Bravo Balance Dog Food (Raw Frozen)

Mortons lite salt has potassium chloride as well as sodium chloride, so it is a good source of potassium, but when you are making homemade food you still need to make sure your dog is getting the correct amount of sodium.

me too!

Agreed for the most parts, except where wolves venture into farms and attack livestock. Wolves don’t know the difference between commercial livestock and non-commercial. I know there’s been French cases of this ongoing occurrence as well as in US Wisconsin. Probably more cases as well.

Downunder, dingoes prefer kangaroo over say sheep, and it’s less of a problem here, but when there’s a shortage of kangaroos for whatever reason, dingoes too, grow bold for farm raised livestock. Even human babies, if given the chance, as per the Chamberlain case in point, which the courts finally ruled. However, just on that, I’ve always still have my doubts about the dingo taking a human baby.

Wolves don’t each animals that are commercially raised on a large scale neither. That being said, Bravo should just pick better suppliers where the risk of salmonella is lower.

I’ll be first in line for the book!

This is getting ridiculous – the AVMA and FDA and their germ-phobia are permeating everything. How about companies focus on sourcing quality meat and using clean manufacturing facilities rather than pressurizing away bacteria? I saw this coming when the AVMA announced their policy on raw last summer and I think the FDA is going to start mandating that all companies have some sort of sterilization process in place in the near future. I have a feeling that non-HPP (true) commercial raw products are soon going to be a thing of the past. Makes me glad I make my dogs’ food.

Poultry is more likely to be contaminated with salmonella.

Double UGHH!

I got an email today that Bravo will be using HPP on their poultry products. When I get on my computer, I’ll copy & paste info

Does anyone know if Bravo has been involved with recalls, mainly their raw foods? I swear I’ve seen this logo before and they sound like a big company. Nothing wrong with that – just curious how they can sustain the quality of raw foods. Thanks

Sodium and chloride are absolutely essential for all animal life, but excessive amounts is not so good. NRC- National research council sets advisory guidelines/standards for these. Iodine too.

When I home prepare my dogs meals, I actually include about a teaspoon of salt and a teaspoon of powdered purple dulse (red algae) for every 5 pounds of meat.

I think some dogfoods may have enough sodium and chloride in them without adding salt, as they occur naturally in many foods, and sometimes I would suspect they might have too much (and/or too many other minerals), especially if they make your dog overly thirsty.

 HPP – High Pressure Processing – kills bad bacteria – also used in raw juices

I recently lost a greyhound and for the last few years, due to a heart issue (leaky valve to put it in plain lingo) he took 100mg of taurine 2x a day, along with other preventive supplements… and he NEVER got bad, re: heart.  So I wouldn’t worry about taurine.  The vet cardiologist is who told me to do this!!!

I have been feeding my dog Bravo for 7 years and it has been going fine until just recently.  I usually buy a month’s supply (about 60 lbs in 2lb tubes, chicken and turkey) at a time.  I bought a new round a couple weeks ago, and my dog refuses to eat it.  He has never been finicky before.  I bought some turkey and chicken parts from the grocery store and he ate those no problem, so he is not off chicken or turkey.  There is something else that has changed in this batch of Bravo.  It does not smell bad to me, but he gives it a brief sniff and walks away.  Is anyone else seeing a problem?

I do not feed it but I would not feed any food that had a bad smell to it. You should take a look at Darwin’s. It is a raw food, much like Bravo, only available from them (they ship). I live in NH, they’re in WA state, I get it two days from the day they ship and everything is frozen solid. When the customers get the Darwins, it is 4 weeks or less from the time they made it. Hard to get much fresher than that, unless you do prey model raw. Have you asked Bravo about this smell?

I wish you’d ask the company about cooking it because I am pretty sure you are not to cook any raw for any reason! If you want to cook for your dog, you may as well do home cooking. Reading your posts on this thread doesn’t say to me it’s the perfect food. With your issues, you should look for something else. I don’t know how many dogs you’re feeding but you may want to look at Darwins (look at the review here). It is not available at any stores, it is shipped directly to you. They offer a trial package with free shipping; you may want to look at it.

 True, but that has nothing to do with the taurine issue, do you feel better now.

I think the original wording was premium animal ingredients…not meat fwiw.  The heart disease first recognized in dobes is cardiomyopathy…a very sad disease.

Jess, I was looking at Stella and Chewy raw and noticed that their foods contain taurine. I had heard there is a new recommendation for taurine for dogs as well as cats in pet foods, but did not know the details as you have described them.  I did not find any taurine in any of the kibble I looked at and the petstore said that dogs did not need it..Glad I asked, things change and it is good to know…

Kind of interesting if you notice that the new Acana grasslands says the 60% premium meat and poultry ingredient, instead of the old wording of just premium meat. I wonder if Taurine played a part.

Hi Flynn,

Taurine is a non-essential amino acid for dogs (they can manufacture it themselves) and an essential amino acid for cats (they need to consume it in their diet). However, while dogs are able to manufacture it themselves through other amino acids, if they’re eating a diet that is not species appropriate (high in grains, by-products, etc.) it is possible for them to develop a taurine deficiency. For these reasons, most highly processed commercial foods will supplement with taurine. If dogs and cats are fed a well rounded raw diet, however, supplementation generally is not necessary. Most fresh raw meats are a good source of taurine, with heart and brains being the best sources.

My crew of 8 (and foster dogs that have come through) like both equally well..    I think they are close enough nutrient wise that either would be a good choice ..

The link Addie posted describes HPP well..

Answer’s raw pet food has an interesting article on HPP.  It can be found under the “What Makes Ours Better” heading on the following page  http://www.answerspetfood.com/nutrition.html

Aunt Jeni’s also has a page on HPP  http://www.auntjeni.com/pdf%20files/Is%20Your%20Pet%20Food%20Safe.pdf

Regarding your picky eater   The Primal venison and rabbit are really good but in my area are pretty pricey..  I just ordered some Darwins..  But they too are a bit limited on variety..

Other options —- using the Bravo meat only line with a premix.  Buffalo, venison and salmon added to either Sojo’s, Honest Kitchen Preference, or Steve’s Premix (which has less ingredients that a picky eater might appreciate but does use some synthetics).

I use Bravo Balance turkey, Bravo meat only (all three flavors) with one of the premixes, Primal venison and rabbit, Darwin’s duck and bison (will be soon at least) as well as turkey and beef from Trader Joes with a premix.  And then, I get deer and beef heart, from friends, with the premixes.  Heart can be fed like a muscle meat.  I also incorporate eggs and sardines into the diet..

Good luck!!!!!

Shawna,
What’s HPP?  I assume it’s some kind of gas or chemical used in processing.  I am transitioning my dogs from Acana to Bravo Balance.  My raw meat hater is loving it and licking the bowl clean.  Finally, a raw food she will eat.  I’m so happy. 

But, I’m still researching a few other brands to rotate in since they only have the three flavors in the balance line and she has a chicken intolerance.  I prefer to give them some variety because the girl with the chicken intolerance is picky and gets bored easily.  I love the limited ingredients and human grade quality of Bravo Balance. 

Anybody recommend another brand with similar characteristics?

thanks so much.

i’m kinda bummed about the patties. They were my perfect raw. I live next to a holistic pet food store, hopefully they have something i don’t have to fuss with. They have quite a few brands.
 
i read some of the comments on Primal stuff, people are mentioning the HPP and someone says the HPP makes it rubbery?
 
So bummed. i went through 3 different kinds of raw before finding the amazing bravo balance patties, and if i have to go through another 3 raw bags/packages of food and don’t find anything… dog is gonna eat dry food for the rest of his life. lol. I can’t be fussing with water in, water out, thaw, refreeze, re-this, re-that.

Dear Bravo, I HATE YOU. lol. I’ll check out the primal.

Because I am feeding so many, I let the whole thing thaw in the fridge (and sometimes on the counter top — shhhhh don’t tell) and then serve it til gone.  I buy the 2 pound chubs which last about 2 and 1/2 to 3 days.  I have 5 on raw and 3 on raw with kibble but all range from 5 to 14 pounds.

Bravo website says this about portioning the food.

“thaw the meat in the refrigerator and once it is soft enough to handle (there should still be ice crystals in the center of the meat), immediately portion it out and re-freeze.”  http://www.bravorawdiet.com/tips.html

Hi Jess L.

I don’t use the patties but do use the bravo chubs..  Sometimes so have a bit more liquid and are a bit mushy at first.  I usually drain the excess liquid off (when this happens) and stick the food in the fridge.  It firms up after being in the fridge.  When I feed, I add the liquid back in.

You might also try adding a small amount of low moisture hamburger in (at 20% or less) which when combined with the patty might give it some texture?

If you continue having issues with the patties — check out the chubs.  Might work better for you?

I also use Primal — GOOD food but heads up..  In my area it is significantly higher priced then Bravo.

Please do let us know if you continue having issues!!

oh great. what the heck do i do with this slop? grrrr. my dog will not touch it, and he usually loves his bravo. .

Thanks for the Primal advice, just checked their website, ingredients look good. I really loved that Bravo has such limited ingredients, it was so CLEAN!, (NV sorta gave my dog the itchies or something), gosh.  K, i’ll look through the Primal flavors, Quail looks interesting, whatever a quail is. lol. : ).

Okay, i called and got a hold of someone, she said the newer packaging keeps them from losing color so maybe that’s why it was more red, that the intense color might be more organs and that usually the form is not so much slop, but rather formed, but that it should be fine. Blech. Fine, i’ll just cook these “patties” to give them texture, my dog will not eat the slop, and i’ll just hope that the next box i buy is formed patties instead of slop. if the next one turns out like that i’ll look for another raw. blargle.

Thanks. what color is the chicken you have seen from bravo? Are you getting the chicken tan, or the cajun orange/red? and what is the texture of yours, the more formed, or the more slop?

Hey there, has there been a change in the Bravo Balance patties? or did i get a weird batch….

i get the Bravo balance patties, usually they are soft but formed, round, clean edges and the color is somewhere btwn chicken tan and a little bit of greige once they thaw if in the fridge for a full day, and not red, (hello, it’s chicken!) maybe a tiny pink, but i can’t quite remember, and little bit of blood. Have bought at least 5 boxes of the 12 patties.just bought a box of the patties yesterday after not having bought them for a few months, and from the same place as usual. i noticed it had new individual packaging, almost bowl like instead of just a pull-apart wrapper, so at first when i saw the color difference though it was just a minor change, but once i thawed and opened it saw it was totally different color, red/orange, almost colored red/orange, like a dye was used, but i know they would never do that. it was like the color of cajun food, (?) and totally not formed like the usual patties, i had to scoop it out with a spoon, and it was almost like slop. But the type of packaging that was new seemed like it would be that way to accomidate for that texture. (i actually had to fry it up in a pan to give it any sort of texture other than soupy slop).Anyone usually buy the patties? which do your usually look like? and wth?

I sent them an email, it bounced, so i left a msg for them, awaiting a call back.

OH BOY THATS NEET YOU GUYS ARE DOING THAT! IM SURE IT WILL REALLY TIME CONSUMING! I DON’T ENVY YA’S AT ALL!
 WRITE HPP BECAUSE…THATS THE NAME? THATS WHAT IT SAYS ON ALL THE PACKAGING…ON THEIR WEBSITE ETC  / IM GOING TO LOOK RIGHT NOW..BRB…
HEALTHY PET PRODUCTS RAW MEAT THATS WHAT HPP STANDS FOR…I DIDNT’ EVEN NOTICE IT SAID THAT HA! so there ya go….well by the sounds of it…you won’t be reviewing it anytime soon.
i also just bought some brand new food from doggiefood.com called
CARNA-4 HAND CRAFTED DOG FOOD OVEN BAKED WITH  FRESH CHICKEN SPROUTED SEEDS-WHOLE VEGGIES… ANY KIBBLE I EVER BUY IS NEVER FOR A FULL MEAL..THEIR RAW IS THAT I’LL USE AS TREATS ..OR TO HOLD THEM FOR  1/2 HR ETC TILL RAW GETS DEFROSTED… BUT THEY LIKE THIS..THEY WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT NEW DNA FOOD.
OK HAPPY RE-REVIEWING  ….

Hi Dawn,

I’d love to answer your question. However, you mention “HPP”. I’m not sure I know what that means. A more complete name would be much appreciated.

In any case, please be aware that Sandy and I are in the midst of updating hundreds of reviews. This is a critically important (and time-consuming) project that will take us many months to complete.

So, this massive task will significantly slow down the rate at which we can produce new reviews.

I’ve recently added a “Recently Updated” link on the left sidebar so you can monitor our progress.

Hope this helps.

 Dawn-

the “website” you are referring to is NOT a website. Its merely a thread on a german shepherd forum and quite funny to read.

HEY MIKE HOPE YOUR WELL. :0)
I know u r asked tons of times a day
“MIKE WILL U REVIEW SO AND SO’
LOL NOW MY TURN
THE GIRLS HAVE BEEN HPP RAW. IT’S AWESOME THEIR WEBSITE VERY. GOOD HAS GREAT TIPS THEY SELL FREEZE DRIED OF THE FROZEN.
I LOVE HOW YOU CAN GET IT TO
ONE WAY IS LIKE MOST… In rolls (5lbs) BUT MY FAV AND WISH OTHER PLACES THIS.. IITS IN STIX! THAWS SUPER FAST SO EASY TO SERVE AND STORE!
IM WONDERING ON YOUR LIST OF TO DO S?
IT’S NOT EXPENSIVE EITHER IM FORTUNATE I HAPPEN TO HAVE A DEALER ABOUT 45 mins AWAY. USUALLY THE SHIPPING IS WHAT KILLS YA!
ALSO ONE OTHER FROZEN FOOD (not raw) I WANT IT ON MY ROTATION BUT IN CALIF HE’S TRYING TO FIND THE CHEAPEST WAY TO GET IT TO ME. I LIKE IT MUCH BETTER THEN MY PERFECT PET THAT HAS SO MUCH POTATO AND BROWN RICE IN THE BLOCKS YOU CAN NOT SEE ANY MEAT
OH I DIDN’T TELL YOU THE NAME LOL IT’S CALLED
FRESHFETCH IT’S REALLY AWESOME HAVE YOU HEARD OF ITi!?
IT’S IN CALIF
SO NOW I ASKED FOR. TWO REFERRALS I GAVE EEEKKK LOL
THANKS FOR HANGIN IN THERE THRU THIS BOOK I JUST WROTE. :0)
TAKE CARE!

My dog loves Bravo Balance – I rotate the varieties at each feeding. Never had a problem with him refusing to eat it – he scarfs it right down. I supplement with a raw beef marrow bone a couple of times a week. I keep Honest Kitchen on hand if I run short before the next order is delivered. No problems there, either. He’s a very happy boy in wonderful condition!

My dog refuses to eat Bravo. I don’t know what it is about the smell but he just turns his nose to it. Don’t waste your money like i did and try a better raw dog food brand. JJ Fuds seemed to work nice until i switched to this crap

Thanks guys. Luckily there’s a pet supply shop only two minutes away from me that carry the bravo balance line. I also bought the fish oil and my dog happens to like it a lot.

Shane ~~ I agree with the others that the shedding is likely a detox and will pass. Honest Kitchen and Sojo’s both use top notch foods in their products but both (esp Sojo’s) is quite deficient in protein. Protein as well as Linolenic Acid, an omega 6 fatty acid, are necessary for excellent quote quality.

Make sure however that you are feeding Bravo “Balance” and not one of the other foods (like the buffalo, elk, duck, venison, lamb, salmon etc). None of those just listed are balanced — several are just meat only. NOT a good option. It must be the balanced line or you will end up with more issues then you resolve — down the line that is.

The chubs are not supposed to be thawed and then re-frozen.. BUT, you can thaw the food out enough to easily cut it with a sharp or serated edged knife and avoid the squirtying hassels.. As long as their are still “ice crystals” it is safe to re-freeze — this comes right off Bravo’s website..

Shane – No need to chop raw meats into pieces, if you just purchase RMB’s as they are, and carcasses, and offal etc.

Re the fur shedding. I know that my dogs shed less fur than ever when on a quality and varying raw meaty diet as Mother Nature intended. Prior to my dogs being on such a diet, they were on a diet of processed pet foods and they were shedding more fur and had lack luster coats. With an exception……Such as some processed foods that are at least of higher quality such as Artermis and Eathborn range of kibbles that did show some great results for my dogs. But not like an appropriate raw diet, which does them the greatest all round health and appearance benefits.

So my point is that feeding an appropriate raw diet includes using fresh and not stale meats, nor contaminated same with hormones and chemicals like many sources unfortunately can bear on such. These are even worse for feeding your dog, than what carrion (stale dead animal parts lying around or stale left overs) in the wild, is.

Vigilance and care should be taken when choosing and buying fresh meaty and drug free sources. Then such should be stored frozen, then fridge thawed over 12 hours or so. If feeding Bravo, or similar BARF type meals, then expiry dates should be checked and the freshest possible, purchased. Freezer storage is paramount when not being fed and care should be taken that such commercial BARF are not allowed to thaw after purchase when arriving home before placing same in your freezer.

The above are just some points in respect of taking care in how quality of raw is also crucial to be the case.

A wonderful endorsement by a pet owner for the use of enzymes in the treatment of a “raw” fed ill dog (peripheral neuropathy). http://healthypets.mercola.com/groups/healthypets/forum/t/126799.aspx

Gordon,
Your writing style suits me just fine!

Hope you are enjoying your new job!

I checked — Kal does test for “heavy metals”.

Gordon : ),

I said I tried reading his book but couldn’t because I found his writing style offensive…. I listed to a podcast but it wasn’t by Lonsdale himself.

I’ve noted that their is a shift away from using bone meal as a Ca source in home prepared diets due to accumulated toxins associated with it. But I’d imagine this varies with the source animal???

Oh, Gordon, glad to see you’re back!

aimee – Oh yeah…. but before you said that you couldn’t bear listening to the Lonsdale tape and stopped before it finished. So which is it, lol?

“Could this explain why when we feed processed foods the Ca level in the food needs to be controlled? I don’t know!”

Don’t know either aimee. Does it? I just let Mother Nature instead of Iams, Purina, P&G, Hills SD, Mars etc, control the Ca and other mineral levels. However, granted that the latter should have such minerals be in appropriate levels and in proportional ratios with other minerals to mimic that of Nature or equivalent absorption rate. But, do they? This is something I guess you would know if those manufacturers really do?

Jessie,

The pups are so cute… love the head wrinkles!

Hey Shawna,
Reading Steve Brown’s “Unlockng the Ancestral Diet…” boy can it be complicated! He does make it easier though with his ABC plan. I am reading corresponding Internet research as I go. Having my own ‘predjudices’… Came acrossed this amazing nugget from University of Maryland Medical, “vitamin E, from evening primrose (borage, black current) can cause seizures.” !!! Made me wonder how many people with dogs having seizures were supplementing their dogs with plant based vitamin E?! Food for thought!

Hey Aimee! Not sure what was going on with the photographer’s website, but it has been fixed! Sorry about that!

Gordon, I hear what you are saying in regards to Mother Nature verifying Ca levels, however, the Rhodesian Ridgeback is not an indiginouous dog! Yes, ancestry would stem back to the Hottentot dog, which was a wild dog, however, the Rhodesian Ridgeback was bred by humans and most likely grows at a different rate than a wild animal. I completely understand the concept of feeding raw and I am all about doing what’s best for my dogs! I almost feel like there is too much information available regarding dog food and it becomes a little overwhelming at times, and hard to ascertain truth from fiction! And maybe fiction isn’t the right word to use here, but whose information is the most accurate? I have started to incorporate raw foods into my puppies diet because I believe that it’s good for them, and so far, they already have less gas after cutting out the canned food! That’s a positive result from my perspective! However, I was reading some studies on “The Great Dane Lady” website last night regarding dogs fed raw vs. homemade cooked vs. commercial kibble with additional vitamins, and the dogs fed all raw were in the worst health at the end!?? I’m reading all of your discussions regarding garlic and think there is a good and bad perspective from all angles! How are we as consumers supposed to digest all of this and make a decision on what is best for our animals? It seems like no matter what we decide, there is a negative risk involved!

I feel comfortable with the Ca levels in the Wellness Large Breed Puppy food, and I feel comfortable with what’s in it. Why am I now thinking that Wysong may be a better choice? Lol. I am driving my husband insane with all of this! Maybe I like this forum because it makes me feel comfortable knowing that I am not the only nut researching dog food all of the time! What on earth has come over me? Lol. Thanks for reading.

Wow, won’t be making many comments currently, as am too busy lately, but have just quickly skimmed the latest since my last post here, and…

Just making this one comment and probably be back on the weekend. Anyway, all I can say is, I wonder if Mother Nature told the wolf to look up Purina, Iams, Science Diets’ kibbles’ calcium levels etc to make sure its pups were receiving puppy maintenance food? Or did she just demand and rule that a pup will eat what its parents eat…..such as a little of what I had listed that I feed, above. Less fur and skin and a few other exceptions. Hmmm, maybe Mother Nature and one of her advocates such as the one who bored the hell out of aimee when she was on her way to a conference and couldn’t listen to the rest of Dr. Tom Lonsdale’s recording or whatever it was that aimee apparently listened to?….but couldn’t finish listening to it. Hmmmm, I wonder???

I’ve got your measure aimee.

Hi Aimee! Thank you so much for getting back to me! Just out of curiosity, are you a Vetrinarian? You seem to have so much knowledge regarding dog food, and dogs in general!
I have read your threads regarding large breed pups under the Blue food, however, I don’t think that I could go back to feeding them Eukanuba after I read the ingredient list. To be honest, both of my dogs were a little itchy when they were eating that food, but that seems to have stopped after discontinuing. I understand the calcium levels are lower, however, Wellness Large Breed Puppy food claims to have calcium levels between 1% and 1.4%, which is actually one of the lowest levels I have seen on good kibble for Large Breed Puppies. Have you heard of the “Great Dane Lady”? She helped develop the Precise Holistic line of food, and the calcium levels in the large brred puppy are at 1.2%, again, one of the lowest that I have seen. She also has some good articles regarding the “Carpel Flexural Deformity” along with pictures. My puppies look nothing like the pictures regarding this deformity! They are also showing no signs of knuckle weakness and run around like crazy! If you get a chance, you can look at their pictures on http://www.pinkparrotphoto.com! Click on the cute picture of the beagle puppies that says Blog, and my puppies will be the first ones on the page, Copper and Tandy. These were taken a couple of weeks ago. Please keep in mind they are HD, taken on an slight incline, and I think if there are any signs of knuckling over, I personally think it’s just the way they are standing. I guess u can make your own judgement if you do end up taking a look!
I also went to the body scoring chart on Purina’s site, and my puppies are on the leaner side of 4, if there is such a thing! I decided to increase their food to 4 1/4 cups for the 40 pound puppy and 3 1/4 cups a day for the 30 pound puppy. They are so active and must be burning lots of k/cals because I think they are skinny!
So, back to the calcium, I ended up buying a 5lb chub of Bravo Balance raw last night and plan to incorporate a small amount of it to be used as more of a topper to start. Do you think using it in that way will throw off the calcium balance enough to make a difference? I guess I won’t give them much more than that until they are around 18 months of age and done growing! I will also give them an occasional RMB (thanks Sandy!), but most likely not until next Spring when they can eat it outside! Not sure I like the idea of a bloody bone on my cream carpet!
Anyway, I really appreciate the feedback as I just want to do the best that I can for my pups! This site is great and I’m learning a lot!

Shawna,
Dogs do have an anatomic region called the fundus and it does fill first but it is functionally different than other species.

Shawna,

The idea that the food is in the fundus and held at a higher pH is true in other species but I haven’t found this to be true in the dog.

The dog is unique in that massive amounts of HCL are released and the pH quickly falls as opposed to a delay in other species.

I too have heard of plant based being more acid resistant. Yet when there is a medical need for enzymes replacment in dogs plant enzymes are never recommended because they are found not to be an effective replacement therapy. So I wonder then of what benefit are they in a normal animal? Is it that they are intrinsically not effective or is it that the concentration of plant based supplements is so low that the volume needed is impractical?

Got it aimee!

From my understanding the food first enters the fundus which is not as acidic as the body of the stomach. It’s in the fundus that the enzymes in the food, if present, start working to break it down. Then moves on to the body where the majority of HA is released activating the pepsin – considerably more acidic then the fundus.

I also read that plant based enzymes (possibly the reason for the inclusion of bromelain and papain?) are heartier then animal based enzymes.

Shawna,

I’ve read that enzymes being proteins themselves can be inactivated by gastric acid and subject to digestion.

“PHILADELPHIA – Scientists have long pondered the seeming contradiction that taking broad-spectrum antibiotics over a long period of time can lead to severe secondary bacterial infections. Now researchers from the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine may have figured out why.

The investigators show that “good” bacteria in the gut keep the immune system primed to more effectively fight infection from invading pathogenic bacteria. Altering the intricate dynamic between resident and foreign bacteria – via antibiotics, for example – compromises an animal’s immune response, specifically, the function of white blood cells called neutrophils….

“Neutrophils are being primed by innate bacterial signals, so they are ready to go if a microbe invades the body,” Weiser explains. “They are sort of ‘idling’, and the baseline system is already turned on.”" http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/2010/01/good-bacteria-prime-immune-system/

I agree Toxed — but you knew I would

Jumping in with my 2cents… if everyone knew that maintaining a healthy gut prevented so many chronic illnesses, 1) it would take a huge bite out of current mainstream medical practice’s income, and 2) the majority of folks would pooh, pooh it until it ‘became pressingly relevant’ to them. IMCynicalO

You would think Ashley but sadly the answer is no..

From medical dictionary

A partial list of the wide variety of complaints and illnesses that can be treated by enzyme therapy includes:
AIDS
anemia
alcohol consumption
anxiety
acute inflammation
back pain
cancer
colds
chronic fatigue syndrome
colitis
constipation
diarrhea
food allergies
gastritis
gastric duodenal ulcer
gout
headaches
hepatitis
hypoglycemia
infections
mucous congestion
multiple sclerosis
nervous disorders
nutritional disorders
obesity
premenstrual syndrome (PMS)
stress
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/p/enzyme%20therapy

Thanks Shawna .. that makes more sense.

I don’t think enyzyme supplements are necessary as a digestive aid, especially as most don’t survive the stomach and are given in such low doses.

However, I’m also very intrigued by some of the studies I’ve read in regards to arthritis and cancer. Mother Nature is conservative… do these compounds we call enzymes have other functions separate from their role in digestion?? I don’t know.

Gordon

Yes my friend, I knew what I was in for when I left my post .

BTW — it’s not digestive issues that concern me. It’s the lack of metabolic enzymes necessary to prevent cancer, arthritis etc. Yes, are grandparents may not be taking supplemental enzymes but they certainly are developing cancer, arthritis and other enzymes related diseases.

“Nearly all pathogens, including cancer cells, are protected by a protein-based coating, or “fibrin”, that makes it difficult for the immune system to identify and destroy them. This sticky coating can be up to 15 times thicker than the membrane of normal cells (1,5). This is where metabolic enzymes are needed. The bulk of these enzymes are proteases, or “protealytic”, which means they speed up the breakdown of proteins. In sufficient quantities, they digest the protective fibrin membrane and expose the cancer cells to the immune system.” http://www.naturalnews.com/022452.html#ixzz1d2LVn266

From How Stuff Works website

“At any given moment, all of the work being done inside any cell is being done by enzymes. If you understand enzymes, you understand cells….

The purpose of an enzyme in a cell is to allow the cell to carry out chemical reactions very quickly. These reactions allow the cell to build things or take things apart as needed. This is how a cell grows and reproduces. At the most basic level, a cell is really a little bag full of chemical reactions that are made possible by enzymes!

There are hundreds or millions of copies of each different type of enzyme, depending on how important a reaction is to a cell and how often the reaction is needed. These enzymes do everything from breaking glucose down for energy to building cell walls, constructing new enzymes and allowing the cell to reproduce. Enzymes do all of the work inside cells.

There are hundreds or millions of copies of each different type of enzyme, depending on how important a reaction is to a cell and how often the reaction is needed. These enzymes do everything from breaking glucose down for energy to building cell walls, constructing new enzymes and allowing the cell to reproduce. Enzymes do all of the work inside cells.

There are hundreds or millions of copies of each different type of enzyme, depending on how important a reaction is to a cell and how often the reaction is needed. These enzymes do everything from breaking glucose down for energy to building cell walls, constructing new enzymes and allowing the cell to reproduce. Enzymes do all of the work inside cells…” http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/cellular-microscopic/cell2.htm

Sorry Shawna – Implying that you’ve fallen victim to what those professionals advocate, was a wrong choice of phrase. Their information is probably very informative and truthful in many aspects, but I meant to convey (and I should have done it using a different written tone of expression), that sometimes, one can be so entrenched in their belief system, that they forget that what they advocate, is not an actual must do, but instead, a can do, or it doesn’t hurt to do, or it can help, predicated on what is fed, etc.

Ashley – As promised, I would post in depth what I’d recommend raw wise, is as follows. Apart from a rotation of Bravo and Darwins, should you want to actually feed the dog’s closest natural diet, then that would be that, based, on the prey model or close to, of which whom, through all the fog of misconceptions, close truths, half truths, fallacies, and lies, Dr. Tom Lonsdale advocates the clearest truth.

And so, the following is some of my own feeding regime provided to my dogs, of which is as an example over say a 2 week period:-

Monday –

Breakfast: Rabbit meaty offcuts mixed with a proportion of Dr. Bruce Syme’s Vets All Natural premix (My convenient version or way of providing a percentage of digestible nutrient rich carb matter)

Dinner: Raw meaty bone (RMB) say a chicken wing each (Not forgetting that my dogs are small class 2: terriers, under 10kg)

Tuesday –

Breakfast: Kangaroo meaty offcuts mixed with a proportion of Dr. Bruce Syme’s Vets All Natural premix

Dinner: RMB, say beef soup bones or marrow bones

Wednesday -

Breakfast: Lamb meaty offcuts mixed with proportion offal (organs) say heart.

Dinner: RMB, say lamb briskets (Meaty lamb ribs)

Thursday –

No breakfast – Intentional

Dinner: RMB – whole chicken frame each

Friday -

No breakfast – Intentional

Dinner: Whole raw fish each, unscaled, with head (most nutritious part) intact. A once a week meal.

Saturday –

Breakfast: Whole raw certified organic eggs

Dinner: Whole wild rabbit carcass

Sunday -

No food at all – Intentional fast, as a mimic to Nature for wolves in the wild, who don’t always have something to eat everyday. Intentional fasting is healthy for the dog’s biological and digestive processes.

Monday -

Breakfast: All raw liver meal only (A once in every fortnight meal). Liver from any animal suffices, and is one of the most nutrient dense organs available. Especially high in vitamin A. I’ll usually rotate between chicken and lamb liver.

Dinner: Turkey necks

Tuesday -

Breakfast: Pork meaty offcuts mixed with proportion of spleen

Dinner: Chicken frames

Wednesday -

No breakfast – Intentional

Dinner: Lamb briskets

Thursday -

Breakfast: A couple scoops of certified organic yoghurt with juiced kale and or spinach and or sometimes both

Dinner: Whole raw fish

Friday -

No breakfast – Intentional

Dinner: RMB, say chicken wing and a couple of necks each

Saturday -

Breakfast: Whole raw certified organic eggs with proportion of offal, say lung

Dinner: Chicken frames

Sunday -

No food again – Intentional fasting day.

ETC ETC ETC.

In between breakfast and dinner, I sometimes provide healthy treats such as air-dried liver, lamb crumbles, pig ears, pig trotters etc.

Anyway, this is just an example of what I rotate and feed and how. You can do the same and/or feed something like Bravo and/or a rotation of both systems, etc. There is no right and wrong and as long as variety is kept in focus in addition to the mindset of natural and raw real food way of feeding our 4 legged best friends.

I accidentally hit the enter button. I intended to further address aimee, when I hit the enter button.

aimee – garlic doesn’t have the high concentration of thiosulphate that onion does, so I can see why Dr. Becker would think otherwise! High concentration of thiosulphate will cause Heinz body anemia, hence onions are much more dangerous for dogs, and even more so for cats. But small amounts of garlic a day for dogs, suffices just perfectly.

In fact, to counter claim the ASPCA’s hysteria, Dr. Lisa S. Newman, ND PhD, states, “garlic is falling victim to mass hysteria spread through the internet. Yes, there are 51,174 sites devoted to warning about the “toxicity” of garlic, this hysteria has even prompted the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center to place a warning on garlic although there is little scientific data to back this claim other than the fact that thiosulphate is also found in garlic. Yet, there are also over 400,000 sites still proclaiming its benefits, many of them from reputable holistic veterinarians who have widely used garlic in their practice for many years! How can an herb suddenly turn so bad?!”

Shawna,

Are you saying that a dog’s digestive enzyme can be used for a metabolic reaction if oral enzymes are supplemented?
I don’t understand how this could be as enzymes are very specific in their function

Ashley,

“Large doses” — true enough but most dogs wouldn’t willingly consume the amount actually needed to cause heinz body anemia.

Dr. Becker (from Mercola Healthy Pets) talks about safe amounts of garlic to feed dogs and cats on her clinic website.
“Garlic is naturally anti-parasitic, anti-fungal and anti-bacterial. Garlic, in small amounts, is a wonderful addition to your pet’s diet. Fresh garlic should always be used, giving cats and small dogs ¼ to ½ clove/day, medium dogs a ½ to 1 clove daily and big dogs 1–1½ cloves daily. Onion, a relative of garlic, produces anemia in pets and should not be fed.

*Additional info for vets: Onion toxicity is caused by the metabolite alkaloid n-propyl disulphide which inhibits normal enzyme activity in red blood cells and causes them to denature, producing Heinz body anemia. Garlic is metabolized to allyl propyl disulfide, which does not inhibit red blood cell enzyme activity unless consumed in massive quantities(4).” http://www.drkarenbecker.com/nutrition/raw_food_diets.htm

Dr. Martin Goldstein calls garlic a panacea in his book “The Nature of Animal Healing”.. Holistic vets have been using garlic for a long time..

Garlic helps from the inside out. Using the spray that Sandy mentions or mint that Toxed mentions would be an extra bonus protection.

That was another question I had. I know this is a little off topic but I was wondering what I could give my
Dog instead of flea and tick meds. My thoughts are, if I don’t feed my dog chemicals why put it on my dogs skin? I’ve heard about garlic but I’m apprehensive because garlic is supposed to be bad for dogs in large doses? What would you recommend to prevent or treat flea or tick problems?

Hi Ashley,

I’m with Gordon on commercial raw brands — Darwins, Bravo Balance (or others as you learn the ropes of feeding raw) and Primal non-poultry products. Everything else I’ve looked at is too high in fat or subjected to high pressure pasteurization.

I give enzymes at every meal.. Dogs do make their own enzymes and there is some in the food but if we supply extra enzymes in the diet the ones they would produce on their own can be used for metabolic purposes — to deal with the dirty world that Sandy mentions.. I agree with Sandy completely..

I give probiotics OR foods with extra probiotics off and on. Probiotics are self sustaining if fed the foods they eat. BUT, antibiotics, chlorinated tap water, chemicals life heartworm (I’ve heard) can kill whats there. I don’t give my pups any of the above so they should have a good gut colony. However, because of fostering, they get introduced to a wide variety of bad guys — like giardia. When we have a round of diarrhea in the house (which is a major issue with 8 to 10 dogs) I start adding probiotics (as well as small amounts of garlic and pumpkin) to their diets.

I give other supplements off and on (kelp, spirulina, turmeric, pumpkin seed oil plus) but they are not necessary in a species appropriate diet. My dogs are all rescue and damaged dogs so I give extra. Sandy mentioned spirugreen — another excellent supplement..

Jan,

There’s probably not enough milk thistle in the Great Life Enzymes/Pro to do a detox after medications. Dr Beckers books says 100 mg a day for a week? after heartworm meds, but you’d have to ask Great Life and see if they tell you the exact amount of it. But then again, is it enough to help on a daily level for everyday toxins? I don’t know. Is some small amount better than none at all?

Ashley,

I use Nature’s Variety Beef and Primal Duck, Quail, Turkey Sardine and Rabbit. I also use the Mercola pet probiotics and digestive enzymes and supergreen. Not everyday. I’m sure our dogs get some unintended/unknown level of toxin exposure/body stressor daily even if it’s just from air pollution or drinking from a water puddle along the sidewalk while out somewhere or maybe even while going on a walk. My neighborhood is pretty strict about weeds, so I’m guessing they use chemicals in the common areas. I’d like to think I’m helping their bodies be as healthy as possible since today’s world is so “dirty”.

If you click on the product, there’s lots of info to read.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/products.aspx

I’m interested to hear what raw products or brands of raw food and supplements youd recommend shawna? I’m open to everyones opinions. The transition from Orijen to raw has been smooth so far-I can thank the high quality of champion petfoods for that but may end up feeding only raw

I’m sorry, Gordon mentions humans don’t get supplemental sources of enzymes and probiotics and this may be true with our modern day processing of foods. But, this is not the case with traditional human foods. We ate a significant amount of supplemental enzymes and probiotics when we prepared our foods at home. Examples of foods that used to be full of enzymes and probiotics (and still are if home made) — raw milk yogurt or better yet raw milk kefir, pickles, olives, saurekraut, pickled beets, soy sauce, tamari, beer, wine, kimchi, kombucha tea, fermented meats (fermented is also referred to as cultured). The list goes on and on and the cultured foods eaten was dependant on region.

Gordon — I think you just did Ashley a huge disservice.. You just recommended that a Orijen kibble feeder (part time) not give enzymes or probiotics because the raw she JUST started feeding should have it.. Stop and think with me a moment — she is not able to get Bravo (the food she originally wanted) and is feeding Primal instead. She mentions that she will stay with the poultry free BUT if she decides to start feeding any of the poultry (that has been subjected to HPP) the food will be, most certainly, deficient in both..??

Ashley — you haven’t heard about enzymes and probiotics because, I’m guessing, you are not in any holistic forums/communities… Allopathic medicine/feeding is JUST discovering and implementing the benefits of probiotics. Yogurt, by the way, IS NOT a good way of getting probiotics in most states in the US. In the US most yogurt is made from ultra pasteurized dairy — all enzymes are damaged as well as proteins and any naturally occuring probiotics. Feeding dairy, in the US, is a really good way to cause your dog to develop leaky gut/food allergies/intolerances/malnutrition etc…

A wolf would get supplemental enzymes and probiotics from buried bones, raw tripe (guts and content of guts), the prey animals pancreas and poop eating.. Gordon mentions that Dr. Lonsdale (in another post) finds it completely normal for a dog to eat bunny and cat feces for their supplemental needs — I personally prefer to take the route of a purchased product. Yes bunny and kitty poop is free — but I’d rather not go there. By the way — my raw fed dogs of over 5 years, ate bunny poo before I started supplementing enzymes..

Gordon likes to quote Dr. Lonsdale and Dr. Billinghurst (Billinghurst does recommend supplementation by the way). I however have gained my knowledge base from a wide variety of sources — both vets, nutritionists and human doctors (Dr. Becker, Dr. Goldstein, Dr. Jones, Beth Taylor, Mary Straus, Lew Olson, Dr. Thomason—that doesn’t even include the human doctors). My father is a Naturopathic Doctor.. I assure you, it is quite healthful for humans to take probiotics and enzymes as well.. Just becuase one isn’t taking them doesn’t mean they shouldn’t.. Anyone that is routinely ill, has indigestion, bloating, poor stool quality, yeast infections plus many many many more conditions could benefit..

Did you know that probiotics are beneficial for the immune system. If you (or your dog) have an ample supply of the right gut flora the neutrophil white blood cells are “primed” and ready for any invader that might enter your body…

Did you know that enzymes “treat” a variety of diseases (like arthritis, colds, allergies, CANCER plus a very very long list of others).

The other thing I want to mention — “health” is subjective.. About 60 to 70% of the bodies “vital force” has to be deteriorated before symptoms appear.. Meaning you (or your dog) are well into sickness before you see ANY symptom… You don’t just develop cancer overnight. Kidneys have to be about 65% dead before the first symptoms start to appear. This is an irreversible disease.

If you fed your dog Dr. Lonsdale’s diet I would say it is safe to say that you don’t need the supplements. BUT, unless you are giving your dog bones to bury and eat outside (where probiotics will be picked up off the ground), feeding whole carcasses (guts and all), cat and bunny poop etc —- you are NOT getting the same diet that he refers to in his book….

I can provide you with a laundry list of human doctors and nutritionists that recommend the inclusion of enzymes and probiotics but as this is a dog food site I will refrain.

Hi Jan, I was skimming through comments the other day, and noticed one from you ( I think) about using Cali natural or something from P&G. I didn’t have time to post then, so I wanted to let you know what happened with my cats. I used to feed them the canned Innova cat/kitten food before the sale to P&G, and they always liked and did well on it. Well last week I picked up four cans, and after one feeding of it, all 3 cats started having liquid stools, I mean mud puddles in their litter box. It took 3 days for them to even get formed diarrhea. 7 days later their stools are still soft, but on the way back to normal. I am returning the remaining 3 cans, and will never buy this product again as their is something VERY wrong with it. Just wanted to let you know. ;o

Jan ~

I have been using this supplement for a few months ~ powder form. I ran it by Shawna ~ so it passes the test. : ) Dupree is eating canned Instinct in the morning; so I throw it in there. After his latest run in with the flea bite ~ he received additional milk thistle after his course of meds. He eats Stella and Chewy’s for dinner; so I do not add it to that.

Monkey,

This 2 in 1 pro/enzymes comes in a 100 ct chewable.

http://www.doctorsfinest.com/Enzymes_Probiotics_plus_4lb_p/ezpro.htm

They have an herbal flea/tick spray too.

Oh one other thing on this topic….Do you take supplemental enzymes and probiotics from commercial bottled/capsule/tablet form? I know I don’t and still am healthy and nothing wrong with my digestion. I also know that the human’s nutritional system for a lack of a better description is far more complex than any other life form/organism’s requirement.

Some points for you to consider from an anti-commercial supplemental enzyme and probiotic use perspective, for healthy beings.

Ashley – Just my 2 cents. There is no need whatsoever in the history of all wolf-kind to add any bottled probiotics or enzymes to raw food!!!! None, zip, zero!!!

Raw meat have naturally occurring enzymes and a healthy dog’s system processes raw meat and bone to perfection as only Mother Nature intended!!! Even if you never even ever give your dog the ‘pancreas’ offal/organ to eat, it sill does not need bottled supplemental enzymes and probiotics, guaranteed!

I’m a raw feeder basing my feeding regime on the ideal of Dr. Tom Lonsdale, and he confirms all supplements are a waste of money.

I’ve been feeding raw meaty bones (RMB’s), offal, carcasses, whole raw eggs, whole raw fish etc, with out any bottled profit making enzymes or probiotics. And guess what? My dogs from different litters and different ages and different breeds, albeit both terrier class dogs, are doing perfectly and have super great biodegradable stools and not much of it compared to feeding processed commercial pet foods.

It does appear though, that many commenters here have sickly dogs with history of ailments, for whatever reason, including obtaining them as rescues and fostering them (An admirable and wonderful act of compassion), and so, could probably do with some supplemental enzymes and/or probiotics or both, for aiding in digestive issues that their dogs may have, of which otherwise, healthy dogs DO NOT!!!

As an experienced raw feeder to healthy dogs, I feel very strongly about the subject, and I can guarantee that bottled commercial enzymes and probiotics are totally unnecessary. However, natural probiotics by way of certified organic all natural yoghurt is always a nice addition to add to some meals on occasion, as do I.

However, should you wish to buy any commercial bottled enzyme and or probiotic supplements, then by all means do so, as you’ll at least be contributing your money to your national and or global economy and keep those manufacturers employing staff. Spreading the wealth around is not a bad thing if one doesn’t mind throwing some spare money, away.

Ashley,

Primal is (was imo) a REALLY good food. They must have had some bacterial issues because earlier this year they started high pressure pasteurizing their “poultry” products (so the duck, pheasant, quail etc). In my opinion, a food subjected to high pressure pasteurization is no longer truly raw. However, it does address your concerns about possible contamination issues.

The food also has a great fat to protein ratio (some raw foods are WAY TOO HIGH in fat). And, the omega 6 to 3 ratio of the different foods are within ideal ranges. They have a ton of variety (if you are willing to use the poultry products) and as you stated are hormone and antibiotic free and the veggies are primarily organic…

Primal was a LARGE part of my rotation til they started HPP. Even though subjected to HPP, its still better then canned or kibble..

I would suggest that you eliminate one of the exotic proteins (like quail) from any rotation that you might do just in case you ever have to do a novel protein diet — like to diagnose a food allergy or intolerance…

And to answer your question — imo, even raw fed dogs can benefit from digestive enzymes with each meal. Probiotics are handy to give off and on. These two should absolutely be supplemented in a kibble diet so really you wouldn’t be adding anything if feeding raw — just continuing these two.

And, as you state — Orijen is a good kibble. However, it is not unusual when adding raw to the diet to have a minor healing episode. The body does a miny detox (which is good). Symptoms can be short term diarrhea, eye and/or ear drainage etc. The healing episode (also called a cleansing crisis) happens so often that Dr. Martin Goldstein has a whole chapter about it in his book “The Nature of Animal Healing”. Don’t let it throw you. If pup is eating and looks and acts healthy then it may just be a little detox going on….

GOOD LUCK

Thanks to Mike and shawna for the helpful responses I went to the same pet store I get my Orijen at but they didn’t have bravo so I tried primal instead and my dog LOVES it. I love the fact that it’s human grade and antibiotic and steroid free. Yay! If I decide to switch to raw feeding only, are the primal nuggets enough or do I need to incorporate anything else into her diet?

PS — Just last Thursday I had a bout with an intestinal bug (HORRIBLE diarrhea, fever and chills). Two probiotics and a teaspoon of garlic was all I used. By the time I went to bed I was fine. I use smaller doses of the same protocol with my dogs. Hasn’t failed me yet…

Shawna, what probiotic do you use?

Mike — tried to reply to Ashley’s post but after about 5 or 6 lines of typing I could no longer see what I was typing?  I’m too long winded to keep it to 5 lines.

Hi all-

I currently feed my 10lb. Yorkie/rat terrier mix Orijen and she does fabulously on it. Creme de la creme of dry dog foods, IMO. However, I do see the pros of raw feeding and wonder what your opinions are of supplementing one meal a day of raw and the rest Orijen? I’m also concerned about food borne illness and wonder what I could do to prevent this? My dog is incredibly healthy and I don’t want to make her ill by test running raw food. The only raw I’m really interested in feeding is Bravo. For the people who have tried it, how does your dog do on it?

I just accidentally stumbled on some, imo, VERY interesting info on probiotics (from a fabulously hilarious website–about gas and farting believe it or not).. I was trying to find info to post for a Boxer with gas issues on another thread

The right kind of bacteria in our gut (and presumably a dog’s gut) can prevent the absorption of and/or health risks from “heavy metals”. In the US chickens can be a source of arsenic and cow bones, in some cases, are contaminated with lead. Then, of course, mercury in fish. http://truthaboutprobiotics.com/2011/09/16/intestinal-bacteria-affect-heavy-metal-exposure/#comment-1411

Sherry – I got to go, but in catching your question, high meat protein and low fat sources like kangaroo meat is the most ideal to feed in your case. Dr. Lonsdale and Dr. Billinghurst say so, as well as Dr. Syme. Elk and venison meat is another good source for weight management as well as fullness feeling.

Shark cartilage supplements are great natural same for dog’s with yours stated condition.

Anyway, good luck. Gots to go.

This question may fall into the area of being to customized to answer, but thought I would try anyway since I can’t figure this out on my own. I have a very overweight 2 yr old Sheltie that I adopted from a pound in June. I have her weight within 2 lbs of what the vet recommended by using NutraScience Weight management dry and Wellness Canned. She has been diagnosed with auto immune poly arthritis and was 3 legged for awhile, with Predisone she is now back to walking pretty normally however the drug is making her sooooo hungry. I was looking for a brand of dog food that would make her feel full, but yet be a “diet” food to keep her weight off. Thank you!

lynda,

My family is almost here so making this quick. I disagree with the others… Raw foods can have probiotics already on them but if they have probiotics they will also likely have bad bacteria — both come from the same place. However, probiotics are not a supplement that would need to be taken every day. And, things that you give your dog may kill the natural gut flora off — like chlorinated water or meds (like steroids, antibiotics or NSAIDs). Because they are SOO important for health (including the immune system) imo they should be supplemented off and on — OR, feed raw green tripe which is where wolves would get some of their supplemental probiotics.

Bravo recommends adding salmon oil but I chatted with them once and it is a precautionary recommendation. It is not necessary in every situation. Example — if you feed any of the red meats (which are grass fed) they already have a proper omega 6 to 3 ratio. By adding additional omega 3 you will over supplement which can cause damage on a cellular level. Also, I think sardines are a much more natural source of DHA/EPA then processed oils. Just my opinion though…

Steve Brown writes about this in his book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” —- “A good dietary omega 6/-3 balance, which includes consumption of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), makes the cell membranes fluid, permeable, flexible, and healthy. Too much omega-6 (from chicken fat, corn oil, safflower oil, soy oil, canola oil), on the other hand, makes the cell membranes (including those in the brain) brittle, sluggish, and inefficient. As a result, the dog thinks and moves a little slower. Likewise, too much DHA in the diet can make the cell membranes prone to oxidation, which leads to premature aging.” Excellent book btw…

Gotta run, my family just got here…

lynda schaffer – salmon oil would be advantageous but a priobiotic is unnecessary to add to something that’s raw, unless of course, Bravo is pasteurized? That I don’t know? Otherwise if it is not, IMO, probioitcs in bottle form is not needed. You’d be better off with real untampered organic yoghurt cultures. Bravo on paper looks like an excellent premade raw product!

Where can u buy this food at? Is it online only?

Hi Christina, You can either call or e-mail Bravo to get the answer. Calling would be your best option, to get the quickest response. http://www.bravorawdiet.com/index.html

Christina, have a look at these. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/raw-dog-food/

Sydney – Sorry that I never saw your question. I’d be happy to share my 2.35 cents worth. Bravo should have their own suggested feeding guide, but the general rule for BARF type meals, is to feed your dog anywhere from 2 to 6% of the dog’s own body weight, depending on its activity levels, age, and whether a lactating or pregnant bitch.

Due to my dog being more and more finicky about her dry dog food over the past year, I have been incorporating canned food to help entice her to eat. However, that pretty much just resulted in her avoiding the now moist, dry food and focusing solely on the wet food in the mix….though, still not having quite the appetite she used to have. (I want to add in that I have taken her to the vet to ensure there wasn’t an underlying problem affecting her appetite.) So, since she has backed me into this corner, haha, I figure I’d start looking at the raw diet side of the coin if I’m shelling out more money anyways. What I was wondering about this food, is what the recommended portion size for a 50lb dog? So, I can figure out if I can afford to eventually make this switch if need be.

Thank you in advance!
-Sydney

Durapet Slow Feed Stainless Steel Dog Bowls are designed to slow down your dog’s eating to improve digestion and nutrient absorption. Made using premium heavy duty stainless steel with a permanently molded rubber ring in the base for slip resistance and noise reduction. Dishwasher safe. Lifetime warranty. Imported.

I’m sure Big Box probably carries these bowls as well.

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?sku=130606&rn=889

gordon, my younger boy is a gulper. he will just swallow without one chew. he rarely chews his kibble, he just licks it up and swallows. keep in mind he is only 8 pounds, so the kibble is not small for him. do u or anyone else know of ways to try to get him to slow down and chew a little?

BTW, happy Canada Day to all Canadians.

Hi Jonathan, I just saw your old post from June 5. I noticed that you said you cant afford canned food for your big dog. I have 2 large dogs, so I am always on the lookout for decent foods at a good price. Anyway, I recently found the 4health brand at Tractor Supply. Dr. Sagman rates their canned at 4.5 stars, and it is only .99 cents a can, a real bargain for such a highly rated product! I use the pate’ style and split a can between the 2 dogs mixed with a cup of the dry 4health for dinner. For their morning meal I mix their kibble with either scrambled eggs or sardines, alternating daily. For snacks/treats they love fresh fruit and veggies. Anyway, just a thought on a cheap 4.5* canned food-it could last you two days per can……….

JANE I ALSO FORGOT TO SAY… THE BALANCE IS SO MUCH MORE THEN THE REG BRAVO..DO YOU USE THAT ALSO? I DO AND JUST ADD PROBIOTICS ENZYMES 200IN VIT E AND LIQUID FLAXSEED… BEEF SEEMS THEIR FAV AND LAMB AND BALANCE DOESNT HAVE LAMB..WONDER WHY? CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU PAY FOR BALANCE?? I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT..THANKS )

JANE…THANK YOU SO MUCH!! WONDER WHY THESE PLACES ARE NOT MENTIONED ON THE BRAVO WEBSITE? IM ONLY 20 MINS FROM HUNTINGTON..I WAS GETTING JUST REG BRAVO FROM SOMEONE IN HUNT…BUT THINGS WENT AWRY (SP)
ARE ANY OF THESE ONLINE? OR WHO HAVE TO GO THERE TO GET? THANKS JANE THAT WAS NICE OF YOU!

Dawn,
I’m on Long Island and feed both my cavaliers Bravo Balance RAW. There is a place in Huntington that carries it , Community Pet Shop, 631-421-0088. I also order it from Animal Appetites in Wantagh , 516-785-5142. In Merrick, Mutts & Butts gets it for me also 516-379-6391. It is admittedly difficult to find.

I forgot to post the link referred to above in my 2nd paragraph. Here it is: http://www.rawmeatybones.com/tvVideo/todaytonight/todaytonight.html

Just starting my four precious little girls on Bravo! raw food. I am at a total loss when it comes to giving them bones. Yes, I am one of THOSE people. Bones and chews have always scared me. The Bravo site isn’t real clear about do’s and don’ts and their bones are huge. My girls are all very small; 4.5#, 5#, 7#, and 9#. My 4.5#er is a very aggressive chewer, she like to destroy everything. Does anyone have any wisdom for me that they can share? I want what is best for them and I don’t want my ignorance to get in the way of what is best. From all I’ve read bones and chews are needed for a lot of reasons. I just don’t know what kind, what size, what? Any ideas or tips would be great. Thanks! P.S. This web site is fantastic. Thanks for all the great work you do!

The girls are on Bravo (reg formula) I give all along with it as i stated above..plus they also get aunt jeni’s..they looove and the get mORIGINS beef raw and some freeze dried raw for when i forget to defrost the raw…or just a good treat :O) The Girls (Sophie & Sabrina) looove it all..and now..stella & chewys just came out with surf & turf freeze dried..omg!! lol to watch them eat it…its like theyve never been fed lol… So all is good right now..
Jonathan im dying to know…what food are you feeding your precious companions? :O)

Hi Dawn, Sorry I have not been on the site in a while. I hope you have found some of your answers. Only one of my dogs likes the lamb. Lamb is very rich in raw form, my small female gets an upset stomach from it. I have had several rescues that had trouble with chicken kibble but did fine with raw. There are ways you can balance the bravo original. Drop me an email – agiledawgz@yahoo.com

MIKE I ALSO WANTED TO ASK WHY YOU HAVE NEVER REVIEWED AUNT JENI’S RAW? ITS SOOO CHEAP EASY TO ORDER AND VERY GOOD! I STOPPED USING CUZ MY OLDER BEAGLE DIDNT CARE FOR IT LIKE THE OTHER RAW FOOD…BUT IM GOING TO TRY AGAIN FOR MY 8MO OLD SABRINA. (STILL USING BRAVO AND MORIGINS TOO) I LIKE USING A VARIETY ITS GOOD TO DO. NEVER KEEP A DOG ON THE SAME THING EVERY SINGLE DAY!
THANKS FOR LISTENING TO MY SUGGESTION (WELL…IF..YA DO THAT IS LOL)

helaina
i started mine at 3 mos old…i know many many raw feeders that start their puppies at 6 weeks or after feeding from mommy :O) both my beagles are on raw…..its the best! right now im using Bravo & Morigins (Mike check out their website its awesome! the best of the best of raw food!!!)with added probiotics capsule of vit e open over the food and liquid flaxseed….(If you get the bravo “balance” you dont have to add the vit E) everyone raves how gorgeous they are..my 2 1/2 yr old gives the 8 mos old run for her money..when on can/kibble all she did was..sleeep! had no energy! mix “some” can with raw so it goes slow there its belly in the beginning eventually ending up with all raw. (ONLY GOOD can lol i used weruva (pronounced we ruv u) its the best(ike has it reviewed..theres only 2 for puppies) i buy it at k9cuisine.com because you can buy individual cans instead of buying a whole case and if they dont like it…) i still use it “IF” ive run out of raw for a day or forgot too defrost the raw one meal….. I hope Ive help some? at 3mos i also gave raw beef marrow bone they LOOOVE nibblng on it and good for their need to chew and their getting vitamins while at it) :O)
and Happy wishes with your new puppy…what kind is it?
Dawn
Long Island NY

I’m getting a Havenese puppy in four weeks.
Can I start him on raw dog food or should it be canned first?

well….knew it was to good to be true…just like all the dozen of places say this nearby pet store of mine says they carry their product…they dont! because they carry the bravo TREATS they put themselves down that they sell bravo food. grrr ! so just picked up PRIMAL raw lamb…. which is a great raw food but My oldest has never really liked thier food..Im hoping the puppy will :O/ jealous of all of yas that get the bravo raw lol. Bye for now….

hi everyone who wrote me back! thank you very much..I did find someone JUST ONE person LI that sells it but she 99% sells the regular..she said she can ordder the BALANCE but she doesnt go get it for 6 weeks from now!! and also the BALANCE doesnt come in lamb :O*( they get (my 2 beagle girls Sophie & Sabrina) :O) they get itchy from chicken…maybe not from the raw chicken ya think? The woman said all her customers like the reg formulas because its cheaper and she sells a container of supplements (lucky her juj ? lol) so im trying to debate waiting for the balance and HOPING the chicken and beef or turkey dont make them itch. I wonder why they make lamb in reg but not the BALANCE? kim its been awhile since i put in my zip so maybe theres more now..Hey wait lol how did you know MY zip? Long Island is very looong many many many diff zips..im curious which one did you pick? Im way out east almost by the hamptons (well not really about 1/2 hr away) I appreciate you writing back that means a lot. heading over to the website now. Keep up the gr-888 work feeding your little darlings RAW!! (although my oldest beagle 2 1/2 was on raw for 2 yrs she all of a sudden just stopped wanting it? i tried all the raw that Mike has here…no go.. ) i was so upset but i found this Outrageous canned food that I hate to say made her look healthier-not a couch potato anymore–has sooo much energy and never sheds (i also give animal essential probiotics/enzymes and liquid flaxseed) this food is awesome so i dont really feel bad shes been having it its expensive but sooo worth it (but…my puppy now 8 mos when i got her at 3 month i immediately took her off the junk the breeder had her (grrr pedigree) and gave raw….from barfworld you’d think she never ate in her life everytime she was fed!!!) but they JUST jacked up their prices that it comes with shipping 51 bucks!!! for 6lbs of it….its ridiculous!) my husband just lost his job! and even if he didnt with the prices of this world now who can afford 51 bucks for one bag of food! i feel sooo bad she loves it!! why im going to Bravo because so inexpensive….oh my gosh i wrote a novel sooo sorry mike forgive me! Thanks Bunches again (ps that canned food in weruva) Love ya’s ~Dawn~

Hi Dawn,

At the Bravo website they have a link to find retailers in your area. http://www.bravorawdiet.com/bravoretailers.html I put in one of the zip codes for Long Island NY and several retailers came up. Try your zip code and see if there might be some close by.

hi
i have been trying to find Bravo BALANCE…nobody sells it esp online! My one beagle didnt care for the reg plus like you said you have to add extra things. can i ask where everyone is finding their bravo BALANCE? I called bravo they said they dont sell it online have to get from a distributor in your area? which i dont have any….I live on Long Island in NY. i would deeply appreciate if you could tell me where you all are buying it. Thanks bunches
Dawn

We feed all of our show dogs and retired dogs actually all of our dogs Bravo and we love it the coats are great the eyes shine they are playful and not hyper. No gooky ears hardly any tooth issues. Our vet does not recommned raw food diets but he says our dogs are the healthiest in his practice No health issues at all.

We tell all of our puppy buyers to ues it. You can see the difference in your dogs in a week if you go off of it or just start using it. We feed the complete version since it is easier than adding the supplements to bring the original up to speed but that is just our choice I love both products.

Can’t be beat in my opinion!!

Have just recently went to Bravo Balance, chicken and turkey (he is allergic to beef) for my corgi with coloits, IBD and hot spots. The only thing that worked before Bravo was homecooked, which was not always easy to make or get balanced. This food has been a god send, no more vet $, no steroids, no meds at all.

Hi Mike,
If you don’t have Darwin’s frozen raw foods on your review list can you please add it. I use their Zoologics beef, chicken or turkey, and vegetables and alternate between each flavor.
My dogs love all flavors and their coats have all improved. I have 7 dogs including a rescue mix breed. I started feeding raw in August and by November I could tell the difference, especially in my show Havanese. Keep up the good work. I recommend your website to all my dog friends so they can compare their dog food. Thank you for your wonderful and informative website.

I have been feeding bravo original blend for five years and my dogs have never been healthier or more excited for meal time. They no longer have allergies, no more ear infections, eyes and coat are shiney. They are also more focused. The best part is poop patrol, their stools are tiny and solid with very little smell. With four dogs, picking up less poop is always a plus.

why bravo balance the only formula shown in your rating. what about the formula? do you have an opinion on the original formula blend?

can a raw diet be fed to a dog with bladder problems?