[jakes mom]

Well, somebody ate the raw I put out for their dinner. Don’t know who or how many. I put a spoonful on each plate along with their usual canned. They all looked at it and sniffed, then looked at me very suspicious! lol! I didn’t see anybody even take a nibble. I left them alone and went to look again later on. The raw was gone!
I agree with their logic, too. But as I told them in my email, I don’t want to pay for something they won’t eat. Don’t mind giving something from the sample pack to Jake if the cats don’t like it but certainly won’t waste money buying it again. We can always supplement the raw with occasional cans for variety if necessary.
BTW in case you didn’t notice, the site has tips for transitioning to raw. Pretty much common sense, but worth a read so you’ll be ready to go when you get your samples.

[crazy4cats]

Jakes Mom-
Yes, that is a problem when you have a whole herd like us. You never know for sure who ate and who didn’t at times. We need to put up video cameras! Same with the litter boxes. If someone has yucky poops, not always sure who.

I was wondering about the food being cold. I didn’t think mine would like it like that either. I spose warming it up a bit in the microwave would defeat the purpose of raw, wouldn’t it? It’s so frustrating getting them to eat something new. I’m with you though, on being tired of all the cans and the ridiculous cost of it!

Does Jake like it? I hope you have eventual success!

[jakes mom]

I think the cold might have something to do with them turning up their noses at first, since it disappeared a little later on. The literature I got from Darwin’s says the food can be cooked, sometimes cats just won’t eat raw or tummy can’t handle it. But I can cook a homemade diet cheaper than cooking Darwin’s so that’s not going to be an option for me! Might try cooking a bit of it “rare” to get them started if things don’t improve after a few more meals. They’re used to room temp canned or the Primal fd which I make with hot water. I was a mean Mommy this am, gave them a spoonful of raw on each plate and a bit less canned than usual so we’ll see what’s gone when I get home from work!

[jakes mom]

Forgot the other part of your question, lol! Of course Jake likes it! Has a hopeful look on his face when I come from the kitty’s room! He loves food, period. Only thing he ever turned down was a piece of celery. Always laugh when I read the forums and somebody’s complaining about a picky dog. I’ve never had that problem with any of my dogs!

[Bobby dog]

I bought the cats Triumph GF Turkey & Giblets and GF Chic & Whitefish canned foods. They are pate’s and my cats liked them. I feed their turkey pate’ in my rotation. The Chic & Whitefish is more for the seniors when they won’t eat, but I did try it out on all of them and it went over well. Triumph is canned by Simmons.

jakes mom:
Why do I have a garden again? Even though I downsized, it doesn’t seem like I have. Bobby’s contribution to garden work was peeing on one of the catnip plants. lol

weezerweeks:
How are your colony of kitties? I am not sure if you read my post about large sized canned foods so I am posting again with an addition: Friskies, 4Health (Tractor Supply Co. & Del’s Feed house brand), Wellness, EVO, Innova, and add Triumph.

Triumph is budget friendly, although not as much as Friskies. You can find Triumph in some stores or on-line:
http://www.chewy.com/s?dept=all&query=triumph&nav-submit-button=Submit+Query

You could also check out the parent company’s other lines that are sold in grocery stores, Wal-Mart, and Target etc. for other possible options. Here’s their site:
http://www.sunshinemills.com/

[crazy4cats]

I’m going to have to see if I can find the triumph canned cat food. A lot of my go-to budget friendly brands are now getting their noses turned up to. They haven’t been eating Nutro Max, Authority, 4H or Chicken Soup lately. They only eat the FF, Sheba, Friskies and halo. Maybe they just are not hungry enough. Maybe I should cut back on how much I’m feeding them. Let them starve a little. LOL! Pampered brats!

[jakes mom]

Bobbydog, I haven’t gotten far in my yard, either.
So far, my old guy is eating the Darwins, I actually witnessed it, not sure about anyone else. Altho, you know cats, he may decide tomorrow that he doesn’t like it anymore. Tried turkey and chix, duck is next.

[Bobby dog]

This makes me laugh:
https://youtu.be/z6BNblHET_c

[Pitlove]

that is the cutest thing ever. what a cool squirrel!

[jakes mom]

Yeah, saw that video on facebook or somewhere. Amazing!
Raw update…not much progress. Dustin will eat all 3 flavors, nobody else is happy. Oh well, got a couple more weeks before my first shipment is scheduled. I’ll be postponing at least, maybe cancel. We’ll see. I had high hopes….

[Pitlove]

jakes mom- Keep at it! I was watching Dr.Beckers video on transitioning cats to raw and from what she said, if they have a dry food addiction or are just stubborn it can takes months up to a year to get them switched to raw! She has great tips for it in the video though if you want to check it out.

Patience seems to be the key with cats. Maybe they will be smart and take Dustins lead on this one!

[jakes mom]

I know, patience is key, lol! I’ve been bribing with a bit of cooked chicken on top, and pushed into the raw with a fork. Julie is pulling the chicken out, so at least she’s getting a taste of the raw, might decide she likes it. She likes plain raw chicken, eats chicken liver, hearts and gizzards so I have hope for her. This is different tho, “richer” I’d guess, with the meat, bones, liver, heart, neck, etc all ground together. At least I was already done with the first step. They’re already eating canned not dry, and fed twice a day, so I don’t have the “free feeding” hurdle to get over. BTW, I was figuring out the amounts I need to feed every day if I ever get that far, lol. I don’t know how much your girl weighs, but just to give you an idea …at feeding 2% of cat’s body weight (you might want to feed a kitten 3%) a 7# cat would get about 2.2 ounces per day.

[Pitlove]

I’ve read too that texture and even shape can be a huge factor for cats. maybe there is a way to make the raw mixture more chunky like canned food? im not really sure. it sounds like you have a lot of the difficult parts out of the way. i had such an easy time transitioning my kitten to wet food. she would get dry in the morning and canned at night and she actually PREFERED the canned food! it was awesome. she only weighs 6lbs at 8mos. Very small for her age but not underweight at all. vet told me she was a “teacup”??

darwins site recommended for her age feeding 4%. idk if thats right but it said about 2lbs a week if I remember correctly.

[jakes mom]

You’re probably right about the 4% for your kitten, I was using adult %. You’d feed a kitten more calories, just like you’d feed a puppy more. I may try to heat it up a tad, as Darwin’s suggests, maybe get their noses more involved, lol.
I’ve never heard of a teacup cat, heard of some toy breed dogs referred to as a teacup. That’s cute! I think her weight is fine, too. My Julie is only about 7. I made a tiny “meatball” of raw and cook chix mixed together this am and Julie had to eat some raw altho she tried really hard to avoid it, lol.

[crazy4cats]

Yes, I am getting very impatient with being patient! My darn cats seem to be getting pickier and pickier. And they are not like dogs where they will most likely eventually eat it. They simply will not eat if they don’t like it and no matter how hungry the probably are! My quest for a better quality budget canned food seems to be coming to and end here soon. LOL!

[Pitlove]

speaking of budget foods my kitten could barely finish a whole 4health can 🙁 she seriously can only finish a 3oz can its crazy! i was so excited to try 4health with her too. Might just split the can up

[crazy4cats]

Well, I finally did it! I planted two flower pots of cat grass and one of cat nip. I believe the one I planted first is wheat grass. It came up nice and quick. I put the pot in their outdoor enclosure yesterday and two of them were chomping on it within minutes. They are indoor cats only, so I wasn’t sure if they would know what to do with it. It looks like the oat grass is coming up now, but nothing is happening in the cat nip pot yet.
When I see cat nip In the stores, it is dried. Will (if it ever grows) the cats go crazy over it like the dried? Will they eat it or roll in it?

[Pitlove]

im not really sure. our catnip dies so much faster than the wheat grass at work and my manager told me i could just water them and they would grow back but they did not grow back lol. i highly doubt it would have the same effect if it was completely dead and dried out.

[Bobby dog]

My cats get more excited about fresh cat nip. I have a hedgerow of it about 20 feet long in my garden. The plants get about 3 feet tall. Now that they are older they don’t go down there as much. It used to be like the Serengeti down there, my cats against the rest of the neighborhood cats. I am transplanting one of the plants somewhere near my house this afternoon so they can enjoy it. I usually break off a few branches and snap them in half so the aroma wafts through the air. They all roll in it, eat it, chew it, and play with the pieces on and off through out the day until they are all mangled up.

Years ago when my cat that is no longer with me had a UTI, my Vet told me to get several cat friendly plants since he was indoor at the time. She said that he needed to have things in his life that he would have access to if he were an outdoor cat to reduce his stress. One of the other things she suggested was adding litter boxes (more choices) and using enough litter so he could dig a nice spot to go in just like he would if he was an outdoor cat.

[Pitlove]

alright guys, new issue arising for me with the kitty. 3 times now she has thrown up eating beef. Once it was nature’s variety, second it was fancy feast beef and now this morning she got a little bit of the beef & salmon Primal raw that I got in the sample pack from my pet store and threw that up and wont eat the rest. HOWEVER, last night she got a can of Merrick beef pate to test the waters…no throw up. suggestions? do I take beef out of her diet? Im so confused as to why she threw up NV fancy feast and raw beef but not Merrick…

edit: as i just finished typing this i look up to see her eating the rest of whats in her bowl (Max cat kitten chicken &liver pate mixed with the Primal beef& salmon) lol. I was about to go pick it up and throw it out

• This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by Pitlove.

[jakes mom]

Has she eaten those flavors in the past? No problem? My first thought was that it wasn’t the beef itself, but something else in the can that didn’t agree with her. Maybe just a coincidence that it was beef?

[crazy4cats]

Hi Pitlove-
Those darn kitties are so hard to figure out sometimes! Did any of the foods that made her barf have gravy in them? Sometimes foods with gravy will make one of my cats throw up. Also Fancy Feast Classic recipes sometimes will also. Hope you figure it out. It’s tough to watch them not feel good.

[Bobby dog]

Hi pitlove:
Good question from jm. Some of my cats tend to throw up when they eat gravy laden canned foods too, I mostly avoid those styles. The amount of ingredients used to make a gravy consistency do not seem to agree with some of them. Are there any common ingredients other than beef in the recipes you fed? One reason I only feed the two FF recipes that I do is because they do not list sodium nitrate as a flavor/color enhancer. Not sure if the FF beef recipe you fed had it or not, some do some don’t. When I first started on the quest to find a better diet for my cats it seemed to be a common ingredient in some of the grocery store foods that up-set a few of them.

Since my zoo is able to eat a wide variety of foods, if I run into recipes or brands they don’t like or cause digestive upset I just don’t feed it. It only takes two times for them to turn down a food or have some type of digestive upset for me to take it out of my rotation. Fortunately, it doesn’t happen often.

[Pitlove]

Hey guys thanks for the responses. So the Nature’s Variety beef is just pate. they only make pates. same thing with the FF but it does have sauce to it as many still do even if its pate. She has eaten a wide range of foods that have sauce including Nutro Max Cat and Natural Choice with no problem so thats why Im even more stumped.

Bdog- Im going to have to go over your grocery store cat food list you gave me again in this thread to see which ones you feed. I might have to limit her to those. She just ate the FF turkey & giblets no problem. I bought the FF variety pack Classic Tender Beef feast, Tender Chicken Feast and Turkey & Giblets Feast. The only one she cant tolerate is the beef.

I think Im gonna need to look further down the ingrident list and compare them all and I need to see what the others had that Merrick didnt since she ate it no problem.
The raw I kinda understood because I know it can be a shock to their system when they first get it. Im gonna try Turkey raw with her tomorrow morning.

JM- She threw up instantly the first time eating both FF and NV

[Bobby dog]

Well other than this being an on going symptom that continues, I would then suggest you see a Vet, it may just be something as simple as beef doesn’t always agree with your kitty. Sometimes over thinking their diet can make things too complicated and frustrating for you too.

Yeah, there is always some type of liquid with most foods, C4C and me just found that when we fed recipes that have gravy in the title or add somewhere on the description of the food that they are in sauce or gravy some of our kitties have digestive issues.

[Pitlove]

I feel like I am overthinking the diet a lot and I’ve been doing that a lot lately with both my animals. I wonder if they use something with Beef recipes that they dont use in others. I really dont know. Ill have to compare.

I have wanted to take her to the vet anyway for a check-up so now I think would be a good time. Hopefully she will address this issue with me without suggesting a prescription diet as I wont feed them.

She has Nurto Max chunks in sauce/gravy right now and no vomiting from those so im not really sure what is going on. I might just take beef out of the equation for now at least with FF and NV and see if that helps.

Do you think its worth testing her on other brands with a beef formula or is that just cruel to her stomach?

[Bobby dog]

If she were my cat I wouldn’t bother since she has such a variety of proteins, recipes, and brands she does well on; that’s just me though. I take that same approach with Bobby. My thought is why make them uncomfortable if I don’t have to.

[jakes mom]

I agree with Bobby dog. I would just stick with what’s working for her. Don’t drive yourself nuts. Vet visit would be a good idea but I wouldn’t worry about her, really. Probably just an ingredient that doesn’t agree with her, hard to figure out which one.
BTW, update on the raw transition…not going well, brats! Still only have Dustin eating it with enthusiasm. I delayed my first shipment. Darwin’s customer service is great, no problem with rescheduling. They sent me an email reminding me that the shipment was scheduled for the 10th and I replied, asking them to hold off for a couple of weeks.

[crazy4cats]

Pitlove-
You’ll have to make a throw up chart. LOL! I try to write down the day and name of food thrown up. If it shows up twice on the chart, I don’t buy it anymore. I don’t know if we will ever figure those darn cats out. Good luck at the vet. Sometimes they will suggest an Rx canned food just to settle the stomach and then transition back to their regular diet when ready. I don’t think you probably have much to worry about though. How’s the new litter box working out?

Jakes Mom- Bummer about the raw. It is always frustrating when you try out something that you are excited about and they don’t cooperate. That’s true for both our pets and our kids! They both sure can be brats! Glad to hear Darwin’s is being flexible with the auto delivery. I have auto shipments set up with chewy as well and they are also great about delaying and editing my orders.

[jakes mom]

Yes, Darwin’s customer service has been good. I’ve gotten several “how’s it going?” emails from them as well. It’s been frustrating, you’re right! But I’m not giving up yet….

[Pitlove]

bdog- im thinking you’re right. why toture her when i dont need to. i have so many other foods i can choose from that dont make her sick.

c4c- that is a great idea! i love that suggestion. and i love that part about if it shows up twice you stop feeding it. i am totally going to take that idea!

JM- well at least you’ve got one guy eating it! my kitten ate around the primal raw for the most part lol. Im gonna try the turkey with her and see if she likes that better since the one i gave her was beef and we have this beef issue now!

[jakes mom]

It’s strange, Julie won’t eat the Darwin’s, she loves plain ground chix/turkey from the grocery! So I had a new plan tonite. I made a meatball for her with a combo of Darwin’s and store turkey. She ate it, so I have hope of getting her to Darwin’s soon. The other 2 are baby steps, still. A bit of Darwin’s in the usual canned.

[Pitlove]

nice progress JM! Dani ate a little of her Primal raw turkey with her FF turkey (no throw up btw), but shes still hesistant for the raw. I’ll sway her in time tho 😀

[jakes mom]

Yep, we’ll get there eventually. I’ll be happy to get Julie on board with the Darwin’s at least. Maybe the other 2 will come around, too. They are eating canned with a bit of raw so they’re not completely put off by the smell or anything like that.

[Pitlove]

gave my dog one primal nugget of the cat food (cant hurt can it? serious question). he ate it just fine lol. mixed it in with his dry and canned food. the kitty is still eating her canned mixed with primal. i mixed it in really good tonight so she cant just pick it out lol!

[jakes mom]

Oh geez, if cat food was bad for dogs Jake would have been gone a long time ago, lol. And so would Bobby, I think! Jake eats all the cat food rejects. He’s had cat Primal, too.

[Bobby dog]

Bobby tells me all the time cat food is fine for dogs when I catch him chowing down on it. He gets to eat any new foods the cats don’t like; it never goes to waste with Bobby around. AAFCO standards for minerals are similar for cats and dogs. It’s fine for dogs to eat cat food, but dog food is not fine for cats because they need added taurine in their food that dog food does not typically have in it. Some do, Fromm’s canned dog foods is one, Nature’s Variety frozen raw and canned dog food used to, but not anymore, and Wysong makes a kibble that is for both cats and dogs. I am sure there are other brands that add taurine to their dog recipes too.

[Pitlove]

I believe the dry NV still contains taurine, not that that helps me at all. I was actually thinking about doing the NV dry cat food in my rotation for my dog because of how high the protein would be. Definitely gonna try it at some point now!

Ill be giving my pup some more primal tonight then as well 😛

[Bobby dog]

I think Naturella fed one of their kibble recipes to Bruno, maybe catch up with her. One of the regulars, can’t remember who, feeds a freeze dried raw cat recipe in their rotation too. I have only fed cat food as a topper for Bobby when none of the cats liked it.

[jakes mom]

I do same as Bobby, dog gets cat food leftovers and stuff they won’t eat. Have never bought a bag of cat food specifically for the dog but I’ve used up a bag of dry cat food on Jake. I don’t see that it would be an issue in rotation but I wouldn’t feed cat food exclusively to a dog.

[Pitlove]

JM- ya I only wanted to try it with the NV since their reps claim the food is interchangable between species. I figured since it would only be for probably a month or less as I only buy small bags of dog food now it couldn’t hurt to try.

BTW im thawing out some primal chicken and salmon for the kitty (and the pup im sure) for tonight. hoping she likes it!

[Bobby dog]

Hello all:
Here’s some cat food recall info. I don’t know if anyone feeds this brand or recipes, thought I would post just in case:
http://nutrish.rachaelray.com/news

[jakes mom]

Raw feeders…how’s the kitty poos? I had heard that raw fed animals have smaller firmer stools but the litter boxes have been pretty messy these last few weeks. I thought maybe it was just the transition period but still messy! Do you think it will get better or does this mean that they’re not tolerating it well? Don’t seem to be in any distress, it’s just the nasty boxes for me.

[Bobby dog]

Hi j m:
I have read that too, smaller firmer stools. TBH, none of my animals stools are large or soft anyway; everyone seems to be utilizing their diet to the fullest extent. lol I don’t feed my kitties raw for every meal. It ends up being about 1/wk. That is all they will do. Sometimes Archie will eat it two days in a row, but no more than that. I have not experienced any digestive upsets. That would be concerning to me. The food may not agree with them, could be a health issue that warrants a Vet visit, or perhaps the fiber content in their new diet is not quite their magic number, IDK. Nobody likes a nasty litter box!

[jakes mom]

I doubt it’s a health issue, really blame the food but don’t know what to do about it. Another person suggested it may be the cat “detoxing”, which I thought about, but I didn’t think it would last that long. Here’s the dilemma, I’ve already postponed the next delivery but now I don’t know whether to cancel, or get the delivery and try longer with some probiotics maybe, or forget Darwin’s and try another brand. Frustrating.

[Pitlove]

I agree with whoever told you they are detoxing. Its very common (from what i’ve heard) for animals suddenly being fed a much better diet to have diaherra. Not sure how long it should last, someone else would have to weigh in on that. If you (like me and others) have fed the occassional by-product food or “low end” food I can imagine that now on raw they have much more to detox from their body. OR even more so if they were on dry kibble and not human grade canned.

Best suggestion I can give you is call a holistic vet in your area, someone who will understand tranisitioning to raw for felines and ask if what you’re experiencing is typical or atypical and if they feel your kitties should be seen by a vet. I would keep trying the raw. I think their bodies are just in shock from a healthy diet.

[crazy4cats]

Ok, Jake’s Mom, lets get graphic! Is the poo just a little loose, or is it down right runny and squirty? I’d definitely be concerned if it is very runny. That is much more dangerous to a small animal. You certainly don’t want to risk them getting dehydrated over trying to feed them raw!

In dogs, I have heard of the poop getting a little loose and maybe even some mucous due to detoxing, but don’t know much about how kitties react to the change. Let us know what you decide!

[Pitlove]

C4C is right. Dani had runny squirty poos when she ate Nutro Natural Choice and I stopped feeding it instantly. Nutro Max she is fine on though..so weird.

[Bobby dog]

c4c:
I agree as well, I don’t full around too much with the kitties when it comes to digestive issues. They need their moisture. I don’t run into problems too much with my crew in general, thank goodness. Bobby vomited twice on a new kibble I was trying out one time, that’s pretty much all I need to throw out a food and rotate to a new one. Same with the kitties, if there is a negative reaction in some way it’s gone. IMO there are enough foods on the market to choose from, no need to make them uncomfortable, or worse create a health issue.

pitlove:
JM’s cats eating by-products should not be an issue. She does feed foods that have by-products (organs etc.), but they do not contain useless by-products (feet, hooves, etc.). If you want to feed a raw diet you need by-products (organs etc.) to make it complete; muscle meat alone will not do that. I would rather feed a by-product (organs etc.) than a vitamin or synthetic vitamin to make a diet balanced any day regardless if it’s canned or raw; there is allot of nutrients in them. Here’s the ingredients for Darwins Turkey cat formula:

Free-Range Meat (98.25%): Turkey Necks, Turkey Gizzards, Turkey Livers, Turkey Hearts, Turkey Thighs.

Special Nutrient Mix (1.5%): Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Psyllium Husk Powder, Taurine, Potassium Chloride, Inulin, Choline Chloride, Sea Salt, Vitamin E, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12, EDDI (Iodine), Vitamin D3, Folic Acid.

Fish Oils (.25%): Sardine Oil

http://www.darwinspet.com/our-raw-foods/our-raw-cat-food/natural-selections-for-cat-turkey/

[Pitlove]

bdog- you misunderstood me. I am all for by-products as I am aware they are in raw and im happy to see them there. I meant foods like Fancy Feast that contain anonymous by-products whose quality is questionable. I was not sure if she (like some of us) occassionally feed stuff from the grocery store. I was suggesting that the transition to much higher quality meat AND by-products could cause a detox effect.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by Pitlove.

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