Hi SandyandMila –
As long as you’re following the instructions on the box (which I believe is 1:1 – 2:1 boneless meat to Preference) the calcium to phosphorus ratio will be balanced.
Is there enough calcium in Preference or do I have to supplement (egg shells or bone meal)? I used it with ground beef and tripe this am and Mila loved it, and it felt awesome feeding her something that’s so good for her. š About half of her meals are either RMBs or grind mixes so I wasn’t sure if that’d be enough bone for her or if its required with every meal?
-
This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by
SandyandMila.
Hi soccermom7 –
Do not add Preference to a balanced kibble. Preference is designed for the addition of boneless meat. Meat is high in phosphorus but has negligible amounts of calcium (dogs need calcium and phosphorus in between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio) therefore pre-mixes such as Preference are very high in calcium to compensation for the addition of meat, kibble already has a balanced C:P ratio so adding Preference would potentially throw it off. Additionally, if anything you should be adding more meat to kibble not fruits and vegetables – kibble is too high in plant matter as it is.
As far as a kibble replacement for THK – there is not kibble replacement. The Honest Kitchen is a minimally processed food and about as close to a raw natural or home cooked diet as you can get with feeding commercial food. THK even has some enzymes still intact. Kibble is highly processed. I can understand wanting to cut costs because THK is pricey (I used to feed it) but, unfortunately, going to kibble is going to be a huge decrease in quality.
My recommendations would be to consider a homemade diet (raw or cooked, whatever you’re more comfortable with). There are many books available with balanced recipes. Homemade diets can be done very cheaply. When I was feeding two of my bloodhounds THK I was spending over $500 per month. I’m now feeding them a homemade raw diet, which is even healthier than THK, and spending just under $200 per month. You may want to check out Grandma Lucy’s – it’s another dehydrated type food similar to THK and is a bit more reasonably priced. Another option would be to feed kibble for one meal and THK for the other or to “top” the kibble with some rehydrated THK. You could also look into canned foods – many canned foods are expensive however there are some really reasonably priced quality canned foods available. Pure Balance (available at Walmart) it is rated 5 stars and costs between $1 and $1.25 per can. Costco sells Kirkland Cuts in Gravy which is rated 5 stars for $0.79 per can. 4Health which is rated 4.5 stars is available at Tractor Supply for $0.99 per can. If you added an enzyme supplement to one of these foods it would be nearly as good as THK and much better than kibble. If you do find that you need to go with an entirely kibble diet, I’d pick a 5 star kibble, rotate brands often for variety and add some fresh foods whenever possible (leftover meat, eggs, yogurt, tinned sardines, etc.).
I’ve seen that book at walmart.com, I’ll have to check it out.
Nope not yet LOL. Im know I’m being a wuss. He’s doing so well on the NL w/raw I’m reveling in the moment – it’s taken a year to get here. The necks look so large to me but he is an 85 lb Greyhound, plus turkey has always been his primary problem kibble ingredient so I figure I better give him a neck on a weekend in case there’s ugly after effects so to speak. So maybe I’ll put my big girl panties on next Saturday š
I always use Bailey’s food up within a month anyways. Probably even less than that. I know I’ve heard before that freezing foods can destroy some nutrients, but I never remember the specifics. That book is very informative. I let my boss borrow it and I’ve shared with him alot of the stuff I’ve learned these last few months and he has completely changed the way he feeds his dog. Next I have to work on my boss of my second job. I found out that she feeds her dogs Shep! I was shocked when I saw the bag of Shep in her house. Ugh!
Thanks for your help, as always! š
Yeah – basically Steve just talks about how frozen raw foods should be used within three months. If foods are frozen longer than that fats can go rancid and antioxidants can oxidize. This shouldn’t be an issue for your purposes. I’m always going back and re-reading things, especially Steve’s book. Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet is my go to.
Thanks guys, I appreciate the help! Now that I know a bit more about raw feeding, I’m gonna have to read thru that whole book again. I absorb more info when I actually read things more than once. & asking stupid questions doesn’t hurt either, lol!
There is some nutrient loss with freezing – but because this is only temporary that you’ll be using the mix I don’t believe there would be any problems. Obviously feeding anything fresh is preferable, but it’s not always possible.
Hi losul, I do have that book, on my generic iPad. (I bought it when I first came onto this site and HDM recommended it) Not sure which edition I have, but I’ll look that up. I do remember reading the info on the storing dry foods, which I never knew, but I no longer feed dry dog food, but I did pass along that info to people I know.
I’ll look up the info you mentioned on the frozen storage though, thanks! Now that I already froze Bailey’s food, with the premix added, that book is probably going to tell me not to do that, right? Lol!
Thanks for the info! š
Hi Cyndi.
Do you by chance have the book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet”? If you do, pages 90 and 91 (2010 edition) gives very good info on frozen storage and quality concerns. The rest of chapter 7 “Storing Foods to Retain Quality” gives excellent info for storing dry foods
Yeah I’d go with a heart glandular if the fresh heart grosses you out. Glandulars are just freeze-dried raw organ or gland tissue – based on the idea that like supports like. So a dog with heart issues should eat a heart glandular. Swanson’s has a reasonably priced heart glandular:
https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-raw-heart-glandular-250-mg-60-caps
Quick question for anyone that knows. I would imagine it’s ok to do this, but figured I’d ask. Is it ok for me to mix the Grandma Lucy’s premix up into Bailey food ahead of time and freeze it? I can do either, but I was just getting ready to mix up the beef, organs and tripe and thought it would be a time saver to just add the premix before I portioned it up and just refreeze it all together….
I agree with Patty. When I used to feed kibble I switched to a new brand with a new protein source after each bag (every few weeks) and I rotated canned or fresh food toppers (yogurt, raw eggs, sardines, leftover meat, etc.) daily. Now my dogs eat a homemade diet and get something completely different at every meal.
Hi shilohsure –
Pre-made raw food is very expensive and Primal is probably the most expensive brand of all. Pre-made raw really is financially impractical for large breed dogs and multi-dog households. If you want to feed raw I’d highly recommend researching homemade raw and learning to make your own. Homemade raw is higher quality than pre-made raw and it’s much cheaper. I’m currently spending under $200 per month to feed my two girls raw – they’re both around 70 lbs. and they each eat about 2 lbs. of meat/bone/organ + extras (eggs, kefir, veggies, supplements, etc.) per day. If you go to the raw food forum there’s a thread with recommended menus, you can check out what I feed my girls there. “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a great book for beginners getting started on homemade raw.
Primal is an expensive way to go. Why don’t you look at getting some grinds from Hare Today or My Pet Carnivore and just giving about a half or quarter pound a day of raw mixed in with their kibble. Their grinds have good calcium:phosphorus ratios, so you don’t need to worry about that and as long as the grinds don’t make up a huge protion of their daily food, that is the only thing you need to worry about the balance on. That way they can have some of the benefits of raw without quite so much expense.
As much as I would love to feed all RAW, my puppy (and the next one we plan to get this fall) would end up costing about $800 a month on Primal when they’re only half grown!! That’s based on Primal’s feeding calculator on their webpage.
50lb puppy eating anything but beef requires a minimum of 14lbs/week (beef is 10lb/week). Best pricing is at PetFoodDirect averages approximately $40/6lb bag. So about $100/week! And that’s for one dog that’s only half grown.
Am I calculating something incorrectly??
Definitely will have to combine with kibble. But then I am totally confused about how much to feed! Please help!!
My frig must be set on max cold! My 1 lb containers of raw take 2 days to thaw all the way. I usually end up scooping the sides that have thawed first to feed after 24 hours.
*** Note To Self ***
Do not EVER divide up Harry’s raw Green Tripe after eating dinner!!! That is best done on an empty stomach. Not the worst thing I’ve ever inhaled, but certainly eye opening…
For what it’s worth..my dog has an allergy to carrots.
I just started trying goat’s milk yogurt but too early to say, if it is good or bad, other than she loves it. Maybe goat’s milk cheese? I have also been looking at the benefits of raw goat milk..
My dog eats everything, and then, too late, she has more scratching.
HDM- I’m trying to replicate your whole food vitamin/mineral supplement. I found everything at the natural food store except they had chlorella but not in powder form. Is wheatgrass juice powder the same as the wheatgrass powder you use? If I make this supplement minus the bee pollen I already use (granular form) and the chlorella powder, how much would I be giving her? Will that be only when I feed grind mixes?
Thawing out some tripe as we speak! I have freezer envy also. I have 2 old refrigerators in my kitchen but they’re for people food. Harry’s raw gets a corner of one of the freezers (not much room). I’m still separating my last order so I’ve got the chubs taking up too much space. Tomorrow I will prep them &get them flattened into their “doggie bags”
Same name, just worded different. It’s how I wanted the other name (SanDnMila) pronounced but nobody got it. Lol I just scored some raw green tripe from the local natural food store along with some more Bravo blends. It’s a spoiling Mila day I guess. š
She had some ear itching, I had her examined and the vet found nothing at all. She was on Instinct Raw for about 3 days before and another 4 days mixed with the Darwin’s during the transition period. She has always scratched a little, but not as much as when she transitioned to Darwin’s. She gets out of bed at night to scratch quite excessively. I thought maybe it was the Instinct since it has yeast in it so hurried the transition a bit. She doesn’t eat the Darwin’s unless I put a little cheese in it and then still only eats about half a serving. Well on the bright side she doesn’t have a weight problem. Itching head, ears, base of tail, and scratches on tummy, if that helps.
So I purchased the Nature’s Logic All-Food Fortifier yesterday and fed it to Mila with her Bravo blend burger for dinner yesterday. My cat didn’t like it so much, she could tell right away something was up with her food. lol Anyways, the directions say to add it to dry or wet food. I predominantly feed raw (whether Primal complete formulas, or the Bravo turkey blend bugers, and grinds and RMBs when I have them) but do still feed dry and canned food if I have to about once or twice a week. Should I still add the Nature’s Logic to the dry and canned as well or would a green superfood supplement, as recommended above, be better?
OMG it would take decades for Louie to finish that much food! Hahahahaha. He’s so teeny.
I really want a standing freezer, though! Esp because I really want to order a traditional half from Morris Grassfed Beef for my fiancee and I, and some extras for Louie (180 pounds of beef o_O) and I have absolutely nowhere at all to store any of it!! When we move out, I’ll probably try to find one or two on Craigslist to put in the garage and then I can start buying raw in bulk like a pro! Haha š
I recently did the Nutriscan test. I think it was pretty accurate. Harry didn’t have a extraordinarily high reaction to any one ingredient but quite a few common ones were high enough to get pegged “avoid”. Some of those I knew thru attempting to find a kibble he could handle- turkey, chicken, venison, salmon, & sweet potato (which at least confirmed I wasn’t crazy). Others I didn’t know- milk, oatmeal, soy. I use the results as a guide. I will avoid the turkey, salmon & sweet potato as he has real problems w/ them, but I’m going to try the chicken in raw form, he appears to be able to handle it. It’s recommended to retest annually I don’t know about that yet.
I believe the link is currently around page 15. There are several brands of raw food on the list.
THANKS HDM,
I CANT FIND WHAT PAGE THE LINK IS ON–CAN YOU LET ME KNOW SO I CAN READ IT
LASTLY,WHAT BRAND OF RAW FOOD,IF ANY WOULD YOU SUGGEST FOR A 5 MONTH OLD BERNESE PUP?
hound dog mom–if you have 60 seconds-call me at my cell 9177166149 as i finger type- quite slowly–i can get my thoughts out much quicker talking than finger typing–i guarantee i will keep it one minute or less
thanks again,
craig
kobe’s dad
Hi Mary –
Of the foods you mentioned I believe Orijen is the best choice. I would never feed TOTW as it’s manufactured by Diamond. Fromm is a great company but the food is really overpriced for the quality and not worth the expense (imo). I wouldn’t stick with one food though. Rotating foods often will keep your dogs interested and will also strengthen their digestive system. If they prefer canned and you can afford to feed only canned this is actually preferable to feeding dry food – canned food is more species-appropriate than dry food due to the fact that it’s less processed, high in moisture and higher in protein. Most dogs also find dehdyrated or freeze-dried (both of which you rehydrate prior to feeding) and raw foods more palatable than dry food – these options are healthier than dry food as well. For the loose stools try adding a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin and a probiotic supplement to their meals, this may help.
Hi Kobe –
I think Nature’s Variety has fairly positive comments overall. I personally feel it’s one of the best kibbles available. The Instinct LID Turkey, Instince Rabbit, Prairie Puppy and Prairie Large Breed Puppy are all appropriate for large breed puppies. Ziwipeak is a wonderful food, however I wouldn’t recommend feeding it to a large breed puppy due to its high calcium levels. Raw is preferable to kibble if you can afford it. If you scroll back a few pages there’s a link to a pdf file which lists appropriate foods.
HI,
I am a new member and need advice on my bernese mountain dog pup in NYC
unfortunately, he was sent to me from he west coast with giardia intestinal infection–the good news is that after multiple courses of metronidazole and fenbendazole,i think this parasite is gone—the pup is 5 months old this week–i am starting to slowly transition him off the Hills I AND D—i was recommended the natures variety-large breed puppy kibble which i have been adding slowly—–BUT THE COMMENTS I HAVE READ ON THIS FOOD AND COMPANY ON THIS WEBSITE HAVE NOT BEEN THAT POSITIVE!!!
I KNOW I NEED to limit the calcium but i am confused by what i should be feeding him—regular kibble vs raw food vs ziwipeak?
any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!
I am posing this situation for a whippet friend in our club. Their 3 year old whippet was not been eating regularly starting beginning of this summer. Tried different foods and such to no avail. Just recently he refused to go on a walk and at the same time the owner noticed that his breathing pattern was off. He was taken to the vet and they discovered through a chest x-ray that he had fluid in his lungs. They drained the fluid, sent it out for testing and it came back as being chylous. They were told, in layman’s terms that means he has trouble digesting fats. He was put on a prescription low fat diet and eating again but 12 days later his breathing symptoms came back and he was rushed to the vet where they extracted even more fluid from his lungs. The vet wants to give the low fat diet a chance to work but if the fluid should return a third time, he wants to do an ultrasound to see if there are any heart issues associated.
In my rudimentary searches, the appearance of fat is expected in chylous fluid. Anyone have any experience? Onset of heart disease? Want to help my peeps ask the right questions.
Brian
4 x Whippets for racing, coursing, agility & show
Feeds raw, supplements with 6 Fish and Stella’s Freeze Dried for the road.
Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance pre-mis doesn’t have potato. I really do like Dr. Harveys Veg-to-Bowl fine grind but I just hate the company so much I don’t like buying their products.
I thought I read somewhere on here someone had mentioned Puritan’s Pride Green Source but not sure where. Would think product be a multi/whole food/ green supplement all in one? I had seen this at a local natural food store and remembered someone mention it in here. When should it be used (homemade raw, commercial raw, kibble/canned). How much, would it be half the adult amount? If I get Natures Logic all-food fortifier, would I use it in conjunction with Green Source or alternate with it. I’m still confused with supplementing and when to give which.
Oh, ok. Well, I don’t think Bailey has any issues with potato, so I’ll see. The Dr. Harvey’s has a lot more ingredients too. I may just have to leave it up to Bailey, lol!
Potato in Dr Harvey’s is much further down the list than that.
Yes Patty, it does, here are the ingredients:
USDA Potatoes, Flax, Sweet Potatoes, Carrots, Celery, Apples, Bananas, Blueberry, Cranberries, Pumpkin, Garlic, Rosemary, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Niacin, Iron, Calcium, Phosphorus, Zinc, Riboflavin, Thiamin, Potassium, Manganese, Chloride, Copper, Magnesium, Pyridoxine, Cyanocobalamin
I’ll just have to wait and see which one I like better I guess. They both looked good to me, lol! Thanks Patty!
Thanks HDM! Yeah, I meant the fine ground of the Dr. Harvey’s. Patty mentioned that yesterday after I had seen that Chewy had it. Good to know they both have your approval. I am going to order both and figure out which I like better. The Grandma Lucy’s is cheaper, but the Dr. Harvey’s does have quite a bit more in it, so we’ll see…
I’m using the Dr Harvey’s now. I like it for 2 of my dogs, not so much for the third. it’s got some potato in it. I haven’t looked at the GL Artisan yet, does it have potato?
I’ve used Dr. Harvey’s veg-to-bowl and veg-to-bowl fine ground. I like the fine ground, the regular came out the same way it went in lol. I’ve never used GL’s pre-mix but I have used the complete and balanced GL foods and I’m a big fan.
For anyone that uses the premixes, does anyone use either of the two I mentioned…Dr. Harveyās Veg-to-Bowl Grain free pre-mix or Grandma Lucyās Artisan Grain Free Pre-mix? Which do you think is better?
I may order both, but if someone recommends one more than the other, I may do that…
So most of you are buying your raw from My Pet Carnivore? Do I understand this correctly?
emchide, please watch all those treats because most don’t really have too great ingredients in them. I’ve been making little meatballs(teaspoon sized) out of ground turkey, I cook them in a skillet on a low temp covered then drain them on paper towels. They go straight in the freezer and when I need them I just get a few out. When they begin to thaw, I use a very sharp paring knife to slice them into four pieces. These make good training treats, healthy and good enough that she will actually pay attention. Of those 1/4 pieces, I usually tear those in half as a training treat. So she only gets a tiny piece. Then if it’s just a quick reward for being a “good girl” I keep her kibble in my fanny pack as the majority of training treats, they are no bigger than a pea. So I can treat treat treat but she doesn’t get much. You definitely do not want to use any sort of biscuit to treat, it’s not good quality food plus is way too much.
I use both. GreenTripe.com is carried in better pet food boutiques so the price is reasonable versus paying for shipping to your house. Also my local raw group makes bulk orders. If you have a full size freezer or one that carries 500 lbs you can take advantage of their bulk ordering. Even my little mom & pops pet store carries it. TexasTripe.com is just in Texas of course and I get their tripe products for $2/lb. And another local source for goat and goat/lamb/beef blend is $2/lb.
My first order from TT.com was over 300 lb and only took up about 3/4 of my upright freezer.
Patty, now that you have an upright it’s time to post your picture of it!!!
-
This reply was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by
pugmomsandy.
Hi everyone, and thanks for such an informative site with a lot of informative posts by those willing to share their hard-learned experiences. I’ve been poring over a lot of the discussions and digging in to the facts presented, and I’m trying hard not to duplicate questions already asked.
One manufacturer I came across seems not to have a presence on this website yet – it’s listed in the topic, GreenTripe.com. What particularly intrigues me are their various formulations using trachea, gullet, and pancreas, among others. What do you experienced raw food people think of this variation? At a glance, it looks like shipping costs might be somewhat prohibitive unless ordering in serious bulk.
I’m thinking my best bet to start is simply checking with the local grocers for various RMBs and organs on the cheap and using those as well as eggs, yogurt, and so on as a topper for grain-free kibble (currently rotating among Halo Puppy Salmon, Halo Surf and Turf, Nature’s Variety Instinct Duck, and Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit with canned toppings like Wellness Core and Solid Gold Green Cow Tripe). Ideally I would eventually transition to all home-prepared ingredients but I definitely need to read up more on vegetables and supplements for a while first.
Oh, and my dog is a four-month old boxer/pit mix – he’s growing like a weed and I’m slightly concerned we’ve been using a few too many treats for training in addition to his three meals a day as he’s gone from 13 lbs on June 12 when we adopted him to 32 currently, but he seems healthy as a horse and has great energy. The only issue seems to be some scratching and itching which has somewhat receded as his flea treatment has kicked in (I still find fleas on him but they seem unwell and are easy to catch and crush), but he came home on SD of course from the SPCA so I am hoping that dietary improvements might eliminate any potential skin issues if they exist.
I look forward to gleaning a lot more valuable knowledge from these discussions, and thanks again for expending the energy to inform more people – I really appreciate the love-driven data!
-
This topic was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by
emchide.
-
This topic was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by emchide.
I second MPC – great stuff. I wish I was in their delivery zone. I order from them sometimes but usually end up going with Hare Today because Hare Today is closer and has cheaper shipping to NY. I highly recommend MPC’s green tripe supermix and their ground lamb supreme. Just keep in mind MPC only sells meat/bone/organ “grinds”, tripe, offal, RMBs, etc. – this is not complete and balanced raw and if it’s going to make up a significant portion of your pup’s diet you’ll need to learn how to properly balance it.
*waves* another St. Louisan! I don’t know any other brands around here other than Primal and Stella’s, presonally. I know mypetcarnivore delivers around the STL area, and a lot of the raw feeds around here go through ross wells, too.
There’s a group on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/metrostlouisrawfeeders/338119236322492/?notif_t=group_activity
(I hope that links shows up) and they might be a good resource for you!
I’m having trouble finding any raw brands locally except Primal and Stella and Chewy’s. I’m in St. Louis, MO. Does anyone know where I can find K9 Kraving or some of the other raw brands either locally or online? AlphaDogSpecialties.com carries K9 but can’t ship the frozen and they’re in Maryland. And is it recommended to rotate raw brands or is that more important with kibble?
2 months, 1 week ago
