Farmina N&D Grain Free Dog Food (Dry)

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Rating: ★★★★★

Farmina N&D Grain Free Dog Food receives the Advisor’s top rating of 5 stars.

The Farmina N&D Grain Free product line lists six dry dog foods, each claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages.

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

  • Farmina N&D Grain Free Chicken Recipe
  • Farmina N&D Grain Free Grass Fed Lamb
  • Farmina N&D Grain Free Wild Boar Recipe
  • Farmina N&D Grain Free Wild Herring Recipe
  • Farmina N&D Grain Free Chicken Large Breed Puppy
  • Farmina N&D Grain Free Chicken Sm/Med Breed Puppy

Farmina N&D Grain Free Chicken Recipe was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Farmina N&D Grain Free Chicken Recipe

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 41% | Fat = 20% | Carbs = 31%

Ingredients: Deboned chicken, dehydrated chicken (source of glucosamine & chondroitin sulfate), potato, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dehydrated egg product, herring (source of glucosamine & chondroitin sulfate), dehydrated herring (source of glucosamine & chondroitin sulfate), herring & salmon oil blend (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried carrots, sun-cured alfalfa meal, chicory root extract, fructooligosaccharide, yeast extract (source of mannan-oligosaccharides), dehydrated pomegranate, dehydrated apple, dehydrated spinach, psyllium seed husk, dehydrated blackcurrant berry, dehydrated sweet orange, dehydrated blueberry, salt, brewers dried yeast, turmeric, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid, niacin, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, biotin, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, choline chloride, beta-carotene, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, dl-methionine, taurine, l-carnitine, aloe vera gel concentrate, green tea extract, rosemary extract

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 2.9%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis37%18%NA
Dry Matter Basis41%20%31%
Calorie Weighted Basis34%40%26%

The first ingredient in this dog food is chicken. Although it is a quality item, raw chicken contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The second ingredient is dehydrated chicken. Dehydrated chicken is considered a meat concentrate and contains more than four times as much protein as fresh chicken.

Plus (unlike chicken meal) dehydrated chicken is never exposed to high temperatures during processing… so it preserves more of the meat’s natural goodness.

The third ingredient is potato. Potatoes can be considered a gluten-free source of digestible carbohydrates. Yet with the exception of perhaps their caloric content, potatoes are of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The fourth ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is obtained from rendering chicken, a process similar to making soup in which the fat itself is skimmed from the surface of the liquid.

Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid, an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing, chicken fat is actually a quality ingredient.

The fifth ingredient is dried egg product, a dehydrated form of shell-free eggs. Quality can vary significantly. Lower grade egg product can even come from commercial hatcheries — from eggs that have failed to hatch.

In any case, eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

The sixth ingredient is herring. Herring is a fatty marine fish naturally high in protein as well as omega 3 fatty acids, essential oils needed by every dog to sustain life.

The seventh ingredient is dehydrated herring, another protein-rich ingredient.

The eighth ingredient is herring and salmon oil blend. Herring and salmon oils are naturally rich in the prized EPA and DHA type of omega-3 fatty acids. These two high quality fats boast the highest bio-availability to dogs and humans.

Depending on its level of freshness and purity, the herring and salmon oil blend should be considered a commendable addition.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With five notable exceptions

First, although alfalfa meal is high in plant protein (about 18%) and fiber (25%), this hay-family item is more commonly associated with horse feeds.

Next, this recipe contains fructooligosaccharide and a source of mannanoligosaccharide (also known as MOS), nutritional supplements likely included here as a prebiotic. Prebiotics function to support the growth of healthy bacteria in the pet’s intestinal tract.

In addition, this recipe also contains selenium yeast. Unlike the more common inorganic form of selenium (sodium selenite), this natural yeast supplement is considered a safer anti-cancer alternative.

Next, brewers yeast can be a controversial item. Although it’s a by-product of the beer making process, this ingredient is rich in minerals and other healthy nutrients.

Fans believe yeast repels fleas and supports the immune system.

Critics argue yeast ingredients can be linked to allergies. This may be true, but (like all allergies) only if your particular dog is allergic to the yeast itself.

In addition, a vocal minority insists yeast can increase the risk of developing the life-threatening condition known as bloat. However, this is a claim we’ve not been able to scientifically verify.

In any case, unless your dog is specifically allergic to it, yeast can still be considered a nutritious additive.

What’s more noteworthy here is that brewers yeast contains about 48% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

And lastly, this food also contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Farmina N&D Grain Free Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Farmina N&D Grain Free looks like an above-average dry dog food.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 41%, a fat level of 20% and estimated carbohydrates of about 31%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 43% and a mean fat level of 21%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 28% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 48%.

Above-average protein. Above-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

Even when you consider the protein-boosting effect of the alfalfa meal and brewers yeast, this looks like the profile of a dry product containing a significant amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Farmina N&D Grain Free is a meat-based dry dog food using a significant amount of named meats and fish as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 5 stars.

Enthusiastically recommended.

Special Alert

Rice ingredients can sometimes contain arsenic. Until the US FDA establishes safe upper levels for arsenic content, pet owners may wish to limit the total amount of rice fed in a dog's daily diet.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

10/17/2013 Original review
03/25/2014 Last Update

  • saya2

    Thanks I’m hoping to switch Bella to it soon still got good bit of current food so once it is half way I’ll order a bag. Glad your having no issue poop wise especially with a quick switch. .

    I got my herring samples and saya loves it. coarse she isn’t picky at all. she is raw fed so the kibble is just as treat.

  • theBCnut

    The only negative that I’ve read about green tea is that it can contain caffeine, which is a no no for dogs, but I would suspect that since it is so far down on the ingredient list, it would have an extremely small amount, if any.

  • saya2

    Thanks I plan to read up more on this later on. I’m hoping to try this food soon ingredients seem good and No peas, lentils and stuff like that.

  • Shawna

    I didn’t read the whole article but in the first few paragraphs the author is discussing how components of green tea are supposed to kill cancer and how can something that is safe kill cancer.?? He/she is missing a BIG part of the topic though.

    There are several foods and spices that actually don’t kill cancer but they help the body (or the cell) commit suicide. This is called apoptosis and it happens naturally. It MUST happen for the body to grow and stay healthy. Garlic, the spice turmeric, the enzyme bromelain (from pineapples) and other “foods” help the cells to die as they should.

    If apoptosis doesn’t happen those cells (that are carcinogenic) are allowed to grow and you now have a tumor. As the tumor grows it causes new blood vessels to form which “feed” the tumor. New blood vessel growth is called angiogenosis. However these newly grown blood vessels are not like the “normal” blood vessels in the body. They are weaker as an example. Some foods cause these weak blood vessels to die off. Once the blood vessel is dead, the tumor can no longer get food to itself and it starves to death. The die off of these blood vessels is called anti-angiogenosis.

    Foods that cause anti-angiogenosis are some foods like “green tea”, certain mushrooms, garlic/onion, strawberries, blackberries, pineapple and other completely healthy foods.

    Oncologist Dr. William Li has a TedTV video on the phenomena called “Can we eat to starve cancer”. https://www.ted.com/talks/william_li

    I also saw the word kidney damage in the article so read that section too. However here’s what another says “In 2011,a team of researchers reported that the green tea extract in Life Extension®’s green tea formula prevented kidney damage in lab animals given gentamicin,4 a commonly prescribed antibiotic notorious for its potential to induce profound damage to the kidneys, including end-stage renal failure” http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2011/jun2011_Proprietary-Green-Tea-Extract-Protects-the-Kidneys_01.htm

    I think I’d research this a bit more before getting too worried…

  • saya2

    I see this kibble has green tea extract. I like the ingredients on this food, but the green tea extract worries me some. Is this safe for dogs?
    This seems say it isn’t good.. I also see sites that says it is safe and others that it isn’t.
    http://scienceblogs.com/angrytoxicologist/2007/05/10/natural-does-not-equal-safe-gr/

    I was going to try this for parent’s boxer, but I plan to wait till I learn more about the green tea extract thing.

  • neezerfan

    So far so good here! The boys like it, digesting it well, no gas or goopy eyes.

  • http://www.spiritueelmagazine.nl Patty Snijders-Sonnenberg

    Was looking f

  • neezerfan

    The Farmina has arrived! I opened it and gave a few bites to the boys as treats. They love it!

  • Storm’s Mom

    or “not2crazy4cats” ;-)

  • Crazy4cats

    Very clever!

  • theBCnut

    This is the first time I’ve ever got the “Howdy,…” bar on this website at all. It’s a Google something feature in other places.

  • Freeholdhound

    … evidently I get around. LOL. :)

  • Julie

    Good question Betsy!!! I don’t get how I log on and post here as “Julie” and on the top of this page it’ll say “Howdy, BlackandBlue” and that’s my forum name?

  • Betsy Greer

    It just occurred to me that that’s really weird. That’s supposed to be completely different commenting software and you have separate user names and passwords. How could I have ended up with someone’s forum user name on the Discus side of the house. Hmm….

  • theBCnut

    You would be “Crazy2havaCat.” :-P

  • dchassett

    Wow! You’re set for a while. You must have a huge area and freezer to keep so much food. I don’t even have the space for an extra freezer. Most of my regular freezer is full of commercial dog food. No room for us humans.

  • dchassett

    Hey! No fair, I’m always just me. Once in a great while I’d like to be somebody else. You lucky posters you! LOL

  • Germansheppups

    And I’m me right now, lol.

  • Storm’s Mom

    I’ve been you a ton lately… the irony being I’m actually reeeeeeeally allergic to cats, and thus not terribly “crazy 4 cats” ;-)

  • Freeholdhound

    I saw the same thing in the Boar formula- grrr

  • Crazy4cats

    No, sorry, Labs, I haven’t been you. But, I have been Melissa and Betsy several times. LOL!

  • theBCnut

    And the Recent Comments column is acting up too. It’s showing the most recent post being an hour ago, but it was a post that was actually from 15 hours ago. Something really strange is going on here.

  • theBCnut

    I was Howdy, Germansheppup, but I clicked of it to see what profile it gave me and it switched to my own. However, when I got out of it I was back to being GSP again. Now, I’m nobody.

  • LabsRawesome

    Haha, So do I. I’ve seen Melissaandcrew, Bobbydog, Freeholdhound, and Neezerfan. Has anyone ever had LabsRawesome? I feel left out. lol.

  • Bobby dog

    Too funny, at this moment I have a “Howdy, Melissaandcrew” at the top of my screen :)

  • neezerfan

    Ha! I’m you now M&C! I’m having trouble again with dog food hoarding. I ordered the Farmina but had to add to the order to get free shipping. So I’ll have 3 cases of canned, a bag of Ziwipeak freeze dried, a bag of Instinct raw frozen, 2 freezer bags of homemade Preference mix and… my Darwin’s order will be here either today or tomorrow. Oh, and the Farmina. Having 2 dogs made me worse I think.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Last night I came here from a different computer. Not logged in. The top promptly greered me as “Howdy Bobbydog”

  • theBCnut

    I’m Germansheppups right now. This is like a virtual masquerade, only we get to see under the mask.

  • Bobby dog

    A few times I’ve been Melissaandcrew too.

  • Julie

    I was wondering when someone was going to be “BlackandBlue” (that’s my name on the forum side). By the way, I’ve been so many other people too. It’s like a game who’s going to show up “Howdy, -” each time I come to this site.

  • Freeholdhound

    Thank you. He’s a Florida boy- Derby Lane, Mardi Gras, Orange Park, & Daytona. Raced for a little over a year w/ 3 wins. Got him a month after retired. My XL area rug. :)

  • Betsy Greer

    I’m BlackandBlue today.

  • Betsy Greer

    It’s amazing how many foods contain fish or fish oil. He also reacts to foods with lots of fruits and veggies and doesn’t tolerate chickpeas or lentils. And believe it or not, he has a reluctance to raw. He doesn’t have a while lotta options.

  • Crazy4cats

    Poor Sammy :(

  • Betsy Greer

    Poor Sam doesn’t get any Farmina at all either, it all has fish or fish oil in it.

  • Bobby dog

    Your dog is adorable, what track did he race at?

  • Betsy Greer

    Dagnabbit! I have checked every day and today I finally placed an order from chewy today during lunch, only to get home and see they now have the Farmina in this evening and of course my order just shipped. Oh well, I did what any other dog food obsessed person would do…, I ordered more!

  • theBCnut

    Well drat!! The one I wanted to try was the Wild Boar and it’s got chicken in it. Rats! I can’t use Victor either, tomato. Boo!

  • Freeholdhound

    Well “hi” then lol

  • Bobby dog

    I’m always Freeholdhound

  • neezerfan

    Thanks for the info, I just ordered it! I was thiiiis close to ordering some Victor, sorry Victor, getcha next time! BTW, today I’m Bobby dog.

  • theBCnut

    WooHoo!!

  • Richard McGuire

    Farmina is now is stock at chewy.com.

  • sisu

    It may be another month before the food is available in the U.S.

    http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dry-canned-dog-food/24954-farmina-n-d-has-arrived.html

  • neezerfan

    Any news on this being available in the US?

  • Betsy Greer

    Yep, he has been. Smart dog. I’m just really disappointed to have to avoid fish oil as well as fish. In theory, the fish oil should be fine…, but it’s not for Sammy. That bums me out.

  • theBCnut

    I think I remember you saying that he has been turning his nose up at fish anyway, so he really won’t mind.

  • theBCnut

    In the past, when Disqus has done a big update, this has happened, and I have noticed that a few things that are definitely Disqus related have changed, so maybe that’s what the problem is with the 404s.

  • theBCnut

    LOL!! I’m sure you are right!

  • Pam c

    Hah that made my day :).

  • dchassett

    Thank goodness! I’ve been having the same problem for days also and couldn’t figure out what I was doing wrong. I can see in recent posts that people are posting but when I click on it I get ERROR 404. Help. These are the problems I’m having here on dogfoodadvisor on the coming soon site.

  • Betsy Greer

    I’m not going to tell him, so he’ll never know what he’s missing.

  • LabsRawesome

    Okay. I still think it’s operator error. LMAO.

  • theBCnut

    Poor Sam!

  • theBCnut

    We’ve been having internet issues for days now. Websites will load ridiculously slow or only load part way. I’m getting 404 errors left and right. I NEED better internet!!!!

  • Betsy Greer

    I was disappointed to find out that they don’t have any fish free foods for Sam.

  • LabsRawesome

    I think your just doing it wrong. Lol. My link works just fine. If you click on info you can leave a message, or scroll down to send an email.

  • theBCnut

    Thank you! The website I found earlier looked incomplete and nothing came up under the info tab. This worked great. I’m hoping that they will have something that will work for my food intolerance dog.

  • Angela Primanti

    “http://usa.farmina.com/”

    Look under “info” to send a message. I got samples via FB and the dogs and cats loved them.

  • theBCnut

    Thanks!

  • LabsRawesome
  • theBCnut

    Does anyone have the company email? I’m one of those backwards people that isn’t on facebook.

  • neezerfan

    Awesome news! Will do that right now!

  • Pam c

    I asked Chewy yesterday and they said 2-3 weeks. If you go to their live chat you can ask to be emailed when the products become available.

  • Duke The Boxer

    I was told the first week of March.

  • Dave’s Hounds

    It still isn’t available at Chewy

  • InkedMarie

    It’s all good. I think chicken may be causing eye weeping with my Brittany but she can eat it. I believe they’re sending me some fish anyway; they read a comment elsewhere about me mentioning no fish sent.

  • Duke The Boxer

    Try sending them a message. They sent me boar and chicken and I just asked for the fish sample and they sent it to me. They are pretty friendly and just tell them your dogs intolerance to it. You can also say you have multiple dogs

  • dchassett

    LOL! You’re not kidding, me either.

  • InkedMarie

    I can’t even imagine shipping from Italy!

  • Anthony

    Hello from North NJ. I have been using this food for a little over a year. Having a friend in the company’s office in Siena, Italy send me the food is a good thing. This line is on another level than what people normally use this country. I know, I have tried virtually every 4 or 5 star food and how something reads says nothing about the actual quality of the ingredients or how it is made, especially all co-packed foods that push all the right label buttons but are nothing more than marketing and commodity ingredients. This is an entirely different quality food, so feed less even less than the bags say. As frustrating as Italians can be (to me), when it comes to food they are all business. I am in the wine business by the way.

  • InkedMarie

    I wanted fish & boar; got chicken and boar.

  • Betsy Greer

    Me too, but they sent me fish; so Sam doesn’t get to try it.

  • Duke The Boxer

    USA

  • InkedMarie

    I got samples last week, too!

  • Pam c

    Ok cool. Which country do you live in?

  • Duke The Boxer

    I don’t believe the products that will be sold in the US are the same that this guy is talking about. I would honestly talk to their customer support as they are very happy to speak to anyone and reveal their sources for infeedients and other info.

  • Duke The Boxer

    If anyone wants to try this brand go on Facebook or email the company and ask for some free samples. Just tell them the type of dog you have and general preference and they will send you some no charge at all and the bags are quite large for samples. Duke actually really liked the boar sample they sent me. Gonna try the chicken next.

  • LP

    That’s why I love Orijen, even their “second line” food (Acana) got 5 stars :)) I understand the companies need money and that some people can’t buy expensive food/don’t know about them/don’t care but I still think it’s strange how most companies manage to have a completely different philosophy in each bag of dog food they sell.

  • Ross C.

    Oh and the best is Back to Basics. That is made by Dad’s Pet Care, probably worse than Ole Roy.

  • ross c.

    I think you read it wrong. He seems to being saying he doesn’t but sells other lines he thinks are 4 star foods. In any event, companies have different foods for different budgets and places. People in other parts of the world won’t spend so much money on dog food. Even here, Earthborn is made by Nunn Milling (Nunn-Better & Sportmix dog food), Nutrisource is made by Tuffy’s that makes some pretty below average feed store brands. Same for Precise and By Nature, all made by agricultural feed store mills that makes foods you probably wouldn’t use. I am a chicken & rice person myself and don’t like to spend so much but I may give the 30% foods a whirl. I like the looks of the chicken, fish, egg with farro and oats.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Apparently, they sell several different levels of quality. It was a low level brand that the first ingredient was cereal grain.

  • Betsy Greer

    According to the OP, the first ingredient in the Farmina products that he sells, which are manufactured in Italy, is a cereal grain.

  • Ross C.

    According to the Italian site, which would be the case for the US-bound foods, the first two meat ingredients are as high as 55% of the formula, and after the 3rd ingredient they have 3 – 5 other animal ingredients fresh and dehydrated. I saw they list the grain-free food as having a minimum of 95% protein from animal sources. I will try these and I usually don’t spend so much on food, presumably they aren’t cheap. The other line coming here is 92%.

  • Betsy Greer

    Dogs definitely aren’t meant to eat foods with grains as the first ingredient. Thanks for the heads up.

    Looks like I’ll steer clear of Farmina after all.

  • Dave’s Hounds

    did you mean LOL?

  • Cães Na Linha

    LOOOOOOOLLLL.
    Is this dog food advisor or catfood advisor???? that’s a cat food bag, not a dog food bag.
    If you want to criticize at least do it the right way…

  • Cães Na Linha

    The quality of the food in Brazil i honestly don´t know because the food i sell comes from the factory placed in Italy, and there are no by-products at all even in their lower brands as Vet Professional, what happens is that the first ingredient isn’t meat but cereals, and even the cereals are only the best. I don’t sell Fun dog which is the lowest quality in Farmina products. Cibau and team breeder are awesome, not rated because they are not sold yet in the U.S, but they do deserve at least 4 stars. That’s my personal appreciation after feeding my dogs with it for months. ATENTION: WORKING DOGS. Some do Mondioring and others obedience. I also feed my dogs in Hotel with Farmina and i can tell you that when they go back home 60% (at least) of the owners come back to me and say oh my god, my dog just doesn’t eat his Royal canin or Eukanuba or whatever. And another bag sold :)
    But i do know that some things written in the Brazillian site are crazy with terrible translation. In Portugal the bag always brings a correct translation sticker.
    One of my dogs(Malinois) works every day for hours, if it’s not for trainning (Obedience, and only with Tug and play trainning, not the clicker crap method) is for teaching other dogs the rules of play and sociabilization. Because he plays with others while teaching them the right way to do it.
    With Farmina he never breaks, he is always on fire, always wanting more, always happy, with the right weight and great faeces. The dog had a few alergy problems and they went away.
    You can check my dogs as well as the hotel and school in http://www.caesnalinha.com, or http://www.facebook.com/carlosfmigueis and see how great my dogs look, and how great they work.

  • LP

    They already did :) I hope they start selling the same formula in Brazil so they can use the logo again, everybody will win, specially the brazilian pets.

  • Zyekitty

    A photo of the ingredients list on the bag was just what I was hoping to find. That definitely shows what is actually in the food. Thanks for posting it. I think Mike said they are going to remove the Dog Food Advisor logo from their website.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Due to the process of making kibble, it is scientifically impossible to achieve meat protein content as high as this product unless the formulator includes a meat concentrate (like dehydrated meat or meat meal) in its recipe.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    The company was quick to respond to my request and has now removed the logo endorsement from its website.

  • TIKI

    I think companies should not get 5 stars that easily. Chicken meal for instance is very cheap, cheaper than most plant products. Yet companies using more chicken meal get more stars no matter how many recalls, no matter what the practices are.

  • LP

    Here is the brazilian label. As you can see the first ingredient is “farinha de VISCERAS de frango” (chicken by-product) and the two last are BHA and BHT. Hope it helps. :) I am not saying it’s a bad food, it’s stil one of the two best ones in Brazil. But it’s worse than the version sold in Europe and USA (with deboned chicken as first ingredient and natural preservatives) and it does not deserve the 5 stars the formula sold in the USA got.

  • LP

    It’s not a translation, it’s a different formula! And as far as I understood it’s already in the USA! The one imported from Europe, with real chicken meat and natural preservatives. It must be a good choice, much better than the brazilian version with BHA, BHT and chicken intestines.

  • LP

    No, the ingredients of the food sold in Brazil are not the same as the ones listed in this review (version sold in the USA). And if you change the language in the website you get the formula sold in the country you chose… So you still have to use Google Translator to see the ingredients of the brazilian version. I think the brazilian formula is the only one using BHA and BHT in the world. Actually it must be the only grain free in the world using BHA and BHT lol It also has chicken by product as first ingredient: “farinha de visceras de frango”. Farinha means meal, frango means chicken and I guess you know what “visceras” means since it’s the same in English (intestines etc). I think it’s considered a byproduct at least, I would prefer to see “deboned chicken” or “chicken meal”. Just to make it clear, there is no law saying that in Brazil a dog food has to use BHA and BHT. There is actually one called Guabi Natural that only uses natural preservatices – but it’s not grain free :( As far as I know in the brazilian market N&D is the only grain free and Guabi Natural is the only one with natural preservatives. It’s a hard choice!

  • LP

    If you translate the whole list at the same time, Google Translator ignores one word from the first ingredient, “viscera”. I guess you know what it means. Plus they use BHA and BHT instead of natural preservatives.

  • LP

    There is no law saying that in Brazil you have to use chicken byproducts instead of chicken and BHA / BHT instead of natural preservatives… There is already one dog food there with natural preservatives, but unfortunately it’s not grain free.

  • Zyekitty

    thanks, not sure how I missed the translate option right on the page..lol. I look forward to seeing it in the US.

  • InkedMarie

    Last I saw on fb, it’s the end of this month.

  • Dave’s Hounds

    When will your product be sold in the US?

  • Farmina USA

    I can
    answer these questions for you. The formulas for the USA are slightly modified
    versions of the European formulas due to differences between USA laws and
    European laws. For example, Marigold petals were removed, pea fiber was removed
    and Selenium Yeast replaced another form of organic selenium, etc. All proteins
    and fats are identical, the Guaranteed Analysis is identical and all foods for
    the USA are imported from Europe using the same ingredients as the foods sold
    in Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal, etc., with very minor exceptions to conform
    to US laws.

    Brazil
    is very unique, with its own plant, local laws, local customs and local
    ingredients. I realize that some ingredients used in Brazil are not to the
    liking of American consumers, but this is the way things are in Brazil but changing
    slowly. Not every country can be the same. Look at a bottle of Heinz Ketchup in
    Germany and the ingredients will be different. The world is a big place and
    there are differences all over. There are some things in Brazil that we have no
    control over, but we expect norms and customs to change soon.

    If you go to the website and choose “American English” you will see
    the American foods translated to American labelling laws. Some terms have
    changed. For example, we are not allowed to use the term “fresh boneless
    chicken” in the United States, so it was changed to “de-boned
    chicken.” That was one of the many labelling changes for the exact same
    ingredient. In our Ancestral Line, we use Italian Farro, but were forced to
    label it as Spelt, which is not the same as Farro but that is what is required
    in the USA.

    http://usa.farmina.com/

    Please
    use this website to review the ingredients. If you have any further questions,
    please email the website or come to the Farmina Natural & Delicious USA
    page on Facebook.

    I hope
    this clears this up and we again thank Dr. Sagman.

    Ciao,
    Farmina

  • Zyekitty

    I only called the website Brazilian because its for the food sold in Brazil. I know that Brazilian is not a language and that the website is in Portuguese. Also I do not speak Portuguese, like I said I just put the site in google translator so obviously there can be some errors.

    If you feed N&D could you let us know if the ingredients are the same as the ones listed in this review. That is what we are trying to find out.

  • Zyekitty

    I’m confused I looked up Farmina’s brazilian website http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.farmina.com/?q%3Dpt-br&prev=/search?q%3DFarmina%2Bbrasil%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DRr3%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Drcs%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D673 I put it into google translator and the N&D products don’t have chicken-by-product meal, but they are different formulas.

    Do the bags of food in brazil list different ingredients then on the brazilian site? Are the names of the foods/varieties the ones on this site or the ones on the site I found?

    Edit: you have to click on Canine Natural & Delicious to get to the N&D products.

  • Pattyvaughn

    They have no reason to tell Brazilians about ratings in the US on a product that is not available to Brazilians, except to make them think that the Brazilian product is the same and of equal quality.

  • InkedMarie

    Well, since I’m not in Brazil, they won’t be selling me any Brazilian product!

    I honestly think they’re advertising that the AMERICAN site of DFA as rated them a five star food, for the foods the DFA has reviewed, which are the ones soon to be available in the US, not Brazil. I guess I’m the only one who thought that and that’s okay too!

  • Pattyvaughn

    I can’t read all of it, but it looks to me like it says something along the lines of “Our dog food gets the highest rating on this American site.” No, it isn’t an outright lie, but it isn’t honest either, since they don’t say “However, we’re only selling you an inferior product.”

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Thank you for sharing this important information.

    Assuming this product does indeed use a different recipe, then the use of our logo to mislead or deceive consumers and prospects cannot be tolerated.

    I have written to the company as well as its agents here in the U.S. demanded they cease and desist from the unauthorized use of our logo to help sell their products abroad.

    Thanks again for sharing this with me.

  • InkedMarie

    I must be tired, still don’t quite get it. I see the word “Americano” above, so that would say to me that the Farmina ND is rated 5 stars on DFA in America. No? I don’t speak that language, does it say on their website that the Brazilian Farmina is five stars?

  • Pattyvaughn

    LP is saying that Farmina uses different ingredients in Brazil, but displays the rating for the American formulation. That is deceitful. Since most people in Brazil would not compare the label here, they are implying that it is the same food.

  • InkedMarie

    I’m not sure I understand what the big deal is. I may be wrong and Dr Mike can correct me but I believe he is using the ingredient list/GA/NA for the products that will be available in the US.

    If the brazilian ingredient list says the above, whats deceitful? If it contains chicken by product meal etc in it and it says so…..so what? If the bag says it contains the above and the ingredient lists don’t say that then yes, that is deceitful but I have no idea. I don’t live in Brazil, I don’t have a bag.

  • Pattyvaughn

    That’s pretty deceitful. Boo on them.

  • LP

    So bad, in Brazil Farmina uses chicken by-product meal, BHA and BHT. Still they use the 5 stars they got here to sell more cat and dog food in Brazil, even if it’s a completely different formula! Deceptive advertising!! They ignore everything DogFoodAdvisor says about BHA and BHT. http://www.farmina.com/misc/nd_digital_banner05_894x150px.jpg

  • Dejan

    FEDIAF (European Pet Food Industry Federation)
    Nutritional Guidelines for Complete and Complementary Pet Food for Cats and Dogs
    Publication July 2013

    Calcium
    Calcium (Adult dogs) As the calcium level approaches the stated nutritional maximum, it may be necessary to increase the levels of certain trace elements such as zinc and copper.

    Calcium (RA for puppies) A calcium level of 0.8g/100g DM has been shown to be adequate for growing dogs. However, this level has been reported to be marginal for some breeds particularly during the fast growing phase (particularly breeds with lower energy requirements).

    After comparing all the data, FEDIAF recommends that the calcium level in a pet food for early growth should be at least 1g/100g DM. During late growth, it is recommended that large breed and giant breed puppies continue to be fed a pet food containing at least 1 % of calcium until about 6 months of age. During the whole late growth phase, pet foods for puppies of small and medium size breeds may contain less calcium (minimum 0.8% DM) and the calcium-phosphorus ratio can be increased to 1.8/1.

    Calcium (Maximum for puppies) High intake of calcium has an adverse effect on skeletal development in large breed dogs, particularly during the early growth phase. Therefore a strict nutritional maximum is recommended for foods intended for large breed puppies.

    Weber et al. showed that when feeding a balanced food, a calcium level of 1.6 % DM from 9 weeks of age does not cause side effects.

    During later growth up to 1.8% DM can be fed to all breed dogs including giant breeds with the exception of great Danes. This breed may be more susceptible and it is preferable to continue with a food containing a maximum calcium content of 1.6%.

  • InkedMarie

    Head to our forums section, go to the dog food ingredients section and look at the top for the grain & white potato free stickie. That would be a good place to start.

  • aimee

    The Calcium level was raised BUT so was the energy density of the diet so overall the previous min was 2.8 grams/1000 and now it is 3 grams/1000. AAFCO is changing their min to meet the NRC recommended amount and limiting the maximum to the NRC safe upper limit.

    No where does it say it the AAFCO document that 3-4.5 grams/1000 kcals is optimum for large breed growth. There is a gap in the research such that we know 3 is safe and above 4.5 isn’t. Could it be that 4 is too high?? Possibly. (The European standards limit Ca to 4 grams/1000 kcals.) Because it is known 3 is safe and there is no advantage to going higher some nutritionists recommend 3 grams/1000 and some will place their safe upper limit at 3.5 grams/1000 kcals.

    The AAFCO committee initial recommendation was to allow for a lower the Ca requirements for large breed. “The CNES recommended that the calcium and phosphorus in growth formulas for the large-bred or large-size dogs be allowed to decrease to 0.9%” That was not accepted based on the work done by Laflamme who I believe works/worked for Purina. I believe Purina is the company known for investing a lot in studying optimum ca levels during growth for various breeds.

    AAFCO is recognizing that large breed need restricted Ca “Because of concerns for excess calcium to produce detrimental effects in growing dogs of large and giant breeds,10-13 the 2007 CNES deemed that additional restriction to the maximum limit for calcium was warranted”

    There has been no change in the recommendations for Ca levels for large breed growth.

  • http://www.petfinder.com/ zj

    The link you posted is for the proposed changes to the AAFCO 2014 Official Publication (thank you).

    The pages I posted are from the actual 2014 AAFCO Official Publication.

    It looks like the proposed changes were never implemented. Maybe because the dog food manufacturers did not want to reformulate their foods or something.

    The date on the proposal is 05-13-2013
    AAFCO_Nutrient_Profiles_051513_Final.pdf

    The date on the actual publication is 10-25-2013
    2014_Official Publication-BIN-ver102513.pdf

  • Betsy Greer

    Why did you have to pay to get the information from the Pet Food Institute? It’s available online at no cost.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Did you notice the calorie change in the assumed diet? This will affect actual calcium levels in an actual diet. And this is not implemented yet, so you can’t assume that any dog food you buy now is following these guidelines. BTW, some dog food companies want to fight this. They don’t want to have to reformulate.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Betsy, this document is unwieldy because you can’t scroll down in the usual fashion, but the info we want is on the bottom of pg 9 and the top of pg 10.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Thanks!

  • RowdyYates
  • http://enria.org/ Storm’s Mom

    I would suggest finding a chicken-free, potato-free, and grain-free food for her, with the least amount of carbs (highest amount of protein) that you can find. Orijen Six Fish and Horizon Legacy Fish immediately come to mind.. any of the Nature’s Variety Instinct ones that don’t have chicken would be a good choice, too (I think just the Chicken one has chicken, but not 100% sure). Nature’s Logic has millet, which is a pseudograin, so it would be another one you could try. Hope that helps!!

  • RowdyYates

    Betsy, Patty, Andrew and all, I have been trying to find out more about the latest changes as I have been studying and studying dog food and am about to get a large breed puppy this winter, taking us to 5 dogs ages 10 weeks to 15 years.
    It looks like AAFCO using the NRC recommendations raised minimum calcium to 1.20% and lowered maximum to 1.80% using large breed puppies as the base-line. It says on the AAFCO changes for 2014 that the optimal range for large breed puppies is 1.30% – 1.80% based on research, so that the prior belief that large breed puppies need overly restrictive calcium has changed.
    I have the link but I am not sure I can post it as I think my husband paid to get this information early. I need to find out if it is allowed first. Will post if not breaking any rules. Interesting discussion. Thanks for all the good information.

  • molly

    I have a toy poodle who has all the symtoms for yeast in dogs. She licks, bites, chews herself raw. Her ears are now stinking even though she is bathed weekly. We feed her Blue Buffalo chicken or lamb and she is getting worse. In researching the carb % is very high. She has always been a chronic paw licker but now its out of control. Help!! We need a dry dog food to help her.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Thanks for trying. We found that too, as well as her report that they gave the people representing GMOs 40 minutes to woo the masses at a meeting that they shouldn’t have even been at, so she asked for equal time at the next meeting, and doesn’t know if she will get it. When they finally legislate GMO labeling for human foods, they don’t want dog foods labeled. Of course.

  • losul

    Patty, Betsy, and all else concerned,

    I wasn’t aware they had even published for 2014 already and could not find much on it. I did find where for 2014, labeling requirements are to require kc/kg and kc/unit of food (cup,can, etc. with a grace period of 18 mos on new products and 3 years on existing. Of course most worthy manufacturers have already been supplying that info anyway. It’s really a must have, IMO.

    In addition it looks like there might be a requirement for listing carbohydrates in the guaranteed analysis in the future. Evidently they are still looking for a method to consistently test for carbs. This would be a very welcome addition, I’m sure we would all agree.

    I found this report from Susan Thixton on the August 2013 AAFCO meeting, which she apparently attended. Here are some tidbits per large breed growth;
    —————
    “During the Pet Food Committee meeting as well, there was a great deal of time spent on the soon to be published updated nutrient profiles for dog and cat foods. The issue was clarifying the calcium content for growth dog foods (for growing puppies), specifically large breed growth dog foods and how this information will be stated in the AAFCO Official Publication.”

    “Dr. Burkholder of FDA stated there is science that shows for large breed puppies (adult weight over 70 pounds), there are health risks associated with calcium content over 1.9%. Current calcium maximum levels for all growth pet foods is 2.5%. The discussion was not to question the science, it was only to define how the new calcium maximum (which will be set at maximum 1.8%) for growth large breed dog food will be listed in the next AAFCO Publication. But, there was some complaints from industry about having to change their formulas to the lower level of calcium maximum.”

    “It was disheartening to me to hear two industry representatives complain they will have to reformulate their dog foods (to the lower calcium levels) – right after Dr. Burkholder just told them there are health risks associated with higher calcium levels. These industry representatives seemed to care more about the work involved to lower calcium levels than the risk their foods could cause to the dogs consuming them.”

    http://truthaboutpetfood2.com/day-aafco-meeting

  • Pattyvaughn

    Could you please provide the page number, or better yet, a screen shot of the page you are referring to?

  • Pattyvaughn

    Thank you so much! You have gone far beyond the call of duty!

  • Pattyvaughn

    Doesn’t look like it says anything at all about the different needs of large breed puppies, not even with a search for puppies.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Thanks again!

  • zj

    I searched “puppies” “puppy” “giant breed” and “large breed”

    I didn’t find anything for nutrient levels for large breed puppies.

  • zj

    Puppies

  • Shawna

    Nope, sure hadn’t.. Thanks… :)

  • Pattyvaughn

    Did you see above where zj posted?

  • Betsy Greer

    I almost got it. I would’ve shared, assuming that’s allowed, right? ; )

  • Shawna

    Yikes!!!! Anybody (or 5 or so) wanna go in on one? :)

  • Betsy Greer

    Could we trouble you again to check to see what the recommendations might be for large & giant breed puppies, please.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Thanks!

    I’m not seeing any mention of large breed differences in calcium levels. This just has Growth and Maintenance minimums and maximums.

  • zj

    This is the calcium info from 2014 AAFCO OP

  • Pattyvaughn

    The thing with protein turned out to be completely false, high protein is not an issue with large breed puppies, but fat and overfeeding can be. In fact, they found the biggest contributing factor to poor joint development is overnutrition. Allowing a puppy to be overweight puts a tremendous amount of stress on the joints, in fact their recommendation is to keep puppies on the thin side until they are completely grown.

  • Betsy Greer

    Hi Dejan,

    There’s actually a lot of evidence that supports controlling Calcium in large breed puppies. There are a lot of good articles in the second post in this thread on DFA regarding large breed puppies: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/, several of which discuss the hazards of excess Calcium and its relationship to skeletal disorders.

    It’s also really important not to over-exercise a young large breed puppy to avoid stressing joints and keep him lean for the same reason.

  • Dejan

    Thanks. It means that ca/p rate is on which I shuld take most attention, what is with proteins and fats, or something else. BR

  • Pattyvaughn

    $125 to get it too.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Too much calcium makes their bones and joints grow too fast, which means that they don’t form well.

  • sandro

    Mislim da se previse opterecujes s odnosima oko kalcijuma i sl, stenci sad imaju vec 10 meseci, imad raznih proizvoda fatmine ali tvom stenetu ce odgovarati i papi obican i nd ili royal canin junior takodje. ja sam davao nd low grain. Hils hranu nikad nisam koristio tako da nista ne mogu reci. srecno sa stenetom.

  • Storm’s Mom

    How do you know what’s on the bag when it’s not even available here yet?! The % you are quoting are the minimums, from what I can tell. It’s the maximum % that is most important. What is the max calcium % of the Farmina GF Chicken?

  • Dejan

    Koliko su stari štenci? Koliko sam uspe da shvatim iz komentara na moje pitanje najveći problem je odnos tj. količina kalcijuma u hrani. Koliko ja znam ovaj moj koristi Hills u ishrani, kakvo je tvoje iskustvo, da li koristiš N&D Grain-Free ili N&D Low-Grain. Pozdrav

  • Dejan

    Dear Betsy, I’m glad to hear that you have a lot of friends from Serbia. Thanks on your detailed explanation, problem in Serbia is such that the offer on the market is not as comprehensive so the choices about food is not great. We have a so-called super-premium food (Hills, Royal Canin, Purina, Eukanuba….) and other not-so-strong brands (MeraDog, Pedigre….) There was a TOTW and Orijen but now they are not present on the market, I heard that Orijen should be available again, but no one knows when. Vet told me that regardless of the amount of vitamins that are listed on the packaging of food I will need to give additional supplements to support the development. Good thing is that I still have a few weeks until the arrival of the papy in the house so I will hopefully be able to find a good solution.

  • Shawna

    Apparently an online publication just became available November 1st. I’m not 100% sure but it seems to be a “feed” guideline? Even if it is, seems odd that the average dog owner would have a publication like that only days after it is released?? Hmmm

    http://www.aafco.org/

    Edit — Oops, didn’t see Patty and Betsy’s posts before I posted this…

  • Dejan

    First I would like to thank everyone who took the time to participate in this discussion, after all the reading I can say that my knowledge about the pet food is very modest even moreover poorly, what was the reason for my address through this forum. What to say, so far I believe that for large dogs is very important to have as much calcium amount in the diet for better growth phase support, which appears to be an fallacy.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Yep!!

  • Betsy Greer
  • Pattyvaughn

    While I was trying to find info to verify what he was saying, I went to AAFCO’s site and there is a link for dog food manufactures to buy it. You probably don’t have to be a manufacturer to buy it…

  • Sandro

    Ja stencima azijata od pocetka dajem nd farminin cak ni starter nisam davao, odiican je neces pogresiti al svakako trebas videti sta je odgaivac davao… pozz i svako dobro.

  • Storm’s Mom

    Do you have a link to this 2014 AAFCO paper you and the Wallaces have been referring to? Since it’s 2013 I’m just trying to figure out how you and they have info about/access to an (as yet unpublished?) paper that appears to change the rules, as it were. If any of the other DFAers have knowlege of this, and “it’s just me”, then that’s awesome, I’ll stand corrected….let me know :-)

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Do you have a vested interest in this product? If so, you are required to advise our community of this fact and so state and to use your real name.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Do you have a vested interest in this product?

  • njdobbie

    http://usa.farmina.com/

    It looks like all the foods specifically refer to AAFCO “ALS”. Betsy, no offense but the 2014 AAFCO paper specifically refers to ideal range for large breed puppies of 1.30% – 1.80% as suggested by the National Research Council with footnotes to several studies. In fact, the minimum was raised by AAFCO to 1.20% minimum with a 1.80% maximum based on studies that below that amount was too little. I have it printed out. I don’t have the link but its very clear. All he/she was asking was to back it up. There is way too much opinion being thrown around as fact. There doesn’t seem to be any basis at all from the scientific community that around 1.50% is too much calcium. That is the level in Acana LBP, Orijen LBP, Farmina N&D LBP as well as others. Even some none GF large breed puppy foods with lower GA calcium would have greaters than 3.25 grams per 1000 kcals. So is everyone wrong but you?

  • Betsy Greer

    Andrew & Peg Wallace,

    Do you have a vested interest in Farmina?

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    To whom it may concern…

    According to Our Commenting Policy:

    “Pet food manufacturers, distributors, retailers and representatives may also comment here. However, those with a vested interest in any product must publicly disclose this important information to others and always post using their real names.”

    Posting here is a privilege. Please consider yourself duly warned.

  • Betsy Greer

    It appears as though my opinion will just have to differ from your opinion.

    Also, I see that the Farmina website indicates that their products are “all life stages,” but nowhere do I see that it’s as defined by AAFCO. As Farmina hasn’t yet been introduced into the US, I’m not sure why they would be conforming to the ALS as defined by our protocol prior to their IPO here.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Well, I freely admit to being google challenged, but I have tried every combination of words that I can think of to find info to verify this, but I keep coming up with nothing that says anything. Care to provide a link?
    And does it have any info on their recommendation on grams of calcium per 1000kcal? Because that is 1/3 of the equation we are looking at. What is the calorie content in the formula you are recommending anyways?

  • aimee

    When comparing nutrients between diets it is important to always evaluate on an energy basis. NRC basis is a diet of 4000 kcals /kg.

    A diet with an energy density of 4000kcals /kg and a Ca of 1.8% is at there safe upper limit of 4.5 grams/1000kcals. I don’t have the book in front of me but I’m guessing that the 1.3% you are reporting is the recommend level which equates to 3.25 grams/1000kcals.

    Most nutritionists recommend not to exceed 3.5 grams/1000 kcals for large breed growth,

  • Betsy Greer

    The optimum calcium/phosphorus ratio for dog foods is generally considered to be between 1.2:1 and 1.4:1 as reported by the National Research Council on Nutrient Requirements of Dogs in 2006. The American Association of Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) lists the acceptable range of ratios in commercial feeds to be between 1:1 and 2:1.

    http://portais.ufg.br/uploads/66/original_Racas_grandes.pdf

  • Andrew & Peg Wallace

    Sorry Patty, no you are wrong. Orijen Large Breed Puppy is also about 1.50% and some other are slightly higher. The NRC concluded that diets between 1.30% – 1.80% dry matter calcium resulted in optimal growth for large breed puppies and less than 1.30% cause growth deficiencies. This is why AAFCO changed the rules for 2014. The acceptable range in C/P was 1:1 to 2:1. The only reason I am commenting on this point is that what you and Betsy say is just opinion.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Excuse me, but what is your basis for saying Betsy has no basis. You have no idea what research she has done.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Research would be a basis for saying 1.5% is too high. They have done research to determine how much calcium is too much for a large breed puppy.

    http://www.lgd.org/library/Optimal%20feeding%20of%20large%20breed%20puppies.pdf
    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/
    You sound like someone that has a stake in selling this food, not someone concerned with large breed puppy development.

  • Andrew & Peg Wallace

    Besty,You also have no basis for commenting the C/P ratio. If these are your opinions please state that rather than making it sound like fact.

  • Andrew & Peg Wallace

    Betsy, you have no basis for saying 1.5% is too high. That is just one of these internet “facts” that goes around and never dies. 1.80% dry matter is the limit in the USA with 1.20% being the minimum It appears that every Farmina food is AAFCO ‘all life stages”. The statement is on each formula on the website. I realize you are trying to be helpful but you are not correct.

  • Betsy Greer

    Hi Dejan,

    Welcome from Serbia! I have lots of Serbian friends here in the Chicago area. : )

    Farmina looks to be a great product and there are lots of us here in the US eager to get our hands on it!

    The primary concern, in the US, would be that the Calcium level is too high in the Farmina products for a large breed puppy in growth phase. The Grain Free Chicken LBP (large breed puppy) variety lists a minimum Calcium level of 1.5% and a Phosphorous level of 1%, for a CA to P ratio of 1.5:1. That’s too high for a LBP in growth phase. If 1.5 is the minimum, I’d also want to know the maximum, but the packaging doesn’t state that. I believe however, by European standards, 1.5% is within the acceptable range.

    That aside, the Calcium on the GF Chicken at 1.3%, GF Herring at 1.3%, GF Boar at 1.3%, and the Chicken & Ancestral Grain Puppy at 1.3%, and Cod & Ancestral Grain at 1.2%, should all be fine for a LBP.

    With that said, one thing I don’t know about is if the “Adult” Farmina formulas meet the equivalent of the US AAFCO profiles for growth meaning that it’s fine for all life stages and therefore good for your puppy, too. I know we have someone who posts who is familiar with that information and hopefully he’ll read this and respond.

    If I were in Bosnia making a decision for my LBP, I’d probably choose the Chicken & Ancestral Grain Puppy formula.

    And, it’s ironic that your vets there are recommending Hills and Royal Canin, too! Many of us here tend to hear them out and then politely go on our way to do our on research and find the food of our choice.

    Hope this information helps some!

  • Andrew & Peg Wallace

    1.80% and 1.60% is dry matter basis not as stated on the bag, sorry. I looked at Farmina N&D GF Chicken and it is 1.30% with 10% moisture, so dry matter it is 1.44%, which is well below the limit of 1.80%.

  • Andrew & Peg Wallace

    I see no reason why you cannot use these foods for a large breed puppy. This company apparently has a team of vets and nutritionists so I would listen to them. Vets are schooled to sell Hill’s products because they visit the schools and give the students gifts and teach some of the classes.
    As for calcium levels, the experts in the Unites States have apparently decided that 1.80% calcium and 1.60% phosphorous as stated on the bag is the line for growing puppies including large breed puppies.
    This food is well below those limits. Keep your dog at good weight and should have no problems.
    The company also has a 30% protein line as well with very low organic grain content of 20% and I would presume would cost less and just a bit less calcium.

  • Pattyvaughn

    This food isn’t available here yet. The big concern with large breed dogs is the amount of calcium they get while growing. Too much causes joint issues. You need a food that has between a 1:1 and a 1.3:1 calcium:phosporus ratio and that has less that 3.5 grams of calcium per 1000 kcalories.

  • Dejan

    For fifteen days a new member in our family will become Central Asian Shepherd female puppy. I inquired about food that would be appropriate for such dogs (large dogs), because I simply trying to ensure to puppy the best possible conditions for proper growth. Since that on the Serbia market N&D Grain Free is available and here I saw that is evaluated the same as Orijen and Acana which are not available on our market, I decided to check at a local pet shop and with vet, opinion and experience with N&D Grain Free and I was informed:
    - in local pet shop which have in offer N&D Grain Free, from their experience for the race as CAO (large dogs) is not good to use grain free food.
    - vet standpoint, hills, royal canin are the superpremium pet food and there are no errors in the selection
    Honestly, now I’m confused therefore I would like to ask for help, if anyone has experience with this kind of food with large breed dogs please advice, just that I would not make a mistake.

  • victoria

    I wish it didn’t have brewers yeast in it, my dog is majorly allergic to it. Oh well.

  • Ross C.

    I checked with the company and the company also posted this morning on here that the foods are coming from Europe made with the same ingredients as they use there. They will not be made in the US. I have some friends in my breed group from Italy and they love the foods.

  • losul

    Hi Dave, actually I’m much more interested to know they will be manufacturing in Europe and using the same European fresh ingredients/suppliers, instead of trying to imitate the product/ingredients here in the U.S.
    I think it shouldn’t add but probably less than 20 cents/lb to the freight costs and probably about a week to the transit time.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    I actually bought some raw ground goat to use in my homemade batch. GL just has so much flaxseed and legume in it! That’s why I hesitate to use it.

  • Betsy Greer

    Hi Farmina!

    Very exciting! Can you tell us what online retailers will be carrying your products? I’m assuming you’ll also go live with a product locator on your website for brick & mortar retailers when the day arrives. And, lastly, I’m in the US, but for our Canadian friends; will they be able to purchase your products as well?

    Thanks! Blessings on your US product roll out!

  • Farmina USA

    Hello from Farmina in Italy to the United States! The Farmina N&D line for dogs and cats will be available nationwide on-line in about 4 – 5 weeks from now. The foods will be available in stores soon as well, starting on the West Coast.
    We have been asked if these are the same foods using Italian, French and Danish ingredients that are made in Europe and the answer is Yes! All foods available in the USA will be shipped from Europe made only by Farmina.

    Please direct all questions to us at Farmina USA:

    http://usa.farmina.com/
    Thank you very much and thank you for accepting us so warmly.
    Farmina USA

  • InkedMarie

    Wow, why did PetFlow stop free returns? Ive never had to return pet food that i got online, for me, I don’t think I’d need to unless it was out of date when I got it.

    I order from Chewy most and love them

  • InkedMarie

    Dave, in about five weeks, it is supposed to be available at Chewy. I will post when I hear more

  • Dave’s Hounds

    The US is such a large market it would make sense to make it here as well as in Europe.

  • Dave’s Hounds

    not even online? This looks good I would like to try it. Not that I need anymore dog food. This am I finally opened my bag of Grandma Lucy’s Goat for the hounds….

  • Betsy Greer

    Nowhere in the US, Dave. : (

    Edit: I should’ve said nowhere in North America.

  • Betsy Greer

    Yay! I think I’ll give it a try for Bella (since Sam can’t have potatoes he doesn’t get anyway ~ poor Sam).

    I think I’ll be ordering more frequently from Chewy. They have good prices and I’m miffed that Petflow (from whom I ordered A LOT) suddenly no longer has free returns and I have something I just received and decided against, but it’ll cost $9.99 to return it. They changed their policy on 09/24/2013, and did bother sending out an email to their customers or anything.

  • Dave’s Hounds

    where can this be ordered now?

  • losul

    That all sounds good to me! Thnx much Ross, Marie, and the rest.

  • InkedMarie

    I’m told that Chewy will be selling it in about five weeks

  • Ross C.

    I emailed them on this exact point and some other points and all the foods are made in Europe with the same ingredients less a few minor ingredients like Marigold that are not allowed in the pet foods in the USA. They also changed the form of selenium to Selenium Yeast due to consumer demand. This company discloses a lot of information like ash, animal protein content, suppliers and manufacturing methods. I was able to find their Pledge of Quality and Origin on Truth About Pet Food. Looks very solid.

  • losul

    Looks like one I would be eager to include in rotation. provided the cost isn’t out of line, and that the ingredients and suppliers are the same as sold in Italy. I wonder if what they plan on selling in the U.S. will be exported from Italy or do they have plans on U.S. manufacturing?
    http://usa.farmina.com/?q=content/product/grain-free-wild-boar-recipe

  • Nese Erguven Ozbey

    Never say small breed can only eat homemade food .. if you want for your dog healty long life never give up from N&D grain free. Totally perfect formula .no more coat problem at home

  • Lucca

    I’ve been feeding this to my two dogs here in Italy for two years now and I’ll never switch. It’s better even than the Evo I fed them when we lived in the states (and that was before P&G bought it and screwed it up). Best stuff on the market now, IMHO. No GMOs + No Chinese ingredients = NO RECALL. Love this stuff.

  • InkedMarie

    Meg, is that you???

  • Meg

    Can’t wait to try this food! Check out the website, it has more info about all the products. http://usa.farmina.com/

  • Andrew & Peg Wallace

    It is so interesting to see this review. We have three Lagotto Romagnolo and our Italian friends use this food. It is supposedly an excellent food made by a family company with a sterling reputation. Wild Boar sound good to us!!!! Never ordered on-line before but might give it a whirl.

  • WildBill

    I am so excited to see this reviewed and am glad it is set to be sold in the US. When my daughter and I lived in Italy last year we fed our dog Wild Bill the Wild Boar formula! It is the best selling high protein food sold in Europe. I knew it would be five stars. Our dog absolutely loved it and looked and felt fantastic. I messaged Chewy.com where we buy our food and they said they would be selling it soon.