Are Dogs Carnivores… or Omnivores?

We own 7 dogs, of which two are Newfoundlands, two are GSD’s and three are cocker spaniels, we feed all three just raw meat and bone, with the occasional fish and egg. We do this to try to balance what they would eat in the wild. We did not always do this, we did use commercial foods (4% meat derivatives etc.) but had bad digestion problems with some of the dogs no matter what we tried and our Newfoundland male had started to limp and you could hear his hips clunk when he walked. We got a GSD pup who was weaned from mother to meat and the breeder asked if we would at least give the raw diet a go. We did and were so impressed we moved all the dogs onto it. Now all the dogs are healthy and no digestion problems at all. The main success is our 15 stone Newfoundland boy ‘Kitten’ who now moves with the ease of a young dog, he runs around and can even leave the ground when chasing for a toy, no clunks, nothing. I am so happy as we love our dogs and this has proven to us that raw meat and bone is best. If dogs were to eat cereal and fruit, why would they hunt? If they could take the easy option why not find an orchard and crop field and take it easy.
If dogs are carnivores but can survive on man made, moulded cereal flavoured with fats and it is so good for them, why don’t the keepers at zoo’s make life easy for themselves and feed the big carnivores cheap kibble ‘as seen on tv’?
We have 7 very strong and healthy dogs, who have not seen a vet in years, it would take a very good argument to convince me to change their diet.

Uhm, Dayron, she does not appear to be talking about YOU, but rather some link that she followed, lol.

Here we go again. Dogs are carnivores. Putting dogs, panda’s and bears in the same boat is ridiculous. Panda’s and dogs have different digestive tracts. One is a fool to think a dog doesn’t need a considerable portion of meat protien in its diet. Even Natura Pet understands that. Oh, they make Inova and Evo. They were the first to start putting higher meat contents in their foods 12 years ago. They understood the needs of a dog. Now look what Natura started. Having said all of that, now if a cat can’t break down and absorb plant matter, why is it that so many good pet foods put good grains and plant matter in their foods nad they do well.? This really is simple science. The cat and the dog eat the same thing in the wild. Nothing has changed. Dogs however are better able to break down plant matter in their systems vs cats. Not by a large margine. I try to make this simple and short and leave room for thought. Ms. Aimee, Take your red flags and put them in your ears. No one told you to come on here and be an English Major or teacher. Now if U are getting paid for it, do your job well. If not, piss off. As long as our points are well understood, thats all that matters. Please, become a road scholar and get a multimillion dollar bank account. Until then, shut your piehole. Even if you do all those things, get paid for it because that is what matters. It’s good to be proper, but if I’m in a hurry most of the time and it’s of real profit or work related, who cares? I still say mother nature know’s best and that a dog is nothing more than a domesticated wolf. Feed it like so. Oh, for dogs who eat vegitarian diets, in la mens terms; they are messed up.

I’ll jump in here. I fall into the dogs are omnivores camp. While anatomy gives us a lot of clues as to diet, there are exceptions to “the rules” as Mother Nature is very adaptable. The Giant Panda anatomically resembles a carnivore but eats a natural diet of bamboo. But I always thought that it was the physiology of the dog that landed them into the omnivore class. Specifically, their ability to down regulate the enzyme pathways involved in gluconeogenesis which allows them to compensate for eating a low protein diet if they have to. (Cats can’t do this very well if at all. This is why the protein requirement of the cat is higher than the dog.) Also a dog’s nutritional requirements reflect an ability to meet nutritional needs without requiring animal based tissue from the diet whereas cats, true carnivores can not.

Warning: I’m opening a can of worms here! As I read the linked articles red flags went up. Based on the errors in content, incorrect English, and in my view lack of proper citations I guessed that either the authors’ degrees were not in science or they weren’t what I’d consider legitimate degrees. So I checked. The authors “Doctorates” are from on online “school” where you pay around 6,000 for your degree program. It sounds like a nice school as you can get credit for life experience and you don’t have to take any tests because they know some people have test anxiety (except for an open book non proctored final for each class). It appears that as long as you fill out the worksheets fthey send you in a timely manner and write 3 approx. 10 page papers you “graduate” Hmmm…

Huh, you walk your dog late, like me, Shameless, lol. Not always, but I often walk my dogs late at night, before starting my shift.

Dayron – Your civil and mature comment with great wisdom is greatly appreciated. What a nice man and friendly debater.

Let me know when your secret contract is over, so I can be privy to your scientific results? I’m very impressed with your language and discourses and it really shows how scientific and professional you actually are. It’s always refreshing.

None of it changes my personal opinion. That’s the beauty of my own independent mind that Nature gave me, as it has with all of us. We and bears are ‘true omnivores’. Cats are obligate carnivores’ whilst also ‘minute’ omnivores. Dogs are omnivores….neither ‘true’ or ‘obligate’, but are certainly carnivorously biased. There are many an expert on the subject that advocate they’re carnivores, and about the same in number, that advocate they’re omnivores. I believe both. I’m unmoved on my own opinion, no matter what is said on here. But debating is fun and let’s keep it fun, instead of aggravated.

Shameless, great video. Sounds like my neighbor’s huskies. lol

I checked my our department’s solicitor (lawyer) for kicks. And anyway, I explained why the question etc etc, and he stated as I thought. Officially, a court of law, if such was hypothetically argued, would find that the dog is an omnivore in the strict definition of the word.

I rest my case. Get it? Case….solicitor….court of law, lol. I know, that was pretty lame.

Hi Gordon, you are very much the clever one. I’m under contract right now and really have said and done too much on this site. None the less, you read and see my findings all of the time. I must not put anything on this site. Its just not that important to me to risk getting in trouble.

Ok folks, Im back. I’m trying to reajust myself. Gordon? I wonder about you sometimes. But yes, we are ever learning, but never coming into the truth of the knowledge it seems. Just let nature teach some things through biological process. Being who I am I try to simplify most things. I make it simple for the common person. They don’t need to have my education, schooling, study, time, travel, field work, experience, or associations. They simply need basic foundation and understanding which will take one a long way. Past, present and progressive biology. Do it God’s/natures way and feed a carnivore a carnivorous diet. The dog that is. Where is it that people think cats don’t Scavenge? I’ve seen lions, tigers, bobcats, lynx and panthers do it plenty of times. By the way, feral cats come and do it on my rance all the time. They eat the scraps, tear up the trash and eat it and one time a dead lamb. My border collie killed 3 of those cats when she caught them for some reason. Don’t get caught up in the hype and propaganda. Dogs in the wild only eat their prey’s gut 10% of the time. Wild cats do it 97% of the time. Let me say this. I went to Michigan and Chattanooga to check out some English Shepherd pups, the woman in Tenn was feeding her dogs Proplan. Her pups looked fine. Well, the old farmer in northern Michigan feeds his dogs raw meat, raw eggs with the shell , flax oil and some seaweeds. Guess what his pups and dogs looked fine, but it looked like I was looking at them in HD. But, I didnt know what he was feeding them until I asked him when he took my down payment. So guess what? I’m going back over to Michigan to get a English Shepherd pup. The reason he went to this type of diet is because the great granfather of thos pups developed a grain intolerance along with cancer of some sort. Famer Jakes swiched over all his dogs at the time until now. They look great and the old Dog’s cancer went in to remission at age 6. 10 and a half years later he’s still thriving. He fed his carnivore a carnivorous diet. In all of my career; that case is one of the best. I’m tired. Good Nite,

Jonathan – Have a read of what I say about Dr. Syme’s statement under TOTW. I don’t fully agree with everything he says, but I quoted the 2 paragraphs of his above to make the point that I believe that dogs are omnivores more so, over carnivores. Although, I believe they can be also labeled as ‘carnivores’ Both labels suffice. However the term ‘obligate carnivore’ is entirely the cat’s description and not the dog’s.

And so re his grains’ theory, I too, am very skeptical, and one of my questions to him, would be, what grains does he think are found by the scavenger, in the stomachs of the herbivorous preys? Raw cereal grains? In the wild, I would hardly think so, but to this day, I am a believer in an open mind and one of that realises, we still learn till the day we die.

Anyway, I’m off, and remember boys and girls….A raw meaty bone a day, keeps the Vet away!

Dayron – The following link, I was about to post under the currently interesting grain debate occurring under ‘TOTW’ thread, but I refreshed up on it and it reminded me on yet another expert opinion that dogs are omnivores. It is from another well renown Australian Vet, Dr. Bruce Syme. He has a number of interesting articles including reference to the famous Dr. Pottenger M.D. cat study, between 1932 and 1942.

http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66&Itemid=82

A couple of his quotes from the page in the above link…..

“Dogs are considered omnivores, not obligate carnivores (unlike cats). This means that they are able to survive on a diet that does not contain meat. The most basic indication here being that they can survive on a diet of plant based material….grains, fruit, vegetable matter etc. It simply stands to reason that if an animal can survive like this, then their bodies must be fully equipped to digest and process these types of food groups.”

“Cats are true carnivores, which means they must eat meat to survive. They are not scavengers like dogs, and will only eat fresh prey. They do eat the gut content of their prey (grains and all), like dogs, and do consume small amounts of fresh green plant material, but in general, their diet is much higher in fresh meat content. Grain material would make up only 10-15 % of their diet.”

Dayron-

Your typing is just fine, lol.

We “rural NY’ers” have learned to live in harmony with nature for the most part. From time to time, packs of coyote and coydogs do become killing machines, and then they are hunted. However, one can not make a blanket statement and tell me they (coy and coyote) should be killed, and yet, you seek to release a new, larger predator in my back yard. Coy, coyote or wolf, if its attempting to bring down one of my pet livestock, I have a shotgun that says it would only happen once, lol.

Adirondack Park is one of NY’s biggest recreation areas. Lots of campers, hikers etc, and it abuts a vast agricultural area as well. I can see opposition from the farmers due to potential livestock loss, and from the uninformed “weekend nature warriors”. However, my personal opinion is that the bear are a bigger risk to outdoor recreation than wolves would be. We also have bear and miracle of miracles(said sarcastically) since we are smart enough to not leave trash out, they run through our property to raid the neighbors, then race back through to their den-one the neighboring acreage which is also undeveloped.

Young coydogs/coyotes are not that smart. One actually came up into the yard very early morning and was “thinking” of eating a neighborhood elderly cat. Thankfully he paused long enough to give me time to race out of my kitchen armed with the kitchen broom-so intent on the kitty, that he did not notice me there until he felt the “thwack” of the broom. Another time I was bottle feeding a baby goat and one came up, within 10 ft of me-he got beamed in the head with the baby bottle, lol. My point being that often people associate ‘carnivore” with a man eating, flesh ripping beast and hence why I think most people would prefer not to envision their dog as a carnivore, but rather an omnivore.

Melissa, that was funny. I’m not upset in any way. In dealing with some of my working counter parts, it’s the way we interact with with one another. So please fogive me. Adirondack Park is correct. It has been a hassle to get this pushed through. The pressure from the other side just wont give. It has been 3 years in the process. Melissa, you must live in a rural area. Yes, most of those coyotes up there tend to be very large. What needs to happen is those coydogs need to be sterilized or killed like they do in N.Carolina and S.Carolina. It is nice to live on the edge of the wilderness. Well, you folks have a nice weekend, just got to Alaska and my work is cut out for me. They have such a beautiful and untouched ecosystem here, but the politics may change that if not careful. I better shut my mouth. God Bless, PS. is it me? These tablets are hard to really be productive on. I can’t half type worth nothing on these things.

Dayron – lol @ “What’s with your requoting everything? Jesus.”. Don’t take that to heart, as most of the female commenters here do that. Men do it as well as myself occasionally, but it reflects the analogy that men are from Mars, and women from Venus. Dayron, they are great at proof reading and at holding others accountable at what they say. So be careful, lmao. It’s actually a fantastic trait that most women in general have because that’s what makes them amongst the most loyal of employees and in addition to the fact (I’ll probably be attacked here and perhaps should “duck for cover” as Dr. aimee often says) that most businesses use women as receptionists, PA’s and secretaries, for window dressing, e.g. pretty face = pretty image, they do make better same than men, IMO.

With regard to what dogs should be classed as…omnivores or carnivores….I’m unmoved with my own opinion. However, really, either label is really just word, and therefore trivial or arbitrary in the bigger scheme of things. The latter (bigger scheme of things) being that dogs are designed to eat a BARF diet. Something that those top drawer kibbles also try and mimic, which is a good thing. I just hope we can trust their claims of what ingredients they are compiled of. Those that don’t like to use the term ‘BARF’ and prefer to use another, has no bearing as the semantics of all proponents for the domestic dogs eating a diet closely relating to the wolf, are the same.

However, your statement re fasting our fury friends on a periodic basis, I totally agree with, and have myself read certain literature to that effect. This is an act that also mimics how their system can cope with fasting as the wolf in the wild has no choice but to resort to fasting, as they don’t have the benefit of human intervention. And thus, making our domestic canine counterparts fast on a periodic basis, is actually beneficial to their immune system, energy reserves, and natural instincts. Having said this, I’d be less inclined to fast class 1 (Toy breed) dogs as they are way more sensitive to any adverse effects that might arise form fasting. At least for more than a day. Whilst their mtDNA are no different to larger class dogs, their nDNA are so far extreme on one end of the Nuclear DNA spectrum, that fasting for long periods could be detrimental to them in a physical manner, because of their physical size.

The new focus is reintroducing wolves into the New England area and upstate NewYork. Pray that the bill passes.

Uhm, there are wolves in upstate NY..Not many of course, but they seem to have self- returned to the area. I personally find that interesting as Moose recently have migrated into upstate NY as well. Lovely animals.

Thanks Mike!!!! Appreciate your reply and warm welcome!!! I can be a bit overzealous as you’ve seen in some comments — I used the word “clearly” in a post to you. After posting and then re-reading, realized it was a bit heavy and maybe even rude. However, it was too late to remove it…

Please know that even if I challenge you on one topic or another, I highly respect you and what you have done here!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks again!!!

Okay, so I’m still not sure — we can or can not go off topic? If yes, then the fluoride topic we participated in was a no no too — correct??