[losul]

C4C, Bobby dog, Thnx. I agree about getting more back to basics. Hopefully more manufactur’s will lean more that way in the future. It’s mind boggling to me how many dogs are having allergies, intolerances, etc., and how many folks have so much trouble finding foods that are agreeable, out of the hundreds of foods out there. Is shouldn’t be that way, and why do so many dogs seem to have these allergies in the first place, I think it’s unnatural. 10 years and more ago, I thought it was very rare for dogs to have allergies, now it seems to be very commonplace. (or maybe I was just in the dark back then, well I know I was in the dark, lol. ). All of the botanicals in Origen are what have kept me from trying so far. C4C, I hear ya on the funny looks!

Naturella, I hesitate to advise you how much to give your dog and whether or not to give it at all, I almost feel like it would be medical advice. For one thing there’s such a variance in the size of cloves, and another some dogs would be more sensitve than others. The health and and nutrition of your dog could also be a factor. Your dog is very small, and only about 1/3 the weight of mine. I give mine about 1 1/2 large cloves per week, they average about 4 grams each clove. It’s crushed and mixed in with 4 days worth of food. For the next 4 days batch, I leave garlic out of it, the next, garlic again, and so forth. I think I give him less than most sites advocating it advise, I would never give him so much that he has would have garlic breath to much extent, and well, if I would ever notice that he would actually begin to exude the odor from his skin, I feel that would be entirely too much and could be dangerous. If you do decide to use garlic so, just to be precautionary, start out tiny, like just a small slice of a clove, and make sure there isn’t any kind of intolerance or allergic reaction first. I wouldn’t think 1 small/medium sized clove a week, distributed in several meals would be too much for your dog. I know I wasn’t much help, sorry…. BTW, I can almost smell the food a cookin! MMmmmm garlic toast, Luv feta cheese, olive oil, and balsamic vinegar on my tomato slices!

Aimee, Wow you exuded garlic fragrances for 3 days after just eating 1 meal with some? Are you sure you didn’t take a large doggy bag home with you and indulge several times? 😀

I didn’t mean to imply that all mammals have equal susceptabilities, just that they have the same suceptibilties.

I think the papers desribing garlic use for sickle cell anemia used aged garlic extract (AGE). Many of the compounds and properties were changed by the aging or fermenting process, no? At any rate garlic and it’s many compounds have a whole lot of medicinal possibilities wouldn’t you think?

It’s hard to come by actual research on humans, it’d be very unethical to try to induce hemolytic anemia in humans. There seems to be lots of it on various mammals, cats, rats/mice, dogs, cows, horses, sheep, birds, etc. Some of what I’ve seen is merely anecdotal, such as a professor and some students informally volunteered to eat an abnormal amount of onions ( i think it was 2 medim/large, cooked, daily) for a period of 5 days, they all displayed physical signs of anemia, and upon blood testing indeed showed that to be the case.

Here is a study where the researchers where attempting to test the effects of certain native vegetables that could mitigate garlics unwanted effects on Nigerians. The actual study was done with rats, but as I said….;

“Garlic (Allium sativum) is popularly consumed in Nigeria because of its health benefit in treatment and management of several disease conditions. However, excessive intake of garlic may cause hemolytic anemia. This project sought to investigate the ability of some commonly consumed tropical green leafy vegetables—namely, Amaranthus cruentus, Baselia alba, Solanum macrocarpon, Ocimum gratissimum, and Corchorus olitorius—to prevent garlic-induced hemolytic anemia.”

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jmf.2004.7.498

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Is this the study that brought about AVMA’s determination that garlic should not be fed to dogs?

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/ajvr.2000.61.1446

Objective—To determine whether dogs given garlic extract developed hemolytic anemia and to establish the hematologic characteristics induced experimentally by intragastric administration of garlic extract.

Animals—8 healthy adult mixed-breed dogs.

Procedure—4 dogs were given 1.25 ml of garlic extract/kg of body weight <b>(5 g of whole garlic/kg) intragastrically once a day for 7 days.</b> The remaining 4 contol dogs received water instead of garlic extract. Complete blood counts were performed, and methemoglobin and erythrocyte-reduced glutathione concentrations, percentage of erythrocytes with Heinz bodies, and percentage of eccentrocytes were determined before and for 30 days after administration of the first dose of garlic extract. Ultrastructural analysis of eccentrocytes was performed.

Results—Compared with initial values, erythrocyte count, Hct, and hemoglobin concentration decreased to a minimum value on days 9 to 11 in dogs given garlic extract. Heinz body formation, an increase in erythrocyte- reduced glutathione concentration, and eccentrocytes were also detected in these dogs. However, no dog developed hemolytic anemia.

Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—The constituents of garlic have the potential to oxidize erythrocyte membranes and hemoglobin, inducing hemolysis associated with the appearance of eccentrocytes in dogs. Thus, foods containing garlic should not be fed to
dogs. Eccentrocytosis appears to be a major diagnostic feature of garlic-induced hemolysis in dogs. (Am J Vet Res 2000;61:1446–1450)
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Some notes about this; At the rate I give Turbo, it would take 2 years to give my dog the equivalent of what the researchers gave these dogs all in 1 week. The second paragraph gives plenty enough to be concerned about, but “However, no dog developed hemolytic anemia”

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I’m amazed you would not be concerned about feeding a dog grape pomace, when as far as I know, the causitive agent of grapes/kidney failure has yet to be determined.