The Problem with Dog Food Reviews

Share

Dog food reviews have at least two critical shortcomings. They can never reveal the true quality of the raw materials that were used to make the products they attempt to judge.

And they cannot evaluate the safety with which these ingredients were handled by a company when manufacturing, shipping and storing the finished goods.

So, rating the ultimate “as fed” condition of a specific pet food or predicting product recall events is impossible.

Why It’s Difficult to Control the Quality
of Dog Food Ingredients

Not only do most pet food companies conceal the origin of their ingredients, they also change the sources as well as the quality of those ingredients on a regular basis.

Many raw materials used to make dog foods are bought and sold in commercial-sized lots on the open market.

Bulk prices vary. And so does quality.

From day to day, it’s not unusual for an ingredient to come from a different farm, a different storage facility or a different state.

Even a different country.

Although better companies procure their ingredients directly from trusted manufacturers, others may buy their raw materials through brokers and middlemen.

And many times through less-reputable third party suppliers.

What’s worse, manufacturers are not legally required to report these changes to consumers.

That’s why the method used to review a product is so important.

An Objective Way to Review Dog Food

Although there are many ways to rate a dog food, we’ve settled on using the only reliable information we feel we can consistently trust.

We read and interpret government-regulated pet food labels. Nothing more. And we do this in two simple steps.

  1. We study the ingredients list
  2. We estimate the meat content

As reviewers, we don’t test dog food. We don’t taste it. And we rarely trust marketing hype. Manufacturer’s claims. Or the fancy artwork on the package.

Nor should you.

Nagging Questions Persist

Of course, like everyone else, we still yearn to know more

  • Where do the ingredients come from?
  • Are they food grade? Feed grade? Or agricultural rejects?
  • Are they fresh?
  • Will my dog like the taste?
  • Is the kibble the right size for my pet?
  • Have they been tested for chemical or biological contamination?

These are all legitimate questions. Some of them can be answered by simply visiting a company’s website. Or calling their customer service number.

Yet remember, company information can be biased.. and almost always subject to change.

That’s why we’re reluctant to simply re-broadcast a manufacturer’s marketing message. We fear it could be misleading and provide a false sense of security to our readers.

The Overlooked Value
of Real Life Experiences and Results

Reviews can never predict results. However, there’s one valuable source of information that can help. It’s easy to access. Practical. And yet commonly overlooked.

Our readers comments.

So, be sure to check out the Comments section at the end of each review for a more complete picture of each dog food.

Before you buy.

There you’ll find a wealth of helpful information from our readers — dog owners and breeders as well as community-minded veterinary professionals, nutritionists and dog food companies.

  • Tips and suggestions on feeding
  • Candid opinions about specific dog foods
  • Reports of real life experiences and results
  • Comments about a company’s customer service

Best of all, find out whether our readers’ dogs give a “tails up” or a “tails down” to the taste of a particular product.

So, What Do Our Stars Really Mean?

We tend to dislike dog foods made with by-products of any kind (plant or animal). And we downgrade recipes that use controversial chemicals or plant-based protein boosters.

We recognize that protein fed in excess of the minimum nutritional requirement of an animal is simply burned as energy.

However, we also believe in the commonsense logic of mimicking a dog’s natural ancestral diet — in modeling a dog food after what an animal would naturally consume in the wild.

So, we shamelessly favor dog foods rich in meat.

In general, a five star dog food is one that is high in meat content and free of any by-products, suspicious chemicals or plant-based protein boosters.

So, does that mean a one-star dog food is bad for your dog?

No, probably not. A product with a low star rating isn’t necessarily a bad product. Some dogs can thrive on these recipes.

It’s just that we passionately believe you should know what you’re paying for. And dog foods made with by-products and less meat should be judged for what they really are…

Lower quality products.

The Bottom Line

The reviews published on this website are not intended to suggest that feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet. They should only be used as a tool to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

And remember…

Consumers are forever at the mercy of dog food manufacturers. Even with their well-meaning promises and guarantees, each batch of ingredients can be notably different from the previous one.

The variations in quality of the finished foods can be significant.

So, as a policy, we deliberately avoid reporting the source or the condition of the ingredients mentioned in our reviews.

Safety Problems Are a Certainty

Because of these quality variations, dog food recalls are inevitable, even from the very best companies. No written assurance from any manufacturer (or product reviewer) can ever guarantee safety.

Your best defense? Be sure to check back regularly for all the latest comments, reviews and information about dog food recalls.

And please don’t forget to share what you know about a dog food or a company. Because your knowledge and experience can make a difference.

  • anne

    I used to do business with them many years ago. Had many orders with no problems but then they ran into supply issues and never fulfilled a $500 order. I argued and fought but ended up giving up. Obviously I will not do business with them anymore.

  • Pingback: Dog Food Nutrition Tips | Just Dogs and Cats

  • Patrick Lamberti

    Please, anyone have info on the reputation of “Hare Today-Gone Tomorrow” http://www.hare-today.com

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy
  • Hammer

    Oh, and a valid point……raw, not cooked. Both meat and bones. Bones become brittle when cooked.

  • Hammer

    I’ve gotten to the point that dog food just isn’t worth it. I went back to the way nature intended. Now we just open the door and toss the dog out a pork chop bone and all. She eats, pork, venison, chicken, beef but not bone, organ meat. Before we switched we almost lost her over tainted commercial products. She is now BETTER than before she was sick. Never worry about your dogs teeth or breath again, just give it a raw bone. ~chuckle~

  • Shawna

    There are quite a few incorrect comments in the linked article :(

  • vnannizzi@aol.com

    Received this about Blue Buffalo Pet Foods http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/blue_buffalo.html . Yesterday there was 202 complaints and today 213. There might be something about Blue Buffalo food..

  • Margaret

    Hill’s Science Diet recently reformulated and updated their product, when will you be updating your information about them?

  • Giddyup B

    Look at Horizon Pet Nutrition. Low pricing but great quality. Low glycemic formulas that use lentils and peas and higher meat inclusion levels. They are a family business that sources majoriy of ingredients within 60miles of there factory and no co-packing. I have fed this for a couple years now and very pleased with all my dogs.

  • JellyCat

    Hello Debbie,

    If you dog does have a kidney problem you have to be careful with ash contents in food. There are better quality foods that contain lower ash. Here is an article from Mike that may help you understand ash in the food a little better: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/dog-food-ash/
    If you do need a specific advice on food with lower ash, please ask. It is also important to know whether you dog has a kidney problem.

  • Debbie

    Hope someone here can help. Just changed from Iams to Blue Buffalo but today my Vet say not good for dogs kidney stones blader problem because of the ashe that crystilzes. Has any of u know of this.

  • save A friend

    I wish somebody would have the guts to tell the TRUTH about dog food. this world is full of politicians lies, cheating, crooks, an sex freaks

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Gloria –

    The thing is when saying a certain nutrient is high or low, you need to specify what you are comparing the food to. So Smack Raw’s carbohydrates are high in comparison to what?

    In comparison to a raw diet – yes. My dogs eat a raw diet with maybe 20% carbohydrates.

    In comparison to other dehydrated foods? No – The Honest Kitchen is around 44% carbohydrates, Grandma Lucy’s Artisan is 47% carbs, Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance is 38% carbs, Sojo’s is 58% carbs.

    In comparison to a 5 star grain-free food? They’re about the same – most 5 star grain-free foods are around 30% carbs.

    In comparison to a 5 star canned food? Yes – most 5 star canned foods are well under 30% carbs.

  • Gloria

    In reference to the Smack Dog Food Line with the carbohydrate contents being 30% I was told was very high, any comments or did I misinterpret something

  • http://www.befreebies.com/ BeFreebies.com

    Thanks for the info. My 1-year-old puppy is sick now, and the vet suspects bad dog food. :(  By the way, there are some links to free pet food samples here: http://www.befreebies.com/pet-samples-freebies.php

  • Pingback: What do you feed your yorkie? - Page 3 - YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community

  • Pattyvaughn

    How fun!!  You’re going to have to give us a picture!!

  • taosmeister

    Well the two young ones are here. the two old men look at them with distain…..too much action, too much play fighting, too much whining and howling, but I think they will get a long once they have grown a little. They show some interest, but overall they ignor them, although one of the guys stays with with me to keep an eye on them. It is funny the little ones so want to go and play with the big boys but they just walk away or bark at them when they get to wild. Lots of work keeping the now 9 week old ones on a path of potty training. So far only acouple of poop accidents, they howl when they need to go. Peeing is obviously still some time from being trained with their little bladders and weak bladder control. So far so good, and the girl seems to be the one who will be running the show. She is smaller than the boy but she crats all these games of hunting and killing things and draws the boy into playing. It is like a little nature movie in our living room.

  • Johnandchristo
  • Johnandchristo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZhFbkfGYq90#!

    Shawna I liked the video, this popped up next it was also very interesting

  • Shawna

    There is a video showing wolf puppies picking and eating wild berries..  Pretty cute..  I agree about corn though!!!! 

    I don’t know the context behind the video (wild or captive wolves etc)?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmuYTb6ynbg

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Yeah if you’re going to feed the orijen I’d go with an all meat canned food or just add fresh cooked or raw meat because there is calcium added to complete and balanced canned foods. A balanced food has to have enough calcium added to balance the phosphorus in the meat – between a 1:1 and 2:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. By adding plain meat you will dilute the calcium in the dry food and bring the c:p ratio closer to 1:1 – but keep the additional meat topper to 20% or less of the meal. Green tripe is great because it has a naturally balanced 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio (all other meat is high in phosphorus but contains no calcium) but has low levels of both minerals (only about 0.3%). So no matter how much tripe is added to the kibble the c:p ratio will remain in balance.

  • taosmeister

    Darn I ment at least 38%, should read my post before pressing “post as”. The Orijen has between 1.5-1.7% Calcium, which I guess will be reduced by the addition of wet food. Anyway, thanks a lot for your input. I guess by adding the wet food I will also increase the protein percentage. Personally, I never understood the issue about proteins. As far as I am aware wolves do not go out for a good session of growing and harvesting corn and an afternood walk to pick berries. 

  • Hound Dog Mom

    There is no scientific evidence of high protein diets causing growth issues in large breed puppies that I am aware of nor have I ever heard of a large breed puppy experiencing growth issues due to high protein. Feeding a large breed pup a diet with only 28% protein would be doing the pup a big disservice nutritionally – imo. What does cause growth issues: 1) Excess calcium 2) Overexercising 3) Overfeeding 4) Poor genetics. Most nutritionists/vets recommend around 3.5 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. (equates to roughly 1.3% calcium and under). My newest bloodhound pup is eating a controlled calcium raw diet (about 40-50% protein, 30-40% fat, 10-20% carbohydrates). Orijen is a wonderful food, I used to feed it when I fed kibble, but all of their formulas are much too high in calcium for a large breed puppy in my opinion. I know I wouldn’t feel comfortable feeding them to any of my hound puppies. Their large breed formula actually contains more calcium than the regular puppy formula as well. Below are some articles that may interest you.

    This is an article on nutritional risks for large breed dogs:

    http://portais.ufg.br/uploads/66/original_Racas_grandes.pdf

    “Currently no evidence exists to suggest that protein intake contributes to the development of orthopedic disease in growing large breed puppies.”

    This is a study of the effects of high protein diets on large breed puppies:

    http://acana.com/sites/default/files/High_Protein_and_Large%20Breed_Study.pdf

    “It is concluded that in this study the differences in protein intake did not effect the occurrence of disturbed skeletal development in young great danes.”

    And if you read this article by Dr. Mike with the video by Dr. Becker you’ll see Dr. Becker explain the dietary links to developmental problems, she explains that high protein does not cause issues.

    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nutrition/hip-dysplasia-dogs/

  • taosmeister

    How come there are several reports out there and many of the manufactures have a lower protein content in their kibble for large dogs? I was aiming at about 28% protein. I will change their current food from Iams puppy to Orijin puppy for large breeds and give them some canned food either Solid Gold puppy of Kirtlands canned food. Good plan, or any other suggestions?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Taosmeister –

    Large breed puppies do not need lower protein content. They need lower calcium content. Look for foods with 1.3% calcium or less. If you’re just using canned as a topper it shouldn’t matter as much, any of the 4 or 5 star canned foods should be fine.

  • taosmeister

    Just a quick question. What is the “best” wet food for large breed puppies? I have a pretty good handle on the kibble and know that large breeds need a lower protein content, so that they do not go through “damaging” growth spurts. Any idea? 

  • Pattyvaughn

    Maybe it will give them a new lease on life!

  • taosmeister

    They look like Malamuts with floppy ears…..walks and walks and walks. The old ones are chilled out. I hope they do not get all pissed at the young and pesky ones…….

  • Pattyvaughn

    WOW, that’s a big change!! I would love to see pictures of your whole crew.  What do you do to entertain 4 Maltrievers?  Have them pull your car as they fetch the ball?

  • taosmeister

    This is going to be a trip. We have two 11.5 year old “Maltrievers” and will be getting 2 8 week old brother and sister “Maltrivers” this weekend. Feeding the lot will be fun. The old ones get a mix of home made, kibble, wet etc and the young ones will be changed from Iams Puppy to Orijen Large Breed Puppy. I wonder who is going to wander into who’s bowl…..Hope they will get along.

  • Doggonefedup

    Sorry Patty, That was just my warped sense of humor popping up….(herpes)…..

  • Herpes

    Hi Patty,
    I tried several times to post on the “Dr. Karen Becker: How to Choose a Good Dog Food” thread and finally gave up and posted as “its-a-me” from my wifes computer. It seems if I try to post with more than one link I get pushed into the spam filter until I email Dr. Mike and tell him about it.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Hi doggone,

    My warped sense of humor is popping up majorly at your predicament.  I just want to flag your comment “Mike, we’ve got someone posting under multiple names!!!”  I hope it rights itself soon.  Frustrating!!

  • DOG-GONE-FED-UP

    Cold pressed in general is better than hot extruded. But it really depends on how the individual ingrediants are processed. Granulated is way better than either since it doesn’t require the binders that cold pressed and kibble require.

  • Sefl Miroslav

    Hi, i can the best food for my puppy (border colia)  and now I must choose dog food between extruded dog food and cold-pressed dog food. What  your opinion on cold-pressed method manufacturing dog food? Is better then extruded dog food? 

  • doggonefedup

    I would think Marydoggins would first need to talk with a dog nutritionist then talk with a manufacturer, but one would need to know what she was trying to do before she can be pointed in the right direction. different foods may require different experts to be involved.                     

  • taosmeister

    I would suggest that you are only going to a big manufacture once you have your idea sorted and patented….just a thought

  • doggonefedup

    Where are you located?  There are several accross the country. Without revealing too much, what is your dog food idea?

  • taosmeister

    This is an one of the few chances where you can strike out for yourself…..The last thing you want to do is get in bed with a big manufacturer bevore you have your ideas hatched and protected

  • Marydoggins

    Does anyone know of a great dog food manufacturer that can help me create my dog food idea? 

  • taosmeister

    The heart is indeed one of the leanest muscle (well prey animals are usually lean) you can get and tripe is a muscle (people just need to think about stomach cramps). I guess this is one of the reasons why I love to eat heart stews, tripe milanese and game. I love the lean meat over the “industrial” produced meats. I often mix in chicken, especially when you can get them at 99 cents a pound. The guys “Maltrivers” (Malamute and Retriver Mixes) are now 11.5 years old and still bright and sparkly, demanding to be walk for at least 45 minutes twice a day.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Organs from quality sources are a healthful and necessary addition to a homemade diet. However, they shouldn’t be the main component. A prey animal is approximately 80% muscle mat/10% organ meat (no more than 5% liver)/10% bone – a homemade diet should be prepared in approximately these proportions. Heart and tripe are considered muscle meat.

  • taosmeister

    One should not forget who gets what out in nature. The alpha wolves tear first throught the inerds, like liver, heart etc, which are the high quality meats of an animal. I actually cook food for my dogs on a regular basis and it is the heart, liver, kidneys and tripe I boil up with sweet potatoes and barley. The dogs love it so much they look at me with their dogge eyes when it is only kibble they get…..

  • Pattyvaughn

    Organs are considered by-products. Quality by-products are actually good for your dog. The problem is what they go through before they make it into food and what made it in with them. People eat breasts, wings, thighs, legs, livers, gizzards, and some hearts from a chicken. What is left? The back, intestines, some hearts, heads, necks, and feet. If they don’t sort out parts then the whole mess together becomes chicken by-product meal before it goes to dog food manufacturers. And even then if it were fresh I would still be willing to feed a lot of that stuff to my dogs. But they let it sit around and get old and nasty and then cook it at a high enough temp to kill off what they let grow on there and every other good nutrient that was left.

  • Amy

    Is liver considers a bi-product? I think the muscle and tissues can all be defined under the whole meat (ie “chicken “) and its things like beaks, feet, hoofs, bones, and other unusable parts considered bi-products. I could be wrong.

  • doggonefedup

    Beef would have to be cooked at a different temp/time than fish. Granular doesn’t have to be cooked the second time, and doesn’t need the higher temps associated with the extrusion process like most kibbles. I say most because some use a different process that uses a slightly lower temp, or so I’m told. so use the minimum temp/time on each item and cause less “damage” to the others…

  • Shawna

    In a “normal” kibble, the meats/etc are processed to remove the water and fat content.  Then are processed a second time when combined with the other ingredients to form the kibble.  They are cooked twice..  In a kibble meals are necessary to get the higher protein contents (from animal sources) though.

    In a granular product it would seem to me that they could start with whole fresh meats and dehydrate or cook or freeze dry them on site and combine them with the final product.

  • doggonefedup

    if you are talking meals vs meats. wouldn’t it be better to process fish into meal and process beef into meal then combine them as opposed to combining the fish and the beef then processing them into meal?

  • InkedMarie

    My husband’s perfect day!

  • Shawna

    I’m not sure I understand what you mean here (in reference to my post)?

  • InkedMarie

    I wish I could hear how the rest of Tova’s life went. The article was from 1998 so I assume she has long since passed away

  • Shawna

    Gluten is used to identify the protein content of several grains (wheat, barley, rye, corn, rice etc).  However gluten is further broken down into sub-proteins—-gliadin is the protein (glycoprotein) in wheat that is so problematic.  “Gluten” however has become synonymous with the problematic part of wheat.  Yet corn “gluten” can be fed to pets that can’t tolerate wheat. 

    In all honesty though, I don’t know if white rice has differing proteins then brown rice?  AND there are various types of white rice.  Glutionous rice (aka sushi rice) as an example is an unprocessed white rice.  I wonder why they feel the need to include a grain at all though?  Grains are certainly not species appropriate and rice still has the problems that other grains have — phytates etc.

    I’m assuming that they use safflower oil for its omega 6 content which isn’t found in coconut oil and palm fruit.  But I prefer those oils too..  It used to be that you could find cold pressed high quality safflower oil but I don’t see it any more (Spectrum used to have one)..

    I like Brothers for that reason too..  Also I think Brothers (due to storage and lack of middle men) is one of the few foods that, imo, has more stable fats..  I will say that the lard that Abady uses should be a very stable fat!!

  • doggonefedup

     Shawna,
    With “meals” each animal protein is processed separately with correct temps for each, then combined. with “fresh” all the proteins are combined then processed at the same temp which may be to high for some of them.  :-]

  • Johnandchristo

    I wish I lived closer lol, sound’s like fun!

  • doggonefedup

     A good dog a good beer and a peaceful fishing hole on a lazy afternoon…………

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Doggone……….

    I like the idea of Vallhalla, only with our old dogs! The Norse afterlife is all fighting and drinking, I’ll trade the fighting for the dogs, lol.

  • doggonefedup

     Rice protein used to be referred to as “rice gluten” because it reacted in much of the same ways as wheat gluten in carnivores. And I would rather see coconut oil and palm fruit oil in place of  Safflower oil, and maybe add the biotics.
     The attention to gut health is why I like Brothers. and  by using both Brothers and Abady in a dogs diet you are creating an unbeatable combination. In My Opinion

  • doggonefedup

     Shawna, check your email.

  • doggonefedup

     John,
    The pics are just fine. I can see he was a good sound (working) dog and not a half crippled tail dragging over angulated beauty queen. Handsome dog. I know how you feel. I still miss all my boys. They were all special to me in their own way and I still glassy eyed when I think about them. It makes me happy and sad at the same time.

  • Shawna

    That is an AWESOME story!!!  Chiropractors are the BEST!!!

    I can’t find an ingredient list for the granular products?

    I want to like this food Doggone!!  I really do—-because you like it if for no other reason..  I just can’t get past a few ingredients :(   Maybe they aren’t in the granulars though?

    I also find most of the data on their website to be utter nonsense :(   They go on and on about the WDJ’s stance on by-products and how higher protein could not be achieved without them???  They state that white rice is superior to brown rice cause brown rice contains gluten — WHAT???  I can’t find a nutritional analysis on the food either?  Too many unresolved questions..

    PS — I’m not AT ALL opposed to quality by products..  I feed them as part of a nutritious diet to my own.  But, they are a small part of the overall diet.  Muscle meat makes up the largest part of the diet..

  • Johnandchristo

    Hears Freya, never to far from her fave “dog biscuits”

  • Johnandchristo

    Maybe these will be clearer.

    Sorry they are worse.

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Doggone,

    Your dogs are beautiful, this is my German Shep, Boss.
    He has been gone since 1994. I still miss him. He was about 10 months old in this picture. I took a picture of a picture, so its not that great of a shot.

  • doggonefedup

    Rin Tin Tin,  or Strongheart……..
    step aside Lassie. ;O}

  • doggonefedup
  • Betsy Greer

    : ) 

  • Betsy Greer

    I guess I think they look like movie stars because they both look like they could’ve been the lead in Rin Tin Tin. 

  • doggonefedup

    Thank you,
    Those two GSD’s were born in the mid 70′s and lived well into the 90′s. I have been around GSD’s my entire life, and can’t imagine being without one. 

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Beautiful dogs doggone. I grew up with a gsd – got her the summer before I started kindergarten and had her until my senior year of high school, she was an amazing dog. gsds are a close second for me after bloodhounds, if I ever do get another breed it will probably be another gsd.

  • doggonefedup

    Hound Dog Mom,
    My apology I completely missed your post. Abady Granular food is closest to a kibble but completely different at the same time. Granular looks like a brown sugar or course sand. Unlike kibble they can process each ingrediant using minimum required temp for each instead of one super high temp for everything. then they combine it all and air dry it without a lot of heat. to form the kibble you must subject the entire wet formula to a certain amount of heat that is not needed to make a granulated product. Abady suggests mixing with their raw food, but, it can be feed by itself jut like any kibble. It works well in a kibble, fresh, canned (KFC) diet.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    I could tell by their site (Abady) that they evidently weren’t thrilled about what The Whole Dog Journal had to say about their products.  

    There’s something to be said for unconventional wisdom.

  • doggonefedup

    Orijen has “russet potato” in it Why?
    Carna4 has potato starch in it  Why?
    These are supposed to be the two super premium dog foods in Canada which has more strict requirements than USA. and they both contain something that is not good for dogs. 

  • doggonefedup

    Yes very surprising.  The Whole Dog Journal did a reveiw on Abady an gave it a low grade. Then they did a story about a dog that was nursed back to health on Abady and had nothing but praise to say  about the food. Abady was saying things 25yrs ago that others are just starting to say today. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    I’ve been reading the site.  There’s definitely lots of information here:  
    http://therobertabadydogfoodcoltd.com/index.html.  The concept is definitely different than what I’ve learned about here as the profile of a “typical” 5 star food.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Ooohhh!  I remember these pictures!  They look like movie stars!  Just gorgeous.

  • doggonefedup

    Betsy,
    These two dogs were raised on Abady dog food.

  • doggonefedup

    some of the online stores include doggiefood dot com,   1800whiskers dot com, and fordogsake dot com 

  • doggonefedup

    their granular looks kinda like a cross between brown sugar and course sand.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer
  • doggonefedup

    Betsy,
    There are mixed reviews about Abady dog foods. Those that have never used it don’t like it because they use by-products in their food. Those that have used it swear by it. Robert Abady formulated to the best of my knowledge the first commercial raw diet. They also by-passed the problems that occur with most of the kibble made today by making a granulated food, which allows them to process each ingredient separately at the appropriate temperature and then combime them nto the finished product. As far as kibbles or dry food go I really like the results I’m seeing with Brothers, but, Abady fills the gap with canned and raw. As far as reviews go Abady is not that impressive. In fact as far as most reviews go Abady scores poorly because of the bad rap by-products have in todays market. But, think about this everything on the outside of the skeleton is considered high quality meat and every thing inside the skeleton is considered by-products. Which part do wild k-9′s eat first? Some of the claims they make sound far fetched but they also have documentation over a twenty year period to back up their claims, and it was done by somebody else. Go to their website and read read read. Think about the prey diet, the raw diet, etc when reading. Robert Abady had it figured out before many of the top companies even existed. How many use white potato in their foods, and why? Dogs have no reason to eat white potato. I could go on for hours comparing and putting it into the proper perspective, but the best advice I can give you is read their website, and if you have any questions call them. I personally used their food for over twenty years. I only stopped because I lost my source when the store closed.    

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    I read that on their site also… granular food.  There were no pictures though.  They mention something about the granular quality helping to clean teeth.  I pictured Grape Nuts.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Now that Betsy has brought up Abady, I did want to ask you before but forgot, what is granular food? I’ve seen you mention it and seen people rave about it on other sites, but based on Abady’s site can’t quite figure out what it is. Is it like THK consistency? Do you add water to reconstitute? I’m very curious to know.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    Hi Doggone,

    I’m a little confused.  I know I’ve read where people have mentioned Abady foods, but I never looked for a review.  I found the company’s website and I think I thought before they were a manufacturer than produced foods for some other company under a different name or something.  Anywho, are Abady foods reviewed on DFA?  I can’t find it.  It sounds like an interesting food and I’d like to read more about it.  

    One question, is lard really something that’s healthy?  

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    CinamonPuff,

    Your mention of specific products and topics along with your unique behavior and posting style fits the same pattern exhibited by a previous visitor known for using fictitious identities to deceptively mislead and provoke others.

    According to our commenting policy:

    “…the use of multiple identities or other deceptive tactics designed to mislead readers are strictly forbidden.

    So, if we suspect you’re posting fraudulently, be prepared to verify your email address or to confirm your real name by providing your Facebook, Twitter or other recognized social media identity.”

    Please respond to the email I just sent you and follow the instructions it contains.

    Until I’m genuinely convinced you are a legitimate individual working with credible objectives, your recent comments here have been temporarily deleted.

  • doggonefedup

    cinnamonpuff,
     Thank you for your concern. But, I’ve already found a cure, and Horizon Pet Nutrition seems to confirm my decision. Just don’t use Legacy as part of my dogs diet. Brothers and Abady foods are the most appropriate foods that I have found for my dogs. I am having better results with Brothers Kibble in the short time I have been using it than any other brand. I am satisfied. It is working for me and my boys, what more do I need to know?  

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    I’m beginning to wonder why I’ve been so darn tired in my 30′s not to mention the thinning hair!!!  How is anyone supposed to know about boiling for 30 minutes???  I eat them raw or in a steambag from the microwave in 5 minutes!!!  But this is not about dog food so…

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Shawna, 
    I’m reading all these posts.. HMMMM I am getting a strong sense of deja vu . Who was it? Dug someone? I’ll remember.they were always emailing Champion? I dont know if you have ever seen Sponge Bob, but there is a character on the show that is always trying to discredit and steal Mr Crabs recipe (His name is plankton). I think we are seeing a real life version of this here. Every week the screen name changes but its the same story line. Only now they have to be careful cause they get banned a lot, lol. I picture a little tiny person repeating the line like a mantra, I’ll get that Brothers formula I’ll get it. 

  • Shawna

    Good point Sandy…  From what I’ve found, different heating techniques have different effects — steaming has little effect while boiling is better as it heats the food at its core more efficiently (not sure how baking or extruding would compare). 

    I’m pretty sure in Dr. Becker’s recipe book that she suggests the cooking of crucifers and I KNOW she suggests limiting their consumption to 3 or maybe 4 times per week….

  • Shawna

    Cinnamonpuff ~~ not quite sure why you are taking this so personal? 

    I have repeated several times that crucifers are very nutritious, help with cancer and that I LOVE brussel sprouts..  I’ve also stated several times that I am simply suggesting caution..  As a rotation feeder I would suggest that foods be rotated anyway (be it kibble or raw). 

    I could have posted the entire article from Weston Price but was addressing your comment about steaming.  And for the record, broccoli is not the only crucifer in the food (as I mentioned in my very first post).

    Additionally, I have stated that my iodine deficiency was not caused by crucifers nor do I believe Doggone’s dogs issues were likely exclusively crucifers but they DO add to a deficiency.  I also mention bromide as well as fluoride being the cause or contributing factors.

    What food did I promote?  I don’t remember doing that?  Hidden agendas emerge very quickly Cinnamonpuff.  Everyone here on DFA knows what my agenda is :) ..  Now I think we need to question yours.  It is so very similar to so many that have come before you…

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Does any kibble-making plant actually boil anything for 30 minutes?  I thought kibble just comes out through an extruder and there’s some steaming involved somewhere?  Wish they’d make a show on a dog food plant on “How it’s Made” or one of those type shows.

  • cinnamonpuff

    I emailed Horizon Legacy and asked them about Legacy and Hypothyroidism and EPI they responded-

    Hi Cindy,Thanks for your question and your concern. The issues around EPI and hypothyroidism are complex as they are both part of the endocrine system and many factors can affect the functioning of this system. Some of these can be environmental, some can be nutritional or most likely combinations of both. The endocrine is robust however there are circumstances where things can come up.We have heard of other dogs with EPI that are doing well on Legacy, and there are solutions available to assist with enzyme replacement. If your dog does have EPI, I would suggest you contact me and I will see what I can do to assist to make sure your dog is receiving all the nutrition possible from Legacy.Hypothyroidism is more complex and more difficult to determine the root cause as genetic factors can also play a role beside environmental and nutritional. Foods like broccoli and bok choy are goitrogens which can inhibit iodine uptake, however cooking inactivates the goitrogens in all cases except soy (which there is none in any food we make). Also, most every ingredient in Legacy would be considered a source of iodine so it was probably some other cause. I believe there may have been a slight alergic reaction or that the food just did not completely agree with the dog to cause the aggressive behaviour. That is unfortunate but I am glad the person found a food that works for their German Shepard.I have absolute faith in the quality of the ingredients we use in Legacy and in the manufacturing process which we have developed. On occasion, a food does not work for a dog, but if you are feeding Legacy and it is working for your dog, you should not have any concerns feeding Legacy for the life of your dog. Please don’t hesitate to contact me if you have further questions or concerns.Best regards,Jason– Jason SkotheimHorizon Pet Nutrition306 270 4343

  • cinnamonpuff

    Shawna- Thanks for suggesting I research a little deeper! Here is what I found on Weston Prices website.

    http://www.westonaprice.org/basics/bearers-of-the-cross 

    It does say this-

    “Steaming crucifers until they are fully cooked reduces the goitrogens to one-third the original value on average”

    But you left out this-

    “Boiling crucifers for thirty minutes reliably destroys 90 percent of the goitrogens.”

    You also mentioned nitriles. But you left out this-

    “ A 2004 study conducted in Japan suggested that massive doses of nitriles, doses that are impossible to obtain from food, would be required in order to result in toxicity”

    Why are you choosing only the facts that make broccoli look bad and not the facts that show that Broccoli’s iodine issue IS stopped by cooking and that nitriles must be consumed in HUGE doses to cause toxicity?

    The quotes I showed above where taken from Weston Price’s own website. Do you have a hidden agenda to trash Horizon Legacy and promote some other food?

  • doggonefedup

    I can see the caption now….in a deep raspy voice…. They want Jelly Beans for Easter! I’ll give’em jelly beans! Heh Heh Heh wait’ll they taste these!

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Funny or freaky!!!

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    I have fed many brands to the pugs I have and foster over the years.  They haven’t had any issues with BB Wilderness, Merrick Classic, Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream, Natures Variety Prairie, Natures Variety Instinct, Dogswell Nutrisca Salmon, Horizon Amicus, Core Ocean, Brothers Complete Red Meat, Great Life Grain Free Salmon.  They all had solid output on those foods. The lastest food I’m using on the fosters is Nutrisource GF Heartland Select this week and so far so good.  Feed your little guys a variety.  Don’t get stuck on one brand or flavor. 

  • Shawna

    I couldn’t find where it specifically said it had all 8 but that would be a better E supplement then one with tochopherols only and much better then one with alpha tochopherol only.  It’s definitely extracted from foods.. :)

    Natural News states that palm fruit oil (as in the NOW product) is one of the richest sources of tocotrienols.  They also say it is the best source

    “Although tocopherols are generally sufficient for meeting minimum vitamin E levels and maintaining an average level of good health, there is far more to be gained from getting the full range of both tocopherols and tocotrienols. Rice bran oil, wheat germ, barley, oats, coconut oil and palm kernel oil all contain one or more types of tocotrienols as well, however none besides palm fruit oil contain all four types. http://www.naturalnews.com/028941_tocotrienols_palm_fruit_oil.html#ixzz26wIPojPg

    Eating a wide variety of minimally processed healthy foods will supply all the different forms too :) .

  • doggonefedup

    Shawna and HDM,
     Thank you I think either will work. My 7yr old just got over an enlarged prostate. So I’m thinking it would be a good idea to add a little more E…

  • Hound Dog Mom

    If this is what you’re talking about, this is what I give my dogs:

    http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Vitamins/Vitamin-E/M012531.htm

    It has alpha, beta, gamma, and delta tocopherols and gamma, alpha, beta gamma tocotrienols.

  • Shawna

    The only way to get all 8 forms of vitamin E is to take whole food supplements  — some sources are wheat germ oil and Garden of Life RAW E (has 7 of the 8).  I’m sure there are more I am not aware of.

  • doggonefedup

    just wondering… does any one sell a
    vitamin E-complex? or is it only available from natural sources?

  • Shawna

    Research just a little deeper cinnamonpuff.. That is correct but there is more to the story.

    Cooking crucifer veggies does lower (but NOT eliminate) the goitrogens.  Weston Price states that boiling (forget which crucifer was mentioned) for 20 minutes eliminates 1/3 of the goitrogens (leaving 2/3 still intact).

    By the way, Weston Price also talks about another problem with crucifers — nitriles. 

    However, I do agree that crucifers (eaten in moderation) are extremely healthful!!!  I LOVE brussel sprouts and during the winter eat them several times per week.  Not so fond of broccoli and cauliflower though.  I do eat fermented cabbage and kohlrabi as well, but as a condiment.

  • Dog Food Ninja

     Hi, H Mills.  If they are doing well on Blue Wilderness, I see no reason to change.  It would appear that Blue recently changed their Wilderness formula to use tapioca starch rather than potato starch.  There is still potato in it, just very far down the ingredients list.  I would caution that even with rotating Wilderness, you will never get them completely off of chicken, as all 7 formulas contain chicken. 

  • Shawna

    LOL :)

    I don’t know as much about krill but I do believe it to be safer.  Krill would not be contaminated with mercury as they are at the bottom of the food chain.  The higher up and the longer the fish lives the higher the chances of contamination.

    Krill oil naturally has asthataxin (sp?) which is an antioxidant and would thus protect from rancidity just as vitamin E (from my understanding it is even more powerful then E).

    I have NO idea as to the EFA to DHA ratios of krill?

    Have a Heini for me too :)   I actually prefer wine or mixed drinks — lemon or chocolate martini YUMMM

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Shawna thats good info. Do you think krill oil is any safer? Feeding the sardines is most certainly the best idea, you just cant beat mother nature. thanks for the info. I’ll have to open a tin, and crack a Heinikin lol.

  • doggonefedup

    Beer is good for a dog too! the alcohol is mild enough for their systems and is the best gluten flush there is. That reminds me of the fermenting fruit trees in Africa. It was a documentary showing how, many different breeds of animals (even mortal enemies) would all go to eat the fermenting fruits and get blind stinking drunk! Almost as funny as Sandy’s “purebread” pug! 

  • InkedMarie

    rofl! I have nowhere else to post this here since we have no forum yet but anyone who reads Dog Fancy, look at the winners of the look alike contest in the November issue….if you’ve seen my picture here, you may recognize someone

  • doggonefedup

    InkedMarie,
    Sorry,Marie, I wasn’t talking about you, it was a just metaphor. Besides, I would’ve said crackers….I meant breeding. LOL! 

  • H Mills

    I have two Min Pins. My male is going on 5 years old and my female is 1 1/2. Both have sensitive stomachs and skin issues which is quite common.  I started feeding both Blue Wilderness, but I don’t know if it the right food for them.  I used Innova for a while until P&G bought them.  Any suggestions on what these two little guys should eat?

  • Shawna

    I go through stages lasting about 5 to 7 years.  Right now I am in the not as healthy as I could be eating stage…. ;)

    Research adrenal fatigue or low adrenal.  Sugar cravings is a symptom of adrenal issues.  The adrenals can become sluggish during times of stress or anxiety.  Although those babies are a blessing in your life, I know from living with my grandkids that they can also be a MAJOR stressor and source of anxiety.  Not to mention another important and wonderful but often times stressful event that recently happened in your life. ;)

  • InkedMarie

    Yep, that is definitely purebread.

  • Shawna

    The problem with fish oils — they are often contaminated with mercury (and sometimes other contaminants).  There are only a few products for humans I would feel comfortable using myself or for my pups..  Additionally, vitamin E needs to be added to both liquid AND (from my understanding) capsuled omega 3 products to prevent rancidity before consuming AND after ingesting.  I’ve read (Dr. Blaylock I beleive) that most products don’t have enough E to be beneficial (of those that even include it).  Lower quality products are likely not going to have (per Blaylock) the correct ratio of EFA to DHA as well.

    Feeding sardines eliminates all of the above issues.

    Note — There may be more companies out there making a good product then when I initially researched this — 5 or 6 years ago…???

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Ninja….

    I saw beer for dogs, (non alcoholic) on the Brothers web site. Under other brands, Bowser Beer, cock-a-doodle brew. I think it is 109$ a case. Although I would more likely just go with fish oil myself, lol. 

  • Johnandchristo

    Hey Shawna..

    Good news about beer! LOL . Just to add a more info hear, salt water fish, as cod, perch, seabass and haddock contain a much higher level of iodine than shrimp or lobster. So if eating shell fish remember to drink twice as much beer!

    Cabbage, brussel sprouts and nuts are among some the foods that block the body’s consumption of iodine.

    Fish oil contains high levels of iodine. so adding fish or say salmon oil to a dogs diet cant be a bad idea.

  • Dog Food Ninja

    oh, and thanks everyone for the info.  :-)

  • Dog Food Ninja

     Lol!  Actually, my wife would love that news.  As you know, I primarily eat Paleo, save for the fact that I cheat almost EVERY NIGHT by drinking beer.  :-)   I am about to go strict Paleo for 30 days with a friend of mine who wants to lose some weight, so I’ll be suddenly cutting out the drinking.  :-/  I’m a little sad by this, as I thought I was becoming a pretty solid functioning alcoholic… :-D
    JK, but seriously, I’m looking forward to the detox.  My body feels worse and worse the more often I cheat and eat a cookie or have Chinese food, yet despite knowing that’s what the problem is, I want to eat it more the more often I cheat.  It’s really quite amazing.   So, since I won’t be drinking beer for a while and, obviously I can’t give my dog beer, and I don’t do dairy, I guess we will be adding more seafood.  How about muscles and clams?  I eat them when ever I get a chance.        

  • Shawna

    OH MY GOSH Ninja, you are going to LOVE what I just found (not sure if your wife will though).

    The the chart of iodine rich foods in the following link (not sure of accuracy :) it shows that “beer” (and milk) is the most iodine rich of the foods listed (including seafoods)..  Go figure.

    Sardines would be a good source for dogs — low in mercury, good source of omega 3 etc.. 

    http://www.jctonic.com/include/minerals/iodine.htm

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Check out this “purebread” pug :)

  • Shawna

    It depends Ninja..  Those that live in the “goiter belt” (like I do) may not get enough if eating locally grown/raised foods–even properly grown/raised.

    Eggs, dairy, strawberries etc are good sources but in addition to excess crucifers, drinking fluoridated tapwater, as one example, can prevent proper absorption/utilization (as can bromides in some breads – which would not be in your diet of course :) .

    I don’t remember the specifics but those that warn of iodine deficiency state that the RDA recommendations are way too low.  I’ll look in my book this evening and post what Dr. Derry recommneds.

    Easy ways to increase iodine — no fluorodated water, use himilayan sea salt (healthier then iodized salt), add kelp or nori or other seaweed granules/flakes to salads or on cooked or raw eggs/smoothies.

    There’s not a lot of info on iodine deficiency in humans and even less in dogs.  Most of the sites/papers I see regarding dogs just look at how iodine affects the thyroid/hormones..  My guess is that dogs could use more in their diets too…

  • InkedMarie

    also, the Marie you mentioned isn’t me, right? If it is, I have no idea what you’re talking about

  • InkedMarie

    Breading? What kind? I prefer honey wheat.
    Sorry, couldn’t resist. You make fun of my birdie baby shower, I’m making fun of your breading LOL!!!

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Zookailas –

    Dr. Mike doesn’t review pre-mixes, just complete foods. In order to know the calcium content of the pre-mix you would have to contact the company. I emailed Dr. Harvey’s a while back asking for the calcium content and they wouldn’t disclose it to me – for this reason I wouldn’t use their products. You could try asking though and if they do tell you please post it here, I’m curious to see what it is and I’m sure others would be as well.

  • doggonefedup

    cinnamonpuff,

    Not that I need to explain my self to you but, my 7yr old
    GSD was the product of a first heat brother sister breading. It was a mishap by
    a very reputable breeder that I’ve known most of my life. That litter produced
    8 puppies, five were still born. Of the three that lived mine was the runt and
    at six weeks he was only half the size of his brother and sister. So I brought
    him home to nurse him since he was just being pushed out by the other two. He
    is still a small shepherd today at 76lbs and only 26″ at the shoulder. So golly gee
    Marie, I’m sorry you think I was trying to spoof you, but, it has been a long
    bumpy road for this dog with many set backs over the past 7 yrs.  I’ve made some mistakes with him over the
    years and I’ve learned a lot as well. My passion is for German Shepherd dogs
    and I will do anything I can for them and I’m very happy with the progress we
    have made over the years.
     

     

  • Zookailas

    If possible, I would like to see a review of the following food: Dr. Harvey’s Canine Health. This food may prove challenging to review because it is a dehydrated, freeze dried premix to which the human must add a protein and an oil. The protein can be raw or cooked. I am presently using this food – I add in cooked chicken as my protein and use fish oil for my oil. My big question about this food is how much calcium is actually in the food once it is all mixed up.

  • EvesHumanMom

    Hi Dog Food Ninja,
    Not Shawna,either,  but in addition to seafood, kelp and other seaweed contain iodine. 

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Ninja……

    I know you asked Shawna, but in the mean time. I also eat the Paleo diet. I include a lot of fish (including shellfish). Its one of the best sources of iodine.Celery is also a good and safe source. Not sure about the dog food question, but I think they are for the most part balanced. I think the question was certain brand’s/kinds incorporating cruciferous vegetables to a kibble recipe,
    might block iodine. Over time causing a deficiency.   

  • Dog Food Ninja

     Shawna, eating Paleo, I should naturally get the correct amount of iodine, right?  I eat eggs almost every day and a good variety of veggies and meats.  Is there something else that I can add that will impart more iodine?  And what about my dogs… they eat a rotation of the Earthborn grain free flavors.  Should I be concerned with their iodine level, or should that be adjusted already in a top shelf kibble?   

  • Shawna

    Iodine deficiency is really quite rampant in humans.  I imagine the same is true for pets..?

    I was given the CD recording of Donna Wild discussing iodine deficiency at the Back to School for Doctors lecture series put on by Standard process. 

    “Donna Wild presents “Iodine: The Most Essential Trace Mineral for Mind and Body, Lifeline from the Sea.” For mind and body, iodine is probably the most overlooked essential nutrient worldwide. (For instance, the World Health Organization cites its deficiency as the world’s number one cause of brain damage.) Ms. Wild’s lecture convincingly demonstrates that iodine metabolism goes well beyond the thryroid’s need for this mineral. Topics include:”  http://www.seleneriverpress.com/products/audio/category/21-back-to-school-for-doctors-series/type-atom?format=feed

    Iodine deficiency is a cause of breast cancer.  More info can be found on this in the book “Breast Cancer and Iodine : How to Prevent and How to Survive Breast Cancer”  http://www.amazon.com/Breast-Cancer-Iodine-Prevent-Survive/dp/1552128849   It is a small book PACKED with information.  Can be read in a day or weekend..  It discusses issues beyond breast cancer as well.

    Information on Dr. David Bromstein M.D.s book
    “… it helps to regulate moods, preventing cancer (especially in breasts, ovaries, uterus, prostate and thyroid gland), preventing and treating fibrocystic breasts in women, helping to regulate blood pressure, helping to regulate blood sugar and prevent and treat diabetes, and helping to prevent abnormal cardiac rhythms.”  http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/nutrition/brownstein.htm

    There may have been more to Doggone’s GSDs hypothyroidism then the food alone (fluoride in drinking water possibly) but excess goitrogens certainly don’t help. My point was to just be cautious (crucifers are great at helping to prevent cancer too — just have to eat them without affecting iodine levels).

  • Shawna

    Oh, that’s a good link Storm’s Mom..

    I forgot, my vet is knowledgable in nutraceuticals (glandulars being my favorite that she uses) and bach flower remedies too.  (probably others I am still forgeting or don’t know of)

  • Shawna

    Ideally I would look for someone that is trained in multiple modalities.  Example my holistic vet is trained in Western herbals, Chinese herbals, homeopathy, applied kinesiology, chiropractic, acupunture/acupressure and essential oils (maybe more).  The more options they can choose from for treatment — the better for you and your dog in my opinion.

    I would look for someone that understands nutrition better then most allopaths.  Even if they feed kibble it should be a high end kibble.  My holistic vet is a raw feeder but I’m aware of many good holistic vets that are not.

    Ideally they should be concerned with the toxins in your dogs life — they may recommend flea meds (if in an endemic area) but they should recommend the least prolematic one and give ideas on how to limit the overall toxins — using milk thistle, heartworm every 6 weeks, limited vaccinations (preferrably recommending titering) etc..

    They should also initially spend more time with you and your pup then an allopath usually does.  My first visit with my Pom to my holistic vet lasted a full hour.  Took a full history (including shot history etc), hands on head to body exam of Gizmo.  Example – I took Gizmo to my allopathic vet (after hours for holistic vet) due to her crying.  Allopath gave her a NSAID shot and sent me home with more NSAIDs.  NSAIDs cause colitis in my Pom.  So now I had two issues to deal with.  After the NSAIDs wore off Gizmo was still in pain..  Holistic vet even watched her walk for like 10 minutes and discovered the pain was in her shoulder (not her back as the allopathic vet thought).  She then did a deep tissue massage of the areas around and some type of energy technique in the area of pain.  Gave me some herbal anti inflammatories (which didn’t cause colitis) and gave me a homeopathic for the colitis.. 

    This isn’t the case with all — but the holistic visit was just a few dollars more then the less then 10 minute allopathic visit which did us no good.

    Hope that helps and sorry it was so long..

  • Shawna

    It’s my understanding that cooking can have an affect on the overall amount of goitrogens but not eliminate them completely (in crucifers at least).  I LOVE brussel sprouts but have been told to limit my intake.  Brussel sprouts are eaten cooked.  My dairy issue caused the malnutrition that caused the iodine deficiency not over consumption of crucifers but they do add to the issue.  My symptoms were neurological in nature — tendonitis and carpel tunnel (without actually having carpel tunnel) etc.  Iodine deficiency is already very rampant in the US (at least in humans).  I’m just suggesting caution..  :)

  • Storm’s Mom

    I’m not Shawna, but….

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holistic_veterinary_medicine

    might help?

  • Dave’s Hounds

    Shawna in looking for a holistic vet – what should I be concerned about or look for when selecting one?
     

  • cinnamonpuff

    The broccoli and iodine issue probably only refers to raw broccoli. Even lightly steaming the broccoli stops the iodine absorption issue!

  • cinnamonpuff

     I get it now. Shawna posts about iodine absorption and then you post about hypothyroidism from what must be a lack of iodine. The jokes on me!!!

  • doggonefedup

    In the case of my GSD it started out as itchy skin and since he has had yeast before we just assumed it was another bout of yeast. When he started losing his fur and started to get overly aggressive we figured it there had to be more to it. Turned out to be a form of hypothyroidism. It was caught early. Almost as soon as we took him off the legacy the aggression subsided.

  • cinnamonpuff

    where are my posts?

  • cinnamonpuff

    What was the problem with GSD’s and Legacy?

  • doggonefedup

    YES!  Actually both my boys are doing great. I am using just Brothers for the kibble portion of their KFC diet. I may reintroduce Abadys Granulated but that’s it for dry.
     Sorry it took so long to respond. I had to run out. My butcher called. He had 30lbs of grass fed lamb left at $2.57lb. I couldn’t get there fast enough!!!!

  • Shawna

    Your EPI guy is eating Brothers though isn’t he?  If so, doing well on it?

  • doggonefedup

    Shawna,
    I tried Legacy once. Turns out it isn’t very healthy food to feed to a German Shepherd that has EPI.
     It took six months to get my EPI back to a normal feeding regiment after that. At first we thought it was a yeast flare up. Boy were we wrong.

  • Shawna

    I would be cautious using Legacy as an only food.  If rotating not as problematic. 

    Legacy has three different cruciferous vegetables in it–cabbage, bok choy and broccoli.  Crucifers are known to prevent iodine absorption.  Iodine deficiency can lead to thyroid issues.. 

    Most recommendations are to not eat crucifers more then 3 times per week to avoid this issue. 

    The manufacturer may have compensated by adding extra iodine but I would want to know that before feeding this food every day for who knows how long..  :)

  • hectorsmum

    We have an American friend who keeps us up to date with that forum. Thanks

  • hectorsmum

     I will be happy to, what works for one does not work for all. Mine looks likely to be using the Yeast starvation diet which is very similar to what he eats presently.

  • hectorsmum

     Thank you for your Reply Richard, I live on the East Coast just across the Forth from Edinburgh in a previous capital called Dunfermline. The Burial place of King Robert Bruce and several others. Yes we are lucky to live in such a wonderful place and we have travelled all over, we did so with our two previous Pugs, the latest does not care for too much travelling and he stays home, we have a home boarding spot for him now. He is also half American, comes from Ohio, his Granddaddy is in Candylands Kennels there. I would have been happy to have tried it now that I know what is in it. I have done my bit of advertising for you, never know you may be inundated, so many Pugs in the US who have this problem. Helena and Hektor

  • cinnamonpuff

     My girl did a lot better on Horizon Legacy than on the Brothers food. You should tell your pugslife people to check it out. It is less expensive than Brothers and it is also grain and potato free. Out of all the kibbles I fed my girl she did the best on Legacy. She really thrived! I now feed dehydrated and home made for about the same price as the Brothers food.

  • http://BrothersComplete.com/ Richard Darlington

    hectorsmum

    I’m sorry we can’t get Brothers to you in Scotland (there actually are NO grains or potato in it – I’m quite emphatically resolute about that in our formulas). The carb source is Cassava root (of which one half is effectively a prebiotic and quite useful) and peas.

    I was in western Scotland 20 years ago in a haunted (SERIOUSLY!! but she was a sweet old lady) 600 year old castle that I’d been hired to figure out the cause, and a solution to, an extremely egregious water infiltration problem they had whenever the rain and water from the Loch was blown against the 6 story high castle walls. as was the case when the wind tore up the Loch at 50 miles and hour, which apparently it did quite regularly. It was Dunderave Casle on Loch Fyne. I believe it was a few miles north of Inverraray and was located at the very end of the Loch.

    I spent almost 2 weeks there and experienced such a rare and primordial beauty as I had never before encountered in my world travels. It took my breath away and made wish I could write good poetry. I have never had my entire body and consciousness so completely infiltrated by such raw and poignant beauty, before or since (with the exception of my Marisa, of course).

    I have promised my Marisa that I will take her to western Scotland someday and I’m looking forward to being there again. So while I’m sorry you don’t have Brothers Complete, I envy you your beautiful home land.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Several folks from the UK here:

    http://www.pugvillage.com

  • hectorsmum

     Richard, just to let your know that I have passed on the information regarding your food to my Pugslife Website, so many Pugs have so much trouble with food.

  • hectorsmum

    Funnily enough I came across a Beautiful Longhaired GSD Puppy whose owner was going down the road that I nearly travelled. Her dog was in a much worse state than mine Should I meet her again I will pass on the information I have gleaned here.

  • hectorsmum

     Thank you so much for this, funnily enough Hektor had one of the listed foods as a puppy, before he graduated to dry food. I will pass this on to others on my Pug Web site,  You have no idea how many Pugs have these forms of allergies and many are struggling with sick, much sicker than mine, Pugs.

  • hectorsmum

     Actually he has not had any grain for nearly two years but as I am learning in his case t is fruit which has been very unhelpful. He is now off it forever. Like all Pugs and he is my third, they all love fruit but this feeds yeast. I am not joking when I say that since Friday he has come on leaps and bounds. He is back on his raw diet, with his Yumega Plus supplement and his antihistamine and one dessert spoonful of probiotic yoghurt, until his new supplement comes in and his skin is back to being white from the livid pink, his ears are back to normal, okay he still smells yeasty but Rome was not built in a day. I have checked out the Yeast Starvation Diet and as soon as his pro and prebiotics arrive I will put him on it. Kibble is out, sorry Richard, but he has had all sorts of grains and starch and he is not good on any of them.

  • Alexandra

    Hi Hectorsmum,

    Glad to help.

    From what you say it sounds very much like a candida yeast infection. I would make it a point to remove anything with white potato and grains. Cut out all treats and offer just kibble for the next few months to bring the candida back in check.

    I know exactly what you mean about the vets, my regular vet out right dismissed all the proof that I showed her. She even stated that she only sees yeast infections in older dogs.

    Needless to say, she’s no longer my vet, I have switched to a holistic vet that supports me, which is nice.

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Hectorsmum…..

    Your very welcome. Maybe all things considered, just feeding raw would be the best thing for you? Or a top rate BPA free, grain free wet food. I would try and avoid sugar, grain, potato and include pre-biotics, pro-bioctics, enzymes. Stand fast it should work in about 6 to 8 months or so. Maybe seeking out a good holistic vet might help give a fresh perspective.  I hope one way or another you find the answers.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy
  • hectorsmum

    Just thought i would let you know that I have managed to acquire a pre and probiotic which is not dairy related. Thanks to all for your assistance, you have all been really great.

  • hectorsmum

     Thanks for the reply.my problem is that I am in the UK and I rather think that buying Brothers might be difficult and I am sorry but I have a complete aversion to kibble of any sort because of Hektor’s reaction to it in the past. I am glad you have found a solution to your problems. Hektor’s is not too severe that I am confident that we can find a solution. I know many others have many more problems, We only sought a bit more help from our Vet which was a big mistake.

  • hectorsmum

     Would agree, mine did not do well on Chicken and rice and this is the standard diet for a dog with an upset stomach, I use Turkey and I have used beef, according to the Website I have been using these are okay foods. You should avoid anything sweet, so Hektor is off fruit from now on. He is also going to get the odd tin of sardines and more offal in his diet.

  • hectorsmum

     Thank you so much for your reply Shawna, I have written to Richard here, I am in the UK and I think it might be difficult getting this food and I have a great dislike of kibble of any kind since Hektor nearly lost his eyesight on the one  recommended. I do take your point about Dairy, it is with reluctance I am trying it, so far so good and I have since found that the company I use for his oil addition are also making a probiotic and I will be investigating as soon as I finish saying thank you here.

  • hectorsmum

     Thank you so much for your reply and your dog is lovely. If I posted one of Hektor you would have a great deal of difficulty in thinking this is an unhealthy dog. His coat is normally beautiful ( he is moulting presently) the damage is all underneath. He has a patch of bare skin at his neck which he has had for a good while and a little one was forming on his chest.
    Because of his intolerance to grain I cannot even contemplate kibble of any sort. He nearly lost the sight in one of his eyes. That is why I was so angry with the Vet, who was obviously in send mode rather than receive, for suggesting Hill’s dry food for him and the icing on the cake so to speak was that there is corn starch as a thickener in the wet. One tin and he was scratching all night, I was not waiting till his conjunctivitis came back, so he is back to a more normal diet. at least for him.

  • hectorsmum

     thanks for your reply Alexandra, Hektor has one thing going for him, he has not had a problem with loose stools apart from the first period when we started feeding raw, chicken is not a good meat for him nor is rice any good. He has problems with starch which is why I was so worried about Hill’s which I am about to return to my Vet after two tins which left him scratching all night.
    None of my Vets would acknowledge that yeast was the problem, in fact I was ignored every time and that included the session I paid heavily for on Wednesday. HE smells like a biscuit (cookie if you like) when he gets up out of his bed at night you can smell it, and his ears are also yeasty. Since I put him back on turkey and started feeding a little probiotic yoghurt he seems calmer, his skin is no longer as red and his ears have calmed down as well. He still has the odd scratch, but if you get up and put him back to bed at night he is asleep in seconds, which leaves me wondering how much is now habit.

  • hectorsmum

     Thank you for your reply Richard but as I am in the UK, Scotland to be precise I think I might have difficulty in acquiring your food, and please do not take this the wrong way because I am sure that your food does exactly what it says it does but all dry food has to have a binder and they nearly all are some sort of cereal. The only thing I found that Hektor did not react badly too was Quinoa which is not a member of the wheat/corn type family my Vet though suggested I get him off all sorts of grain and this is when I put him on a mixed vegetable diet with  his meat. I am wary of using dairy as I know this also can cause allergies, but the way things were going it was worth the chance. It seems presently to be working but he is only getting a desert teaspoonful. I deal with a company here in the UK who supplies his oil and I notice they are manufacturing a probiotic which I am just about to consult. Thank you again for caring.

  • InkedMarie

    good idea! (glad you explained the KFC so she didn’t have to ask you too LOL)

  • InkedMarie

    I did not have allergy testing done on my yeasty boy but someone online gave me a list of ingredients to avoid: chicken, corn, wheat, soy, rice and flax; I had to add brewers yeast to that list. Some dogs who can’t handle chicken kibble CAN handle it raw; some can’t. If I were you, I would stop feeding what you are, it’s possible the chicken and rice is harming them. I’d look for a turkey or a fish food. Orijen or Acana Fish, Earthborn fish, Nature’s Variety limited ingredient turkey did great by my dog. many more

  • Shawna

    I wouldn’t add yogurt to a yeasty dogs food because the lactose in the dairy is food for good and bad pathogens.  But, in a healthy dog (that is not allergic to or intolerant of) dairy can add extra nutrients.  I especially like a commercial product made by Answer’s pet food.  It is raw goat milk (made for our pets). 

    Most yogurts have too much added sugar and don’t have enough beneficial bacteria.  Kefir is better and home made kefir is better yet.  OR, taking a high quality probitoic like Mercola’s Pet product or Garden of Life’s Primal Defense is the best option in my opinion.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    If you’re already making homemade chicken and rice why not get some recipes and make a balanced homemade grain-free diet? My three bloodhounds eat a balanced homemade, grain-free raw diet and have never had any ear issues. Starches feed yeast in the ears. If you want to go with dry try a grain-free dry food – Nature’s Variety Instinct and The Great Life are both grain-free/potato free and coated in freeze-dried raw. Back when I fed kibble my dogs did well on these brands.

  • Em Mandel

    Wait, so you add yogurt to the food mix? 
    What kind of yogurt? 

  • Em Mandel

    I have not found a single dog food product that works for my dogs (big floppy ears) to help with the yeast infections (ears) and the allergies to beef (their ear canals are bright red/pink due to the allergies) 

    I have started boiling my own chickens, adding brown rice, carrots, peas, gelatin, and milk powder..It’s a very temp 
    diet until I get to the busy vet..(10 days) My dogs like
    the food a lot. 

    I have started using Zymox shampoo and those ear drops.
    After 10 days of using the blue bottle, red bottle of Zymox
    my dogs ears are super clean…maybe the yeast is gone??
    They don’t stink, no brown, bloody crust anymore. They 
    are still going to the vet though because the diet that
    they are on is missing a ton of nutrients…

    Please help me to find a dog food to start them on. They
    grew up eating Chicken Soup..(the dog food brand) I 
    love the convenience of dry dog food. 
    Kindest- Ms. Mandel

  • Shawna

    Brothers food has been quite successful for a lot of people dealing with yeast infections…  And Richard is a GREAT source of info!!  If you decide to go with the kibble, you can always add fresh, raw food to it!! :)   That way you get the best of both worlds.. 

    I also agree with Richard about taking a HIGH quality probiotic over using yogurt (even unsweetened yogurt).  Lactose in dairy feeds both the good and bad guys..  You don’t want to feed the bad guys while there is an unbalance towards bad…  Call Richard, he can help!! ;)

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi hectorsmom…

    I’m sorry to hear about your dog. I was once in your shoes. I can say without question, that Brothers kibble worked 100% for my dog. From the start Richard and sons were there for me. I’ll post before and after pictures for you to see. Good luck. 

  • Alexandra

    Hi Hectorsmum,

    Speaking first hand, my GSD Dante had systemic Candida.  I went through all of the stress and aggrivations of no releif from the vet, countless steriods and antibiotic treatments all to no avail.  My boy was just shy of a year when all of the problems began.  He had chronic yeasty ears, shin lesions and a tremendous amount of hair loss, he was unable to gain weight as everything went right through him.  I had been feeding Orijen, which I still think is a good kibble, and was floored when the vet wanted to offer a grain inclusive, corn based $120.00 bag of Royal Canin, which I refused.
     
    I eventually made contact with Richard, last August, and ordered a bag of Brothers Allegry, I had a lot of reservations, but what was 80.00 after the thousands at the vet?

    Within two weeks of the first bag, the loose stools were gone, ears clean, eyes no longer red and irritated.

    Have been feeding Brothers for a year now, and I can not say enough great things about it.  It wook from September to March before Dante stopped itching, it took him that long to heal.

  • http://BrothersComplete.com/ Richard Darlington

    hectorsmum

    I can completely understand your frustration with the situation; but I’m encouraged that you are aware that your dog has Candida because due to years of research with thousands of dogs I’m absolutely convinced that Candida overgrowth and it’s more severe manifestation, “Systemic Candida” is far more prevalent than anyone in the industry seems to be aware of. Brothers has been formulated specifically to deal with that condition. 

    First it is crucial to stop all grain and potato and sugar in ANY form. Then the health of the colon must be addressed and healing encouraged with PREbiotics and PRObiotics. Candida takes at least 6 months to bring bak into balance and there are often a “healing crisis” or two along the way because Candida has a tendency to die back in stages which releases toxins that can cause a brief return of the symptoms or diarrhea/loose stool or a combination of both before the healing continues to progress.

    I would recommend against providing probiotics through yogurt in the case of Candida and just use pure PRObiotics if you are going to add them to the food. Adding effective and selective PREbiotics is a huge help also.

    I have considerable personal experience with Candida, Systemic Candida, and Leaky Gut – all of which you will need to be more familiar with to restore your dog to a state of vibrant health…but it is most certainly attainable.

    Please feel free to call me on my cell at 954-882-1832 and I’ll be happy to go into specifics and let you know what might constitute a successful course of action regardless of how you choose to feed your boy – you’re on the right track.

  • doggonefedup

    hectorsmum,
    Do yourself and your dog a favor. try what I am calling the 30 day challenge. Get a 25lb bag of Brothers Complete Allergy Formula dog food. Try it for 30 days and see if there are any improvements in your dog condition. I am on day 24 with my GSD’s and today there is no more stinky fur. No more itchy ears, No more snotty pus filled eyes, their fur is getting more of a shine to it then it already had, and my seven year old’s prostate infection is gone. I have been doing a KFC diet with my dogs forever. The only thing I changed was the K (kibble.) The F (fresh) and C (canned) are exactly the same. I only used five star or better foods and grass fed human grade animal products, mostly from New Zealand. When the thirty days are up I will reassess their condition and if I think there has been a definite improvement I will continue using the Brothers kibble for a full six months just to prove to myself these improvements weren’t just a fluke.

  • hectorsmum

     Thanks for your contribution Aimee but my mind is made up he is coming off this food, not only was I displeased to read that the dry food contains potato but that the wet food contains corn regardless of what they do with it, I have spent a good long time stopping my dog suffering any more problems, that I am not paying for an expensive food to undo the good I have managed to do over the years. I will sort my dog, he has a yeast problem I know I have smelt him and that is what I will be treating him for.

  • hectorsmum

     Hi Mellisa, have been onto my other website and we now have a good idea what was wrong with him, he has a Yeast infection,not only in his ears but on his skin, I have constantly mentioned this to the Vet to no avail and the other day was obviously no different. He was on Turkey and we changed this to beef which I understand is considered a baddie for everything except yeast infections. We will be putting him back onto raw eventually turkey with a good probiotic yoghurt. We will be cutting out the fruit that though he loves, he can do without. One thing for certain, last night was the last night he will spend scratching again, we had just got him calmed down and he was doing well, one tin of Hill’s ZD and we are back at the beginning. Why are Vets so crass as to advise a product which contains corn when you tell them that your dog shows to be allergic to corn and to potato, indeed starch.

  • Melissaandcrew

     hectorsmum-

    If your dog is still itching on raw and now has lost hair, that is not working for him either. Personally, I would look into a different protein source(perhaps fish, rabbit etc for a while. And, turkey and veggies is not balanced.

  • aimee

    Hi Hectorsmum,
    I’m sorry you and your dog are going through this.

    I can tell you that as a diagnostic trial I would feel very comfortable using this diet.

    My own dog has adverse food reaction so I’ve been down this road.

    Hydrolyzed diets are very specialized. Food reactions are usually to protein. The starches used are tested to make sure they are free from any residual proteins that the dog may react to.

    I have read on another blog that Hill’s uses PCR testing for trace protein contamination when the ingredients come in to the manufacturer, again in the production line and again as the final product.  I have not verified this information.

    If you are concerned though of the starch component you may want to contact Hill’s and see what they do to make sure that there isn’t any corn protein contamination in the final product.  

    Best of Luck

  • InkedMarie

    Where abouts do you live? Maybe we can find one. You could also go to http://www.dogaware.com, I’m pretty sure that’s the website I’ve seen here for help with raw and cooked meals.
    I have a dog that had many ear infections. I keep him away from chicken, corn, wheat, soy, rice and yeast. That keeps the ear issues at bay. He is a paw licker, I do not know if that is behavioral or medical. We just started on Brothers Allergy food, no potato, no grain, to see if it will help. Click on the food list above left, click on “B” and look for it

  • hectorsmum

     Wish there was one Marie, none where we live unfortunately but do not worry he will not be on this for long, I warned her that the first sign of problems and I will be back and boy she will hear what I have to say. I told her he has an allergic reaction to corn/maize/sweet corn. We have tried him on rice, quinoa even and we settled on a vegetable mixture of cauliflower, broccoli and carrot and this has worked very well with his raw meat and his oil. I wanted to find out what was causing his allergic reaction, he is on anti histamine all year round, I know he has bad reactions to food and therefore we keep him away from all cereal. This Vet and I do not see things the same way and she is very forceful, but so am I . Unfortunately my Husband was with me or this would not have happened. I would have walked.

  • hectorsmum

     Thank you Bryan, I am happy to have my fears confirmed, I wish I had been better informed yesterday so I could have argued more strongly, I prevented him being changed back to dry food but accepted that wet would not be so bad. Now I expect this this food will react very quickly with my dog which will bring this trial to a halt, if I were the only one involved here I would be back with the very expensive rubbish tomorrow, but my Husband would prefer to see if this will have any effect on his allergies.

  • hectorsmum

     No he was started on Chicken and rice but we changed him to Turkey and Vegetable and he has been fine with the addition of Yumega plus. Unfortunately i may have made a mistake and changed him at the beginning of the year to beef, though this did nothing inwardly or caused the main problem which was the eyes and ears, mostly the eyes he has been on Piriton for two years because of the itching. He has now gone bald on a patch on his neck and it is spreading. Therefore we felt forced to consult the Skin Specialist in our Vets. I will admit I dislike her, met her before when the Pug was small and she accused him of biting her, he hadn’t he actually loves the Vets. She was so rough with him then. I expressed my feelings quite strongly about Hill’s and point blank refused to put him onto Hill’s Dry, something I am grateful for as I have discovered from coming here that it contains Potato starch which we are sure was the main problem with his previous food. Now you tell me there is corn in this, now I am angry as we told her he had a bad reaction to corn. I will look up your website, but because I am committed to this trial, and I warned her should there be a detrimental effect on my dog he will be off this quicker than I can type this. Thank you all for confirming my fears.

  • Shawna

    PS — if you are actually feeding more then just raw chicken but only mentioned that as his introductory food off of commercial — then please disregard my last post :) .

  • Shawna

    hectorsmum ~~ I agree whole heartedly with InkedMarie and Bryan that ZD is a step down from raw.  However, a raw diet of chicken only is HORRIBLY unbalanced and will cause more problems then it resolves in the long run.  Just one example — chicken (the skin and dark meats) is high in Omega 6 fatty acids and deficient in omega 3 and saturated fats.  This can lead to a LOT of inflammation in the body.

    If you can’t feed a balanced commercial raw product then do LOTS of research about balancing a home made diet or find recipes to follow.  Here’s a source of some info that might help  http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjhomemade2.html#rules

  • BryanV21

    That’s a major step backwards, going form raw to ZD.

    The 3rd and 4th ingredients in the wet (which includes water, which isn’t much of an ingredient) is corn starch and powdered cellulose. Corn is not a good ingredient. In fact, when I hear of allergies, I tell people to get away from grains altogether. There’s as good a chance that grains are the issue, than any protein (aka “meat”). 

    Powdered cellulose is used for fiber, and is a poor source of fiber at that. And I’m not talking about it’s fiber content (which I don’t know off hand), but the fact that you can get fiber from much better sources (for example, peas). 

    Being overweight by only .7 kilos is not a big problem either, so you should’t worry about it. And it definitely shouldn’t affect what food you feed. You may simply want to feed smaller portions, or substitute something like green beans for some of the food.

  • InkedMarie

    Please don’t feed him that food. Find a holistic vet and ask for an appointment ASAP. You will be going very backwords from raw to that crap. I wish I could reassure you, I do and I’m sorry to be blunt but IMO, you are not doing the right thing. It’s not like it’s life and death, please call a holistic vet now

  • hectorsmum

    I am about to start feeding my five year old Pug, Hills ZD
    prescription Diet after feeding him raw for two years. This is on advice of our Vet as we are trying to get to grips with his itching and loss of hair from scratching his neck. I am very unhappy about this as we took him off manufactured food because of constant ear problems and constant bouts of conjunctivitis. He was actually prescribed as having dry eye and we were given drops to treat this. The first week we used this we were using an Antibiotic but as soon as these stopped he could not even open his eyes. At that time we were using, again after discussions with the Vet Wafcol Salmon and Potato. Two days after starting to feed him on raw chicken he had no problems with his eyes and from that day I can count the number of episodes of conjunctivitis he has had on one hand. What is worrying me is that this food contains cereal and we have come to the conclusion, without any evidence other than his reaction to various form of dry food, that cereal is one of his triggers. Am I doing the right thing can anyone reassure me. Also I seem to need an awful lot of these tins to feed him, he weighs around 11.70 kilos and I agree he needs to be down to 11Kilos, he is a big Pug.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Just noticed the mixed tocopherols used to preserve the fat/oil – this is the natural form of vitamin e (mixed tocopherols is the more scientific name). This is a natural preservative. Other than that I don’t see any preservatives.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I checked out their website and it looks good to me – 35% protein, 25% fat. The ingredients look okay. But where are you seeing preservatives? I don’t see any preservatives in the ingredients list.

  • Bodie

    Is there any review anywhere for Tuscan Natural Carne dry dog food?  I received a special price from petflow and lo and behold my picky dog eats it with gusto. The ingredients sound great but some of the preservatives are suspect.  What does everyone think?  Ingredients:::  Tuscan Natural Carne Grain Free Recipe for Dogs   Ingredients:Turkey
    Chicken
    Turkey Meal
    Chicken Meal
    Potatoes
    Peas
    Menhaden Fishmeal
    Herring Meal
    Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols)
    Flax Seed, Olive Oil (preserved wityh mixed tocopherols)
    Natural Flavor
    Potassium Chloride
    Alfalfa Leaf
    Dried Chicory Root
    Apples
    Tomatoes
    Carrots
    Calcium Carbonate
    Vitamin E Supplement Niacin SupplementdCalcium PantothenateVitamin B-12 SupplementVitamin A AcetateVitamin D-3 Supplementd-Biotin, Riboflavin SupplementThiamine MononitratePyridoxine HydrochlorideFolic AcidIron ProteinateZinc ProteinateManganese ProteinateCopper ProteinateSodium SeleniteCobalt ProtenateEthylenediamine DihydroiodideDried Lactobacillus AcidophilusEnterococcus FaeciumDried Spergillus nigerDried Trichoderma longibrachiatum8888888882Dried Basillus subtilis fermentation produc

  • Joan Farber

    16 lb. 13 yr. old nuetered  males dog seemed to get loose stools from the beef (cannot remember the cute name of the specific Variety canned food) so went back to the lamb based version of Variety.  Added a tiny amt. of grain free dry and guess what its sitting in the dish.  Is he just a stinker?  He ate it w/out the dry added yesterday.

  • InkedMarie

    Hello Em,
       In my opinion, no. With the itchiness, sores and the yeast ear infections in your girl, this food is not a good choice. IMO, you need a grainfree food and I’d stick with a fish based one. I have a dog who used to get recurrent yeast ear infections. I keep him away from chicken, corn, wheat, soy, rice and brewers yeast. Some dogs can’t handle flax as well. Keep in mind, you need to watch everything your dogs eat, including supplements. 

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Em Mandel! :)

    Glad to see another bloodhound owner on here! I’ve got three myself – Gus 7 year old black & tan male 112 lbs., Gertie 1 1/2 year old red female 68 lbs., Mabel 9 week old liver & tan female 15(?) lbs.

    All of my dogs eat a homemade raw diet. Approximately 45-55% protein, 30-40% fat, 15-20% carbs. – varies every meal depending on what I decide to feed them. They eat no grains. They are so healthy. I walk my two adults twice a day, about 5 miles each walk – we are a very active family. They are all slim and trim. No health issues.

    Good choices for food really vary depending on your budget – and I know how much bloodhounds eat so it gets expensive! Obviously I fell raw is the ultimate, but it’s time consuming and pricey so it’s not very practical for that reason. The good news is there are several high quality alternatives.

    I would definitely stay away from Pro Plan and Rachael Ray! A good place to start would be picking one of the 4 or 5 star foods on this site. My mom actually feeds her dog Whole Earth Farms – it’s good quality for the cost. However considering your dogs have yeast problems with their ears you may want to consider a grain and potato free food, I know a lot of people have had success getting rid of yeast issues going this route. Some options would be Nature’s Variety Instinct, Great Life, and Brothers Complete. These foods are a little pricier because they’re grain-free, not sure if that’s an issue. The Whole Earth Farms canned would be great to top a grain-free food with though, it’s grain-free and very reasonably priced in comparison to other canned foods of equal quality.

  • Em Mandel

    I have 2 indoor bloodhounds both 100 lbs. They are
    the most lazy dog in the world. I have to take them
    for walks every day (2 miles) and then 3 days a
    week they go to the Dog Park to socialize, play
    and sniff around (never running) 

    The female is slightly overweight but she’s been
    eating Purina Pro Plan Shredded Chicken and 
    gobbles it down so fast that I have to break up
    her feeding. She sleeps 16 hours everyday.

    The male eats the same but honestly prefers
    Rachael Ray’s Just Six brown rice and chicken.
    He is lean, muscles but lazy when he sleeps
    20 hours a day. 

    Both drink water in equal proportions. They are
    both very healthy.

    Neither of them can have any beef products
    including chews and treats. They get huge
    itchy patches and sores. It took steroids and
    a year of benedryl (up to 4 tablets in 24 hours)
    to rid them of the beef allergy and the sores.

    My female gets yeast infections in her ears 
    that have been most difficult to treat. We 
    finally bought Zomax which cleaned it and
    cleared it right up. (Diluted Vinegar hurt)
    so I have to watch for sensitivity.

    I bought them Merrick Whole Earth Farms Adult Dry Fog Food.

    Did I make the right choice or can you suggest
    otherwise what may keep my 6 yr old dogs 
    in good health?

  • Pattyvaughn

    I feed my dogs by-products all the time. But I do know what they are eating and what quality. When I feed chicken liver, I know my dog is getting liver, not liver, beak, and poo. If I choose to feed my dog a whole chicken then I know he’s getting a little of everything, not a whole meal of the worst things. Quality by-products aren’t bad. The problem is that the cheap stuff isn’t the good stuff and many dog food companies opt for the cheap stuff, but they don’t have to tell you that on the label.

  • Mandapanda1225

    Exactly why are by-products bad? Have you ever been to a wild dog kill site before? Have you ever whitnessed a pet dog kill and eat an animal? The “by-products” are the first things eaten every time. It’s the dog’s natural source of nutrition. Why do dog food manufacturers advertise “no by-products”? Because people don t like them. And dogs can’t pick their food so manufacturers have to appeal to the humans in order to sell. Its absurd.

  • melissa

     Thanks Pugs! I am going to look in to these suggestions as I would like to do a single protein rotation from to time : )

  • Pugsonraw

    Hi Melissa,

    I thought of a beef food for you. Natures logic has a beef dry food that falls within your search.

  • doggonefedup

    Guernz,
    Before going to taste of the wild, I would check out Evo, Merrik, Timberwolf, and/or Fromm. I was using Taste of The Wild for my boys up until the recent Diamond recall. That was the last straw for me.
    I also have German Shepherds. I’ve been around German Shepherds for more than fifty years.
    125lb dogs, sounds either like good German lines or Shilo Shpherds. How tall are they at the shoulder. That would better help me suggest a good kibble.

  • melissa

    -

    You guys are the best. I can’t tell you how many I tried looking up only to find several ingredients down lamb or chicken or something else common place. There is no other reason that I need it, except I want to do a rotation of single proteins-though the pork would work with the beef. Since most of the Acana foods I feed have some common proteins, I just wanted to be able to give them a break from any one for a period : ) Ranchland and grassland both have lamb, so its not a true “break” imo.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Make that 2 kibbles. Canine Caviar has a grain free buffalo formula as well. Contains lamb fat, but buffalo is the only protein.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Wow that was a difficult request – everything I had in mind wouldn’t work. lol.

    The only kibble I could find is The Great Life Buffalo. If dehydrated will work NRG has a beef formula and a buffalo formula and The Honest Kitchen has Love.

  • BryanV21

    Fromm Beef Fritata? It has pork meat meal, and does add salmon oil, but no meals or meats from chicken, lamb, or fish. It does have a minimum fat content of 18%, though.

    Otherwise, the only one I can think of his Natural Balance Bison and Sweet Potato, although I’m sure you’re not interested in anything possibly made at a Diamond plant.

  • melissa

     ps-prefer 4-5 star and grain free would be a bonus : )

  • melissa

    quick question for any and all-

    Does any one have any suggestions for a beef or bison formula that is not variety protein based? In other words, I am looking for something without lamb or chicken or fish as a secondary protein source. No allergy issues etc to worry about- The Acana Ranchlands has the lamb meal as well, and I would like a beef or bison only as another rotational food-

    Fat content can not be above 18%

  • BryanV21

    Some dogs do well on changing foods “cold turkey”, while others take a couple of weeks to transition. My advice would be to transition, just to be on the safe side, and not end up with diarrhea or anything tummy issues. After transitioning through all the different varieties you plan on using, then “cold turkey” should be fine. All dogs are different though, so a bit of trial and error may occur.

    Simply wait until you have about a week’s worth of food left, then get the next one and start mixing. Start with a 25/75 (new/old) ratio, then move to 50/50, and finally 75/25.

    BTW, rotating isn’t just about giving dogs different flavors, it’s about getting them the benefits of all different types of meats/proteins. Bison has some stuff that fish doesn’t, venison has things that chicken doesn’t, and so on. Rotating allows you to give your dog the “best of both worlds”.

  • Paulmacs4005

    Guernz,

    A lot of kibble feeders on this website embrace the idea of rotation feeding, which makes good sense.  After all, who wants to eat the same food day in and day out for their entire life?  They find 3 or 4 different foods that have good ingredients and good reputations, and rotate between them.  I think your dogs would appreciate the change in flavour.  perhaps one or two rotational feeders could chime in with some tips on the best way to go about transitioning from one bag to the next.  ( I don’t know if you have to introduce it gradually each time you switch like you would if you were making a permanent change). 

  • Guernz

    I’ve been feeding my two 125 pound German Shepherds which I have been feeding Kirkland’s Salmon and they are doing well on it.  In saying that, I’ve been thinking about changing to Bison & Venison Taste of the Wild because after having given my dogs a little same of it, they did seem to like the taste better — ?? who knows ??  Any opinions as to feeding dogs Salmon vs. Bison & Venison?

  • cockermomma2012

    Have you tried the Honest Kitchen?  

  • Waterwings

    Hi Patty, you’ve made a great choice with Horizon Legacy, I’d say! I have fed Horizon Legacy Fish and will again in a couple months (I feed a few different foods on a rotating basis – I go through one bag of one food and then switch to another food for a bag, etc).  Anyway, Horizon Legacy Fish is a fantastic, high quality food!! My guy did great on it – great coat, great muscle tone, great look of health and wellbeing. Personally, I would highly recommend it.  My guy is allergic to chicken so I can’t feed him the regular Horizon Legacy, but if I could I would.  If yours is fine with chicken, you could consider using both varieties (regular and Fish – one bag of each at a time) in a rotation with other foods, or as her primary/only food, even. Hope this helps! 

  • Patty Pendleton

    This is my first time on this website.  So far, I’ve found it to be very helpful with truthful information to best of their ability.  Our little dog, and the two before her, aren’t just considered pets but a member of our family.  What we feed her is just as important as what we feed ourselves. This website has been very helpful in determining what dog food we’ll be buying for Tinker.  Right now, I’m leaning towards the Horizon Legacy.  If anyone is feeding this brand to their dog I’d like to hear what you have to say about.
     

  • Brenda

    YEP! My fox terrior is 20,be 21 soon.she has more pep than me and mommy wish’s she could keep up,she is blind in one eye,hearing is very little,arthritis is legs,but boy she sure can eat.Have her for a long time on pedigree healthy joints,she loves it, when i try to change her she gets sick,so seeing she is this old I’m not going to change her anymore,but I do look for recalls.So far no recall on healthy joint one.She does so well for her age and only want her happy at this point in her life.

  • Vicki

     So very sorry to hear about your dogs dx.  Knowing the normal lifespan after dx, I don’t know if your dog is still with you or not, but wanted to connect with you and invite you to join an email list for anyone with any kind of pet with any kind of cancer.  We do have dietary suggestions based on more than a decade of dealing with pets with cancers.  You’ll also find other information and support. 

    We do also have sister list for those who have lost their pets to cancer and are learning to live without them.  Following the intensive care and emotion that can go into caring for a pet, many find it difficult to move on.

    We can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/petswithcancer

    Vicki

  • sharron

    hi sabdy

    thanks – just bought a bag of nature’s variety raw medallions lamb – hope she doesn’t gain more weight eating this i figure she should 3 a day – the vet told me at her checkup that she should get 218 cal/per day
    so each medallion has 65 cal – so that 195cal/day so i’m coming up short.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    That’s unpredictable, but generic meat and bone meal and generic meat meal could include anything…including the 4-D animals, dead, dying, diseased and disabled prior to slaughter and they might have drugs and other chemicals still in their tissues.

    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/about-meat-meal/

    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/shocking-truth-about-dog-food/

    Maybe you can mix the Cesar with something else and put it through the food processor and make it into mush so she can’t separate the Cesar out and slowly get her onto something else.  Maybe she’s addicted to the “natural flavoring” in the Cesars.

  • sharron

    hi sandy

    i have bought low sodium chicken stock but thought the sodium was still too high and i have boiled some beef until it was really soft and grated it to mix with the dry that she was on at the time..an hour later the whole works came up. if i keep her on cesar, will health problems develop down the road

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Have you tried making a chicken or beef stock to put on the kibble?

    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/innova-prime-grain-free-dry/#comment-520439652

  • sharron

    Hi Mike

    the only dry dog food by 3 yr old yorkie/chihuahua will eat is cesar (not cesar milan food). i know it’s not the greatest but I don’t know what to do. i have tried several high end dry foods but she won’t touch it. I have had her on a canned diet that didn’t work either, tried raw..didn’t agree with her digestive system. Is Cesar really that bad of a dog food.

    thanks sharron

  • hounddogmom12

    Fred,

    In my opinion homemade food is the healthiest thing for dogs, I make my dog’s food from scratch also. However, as Thea stated, you need to do your research. While homemade has the potential to be the healthiest way to feed your pet, it can also be the most nutritionally incomplete if you aren’t aware of exactly what nutrients your dog requires. As a starter dogaware.com has some great articles on homemade cooked and homemade raw diets. There are also several pre-mixes and fortification powders available if you aren’t comfortable with supplementing your dogs food yourself. Pre-mixes are available from Sojos, The Honest Kitchen, K9 Critical Care, Dr. Harvey’s, Urban Wolf, Essex Cottage Farms, and Grandma Lucy’s. Fortifier powders are available from Wysong, See Spot Live Longer, and Balance It.

  • Thea

    Well… She’s lived 18 years on it, but in general, on that food she is not going to get all the nutrients she needs. If you want to make food for her, do some research first. She is probably not getting enough calcium, for a start.

  • Fred

    I have never feed my 18 year old dog canned or dry dog food.  I cook her every meal, consisting of rice, home made chicken soup and meat and carrots.  I compliment it with her daily vitamins supplements too.  Is this a healthy diet for her?

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Hi Hyr,

    Unfortunately, Arden Grange is not available in North America. And due to differences in labeling standards unique to each country, I’m currently reviewing products marketed only within the US and Canada.

    However, I may expand my service to other countries outside this region in the future.

    Thanks for the suggestion.

  • Hyr

    Arden Grange needs reviewing!

    Thanks