Beneful Dog Food (Dry)


Rating: ★★☆☆☆

Purina Beneful Dog Food receives the Advisor’s second-lowest tier rating of 2 stars.

The Purina Beneful product line includes 9 dry dog foods.

Each recipe below includes its related AAFCO nutrient profile when available on the product’s official webpage: Growth, Maintenance, All Life Stages, Supplemental or Unspecified.

Important: Because many websites do not reliably specify which Growth or All Life Stages recipes are safe for large breed puppies, we do not include that data in this report. Be sure to check actual packaging for that information.

  • Beneful Grain Free [M]
  • Beneful Playful Life [M]
  • Beneful Healthy Puppy [A]
  • Beneful Healthy Weight [M]
  • Beneful Originals with Real Beef [M]
  • Beneful IncrediBites with Real Beef [M]
  • Beneful Originals with Real Salmon [M]
  • Beneful Originals with Real Chicken [M]
  • Beneful IncrediBites with Real Chicken [M]

Purina Beneful IncrediBites with Real Chicken was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Purina Beneful IncrediBites with Real Chicken

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 29% | Fat = 14% | Carbs = 49%

Ingredients: Chicken, whole grain corn, barley, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, rice, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols, soybean meal, poultry by-product meal, glycerin, egg and chicken flavor, calcium carbonate, salt, mono and dicalcium phosphate, oat meal, poultry and pork digest, potassium chloride, dried carrots, dried sweet potatoes, dried spinach, vitamins [vitamin E supplement, niacin, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin D3 supplement, riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), menadione sodium bisulfite (vitamin K), folic acid, biotin], minerals [zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], choline chloride, yellow 6, l-lysine monohydrochloride, yellow 5, red 40, blue 2, garlic oil

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 4.7%

Red items indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
Guaranteed Analysis25%12%NA
Dry Matter Basis29%14%49%
Calorie Weighted Basis26%30%44%
Protein = 26% | Fat = 30% | Carbs = 44%

The first ingredient in this dog food is chicken. Although it is a quality item, raw chicken contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The second ingredient is corn. Corn is an inexpensive and controversial cereal grain. And aside from its energy content, this grain is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

For this reason, we do not consider corn a preferred component in any dog food.

The third ingredient is barley. Barley is a starchy carbohydrate supplying fiber and other healthy nutrients. However, aside from its energy content, this cereal grain is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The fourth ingredient is chicken by-product meal, a dry rendered product of slaughterhouse waste. It’s made from what’s left of a slaughtered chicken after all the prime cuts have been removed.

In addition to organs (the nourishing part), this stuff can contain almost anything — feet, beaks, undeveloped eggs — anything except feathers.

On the brighter side, by-product meals are meat concentrates and contain nearly 300% more protein than fresh chicken.

In any case, although this item contains all the amino acids a dog needs, we consider chicken by-products an inexpensive, lower quality ingredient.

The fifth ingredient is corn gluten meal. Gluten is the rubbery residue remaining once corn has had most of its starchy carbohydrate washed out of it.

Although corn gluten meal contains 60% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

And less costly plant-based products like this can notably boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The sixth ingredient is wheat. Wheat is another cereal grain and subject to the same issues as corn (previously discussed).

The seventh ingredient is rice. Is this whole grain rice, brown rice or white rice? Since the word “rice” doesn’t tell us much, it’s impossible to judge the quality of this item.

The eighth ingredient is beef tallow, a fatty by-product of beef rendering. Tallow is high in saturated fats. However, this fat is typically associated with lower quality pet foods.

The ninth ingredient includes soybean meal, a by-product of soybean oil production more commonly found in farm animal feeds.

Although soybean meal contains 48% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

And less costly plant-based products like this can notably boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The next item is poultry by-product meal, a dry rendered product of slaughterhouse waste. It’s made from what’s left of slaughtered poultry after all the prime cuts have been removed.

In addition to organs (the nourishing part), this stuff can contain almost anything — feet, beaks, undeveloped eggs — anything except quality skeletal muscle (real meat).

We consider poultry by-products slightly lower in quality than a single-species ingredient (like chicken by-products).

On the brighter side, by-product meals are meat concentrates and contain nearly 300% more protein than fresh poultry.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With seven notable exceptions

First, we find glycerin. Glycerin is used in the food industry as a natural sweetener and as a humectant to help preserve the moisture content of a product.

Next, we note the use of poultry and pork digest. A digest is a chemically hydrolyzed brew of slaughterhouse waste. Animal digests are usually sprayed onto the surface of a dry dog food to improve its taste.

In addition, garlic oil can be a controversial item. Although many favor the ingredient for its claimed health benefits, garlic has been linked to Heinz body anemia in dogs.1

So, one must weigh the potential benefits of feeding garlic against its proven tendency to cause subclinical damage to the red blood cells of the animal.

Next, we find no mention of probiotics, friendly bacteria applied to the surface of the kibble after processing to help with digestion.

Additionally, we’re always disappointed to find artificial coloring in any pet food. That’s because coloring is used to make the product more appealing to humans — not your dog. After all, do you really think your dog cares what color his food is?

We also note the minerals listed here do not appear to be chelated. And that can make them more difficult to absorb. Non-chelated minerals are usually associated with lower quality dog foods.

And lastly, this food contains menadione, a controversial form of vitamin K linked to liver toxicity, allergies and the abnormal break-down of red blood cells.

Since vitamin K isn’t required by AAFCO in either of its dog food nutrient profiles, we question the use of this substance in any canine formulation.

Purina Beneful Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Purina Beneful Dog Food looks like a below-average dry product.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 31%, a fat level of 16% and estimated carbohydrates of about 45%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 30% and a mean fat level of 14%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 48% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 48%.

Near-average protein. Below-average fat. And near-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

When you consider the protein-boosting effect of the corn gluten meal and soybean meal in this recipe, and the soybean germ meal and canola meal contained in the grain-free recipe, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a moderate amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Purina Beneful is a plant-based dry dog food using a moderate amount of named by-product meal as its main source of animal protein, thus earning the brand 2 stars.

Not recommended.

Please note certain recipes are sometimes given a higher or lower rating based upon our estimate of their total meat content and (when appropriate) their fat-to-protein ratios.

Purina Dog Food
Recall History

The following list (if present) includes all dog food recalls since 2009 directly related to this product line. If there are no recalls listed in this section, we have not yet reported any events.

You can view a complete list of all dog food recalls sorted by date. Or view the same list sorted alphabetically by brand.

To learn why our ratings have nothing to do with a product’s recall history, please visit our Dog Food Recalls FAQ page.

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A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

The Dog Food Advisor does not test dog food products.

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Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

We rely on tips from readers. To report a product change or request an update of any review, please contact us using this form.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, due to the biological uniqueness of every animal, none of our ratings are intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in a specific dietary response or health benefit for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

However, we do receive a fee from for each purchase made as a direct result of a referral from our website. This fee is a fixed dollar amount and has nothing to do with the size of an order or the brand selected for purchase.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

06/04/2017 Last Update

  1. Yamato et al, Heinz Body hemolytic anemia with eccentrocytosis from ingestion of Chinese chive (Allium tuberosum) and garlic (Allium sativum) in a dog, Journal of the American Animal Hospital Association 41:68-73 (2005)
  • William Mac

    Drop them immediately and go for a better brand!!

  • William Mac

    Beneful incredibites have been keeping my dog ill for quite some time while I blamed everything else because she liked them and I stupidly trusted them. It’s subtle poisoning and criminal in my mind. Switched to Wellness core. Immediately started improving.

  • haleycookie

    It looks like the grain free has been meshed into this review. It’s on top of the list and appears to be rated at 2 stars as well

  • Susanne Yang

    I would like to see a review on Beneful’s Grain free dry. It looks like an attempt to produce a better ingredient dry dog food.

  • Cathy Koh

    I feed Acana Singles to my 12yr old shihtzu and she absolutely loves it! I also feed her pork liver during Chinese New Year and wagyu beef on her birthday. When i drink yakult i let her lick the bottle afterwards. She thrives on this diet and i won’t switch to anything else.

  • sharron

    forgot to mention, lexee is 8 1/2 yrs

  • sharron

    Hi Susan, thanks for asking about Lexee, she is doing better today, she didn’t do well at all yesterday, didn’t eat a thing and still had diarrhea. No haven’t looked at Canidae, i think it’s one food she hasn’t tried. Will see if i can get samples…thanks

  • Susan

    Hi Sharon, how Lexee doing? have you tried “Canidae” formula’s ? Canidae Pure formula’s are made for stomach problems, how old is Lexee? Canidae has their Pure Meadow Senior formula, Senior formula’s have Glucosamine & Chondroitin & higher in omega 3… also there’s also “Holistic Select” Patch has done good on both these brands, the kibble size is nice & small & the kibbles digest easily, when you soak a few kibbles they’re soft within 20mins…here’s Canidae’s site go on page 3 for Canidae’s Pure Meadow Senior & have look at the Pure Wild formula as well.. Canidae wet tin foods are good BUT the fat is high around 7% fat, Canidae make their cheaper brand called “Under The Sun” their smaller wet foil foods are good & the fat % is under 4% around 3.5% when you convert 3.5% wet fat to dry matter (kibble), 3.5% fat is around 9-12% fat DM (kibble)…

  • Crazy4cats

    Pretty sure no one is recommending that you feed your dog something that makes them barf. You were the one that made the blanket statement that potatoes are a cheap filler and are not digestible.

  • Crazy4cats

    Thank you! Yes, that was my point. ALL views are welcome. I do not feel a need to put you on ignore.

  • anon101

    That’s nice. However, it does not compare with what a veterinarian that examines a dog and knows it’s history, recommends.
    Sounds like book learned stuff.
    Every dog is different. Blanket statements don’t work in my opinion.
    Best to find a vet that you trust and work with him regarding what is best for your dog.
    Personally, I eat a lot of potatoes.
    My dogs, no. I don’t enjoy cleaning up vomit.

  • aimee

    Hi anon,
    I’ve had very different experience in regard to potato. I’ve found that potato is recommended for dogs with severe intestinal disease.

    Dr Willard, one of the countries leading GI vets, recommends turkey and potato.

    And Jack’s internist recommended venison and potato for his GI issues and it resolved them.

    Raw potato is difficult to digest but properly cooked is very different. Any dog could have an individual sensitivity but overall it appears a useful ingredient for GI troubles.

    Not sure why you say it is a cheap filler. Filler is something of no nutritional value: air water fiber.

    To compare potato and chickpea on an energy basis white potato baked with skin ~8 % protein calories calories and 22 grams total fiber /1000kcals. For chickpea ~18% protein calories and 46 grams total fiber/1000kcals I’d consider chickpea to have the higher “filler” content.

    Here is information from a veterinary nutritionist in response to a question about large stool on Zigniture ” the ingredients are high in fiber … “Peas,
    Chickpeas, Pea Flour, Flaxseed, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal” ………..
    dog is defecating that fiber.” and when asked if grain free diets cause a lot of poop the response was “Inadvertently yes if they replace the CHO
    source with high fiber non-grain ingredients. White potato would be low
    fiber non-grain option.” petdiets

  • anon101


  • Pitlove

    The only part of the potato that is a “filler” is the fibrous part of the potato. Just like chickpeas, peas, rice, corn etc.

  • anon101

    Is there a reason you are confronting me, rather than another poster that has been pushing the same product for months and months and months….no matter what the ailment?

  • haleycookie

    See that’s why Ive had you on ignore for quite awhile because while they may be opinions you seem to think everyone that has a sick dog that it can only be caused by environmental allergies and that they should go and spend hundreds of dollars on a specialists before they try anything themselves. I’ve helped many many people with skin problems yeasty ears and shedding problems all with a change in diet and wam bam everything gets better almost immedietly. Also sorry but I hate to break it you but your vet is not always right. Every vet has different opinions and different thoughts and cramming tons of chemical medications into a dog is not always the best option (shocking I know!) and I’ve had family members spend thousands on allergy testings on cats and dogs just to be told by a vet “i just don’t know what it is sorry” bye bye $$$. Also zignature is not the best. It’s a great food option and It may be the best for your dogs but I’m sure hundreds of people have tried it and come to the conclusion that it’s not the best for their dog so stop saying it’s the best of the best. Also stop telling people that its environmental allergies all the time as if you know the dog and know the exact symptoms and as if you know whether or not the person has even went down that road yet and chose to visit a vet. Then after you come to this magical conclusion out of almost nowhere that it’s environmental and you sit there and say like you know for a fact that that’s what it is when you have very little information you follow it up with “I’m not a vet go see a vet”. If you’re not a vet then stop telling people that’s it’s definitely environment, your dogs not gonna get better until you go spend a ton of money on something that might now even get you anywhere. It’s fine to have opinions but you make it seem like you know everything and that these people should do this this and this and nothing else because it’s all that’s “crap”. Like get a life and let people do what they’re comfortable with. Try and ask more questions and offer all options instead of jumping down peoples throats please. I’ll be returning you back to ignore now. It’s a shame I can’t ignore you in the recents too. Good day.

  • anon101

    I always advise people to consult their veterinarians, first.
    Just sharing my opinion based on my experience, if you don’t like it, put me on ignore
    Easy peasy.

  • Crazy4cats

    I’m happy you found something that works for YOUR dogs. Seems like you and Susan are just having a, “my food is better than your food”, contest. They both may be good choices depending on the dog.

  • anon101

    Well, my vet told me the opposite.
    Sensitive stomach/avoid potato.
    In fact it was a pet supply store employee that first suggested trying a dog food with no potato, she had a dog with allergies.
    That is how I first came to try Nutrisca, and I am glad that I did. It helped a little, in conjunction with treatment prescribed by a veterinary dermatologist.
    PS: Some dogs do experience diarrhea if they eat potatoes. It’s a fact. Potatoes are hard to digest.

  • Crazy4cats

    I didn’t say they were healthier or that I preferred them. I said they are often recommended for a sensitive stomach. It does depend on the dog but I do not believe they cause most dogs to have diarrhea.

  • anon101

    Potato is a cheap filler, it doesn’t agree with some dogs (diarrhea).
    I prefer lentil and chickpeas in my dogs kibble!
    It’s just a healthier choice, imo. Less starch, more protein.

  • Crazy4cats

    I have no idea if NB has too much potato as I’ve never fed it. But, I disagree, well cooked potatoes, either white or sweet are usually recommended for a sensitive tummy.

    I guess it all depends on the dog.

  • anon101

    Natural Balance has too much potato fillers, just my opinion based on my experience.
    If your dog has a sensitive stomach avoid all potato (sweet, white, whatever).
    Zignature is the best! Go to their website and ask questions πŸ™‚

  • InkedMarie

    No you didnt say in your post *today* but you sure have in the past. Why do you think I asked the question?

  • sharron

    i never said in my comments today that my dog was being picky – i’m still feeding her the same wet food and i thought perhaps she would like to eat a different meat protein other than chicken, that’s the only reason – she now eats most foods, as along as they agree with her, it is nothing like it was when she was younger. i thought variety was supposed to be a good thing

  • sharron

    thanks so much

  • Molly & Spencer’s Mom

    She keeps going back to foods that she has already tried and didnt work. No wonder her dog is so picky. Ridiculous!

  • InkedMarie

    You had a food that was finally working, i cant remember which one but why are you looking for something else, again?

  • haleycookie

    I’m not a huge fan of rc. I think it’s definitely way over priced for the quality you’re getting but I also think if you find something she does good on then you can keep her on it. But if you ever do decide to try and switch, the brands I mentioned are pretty good quality. Just maybe try a longer intodruction period since she’s been on royal for so long. A big jump from a lower quality food like royal to one of the highest quality foods, Orijen might need a month and a probiotic mixed in for proper and easy less poopy switching. Another is the fit Orijen probably has higher fiber as with the majority of weight loss foods so I’d also keep that in mind as more fiber = more frequent bigger poops. Good luck

  • sharron

    hi – no she isn’t chubby, 10 lbs – i tried the trim and fit because the fat is lower than the other orijen formulas – i’m not changing foods nilly willy like the other poster said. she’s been on RC for ages, i’ll keep her on the RC can because she really likes it, the dry food i was changing because i thought she might like something other than chicken

  • haleycookie

    I’m not a huge fan of natural balance tbh. I prefer the merrick limited ingredient options. your dog was on the weight loss Orijen formula right? Is she chubby? You don’t necessarily need a weight control formula in my opinion. My cousin has a lab and he can gain 10 lbs in a week if his foods increased just a 1/4 cup a day. That’s a lot of extra food over time it adds up. My cousin basically subtracts the 1/4 from his regular recommended feeding and vetos all treats and he tends to drop the weight within a month. Definitely don’t agree with hardly anything the commenter below posts but zignature isn’t terrible if you are looking for a limited ingredients or novelty ingredient food. They even have kangaroo. I also really like the natures variety limited ingredient formulas. They have a lamb formula that is soft on sensitive tummies. And like I said the solid gold seameal is a good additive to help digestion along as well.

  • anon101

    My terrier developed terrible diarrhea on a Natural Balance product after about 2 weeks. Most likely due to the potato (white and sweet) fillers.
    He immediately returned to normal when he went back on Zignature.
    Believe what you want, and every dog is different. Chickpeas and lentils are good πŸ™‚
    In my opinion switching and rotating foods willy-nilly is the worst thing you can do, find one kibble or soft food that agrees with the dog and use it as a base.
    Add water, different toppers.
    Otherwise, go by what your vet recommends, especially if your dog has a medical condition.
    Blanket statements about food don’t work. Period.
    Find a vet that you trust and see what he suggests.

  • sharron

    Hi – what is your opinion on Natural Balance Limited Ingredients, i’m not going to feed the Orijen, she still has diarrhea, it’s better than it was during the night, right now that’s all i have on hand, and i don’t know what other limited ingredient dog food there is that isn’t loaded with potato, peas, etc…..thanks

  • haleycookie

    Lots of toxic things are sold everyday. Cigarettes for instance are full of hundreds of cancer/disease causing toxins. And plenty of other things that are sneaky and are never noticed. Rancid food that causes food poisoning, and flint michigans water. Granted that’s not being sold but what other water do they have the option of using other then going to the store to buy filtered water for everything they need water for?

  • Super Rob

    Toxic is a big word. If it actually was toxic it would not be sold.

  • anon101

    “I’ve seen a change in their teeth in just one week!”
    My senior dog’s teeth were pristine (vet’s words), I brush them daily times several years.
    However x-rays revealed a full dental and extractions (3 root remnant removals, 4 extractions) were needed due to periodontal disease.
    Only symptoms were discomfort when I tried to brush her teeth, and then some redness, inflammation of the gums in one area. Periodontal disease has a genetic base.
    Dog is much more comfortable now.

  • anon101

    Have they had dentals recently? Periodontal disease is common in small breeds, especially seniors.
    X-rays are often needed to determine if there is a problem. You can’t tell just by looking.
    Also, red inflamed gums are another sign of infection.

    PS: Zignature is an excellent kibble, canned food is good too. My 2 small breeds are thriving on it.
    You can always presoak the kibble and add a bit of wet food as a topper. I always add a splash of water to meals too.
    I had an old peke who only had a few teeth left during his final years and he had no trouble eating anything!Once he had a dental and extractions as needed…’s the pain that would make it hard to chew, otherwise they adjust.

  • Susan

    Hi just make sure what ever kibble you pick stay around the same protein fat & fiber % to begin with, don’t go from Beneful to a rich formula where the protein & fat is real high..
    My boy does real well on “Canidae” Pure Wild, or Life Stages formula’s the kibble size is nice & small & very easy to digest.
    “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb is an all life stages formula, Patch does real well on as well he’s nilly 9yrs old, TOTW is his favorite must taste good & doesn’t cause upset stomach..
    Here are some cheaper brands made by the same company makes TOTW Diamond…
    “4health” Small Breed, the fat & protein will be around what they’re eating at the moment sold at Tractor Supply also 4Health wet tin foods cost 99c…

    Costco sells “Kirkland Signature” Nature’s Domain wet & dry formula’s.. Wet tin food would be good to feed for 1 of their meals, but read the fat % & stay around 2-5% fat in wet tin foods.. your dogs are small & wouldnt eat that much so a 13.2oz wet tin would feed 2 meals between them all with some kibble in a bowl.. there’s.”Diamond Naturals” Small Breed..

    Aldi’s have a good kibble called “Pure Being” it’s grain free with good ingredients, just make sure you add their old food for about 7 days less new first 1-2 days then start increasing the new food & decrease their old food so they don’t have any digestive problems you don’t want to be woken up 2am to a dog crying to get outside to have diarhea….Just watch some grain free kibbles with Chickpeas & Lentils can cause diarrhea if they’re not use to eating them.

  • Zoiee Garlington

    i love this! i really hope the world starts to wake up and come together to remove this toxicity from the stores!

  • Zoiee Garlington

    thats like saying you won’t make your kids eat their fruits and veggies because they don’t like them lol i obviously don’t know your dogs and their current health status, however i know how toxic Beneful is and i really hope you consider changing their foods… maybe try taste of the wild, wellness, earthborn, fromm… there are a ton of options… and most places give full refunds if your dog doesn’t like it

  • Zoiee Garlington

    just a note: i tried Merrick backcountry with raw infused bites for about a month and my 12 year old yorkie, thats never had a yeast infection since I’ve gotten her about 5 years ago, got a severe yeast infection on her feet and private parts. she was miserable! i also have a friend that had the same experience with her 2 year old Tibetan terrier. (both are purebred) i don’t know if breed makes a difference, I’m just stating it

  • Zoiee Garlington

    I really loved Taste of the wild, my dogs coats were amazing and they’re incredibly healthy! the only time we go to the vet is for shots:) i recently began transitioning them to a raw diet and its going great, I’ve seen a change in their teeth in just one week!

  • haleycookie

    If you’re looking for something affordable you might look into whole earth farms small breed or whole hearted small breed. Both are carried at petco and both come in 12 lbs bags (26.99) and 5-6lbs (9.99) bags. If you’re looking for the best of the best and money isn’t an object I’d look at merrick, wellness core, natures variety instinct, Orijen, acana, and solid gold, I believe most of them have a small breed formula or two. Or just look around this website and pick a 4-5 star food you feel is in your price range and offers a small breed formula. I hope you find something they enjoy. Good luck.

  • Sarah Cameron

    I have, 3 female chihuahua minpin mix. 2 of them are 15 months old and mama dog is approx 8+ yrs old. They all love beneful incredibites but if theyre,health is at risk im switching theyre food immedietly TODAY!!! These dogs are my whole world and i am thiers. Can someone plz recommend another brand? I prefer something dry easy to chew for mama, shes getting old and her teeth are not as strong as they once were. Im taking them to the vet asap.

  • TuesNightPoker

    Shut up. You sound like a lunatic.

  • Veronika

    Well Rachel Ray is actually locked into a lawsuit right now for lying about its ingredients so you essentially changed from one bad to another disaster of cancerous proportions all I’ve ever heard with Rachel’s food is bad things haha, so it’s likely they do indeed lie about their food.

    The new Beneful ain’t that bad but it’s still a brand I’d never use because of the damage it has done, I don’t know about prices in the USA with food but I guess it would be good to know since I do want to be a holistic nutritionist and you can’t really do that with limited info.
    I after all need to be able to help everyone not just Australians.

    I do remember people suggesting Pure Balance, but there was some concerns with even that.

    Purina and Mars have this new thing going on called “farm raised” the problem with this is that every animal is farm raised so essentially the meat could be from factory farms as after all this is still a farm so eww and factory farms are sick, the things I’ve seen.

    I wouldn’t use any of their food for these reasons alone and because of what I’ve seen and read the last 6 years.

    It’s your choice now what you want to do, if Beneful works for you that’s fine, but I wouldn’t recommend it as a future nutritionist.

  • Sally Drumm

    OK I started my 1 year old rescue on Beneful salmon,, 10 years later I read all the scary reviews and take her off it, and try the grain free, la- de da. stuff. She starts losing her hair, and then when I switched to Rachel Rays grain free (slowly) she got really awful diarrhea. Vet says, she doesn’t need grain free, Purina One etc. is fine. I go to the store and read the “new Beneful salmon label” and the Purina One label, and Beneful had more nutritious product in it so we are trying it again. Here’s hoping.

  • Lauren

    I wouldn’t say that because, even though they added blueberries, dried pumpkin, and dried spinach, they’re far down in the list. Aside from those, none of the ingredients are better than the ones in their previous formulas.

  • gaby T

    This is the worst dog food. I started to feed my dog with this products and my puppy got sick. I had to take him to the vet and the doctor told me that my puppy had a serius gastritis problem due the alimentary habbits, and all I gave to him was this beneful purina dog food.

  • Super Rob

    My dogs love the Beneful Incredibites. We have bought many of the high quality dog foods and they didn’t like it. Even their favorite from Kirkland brand from Costco they would eat when they were really hungry. This Incredibites stuff you would think I put a whole chicken in their bowls they way they ate it. They NEVER have instantly started eating another brand of dry food. I’m not going to make them go through life having to choke down some “quality” stuff because it’s better.

  • Lacey

    Do “WE” really know what goes into all these dry kibble dog foods and wet (canned) for that matter. No we don’t. We hear so many stories of this that that being recalled. Even the top notch (what we think is top notch) isn’t as truthful as they claim to be. Do I still feed a dry kibble… well I’m sad to say I do but yes there is a but… I also home cook for them as well. They get kibble with bone broth and some canned pumpkin in the am and their dinner is home cooked about 5 nights a weeks and a combination of the two the other nights. I do the best I can do with the resources I have. I don’t knock anyone who feeds kibble but if you can do better for your pets great do it but if you can’t well so be it. The way I see it, it’s one less (or more) pet that is going hungry, stuck in a shelter and even worse… the unthinkable. So love your pet for as long as they are with you…

  • Bobby dog

    Hello Teri:
    I have been feeding Purina One Vibrant Maturity kibble for the past month. My pup is doing very well on this recipe line too. I just opened a second bag this morning and as usual he went back to his dish a few minutes after he finished to lick it clean some more.

  • Teri

    Well I can tell you this fact. My male dog cant eat high quality grain fee etc foods, too powerful for his digestive. So Purina One the red bag Large Breed adult Is the only thing that has been working for him. His sister though get really gassing so eats another brand mid-high quality. A dog we had lived to be 13yr full healthy life had now issues with Purina Healthy Weight. This was back in the late 90’s to 2010. So maybe things changed. Trying different foods is what works for my furkids. I do read all labels and research.

  • Felicia n Braun

    i got free samples of the beneful dry – grain free dog food. Of course my dog loves it… but i’m more concerned if its a better recipe than the other recipes in the past. I mean my dog loves Beneful! But i like chocolate cake, doesn’t mean it’s good for me right? thoughts?

  • aimee

    Hi Colleen,

    The clean label review is based on testing the food for the presence of contaminants. To answer your question, I view the rankings as “real and based on true research.” with the rankings based using their criteria. How relevant their criteria are is an open question for me.

    This site uses a label to rank foods, I consider that evaluation to be only one of many factors in evaluating a food. Another aspect of food evaluation is quality control, one part of which clean label is addressing.

    Two very different approaches which is why you see two very different rankings. No reason why you can’t look at both ratings and choose a food that meets your comfort levels for both aspects.

    In general clean label found that fish based diets are higher in contaminants than other sources which makes sense considering all the recommendations for people to limit consumption of fish.

  • Colleen Nihill

    I really want Dog Food Advisor to speak to the 5 star review Purina Beneful Originals received from “clean label project” – which gave my choice in food – Earthborn Coastal Catch one of their lowest ratings !! Is this “label review” from them real and based on true research ??

  • Alexandria Siwecki


  • Susan

    Hi, so sorry with what has happened with your dog, you’d think Purina would call you back & have SOME compassion…. Years ago I feed Beneful to my boxer, you look at all the fresh veggies & meat on the front of the kibble bag, looks so good, I was lucky my boxer stopped eating Beneful thank-god but I have a dog that I rescued 4 yrs ago & he has IBD & the vet thinks he was feed a poor quality supermarket kibble, one vet said Aldi cheap kibble, I live Australia & the Aldis kibbles are nasty… he has problems digesting foods, stomach pain, sloppy poos, acid reflux, the only kibble he does well on is the “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb kibble, I often try a new kibble hoping to find another kibble that works for him & I can rotate all the time but something happens & we go back to the TOTW kibble, even try all the vet diets, he gets acid reflux & skin problems from the ingredients, I just hope TOTW doesn’t change their formula cause he’s having problems eating his cooked meal now, you’d think he’d do better eating a cooked meal but he seems to do better eating a kibble.

  • Sbrown

    My dog had liver and kidney failure and the only thing the vet could think of was her food which was beneful. After contacting the company we received a phone call and were asked to submit information which we did and never heard back. Coincidentally they have changed their formula since then, but my dog now has to be on medication for the rest of her life and has to be on a special diet due to the trouble digesting and processing pretty damn near anything.
    DONT feed this to your dogs, maybe your worst enemy but not your beloved canines. Thanks for the follow up beneful!

  • Amy Eades

    A few to several months ago Beneful changed their formula. I knew the previous formula had a ton of bad reviews and there actually was a law suit at one point. With the old formula people swore up and down the dog food was making their dogs deathly ill and even killing some. Since they revamped the formula I assumed it was better and they changed whatever was in it that was making so many dogs sick although Purina (the maker of Beneful) has always denied the accusations. I started Clyde on Beneful because again they had changed the formula and they have made real meat its #1 ingredient. On day one Clyde had started throwing up at least once a day and sometimes even more. I had suspected the dog food but dismissed it because I thought there was no way it would make him sick starting the first day and it was most likely a coincidence. He continued to eat and drink fine, he didn’t really seem sick other than a slight difference in his energy and the vomiting. So we continued to just monitor him for 10 to 14 days and he just wasn’t getting better. Well I took a shot at discontinuing the Beneful and put him on something completely different. That was a week ago and since switching the food Clyde has not thrown up once and his energy is completely back to normal! IT WAS HANDS DOWN THE DOG FOOD BENEFUL! After looking into this for several days some dogs aren’t as lucky as Clyde and do not survive! Some dogs don’t show any symptoms or barely any until it’s too late and their organs are starting to shut down. Purina got the law suit dismissed only because the things that this food does to dogs can also be blamed on other things so there’s just no way for them to 100 % positively pin it on Purina. But like myself and so many others we know it’s Beneful and there isn’t a doubt in our minds!

  • Amateria

    I wonder if the mood for what you mentioned will last till tomorrow, just the mention of steamed chicken and veggies on a bed of rice is making me salivate haha, might be a good idea I haven’t really had good clean food in awhile.

  • Susan

    Hi, its like offering your child a bowl of steamed chicken & veggies or you offer your child fried chicken or a cheese burger for dinner they are going to pick the fried chicken or cheese bugger & not want the good healthy meal..

  • Swoosh


  • disqus_SBl7sCuYS7

    It could be the same reason that people love Chinese food, msg, salt. Yum.

  • Swoosh

    My dog will nibble on From and other top brands….i put a bowl of beneful out and he acts like he’s never eaten in his life. It makes no sense that he likes this stuff.

  • casey

    To be expected switching from one of the best pet foods to one of the worst. Just buy Pro Pac, its lower cost and made by earthborn. best of luck. hope the pups will be ok.

  • Dol E. Deaad

    Thank you so much!!! I will definitely look for those brands. She’s doing really well now. Still have her on beef/rice for the next few days.

  • Susan

    Hi, Earthborn Holistic also make “Sportmix Wholesomes” Dry &
    “Pro Pac Ultimates” Dry-grain free & Brown rice formulas,
    all made by Midwestern pet foods. Sportmix a 40lb bag is around $27-$30 Pro Pac a 28lb bag is around $29-$34.
    Earthborn Holistic Weight management is very high in fiber it’s around 8%-fiber & lower in fat, the dog that was sick make sure you stay around the same amount of fat % he may suffer from acid reflux & can’t have too much fat & crappy ingredients that are in the Beneful has..
    I would rotate between different brands & proteins & slowly introduce over 10-15days, so their stomach/bowel gets accustom to the new kibble, then feed one formula for say breakfast & then feed another formula with a different protein for dinner….
    Also have a look at “Canidae” Life Stages, Platinum, the fat is low 8.50% like the Earthborn Holistic kibble is & the Kcals-342% also “Canidae” Life Stages, All Life Stages kibble has their 44lbs bag for $56.99 the Canidae Platinum 30lb bag is $46.54. the fat is higher in the Canidae Life Stages All Life Stages formula at 14.50%… I feed my IBD dog the Canidae Platinum in his rotation, he loves it & the kibble size is very small which is good it’s easier to digest, especially if they gulp their kibble like my boy does..

  • Dol E. Deaad

    Earthborn Holistic Weight Management is $46 here, and with coupons about $40. But that’s for 28#’s. It prolly evens out. I need GF for my bulldog. And weight management. They’re all divas! I used to do Chewy’s scheduled shipping till I found a local pet store that was reasonable. And after 12 bags, one is free.

  • InkedMarie

    I’m at Chewy right now….depending on the formula, I see 44lb bags for $64.99 & 69.99…is Earthborn cheaper than that? Those are grain inclusives.

    The grainfree’s are 30lb bags for $62.99 & $69.99

  • Dol E. Deaad

    His is very pricey for the amount I go through. I’ll check out tho. Thank you! I just bought more Earthborn Holistic, as it was on sale. I just may stay on that. My 200 lb Mastiff eats a lot!!

  • InkedMarie

    Have you looked at Dr Tim’s? Some of his formulas are available in 40 and 44/45 pound bags. Very good food. I hear good things about Victor as well.

    I believe Chewy dotcom sells both; also look at PetFlow, Wag and Pet Food Direct

  • Dol E. Deaad

    My vet said to do the rice and beef for awhile. She doesn’t think the short amount of time will hurt. Then I found out from the person we adopted our lab from, that she always got sick eating “colored food”. Ugh. Thank you! I’ll look up your food. I’ve one that’s allergic to lamb.
    It never ends!

  • disqus_SBl7sCuYS7

    Storage mite allergy, may be more of an environmental allergy. I would consult a veterinary dermatologist (for the best results). The food may have nothing to do with it.

  • disqus_SBl7sCuYS7

    I hope your dogs are okay.

    I use Dogswell chicken and oatmeal kibble or Newman’s Own Advanced kibble for my terrier, with good results. I mix it with the Nutrisca kibble that my other dog with allergies does best on. Check chewy dot com

  • Dol E. Deaad

    I have 6 dogs ranging from 18 lbs to 200 lbs. Buying an affordable, good quality food isn’t easy. We have been feeding Earthborn Hollistic Weight Management, but were looking to make it last longer than 28 lbs in a little over a week. So, I bought Beneful to add and mix them together. The 2nd day of the mixed food, my mastiff and my lab threw up. I thought I had added too much of the new stuff, so kept feeding the food. My Mastiff was fine, but my lab keeps throwing up. Then I read the comments about Beneful. I threw out $90 of dog food this am — my money saving mix. I’ve a call into my vet right now to get my lab in for blood work. I only hope that because they only had the Beneful mix for about a week – no damage was done. Why this stuff is still for sale is beyond me. I read that the class action suit against them was dropped, but, the reasons it was dropped were basically because the company had a good lawyer. Please don’t buy this food!!!! I’m going to the pet store tonight to buy more Earthborn Hollistics — to hell with saving money…I’d rather have healthy dogs. It’s insane that our government doesn’t regulate pet food. We allow too many things in human food as it is, that other countries do not. I never even consider what they must think is OK for pet food. Buyer’s beware!

  • isabel gonzalez

    Royal canin is also bad, but not as bad as Beneful.

  • Katie Vance

    I hope you’re joking, that food is no better and some vets only recommend it because they are getting paid.

  • FDT

    I gave my dog dry beneful he started to vomit a few minutes after eating this crap food. The next day he started wobbling and could barely walk. Then he started having seizures, it was so heartbreaking, and sad to watch. I immediately took him to the vet. Which cost me 300 dollars, the vet said if i hadn’t took him earlier he couldve died. They put him on I.V and kept him overnight. Thank god he survived this, my advice. DO NOT FEED YOUR DOG THIS CRAP. I have contacted purina and all they can say is “we stand by our food”. I am so angry right now I’m on here to just let everyone know about this. Thanks for reading

  • disqus_KcQ8ov

    I made a comment but they thought it was spam. Anyway, storage mites and dust mites are all in the same family and tend to co-exist (they are microscopic and are everywhere). The only thing that helped my dog was ASIT (allergen specific immunotherapy).
    Go to the Forums section of this site and search “allergies”
    Consider seeing a dermatologist.

  • Janet Kudravetz

    My daughter’s dog as a storage mite allergy. He’s currently on a prescription dry food, but when we transition him we’re concerned about it starting all over again. I just joined this site to do some research on the cleanest facilities, freshest ingredients, etc., but would love to hear from anyone who’s had experience with this. I’m looking at Merrick or Nature’s Variety Instinct, or switching to canned if necessary. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

  • mahoraner

    Really the only difference from the old beneful to the “new” beneful is the chicken as the first ingredient, And to be honest, i think the only reason why they did that is because most dog owners (that i know), they just look at the first ingredient and think “oooh! chicken’s the first ingredient! this must be good,” or “oooh, corn is the first ingredient, this must be bad” (if they even care to read the ingredients, or dont get distracted by the “pretty” package)
    people need to understand that a dog food label could have chicken as the first ingredient, and sugar, by-products, dyes, etc as the next.

    so what im saying is “dont judge a book by its cover” (dont judge the quality of a dog food by the label, or the first ingredient)

  • Crazy4dogs

    Thanks for sharing! That was great! πŸ™‚

  • GSDsForever

    lol, labs.

    The last time I recall someone on DFA denouncing another food as terrible and RC as THE BEST (how come it always seems to go this way?), someone claimed that another food, this time super premium, made ALL her dog’s fur fall out in 48 hrs (or something like that). And, you know, RC saved the day!

    Of course, I remain humbly fascinated and entertained by things like RC’s breeds specific line.

    And just when I was mulling over whether the GSD one was the answer to all our prayers in the breed fancy, after a very, very zealous Petsmart RC sales rep insisted it was so, I see here

    that whatever reservations I might have for my breed’s magic formula . . . apparently life really sucks for you if you are a Bulldog living in the UK on RC breed specific. Fascinating.

  • aimee


  • Shawna

    We’ll have to agree to disagree.

  • aimee

    Hi Shawna,
    The discussion started when you asked if my daughter ingested table sugar, which is sucrose, which is C12H22O11 at every meal and I said yes pretty much so. I indicated that sometimes sucrose, C12H22O11, is a component of baked goods and sometimes it is a component of fruits or vegetables.

    Crazt4dogs replied “”You are again trying to compare refined (table) sugar to natural sugar
    that occurs in fruits and vegetables. They are not nutritionallly(sic) equal”

    The sentence structure used clearly indicates that what was being said was that table sugar, which is sucrose, which is C12H22O11 is nutritionally different from the same sugar molecule, C12H22O11 that can be found in fruits and vegetables.

    It was from then on an enigma as Crazy4dogs said sucrose, C12H22O11 from a bag or C12H22O11 from fruit were processed the same way by the body while at the same time clearly stating the they were nutritionally different.

    Whenever asked why there would be a nutritional difference between C12H22O11 from a bag or C12H22O11 from fruit. Crazy4dogs would compare C12H22O11 to an item containing C12H22O11.

  • Shawna

    Hi aimee,

    I did not interpret C4d’s posts the same as you. It has actually been quite clear to me that she was discussing whole food versus molecule from the very first post. To further support my reasons for thinking that she wrote in the second comment to you on this thread seven days ago “I said earlier that refined sugar vs natural sugar are processed by the body the same way.”

    Then she quotes a nutritionist “”Comparing the Nutrition
    While the body treats the sugar in fruit the same way it treats table sugar, there are significant differences in the nutritional composition of both foods as a whole. Table sugar is a source of empty calories, while fruit provides a variety of health-promoting nutrients including fiber, vitamins A and C and potassium.” and “There is no comparison. If you are looking at the food as a whole, refined sugar has no other attributes. None. Period.”

    I have no idea how you could interpret molecule from that.

    You then replied “I asked: What is nutritionally different between “refined (table) sugar” and “natural sugar”?”

    I actually think she did answer your question “I said earlier that refined sugar vs natural sugar are processed by the body the same way.”

    You made the discussion about the molecule not the whole food from what I can see.

  • aimee

    Hi Crazy24 dogs,

    When you wrote “”You are again trying to compare refined (table) sugar to natural sugar
    that occurs in fruits and vegetables. They are not nutritionallly(sic) equal”

    I interpreted it as you saying the sugar from a bag is different from sugar from fruit or vegetable. Then you added “The original debate was regarding the sugar”

    From my perspective the discussion started about the molecule and always
    was about the molecule. That is why I couldn’t see why you said they were nutritionally different.

    Sugar: “sweet substance usually in the form of white or brown crystals or white powder that comes from plants and is used to make foods sweeter; and preservative of other foods; any one of various substances that are found in plants and that your body uses or stores for energy

    A sweet crystalline or powdered substance, white when pure, consisting of sucrose obtained mainly from sugarcane and sugar beets and used in many foods, drinks, and medicines to improve their taste. Also called table sugar.

    2. Any of a class of water-soluble crystalline carbohydrates, including sucrose and lactose, having a characteristically sweet taste and classified as monosaccharides, disaccharides, and trisaccharides.

    I agree the refined sugar has no nutritional value other than an energy source. And I’m ok with that. My opinion is that refined sugar can be used in a responsible way. This is why i said look at the food as a whole. I’m not concerned about the small amount of refined sugar used in Grandmother’s roll recipe as the small amount is balanced out bu other healthful ingredients. I would be concerned about breakfast number two without any refined sugar as the meal was sugar heavy.

  • aimee

    Hi Crazy4dogs,

    You wrote “Breakfast A is nutritionally complete and balanced via the vitamin” I’d very very strongly disagree with that statement.

    “Breakfast A: A Coke or Pepsi followed by a vitamin pill.”

    Humans, just like dogs, have nutrient needs for amino acids from proteins, essential fatty acids from fats and minerals in addition to vitamins. Breakfast A is devoid of protein and fats and nearly all minerals.

    I’d also very strongly disagree that Breakfast A correlates to a diet such as Beneful that meets an AAFCO profile while Breakfast B would correlate to Grandma Lucy’s or Honest Kitchen.

    Please note that AAFCO does not approve foods. “Kind of sounds like Beneful or some other AAFCO approved dog food containing sugar”

  • Shawna

    EXACTLY — there are SO MANY healthier options to use than “sugar” in any diet let alone a canine kibbled diet.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Interesting choice, since Breakfast A is nutritionally complete and balanced via the vitamin, but has some added refined sugar. Breakfast B is made from all fresh ingredients, but is not necessarily nutritionally complete since there is no guarantee of what the ingredients are or that they are complete. Kind of sounds like Beneful or some other AAFCO approved dog food vs The Honest Kitchen or Grandma Lucy’s doesn’t it? πŸ˜‰

  • Shawna

    Table sugar is from a “natural” source as well. It’s the refining of the sugar that I find unnatural so, with this in mind, I would not consider your breakfast juice any more or any less natural than table sugar. I’d much prefer a fruit smoothie to fruit juice.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Ok, final answer and discussion. I guess in the course of the discussion, you didn’t make it apparent that we are only discussing molecules vs nutrition since the whole discussion was geared towards the nutritional aspect of the equivalent sugar found in whole foods vs refined sugar in a bag. Now, apparently, you have switched the discussion again.

    In regard to your “breakfast scenario”:

    “Which is the better breakfast for my child? A breakfast consisting of a pancake from a recipe that contained a small amount of refined sugar served with a sprinkle of cinnamon and a 6 ounce glass of milk or a breakfast pancake made without any refined sugar and served with a tablespoon of natural maple syrup and 6 ounces of apple juice.”

    Since we are only comparing the nutritional value of “sugar” wouldn’t the correct scenario be:

    A breakfast consisting of a pancake from a recipe that contained a small amount of refined sugar served with a sprinkle of cinnamon and a 6 ounce glass of milk or a breakfast pancake made without any refined sugar and served with a tablespoon of natural maple syrup and 6 ounces of milk.

    If you use apple juice, you are changing the diet and adding more sugar. Yes, I realize the juice and milk have different nutrients, but you are moving the discussion to the sugar, so I am doing to what you are requesting, natural vs refined table sugar.

    Nutrition in refined sugar:

    Nutrition is natural maple sugar syrup:

    I am not including the cinnamon, as you are only comparing the biological value in SUGAR There is some value in the cinnamon, but you are comparing sugars, not spices and there is no data on a “sprinkle”, only on a teaspoon:

    If you insist on using the “sugar molecule” discussion, which you have now switched to vs your previous comments “I think I made it quite clear that I take a holistic view and look at the whole diet or whole food” comments, I would think you could understand my confusion:

    Your post:

    “I look at the food as a whole. The whole wheat roll I make has fiber and protein and vitamins in it and some sucrose. An apple has vitamins and fiber a bit of protein and some sucrose.”

    With Beneful there was sugar in the recipe but look at the food as a whole instead of separating out one component. The dog cannot eat the sugar straight up. it comes with a lot of nutrients.”

    It seems that you have indeed changed your argument to looking at the molecular structure and separating out one component as opposed to viewing the food as a whole.

    So, as I tried to tell you in the many other posts, NO, they are not the same on a nutritional level. There are subtle differences, but the maple syrup contains some value, while the refined sugar has none. No matter how you spin it, the body is going to extract whatever nutrients are in the “container” of the maple sugar while there is NOTHING on a nutrient level in the refined sugar.


  • bojangles

    Hi Aimee

    Why do you feed your dogs kibble when you clearly have the knowledge to feed them a much higher quality and less processed 100% home made diet?

  • aimee

    Hi Shawna,

    I’d disagree that “Honey is also a simple sugar.”,. Honey contains simple sugars and is primarily sugars but it is more than just sugar.

    From your source “Honey is composed of various sugars, flavonoids, phenolic acids, enzymes, amino acids, proteins, and miscellaneous compounds (Table 1). Its composition varies according to floral sources and origin [8].”

    And as you said you can see the same with maple syrup “Further Investigation Into Maple Syrup Yields Three New Lignans, a
    New Phenylpropanoid, and Twenty-Six Other Phytochemicals”

    But if you limit the discussion to sugar, as you quoted from your source “Sugar is sugar.”

  • aimee

    In answer to your question “Which is the better nutrition” even through you already know how I’d answer.

    I’ll confirm for you that I would choose Breakfast B over breakfast A

  • aimee

    Hi bojangles,

    Yes, as you said, “C4d has replied” to the question I posed, but C4D never answered.

    Same as the breakfast scenerio. C4D replied to the question but didn’t answer it.

  • aimee

    I’m sorry that you are confused.

    You said that the sugar molecule C12H22O11 from a bag is processed the same as the sugar molecule C12H22O11 from fruit. We agree on this point.

    We also agree that when comparing refined sugar to fruit that the fruit is a source of other nutrients while the refined sugar is not.

    Where we disagree is that I see the the nutritional value of a C12H22O11
    molecule from a bag of sugar as being nutritionally equivalent to a C12H22O11
    molecule from fruit and you said they are different.

    .As you said “The original debate was regarding the sugar”. Please limit the discussion to the sugar molecule and only the sugar molecule. What is nutritionally different between a sugar molecule taken out of the bag and a sugar molecule taken out of a piece of fruit?

    You have replied but you didn’t answer.

    I received the same type of response to the breakfast scenario. You replied, but you didn’t answer the question.

    I asked “Which is the better breakfast for my child? ” and you replied. “I wouldn’t choose either breakfast”

    I asked you to rank one over the other and you did not rank them.

    I went on to say “I’d say the first breakfast, using refined sugar is more healthful than
    the second breakfast without refined sugar. Do you agree of disagree?”

    Your didn’t answer the question.

    I do agree with you that there is no point in continuing this discussion

  • aimee

    The second breakfast is primarily sugar, sugar and more sugar, though from natural sources.

    The first breakfast is better but could could be improved upon. I see it as lacking in phytonutrients, I like color with all my meals, and light on protein.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I’m confused. Either you did not read my answers, you lack either reading or comprehension skills or simply want to continue arguing a debate that I already said: “As far as this discussion, I’m done. We will have to agree to disagree. I just don’t have the time to continue this, so I’m getting off this merry go round. ;-)”

    I anwerered your question more times than I care to think. The original debate was regarding the sugar in fruits or vegetables (natural sugar) vs refined sugar.

    Do you really want me to include the links to all of these posts in which I answered the question? Because I will.

  • bojangles

    Hi aimee,

    C4d has replied to your question 3 times already!

    Do you think by asking her the same question over and over you’ll finally get the answer you want?

  • Shawna

    This is interesting too. From the Journal of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
    Substantial differences in total antioxidant content of different sweeteners were found. Refined sugar, corn syrup, and agave nectar contained minimal antioxidant activity (<0.01 mmol FRAP/100 g); raw cane sugar had a higher FRAP (0.1 mmol/100 g). Dark and blackstrap molasses had the highest FRAP (4.6 to 4.9 mmol/100 g), while maple syrup, brown sugar, and honey showed intermediate antioxidant capacity (0.2 to 0.7 mmol FRAP/100 g). Based on an average intake of 130 g/day refined sugars and the antioxidant activity measured in typical diets, substituting alternative sweeteners could increase antioxidant intake an average of 2.6 mmol/day, similar to the amount found in a serving of berries or nuts."

  • Shawna

    Refined table sugar is a nutrient depleted, highly processed and potentially genetically modified food substance.

    Honey is also a simple sugar. “Ask a scientist” on Huffington Post article says this about honey. “Sugar is sugar. And honey is (mostly) sugar. But if you’re choosing between the two from a health perspective, err on the side of the sticky stuff.” He goes on to say “And there are also about 20 other sugars in the mix, many of which are much more complex, and dextrin, a type of starchy fiber. This means that your body expends more energy to break it all down to glucose. Therefore, you end up accumulating fewer calories from it.”

    Honey has also been shown to prevent and kill cancer cells. In this study they actually say this “Honey modulates the body immune system. There are still many unanswered questions; why sugar is carcinogenic, while honey which is basically sugar has anticarcinogenic properties”

    Not all simple sugars are created equal.

  • Shawna

    Yes, of course, they do consume simple sugars (on occasion) but it is not a large part, or even any part, of every meal.

    So you don’t consider the two breakfasts you created as healthy? Can you explain why you don’t find them healthy?

  • aimee

    I “made” two meals for the sake of comparison but no where did I say that either breakfast was “actually healthy” so I don’t see that you can say “but where we differ is that I don’t consider either breakfast actually healthy”

    You never did answer my question “Do your grand kids ever consume any simple sugars?”

    I did answer yours.

  • aimee

    Actually you never did answer the question.

    To recap you said:
    “You are again trying to compare refined (table) sugar to natural sugar that occurs in fruits and vegetables. They are not nutritionallly(sic) equal”

    You clearly are comparing refined table sugar to natural sugar and stating that they are not the nutritionally equal.

    You are not comparing refined table sugar to fruit as you wrote “compare refined (table) sugar to natural sugar” not compare refined (table) sugar to fruit which contains natural sugar.

    You “answer” compares table sugar to fruit but that is not what I asked. I asked “What is nutritionally different between “refined (table) sugar” and “natural sugar”” as it is those two things that you said are nutritionally different.

    Hopefully you can now see why you never answered my question.

  • Cannoli

    Nutritionists are like vets and lawyers. There are too many of them and not enough jobs. Especially with all the debt they incur after graduating. They gotta work somewhere

  • Storm’s Mom

    Ah, so THIS is why the “veterinary nutritionists” that aimee likes to quote are soooo far off the mark!!! They are not “nutritionists” in the way that we think of the profession for humans, but in the sense that they follow this (ridiculous) belief in “nutritionism”. I (finally) get it now!!! Clever/deceptive bit of MARKETING that these “nutritionists” have done. Why am I not surprised?! …and not surprised that most of them work for Purina, RC, etc or promote those companies in their “recommendations”.

  • Shawna

    I have to agree with bojangles. What you are discussing is nutritionism not holism.

    “Nutritionism is an ideology that includes the misguided belief that scientists can engineer a food that’s better than that of Mother Nature

    Followers of nutritionism believe the source and condition of the ingredients used to make any pet food have nothing to do with the quality of the finished product.”

  • bojangles

    “So when I said “Look at the diet from a holistic point of view.” that would mean to look at the diet as a whole instead of focusing on one part”

    I expected nothing less than misdirection from you, so thank you for not disappointing me πŸ™‚

    In case you would like to learn something, instead of trying so hard to manipulate the meaning of things to suit your personal agenda, I leave you with the following quote:

    “Holistic nutrition is all about eating healthy food as close to its natural state as possible for optimum health and well- being. Hallmarks of holistic nutrition include unrefined, unprocessed, organic and locally grown whole foods”

  • aimee

    Hi bojangles,

    The word holistic is defined as

    “relating to the whole of something or to the total system instead of just to its parts”

    “relating to or concerned with complete systems rather than with individual parts”

    So when I said “Look at the diet from a holistic point of view.” that would mean to look at the diet as a whole instead of focusing on one part.

  • Shawna

    I would so totally try that if I could eat cheese without getting sick. πŸ™

  • LabsRawesome

    Agreed. It’s not good for any living thing. πŸ™‚

  • Shawna

    I get pasture raised too but mine aren’t as fresh as yours..

  • theBCnut

    It’s all the sugar. Science has shown it’s not good for you.

  • LabsRawesome

    Compare Beneful to Royal Canin?

  • LabsRawesome

    Hahaha theBCnut, you kill me! πŸ™‚ I like my lunch with a side of diabetes too. πŸ˜‰

  • theBCnut

    Funny you should mention that… I do drink Mountain Dew with lunch, so I’m pretty sure I get enough. LOL!!

  • LabsRawesome

    That’s nice. But I don’t think you’re getting your RDA of sugar. Maybe you should add a Coke or Pepsi to your meal.

  • Cannoli

    i make a mean pizza using cauliflower as the crust. i grind the cauliflower up and turn into a flour like consistancy. then i lay it in the pan and bake it. afterwards i add the sauce, cheese, and toppings

  • theBCnut

    Pasture raised eggs, fresh fruit, and a handful of nuts for me. Oh, and my own raw goat milk.

  • bojangles

    “Look at the diet from a holistic point of view”

    Earth calling aimee, come in aimee.

    You are one of DFA’s poster children for NOT feeding their dogs a holistic diet.

    I have been feeding my dogs a homemade raw and lightly cooked diet made with pasture raised meats, organs, ground bones and wild caught fish, supplemented with omega 3’s and organic oils, balanced with a wide variety of organic pureed fruits, vegetables and supplements for the last 20 years.

    You have been feeding your dogs Purina πŸ™‚

  • Amateria

    The skeleton memes are awesome.

    A huge amount of people were once waiting for the sub version of an anime to come out (took forever!) there was skeleton memes on almost every post πŸ˜›

  • Shawna

    I wouldn’t eat either breakfast, as described, but if I had to pick one….. πŸ™‚

    This morning I had 1/3 cup of mixed nuts (hazelnuts, cashews, brazil nuts, pecans and macadamia). I also make eggs in muffin tins with bacon and leftover veggies from previous evenings meals. Another favorite is a recipe I acquired from a class given by a nutritionist at a local health food store — paleo “breakfast bread” made with almond butter and almond meal. Lightly toasted with Kerrygold butter —- YUM That reminds me, I misplaced the recipe and need to get looking for it. πŸ™‚

    We eat a lot of avocado’s (I think they may be my granddaughter’s favorite food) but usually at lunch or dinner.

    I found this amazing recipe for fish — take tilapia (cod works too) and cover with dijon mustard of choice and then coat the mustard with almond meal w/ a dash of paprika and gently fry in coconut oil. One of our favorite dishes.

    I can’t have dairy and Damon can’t have gluten so I have to think outside the box when cooking. Chestnut flour has become a huge favorite. It’s wonderful as a coating for baked chicken.

  • LabsRawesome

    Still waiting.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I know I said I was off this merry go round discussion, but I will amend that statement to include one final comment, as I didn’t address the “breakfast scenario”.

    I wouldn’t choose either breakfast. If you want a valid comparison to feeding Beneful vs feeding a more natural diet, I consider this to be a valid comparison:

    Breakfast A: A Coke or Pepsi followed by a vitamin pill.

    Breakfast B: A smoothie made with a variety of fresh fruits and vegetables including spinach or kale and yogurt.

    Which one is the better nutrition? Darn, I already know your answer.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Don’t feed the RC troll. πŸ˜‰

  • Crazy4dogs

    I wouldn’t pick either breakfast. We eat greek yogurt, whole grain muffins, poached eggs & avocado. πŸ˜‰

  • Shawna

    I have to agree that the first breakfast is healthier than the second breakfast but where we differ is that I don’t consider either breakfast actually healthy – not if fed every meal for life.

  • Lanie Malvit

    Royal canin is the only food that is triple tested before they ship it to stores, They test their ingredients before they even create the formula, they test the food AFTER development, and they test each batch to ensure it goes up to their highest standards.

    And unlike other brands, Royal canin has vets test their foods, not uneducated employees with no experience. also, unlike other brands, royal canin’s chicken byproduct meal only contains chicken heads, organs, hearts, and carcasses. And contains no bones, feathers, un-developed eggs, etc. And thats one of the many things they test for when the chicken byproduct meal arrives at the factory

    Royal canin is the only dog food that is developed, tested, and approved by vets and they have developed over 150 different dog formulas so that there is always a formula fit for any dog.

    whether their overweight, underweight, diabetic, have urinary issues, have a grain allergy, 3 weeks old, 20 years old, and many other conditions.

  • Lanie Malvit

    Everyone needs to stop feeding this junk and start feeding the highest quality dog food on earth, Royal canin!!

  • aimee

    Hi bojangles,

    Table sugar is sucrose. Sucrose can come in a bag or in a banana or in whole wheat bread or in Beneful or in fruit or in fruit juice or in maple syrup etc etc.

    Their is no difference in the nutritional value of the sucrose no matter what “container” it comes in.

    The difference among them is what else comes in the “container”. Of the above “containers” I consider the bag, the fruit juice, and the syrup to be poor dietary choices compared to whole wheat bread, Beneful or the banana.

    Though the sucrose in the fruit juice and the maple syrup are natural sources vs the refined sugar in the bag I view them equally as none of those containers have much else in them besides sugar. In small amounts, they all can be responsibly incorporated into a
    healthful diet.

    Look at the diet from a holistic point of view.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I did answer the question. Read or reread, whichever is applicable, my previous reply, including the quote from a human nutritionist “Comparing the Nutrition.”

    You say “I look at the food as a whole.” I find that difficult to believe as you would not continue this comparison. You don’t even seem to read a link or an article as a whole, but choose bits and pieces.

    As far as this discussion, I’m done. We will have to agree to disagree. I just don’t have the time to continue this, so I’m getting off this merry go round. πŸ˜‰

  • aimee

    Hi Crazy4dogs,

    You didn’t answer the question.

    You said “refined (table) sugar” and “natural sugar” “are not nutritionallly(sic) equal”

    I asked: What is nutritionally different between “refined (table) sugar” and “natural sugar”?

    I think you didn’t answer because you don’t want to admit that they are the same.

    What I see the article as saying is don’t take your sugar “straight up”. The sugar you consume should be incorporated into foods that provide nutrients. Additionally, be mindful of the nutrient/sugar ratio. Even so a small amount of sugar straight up is Ok and can be part of a healthful diet.

    I think I made it quite clear that I take a holistic view and look at the whole diet or whole food.

    “I look at the food as a whole. The whole wheat roll I make has fiber and protein and vitamins in it and some sucrose. An apple has vitamins and fiber a bit of protein and some sucrose.”

    With Beneful there was sugar in the recipe but look at the food as a whole instead of separating out one component. The dog cannot eat the sugar straight up. it comes with a lot of nutrients.

    Which is the better breakfast for my child? A breakfast consisting of a pancake from a recipe that contained a small amount of refined sugar served with a sprinkle of cinnamon and a 6 ounce glass of milk or a breakfast pancake made without any refined sugar and served with a tablespoon of natural maple syrup and 6 ounces of apple juice.

    I’d say the first breakfast, using refined sugar is more healthful than the second breakfast without refined sugar. Do you agree of disagree?

  • Shawna

    This is a new way of thinking for many but it truly is more about how your body uses the calories from the food you eat then the actual amount of calories eaten….

  • Cannoli

    You can’t stop because like me it creates an addiction. Foods that are simple carbohydrates triggers your mind to eat more. There have been numerous brain studies on morbidly obese patients that when fed simple carbs while being brain scanned the image shows an extremely high abnormal brain activity. Same activity you see in alcoholics and drug addicts. They need more and more of the food because it gives them a ” high”

    Hence moderation diets do not work on people like me. Sadly elimination of these types of foods is the way to go but it’s a very difficult thing to do because life happens. Simple carbs are everywhere in our life. In our office, at our friends house, etc

  • Amateria

    Well I’m not on meds since my condition doesn’t require any and I’m apparently underweight so I don’t have much to worry about in that department either.

    I meant it more that it will cause me allergy like symptoms to foods high in certain things.

  • Cannoli

    same here. I was close to being a diabetic years ago. Refined sugar and processed flour along with a high salt diet nearly destroyed my body.

    My doctor who knew nothing about nutrition gave me meds. I took it upon myself to educate myself about nutrition. Now I am medication free.

    Don’t get me wrong I still have my sugar and flour treats here and there but I don’t eat those types of foods on a daily basis. Neither should dogs

  • theBCnut

    My brother is an unstable diabetic and went to a zero carb diet(well, as close as he can get considering how sugars are added into just about everything). He got completely off all his medications, including his high blood pressure and cholesterol meds and lost 70 lbs in less than 3 months. This was while shooting for eating
    3000 kcals a day.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Again, you are taking the link I included in my post and only including the portion that fits your position as opposed to what the article is actually stating. I said earlier that refined sugar vs natural sugar are processed by the body the same way. The article, which was written by a Registered Dietician Nutritionist, also includes this:

    “Comparing the Nutrition
    While the body treats the sugar in fruit the same way it treats table sugar, there are significant differences in the nutritional composition of both foods as a whole. Table sugar is a source of empty calories, while fruit provides a variety of health-promoting nutrients including fiber, vitamins A and C and potassium. One teaspoon of sugar contains 16 calories, 4 grams of carbohydrates and no fiber, vitamins or minerals. By comparison, one medium orange contains 80 calories, 19 grams of carbs, 3 grams of fiber, 250 milligrams of potassium and 130 percent of the daily value for vitamin C.”

    There is no comparison. If you are looking at the food as a whole, refined sugar has no other attributes. None. Period.

    So, do you call your child to the table and feed her a bowl of sugar for a meal or a bowl of fruit?

  • bojangles

    Hi aimee,

    “What is nutritionally different between “refined (table) sugar” and “natural sugar”?

    The banana the “natural sugar” comes in.

    Most of your spiel revolves around misdirection, like when you compare table sugar to sucrose but forget that table sugar comes in a bag and sucrose comes in a banana.

    Or when you say “it’s not about the ingredients”, because if people were to judge Purina by it’s ingredients no one would feed it.

  • JellyCat

    True story, but I’d take that kind of sugar over refined simple carbs any day.
    Also, the benefits of eating fruits and vegetable for humans are significant even though they contain some simple carbs. The benefits of sugar in beneful are not there, so I cannot really compare these. There is also no benefits of consuming several food colourings at every meal and these are typically associated with highly processed and unhealthy foods for humans.

  • aimee

    LOL I guess I better use a different term!

    Though human waste has been reported as being a significant part of the natural diet of the dog I’ve never been one to embrace and feed such a natural diet : )

  • aimee

    You said “You are again trying to compare refined (table) sugar to natural sugar
    that occurs in fruits and vegetables. They are not nutritionallly(sic) equal”

    What is nutritionally different between “refined (table) sugar” and “natural sugar”?

    I see them as the same and
    your own link supports that.: “Whether it’s the sugar you put in your coffee or the sugar in your banana, your body processes it same way”

    I look at the food as a whole. The whole wheat roll I make has fiber and protein and vitamins in it and some sucrose. An apple has vitamins and fiber a bit of protein and some sucrose.

    I don’t have problem with having my child eat either as part of her diet.

  • aimee


    I’m right there with you as I don’t eat bread three times a day either. But I do eat vegetables and fruits and like the bread they do have a “small amount of sugar”

  • Amateria

    But eating that much bread a day is fun hehe

    Just watch though, I’ll probably need to change to a simple diet soon as eating that much bread has always caused a flare in my insulin resistance even if it took a few months to appear.
    It is so very hard to stop and people usually can’t stop until something bad happens, I’m apparently said person…

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi aimee,

    You might want to use a different term for what you feed your dogs, unless it’s accurate. Human waste is generally defined as excrement or feces. That’s what I’ve always considered the term to mean. Apparently, so does the rest of the world:

  • Crazy4dogs

    I actually was ROTFLMAO, but I still felt guilty. I’m trying to keep this discussion above board.

  • LabsRawesome

    Don’t feel bad it’s true. πŸ™‚

  • Crazy4dogs

    I did, and I laughed, but I felt guilty.

  • JellyCat

    Really? Even that “small amount of sugar” is not being consumed by me and my kids at every meal. There is no way I’d want to eat bread three times a day.

  • LabsRawesome

    Check out my meme. lol

  • Crazy4dogs

    Aimee, You are again trying to compare refined (table) sugar to natural sugar that occurs in fruits and vegetables. They are not nutritionallly equal, no matter what kind of spin you try to put on it.

    I had Great Grandfather that lived to 108, on a rural farm. My grandparents didn’t eat a lot of refined sugar on a regular basis. Your grandparents vs my grandparents is not a valid argument.

    I’m truly astonished at how desperate you are to try to prove that Beneful and Dog Chow are good choices to feed a dog. It’s almost getting comical.

  • aimee

    Apparently i would . after thinkng a bit about it she probably ingests some sucrose aka table sugar at every meal.

    So many fruits and vegetables contain sucrose and great grandma’ss recipes that i use for making rolls and pancakes use small amounts of sugar. I add a bit to the pizza crust dough. After I mix the yeast with water I add a touch of sugar to “get them going” a hold over tip from a microbiologist whose kids I watched when I was young. I know the preserves I put up have sucrose in them….

    I better stop feeding her foods Great Grandma ate.. she died at 104.

    Everything in moderation….

  • aimee

    Nice dramatic effect… next time though go for accuracy instead of drama : )

  • LabsRawesome

    Pretty much.

  • bojangles

    Hi aimee,

    I say “Have you also noticed that Purina figured out an ingenious way of using all the waste from their human food facilities”, and you tell a story about an overripe banana.

    Now that’s funny πŸ™‚

    Think more along the lines of:

    – Rat poop
    – Rotten and rotting, meats
    – Floor sweepings
    – Food scraped from the machines when they are cleaned
    – Foods that contain mold, mites, alflatoxins, mycotoxins, vomitoxins.
    – Heads, beaks, claws, feet.
    – Rancid oils
    – Cockroaches
    – Feces

    Now Purina’s Veterinary and PhD nutritionists use all that research and science to turn that “waste” into Dog Food!

  • Shawna

    You answer my question first. Would you feed your child table sugar at every meal?

  • Shawna

    I read it differently than you
    “The limitations of cross-sectional studies, the lack of controlled feeding trials, and the importance of genetic variation in response explain the absence of conclusive evidence. The lessons learned from animal models point to dietary fat as one potentially important component in the etiology of human obesity.”

    Yet we know that humans, even with diabetes, put on high fat diets not only lose weight but also have improvements with their diabetes. Of course, the fat has to be appropriate fats. This paper doesn’t state whether these animals were fed olive oil or corn oil. Only certain fats are allowed on the “high fat diet”.

  • aimee

    Do your grand kids ever consume any simple sugars?
    I’d evaluate diet as a whole vs vilifying a component.

  • Shawna

    No, you do not understand my position. I feel the overall carb content is important but I also think that complex carbohydrates should make up the majority of that lower amount. I see no place for table sugar in the canine diet – especially a diet that is fed at every meal, every day for life.

  • Shawna

    I don’t think anyone is actually freaking out?

    I personally wouldn’t feed, even small amounts, of granulated table sugar to my grand kids at every meal. Would you feed your daughter this way?

  • aimee

    I don’t think there is any reason for someone to seek out and only buy products that have sugar as an ingredient. but I also don’t see any reason to “freak out” over it’s presence.

  • aimee

    i don’t disagree that many of the ingredients that goes into the making of any dog food is by product from human food processing.

    Ethically I think this is the right thing to do., especially when considering animal based products.

    I admit to feeding my dog “human waste” nearly every day. For example today I noted that my bananas were getting overripe. I’m fickle and don’t like to eat them in that state so.. I can either throw them into the garbage… waste,or re-purpose them.

    The overripe bananna is now stuffed into a kong and is in the freezer.

    Similar story with the chicken breast that hubby overcooked and was quite dry. I know I’m not going to eat that.. i could either throw it away .. human waste or i could feed it to my dogs.

    Human “waste” can be very nutritious.

  • bojangles
  • Crazy4dogs

    Very interesting Bojangles. Do you have a link to that information?

  • Crazy4dogs

    I want to think Purina is finally doing the right thing. However, I would be leery of glycerin being used in the formula. Unless it specifically names vegetable glycerin, it could be no better than propylene glycol. πŸ™

  • aimee

    I wouldn’t say it is my opinion so much as it is the only conclusion I can make based on the literature pertaining to cause of Diabetes in dogs.

    Of the major macro-nutrients, protein fat and carb, it has only been fat which has been “tapped” as having a potential in the pathogenesis of DM based on its role in pancreatitis.

  • LabsRawesome

    That’s no surprise to me. Beneful is toxic waste.
    Glad to here you switched to actual food.
    I hope your pup is feeling better.

  • bojangles

    “The low carb fad certainly hasn’t helped the “diabesity” problem either”

    I don’t know about the obesity part of your statement, but is it your opinion that the overall carb content of a dog’s diet and canine diabetes have no correlation?

  • bojangles

    HI Pitlove,

    “I believe he (your store’s new Purina rep) did say that the revamping of Beneful was due to the large outcry of consumers who were upset about the inclusion of propylene glycol, sugar etc”

    That’s great!

    Did you happen to ask, or did he happen to say why “propylene glycol, sugar etc” were in their foods in the first place?

    And did you know that the propylene glycol that Purina is now removing, is said in the class action lawsuit to have been industrial grade, NOT food grade, and that the lawsuit claims there were other toxic substances like lead, arsenic and mycotoxins in Beneful?

    “Purina failed to disclose that the brand contains substances toxic to animals β€” including Industrial Grade Glycols (IGG), lead, arsenic and mycotoxins.”

    What was discussed in the conversation that you two had about the lawsuit against Bedneful?

  • aimee

    If I’m understanding your position then, it is unlike the OP, in that you have no objection to the sugar per say that was in this diet or the sugar content of any diet as long as the over all carbohydrate content of the diet falls within your preferred level? Is that right?

    When it comes to carbs do you prefer simple sugars over starches?

    “I don’t think it’s any huge secret that I advocate for lower carb (starch) diets to begin with”.

    This would seem to fit with canid diets in the wild that seasonally may consume a lot of fruit and therefore more simple sugars than starches.

    I think the glycerin in the new formula is replacing the propylene glycol and sugar in the old formula as a humectant and preservative to keep the moist bits moist. The wellness core air dried that I use has training rewards contains the same thing.

    I got a free sample of the Evengers Hi- Bio. Initially the pieces were just as moist as the Wellness product but then they quickly dried upon air exposure. The Hi Bio doesn’t have glycerin.

    I have a weird quirk in that I don’t like squishy pieces as a main diet but i do like the Wellness Core squishy pieces for training reward.

    I think the reason replacing fat with sugar, the low fat fad, didn’t get “us” anyplace is because the food still tasted good and people still consumed calories in excess of need. The low carb fad certainly hasn’t helped the “diabesity” problem either.

    I do think there very well could be differences between people and dogs.

    “It is evident from animal experiments
    that the percentage of energy derived from fat in
    the diet is positively correlated with body fat content. With few
    obesity is induced by high-fat diets in monkeys,
    dogs, pigs, hamsters, squirrels, rats, and mice. The mechanisms
    for this correlation between body fat and dietary
    fat content are not clear……In contrast with the animal studies, studies in humans that have examined the relation between dietary fat content
    and body fat are inconclusive.”

    The authors go to to say why a correlation may not have yet been found but it may be that we are different from other animals.

  • Cannoli

    Good for Purina for trying. They keep improving their ingredients and one day I’ll give them a try

  • theBCnut

    That’s what they used to think about humans. Now we have a diabetes epidemic and a few other little nasty health problems.

  • Pitlove

    Our new Purina rep and I discussed the new Beneful formulas not too long ago. We talked about the Beneful lawsuits etc. I believe he did say that the revamping of Beneful was due to the large outcry of consumers who were upset about the inclusion of propylene glycol, sugar etc. I was told the proylene glycol would be removed as well and I did notice at Walmart when I checked out the ingredient list for what looked like a new Beneful formula there wasn’t any.

  • LabsRawesome

    The problem with all of us is, we are not intelligent enough to understand her superior intellect. πŸ™‚

  • LabsRawesome

    No I didn’t. But if it makes you feel superior, then go ahead and think that. Actually, you missed my point.
    There are so many good foods to choose from, why you continuously defend/recommend Beneful, and call it a valid choice, is questionable.

  • Shawna

    I don’t think it’s any huge secret that I advocate lower carb (starch) diets to begin with.

  • Storm’s Mom

    So, if all nutrient needs are met from other ingredients, it’s ok to then just load something up with sugar for the heck of it?!

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi aimee,

    Maybe I’m misunderstanding this, but in the earlier post to JellyCat, it seemed that you said that the sugar didn’t meet her feeding philosophy? Do you think refined sugar in dog food should fit any owner’s feeding philosophy?

    I realize the whole discussion is a bit of a moot point since it appears Purina is no longer including sugar in the new formulas. Perhaps Purina realizes that improvements in the formula are needed to reduce the risk of lost sales.

  • aimee

    You missed the point.. that’s Ok

  • LabsRawesome

    Water has no nutritional value. Neither does sugar.
    The difference is a dog will die without one, and be healthier without the other. For someone that is so “scientific” and “intelligent” that should be obvious.

  • aimee

    I didn’t interpret what you said as meaning ” a food that contains a “small amount of something of “no nutritional value” automatically makes a food “terrible”. But I think that was the position of the OP.

    Is your position then that removing the sugar from a food that has apples bananas and sweet potatoes as ingredients would make it a better food?

  • bojangles

    Have you also noticed that Purina figured out an ingenious way of using all the waste from their human food facilities while fooling consumers into thinking it’s healthy?

    They call it dog food.

  • aimee

    Hi Crazy4dogs,

    I’m not trying to ” to prove that refined sugar is a “good” ingredient”

    I’m saying that as long as nutrient needs are met that it is Ok if some components consumed don’t have “nutritional value.”

  • Crazy4cats

    Haha! I haven’t visited the dogfood project site since I was first obsessed with trying to figure out how to feed my dogs properly! I like the live strong site as well due to me learning how to eat better to lower my triglycerides. Apparently I need to consume less sugar, less saturated fat and exercise more. Why oh why does it always come back to that? Anyway, I am shocked at how much sugar is in so many foods. Like I mentioned to Aimee, I think it would be very helpful to see how much sugar is in dog food as well. Thanks for the links.

  • mahoraner

    You’ve made a good point. And it is true, you usually feed less on the higher quality ones.
    So actually, If sport mix wholesomes is CHEAPER than beneful when divided by pounds, imagine how much cheaper it is when divided by meals?
    Sorry if i wrote that badly.

  • aimee

    I don’t recall ever seeing maize on a US label and searching DFA for maize didn’t yield any hits.

    I did see zea mays on a label though.but i think it was listed as a botanical and it was the silk and not the kernel that was in the diet

  • LabsRawesome

    I can’t even take this post seriously.

  • Crazy4dogs

    They probably learned that from the big 5 when they started calling corn “maize”. πŸ˜‰

  • LabsRawesome

    This is the dumbest post I’ve ever read.

  • Shawna

    Oh no, I’m not in the least little bit suggesting that a food that contains a “small amount of something of “no nutritional value” automatically makes a food “terrible”. I think my exact words were the exclusion would make it a “better food”.

    You’re grasping at straws with the water statement.

    It’s very difficult to even try to take you seriously when you attempt to defend sugar.

  • theBCnut

    You won’t be sorry.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi aimee,

    Sorry, but I think you should use a different example to try to prove that refined sugar is a “good ingredient” (SMH).

    Water is a basic requirement for any living organism. To compare sugar to water seems an invalid argument as water is necessary to sustain life and processed sugar is not.

    I don’t think you can validly compare processed sugar to natural sugar found in a whole food either since, while the sugar is processed by the body in basically the same way, there are other nutritional elements to the whole food that provide nutrition to the body.

  • aimee

    I don’t think we’ll ever see that… AAFCO can’t even decide how/if to list total carbohydrate content.

    I did notice a new way of listing sugar.. this was on a product at the dog boutique store
    “evaporated cane juice”

  • Crazy4cats

    You know, it’s too bad that the amount of sugar in dog food is not on the guaranteed analysis label like on human food. I think that would be great information to have when picking out a food!

  • mahoraner

    one thing i have to say about your comment “I myself consume a lot of water everyday. Water has no nutritional value You seem to be saying that I should be drinking fruit juice all day instead of water”

    first of all, dogs drink water too,
    and two, humans and dogs cant survive on just water, we and they both need a healthy diet to go along with the water

    just saying

  • aimee

    Hi Shawna,

    I didn’t miss that point about “this no nutritional value” but I disagree that simply because a diet contains a small amount of something of “no nutritional value” ( OP’s words) that that inclusion makes the overall diet a terrible diet.

    I myself consume a lot of water everyday. Water has no nutritional value You seem to be saying that I should be drinking fruit juice all day instead of water.

    I think the sugar is in the food to help keep the moist bits moist.

    If it is sugar itself that is vilified than diets with similar sugar levels from whole food ingredient should also be deemed “terrible”

  • aimee

    I promise to order a hot fudge banana shake for my first DQ shake taste test : )

  • Crazy4dogs

    Oh, for sure! I don’t do them often, but for crazy junk food DQ Blizzards are fun! πŸ˜‰

  • Crazy4cats

    Lol! I agree, but she was talking fast food. DQ seems to be known more for their desserts than food.

  • Shawna

    I didn’t understand the whole post but I think JellyCat made one point quite clear (you must have missed this?). “This has no nutritional value”

    Let’s look at the nutritional value of sugar as compared to sweet potato
    Sugar – no matter the quantity there is 0-fiber, 0-fatty acids and 0-amino acids. Although you would never need or use equal amounts of sugar to sweet potato for comparative purposes I am here. There is 28g of sugar in an ounce of granulated sugar. The nutrient balance completeness score is also 0 however there is a trace of a few minerals in there. Glycemic load is 19.

    Sweet potato – 1gm fiber, 1gm fat (mostly omega 6) and 1gm of protein. But of those nutrient supplied the nutrient completeness score is 65 and the protein quality score is 82. The glycemic load is 2.

    It’s quite clear to see which of these ingredients adds the most nutritional bang for the buck.

    You may say that sugar is added for energy (I think you have stated that before) however I would ask — isn’t the addition of the carbohydrate dense foods higher up in the ingredient list more than adequate to meet the dogs glucose/energy needs? Yes, yes they are.

    I personally do feel that the exclusion of sugar, unless replaced with an equally nutrient deficient ingredient/s, will make for a better food.

  • Shawna

    On this we can agree… I don’t hate the ingredients in Taste of the Wild foods but I won’t use them, regularly at least, due to company quality control issues and I do feel minimally processed foods offer more nutrition than brown food pellets.

    “I do not believe that you can rank one food as being better than another by looking at an ingredient list.”

    Not as the sole criteria but it’s a heck of a good place to start.

  • theBCnut

    OM! You have got to try hot fudge banana. Just sayin’.

  • Bobby dog

    Mmmmmmmm…Dairy Queen! πŸ˜‰