Zignature Dog Food (Dry)

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Rating: ★★★★☆

Zignature Dog Food earns the Advisor’s second-highest tier rating of 4 stars.

The Zignature product line includes three dry dog foods. Since we’re unable to locate AAFCO nutritional adequacy statements for these dog foods on the company’s website, it’s impossible for us to report specific life stage recommendations for these recipes.

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

  • Zignature Lamb Formula
  • Zignature Turkey Formula
  • Zignature Trout and Salmon Meal Formula

Zignature Turkey Formula was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Zignature Turkey Formula

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 34% | Fat = 20% | Carbs = 38%

Ingredients: Turkey, turkey meal, peas, pea flour, chickpeas, sunflower oil (preserved with citric acid), pea protein, flaxseed, natural flavors, dried beet pulp potassium chloride, calcium chloride, salt, choline chloride, minerals (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate), vitamins (vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), blueberries, carrots, cranberries, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, preserved with mixed tocopherols

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 7.2%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis31%18%NA
Dry Matter Basis34%20%38%
Calorie Weighted Basis29%40%31%

The first ingredient in this dog food lists turkey. Although it is a quality item, raw turkey contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The second ingredient is turkey meal. Turkey meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh turkey.

The third ingredient lists peas. Peas are a quality source of carbohydrates. Plus (like all legumes) they’re rich in natural fiber.

However, peas contain about 25% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The fourth ingredient is pea flour, a powder made from roasted yellow peas. Pea flour makes a slightly healthier substitute for wheat and can support more stable blood sugar levels.

The fifth ingredient is chickpeas, also known as garbanzo beans. Like peas, beans and lentils, the chickpea is a nutritious member of the fiber-rich legume (or pulse) family of vegetables.

Even though chickpeas contain about 22% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

The sixth ingredient is sunflower oil. Sunflower oil is nutritionally similar to safflower oil. Since these oils are high in omega-6 fatty acids and contain no omega-3′s, they’re considered less nutritious than canola or flaxseed oils.

Sunflower oil is notable for its resistance to heat damage during cooking.

There are several different types of sunflower oil, some better than others. Without knowing more, it’s impossible to judge the quality of this ingredient.

The seventh ingredient is pea protein, what remains of a pea after removing the starchy part of the vegetable.

Even though it contains over 80% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

And less costly plant-based products like peas, chickpeas and pea protein can all notably boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The eighth ingredient is flaxseed, one of the best plant sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Provided they’ve first been ground into a meal, flax seeds are also rich in soluble fiber.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With three notable exceptions

First, we find beet pulp. Beet pulp is a controversial ingredient, a high fiber by-product of sugar beet processing.

Some denounce beet pulp as an inexpensive filler while others cite its outstanding intestinal health and blood sugar benefits.

We only call your attention here to the controversy and believe the inclusion of beet pulp in reasonable amounts in most dog foods is entirely acceptable.

Next, we find no mention of probiotics, friendly bacteria applied to the surface of the kibble after processing to help with digestion.

And lastly, this food also contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Zignature Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Zignature Dog Food appears to be an above-average kibble.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 34%, a fat level of 20% and estimated carbohydrates of about 38%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 33% and a mean fat level of 27%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 32% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 83%.

Above-average protein. Above-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

When you consider the protein-boosting effects of the peas, chickpeas and pea protein, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a moderate amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Zignature is a plant-based kibble using a moderate amount of turkey, lamb and salmon meals as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 4 stars.

Highly recommended.

However, with 40% of the total calories in this food coming from fat as compared to just 29% from protein, this product may not be appropriate for every dog.

Special Alert

Rice ingredients can sometimes contain arsenic. Until the US FDA establishes safe upper levels for arsenic content, pet owners may wish to limit the total amount of rice fed in a dog's daily diet.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

08/05/2012 Original review
08/05/2012 Last Update

  • Shawna

    I’ve read excess fiber is counter indicated.

    Vet Dr. Karen Becker writes

    “When pets consume unnecessary fillers, like wads of fiber, it inhibits digestion and absorption of many vital nutrients. A small amount of fiber is very important, but a diet loaded with fiber is very detrimental, unless, of course, you’re feeding a horse or cow.

    If you’re feeding your dog or cat a balanced, species-appropriate diet with appropriate supplementation, including pet probiotics and digestive enzymes, and your pet is easily producing small, firm stools, she’s getting the exact amount of fiber she needs.” http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/11/19/dietary-fiber.aspx

  • Pattyvaughn

    I’ve read it , thanks. And I do like fiber in dog food, I just like less fiber than that unless my dog has a specific issue that requires more fiber. Many people who switch to Zignature specifically mention stool size increases, so I assume they are like me and prefer a bit less fiber. So my real question was “Why is your fiber content 6.5%”
    I’m not trying to be a pest, I like what I’m reading about your food. But I want to understand why the higher fiber amount. As far as feeding a diabetic dog dry food, I love that a good portion of the carbs are actually fiber. And for dogs that have difficulty maintaining weight, the fiber level may be a necessity. You see I’m not oblivious to some of the reasons, but I want to understand more. That’s the nice thing about DFA, you have an opportunity to educate a group of people that don’t just want to blindly buy dog food. They want to be educated. And if they like what you say, they will in turn recommend your food to people who are having problems that they believe your food will help with.
    It should be a great opportunity for you to get the word out.

  • henrybigh

    No we make sure that our food has a good amount of fiber for a huge assortment of reason.Please read Dr Sagman’s article on
    The Benefits of Dog Food Fiber on this site.
    Thank you

  • Pattyvaughn

    Why is your fiber content 6.5%? Don’t you consider that to be a little high?

  • henrybigh

    Sarah,
    Use the trout formula and be careful of the treats you feed your dog. Also make they get distilled water or RO water.

  • henrybigh

    The reason they go more often is the because our fiber content is 6.5 percent.

  • The Dogfather

    Thanks HDM, I’ll give both a try!

  • Pattyvaughn

    You might want to give some digestive enzymes for a couple weeks until his body is completely used to the new food. That will help with the “light and airy” issues.

  • Charlie_Driggs

    But I will say this: despite the increased volume of poop (sometimes 2 dumps per walk… a bit of an anomaly considering his history of pooping), at least it’s “light and airy”.

    Should I be worried???

  • Charlie_Driggs

    My dog’s stools have definitely increased in size and volume. But my dog seems happy with the food and the boutique I buy from stands by the product. My dog is 17 and after having a disastrous experience with Canine Caviar (which came after Wellness), I didn’t want to switch him out again.

    I was concerned that Orijen was too high in protein for my senior dog and the Now! Grain Free was a little hard to find. So by default, I’ve settled on the Zignature…

  • kenny

    In the process of opening a pet boutique and am using my dogs to critique foods I want to carry. As a pet owner who had fed my dogs highly nutritous food I was annoyed at the side effect of this food. My dogs poops have doubled in size! Possibly because of the heavy legume content? Live on 2 acres and do not like this “side effect” haven’t seen poops this big in years. Wondering if other pet owners have noticed this.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Try adding digestive enzymes to each meal – that will help with gas and may even help with stool volume as the enzymes will ensure the food is getting digested efficiently.

    As for the smell, the fats could have gone rancid. Make sure the bag is always closed and stored in a cool dark place – if you can fit it in the fridge that’s best. Also, don’t keep a bag of food around for longer than 3 weeks or so – the fats start degrading as soon as a bag is opened.

  • The Dogfather

    One more thing..I started with a couple smaller bags and even though I kept the food in the bag and inside a container, after a week the smell of the food changed, (not saying it went bad, just had a stronger odor). On the second bag I started rolling and clipping it (like a bag of chips), and continued to keep it inside a container and everything has been great since.

  • The Dogfather

    I switched my dog to this food a couple of weeks ago and so far so good, (knock on wood). She has a sensitive stomach, allergies, problems with most protein sources except for lamb, and has a problem with tomato pomace. The Zignature lamb formula meets the criteria and she seems to really like it. The only drawback that I’ve noticed so far is that she has had some gas and increased stool volume and frequency since the switch. However, the stool looks firm, and the gas may be due to her still adjusting to the new food. I know it’s too early to be sure, but hopefully she does well on it.

  • Sarah At Smelly Dog

    Zignature has been a great dog food for my terrier’s skin allergies, however he has developed super bad tear stains. He is four and never had tearing problems until now. So now I have to weigh the choices.

  • James

    I have two Frenchies that we have had trouble finding food that they both like and don’t have allergic reactions to. This is the first one we found that has fit the bill as of now. I am pleased with Zignature so far, and we have been giving them pro-biotic powder as well for longer than using this product. So that was not a deciding factor for us.

  • Angel Rose

    Hello! My name is Angel and I am here to say that Zignature is BY FAR the best dog food I have ever purchased for my three Chihuahuas. My oldest Chihuahua, Jasmine, has incredibly sensitive skin. So bad in fact that she had developed a horrible case of mange/yeast overgrowth on her rear end. Now when I say horrible, I mean it! We’re talking loss of fur, red skin, odd little bumps that felt almost like pimples. Refusing to put her on pet meds I founded Zignature and oh my lord this food is a serious miracle kibble! Within a week my dog stopped itching and after about a month the fur on her rear end grew back (not bald patches!) and her overall behavior is as if she were a puppy again. As for my other two Chihuahuas; one is finicky and he loves this food and my last one will eat anything. So there you have it. I urge everyone to try out this food at least once. You and your pet won’t regret it!

  • Chrissy

    We had them on Fromm Salmon Tunalini and that was not working at all – he has done well with Fromm’s game bird and this new Zignature’s brand – this Zignature’s is the best outcome so far – the game bird was the only Fromm he could eat…it is very odd, but now that this is working right now and seems to be working well I am not going to change a thing…just leave it where it is (o: Thank you so much for the information – I will have to check that out as well! <3 Chrissy

  • Pattyvaughn

    Having a fish sensitivity is like having a bird sensitvity. You may only have a problem with a particular kind of fish and be fine with others. Or it may be a processing thing, my dog has more trouble with chicken that is heavily processed than with chicken that is lightly or unprocessed. Or it could still be another ingredient all together. I’m glad you having good luck with this food.

  • Chrissy

    Thank you Patty! I appreciate the help! We rotational feed for all, except we have figured out that our oldest just does not do well with certain foods. Actually we were heading into the store to try Orijen and someone there stopped us – just asked random questions – I LOVE this store, so never annoyed by anyone who is in the store – it is a small family owned pet store and I trust the owner so much – she loves our little girl we adopted as she were her own and I know that she only carries food she would feed to her own (when TOTW had numerous recalls, she did not immediately pull this brand, but after so many happened, she then put out a notice she would no longer carry it, but would special order for people who still wanted it) – I just know she does all she can for the animals that come into her store. Anyway, sorry – I got off the topic, lol – I was approached and we were talking foods – they agreed Orijen would be a great food for the other 3, but asked if I had tried this brand and I had not – so he was really nice giving us a TON of samples, coupons to use and there was one bag left in fish based – so I went ahead and tried it – I thought it would take awhile for him to get use to it, but he seems to be doing so well on it (knock on wood) – no red ears after eating, less scratching, still licking – but like you said it will still take time for everything to calm down…so far I have been pleased with how well he is responding – if we have finally found a match I will not jinx this by rotating him – maybe see how he does on other proteins in their lines – but on the fish he is doing quite well (which I always thought fish was an allergen for him. We feed mostly fish based foods, because we have a little girl with severe orthopedic conditions – he was always flaring up when eating fishy foods – but perhaps it has always just been the brands – or other ingredients like potatoes). I will keep him on this line as long as he continues to do so well! We have always given them probiotics and enzymes. We do need to get a vitamin E supplement I believe – if they are on fish/salmon oil, I think they have to supplement with vitamin e? If so, I have trouble figuring out the correct dose of that for them. Thank you very much for your help! I really appreciate it! <3 Chrissy

  • Pattyvaughn

    Zignature seems like a good food, but the real test is how your dog does on it. I’ve got a dog with food intolerances like yours, and the only thing I’ve found that works consistantly is figuring out what they have problems with and avoiding it. A lot of dogs with intolerance issues have an unhealthy gut so giving a low carb, grain free food with added probiotics and digestive enzymes seems to really help. Good luck, BTW it takes a while of feeding the right diet for all symptoms to completely clear up, so stick with it.

  • Chrissy

    I have had some minor issues with posting on here, so not sure if anyone read my post regarding us being new to Zignatures – Just wondering how everyone else likes it – we have 4 pugs – we just started one pug on it who has extremely bad allergies. We have not found a food that works well – he always seems to have very inflamed ears after eating – scratches a lot – chews his feet – etc. Well, we have started him on this food and I have to say his ears have not been red at all. I am hoping this works for him – many others just do not seem to work. I just wanted some feed back about the quality of the food – I am not an expert and want to be feeding them all high nutrition – I see it gets 4 stars, so assuming it must be an alright food to feed? Thank you for any feedback! It is always greatly appreciated! <3 Chrissy

  • Chrissy

    Hello! Here I am again trying to find a new food to work well with my pugs. This one was recommended today as one all 4 may do well on – one with severe orthopedic conditions, one with severe allergies and skin conditions, one who has trouble putting weight on (looks rail thin – like we do not feed him, but he eats the most amount out of all daily – he is built very different and not overweight at all – we do not want him to be overweight – just not look so thin) and last she has anxiety and nervousness, nothing dietary going on – two were rescued out of horrific conditions. Currently, they all eat differently and that is fine if that is how it turns out – we would love to try and get them all on the same food if possible – we have tried raw food and so far have been unsuccessful – they just have not taken to it well and we have tried several times – with probiotics/enzymes, without them, various things, etc and nothing has helped move them over the hump of successfully eating raw daily or consistently. We are just wondering how this food works for some already feeding it? Thank you! Chrissy

  • TwoDeafBoxers

    I did call your company, twice in fact, and spoke to the same person who could not answer my questions but asked me to email him so he could forward it on to your manufacturing department. I emailed Richard and Daniel over a month ago and I still have not heard anything. Your company didn’t even answer all my questions posted on your Facebook page……

  • Pattyvaughn

    I can add Jim at Darwin’s to that list, but it is nice when a company cares enough to do this.

  • InkedMarie

    Glad you identified yourself! To answer your question, I’ve actually spoken to one of the owners of Brothers dog food and to Dr Tim of Dr Tim’s food. Nice to know you’re so available as well.

  • henrybigh

    We source our Salmon meal out of Alaska and it’s ethoxyquin free

  • henrybigh

    Hi I’m Henry

    One of the partners of Pets Global USA. Early on when the site was up we ran into some technical difficulties and I apologize. We take our Customer service serious so when folks say we don’t respond back it’s a problem for me. How many owners of food companies can you call direct?.We have a full time customer service person available between 9 to 5 PT. His name is Richard and his direct number is 818-809-7394.

    Thank you

  • InkedMarie

    You should probably identify who you are since you put your phone number out for all the old to see

  • henrybigh

    Lisa,
    We would be glad to answer all questions.
    Here’s my #813-313-9562

  • henrybigh

    Please call any time you want for any answers to any questions 813-313-9563

  • TwoDeafBoxers

    I tried it with my 3 year old and 1year old boxers, the oldest has huge allergies including chicken and rice/grains and also IBD and suprisingly he did well on it. It was my younger one who had issues as far as scratching, chewing feet, and upset stomach. I was no upset about returning it because the company still has not responded to my multiple emails and calls asking for more info on their sourcing and the parent company, Pets Global. I wasn’t comfortable staying on it so we stopped mixing it with our other food which they both do well on. Good luck, I know how hard it is with allergies and IBD!

  • Lisa

    Thanks Patty, I hope so. We’ve tried 5 different foods already. I will post after some time on it :-)

  • Pattyvaughn

    It’s pretty new, it may take a while for people to decide how their dog is doing on this food. I hope it turns out to be a good one. Please let us know how yours does on it.

  • Lisa

    I am not seeing much in this thread as far as how everyone’s dog tolerates Zignature. I would love to hear your experiences with this food. I just started my 9 month old lab who has IBD and
    allergies to chicken and rice on this foodLisa.(fish formula)

  • http://www.facebook.com/carolyn.lambert1 Carolyn Lambert

    I thought I like this food but since I started feeding it my one boy has lost weight and he poops a lot on this food at least 3 times more then when he was on tast of the wild. I think I am going to have to change him back.

  • TwoDeafBoxers

    Thank you! So taking in to consideration one of my dogs has IBD from prolonged allergy exposures, this may not be a good option forhim? Shoot!!

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I think Dr. Mike was just trying to point out that there may be too much fat for some dogs (like those prone to pancreatitis). It seems to me that most of the other brands that have fat around the same amount as this food (18%) also have more protein – so there isn’t such a difference in calories from fat vs. calories from protein. At least that’s what I’d assume it means. The amount of fat in the food personally wouldn’t bother me and I don’t think it’d be an issue most healthy dogs.

  • TwoDeafBoxers

    Can someone explain this to me?  Sorry if I seem slow but I can’t get this to process in my brain?!  

    “However, with 40% of the total calories in this food coming from fat as compared to just 29% from protein, this product may not be appropriate for every dog.”

  • Anthony

    Absolutely LOVE this food! I went from Blue Buffalo to Zignature Trout and have noticed a huge difference. Highly recommended!

  • doggonefedup

    aimee,
    your post just now showed up…..disqus……
    Thank you. I like to know what is working for everyones dogs. It always helps me decide what may or may not work for my boys or friend dogs.  The VSL3 sounds interesting for me to use myself.  Thank you again.

  • aimee

    Hi Doggonefedup,

    I have three dogs: a labrador, a sheltie mix and a Chinese Crested.

    Currently the Crested eats RC venison and potato. He had intermittent anorexia, intermittent vomiting and bloody stools until I started using this diet.

    The other dogs currently eat Iams… I won a years worth of dog food.

    In addition to the commerical diets they get a fair amount of fresh meats, veggies, fruit and some carbs too( pasta, rice, potato)  

    Previous kibbles I’ve used are Pro Plan, Evo, Cal Natural, and Wellness core. For “toppers” I’ve used Fresh pet, Pro Plan, Iams, Ziwi, Grandma Lucy, and Natural Balance.

    When the Crested was having Gi problems I had him on Proviable and Prostora ( probiotics) Now that he is improved I give them occassionlly to him.

    I think the microbiota of the Gi tract is influenced significantly by diet. I don’t think every dog needs to have supplemented probiotics but do think they can be situationally beneficial.

    To be of significant benefit I think they have to be given in large numbers and question if what is in foods are the right strains and in high enough levels to be of any benefit. I see them more as “window dressing” JMO

    Then of course is the whole problem of lack of regulation on probiotics, so who really knows if you are even getting viable bugs or what is on the label when you buy them as supplements.

    If I purchase again I may get VSL3, 450 billion bugs/dose. Lots of studies on this product BUT it is human product so I really don’t know for sure if those strains will benefit a dog. But I think I’ll go with a proven human product vs a unknown dog labeled one.

    I do like Prostora as it is a strain isolated from and “proven” in dogs, but it is pricey and only one strain. I went with Proviable because it has 5 billion bugs and made by a company which has a decent reputation in the supplement world.  

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I don’t see it anywhere on their website. I would just email the company and ask. Zignature has very good customer service. When I emailed them they responded the same day.

  • TheodoreLilly

    Does anybody know if Zignature or the suppliers for Zignature’s fish uses ethoxyquin?  Zignature, if you’re reading this… Please state on your bag if your food is entirely ethoxyquin-free.  Thanks for any reply!

  • Toxed2loss

    You’re very welcome!!! Thanks yourself for all the great new info I got from you today!

    XO!

  • Shawna

    Very interesting!!!  Thanks for the correction :)

  • Toxed2loss

    Great info! Here’s some stuff I should probably copy to the arsenic thread.

    Arsenic isn’t “normally” stored in fat. That’s a secondary defense mechanism for people who’s methylation cycle is impaired, their glutathione is deficient and they are immune compromised (like me.) So you won’t find research papers saying that, but you can find them pointing to it…here’s the facts from the ATSDR:

    After absorption through the lungs or GI tract, arsenic is widely distributed by the blood throughout the body. [ATSDR 2007] Most tissues rapidly clear arsenic, except for skin, hair, and nails [Lansdown 1995]. Two to four weeks after exposure ceases, most of the arsenic remaining in the body is found in keratin-rich tissues such as hair, nails, skin, and to a lesser extent, in bones and teeth [Yip and Dart 2001].

    Arsenic is absorbed into the blood stream at the cellular level and is taken up by red blood cells, white blood cells, and other cells that reduce arsenate to arsenite [Winski and Carter 1995; Wang et al. 1996]. Reduction of arsenate (As V) to arsenite (As III) is needed before methylation can occur. This reaction requires glutathione (GSH) [Miller et al. 2002; Vahter et al. 1983]. A portion of arsenite (As III) is methylated in the liver by enzymatic transfer of the methyl group from S adenosylmethionine (SAM) to methyl arsonate (MMA V) and dimethyl arsenate (DMA V) [Aposhian et al. 2004; Styblo et al. 2002]. The resulting metabolites are more readily excreted. Methylation has long been considered the main route of arsenic detoxification, but more recently there has been a growing body of literature supporting other detoxification mechanisms. For example, a number of animal species lack arsenic methylation and excrete inorganic arsenic [Vahter2002]. The implication is that there may be other more important arsenic detoxification mechanisms in mammals. Other studies have suggested additional detoxification mechanisms such as antioxidant defenses, resistance to apoptosis, or transport [Yoshida et al. 2004].

    Methylation efficiency in humans appears to decrease at high arsenic doses… When the methylating capacity of the liver is exceeded, exposure to excess levels of inorganic arsenic results in increased retention of arsenic in soft tissues. Arsenic is excreted in the urine primarily through the kidneys…

    Other less important routes of elimination of inorganic arsenic include feces, incorporation into hair and nails, skin desquamation, and sweat.

  • Toxed2loss

    Hi Doggone,
    Yes I do.

    I just posted on the Beneful thread, I currently have a 15 yr old Pom (5 lbs.) and a 2 (tomorrow) year old poodle (55 lbs). My Pom has been pesticide poisoned along with me. As a result she’s had 3 surgeries to remove tumors, and used to be up on all her shots. She wasn’t a very healthy little dog. She was plagued with all sorts of issues. She barely moved, had several neurosis, horrible teeth, and never played, just to name a few. When my immune system got over whelmed & I crashed into full blown chemical hypersensitivity I had to ramp up my studying toxins. The more I learned the more I removed, the better we got. So that meant holding off on all but the necessary vacs & meds. (We no longer give any, since I studied that issue.) And feeding a really good food. I actually added probiotics and enzymes in first. There was some improvement. When I looked at getting a service dog, I focused my studying on specific dog foods. I chose one of the 5 star grain/potato free foods. There was some more improvement. When I switched to Brother’s there was dramatic improvement in Sonia, my Pom.

    Rosie my poodle, got Vaccinosis shortly after we got her, from the distemper/parvo shot the breeders vet gave. She nearly died. I switched her off the 4 star food that he breeder had her on to a 5 star, and kept her on the probiotics. But here again, she’s made the best recovery on balanced raw, + Brother’s Complete. I truly believe its the encapsulate probiotics, and balanced nutrition. I still do give enzymes & probiotics with my raw food. I also give astaxanthin. Her ears are almost all cleared up. :-)

    So, giving the best possible nutrition, removing all toxins and supporting immune function are key in having healthy dogs (& people). I strongly believe that probiotics are essential in doing that, in today’s environments.

  • Shawna

    I had a brain fart :)

    I wrote “Most of the coprophagia products have probiotics in them.. And the “old wives tale” about using pineapple or meat tenderizer —- also because of the probiotics in them.”

    Although coprophagia products can have probiotics in them and they can be helpful, it is the proteolytic ENZYMES added to the products AND in meat tenderizer and pineapple that helps with coprophagia..  Oops..  Sorry I didn’t catch that before posting….

  • Shawna

    PS — with several of the “premixes” I have to process them after they have been rehydrated to break them down even further. 

    The cellulose fiber in vegetables can not be broken down by the body (human or canine) as we do not make the enzyme cellulase.  IF the veggies are not processed adequately (or cellulase is not supplemented) then they can come out just as they went in.  Processing further OR supplementing with an enzyme product that includes cellulase should resolve this issue…  :)

  • doggonefedup

    Toxed,
    So do you use/supplement with pre&probiotics? If I may ask, what dog foods do you recommend/use? and what breeds of dogs do you have? 
    I’m very curious what kinds of foods owners recommend or use as compared to the type/size/breeds they each have. I have GSD’s and freeze dried or dehydrated foods just don’t work for my dogs at all!

  • Shawna

    It’s my understanding that heavy metals don’t stay in the blood for long..  Toxins, like heavy metals, not eliminated are stored in fat cells..  High cholesterol can be an indicator of a toxic body as an example (see the video below — Certified Clinical Nutritionist Rahdia Gleis)..

    Are you asking me what foods I recommend?  If yes, that is easy — raw :) ..

    Okay, if not home preparing I like Darwins and Bravo meat only varieties mixed with HK Preference and other premixes in rotation.  For kibbles I recommend rotating between several 5 star, higher protein foods but Brothers is my fave of those foods.  I like Weruva Human Style the best for canned foods.

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=video+certified+clinical+nutritionist&mid=3C358A8F2ABCC79D17E73C358A8F2ABCC79D17E7&view=detail&FORM=VIRE1

  • doggonefedup

    So they can help rid the body of toxins like inorganic arsenic? provided of course they are healthy. good to know.
    I would still like to know what dog foods aimee uses. for that mater what foods would you recommend?

  • Shawna

    I get what you are saying but there are just as many bad bacteria out there being breathed in and picked up off the ground as there is good.. 

    Yes, the good guys can be repopulated (pending there is not a larger proportion of bad guys) by eating prebiotic foods.  BUT, prebiotics feed the bad guys too (most at least). 

    And NO, not all probiotics are killed off from a round of antibiotics.  The WHOLE purpose of taking a FULL round of antibiotics though (even after symptoms are gone) is to eliminate enough of the bacteria to not cause reinfection.  This also kills the good bacteria.  However, the yeast still remain.  If there is more candida and pathogenic yeast then there is good yeast then there is still problems.

    A wolf “regrows” (or actually maintains) a healthy gut population by eating fresh raw tripe and some of the stomach contents that stick with the tripe.  Ruminants have a HUGE number of bacteria in their guts which help them break down the cellulose in the grass they eat as well as digest it.  Herbivores, just like omnivores and carnivores do not ”make” their own cellulase. 

    They can eat feces from another “healthy” animal as well.  Most of the coprophagia products have probiotics in them..  And the “old wives tale” about using pineapple or meat tenderizer —- also because of the probiotics in them.  Certain populations of people used to eat feces to fight off certain illnesses too — like dysentery.  HOWEVER, for me and my dogs — I’d rather go with a supplement.  If you want to eat poop, I won’t stop you :-)

    Stress, by the way, can also damage good gut bacteria.

    Probiotics are even helping my girl with kidney disease.  When the good guys, if there are enough of them, eat on the prebiotics supplied they cause blood to rush to the colon.  Along with the blood comes BUN (and likely toxins etc).  This is called nitrogen trapping and allows for a portion of the nasties in the blood to be eliminated via the stool sparing the kidneys from the extra work load..  There are even veterinary prescribed products for this purpose.  I feel they are not as good quality as what I can supply myself though..

  • Toxed2loss

    Doggone,
    I have to side with Shawna. While dogs may pick up “some” small amount of probiotics from their natural environment, they are being inundated by vastly more toxins than they were designed to handle. Their systems can’t keep up with the lad. I think it’s absolutely necessary to supplement the beneficial bacteria. Besides research shows that the beneficial bacteria does far more, through out the entire body than previously thought. Supplementing with probiotics and feeding the guts colony with prebiotics ensures that there is a healthy enough colony to withstand the assault, and accomplish repair. :-)

  • doggonefedup

    okay that would explain worms, dermatitis, and those god awful doggy farts. poor nutrition does cause a lot of problems. And a healthy dog that is thriving seldom has any of those problems. But back to my original question. Is it necessary to add pre&probiotics to a dogs food? How important is it? can’t they just “regrow” them on their own? Are the gut bugs ever completely wiped out? And if they are how does a dog “regrow” them without purposely adding them to their food? again refering to those owners that have no idea?  

  • Shawna

    I guess I don’t understand your question?

    The dogs that “don’t get all that” have to be dewormed and have to be taken to the vet for giardia, get IBD and SIBO, candida, mange (neutrophils are one of the first on the scene with mange) etc…  Yet when these dogs aren’t actively exhibiting symptoms, they are considered “healthy”..  Ummmm nope, not so….

  • doggonefedup

    okay I understand all that but, like I said what about the dogs that don’t get all that? I’m thinking about those house puppies that eat nothing but ol’Roy or purina or an old shoe? the ones whose owner don’t know any better or even worse don’t care. My GSD’s hunt and bring their own food home sometimes. So I don’t worry about them so much.

  • Shawna

    “Seem” to be just fine is the opperative word..  Dogs on Ol Roy “seem” to be fine too…  We hear it here all the time.  Are they though???

    Probitoics actually help stimulate the immune system by “priming” neutrophil white blood cells.  Probiotics help prevent some of the damage caused by lectins.  Probiotics create lactic and butyric acids in the colon which help keep other bacteria in check and also help prevent colon cancer.  They create vitamins like K and the Bs etc. 

    Also, your GSD may bury bones but I assure you the closet my Chihuahua ever got to burying a bone is by stashing a chewy behind the couch cushion :) ..  Not one of mine chew on rocks (that can actually be a sign of malnutrition — it’s called Pica).  I’m not sure how licking pee off a fire hydrant would increase the beneficial bacteria population? 

    And, as stated — chlorinated tap water, medications etc etc kill the bacteria that is in the gut..  How many dogs get chlorinated water, dewormers and other drugs etc..  How many people spray their homes with disinfectants and such - killing not only bad but good bacteria that might otherwise be breathed in. 

    YOUR dogs may have ample opportunity to supply their bodies with naturally ocurring good bacteria/yeast but certainly we can’t assume that all dogs in every situation are in the prestine conditions your dogs must live in..

    When it comes to MY dogs — Yeah, they get supplemental sources of probiotics but I try to stick with natural as much as possible.  I feed/fed raw tripe, I ferment veggies for the dogs.  I give them ACV.  Four of them eat raw meaty bones off the ground off and on during the summer etc.  BUT, I do keep a bottle of high quality probitoics on hand and when my dogs get giardia or coccidia (from the foster dogs) I don’t have to take them to the vet.  They are symptom free withint two days.

  • doggonefedup

    well i don’t know. dogs eat poop from many other animals (and sometimes roll in it) they chew on rocks, they bury bones (with meat on them) and dig them up months later to chew on. i’ve even seen them licking fire hydrants that other dog have peed on. there are many places a dog can consume bacteria from. and like you say they can even breathe them in from airborne particles. So do we need to add them to our dogs food? I know dogs that have survived on crap dog food without any of that stuff purposely added to their foods and they seem to be just fine. granted a better food would be better for the dog ….but……

  • Shawna

    I don’t think that is true of dogs in most situations doggone..  Yes, soil based organisms can be picked up from the dirt.  And bacteria can be breathed in.  But wolves definitley get more supplemental probitoics then our dogs do — the tripe, drinking stream water, eating their entire meal off the ground, buring food etc. 

    Additionally wolves don’t drink tap water, take antibiotics and other meds, eat processed foods etc etc etc — all of which influence gut bacteria..

  • Shawna

    The same holds true for MOST yogurts but not all..  However, the technology is there..  Some manufacturers may use less stable (and likely cheaper) products but it doesn’t mean they all will..

    Micro Encapsulated probiotics are “barn condition” stable for up to 2 years..  I imagine they could survive being a bag of kibble for several months..  http://books.google.com/books?id=nIn8EIS2iE8C&pg=PA820&lpg=PA820&dq=encapsulated+probiotics+animal+feed&source=bl&ots=mUZPPJpJoH&sig=yyPGO6x9HKarqTs2A4GEco1HrZk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=d-yPUNHhD43W9QSR8IGYCg&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=encapsulated%20probiotics%20animal%20feed&f=false

  • doggonefedup

    aimee,
    Thank you. I was always under the impression that a dog could and did actually produce all the probiotics that they needed just by consuming bits of dirt and debris from the environment. Do you have any foods that you would consider/recommend ?  Also do you have any dogs? if I may ask. what breeds and what foods do you use?

  • aimee

    The following is the only study I’m aware of that evaluated dog foods with probiotics and compared the result to what was listed on the label. Nineteen foods were tested 5 were reported as “no relevant growth” (26%) and “No products contained all of the listed organisms, while 1 or more of the listed contents were isolated from 10 out of 19 products (53%). ” 
     
    “Overall, commercial pet foods that claim to contain probiotics appear to contain very low numbers of viable organisms, and often do not contain the species listed on the label.” 
     
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC340078/
     
    When probiotic supplements were tested “Only 2 of the 25 evaluated products were considered acceptable.”
     
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3003573/
     
     
     
       

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Diana –

    If the probiotics were added before or during processing then, yes, they would not be viable. However, dog food companies know this so they aren’t going to waste the money on adding them and then render them non-viable. The food is cooked, then extruded, dried, cooled, fat is sprayed on, vitamin/mineral premix in mixed with the kibble and sticks to the fat, THEN encapsulated probiotics and digestive enzymes are added to the food. Most high quality dog foods test their probiotic/enzyme activity and are found to have viable probiotics/enzymes. Some companies go to greater lengths than others to keep their probiotics and enzymes viable, but most high end brands will have acceptable levels of activity.

    Here is some information about probiotics in kibble from the Great Dane Lady:

    http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/viable_probiotics_in_dog_kibble.htm

  • Diana

    Why do you mention probiotic in these processed foods? The heat and processing of these foods would make any added probiotics non-viable.  Pet parents should always add a probiotic and digestive enzyme supplement as well as a FISH based oil to these dry foods.

  • ohnoesaz

    This dog food uses a ton of peas. The fish formula has four pea sources in the first dozen ingredients. It’s very possible your dog has, at the beginning, a slight intolerance to peas and this food has blown up that intolerance into an allergy.

    I see the same thing in my dogs. They rotate every meal between four different dog foods, all being potato free and grain free. All use peas.

    My recommendation is rotate foods between the three main starches: Tapioca, Potatoes, and Peas.

    Yes, I REALLY hate potatoes in dog foods, but I think its more important to keep a good rotation going so the dog’s body does not develop allergies.

  • Dog mom of 6

    We have been using Zignature Salmon for 2 months, after TOFW went to recall.  Have started noticing our dogs biting their feet.  This happened when we tried a chicken grain free dog food about 5 months ago.  Any one else notice this?

  • melissa

     Donna-

    Doesn’t count : ) It does not state WHICH guideline it meets-either maintenance or growth/reproduction

  • Diana

     I’m missing something… Does AAFCO mean much?  After all, the studies required to determine if a food meets the guidelines is a joke and a guy made a shoe out of those guidelines for goodness sake!

  • BryanV21

    When looking at this line of foods a couple of weeks ago, as we may start carrying it, I liked what I saw. Nice to see that the good doctor believes that too. 

  • Vancehartke

    On the physical bag itself, there is an AAFCO statement saying it’s approved for all life stages.