Diamond Dog Food Recall Summary

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Brands. Bag codes. “Best-By” dates. As the Diamond Dog Food Recall of 2012 continues to unfold, it’s become increasingly difficult for a concerned dog owner to keep up with all the changes.
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So, to help readers stay up-to-date on this ever-changing event, I’ve created this special summary report.

Here you’ll find links to pages that contain all the important articles, bag codes and best-by dates for each recalled product.

The following is a list of all the brands currently associated with the Diamond Dog Food Recall:

The Bottom Line

Like with human food recalls, dog food recalls are inevitable and unpredictable. So, your only defense is to stay informed.

Due to the widespread nature of this particular event, you may wish to bookmark this page for future reference. That way, if any additions or changes occur, you’ll be able to quickly return to this page and find your way to your specific brand.

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  • di from Oregon

    Okay, so feeding my Lacy Doodle Kirklands Natures Domain Turkey, Sweet Potato. This food is manufactured by Diamond Pet Foods and it appears the last recall was last years from Salmonella poisoning from the S.Carolina plant, but not distributed to Oregon, only certain states, so I’m thinking we are safe here?

  • J

    What.

  • ItsACouponThing

    Are you serious! Oh, come on! I thought they were finally getting their act together! This really ticks me off, because I was ready to give them a chance, thinking CERTAINLY by now everything would have been cleaned-up. What will it take: a class-action suit?!!

  • Concerned consumer

    I live in Ellensburg WA and in the past month I know of three cases of dogs getting very sick from eating Diamond brand dog food. Two had to be treated by vets for vomiting and severe digestive issues. Fortunately, the third quit using the food at first sign her dog was getting ill. In each case it took about three weeks to show symptoms. Beware!!!

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Well Diamond couldn’t keep their act clean for too long, they’ve already got another recall. It doesn’t affect us dog people, but Premium Edge, Diamond Naturals and 4Health cat foods were recalled yesterday due to low thiamine levels.

    http://truthaboutpetfood2.com/premium-edge-diamond-naturals-and-4health-dry-cat-food-f-ormulas-voluntarily-recalled

  • http://www.facebook.com/mercedesc21 Mercedes Green

    I put my dog on a local sustainable dog food in Las Vegas called Man’s Best Friend Catering. Since factory opening 35 years ago they have not experienced one recall. Ive been on Orijen, Canidae, Taste of the Wild, and many others and my german Shepherd hasnt been healthier. If your concerned about your dogs food call them and try it out. 702-479-2900

  • Ross Taylor

    Excellent post. I think, the alternatives of individuals do as way as switching-different people are attending to have completely different opinions. Our pet food reports give a large vary of knowledge on pet care merchandise, cat food, pet-food etc. the corporate profiles within the pet food sector embrace Procter & Gamble, Mars Co., Nestle, Del Monte, Colgate-Palmolive etc.

  • Pattyvaughn

    You should have read a little more.  This recall was from last Spring.  It is not current.  That is not to say the food shouldn’t be recalled again, but it hasn’t.  If you had read back, you would see that several people have reported in recent weeks that their dog(s) is sick from this food, and they have been advised to file a report with the FDA, because the food will not be recalled if the FDA doesn’t have enough complaints about it.  This may be aflatoxin poisoning.  This is a great time to switch to a grain free food.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Theresa-Brown/100001283642046 Theresa Brown

    We just realized about this recall, why did the stores not pull all these brands completely…All of a sudden 3 – 4 days ago our family dog started not feeling well, was going to vet today to find out what was going on, had to start giving her pedialyte last night for vomiting, diarrhea, we have two dogs at two totally different homes.  Both dogs related, however both just having full check ups not to long ago completely healthy!  Roxie the older of the two passed away last night suddenly?  I research because someone asked me about what food she was on, I thought they were crazy…come to find out both dogs are on the 4Health, again two dogs, two different houses, both dogs doing same thing!  Second dog into vet asap…what the heck, PULL THIS FOOD!

  • jakomos

    we anymore buy the most basic dogfood, whatever the supermarket brand is.  we used to buy blue buffalo until there was a recall.  we heard of some scary things coming of that.  then we went with purina one, until about two years ago when there was a pretty massive recall that took a lot of dog’s lives.  our pups are fine and happy with basic dry dog food, as long as it is little bits, not too large of kibble.  once a week, they get an egg and some wheat bran with a dab of milk in their bowls.  that usually happens on sunday morning.  i havent found a perfect dog food for them.  i look every now and again, but i wind up staying with the basic dry dog chow.

  • Hoanbu

    What is the long term effect on an older dog who has been exposed to repeated contamination??  I have fed my dogs Diamond dry food for years (Lite Senior at the moment) as my dogs are aged 9 and 10.  Just recently, the 9 yr old male had 2 massive grand mal seizures.  My vet could only get him in a WEEK LATER bc of the holidays.  She said he has liver failure.  Do you think this could have anything to do with his dog food??

  • Keith Somers
  • Flyersphan29

    purina one won’t be recalled due to its lack of protein sources 

  • concerned

    I’m concerned that more foods are contaminated or are otherwise “bad” than just the recalled foods.  I have five healthy rescue dogs ages 8-13 years old.  Last January 2012 the oldest became very ill with vomiting, bloody diarrhea, would not eat.  Vet could not figure out what was wrong with her but with intensive care she recovered.  I had just gradually converted them from a really crappy food used while I was unemployed over to Purina One.  Then, last April 2012, another dog became critically ill with the exact same symptoms and had to be hospitalized; we ran every test the vet could think of regardless of cost but this yielded no answers (he got better too).  In June two more dogs had the same vomiting and bloody diarrhea; this time I tried probiotics which seems to have helped.  Enough is enough and I changed food again, this time to Fromm dry food with Castor and Pollux canned food mixed in.  I chose these looking for brands not involved with recalls.  All five dogs are doing great but two don’t like the food combo much.

    Anyway, I do not see recalls listed for the Purina One that I believe was behind my dogs’ illnesses.  The company is so big and powerful, could they suppress any news about product contamination?  For me this is purely a hypothetical question because I have switched, never to return.

  • Kaw5885

    If anyone’s wondering, I spoke with a rep from Wellness who said that they’ve left Diamond since this recall.  All of the Wellness dry food is now made in house at the WellPet plant, along with their other two brands Eagle Pack, and Holistic Select.  Their canned food is made with American Nutrition.  I had been thinking about switching my dog off of Wellness, but may not anymore since they’re no longer with Diamond.  Does anyone know if any of these other brands are no longer with Diamond?  I know that TOTW is actually a Diamond food made by Diamond for Diamond, but I don’t know if the others are as well.  

  • Toxed2loss

    O.k. But just so you know, I’m not a vet, or a doctor. I’m an expert in Toxic Injury. I can make suggestions… It’s up to you past that:

    Which probiotics? Quality counts. I use the Mercola product. Shawna, who’s my nutritional go to gal/whiz/genius also recommends Primal Defense.

    Gut repair – astaxanthin or krill oil, again, Mercola.com far more powerful than vitamin C.
    - pumpkin purée, not the pie mix ( sugar) but you can add in cinnamon, just a dash.
    - enzymes to help his stomach with digestion, thats right mercola.
    - Raw is going to be easier to digest and healthier, so high quality kibble + toppers or balanced raw. What are you feeding now?
    -garlic, Shawna should be along here shortly with even better info…
    -no grain or potatoes
    -raw egg (yolk especially) it is the easiest thing to digest and is power packed with nutrients.
    -chlorella caps or dried parsley ore his food.

    Then reduce environmental toxins. I just left a post for Dosana about that on the “Iams Veterinary Formula Skin…” thread.

  • Kelly Flaming

    We do not know there is no cure, just hope it eventually works through him. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

  • Toxed2loss

    Hi Kelly,
    I can see why you’re (justifiably) angry. That’s horrifying! Poor guy! What’s his prognosis, now?

  • Kelly Flaming

    My 13 month old Great Dane which got sick in January vomiting and diarrhea. I have had 6 Danes previously and never had a one where we could not stop a case of diarrhea. We did the rice and hamburger routine, but we could not get the diarrhea stop so we we took him to the vet. We tested for Giardia and worms both came back negative. We did everthing the vet said to do and we could not get the diahrrea stopped until he was put on probiotics 3 times a day. What should be noted is that Costco did not phone until May with a recall about their Kirkland Signature dog food. Talk about corporate irresponsibility, Diamond Pet Food recalls were on the television in January and not once did they mention bloody Costco’s Kirkland Signature dog food. My Dane lost 45 pounds before we got him back on the road to recovery. IT COSTS ME OVER $100 PER MONTH FRO PROBIOTICS!!! If I leave him 3 days without probiotics the poop is shooting out of him. Worse yet Costco says it was  voluntary recall. Their irresponsibility almost killed my dog and because I fed him their dog food he has a serious condition. It is one thing to make a mistakes but have the testicular fortitude to tell people. Whoever made the decision not to tell people should be fired sued and prosecuted. 

  • PTRP

    http://efoodalert.net/diamond-pet-foods-etc-recalls-2012/readers-report-their-experience-with-recalled-pet-foods/

    Another poll to report illness or death potentially related to Diamond products.

    Google “salmonella carcinogen correlation.”  I’m not a chemist, but this may explain why there seems to be two problems: salmonella and the second group of organ failure or death.  

  • PTRP

    For anyone with a sick animal that you believe is related to the food, please be absolutely certain to report your case to the FDA because they can’t do anything to help other animals if they are not aware of what is happening.    http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeter…
    There is a second group of cats and dogs, generally the smaller and older animals, who have died from organ failure most likely not related to salmonella.  Regardless of FDA reports, the cases as indicated by online polls span the entire US indicating that there is potentially a common ingredient problem among many brands.   It’s imperative to call the FDA in addition to leaving comments on websites.
    Read consumer complaint polls on the Diamond CostCo brand here: http://www.askavetquestion.com…
    Consumer complaints on the Natural Balance brand co-packed by Diamond here:  http://www.consumeraffairs.com…
    For a list of the 155 formulas and 14 brands in the recall, this site has a summary on the link at the left “Diamond Dog Food Recall Summary.”

  • Hulabird

    This recall has been out for awhile and I just get an email from amazon.com 5 min ago saying the bag of food I bought back in March was on the voluntary recall, 3 months later they tell me this. Thanks to God my dog has not shown any signs of sickness since he has already eaten 3/4 of the 18 lb bag. My brand is Premium Edge (weight reduction). It is getting so I want to just make my dog his food myself like I am doing with pet treats.

  • Guest

    The Tractor Supply house brand is made by Diamond, too.

  • Maureen

    Everyone should read this – Investigation of Multistate Outbreak of Human Salmonella Infantis Infections Linked to Dry Dog Food
    http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/CORENetwork/ucm302904.htm Looks like one reason they even decided to recall these 15 dog food brands was because humans were getting infected. Makes you wonder if they would have ever recalled otheerwise!

  • Shawna

    Thanks for the info!!  I will definitely check it out :)..

    I think we can all look back and say “if I had only done it differently” :)..  Early 20s —- WOW!!  That doesn’t make for a fun adulthood does it….

    The more I learn about food and “nutritionism” the more I wonder how any of us are “truly” healthy.. :(

    I hope you find a way to get back to optimal health for you and your entire family (including the four legged ones)!!

  • daisy1999

    I will check it also, as all run in immediate family.

  • daisy1999

    I wanted to get back to you on this also.  Sometimes “tradional nurse brain” forgets to connect to “alternative brain education”.  I wasn’t thinking about the fact that I myself take citrate.  I went to a physiatrist for a long time-I admit I haven’t seen her in prob. 9 months.  But, she takes a very holistic approach in addition to tradional pain meds and physical therapy.  She is a certified PIH(Perque Integrated Systems) provider.  Their belief is in the “Alkaline Way” for optimal health.  She had me on the diet, the daily urine ph and vit c testing, all types of things.  I should go back to it.  Go to the site.  You will LOVE it!  Its right up your alley.  They have a diet book.  Its all about corn, gluten, toxin, and I forget what else free.  I just saw when I went back to the site that they have dog/cat supplements now also which I am going to be checking out.  Unfortunately, I already had the spurs, arthritis, etc. by my early 20s but maybe I could have saved myself a lot of grief had I done more things different when things started going downhill.

  • Shawna

    PS — here’s a blurb on the Amazon page about the book

    “If you get too much calcium, through food sources or by taking supplements, you set yourself up for an array of negative health consequences, including obesity, Type 2 diabetes, Type 2 hypothyroidism, hypertension, depression, problem pregnancies and more. This book gives you all the information you need to stay healthy and to regain your health if you or your doctor have been duped by The Calcium Lie.”  http://www.amazon.com/The-Calcium-Lie-Doctor-Doesnt/dp/0981581854

    Show More

    Show Less

  • Shawna

    Daisy ~~ just noticed your post..  I wasn’t on for a while. :)  Let me know if you find anything..  I have a few other sources of the same, or similar, info too..  I learned about calcium bicarbonate (calcium wave etc) at a seminar called Back to School for Doctors a few years back (I attended as a guest of my fathers). 

  • Kaliberknl

     Hugs :-)

  • doggonefedup

     This is why I used the word “contaminate.”  You are absolutely correct, Salmonella is a very common contaminate. Just a few months back millions of eggs were recalled  because of Salmonella, and prior to that I believe it was fresh spinach, and before that I think it was white pepper. My point was that the contamination doesn’t just appear out of nowhere, it happens as a result of some other action. In the case of the spinach and the white pepper it was determined that the disinfectant was missing from the water used in the process(for washing the food stuff). But, how did it get into the water? Was it carelessness or were they trying to save a buck? An Illinois based company for instance was busted for taking “shortcuts” in the process that may or may not have resulted in contamination. They were just trying to save a buck, and swore up&down they did nothing wrong……..

  • daisy1999

    Of course I am, if they still want anything-as is my son.

  • Kaliberknl

     I think those of us who fear Chinese imports fear things of far greater danger than Salmonella.

  • Kaliberknl

     I’m not sure I understand what you are saying.  Money talks…Salmonella testing is expensive and few vets would test merely to spend someone’s money.  Salmonella is also difficult to diagnose.  There are many varieties.  Positive results are usually found from samples of diarrhea or vomitus.  Most folks here are normal, sane people not hypochondriacs :-)

  • doglover

    //”My question concerning the recall is where did the material come from that brought the contaminate into the facility”//
    Salmonella is easily found on lots of poultry, from anywhere and everywhere.  It’s probably also on the shell of the raw egg you whipped up for breakfast.  Salmonella may very well be in your healthy, not-sick dog’s feces, too.It’s hard to go an entire summer, without some produce being recalled for salmonella.  (just watch the news).  Verrrry common bug, it’s all around you.This is WHY we humans have to always wash our hands before we eat.
    So long as humans wash their hands well, humans are  usually protected from getting that salmonella into their own mouths.  Also, kitchen surfaces have to kept washed, too, after raw eggs or raw meat were handled, of course.Salmonella does not have to be “imported” at all.  It’s a very very common bug, not the least bit exotic. Bet you even walked by some salmonella today.  

  • doglover

    It’d be unlikely for you or i to test a dog who isn’t sick, but, i should have counted how many ppl i’ve seen posting on this site, and other sites, how they ARE collecting specimens to see if their dog has salmonella.

    for real.
    I bet, even on this here thread, if you scroll down, you’ll spot several dog owners wanting their dogs tested, saying they will do this/plan to do this, etc.  
    Plus, since these dogs were owned by humans who got sick, the human’s sickness may have added to their fear that their dog is also sick, and added to their vet’s decision to go ahead and have those dogs (from sick owners) tested.

  • Deanna

    Fromm is made in Wisconsin.

  • doggonefedup

     Fromm plainly had “product of China” printed on the lower front panel of their 4 star dry food bags before the big melamine scare. That’s about the time they stopped making the canned “shredded beef entree”. I did use the canned beef, chicken, and pork, shredded entrees. I don’t think the canned food was made anywhere else but in their American “people quality food plant”, but the dry was most definitely imported from China at one point.  

     As far as “US sourced” ingredients, all that means is they are purchasing from a US based distributor that may or may not be purchasing from China. Unfortunately there are a lot of products that simply are not made in the USA anymore period.  The Federal government always specified made in USA products ONLY on all government contractors but had to change that requirement to North and/or Central America only, because many products are not made here. They had to shut down one construction job for over a year because iron pipe required for the job is no longer made in the US and had to be imported from Canada.  

  • Marie

    Fromm has never ever been manufactured in China. They’ve had, in the past, had their cans made in China and the food itself canned in the US, but the consumer objection was so strong that they swiftly stopped that practice a few years ago.

  • 4beagles

    I just started using Fromm’s this week.  According to their website they don’t use any ingredients from China.  It says all ingredients are sourced in the US. 

     Not sure if that means they could end up buying ingredients from a US distributor who imported ingredients from China.  If I remember correctly there was a US distributor involved with the 2007 melamine recall that sold to gluten to US manufactures.  Unfortunately, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find out where ingredients are from even in human food.  I recently read that about 80% of apple juice concentrate in the US is sourced from China.

  • doggonefedup

     I had considered using Fromm dry several years ago. That was until I read “product of China” on the bag. Since then they moved manufacturing back to the United States because of the Melamine scare a few years back. However, from what I understand they still use Chinese ingredients.
      Personally I’m sticking with TOTW as my dry food. Recalls happen all the time, and this one was voluntary as a result of contamination by a substance that is (in general) safe for dogs. My question concerning the recall is where did the material come from that brought the contaminate into the facility. The answer may scare you. Did the raw material come from a facility that supplies raw materials to dozens of dog food manufacturers and just have a bad batch? Did they send it out anyway figuring that salmonella wasn’t anything to worry about around dogs and chickens? I don’t know, but that worries me more than a company that stands behind its product enough to do a voluntary recall.
    Two Chinese companies and an American importer were indicted on charges
    of intentionally defrauding American manufacturers about poisonous
    ingredients used in pet food. That was in 2007. Those ingredients were also found in Chinese baby food.   nuff said.

  • Speileen68

    I used Fromm year ago, surf and turf, just got too expensive. Our dogs were on taste of the wild until the recall. To me I liked either Fromms or Pinnicle, went with Pennicle, had great reviews

  • Kaliberknl

     It is unlikely that an owner would spend money testing a healthy dog for Salmonella.  There is also the possibility that another problem with the food has enabled Salmonella to sicken dogs.

  • doglover

    I wish that article had stated if the two dogs confirmed as having salmonella,
    were actually sick.
    Many dogs have stools which will test out positive for salmonella, 
    yet, the dog is not sick.
    since those two dogs were owned by humans who got sick, it is not impossible, the humans brought their dogs’ stool spec to the vet,
    got positive for salmonella result 
    but the dogs may not have been sick at all.  Wish that article had explained IF the dogs were actually sick.

    since most healthy dogs will pass salmonella right on out, without ever ever succumbing to salmonella.

  • Jltolf

    I am in nv…been feeding totw for a little over 2 years…my dogs love it and do well on it but they are my babies and I just don’t feel comfortable any longer feeding them this food like you never know what is safe. I just switched to Fromm grain free. I will see how they do…as far as my research goes Fromm has an excellent track record…no recalls. Does anyone else feed Fromm or no of the food?

  • Kaliberknl

     No restrictions post transplant…chocolate companies loved me  :-)  Please consider being an organ donor…in PA, you merely say yes on your driver’s license.

  • daisy1999

    We were looking at the “elemental vs total”.  Which is Tums reg vs Ultra the total is 500mg vs 1000mg, but the elemental is 200mg vs 400mg.  Now, it was always said to look at elemental vs total, but Shawna has brought up that there is new contrdicting evidence to this-which I’m going to have to look in to.  Look below and she has info and a rec. book about it.

  • daisy1999

    Me too!  Once you are transplanted, do you have to follow any restrictions?  i know you do high prot. at 1st for healing and such.  And, I know of course you have to be careful do to your immune system from the anti-rejection meds.  But are there others?  My BF did liver transplant ICU @ UCLA before returning here recently so I learned a lot from her in regards to that.

  • 4beagles

    hounddogmom and doglover, Thanks for your comments regarding making homemade food.  I believe I have looked at the dogaware.com site previously but I will revisit.  Just began switching over to Fromm’s yesterday, so I will see how that goes before I make any other changes.

  • Kaliberknl

     High phosphorous foods are all my favorites…ice cream, cheese, chocolate, peas…

  • Kaliberknl

     Tums Ultra have 1000 mg…

  • Shawna

    That is seriously messed up Daisy!!!!  The lack of insurance as well as the doggy dietician!!  I am soooo very thankful I found my M.D. Dr. Ryan..  Clinical Nutritionists look at things soooooo much more differently then dieticians (or even nutritionists)!!!

    Are you familiar with “oral tolerization”..  I give Audrey a product that acts as an oral antigen..  And I am soooo greatful I learned about nitrogen trapping…  Not only does it help with BUN but has SOOO MANY additional benefits to the body..  Penn State released an article a few years back that stated probiotics “prime” neutrophils…  I foster—-Audrey is has been exposed to a lot of nasties and RARELY gets sick and when she does her immune system (with a little at home supportive care) kicks a– :).. 

    We have HIGH humidity and hot days — fleas are an issue but I have never had to use any products on any of the dogs (neighbors on either side do)..  I find a tiny amount of flea dirt on the Poms heads at the very end of the season but never lasts more then a week and then gone…

  • Shawna

    THANKS Daisy!!  It’s the “elemental” part that bothers me..  It is better absorbed but it is now believed that it is not as well utilized by the body — hence the spurs, arthritis etc.  (There’s a book out on it that I want to read but haven’t had a chance to yet.)  However, in ESRD cataracts and bone spurs (or the doggy equivalent) are the least of the worries…  I will check out calcium acetate..

    Are you familiar with the “calcium wave” and calcium’s affect on the immune system?  That is why end conversion to bicarbonate is even a major consideration for me…

    PS — the book is called “The Calcium Lie – What Your Doctor Doesn’t Know Could Kill” by Dr. Robert Thompson M.D. and Kathleen Barnes.

  • daisy1999

    I know the mindset in regards to dogs has changed a lot regarding this.  In regards to people, it is still believed that by restricting from the beginning can help slow progression.  But, like I said the initial restriction isn’t huge.  And depending on the type of kidney disease along with other contributing factors it doesn’t always help and that is known.  But, higher protein and harder to digest proteins definitely tax the kidneys in people more than dogs.  I would think just due to the whole genetic makeup of dogs requiring a much more protein dense diet.  We had really good dieticians where I worked and kidney patients are monitored very closely.  In fact, the only diseases that Medicare pays for a dietician for are renal disease and diabetes-which I think stinks!  Good they do for those pts. because they need it, but so do many others.  I’m now no longer able to go to my dietician unless I fork out 100+ a visit.  Yes, I could do it myself, but quite honestly I’m tired.  So, its me and my Boost-haha.  Oh, and I had a dietician for my heart/kidney dog years back-I don’t remember her being of much use.  I wasn’t allowed to get him fries with his Happy Meals anymore and no cheese on his burger-I kid you not!

  • daisy1999

    I was thinking to in hindsight about TUMS vs eggshell in this scenario.  If 1tsp ground eggshell has 2000mg elemental Ca and 1 reg. TUMS only has 200mg.  Your dog would probably be eating a lot of TUMS!  And, I know mine would eat the whole bottle if it were spilled by accident, but if they were supposed to-bet me!  But for people, I don’t think I want to eat eggshells and I love TUMS-but I can’t have them anymore.

  • daisy1999

    That’s terrible!

  • iluvedoggies5

    All of the brands of dog food in my area with decent ingredients and not a bad price are all diamond manufactured. How is anyone supposed to feel good about the food they are feeding their pets if there’s recalls all the time? I know there are going to be recalls, but honestly it bugs the crap out of me to know that they’re out there. What are we supposed to feed our pets?

  • daisy1999

    Ok, you just got me there with the eggshells.  Now, I did use them during my “raw disaster phase.”  But, the ACV converting the type Ca, I had to look that up because I had no idea.  I’m currently soaked in ACV-I wonder what I might convert to?  I just want the GD fleas and mites that have left the dogs to quit snacking on me before I lose it!  Carbonate used to be the choice method for phos binding until the early 90s because it has the highest amt. of elemental Ca. therefore got rid of the most phos.  Then they realized that Calcium Acetate-which has a much lower elemental amt was able to remove the same amt. of phos.  Which was a great find as the risk then of hypercalcemia is less and if it is already present it is much safer.  Hence the invention of PhosLo, which you will see just about every ESRD patient on.  There are still some that do Tums-but usually when lacking prescription coverage.  If you are going to use egg shells, I would stick to leaving them as carbonate if she is really having a problem, then go to acetate if hypercalcemia comes into play.  I’m assuming they have it for dogs also, but by prescription as with people.  If you go to citrate, you have only have half the elemental concentration of carbonate, but without the equal binding capabilities that acetate has. 

  • daisy1999

    Chinese junk goes to me.  No, 8 surgeries and someone always manages to mess up the anesthesia, surgery, or both.  I live off Boost.  Its yummy.  The ingredients would scare the pants off Shawna, but its better than nothing.

  • Shawna

    No affect on protein digestion though huh??  My research (Daisy mentions my thoughts are incorrect) lead me to believe that if an antacid were taken with food (in a dog) that HA (oops HCI) would not reach high enough amounts to activate pepsin—-keeping in mind that I raw feed a high protien diet. 

    This paper states that the PH needs to be 1 to 3 in order for the activation of Pepsin (in people).  http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio115/protocols/pepsin.pdf

    My other concern — David Wolfe has a video in which he discusses excess calcium (not utilized in bone, teeth or bicarbonate) ending up as spurs, cataracts, arthritis etc.  He calls calcium carbonate “a poison”.

    My M.D. is also a Certified Clinical Nutritionist and also recommends against carbonate supplementation — in humans…(her clinic is called “Alternatives” by the way :)…  Obviously, she treats holistically.  She charges $300 an hour, doesn’t take insurance and is worth her weight in gold in my opinion ;)..

    After Audrey’s diagnosis I started playing around with her diet.  At one point she was on the verge of hypercalcemia and I had to lower her calcium to the normal amount I had been feeding pre-diagnosis.  We did feeding trial and errors for a year (with blood work every three months) til getting it right — back to normal diet with inclusion of nitrogen trapping and whole food B, C and a multi as well as the oral antigen for kidneys and liver..  In my opinion, the oral antigens has been a HUGE reason for her longevity…

  • Shawna

    LOL!!!!!  I, still to this day, am not fond of working with meat — especially liver ——-soooooooo slimy!!!  I try to use a fork exclusively when working with liver..  First time I processed heart it was pretty gross but since no one else was willing to do it for me….. :)  Hubby bought me a meat slicer (commercial grade) and meat grinder (not commercial grade)…  For any wanting to do this —– DON’T waste your money on a non-commercial grade grinder—–takes about 2 hours to do a pound of heart..  Ughhh..  The food processor is much faster..

    I’ll be waiting for that heart Daisy :)…

  • Kaliberknl

     Thanks for the kind words.  My parathyroid glands were removed post transplant so I am chronically hypocalcemic.  Endocrinologist kept increasing my calcium dose to no avail.  Tums finally raised my calcium to a safe level.

  • Shawna

    PS — yeah, after the fact, I was upset that they didn’t at least mention the consequences in doing the surgery….  I was in such a daize that I wasn’t thinking straight til it was all done and over with..

    Audrey wouldn’t MOVE for three whole days.  Luckily I had elected to have the surgery done on a Friday (as normal) so that I could be with her over the weekend.  Ended up taking Monday off work. 

    We slept on the floor in the living room with piles of blankets and washable pillows under us cause she was urinating (LARGE amounts of course) in her sleep.  During the day, I had to carry her outside to go and then back in again.  I was horrible!!

    Ever since she has been terrified of the vets office.  She even would wet herself and shake violently when we tried to take her to the groomer (she’s part poodle).  So we ended up buying HIGH END clippers and I do it myself..  Not as pretty as a groomer would do but gets the job done without stressing her.. :)

  • Shawna

    It’s the calcium in Tums that is the reason for giving (which you, of course, know)..  Rather then Tums, I have calcium lactate on hand to use as needed.  I also have ground egg shells ready and waiting for that point in time when I do need to reduce phosphorus (will replace the bone in her diet with the egg shells).  Also have sushi rice stored in freezer and two cases of deer and lamb tripe.. :)

    I like calcium lactate better then calcium carbonate as it is converted to bicarbonate easier..  Since she will have a harder time fighting infections etc, I want to make it easier to convert the calcium given to bicarbonate (the excess not used to bind phos).  I plan to convert the carbonate in egg shells to citrate before feeding by soaking in ACV.  Do you know of a reason why carbonate would be better for phos binding then lactate and citrate?

  • Shawna

    After more recent research (about 10 years ago I think) they now know that dogs with kd actually need more protein then dogs without.  And restricting protien too early can actually lead to a quicker death..

    I do agree that when symptoms warrant, protein does need to be restricted enough to alleviate the symptoms but not so drastic as to cause malnutrition.  I use nitrogen trapping to help keep the BUN down so I can feed a higher protein diet :)..  When I found the right combination, I was able to bring her BUN down 10 points.  She also eats a raw, animal based protein diet.

    Her vets were useless (both allopathic and holistic) in helping get her to where she is..  Her allopthic vet, of course, wanted to put her on K/D (when I asked about the ethoxyquin they had no idea what I was talking about).  Her holistic vet gave me one recipe that actually had grapes as a food to feed — it was an old recipe that she had not revised..  If I hadn’t already known about grapes????  None of the vets (4 total) knew anything about nitrogen trapping.  I also posted questions on Monica Segal’s (nutritionist) website and know one there could answer my questions either..

    From Kaliberknl posts, I think I would have enjoyed working with her when trying to figure things out… 

  • JLo

    For those interested, found a website that has listings of trademarks
    owned by Schell & Kampeter, owners of Diamond Pet Food. Some of the
    trademarks are not named, however others are for those switching to new
    products: http://www.trademarkia.com/company-schell–kampeter-inc-1080176-page-1-2

  • JLo

    Reports that two dogs are now clinically confirmed with salmonella. Both live in households where humans became ill. Households fed Diamond. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/05/salmonella-confirmed-in-two-dogs-fed-recalled-pet-food/

  • Kaliberknl

     Sorry – I’m confused…what do you feed yourself?  Are you saying your creat is 8 and anesthesia is a problem for you?  Sadly, cats are often given injectable anesthetics while dogs are more likely to receive inhalants which are easier to titrate.  FWIW,  supplement shakes scare me…I think most whey proteins come from Asia!

  • daisy1999

    I’m going to send you deer hearts on dry ice to save myself from possibly seeing them pickled in my parents fridge next fall!

  • daisy1999

    I feed it to myself! (with Boost supplement shakes to even things out).  So, I think I’m only on 8, but why can’t anyone get my anesthesia right-I have permanent PTSD!  And, my cat died when he was given anesthesia with too high BUN/Cr.  Mine were around normal last check-but then I skipped acual “last check”.

  • doggonefedup

     My youngest dog is a little strange about BARF. He can’t resist catching and eating wild rabbit that wander into his back yard, but, if I try to give him barf rabbit or fresh butchered rabbit he won’t touch it.  If I cook it or just brown the outside a bit e will try to swallow it whole. go figure! He was weened on barf from the breeder. The others don’t care if ts raw, rare, char-broiled, or whatever.  The middle one won’t touch fish…..I guess like humans it’s a mater of taste.

  • Kaliberknl

     No elective surgeries…especially not the transplant…my creat was 15 atm…yep, Hershey rocks :-)  I had about a dozen surgeries over a decade and anesthesia always went well there…it’s more difficult for dogs with less monitoring!  Dog loving nurses probably understand my special concern for feeding toxic Chinese junk to my beloved dogs…

  • Kaliberknl

     Thank you for your service  :-)

  • daisy1999

    If her phos. is good, no need to worry now.  But, if you should have a problem, TUMS are fine.  They only buffer the stomach acid that you have in your stomach.  They don’t impair the production of anything and only have a short term effect.  There are large amounts of pepsin in your gastric juices and its quite stable.  Even though it works best in a very acidic ph, it  isn’t inactive until around 6.5.  And, it also “reactivates” once the ph is back to normal.  I think you are thinking of the H2 Antagonists & PPI,s which are different.  But, if you are worried, just don’t give it near meals.

  • daisy1999

    But remember, we were talking high protein only once you get to the point of needing dialysis or transplant-then the ballgame totally changes.  Even in early stage CRF, protein is usually restricted to some degree in people with concentration placed on consuming high quality, easily digestible, animal based protein-eggs,fish,chicken.  As the disease progresses, the protein restriction will increase.  I’m surprised they did elective surgery on her with kidney disease.  I’m not surprised she was sick.  I’m sure she was having troule clearing the anesthesia.

  • doglover

    YAY!  thank you! i don’t work at Penn, but in another state.

     BUT it’s nice to hear someone saying nice things about nurses!! i am also a nurse.  E.R./ICU (rotating, my choice)  I have also worked on dialysis units in the past, too, loved how we get to really know those ppl so so well.
    GOOD LUCK with your ‘new’ health, Kaliberknl! =)) 

  • doglover

    LOVED your post.

    Raw IS so superior, and feeding raw does require an education, like Jane Anderson’s Raw Feeding site.
    The 80-10-10 raw balance is the one all raw feeders agree on.  Raw feeding does require some info to do it properly, especially if it is sole source of nutrition.And if someone was going to feed *ONLY* homecooked meals, that would also require some research.My impression was that 4beagles planned to buy kibble, and *occasionally* provide some homecooked meals.

    Like humans, not every dog bowl has to provide every needed nutrient.do you think i should be grinding eggshell into a home cooked meal? for a dog who eats kibble on other nights?  I worry about too much calcium….
    GREAT TIPS on the store bought mixtures A&D content and considering the amt of organ meat a Total homefeeder would need.The site YOU link to suggests (among other suggestions) that a homemade daily dog diet includes://2 to 8 ounces cooked grains, pasta, or starchy veggies (no more than half the diet, max)
    Any amount of green or other non-starchy vegetables//
    ^for a COOKED dog meal.(not raw).  
    some of us DO have to add in veggies to make their meat dollar go far enough to feed their dog.

    Giving a kibble-fed dog just a Few homemade meals a week for variety is not that complicated. 
    If one can afford to spend __X__amt on meat for their dog, and it has to go so far, i think adding in fresh veggies IS an okay option, 
    but, if one CAN afford to skip veggies entirely in an Occasional homemade meal for a kibble fed dog, all the better!!!!

  • doggonefedup

    there are three ways to feed bone to you dog.
     first is raw. I dip the bones either with or without the meat into rapidly boiling water for no more than 60 seconds just to kill any bad bacteria and/or germs. 
     second is ground into particles the size of sand. this can be either raw or cooked.
     third is cooked in a pressure cooker. when properly cooked they should crumble easily between your fingers.
    personally I like to give my dogs raw beef rib bones dipped in boiling water, or pressure cooked pork bones & pressure cooked poultry leg and thigh bones.

  • Erich

    For $1.95 you can buy a very good e-book explaining raw food with a great sample recipe.  DogAware.com is a great resource.
     
    http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

  • Kaliberknl

     The entire staff at Penn State Hershey is terrific but heaven holds a special place for their nurses!!!  Thanks for your top notch care and sincere sympathy – it hasn’t gone unnoticed :-)

  • hounddogmom12

    Hi 4beagles,

    That’s great that you want to give your dog some homemade food (although you really should consider raw over cooked)! Anyways, the number one rule is meat + vegetables does not equal a meal for a dog; meat plus vegetables = phosphorus overload. A lot of misinformed people believe you can just throw a dog some hamburger and call it a meal. Dogs need 80% muscle meat, 10% organs, and 10% bone. Unfortunately unless you are going to go raw you cannot feed bone (never feed cooked bone!) and therefore will have an unbalanced calcium to phosphorus ratio. So if you would like to do cooked I would recommend a pre-mix (Sojos, Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Grandma Lucy’s, K9 Critical Care or Dr. Harvey’s) or you can add a powder supplement such as balance it or Wysong’s Call of the Wild or add about 1,000 mg calcium per 12-16 oz of meat to account for the lack of bone. Also, it should be noted that with pre-mixes or balancers that contain vitamin d and vitamin a you probable won’t need to add organ meat. A great educational site is DogAware.com. Also, please consider going raw (you dogs will thank you)!

  • daisy1999

    Why thank you-I used to work there-lol!  Actually, was working there through a different company.  My son is a patient there now-not this second-but yes, great place.  I did see that the transplant/dialysis was rare, but in cases done.

  • doglover

    when i said “do use broth” i don’t use store broth, i am referring to the broth you get by boiling up the meats/veggies in plain water,

     {not canned broth.}

    My homemade dog food is 
    as much meat as i can afford (almost any kind, ham is only one i can think of i won’t use though)fresh veggies
    all boiled up together.
    THAT’S IT.
    Usually, i have to add in some rice or oats to stretch it out cuz of my budget………But, if you can afford to skip grains, GREAT! and if you can decrease the veggie portions and increase MEAT portions, GREAT!!and just freeze it in freezer bags.that’s about it.  and DO “save” and store that broth that you just made, along with the meat/veggie in each freezer bag.

     dog will love the broth too.

  • doglover

    Great idea, to add in homemade dog meals now and then.  Nice thing about cooking for dogs, is,

    it’s SUPER simple, you barely need a cookbook for this.

    I just make a big batch when i can get some meat on sale,
    i cook the meat, and add in some cooked veggies, and usually, some rice or oats to stretch it out further, 
    but, that is just due to my budget.  If you can afford to skip the grains, go for it.  I have to work on strict budget right now.I use any meat……chicken, turkey, beef, venison, deboned fish, pork, whatever is low price that week.  I remove bones (since i do cook my dog food) and most skin, and most fat, too.I have to use about 1/3 veggies, sometimes up to 1/2 veggies in the pot,but, if you can afford more meat /less veggie, all the better.  I always use fresh veggies, too.  Green beans, carrotts, sweet potato, snap peas, whatever.  No onions, of course and no mushrooms.After cooking, (my weird dog refuses raw)i cool it.  I slop it into meal-sized freezer bags,add the broth back in to each baggie,and drop the meal-sized bags into larger freezer bag, and store in freezer.My dog LOVES this lil change up.  
    Gives some variety for him.  I don’t think you need a “cookbook” to make meals FOR DOGS.  Just go for as much MEAT as YOU can afford.
    Dogs do not need spices, salts, etc.  Now, for only RAW feeding, some education IS required, (Jane Anderson’s RAW site is awesome for that) but making some homemade doggie meals, just go for meat and keep recipe as SIMPLE as possible. and do use the broth, too.

  • 4beagles

    Hi 
    I posted the other day that I will be switching from Kirklands Natures Domain over to Fromm’s grain free kibble for our beagles.  I would also like to add or rotate some other food and I am thinking of making it myself.  I would probably go with cooked vs. raw.  Can anyone recommend any good books regarding homemade foods or raw diets?
    Also does anyone have any info/comments about BalanceIT.com.  Thanks

  • Kaliberknl

     Sounds like you’re doing a great job and she is fortunate to have you!

  • Shawna

    The raw I feed has the ideal phos to calcium ratio and is not necessarily “high” in phos..  We tried eggshells etc to cut the total amount of phos she was getting but she had issues with this..  Serum phos has always been on the low side and in proper ratio to calcium. 

    I’m not fond of Tums being an antacid..  From my understanding — Tums would stop or reduce production of hydrochloric acid..  HA stimulates the pepsin which digests protein.  So if Tums was given with a meal protein digestion would be impeded.

    She also gets probiotics and prebiotics for nitrogen trapping.  She gets a product that acts as an oral antigen eliminating the inflammation that occurs in diseased organs, filtered water etc…  Like you, I am careful with nephrotoxins..  I checked the ingredients (MSDS and CDC) of all the products I use around the house and eliminated the ones that were not kidney friendly or unknown..  I don’t apply chemical preventatives and she’s only had her puppy shots and is exempted for life from rabies shot.

    She’s actually very healthy..  She has never required veterinary care — other then blood tests..  No sub-Q fluids, meds etc..

    When her BUN and creatinine begin to rise however — I have a plan of attack already lined up :)…

  • Shawna

    Didn’t know what rumaki was—–had to look it up…  YUMMMMMM  We celebrate the dogs’ birthdays…  I’d give em that for their after birthday dinner treat :)… 

    I do give the pups a little bit of bacon once in a while too..  Always buy the nitrate/nitrite free bacon though for family and pups.  They only get a tiny dime sized bite…

    I’m gonna try your liver treat :)..  My dogs are all quite svelte so I think I’ll add more meat and less veggie but sounds good…(treats don’t make up a significant portion of their diet as I’m not training etc).  Have you tried other veggies?  Wonder if pumpkin would work?  I wonder if the liver could be cut with beef heart to remove some of the moisture?  A friend that does rescue with me gives me free heart and liver every time she gets meat for her family :)…  My boss gives me the heart from the deer he kills for his families food..

    My understanding of the diet of the wolf pack is that the “breeding” pair  (aka the alpha pair) get the prime organs and glands — which are more nutrient rich then the muscle meat allowing for healthier pups..  Not sure that is true but certainly makes sense to me :)..

  • Kaliberknl

     High phosphorous causes awful clinical signs…why not treat now?  Simple supplementation with Tums helps to lower Pho.  Monitoring simple serum albumin levels will tell you if dietary protein intake is matching renal protein loss.  Good luck with your cute pup!

  • Shawna

    Kaliberknl ~~~  SOOOO refreshing to see someone (esp a vet :) mention higher amounts of protein are needed for kd…  The newer studies all point this out but many are still stuck in the old school thinking…

    Audrey, the dog pictured in my avatar, had polydipsia and polyuria first noticed by breeder at about 6 weeks of age.  She was the runt but had FAR more urine output then the biggest, healthiest dog..

    At 9 weeks when I got her she could FILL a potty pad (an expensive one) over night to the point it leaked thru..  I resorted to putting newspapers under the potty pads.  I mentioned this to her vet but she said her eyes were bright, she is smart, good coat and it was normal for puppies to drink and urinate more — I wanted a healthy puppy so let it go..

    At one year of age I took her to the vet to be spayed and blood work was done for the first time.  High BUN, creatinine, small amount of proteinuria etc found..  Went ahead with spay (BAD mistake—-she was SICK for days) and vet said both kidneys were there but maybe a little small and no noticable signs of disease.

    Anyway, Audrey was weaned onto a high protein, raw diet and has eaten that ever since.  I do give extra vitamins and nutraceuticals..  I wouldn’t suggest this to others but I don’t restrict her phosphorus yet either..  She will be 6 years old the end of next month.  Her only symptoms (minus an infrequent sour tummy) is still the excessive drinking and urinating.  However, my daughter and 1 and 2 year old grandkids had to move in with us and I know the extra stress is taking a toll on Audrey..  :(

    Sorry for the book :)

  • doglover

    oh, see, because chicken liver is LOADED with calories, and because i do train my dog daily, and need healthy treats to use,

    i take the chicken liver, beat in green beans,
    and BAKE that.  It’s 1/3 liver + 2/3 green beans.

    It is like a cookie then. but for training, i break each cookie into about raisen sized bits, he doesn’t get whole cookie for each trick, lol, not as much as we train, he’d be a whale!! rofl.
    probably, even using meat alone, would add up to be too many calories for my dog, i sort of “have to” cut treat calories down.  I do occasionally use meat bits, though.

    On days we have trained a lot, i sometimes cut his dinner size back, to adjust for the amt of treats he got in training.
    but, i feel good about it, cuz i know my homemade dog treats are probably healthier than most store bought dog foods.

    Yeah, i don’t lug around “just” liver, i bake it further, after diluting it’s calories down, with green veggie.  It’s not any harder than making a batch of human cookies, reallly, 
    and i only have to whip up a batch about every 3 weeks. Has to be stored in fridge, though, however, these ARE stable at room temp for hours.
    I’ve been making this recipe for YEARS and years, and never ever had a problem, despite zero preservatives in them at all.

    I store the bulk of these Liver Cookies in FREEZER, with just only this week’s supply in fridge.
    If training outdoors on HOT day, i start out with frozen ones.  These Liver Cookies are so so attractive to dogs, dogs will even eat these frozen, too.

  • doggonefedup

     it’s not just the treats!!! I can remember when Kal Kan (pedigree) was a top quality dog food. then they changed the name to pedigee after a lot of breeders started using it. Today I don’t think it is any better than Cadillac. 

  • doggonefedup

     maybe I just cook it to long but liver seems to get a little crumbly for me. and yes all the store bought treats seem to be “gluten time bombs” even most of the jerky treats. that’s why I am glad to find sites like goodnessgracious and happydogplace.  I lost a fantastic dog to cancer a few years back and have been kinda crazy about their diets ever since.

  • doglover

    sorry somehow a link got embedded into my post!! odd.

  • doglover

    Cooked liver is not messy, at all.  

    What?!!  NOt at all, also slices nicely, or even mixes up with a beater.  

    I don’t buy beef liver,
     but, chicken liver, once cooked, is not even slightly messy at all…not at all.thanks for info on jerky….i’ve never bought any ever, nor made any.do give my LIver Cookies a whirl, i’d like to hear what you thought of the recipe, and what your DOGS thought of the recipe.It’s just so hard to find a dog treat that is NOT flour based mess.  Most dog treat recipes, even homemade ones, are flour based, and dogs don’t really need flour, at all.  
    Some homemade dog treat recipes even have SUGAR, salt, spices, etc etc.  Just not good for dogs.SOME homemade dog treats are very much like human cookies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wha?
    and don’t get me started on store-bought dog treats.
    so i just invented my very own treat recipe, just mostly two ingredients, chicken liver + green beans. (or any green veggie).

  • doglover

    OH doggone, i don’t feed my dogs rumaki, just my family, and that is mostly just on holidays, like i said, cuz of calories, and yes, so true, nothing good can be said about bacon!  shiver!!

    I tend to be more vigilant about my dog’s nutrition, than my own, to some extent.  If i eat something stupid, and pay consequences, is one thing,
    but, to be responsible for another creature’s nutrition, i am even MORE careful!

    but YOUR version of rumaki sounds a bit healthier than the traditional one!!  ha ha!!

  • doggonefedup

     rumaki huh? I don’t know about giving the boys bacon, but, you just gave me a great idea! how about replacing the bacon with wafer thin chicken strips hhmmm!   okay i’m gonna try this. Wash and pat dry the liver and cut into bite size chunks, dip in honey wrap with thin strips of raw chicken that’s been rinsed and patted dry. The honey will help keep it all together. then bake at 375F for 15-20 minutes or until the liver is cooked.  I’ll have to try this over the weekend.  Thanks for the idea. I’m always looking for different treats for them so they don’t tired of the taste….

  • Kaliberknl

    In chronic renal failure, the kidneys try to compensate by making more urine.  In end stage renal failure, they are shot and can’t make urine any more or very little.  Pets don’t have enough supportive care to make it that long :-(  PS Dialysis and transplants are extremely rare in pets. PPS  Penn State Hershey’s nurses are the bomb!

  • Eve’sHumanMom

    Most chicken jerky I’ve seen is from China, so I pound chicken breasts flat and microwave them:  less for chewy, longer for crunchy, which I break up into little bite-sized pieces.  How long they take to eat kind of depends on the size and how soft or hard it is.  (softer and smaller are faster.)

  • melissa

    Hi daisy1999-

    I don’t know that I would say it smelled like “cat pee”, but each time I tried to go completely grain free, several of my dogs developed the foulest smelling soft stool imaginable. I have simply decided that some do best with some amount of grains, and the problem has gone away(each time within a day or two of adding back some grains) . I have also had a few spit up water, w/out other symptoms. Wish I could be more help.

     

  • doggonefedup

     good chicken jerky to a dog is like a potato chip to humans. I use quarter size chips. one or two quick chews and its gone. I also like to use thin quarter size slices of beef heart. they are both a lot less messy than liver. The jerky is for all the stops (find, sit-stay, or completion of an exorcise etc) and the heart for most everything else. The beef heart gets sliced like a peperoni after it is cooked.

  • doggonefedup

     good chicken jerky to a dog is like a potato chip to humans. I use quarter size chips. one or two quick chews and its gone. I also like to use thin quarter size slices of beef heart. they are both a lot less messy than liver. The jerky is for all the stops (find, sit-stay, or completion of an exorcise etc) and the heart for most everything else. The beef heart gets sliced like a peperoni after it is cooked.

  • daisy1999

    At Christmas, I make Holiday Dog Cookie Mix Jars for my friends 4-legged kids and regular ones for them.  I get the recipes online.  I layer mason jars with the various ingredients, make pretty recipe cards that I tie around the top with ribbon, attach doggie cookie cutters to the ribbon, put xmas pet material around the seal, then paint the jars with doggie things.  Mix is good for a long time.  When they bake the cookies they can freeze them.  Can’t add fresh meat or veggies though to jar-but maybe when they are making cookies.

  • daisy1999

    Ok, I answered my own question.  Dogs can get dialysis and kidney tranplants.  I guess dogs are different than people in kidney failure in regards to the excessive thirst and urination.  People have the excessive thirst, but little to no urine output.  I know when I had kidney failure, I certainly wasn’t going.  I always felt like the wicked witch of the west with the severe restriction we put on their fluid intake.  I gave them ice cubes so it lasted longer.

  • daisy1999

    That makes sense as to the the inability to properly digest the fat.  My prob.-a little puzzling but I may have an answer.

  • daisy1999

    I know about the simultaneous pee/poo thing, but this is freaky.  Seriously, as a nurse, I can walk into any room and pretty much take a wiff of your poop and a good look at it and tell you whats wrong-as far as if those are abnormal.  Great skill to have, huh?  Yes, we always gave more protein to patients before dialysis since it was depleted during.  But, it was restricted usually before dialysis and transplant needed.  Do dogs get dialysis?  You are right, its usually the yellow once your stomach is totally empty-aka already vomited 100x.  But, my dog only vomited once and her stomach wasn’t empty.  Guess I was thinking of the bright yellow urine we see in liver pts. sometime and the bright yellow diarrhea-but usually bile duct.  Pancreatitis dog had no “normal” clinical symptoms.  Some vomiting for 12 hrs at most.  Very suddenly lethargic.  Rushed to E.D. and had hemmorhagic pancreatitis-shouldn’t be here.  So, he terrifies me.

  • daisy1999

    ok, ok-haha.  Lots of fresh markets around here-I’m sure I can find “China free”.  But, I won’t eat anything with too many bones or that tastes like the ocean ;)

  • daisy1999

    Liver and Onions for dinner-I swear my mom loved to torture me even as a small child ;)  I have a dog allergic to green beans and chicken so out for me.  The other ones I’m sure would love, but I’d feel guilty not giving to allergy boy.

  • doglover

    I’ve never tried giving my dogs jerky, cuz i don’t buy store bought dog treats, and don’t know how to make it.  

    Does the dog have to chew jerky up for a while?

    If so, that might not work for tricks and cue training, agility, doggie dancing/heelwork, etc, cuz i like the dog to get SMALL quick treat, to know “YES! THAT’S IT!” kinda thing, and keep going.  If i had to wait while he chewed it, it’d really slow down some types of training, seems like.
    But i’ve never bought jerky for dogs, it just “looks” unhealthy to me,  
    PLus, because i DO so MUCH daily training, if i am using food for reward markers,
    i have to keep eye on calories…and my Liver Cookies are 2/3 green beans, but, they must “taste like” pure liver, cuz dogs do go nutters about them, all dogs do.  

  • doggonefedup

     yeah my boys love chicken liver too! But chicken jerky is their “doggie crack”. break a couple pieces of jerky in half and it’ll stop them dead in their tracks from 1/2 a football field away!

  • doglover

    OH, and don’t forget to let the dogs lick the beaters, the beaters will be spotless! Takes a dog a lil while to get a beater clean on all surfaces, fun to watch.

    and the bowl, too!  And the colander, too.
    ha.Okay, i’ll stop about my Liver Cookie dog treats now, but, it’s best ever dog treat, imo.  and in my dog’s opinion, too.

  • Kaliberknl

     Ithica is gorgeous but I’m a Penn grad.

  • doglover

    BEEF liver is not appealing to me,

     but we LOVE chicken liver!!  We adore rumaki!  But, because of it’s calorie count, it’s just for holidays and stuff.  You are SO lucky you are not drawn to it, cuz it is so fattening!  (which is WHY i cut it with green beans for treats for tricks training)

    Just Breathe through your mouth when cooking liver, you can  not smell a thing.
    Or rub scented cream under your nostrils.
     If you boil it to use in my Liver Cookie treat recipe (somewhere below) just bring water to boil, and dump entire contents of tub into boiling water, blood and all.

    I save the broth, too, dog LOVES it.  I hear, that in wolf packs, only top dog gets first go at the animal’s liver, so who knows, if some trace of vestigial crave helps make it so irresistible to canines? 
    For real, i have dog lover pals all over the globe making that recipe, and so far, in all these years, i haven’t yet heard of one dog who did NOT go crazy gaggga nutz for my LIver Cookies.

  • doggonefedup

    John was a top orthopedic surgeon as well as a very talented vet.  Cornell University set up a scholarship fund in his memory. We all miss him dearly.

  • Kaliberknl

     No.  I’m sorry he passed.  We are all kindred spirits.

  • Christine A.

    well my last 3 posts are supposed to be replies to people but I don’t see the “in reply to…” link next to the day and time. so if you are reading mine posts and think they are really random it’s just because of that.

  • doggonefedup

     Kaliberknl,
     I understand you are a veterinarian. I was just wondering if you had ever heard of Dr. John W. Whitefield? He was a very close family friend and veterinarian for almost thirty years before passing away. He taught me a lot about dog health.

  • Eve’sHumanMom

    sorry.  that’s 160 Celsius, so about 325 Fahrenheit.

  • Eve’sHumanMom

    Great idea.  Have to try your liver cookies recipe.  I only have one little dog, so I make and freeze the big stuff, but even without a dehydrator you can make small amounts of sweet potato or chicken breast in the microwave.  I cut up a baked sweet potato and nuke it until it is nearly hard.  It will continue to cook, so take it out a little early. 

    With chicken breasts, I pound them flat, line a pie plate with cooking paper or grease with olive oil and nuke them until they get hard or all the way until crispy.

    Also mash equal parts fish and sweet potato with or without a bit of egg,  but like you say, it makes them less crumbly,  pat to 1/4 inch and cut into 1/4 inch fingers.  Bake at 160 degrees about 20-30 minutes until crispy and brown on the edges. 

    So much cheaper.  Only my dog runs to the kitchen whenever I open the freezer now.

  • doggonefedup

    my eight year old German Shepherd has pancreatic insufficiency so his food is always supplemented with Epizyme and every once in a while he’ll get into one of the other dogs dish for some “unsupplemented” food. it gives him a lite colored soft stool but he’s just fine after that. Anyway I like to boil foods for my dogs. For organ meat they get chicken liver, chicken gizzards, beef & veal liver, beef kidney, beef heart, and once in a while pork liver. I don’t dry it out but that’s something to think about. I always save the broth to pour over their dry food to moisten and flavor it. 

  • Kaliberknl

     OH NO, you misunderstood me…I’m glad I AM not always annoying people – ha!

  • Kaliberknl

     PS  Sorry forgot most kidney failure patients also drink a lot and pee a lot.

  • Kaliberknl

     My dogs went grain free w/o any problems but one had some flatulence and soft stools switching to a good grain free (from Core to Orijen).  Animals with pancreatitis have pretty classic signs…anorexic, vomiting, diarrhea.  So do animals with kidney failure…anorexic, vomiting, depression.  Normal stomach acids are yellow.  Bile is greenish and semi solid. I’d just  watch for a recurrence of pancreatitis in the dog previously affected.  Some dogs simultaneously pee and poo…things I don’t discuss with family – ha!   btw, when I was on dialysis, my nutritionist wanted me to eat 9 grams of protein a day or 9 eggs or a 9 oz steak and I only weighed 100#…sick kidneys lose protein which must be replaced by a high protein diet.

  • Shawna

    “Annoyed” —– very sorry if I come off as annoyed…  Not really (most the time anyway), just have a holistic perspective on— well, on everything so am used to defending my comments ;)..  My father is a Naturopathic Doctor and Master Herbalist so my way of thinking is, shall we say, less then conventional… :)

    The vets and human doctors I follow are holistically minded as well so………..  ;)

  • Kaliberknl

     I have a kidney transplant so am probably more suspicious than most of all the nephrotoxins China exports.  Glad I actually contributed rather than merely annoyed    FWIW, some farmed fish is sustainable but not Chinese.

  • Shawna

    That doesn’t surprise me!!  Did you see where they were putting melamine in their baby formulas!!  SICK!!!!

  • Kaliberknl

     Search youtube for some shocking videos on fish farming in China…they feed them melamine!

  • Shawna

    Hey Daisy ~~ Kaliberknl is a vet so probably a better one to address this question…  I will say however that my girl with kidney disease doesn’t have any symptoms like these and is not only grain free but high protein as well..  However, as you know, I feed raw so…  I’ve had a foster dog with a retained placenta that had abnormal BUN (possibly creatinine as well?) and would upchuck water but she also had polydipsia and polyuria..  Audrey’s only symptoms (since birth) have been polydipsia and polyuria too.. 

    Yellow bile is not uncommon and from my understanding happens when the stomach is empty and food is anticipated.

    I wouldn’t get overly concerned about the water being spit up either —– IF it wasn’t a new symptom..  Always have to watch new symptoms in my opinion…

    I do know that yeast die off (they emit a toxin when they die) can cause a whole host of symptoms. 

    Sorry I couldn’t be more help… :(

  • http://www.facebook.com/nleclair1 Nancy LeClair

    LOL thats funny…but we both make good points. Dehydrating…good….in the house bad….best to do outside , garge, tree house, anywhere but a closed up kitchen….

  • Shawna

    LOL ;)  I didn’t think the fish was too bad but the liver is nasty…  Dogs pace under the counter the whole time it dehydrates too :)..  I haven’t done kidneys but was told they are pretty raunchy in the smell department too..  And recently someone mentioned dehydrated green tripe……I’d have to leave the house and stay at a hotel while tripe dehydrated…..  Just saying :)….

  • Shawna

    EXCELLENT point Kaliberknl!!!!!!

    I do make sure not to use farmed fish but didn’t think to mention it….  THANKS for catching and posting that!! :)

  • daisy1999

    Will check back in, need to get back to my current disaster that I was breaking from due to an impending breakdown.  The itching, scooting we were trying to figure out.  Yeast yes in addition to FLEAS, MITES, and TAPEWORMS, from the flea eggs.  Never in my life have my dogs had a flea.  I’m freaking.  So, back to the deinfestation I go.  $500 now and prob. more to come for not preparing sooner :(

  • http://www.facebook.com/nleclair1 Nancy LeClair

    You all are making me want to run out and get a dehydrator right now, LOL. I heard if you dehydrate innards like trachea and such to dehydrate in a well ventelate area as it can cause quite a smell…Ok, I am surfing the web for one right now..Hugs to the “kids” love them lots

  • daisy1999

    Its one of my favorite fish.  If I eat it-they are getting it-lol!  I’m not sure where most of what we get in this area is from but will check into. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/nleclair1 Nancy LeClair

    JLo, thanks a heap. I got it this time..very very imformative although The pet digest part is always very hard to read as an animal lover…UUGGH scary that there actually are folks that feed their dogs these things..Thanks again

  • daisy1999

    P.S. I need some help.  Went off grains, so increased fat and protein.  Now have dog poop that smells like ammonia-aka cat pee.  Oldest also had one episode of vomiting bile.  Pancreatitis dog has “spit up” a little water a few times.  They are acting fine.  So, what I can come up with-kidneys, liver, pancreas, intestinal-bacterial overgrowth,etc.  We know I have one with a damaged pancreas and one with yeast.  Have you heard of this?  Its freaking me out!  The vet techs looked at me like I was nuts and Im not taking 4 in for bloodwork right now.  Ideas, experiences, ANYONE???