store got some of this in..so after reading reviews I was suprised when I found out the price was $38 for a 38 pound bag! I have been switching my dogs over two to the pursuit and three to the momentum the switch has been very easy on them and they LOVE it! I was in the feed store today to see if they could order order more for me and they said they have never had a dog food take off like this food…not sure if it is my local feed store or Dr.Tims that offers also a buy 10 bags get one free deal. Over all I am loving this food!

  • Laurie M.

    Just an FYI, Dr. Tim’s pet food is now available for purchase online at Dog Food Direct’s web site, http://www.dogfooddirect.com

  • Laurie M.

    Antonio, if you go on the website, there is an offer for a free sample bag that will come with coupons toward your purchase. Also post cards that you can submit to your local feed stores to try and convince them to carry this product.

    On another note, according to the website, there will be Special Diet Formulas available in the Spring (I assume it’s Limited ingredients formulas for dogs with special needs) so I will be keeping an eye on this.

  • Antonio

    I emailed Dr. Tim’s website, and the response time is fantastic, the kibble looks pretty well balanced. I also wish it had more availability as the product does seem like a nice quality feed.

  • Laurie M.

    I wish this food was more widely available. Maybe it will be, hopefully, soon enough. Awesome products and wonderful company.

  • Nate Demers

    We have been feeding Dr.Tim’s Dog food for Three years. We started feeding Pursuit to our Beagles. The First thing we noticed was that they seemed to really like the flavor. We can still feed a kibble as a treat. I have never seen a dog that really seems to enjoy the taste of a hard food even years latter. We started skijoring this year and feed five alaskan huskies momentum. This winter we have supplemented with beef. They live outside and run 6 days a week, the beef helps them keep weight on and provides nutrients that are hard to get from any dry food. In the off season we will be back to feeding just momentum. Also, I had a question about feeding, and when I asked via his website, It took Dr.Tim less than a day to answer my question. If you go to his website you can ask for a sample. Another bonus is that we use less kibble with his food.

  • Jonathan

    The Momentum formula looks really good for sled dogs. Didn’t find a price on it, though. I don’t know where you would buy it… their web site has a distributor locator….

    http://drtims.com/distributors/

    Here’s the Momentum formula…

    Low ash chicken meal, brown rice flour, low ash herring meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), beet pulp, dried egg product, rice bran, flax seed meal, oat flour, salmon oil, canola oil, natural flavor, salt, dried chicory root, potassium chloride, yucca shidigera extract, vitamins (niacin supplement, vitamin E supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, riboflavin supplement), dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, kelp meal, psyllium seed husks, L-ascorbyl-2 polyphosphate, trace minerals (iron sulfate, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite, ethylenediaminedihydiodide), chelated trace minerals (zinc amino acid chelate, manganese amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate), L-carnitine, rosemary extract.

    Crude protein, min. 37%
    Crude fat, min. 23%
    Crude fiber, max. 3%
    Moisture, max. 10%
    Ash, max. 6%
    Omega 6, 4.62%
    Omega 3, 1.12%

  • Antonio

    Does anyone on the forum have any personal experience w/ Dr. Tims formulas? Many in the sled dog community rave about this product. I was wondering about it for my dog.

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