[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi MsDad –

Congrats on the new pup and very good decision on going raw. I have two bloodhounds that are raw fed. I make homemade raw and fed 25% of the diet as green tripe until 8 months old to keep calcium levels low, but in balance with the phosphorus. Green tripe has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio (1:1) but low levels of each mineral (only about 0.3%). If you’re going the commercial route the formulas I know to have acceptable calcium levels are: Aunt Jeni’s (Turkey), BARF (Beef, Chicken, Lamb), Darwin’s (Beef), K9 Kraving (Beef, Chicken, Beef & Chicken, Duck), Primal (Beef, Duck, Lamb, Quail, Turkey/Sardine, Venison), Stella & Chewy’s (Beef), Vital Essentials (Fish, Beef). If you can get raw tripe (I order mine from My Pet Carnivore and Hare Today) and wanted to occasionally use a formula higher in calcium you could mix it with tripe.

[MsDad]

Hi, I’m new to the forum and am a firm believer in raw diets. I will be getting a goldendoodle puppy in October who will ultimately be trained to be my service dog. So obviously I want to give him every advantage possible. So far, the best food I’ve found is Primal Rabbit Formula but I wonder if the calcium content is high enough or just right. Would love to hear any/all opinions.

Eddie

[sharfie]

Hi HDM-
Thank you for all your help. I have one other question. I have access to the commercial frozen raw foods (I work in a small pet food store): Bravo, Primal, Stella and Chewies, etc. But, I noticed there are no calcium levels listed on the bag. Do you know if any of the freeze dries or raw frozen food have the appropriate calcium levels for large breed puppies?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jules –

If you were feeding only canned or raw foods, yes you should watch the calcium level. If you are only using them as a topper to a kibble with appropriate levels of calcium, I wouldn’t worry about it. I am getting together a list of suitable commercially available raw foods, I don’t plan on doing canned foods in the near future though – sorry! What I did with Mabel when she was a pup was to replace about 25% of what my other two adults were eating with raw green tripe which has a low, but balanced, calcium to phosphorus ratio (I make homemade raw). Sounds like we’re on nearly opposite sides of the country – I’m located in northern New York about 15 miles from the Canadian border!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jessica1 –

The Organix puppy formula is 1.05% calcium and has 2.89 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. – so yes, it’s a good choice. It would be perfectly fine to use both grain-inclusive and grain-free foods in a rotational feeding program. Many people are under the assumption that dry food is good for dental health – you’re not the only one. For the most part, this is a myth. Some dogs that thoroughly chew their kibble may may derive some benefit in comparison to a soft food however this benefit is minimal and will not be enough to prevent periodontal disease and – in my experience – most dogs don’t thoroughly chew kibble and therefore would receive no benefit. The only food that promotes dental health is a raw meaty bones diet and any dog eating commercial food, be it kibble or canned food, will need their teeth brushed on a regular basis or they will get eventually develop periodontal disease to some degree. Your vet telling you that your dog will have good dental health as long as he eats kibble would be the equivalent of your dentist telling you that you don’t need to brush your teeth as long as you eat crunchy foods – kind of silly, right? About 85% of dogs fed commercial foods over the age of 3 have some degree of periodontal disease, oftentimes it goes unnoticed by owners. Many people think “doggie breath” is normal, but it’s not. A dog’s breath should have no odor. All of the Organix canned foods appear that they’re labeled for adult maintenance, however if you’re only using the canned food as a topper and the bulk of the puppy’s diet is going to be a dry food approved for growth or all life stages this is fine. You could also top the Organix puppy kibble with a canned food labeled for growth from another brand, there’s no reason you can mix different brands of kibble and canned food. I hope that helps!

[londoncalling1996]

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my questions. It’s really so helpful, I find it all a bit overwhelming. I made the trip to Los Altos today to the pet store with LOTS of good dog food options. I got 7 small sample bags of different kinds of Fromm dry kibble for Lux to try. I also got a can of Trippett, Green beef tripe, duck and salmon. (I haven’t opened it yet though, got to psych myself up for that I think! :-)) And a can each of Ziwipeak venison&fish recipe and Nature’s logic rabbit dinner. After reading your advise, I thought, “well, cost isn’t really an isssue, man, what we paid for this dog!”, but then I got to the pet store and saw the prices! If my 16 year old is going to go to college, Lux might have to eat some kibble! These three cans I got cost 15 bucks and with a berner in the house, we might be eaten out of house and home! I am looking on line at some of the on line sites you suggested. Thanks! I do like to shop local and will, but since it’s about 20 miles to the nearest pet store with good food, I can justify not using the local shop for all of our dog food needs all the time. So, now you have me thinking about wet and raw food, do I also need to worry about the calcium content in those for the first 8 or 10 months of Lux’s life? Maybe you have a list of your favorite canned foods for Large and Giant Breed puppies that have the right amount of calcium? (Fingers crossed!) Where are you located? I’m on the San Francisco peninsula, about 20 miles south of SF. Thank you for everything! Cheers, Jules

[Jessica1]

Hello H.D.M, Thank you so much for all your insight. My puppy is between 9-10 wks and a mix between GSD and Bernese Mountain Dog (they think, he is a rescue). He currently weighs 15lbs, so I know he will be a big boy. He was being feed Pedigree so I wanted to start to transition him right away to a better quality food, for health and developmental reasons. I was getting confused with all the info that is out there but finding you has been great, informative and easy to understand.
I really wanted to do the non grain. But, I wasn’t sure if I wanted to start a non grain food since the costs are high I didn’t want to switch if I couldn’t keep it up. So I put him on Organix Puppy (dry), due to the ingredients the higher standards of organics. Would this be listed on your new list as a good choice?
My second question, you state rotational feeding, would a rotation with non grain and grain inclusive be a good idea? Lastly, I was always told (by my vet) kibble was better for their teeth than canned food, but you state canned food is better for their health, so until now I never gave can food much thought. In the Organix brand I didn’t see a can puppy formula, are their big differences that I should be looking for if I want to start giving him canned? Thank you.

[sharfie]

So, I am a bit confused. Right now I am feeding my puppy NV Turkey and adding Bravo Buffalo Boneless as a topper. If I were to use Bravo Balance or a canned food, which is a complete and balanced raw food, would it raise the calcium to a level that is too high?

Thanks so much for your help.

[InkedMarie]

from HDM: ” Love was a staple in the rotation.”

this made me smile, Love is always a rotation in my home!!! <G>

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi londoncalling1996 –

That’s too bad your store didn’t carry any of the foods. 🙁 If you’re not opposed to online ordering there are many sites that sell a wider variety of foods than you could find in a store and they also typically have lower prices – most also offer free shipping with no weight limit when you spend a certain amount of money (usually orders over $49). I’d recommend checking out wag.com, chewy.com, petflow.com and naturalk9supplies.com. Also the new lists should give you many additional options to choose from.

I definitely feel that, if it’s financially feasible, non-dry foods should be fed as a sole diet or at least in addition to kibble. Dry food is actually the worst thing to feed a dog – however to to budget and time constraints it, understandably, comprises the bulk of most dog’s diets. I urge you to check out this article Dr. Marty Goldstein (one of my all time favorite veterinarians) posted on his blog, it ranks the different types of food from best to worst: drmarty.com/what-should-i-feed-my-pet-for-best-health/

If you add wet food you should count account for this in her daily food intake – just monitor her weight and if she’s gaining too much start feeding a little less. One of my all time favorite wet food toppers (especially for large breed puppies) is Tripett. I like Tripett for several reasons: 1) high protein/moderate fat/low carbohydrate (ideal); 2) it has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but very low amounts of each, so it can effectively be used to lower the calcium to phosphorus ratio in any food fed to a large breed puppy without the risk of throwing off the balance and 3) dogs go absolutely nuts for it (people hate it – if you feed it you’ll see why – but they love it). The only thing I want to note with Tripett is that it’s not a complete and balanced food (it’s just canned green tripe) so if you do feed it make sure it doesn’t exceed 20% of the meal or you could throw off the nutritional balance. Some other more balanced canned foods that I like that could account for over 20% of the meal are: ZiwiPeak, Addiction, Nature’s Logic, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Merrick. Dr. Mike has a great compilation of high quality canned foods over on the review site as well. If you’re looking for a quality yet budget friendly canned food (canned food can be quite pricey, especially when feeding a large breed puppy) I’d recommend checking out 4Health (available at Tractor Supply, $0.99 per can), Pure Balance (available at Walmart, $1 per can), Kirkland Cuts in Gravy (available at Costco, $0.79 per can), Whole Earth Farms (available at many online retailers about $1.50 per can) – these foods are all 4 – 5 star quality. Some other toppers you could use are dehdyrated foods (i.e. The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s, etc.) – these foods are about the same consistency as a stew type canned food when rehydrated, a balanced frozen or freeze-dried commercial raw food (freeze-dried rehydrates to canned food consistency) or fresh toppers such as sardines, eggs, plain yogurt or left over lean meat or steam veggies from your dinner.

Digestive aids aren’t necessary, but many feel they’re beneficial. Many of the regulars here supplement with probiotics and enzymes. I don’t supplement with either because my dogs eat a raw diet (naturally occurring enzymes) and consume raw green tripe (rich in enzymes and probiotics) and kefir (rich in probiotics) on a regular basis. If feeding cooked food only (like kibble and canned) I do feel that enzymes and probiotics can provide benefit.

[londoncalling1996]

Hi Hound Dog Mom, I REALLY appreciate all you research and hard work compiling all the information on what to feed Large and Giant Breed Puppies, in our case, our 11 week old Bernese Mtn Dog. I printed your recommendations and took the list to our local pet and feed store. I was leaning to Fromm because it’s one of the lowest in calcium. The Fromm website listed our local pet and feed store as carrying two of their lines. Not only do they not carry Fromm, they don’t carry any of the foods on your list except Canine Caviar, which you said in a recent post that you are taking off the list. I can see this isn’t going to be so straight forward! I did call a pet store about 20 miles away and they carry Fromm, so I will go tomorrow and pick some up for LUX. Can you please tell me if feeding her just the dry food is good for her? Or should I add some protein? What about the green tripe? What about digestive aids? Should I add of of those to her diet? I do put a little wet food into the end of her kong and freeze it to give her a treat when I put her in her crate at bedtime. Should I count that as food and subtract some kibble in one of her daytime meals? Also, what do you recommend as a wet food to use in the kong and/or as a topper occasionally on her kibble? I want to do the best I can for her in her life and especially in the coming formative months! Thanks so much!!!! Cheers, Jules

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi julez4you –

The calcium levels in this particular formula are appropriate for a large breed puppy and it is an all life stages food however – imho – it’s way too low in protein and fat. If you do feed it, I would definitely recommend topping with a high protein canned food or adding some fresh meat/eggs/etc. I definitely feel high protein is preferable. I’m a big fan of THK and, in fact, my two year old was weaned onto THK and ate it until she was 8 months old – Love was a staple in the rotation.

I completely understand where you’re coming from with the raw thing. Commercial raw is very expensive – especially for large dogs. I could never afford commercial raw for my two given the amount that they eat. I’m able to do homemade fairly cheaply but it does get quite time consuming.

[julez4you]

Hound Dog Mom:
I know you are working to compile updated lists, but I’m running low on my pups current bag so hoping to switch. I just transitioned my pup to Petcurean Go Chicken, and calcium levels are a bit higher than optimal. What do you think of this formula? http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/sensitivity-and-shine-duck

The guaranteed anaysis as fed is provided.

Also- how would you compare feeding something like this or even a higher protein grain-free kibble vs. The Honest Kitchen Love?

I’m a big believer in raw- my lab/mastiff mix is 100% raw fed. But I don’t have the time/desire to make my own, so I buy commercial raw and I just can’t afford to have my senior dog plus a 9week old Dane pup on raw right now. I do eventually hope to make the switch though once he’s past the high growth years where he’d be eating us out of house and home 🙂

Thanks again! I’ve really been struggling with this one.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DellUSN –

Yes – I feel that the sooner a rotational feeding program is implemented the better. There are several reasons foods should be rotated – there is no “best” or “perfect” food so switching brands will help to mitigate the shortcomings of feeding any one brand for an extended period of time, feeding a variety of foods helps to foster a strong and diverse population of microorganisms in the gut and by having several “go to” foods you’ll be able to make a quick switch in the event of a recall or formula change. Some also believe that rotating foods helps to decrease the risk of the dog developing a sensitivity to a particular ingredient later in life.

Initially, you may need to gradually transition your pup when switching brands. You would do this by feeding 25% new/75% old for a few days, then moving to 50/50 for a few days, then 75/25 for a few days, then transitioning entirely to the new food. If your pup is experiencing loose stools during the transition a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin and/or probiotics may help. My two dogs were both started on a rotational feeding plan upon coming home at 8 weeks old and neither experienced any digestive upset – but it does depend on the dog.

As far as which brands to feed, for the next four months or so I would recommend keeping him on a controlled calcium food. Any of the kibbles on my list would be comparable to Wellness CORE. I’m currently in the process of updating the list and by the end of this week or beginning of next week I should have a revised grain-free list, a grain-inclusive list and a raw list posted.

There really is no rhyme or reason to rotational feeding – everyone has their own method. I haven’t fed kibble quite a few years but for my last dog that ate kibble I got a new brand with a new protein source at the end of each bag and added a variety of canned food and/or fresh food “toppers” daily. When I got Gertie (currently two years old) I rotated between The Honest Kitchen’s (dehydrated) Love, Embark, Thrive and Zeal formulas and fed a different variety each day, I also mixed in a can of Tripett with her breakfast and gave her either a raw egg, a tin or sardines or plain yogurt at dinner. When she was 8 months old I switched her to a raw diet. Mabel (my one year old) transitioned to a raw diet as soon as she came home at 8 weeks. On their homemade raw diets my dogs get something completely different at each meal.

I would highly recommend adding “toppers” if you’re feeding kibble as the sole diet. Toppers will boost the “species-appropriateness” by adding some extra protein, moisture and providing your dog with some fresh, less processed food. Some people believe canned foods are unhealthy, however they’re actually much healthier than dry food – they’re less processed, higher in protein/lower in carbohydrates and have a high moisture content. The same applies to dehydrated foods and raw foods. If you’re adding a balanced canned, dehydrated or raw food you can top with as much as you want. “People food” is great too – any left over lean meat or veggies from your dinner, eggs, tinned sardines, plain yogurt, kefir and cottage cheese are all cheap and very healthy foods (just keep unbalanced extras such as these to 20% or less of the meal or you could risk throwing of the nutritional balance of the kibble).

Hope that helps! 🙂

[DellUSN]

Scary thing is he won’t be four months for another 11 days. He’s a big boy for sure which is why I’m worried about his diet and rapid growth.

[InkedMarie]

A 40 pound four month old pup? That’s going to be a big dog!

[InkedMarie]

Well, if you ever have a problem with the food & you can’t get a hold of customer service, you may sing a different tune. There are too many other quality foods with customer service that actually serve customers to choose from. Your choice. To some of us, this is very important. To you, it’s not and that’s ok. Your dogs.

[DellUSN]

Hello, Hound Dog Mom.

I’ve been searching around this site for a little while now and I’ve noticed your activity and knowledge about pet foods. I signed up so that I could attempt to contact you directly through private message, but I guess that’s not possible here. Either way, I’ve been reading a lot of your advice on here and I had a couple questions for you. I have a 4 month old Chocolate Lab (40 pounds) named Rooster who I just got a couple weeks ago. Having studied to become an Registered Vet Tech before I joined The Navy, I understood that importance of nutrition for large breed puppies, or any breed of puppy for that matter. After some research I decided to go with a 4 pound bag of Wellness CORE Puppy Formula. His transition over to the food went very smoothly and he’s been devouring it, so I bought him a 26 pound bag. I currently feed him 4 cups a day dry kibble (2 AM, 2 PM) and he’s doing well on the schedule. I read a post that you made about rotating dog’s brand of food and source of protein. I was curious if this was something that should be implemented at young age and some other brands you recommended for my pup. Also, I was very worried about my dog and people food because I’ve seen so many people just go nuts feeding there dogs junk food. He has not been exposed to any people food yet, but I’d like to get him on some raw meats and bones if possible. At what age would he be ready for that and what sorts of things would you recommend for him in that field? I really anticipate your reply and appreciate any input you offer. Thank you!

[Gemma60537]

And obviously a choice entirely up to you. I guess I’m more of the camp that I’d much rather stay on their product because of what goes into it than dump them for non-food related issues. But I have the advantage that I already feed them Canine Caviar so I can see the benefits of their products first hand every time I look at my dogs, versus just hearing word of mouth.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi wallyworld –

I’m actually in the process of making a grain-inclusive list now (should be done by the end of this week or early next week). I contact Nutro last week and spoke to their customer service (very polite customer service I might add) and, unfortunately, all of their formulas were too high in calcium.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi juelz4you –

There have been some issues with obtaining the Canine Caviar information (there is actually a thread about this). When I created the list about a year ago the calcium level I used was listed as an actual (not min). I’ve been trying to contact the company for a week now (via email and phone) and have received no response so this food will be removed from the list. I’m currently in the process of updating the list and creating a grain-inclusive list.

[wallyworld]

BTW, nutro natural choice, dry is rated 4 stars on DFA. There isn’t a review on that particular formula but at the top of the nutro page it lists the large breed puppy formula as 4 stars.

[wallyworld]

I was looking into some grain inclusive large breed puppy foods and below is what Nutro emailed me, just in case anyone is interested. I did request actual or average %. They just sent what is already posted on their website, not very helpful…

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. We value the opinions of our consumers and take their feedback very seriously.

NUTRO® NATURAL CHOICE® LARGE BREED PUPPY LAMB MEAL & RICE contains a minimum Calcium content of 1.0%, and a maximum of 1.5%. This formulation contains a minimum of 0.9% Phosphorus, and a maximum of 1.3%.

NUTRO® NATURAL CHOICE® LARGE BREED PUPPY CHICKEN, WHOLE BROWN RICE & OATMEAL contains a minimum Calcium content of 1.0%, and a maximum of 1.5%. This formulation contains a minimum of 0.9% Phosphorus, and a maximum of 1.3%.

[InkedMarie]

Wow, still no response? I know you had this issue with Darwin’s (I think it was you anyway) but you’re the only person I know who has!

[julez4you]

Hound Dog Mom-
Thank you for all the research and info you’ve shared regarding a list of quality foods for Giant Breeds. I have a 9 week old Great Dane pup that the breeder had on Purina One that I just switched over to Petcurean Go! But after learning the max levels of calcium/ phosphorous- I’m not sure that’s the food I want to stick with.

I considered Canine Caviar as I’m a fan of their ingredients and like that the food is extruded vs. baked, but in reviewing the nutritional levels on their website (also noted in the list you prepared)- the 1% calcium level is listed as a min (not a max.) When I tried calling customer service to obtain the max levels, I was told they do not publish a max since the levels vary which made me very nervous.

I know you had indicated that you called and/or emailed all the companies on your list for max levels where they were not indicated. Did you receive 1% as the max from Canine Caviar?

Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Gemma –

I agree with Marie. I’m the one who has emailed them numerous times with no response and called them several times only to get a full voice mailbox. This is unacceptable. Being a small company this is all the more reason they should have superior customer service. In my experience most small companies have better customer service than large companies. After this experience I would never use or recommend their products. BTW – after nearly a week of trying to get a hold of them I never did.

[spaniel39]

Hi, All
well, I finally heard back and I’m mostly convinced it was a labeling error
(but still perplexed when they caught it, why they would keep using up the older packaging with
the misinformation?)
They are sending me replacement bags (new with the correct information)
for the Large Breed Puppy Lamb Dinner.

[InkedMarie]

Gemma, I’m glad you like the food but being a small company is no excuse. Others have either gone days before getting an email response, one person said she called numerous times and their mailbox is full. That is not acceptable. I don’t care how good a food is, if you can’t get anyone to return an email or phone call, that’s very poor customer service. If your dogs all of a sudden got sick on the food, you want an answer now, not later

[Gemma60537]

I saw this the other day and wanted to wait to chime in…I have fed Canine Caviar for about two and a half years. I learned about it through my friend/breeder who is an acquaintance of the founder, which is Jeff Baker who was mentioned as a good source of info. We had three senior dogs very close in age who passed away as each one hit 13, so now with my 2 year old Lab and my 10 week old Lab puppy I am NEUROTIC about anything that hits their bodies. I believe strongly in my Canine Caviar.

They are a pretty small company, so they probably do not have vast numbers of customer service people to answer questions, but my friend/breeder who made me aware of this brand swears by it with all of her dogs…and she’s one of those breeders who LOVES her dogs and carefully does a litter once or twice a year. I don’t think there’s some awful cover up over at CC. I know they are extremely cautious with their product, so it seems way more likely to me to be a printer error versus an error in the recipe of the food.

Personally I feed the Chicken & Pearl Millet formula to my 10 week old pup just like I fed it to my 2 year old since it’s so similar to the large breed puppy formula. My breeder says she’s been feeding it to her pups for 10 years, before their large breed pup formula was available.

[sharfie]

Thank you.

[Hound Dog Mom]

1.25%. The Wellness LBP has a very low calorie-density so the calcium per 1,000 kcal. comes out to 3.55 (if it were more calorie-dense the number would be less than 3.5). It’s still pretty low and would probably be acceptable but the my cutoff it 3.50.

[Anonymous]

Hi HDM – Thanks for info on Wellness. I’m curious what the Wellness people told you the calcium level for the Super 5 Large Breed Puppy was? My bag and their website list min as 1.0 and max as 1.4. Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would say calcium levels are critical until around 8 months of age – at this time puppies are through their most rapid phase of growth and are beginning to regulate calcium absorption.

[sharfie]

I was wondering, at what age does the level of calcium in food not become an issue. I have a 5.5 month old Golden Retriever and currently have him on a rotation of low calcium food.

[londoncalling1996]

Oops, just figured out the STAR ratings, your own reviews of the food. Okay, got that! Thanks!

[londoncalling1996]

I am hoping to do the best for our new, 11 week old Bernese Mountain Dog pup, Lux. We had a Berner, Bailey, who died way too young (3-1/2) and it took us a long time to get over the loss and risk another one (and their relatively short life expectancy) joining our family. We are hoping Lux will live a good long life, well past her predicted expectancy. So, here I am! I have been looking thru this wonderfully informative website, thank you, which is helping me, but also making my brain spin a bit! I have a couple questions, the first (I can’t seem to find anywhere here) is about the 4 and 5 star foods. What is the difference? Digestive aid, is this only if my dog develops a problem, like throwing up, or would it be beneficial for life? Also, toppers, like the green tripe, is that something I should give our pup? The breeder was feeding her Ekanuba Large Breed Puppy so I bought a big bag of it. Doesn’t sound like it’s a good choice from what I’v read here. I heard at a pet store, they used to be a better dog food before being bought out by a big agro corp. (If that’s true). I’ve printed your list of recommended Large and Giant Breed Puppy foods and I will take that with me to buy Lux some new food tomorrow. Anyhow, Hound Dog Mom, thanks for all your hard work and puppy love! Cheers, Jules

[Jessica1]

I just adopted a puppy from a rescue, his mom and her puppies were dumped. The mom is a smaller German Shepherd and the vet thinks he has Burmese Mountain Dog. He is the cutest and sweetest “little” guy. I can guess this is going to be a big boy. Ever since I considered adopting him I started doing research on dog foods, they have changed a lot since my last dog.
I feel like I’m studying for an exam and failing. I am so confused at this point. I looked into brands like ; Wellness, Blue Buffalo, Blue Wilderness, Canine Caviar, Innova, Natures Variety, etc etc … After speaking to many people they stated that the higher end brands were to rich for their dogs and or created loose bowls. I’ve looked at the med end, but not all that happy with some of the ingredients. I loved the information on the, “Large Breed Puppy Food List” with the calcium percentages, and the food with rabbit as the main ingredient sounded to be like one of the best meats to use. But I just don’t know which might work out best for him. I was able to bring him home today and they have him on Pedigree so I want to wean him off this as soon as possible. Also, I would like to find a good food that won’t break me. I don’t mind paying a little more for better quality but some of the pricing is way out there.
I really want something that is good for him but it has to be something he enjoys. Oh and I’m looking for a dry food.
If anyone has any suggestions or recommendations for me I would greatly appreciate it.

[Hershy]

That’s too bad. Super5Mix Just for Puppy and their Super5Mix Large Breed Puppy Health are not the Wellness Core, right? I think you mentioned it was good. Or I may try the Fromm that you mentioned. I look forward to your other list.

Thanks so much!

[labgirl]

try to email [email protected] , hes the only one ill email, and i get the best responses and quick. . i hope you get the answer your looking for out of him.

the chicken and millet formula of Canine caviar is fine for large breeds/giant breeds i believe, just as an alternative for anyones whos on the large breed bags and needs something labelled properly.

[spaniel39]

It really does bother me that they don’t seem to care
Oh, we have this formula and we put it in bags that list a different formula but
oh well?
Not even apologizing.
should really contact the FDA or who else?
Is Dog Food Journal still around
Dog food analysis

[InkedMarie]

It tells me there is no way I will use or recommend their products.

[spaniel39]

Hi, AL
well, I received a reply from Canine caviar AND
(I had sent the info to Petflow/wag/Mr Chewey)
from Mr Chewey, who had contacted the company and received a reply that they forwarded to me.

Follow me?
I got a reply from Canine Caviar
I got a different reply from Canine Caviar that was sent to dog food distributor Mr Chewy
who forwarded it to me.
Sound good?
NOT!
Two different explanations and I truly believe some sort of cover-up
Not a very bright one as they have admitted putting the large breed food, into bags
that have different mineral (calcium/phosphorous) levels posted.
This is not minor.
A large breed pup fed a calcium level of 2.3 and phosphorous of 2 definitely
will adversely affect the pups health and growth and definitely cause skeletal
agonizing deformities (as any vet).
That is why the large breed brands have calcium no more than 1-1.3% and phosphorous
around .95-1%. There is a medical/scientific reason for this.
Anyway, both Mr Chewey and Canine caviar offered to replace my bags
(although it’s been 2 days and haven’t heard back from Canine, which is really irritating)
I mean, they know/knew about this and did not tell any of their distributors, no one!
What does that tell you?

[pugmomsandy]

Not sure why she says more than 35% protein could possibly lead to pancreatitis?

[BlackAndTan]

Hi everyone,

I sent a question through the website about a week ago and got the same error message.
Today I got a very involved reply. Quite appreciated.
Here it is if anyone’s interested (on the topic of protein cycling)

Cheers

——— message below —-
I am glad your boy is doing well on Canine Caviar!
Protein rotation is beneficial, there really is not a wrong way to do
it. It does not have to be done daily, it can be monthly or quarterly.
I personally feed a different kibble protein source each time a new bag
is needed and rotate thru the cans the same way.
When mixing cans with the kibble, keep in mind our cans are pure protein
and should be used as a supplement only. A dogs system can typically
utilize up to 35% of their intake as protein. Anymore than that can
lead to health issues like pancreatitis. If you are feeding more than a
few spoons of Canine Caviar canned food at a time, you will need to
reduce the amount of kibble you are feeding by the same amount, 1/2 cup
can would mean 1/2 cup less kibble. If you want him to reduce his
weight a bit, you can also supplement with our Synergy mix. It is a
dehydrated vegetable mix that will add more volume to his meal without
the added protein and calories.
Please feel free to contact me with any additional questions.
Thank you,
Julie

Julie Campbell
Canine Caviar Pet Foods, Inc
4131 Tigris Way
Riverside, Ca 92503
Phone 714-223-1800
Fax 714-223-1801
email [email protected]
http://www.caninecaviar.com

[Hound Dog Mom]

Thanks for posting that email – I’ll try that as my last resort. I finally got the form on their website to work and sent my questions and I never received a response. I called their customer service three times today (during business hours – I checked the timezone) and no one answered and their voice mailbox was full. I’m not overly impressed to say the least.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Hershy –

I just heard back from Wellness today actually and, unfortunately, both their Super5Mix Just for Puppy and their Super5Mix Large Breed Puppy Health are too high in calcium.

[Hershy]

Thank you, Pattyvaughn. That makes perfect sense.

So I guess that just leaves the “recognized” question for HDM. : )
“Do you know yet if Wellness Large Breed Puppy will be on your Grain inclusive list? ”
(Although the protein is maybe too low for growing pups).
Somewhere in these posts I thought I saw a guide for ideal nutrition analysis for amounts recommended – above AAFCO) for large breed pups, but I can’t find it? Was there something like that?

Thanks!

[theBCnut]

I’m not HDM but I can answer the “Not recognized” question. AAFCO sets minimum standards for what must be in dog food to sustain life. That doesn’t mean that those things that are not in the AAFCO nutrient profiles are not good to have. Some companies go way beyond the minimums set by AAFCO. Frankly, there in’t a single food I would let my dogs touch that doesn’t go way beyond the minimal standards set by AAFCO. So this company is informing you that they has ingredients that they believe are important, but AAFCO doesn’t even set a minimum for them.

[Hershy]

Hello, again, HDM,
Still searching for the best food to meet quality for a price I can afford. Have ruled out the Kirkland-wasn’t happy with many reviews I read. Wellness Core Puppy is on your list of favorite foods in the “grain free” list.
Do you know yet if Wellness Large Breed Puppy will be on your Grain inclusive list? Calcium (min) is nice and low. I’m leaning toward this one for now. Also wondered what the asterisk comment means relating to food quality. “Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO…” – do they mean these ingredients are of no benefit for the puppy, and a waste to add, or maybe amount of it not enough of to do the job? I realize they are not the bare bones nutrients a dog needs, but why do they put this on the bag? Seems the comment would be more useful on the bag that does NOT have these ingredients? ; ). I think I’m giving this way too much thought..

Ingredients:
Deboned Chicken, Deboned Whitefish, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Peas, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice, Salmon Meal (a natural source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Tomato Pomace, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Tomatoes, Natural Chicken Flavor, Ground Flaxseed, Salmon Oil (a natural source of DHA – Docosahexaenoic Acid), Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Salt, Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins [Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement], Choline Chloride, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation products
Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein (min.) 26.0%, Crude Fat (min.) 12.0%, Crude Fiber (max.) 4.5%, Moisture (max.) 11.0%, Calcium (min.) 1.0%, Phosphorus (min.) .90%, Vitamin E (min.) 150IU, Omega 6* (min.) 2.5%, Omega 3* (min.) .50%, DHA .137#37;, Beta-Carotene* (min.) 5 mg/kg, Lycopene* (min.) .25 mg/kg, Taurine* (min.) .09%, Total Micro-Organisms* (min.) 20,000,000 CFU/lb. *Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

Thanks!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by Hershy.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by Hershy.

[alanysrayne]

Thanks HDM ! I will keep that into consideration. Thanks so much for all your help!