[dog34747]

I have an 8 year old male, retired racing greyhound with a very sensitive stomach and allergies. He’s had severe ear infections, nasal congestion, compulsive licking and digestive problems. He is also hyper allergic to flea bites, with them even turning in to mini staph infections at each bite. Over the past 3 1/2 years I have tried nearly every brand on the market from Purina on up to Orijen. If it’s sold anywhere between the specialty boutique shops and PetsMart, I have probably tried it. I’ve tried grain-in, grain-free, corn-free, soy-free, gluten-free, chicken-free… etc. etc. I have tried chicken, turkey, fish, lamb, beef, bison, and I think one even had ostrich or something. Basically I’ve tried everything. I have even tried the high-end frozen raw diet food, he just simply won’t touch it. He does not appear to be allergic to chicken specifically, I’ve tried poultry based foods and foods with absolutely no poultry of any kind and the result is the same.

Every single grain-free food causes, horrendous breath, loose stool and severe gas. No amount of pumpkin, yogurt, supplement pro-biotics or pre-biotics seems to fix it, sometimes those relieve things for a day or two but never permanently. It seems directly linked to the percent of protein, above a certain point and these issues start. He seems ok around 22% but usually anything in that range is not grain-free.

The grain-in foods (and treats) increase his nasal congestion (like a kid sucking the snot in vs. blowing his nose, not the same as a reverse sneeze) and the obsessive licking, and they also exacerbates the ear infections. He has had the ear infections recurring, or perhaps even continually but low level, since I got him. He was on a grain-in food when I got him and I immediately switched to grain-free but the ear never fully cleared up even on grain-free. The ear is finally cleared up (for now) after lots of meds though I’m worried his diet will bring it back.

I have tried some raw foods and veggies but they seem to pass through him without even being digested at all.

Any kind of food with potato as a major ingredient seems to act as an immediate diuretic, causing him to be constantly thirsty, panting and drinking and therefore needing to go out 7+ per day every few hours and even having accidents in the house which otherwise he has never had before. This includes all those limited ingredient foods because they all seems to be potato based.

The only time I have had any luck with a food is with Iams Sensitive Naturals Ocean Fish. Yes, I know it doesn’t rank highly and many people here are against it, but it was literally the only food that stopped the breath/stool/gas problems in their tracks, nearly overnight. I’ve heard others say they had similar good luck with Iams and attribute it to the beet pulp, not sure if that’s really true but I can say it worked for my dog. He went about eating it with no digestive issues for 9 months or so but the silent ear infection got worse and worse and the nasal issues got worse. Then we tried Eukanuba Wild Salmon/Rice and the ear/nasal continued to get worse and the licking started. The only benefit to the Eukanuba was his coat was suddenly full, fluffy and soft and the traditional greyhound bald spots were even filling in. I was bothered by the increase in allergies so I’ve gone back to looking for something else.

So I’ve since re-tried several other grain-free foods and the Biljac Sensitive formula, all produce the same old problems. Re-tried a limited potato food, same problem.

I’d like to note he has been tested repeatedly for worms, giardia, heartworms, etc. and all negative. He has had bloodwork taken regularly and it is all absolutely perfect, including thyroid. His teeth have been cleaned by the vet recently and are good. He has absolutely no medical issues outside of the allergies and stomach sensitivities. Also, several vets and others suggested giving him claritan or benedryl to relieve the nasal and skin related reactions but it seems to do nothing for him.

I’m sorry this post is so long, thanks for reading all of it, I was trying to give the full background so folks know what I’ve already tried on this great food adventure. I’m looking for any suggestions, advice, testimonials, whatever on food and treats. I’m willing to try any food to get him to be comfortable, as long as it doesn’t require a second mortgage to pay for it. Thanks in advance!

[SandyandMila]

You will probably be able to find a lot locally (as far as meats, rmbs, organ meat, etc), that you just weren’t looking for before. That’s happened to me, I just found green tripe at a natural food store. It makes making homemade raw a lot more easier.

[pugmomsandy]

Aussie.mom

“Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr Karen Becker/Beth Taylor is good for beginners too. It has raw and cooked recipes, with or without bone. It also has a vitamin mix recipe. She uses ingredients that are easy to find.

[SummerRainAussies]

Thanks SandyandMila!

I looked that website up and it seem wonderful!
Im really glad that i ran across this site, it seems as though it may help me out alot! Real people i can talk to! 🙂
I cant wait to get started! 🙂

[losul]

Hi HDM.

Yeah, the taste of Amazing grass does take getting used to. lol. We don’t use the flavored ones. I guess the green tea could be a concern for the animals if it contained very much of it or if giving alot of it.

About the purple dulse, I always use it in place of kelp -small amounts. The taste takes some getting used to it too, more than a little fishy hah. Seems kind of addictive once used to it. Powdered good on popcorn and as a substitute for salt.

Many times kelp is harvested in heavily polluted waters, and supposedly tends to really absorb those nasties. The dulse usually comes from much cleaner waters. Mine comes from Nova Scotia.

[Cyndi]

Atleast we all know better now.

[SandyandMila]

Check out dogaware.com as HDM suggested, there’s great resources on there and also a list of suppliers. You definitely came to the right place. I’m new to raw feeding as well (1 month now) and doing half homemade and half premade raw. I’m getting more comfortable with making homemade and enjoy learning on this site.

[SummerRainAussies]

HDM

Thank you so much! I will absolutely be purchasing that book later today. Hopefully it will be pretty self explanatory 😉
I had NO idea it could be that inexpensive to homemake raw. Wow crazy! I have looked at some butchers in my area and they all want to charge me a lot. Do you have any suggestions for finding a place that will charge me wholesale? Maybe a online distributer?
I’m new to this.. Is their a specific place I can go to chat with you or is it just in these forms?

[theBCnut]

I used to buy the 40 lb bags, dump them in a metal trash can, and store them in the hot garage. Man, was I stupid!! Pig ignorant!!

[SandyandMila]

I only buy the smaller 4-5 lb bags and rotate, I only have the one dog so it’s not so bad. And now that I feed mostly raw I only have one bag.

[Cyndi]

I used to pour my kibble into a big bin too. I had one on wheels. I would always use most of it up and then pour the new bag in on top of what was left. 🙁 & to make matters worse, it was Purina One, and for a while, Pedigree. 🙁 If only I had known then what I know now….

[Hound Dog Mom]

I remember being shocked when I read the section on kibble storage as well. Luckily when I fed kibble it generally only took Gus 2 – 3 weeks to go through a bag. Wish I had known back then about not pouring it into a bin though – I always used to put it in a bin. So many people buy bags big enough to last a month or two thinking it’s fine and it’ll save money. 🙁

[Cyndi]

Thank you losul! I appreciate all that information. Regarding that section of the book on kibble storage, I was in disbelief when I read all that. It totally makes sense, but I never thought of that when I was feeding kibble. It really explains alot! & good for you for pointing that out to your friend. I always try to nicely pass along information I’ve learned over the past 4 or 5 months since being on this site. Most of the people I try to “educate”, don’t believe me when I tell them what goes into most kibble. I always have to send them links to the articles on this site.

[FreeholdHound]

I believe I’ve seen a few good reviews on a raw thread on Yahoo. I’m curious about them too as I live less than 10 min from them. I would pick up from them as no co- op. I need to look at their food list again.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I add all the ingredients in equal parts but you can add them in whatever ratios you want them in – that’s the nice thing about making your own supplement. Dulse is a type of seaweed, it would be more of a substitute for kelp rather than bee pollen but you really don’t have to stick to a set list of ingredients, go with whatever ingredients you think will benefit your dog most. If you don’t want bee pollen in the supplement you could certainly substitute something else.

[SandyandMila]

That’s why I prefer to make one like yours, I’ll know everything in it. I really like what I read about dulse, that u suggested. Since I already use bee pollen grandular, can I substitute dulse for the bee pollen. Would it be equal parts also? I think it could be beneficial for her allergies.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Aussie Mom –

Homemade raw is actually much cheaper than pre-made raw. I spend just under $200 a month to feed my girls a homemade raw diet – for comparative purposes it would cost me nearly $800 per month to feed Darwin’s (based on the average cost of all of their formulas). There are many ways to keep costs low when feeding a homemade raw diet: 1) Utilize raw meaty bones (chicken backs, turkey necks, etc.) – they are much cheaper per pound than boneless meat and if fed in appropriate quantities will eliminate the need for a calcium supplement; 2) Use heart, gizzards and green tripe for the muscle meat component of the diet – these items are cheap and nutritious, dogs have no need for expensive cuts of meat such as boneless skinless chicken breast or beef sirloin; 3) Buy in bulk. I purchase my meat from a wholesaler that supplies restaurants and grocery stores – nearly every item I buy is under $1 per pound; 4) Purchase supplements from a human nutritional store, in bulk when possible – this is much cheaper than buying supplements marketed towards pets. I purchase all supplements for both myself and my dog from Swanson’s – best prices I’ve seen. I make my own green supplement by purchasing the ingredients I want in 1 lb. bags and combining them.

Hare Today is great – I do purchase a few things from there (mostly Green Tripe). Their products are not human grade as they contain things like green tripe, ground bone, fur/feathers (for whole prey grinds) that are not suitable for human consumption (but very nutritious for animals) and the products aren’t processed in a human food facility. Using Hare Today grinds may be slightly cheaper than pre-made raw but if you really want to cut costs you need to do it from scratch – many butchers will sell RMBs and offal cheaply as they’re not desirable for humans or hook up with a supplier like I did.

If you’re interested in homemade raw I would highly recommend purchasing “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. It’s wonderful book for beginners and includes AAFCO compliant recipes that are easy to make and utilize easy to find and cheap ingredients. Dogaware(dot)com is also a great online resource.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hey losul –

I used tried the Amazing Grass’ Green SuperFood chocolate drink mix – I love the ingredients but it was one of the nastiest things I’ve ever tasted. I went back to Wysong’s whole food supplement capsules – much more palatable lol. I wouldn’t recommend using the Amazing Grass supplement for a dog because it contains green tea and it doesn’t state that it’s been decaffeinated. This is the problem with many green supplements designed for humans.

[Hound Dog Mom]

SandyandMila –

Yes you could rotate a homemade greens supplement with the Nature’s Logic supplement.

[SummerRainAussies]

HDM

There are so many reviews to read here! WOW!
I have been reading a lot of your reviews the last few weeks and you are so educational for raw feeding I thought i would join and try and chat with you.
I have been feeding my Aussies pre-made raw such as darwins, and vital essentials. I have always wanted to make my own raw but was afraid of not making it balanced and That and it seems so expensive for my 22 year old self. But am totally willing to spend more on my dogs than myself. I was reading and discovered Hare-today from a earlier post and that seems like a good place. Human grade?
I was trying to maybe find a good book.
I want to maybe start with half homemade than when i get better at it switch to full homemade.

I dont know what vitamins to give and how much.

[losul]

Hy Cyndi!

By now you have maybe already looked it up. I don’t see any serious problem with what you did. In fact I sometimes do the same with small quantitities to be used fairly quickly. Sometimes it’s just not very feasible to do any other way. I guess I mostly just used the opportunity to plug Steve’s book again, lol. While I don’t consider it to be the absolute gospel, I do think he gives a solid foundation to start, so I highly reccomend to folks thinking about starting a raw and/or fresh diet, balancing foods, and/or improving a dogs processed food diet with minimum effort, along with other good tips and advice, and interesting tidbits like gross inaccuracies of professional laboratory analysis testing.

The only thing he hypothesizes about about mixing in vegetables with ground meats before freezing, is that it can further degrade nutrients in the meats and shortens the shelf life because of additional ice crystal formation further damaging the cell walls and making even more exposed to oxidizing agents. It could be a consideration if prepping and freezing for longer periods, or for commercial raw foods that already contain veggies. He says to insist on knowing the production date and then determine yourself the quality shelf life, not just on some of the manufacturers proclaimed 12 month expiration date.

Other things about frozen storage;

for frozen at constant 0 degress, ground meats and whole poultry giblets, USDA only determines to be considered quality that they are used in 3 to 4 months. Whole meats, roasts, poultry, etc., up to 1 year.

Once frozen, and especially ground meats and fish, or especially those with delicate polyunsturated fats, oxidation, degradation, enzyme activity, etc continues, albeit at a slower pace. Ice crystals also grow steadily, increasing damage to cell walls.

I’ve tried to get one friend interested in feeding her (health problems)dogs better, and I had left the book for her to read. She will still have nothing to do with raw, but I thought I had some of it sinking in until visiting recently I saw she again had a large bag of kibble standing wide open in her too warm laundry room. I scolded her carefully(again), closed the bag and brought it in, went and got my book and insisted She read right then and there the section on kibble storage.

I’m convinced that many of todays illnesses are caused by rancidity, nutrient degradation, molds and mycotoxins, and infestatations, from kibble stored too long or under inadequate conditions, especially with the move away from toxic, but more effective, chemical preservatives, and the move towards more delicate fats, and presumably much less toxic, but also much less efficient natural preservatives. I currently feed only about 25% kibble, majority raw, and the rest canned. Probably in the near future I will go to 100% or near, home prepped raw.

[pugmomsandy]

This might be easier for you: http://www.wysong.net/products/ph-dog-cat-supplement.php (Wysong Biotic pH-)

I shop mostly online but also get items at the health food store. I give d-mannose or other cranberry herbal product, Garden of Life Raw C or Mercola liposomal C, and Bragg apple cider vinegar or Flea Free Supplement (garlic and vinegar). And they take probiotics and colostrum. If their pH does not become more acidic, then I will give a dl-methionine product instead (Wysong Biotic pH-).

[SandyandMila]

Awesome, thanks.

[losul]

Hmm. Now checking the link I just posted to see if it works, it shows another pricing, this time not directly from Amazon.

If you check again sometime later, it will very likely have the product again directly from them.

[losul]

Sandy another thing if you would rather have an all in one, whole food, super greens/antioxidant/enzyme, I think this is a very good one you might consider. We generally use this for ourselves, sometimes the birds, only occaisonally have given to our dog.

If you move cursor to one of the pics along left side, and then to the pic, you can easily see the ingredients. It shows it not available at the moment. I just ordered more last week, the price was substantially lower, and it was still readily available. My price was only $34 and change under subscribe and save for the 28 ounce. evidently the excellent pricing brought big demand. They probably still have smaller sizes available immediately, although maybe too costly.

[SandyandMila]

Yeah I’ll use my checking if I need to, if I can’t find the chlorella powder nearby. But I’m sure I can with a little more searching. My Paypal account I only use for ebay business.

[losul]

Sandy, If you live within MPC’s delivery area, they will take check or cash upon delivery, when you pick up.

Also many/most sites use paypal as an option, and I’m pretty sure you can link your checking account to paypal for payment instead of credit or debit cards.

[SandyandMila]

It’s difficult for me to order stuff online since my debit card was stolen a few weeks ago. I had to use a check for my Hare Today order and its just a long process. I rather find it nearby but if I have to I’ll buy it online.

[SandyandMila]

I was hoping to find it locally. Thanks for the link.

[pugmomsandy]

sandyandmila:

for some chlorella –

http://www.starwest-botanicals.com/_search.php?page=1&q=chlorella

[beaglemom]

Anyone (in PA, NJ, NYC area, MD, or VA) have any experience feeding food from Raaw Energy? This is the primary source of raw food used by my local co-op and I was wondering if others had any feedback. I’m picking up my first order next week 🙂

[SandyandMila]

So I can alternate it with the natures logic all-food fortifier, right? I couldn’t find the chlorella powder I believe they were in tablet or capsule form, but they did have in the pet section chlorella wafers called Rejuv-a-wafers. Have you used them before, what are your thoughts? I think they had other ingredients other than chlorella so I was unsure about them. If I can’t find the chlorella powder maybe I’ll substitute it with one of the others you mentioned after researching them a little, I’m sure they’re great.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi SandyandMila –

Sorry I didn’t even see that post!

I use regular wheat grass powder but wheat grass juice powder is fine too – it’s probably better actually, it’s more expensive which is why I use the regular wheat grass. You can use this supplement daily, it doesn’t have to just be when she eats raw. Adding a superfood boost on the days she eats kibble or dehdyrated is beneficial as well. Also, you can rotate around the ingredients as much as you want – the options really are endless. I’ve used chlorella, dulse, barley grass powder, tart cherry powder, beet juice powder, etc. etc. For dosing I’d say maybe 1/2 tsp. for small dogs, 1 – 1 1/2 tsp. for medium dogs, 1 1/2 – 2 tsp. for large dogs and 2 – 3 tsp. for giant dogs. I give my girls (70 lbs.) 2 tsp. each per day.

[SandyandMila]

Did you read my post above? Could you please, when you get a chance? It’s the one above the Preference post.

[SandyandMila]

Just double checking. Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi SandyandMila –

As long as you’re following the instructions on the box (which I believe is 1:1 – 2:1 boneless meat to Preference) the calcium to phosphorus ratio will be balanced.

[SandyandMila]

Is there enough calcium in Preference or do I have to supplement (egg shells or bone meal)? I used it with ground beef and tripe this am and Mila loved it, and it felt awesome feeding her something that’s so good for her. 🙂 About half of her meals are either RMBs or grind mixes so I wasn’t sure if that’d be enough bone for her or if its required with every meal?

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by SandyandMila.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi soccermom7 –

Do not add Preference to a balanced kibble. Preference is designed for the addition of boneless meat. Meat is high in phosphorus but has negligible amounts of calcium (dogs need calcium and phosphorus in between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio) therefore pre-mixes such as Preference are very high in calcium to compensation for the addition of meat, kibble already has a balanced C:P ratio so adding Preference would potentially throw it off. Additionally, if anything you should be adding more meat to kibble not fruits and vegetables – kibble is too high in plant matter as it is.

As far as a kibble replacement for THK – there is not kibble replacement. The Honest Kitchen is a minimally processed food and about as close to a raw natural or home cooked diet as you can get with feeding commercial food. THK even has some enzymes still intact. Kibble is highly processed. I can understand wanting to cut costs because THK is pricey (I used to feed it) but, unfortunately, going to kibble is going to be a huge decrease in quality.

My recommendations would be to consider a homemade diet (raw or cooked, whatever you’re more comfortable with). There are many books available with balanced recipes. Homemade diets can be done very cheaply. When I was feeding two of my bloodhounds THK I was spending over $500 per month. I’m now feeding them a homemade raw diet, which is even healthier than THK, and spending just under $200 per month. You may want to check out Grandma Lucy’s – it’s another dehydrated type food similar to THK and is a bit more reasonably priced. Another option would be to feed kibble for one meal and THK for the other or to “top” the kibble with some rehydrated THK. You could also look into canned foods – many canned foods are expensive however there are some really reasonably priced quality canned foods available. Pure Balance (available at Walmart) it is rated 5 stars and costs between $1 and $1.25 per can. Costco sells Kirkland Cuts in Gravy which is rated 5 stars for $0.79 per can. 4Health which is rated 4.5 stars is available at Tractor Supply for $0.99 per can. If you added an enzyme supplement to one of these foods it would be nearly as good as THK and much better than kibble. If you do find that you need to go with an entirely kibble diet, I’d pick a 5 star kibble, rotate brands often for variety and add some fresh foods whenever possible (leftover meat, eggs, yogurt, tinned sardines, etc.).

[SandyandMila]

I’ve seen that book at walmart.com, I’ll have to check it out.

[FreeholdHound]

Nope not yet LOL. Im know I’m being a wuss. He’s doing so well on the NL w/raw I’m reveling in the moment – it’s taken a year to get here. The necks look so large to me but he is an 85 lb Greyhound, plus turkey has always been his primary problem kibble ingredient so I figure I better give him a neck on a weekend in case there’s ugly after effects so to speak. So maybe I’ll put my big girl panties on next Saturday 🙂

[Cyndi]

I always use Bailey’s food up within a month anyways. Probably even less than that. I know I’ve heard before that freezing foods can destroy some nutrients, but I never remember the specifics. That book is very informative. I let my boss borrow it and I’ve shared with him alot of the stuff I’ve learned these last few months and he has completely changed the way he feeds his dog. Next I have to work on my boss of my second job. I found out that she feeds her dogs Shep! I was shocked when I saw the bag of Shep in her house. Ugh!

Thanks for your help, as always! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yeah – basically Steve just talks about how frozen raw foods should be used within three months. If foods are frozen longer than that fats can go rancid and antioxidants can oxidize. This shouldn’t be an issue for your purposes. I’m always going back and re-reading things, especially Steve’s book. Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet is my go to.

[Cyndi]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help! Now that I know a bit more about raw feeding, I’m gonna have to read thru that whole book again. I absorb more info when I actually read things more than once. & asking stupid questions doesn’t hurt either, lol!

[Hound Dog Mom]

There is some nutrient loss with freezing – but because this is only temporary that you’ll be using the mix I don’t believe there would be any problems. Obviously feeding anything fresh is preferable, but it’s not always possible.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Cyndi]

Hi losul, I do have that book, on my generic iPad. (I bought it when I first came onto this site and HDM recommended it) Not sure which edition I have, but I’ll look that up. I do remember reading the info on the storing dry foods, which I never knew, but I no longer feed dry dog food, but I did pass along that info to people I know.

I’ll look up the info you mentioned on the frozen storage though, thanks! Now that I already froze Bailey’s food, with the premix added, that book is probably going to tell me not to do that, right? Lol!

Thanks for the info! 🙂

[losul]

Hi Cyndi.

Do you by chance have the book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet”? If you do, pages 90 and 91 (2010 edition) gives very good info on frozen storage and quality concerns. The rest of chapter 7 “Storing Foods to Retain Quality” gives excellent info for storing dry foods

[Cyndi]

Ok, thanks HDM! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

It should be fine.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yeah I’d go with a heart glandular if the fresh heart grosses you out. Glandulars are just freeze-dried raw organ or gland tissue – based on the idea that like supports like. So a dog with heart issues should eat a heart glandular. Swanson’s has a reasonably priced heart glandular:

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-raw-heart-glandular-250-mg-60-caps

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Cyndi]

Quick question for anyone that knows. I would imagine it’s ok to do this, but figured I’d ask. Is it ok for me to mix the Grandma Lucy’s premix up into Bailey food ahead of time and freeze it? I can do either, but I was just getting ready to mix up the beef, organs and tripe and thought it would be a time saver to just add the premix before I portioned it up and just refreeze it all together….