Blue Buffalo Life Protection (Dry)


Rating: ★★★★☆

Blue Buffalo Life Protection Dog Food earns the Advisor’s second-highest tier rating of 4 stars.

The Blue Buffalo Life Protection Dog Food product line includes 23 dry recipes, four claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for growth (puppies) and 19 for adult maintenance.

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

  • Blue Buffalo Lamb and Oatmeal Puppy
  • Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Adult
  • Blue Buffalo Fish and Oatmeal Large Breed Adult
  • Blue Buffalo Lamb and Brown Rice Senior (2 stars)
  • Blue Buffalo Lamb and Brown Rice Adult (3.5 stars)
  • Blue Buffalo Fish and Sweet Potato Adult (3.5 stars)
  • Blue Buffalo Fish and Brown Rice Small Breed Adult
  • Blue Buffalo Lamb and Brown Rice Small Breed Adult
  • Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Senior (2 stars)
  • Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Small Bite Adult
  • Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Toy Breed Adult
  • Blue Buffalo Healthy Weight Chicken Small Breed Adult
  • Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Puppy (4.5 stars)
  • Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Small Breed Adult
  • Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Large Breed Adult
  • Blue Buffalo Healthy Weight Chicken and Brown Rice (3 stars)
  • Blue Buffalo Lamb and Brown Rice Large Breed Adult (3 stars)
  • Blue Buffalo Chicken and Oatmeal Small Breed Puppy (5 stars)
  • Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Small Bite Senior (2 stars)
  • Blue Buffalo Healthy Weight Chicken Large Breed Adult (3.5 stars)
  • Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Small Breed Senior (3.5 stars)
  • Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Large Breed Senior (3.5 stars)
  • Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Large Breed Puppy (4.5 stars)

Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Small Bite Adult recipe was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Small Bite Adult

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 27% | Fat = 16% | Carbs = 50%

Ingredients: Deboned chicken, chicken meal, brown rice, barley, oatmeal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), tomato pomace (source of lycopene), peas, flaxseed (source of omega 3 and 6 fatty acids), natural flavor, potatoes, alfalfa meal, calcium carbonate, salt, potassium chloride, potato starch, dried chicory root, dl-methionine, caramel, mixed tocopherols (a natural preservative), sweet potatoes, carrots, garlic, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, iron amino acid chelate, zinc amino acid chelate, zinc sulfate, Yucca schidigera extract, oil of rosemary, l-lysine, parsley, kelp, blueberries, cranberries, apples, spinach, blackberries, pomegranate, pumpkin, barley grass, turmeric, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), copper sulfate, copper amino acid chelate, glucosamine hydrochloride, nicotinic acid (vitamin B3), calcium pantothenate (vitamin B5), taurine, biotin (vitamin B7), manganese sulfate, vitamin A supplement, manganese amino acid chelate, l-carnitine, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), beta carotene, dried yeast, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation extract, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, dried Bacillus subtilis fermentation extract, folic acid (vitamin B9), calcium iodate, sodium selenite

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 5.6%

Red items indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
Guaranteed Analysis24%14%NA
Dry Matter Basis27%16%50%
Calorie Weighted Basis23%33%44%
Protein = 23% | Fat = 33% | Carbs = 44%

The first ingredient in this dog food is chicken. Although it is a quality item, raw chicken contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The second ingredient is chicken meal. Chicken meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh chicken.

The third ingredient is brown rice, a complex carbohydrate that (once cooked) can be fairly easy to digest. However, aside from its natural energy content, rice is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The fourth ingredient is barley. Barley is a starchy carbohydrate supplying fiber and other healthy nutrients. However, aside from its energy content, this cereal grain is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The fifth ingredient is oatmeal, a whole-grain product made from coarsely ground oats. Oatmeal is naturally rich in B-vitamins, dietary fiber and can be (depending upon its level of purity) gluten-free.

The sixth ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is obtained from rendering chicken, a process similar to making soup in which the fat itself is skimmed from the surface of the liquid.

Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid, an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing, chicken fat is actually a quality ingredient.

The seventh ingredient is tomato pomace. Tomato pomace is a controversial ingredient, a by-product remaining after processing tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.

Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content, while others scorn it as an inexpensive pet food filler.

Just the same, there’s probably not enough tomato pomace here to make much of a difference.

The eighth ingredient includes peas. Peas are a quality source of carbohydrates. And like all legumes, they’re rich in natural fiber.

However, peas contain about 25% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the meat content of this dog food.

The ninth ingredient is flaxseed, one of the best plant sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Provided they’ve first been ground into a meal, flax seeds are also rich in soluble fiber.

However, flaxseed contains about 19% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With six notable exceptions

First, this food includes alfalfa meal. Although alfalfa meal is high in plant protein (about 18%) and fiber (25%), this hay-family item is more commonly associated with horse feeds.

Next, chicory root is rich in inulin, a starch-like compound made up of repeating units of carbohydrates and found in certain roots and tubers.

Not only is inulin a natural source of soluble dietary fiber, it’s also a prebiotic used to promote the growth of healthy bacteria in a dog’s digestive tract.

In addition, caramel is a natural coloring agent made by caramelizing carbohydrates. It’s used by pet food manufacturers to impart a golden brown tint to the finished product.

However, the concentrated version of this ingredient commonly known as caramel coloring has been more recently considered controversial and found to cause cancer in laboratory animals.1

In any case, even though caramel is considered safe by the FDA, we’re always disappointed to find any added coloring in a pet food.

That’s because coloring is used to make the product more appealing to humans — not your dog. After all, do you really think your dog cares what color his food is?

Next, garlic can be a controversial item. Although many favor the ingredient for its claimed health benefits, garlic has been linked to Heinz body anemia in dogs.2

So, one must weigh the potential benefits of feeding garlic against its proven tendency to cause subclinical damage to the red blood cells of the animal.

In addition, dried yeast can be a controversial item. Dried yeast contains about 45% protein and is rich in other healthy nutrients.

Fans believe yeast repels fleas and supports the immune system.

Critics argue yeast ingredients can be linked to allergies. This may be true, but (like all allergies) only if your particular dog is allergic to the yeast itself.

What’s more, a vocal minority insist yeast can increase the risk of developing the life-threatening condition known as bloat. However, this is something we’ve not been able to scientifically verify.

In any case, unless your dog is specifically allergic to it, we feel yeast should be considered a nutritious addition.

And lastly, this food contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Blue Buffalo Life Protection Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Blue Buffalo Life Protection Dog Food looks like an above-average dry product.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 27%, a fat level of 16% and estimated carbohydrates of about 50%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 26% and a mean fat level of 14%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 52% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 53%.

Near-average protein. Below-average fat. And above-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

When you consider the protein-boosting effect of the flaxseed, peas, alfalfa meal and dried yeast, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a moderate amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Blue Buffalo Life Protection is a plant-based dry dog food using a moderate amount of chicken, turkey or fish meals as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 4 stars.

Highly recommended.

Please note certain recipes are sometimes given a higher or lower rating based upon our estimate of their total meat content and (when appropriate) their fat-to-protein ratios.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

The Dog Food Advisor does not test dog food products.

We rely almost entirely on the integrity of the information posted by each company on its website. As such, the accuracy of every review is directly dependent upon the quality of the test results from any specific batch of food a company chooses to publish.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, due to the biological uniqueness of every animal, none of our ratings are intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in a specific dietary response or health benefit for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

However, we do receive a fee from for each purchase made as a direct result of a referral from our website. This fee is a fixed dollar amount and has nothing to do with the size of an order or the brand selected for purchase.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

04/09/2015 Last Update

  1. Consumer Reports February 2014
  2. Yamato et al, Heinz Body hemolytic anemia with eccentrocytosis from ingestion of Chinese chive (Allium tuberosum) and garlic (Allium sativum) in a dog, Journal of the American Animal Hospital Association 41:68-73 (2005)
  • sd

    I did the same thing trying BB because my dog has allergies. It did not help at all. I am now switching to Merrick because it has less ingredients. So far so good

  • sd

    I tried BB for about a month with my golden retriever, but I found it was causing allergies. Now reading this review, I wish I had seen earlier that it has yeast and garlic in it. Why do they have to put these things in? We have just switched to Merrick dog food. That dog food has less ingredients, more protein, and 5 stars from the dogfoodadvisor. He loves it so far.

  • theBCnut

    My vet believes that she has had some dogs affected by getting too high a concentration of Life Bits.

  • Ken Thompson

    One thing I noticed with our dogs eating the Life Protection is that they at times overlooked the life bits . Also, in some of the bags we got, the life bits were not evenly mixed in the bag. Does that mean that the nutrient from the life bits are not being eaten every day in the same amount?
    Unfortunately, over the past years, our rescue dogs fed on Buffalo did not live past 11. They were on the senior chicken and rice. I don’t know what they were fed before they went into rescue and their health issues probably were not related to food. (quick developing cancer).
    Anyway, I think I will try another brand for our new rescue who is younger and more active. Losing three dogs in 15 months is difficult and hard not to blame the food they had in common.

  • Brown Wolf

    Blue Buffalo Fish and Sweet Potato Adult (3.5 stars)
    I just bought my dog this kind. I hope it helps her allergies and digestion.

  • Sloppy Joe

    I too switched my dog off of Blue Buffalo lamb and brown rice after that law suit came out. When you’re paying for a premium food, I expect to get what I pay for. I switched him to Berkely Jensen from BJ’s and it has a higher rating too than the BB I was giving him.

  • sandy

    It’s most likely to have a lower rating due to its protein content. The article above tells how dog food is rated on this website. Lamb isn’t automatically considered higher quality.

  • mahoraner niall

    how come the large breed lamb and brown rice in lower rated than the chicken large breed one? isn’t lamb higher quality?

  • Jessica

    I started feeding Blue about a month ago after switching from Purina. When I mixed the foods to transition, my dog started sorting out his food, putting the Purina on the floor and only eating Blue. He’d eat that little bit then sit and look at me to give him more. I like this food because of the Omega-3’s and other supplements/nutrients that Blue claims are added to it in addition to what I would consider a healthy balance of meat, plant, and grain for dogs. My dog loves the taste and it seems to have aided in his digestion. He’s a young dog, so he’s otherwise very healthy and I haven’t seen a change in that. In addition to the dog food content, the customer service with Blue is exceptionally friendly. I contacted them thanking them for their work and letting them know my dog loves the food, and they sent me a hand written thank you letter for my email along with a free, full bag of Blue training treats to help train my new dog. I, personally, am very impressed.

  • aquariangt

    Few things there: One, if your dog isn’t used to transition, that can be tough. Think about if you ate a very restricted diet and then suddenly incorporated some rich foods into it, you’d have digestive upset as well. I transition cold turkey every bag, but my dogs are very used to a rotational diet. Maybe try some Perfect Form or Probiotics to assist in your transition.
    There could be something (maybe chicken) in BB that’s bugging him.
    You also may want to try a transitional food. I don’t particularly think Blue is great, but it’s still far more nutrient dense food than Beneful. That is often the trouble with weight gain when switching foods-you are feeding a lot more calories if you’re feeding the same amount. I’d try Precise Foundations to transition him

  • Pitlove

    Hi Lauren- I would absolutely not put him back on Beneful. However, there is a possibility that your dog is having a reaction to something in Blue Buffalo.

    Read the ingredient panel of the Blue formula you fed and try to find a food that does not contain any of those ingredients and see if there is an improvement.

    You may also want to see a dermatologist that can do a consulation with you and an exam of your dogs skin to better access whether its food related or not. Your vet might be able to recommend one.

  • Lauren

    Hi. I have a shihapoo – I did have him on Beneful. I switched over to BB because of everything they were coming out with on Beneful. Since I have switch he has huge dry patches on his back. He scratches them and they bleed. Has anyone had this problem. He also gained 3 lbs within 2 months. The vet told me to put him back on the Beneful. BB is not working out for him. – Any suggustions?

  • M.E.W.

    I fed my 11-yr-old doxie Blue Buffalo Life Protection Healthy Weight for six years until it just didn’t agree with her anymore. In the past few months she began vomiting pretty frequently, usually in the early morning. It got worse for about a week or so before I switched her to grain-free Wellness Core Reduced Fat. For the past three weeks on the new food there has been absolutely no vomiting. My sister also has a basset hound that vomited frequently until switched to grain-free. I looked at BB’s grain-free food but I didn’t like their use of tapioca starch, not to mention all the news about BB mislabeling their foods (and doing nothing to compensate all the consumers who paid higher prices for their so-called premium food). I’m afraid that BB is becoming too big of a brand and thus the quality of the food will suffer. My PetSmart literally has two aisles filled with BB products. I’m staying away from BB. Wellness seems to be a great brand and is still affordable. Next I’ll try Simply Nourish. Both are easily available at PetSmart.

  • Pitlove

    The reviews are based on ingredients only and not the integrity or transparency of the company, so that information will not show up in the review. However, many people are aware of their issues now.

  • crystalb

    Need to update this with the latest information about how they admitted to deceiving people for a long time over their ingredients. I’ll never feed any Blue Buffalo again!

  • Skye G

    I fed my dog the BB puppy formula for a while when she was young. I had no major complaints. Not a bad food.

  • losul the liar

    Losuls credibility is the only thing that got shot down. Now everybody knows Losuls a LIAR ;>)

    This guy said it best

    “Your understanding seems quite limited, despite your obvious
    attempt to appear erudite and knowledgeable”

    “Your attempt to negate the entire
    substance of a detailed and comprehensive argument, is evidence of a
    singleminded intention to disrupt and vilify rather than intelligently
    discuss opposing ideas”

    “Nothing wrong with opposing ideas but to attempt
    to negate the whole argument by attacking just one small part of it
    with a fallacious, but loud, argument reveals intention of a veiled
    attack rather than an interest in understanding or sharing ideas.”

  • aimee

    In the “Report in brief” there is table listing HSI and PSI in mg/kg and the three species; dogs cats and horses.

    I would expect that the same form of garlic is the basis for all of those numbers across all species otherwise it should be specified.

    The summary reported a level of 15 mg/kg dried garlic powder in horses as unlikely to cause an adverse effect when fed on a long term basis.

    Since the number of 15 mg/kg is the number reported as the HSI in the table of the brief. I believe it to be the same form. In which case then all the numbers in the table should be based on dried garlic.

    Shawna wrote “The loss isn’t going to be to healthy red blood cells but rather to those ready to die anyway”

    and I responded “I think I understand where this is coming from “The loss isn’t going to
    be to healthy red blood cells but rather to those ready to die anyway.”
    but will you explain the mechanism behind this for me”

    I understood the physiology that older cells are more susceptible to oxidative challenge and thought she might be misapplying that information. This is why I said “I think I understand where this is coming from”. But to give her the benefit of the doubt I asked her to explain the mechanism behind her statement in case there was some different reason she had for making that statement.

  • aimee

    Not sure why the shortened turnover in greyhounds. perhaps genetic selection plays a role.

    When I made the comment about a person vomiting before ingesting enough garlic to cause anemia I was thinking in terms of a one time exposure. But I ‘d agree that smaller frequent exposures could result in anemia.

  • losul

    are you trying to “combine” summaries? What do you mean by “chart form”

    I don’t know why you would choose to use horses, HSI, and garlic powder? When we are talking about dogs, the words garlic powder, garlic oil, and the PSI under dogs in the summary, and I don’t see the dog HSI form of garlic supplement in the summary defined.

    Thanks for showing how you calculated equivalent powder to whole raw garlic.I’ll probaly calcualte it myself later when I get time, and will try to figure out how to calculate a garlic oil to raw whole garlic equivalent.


    You didn’t accept it as “basic physiology” until Shawna linked what you kept insisting she provide as proof . In fact I took it that you completely rejected the assertion until then. I can’t speak for Shawna, but somewhere I miss something where necessarily “she lept from that to her conclusion that they are the only cells affected.”

  • losul

    Aimee, I can’t say without my further looking back why those numbers (30-60) seem to have stuck in my mind. Somewhere down the line while researching garlic, somethings must’ve given me that impression, even if is a mostly false impression. I
    never before specifically researched a dog’s RBC turnover rate, and obviously what you presented is the more accurate. Probably there’s someone(s) who wants to make out
    some kind of devious intent in that also, but whatever….after all that before, I’m not sure how much I even care anymore.

    I can go with about 110 days RBC turnover for most dogs, (the median between the two research studies you presented) Hopefully the 110 number will now stick in my mind. I don’t think a 110 day figure changes the point I was trying to make.

    I did find it interesting in one of the research papers you presented;
    “non greyhound rbc lifespan was measured at 104.3 +/- .2.2 days, greyhounds were much shorter at 53.6 +/- 6.5 days.”
    I take that to mean that most breeds of dogs RBC lifespan is at 102 – 106.5 days, while greyhounds’ RBC lifespans are significantly shorter at 47 – 61 days.

    I was wondering if that has something to do with higher activity levels in

    I found the research paper titled;

    “Exercise, training and red blood cell turnover.”

    and in that paper;

    “Cycling, running and swimming have been shown to cause RBC damage.”


    “possibly an increased rate of RBC destruction with long term exercise.”

    hmmm. exercise has now been found to be unhealthy and maybe even toxic for me, I better quit…. but wait…

    “Providing RBC destruction does not exceed the rate of RBC production, no detrimental effect to athletic performance should occur. An increased rate of RBC turnover may be advantageous because young cells are more efficient in
    transporting oxygen.”

    I think that particular study kind of expresses the point I was trying to
    make, when I suggested;

    “who’s really to say that a slight increase of a few hours or even a few days of the normal RBC turnover is not a healthy thing anyway?”


    You say that vomiting would be a limiting factor for humans before reaching anemia. Garlic anemia seems to be a concern in Nigeria, where there is not much conventional medicine, and large amounts of garlic are evidently consumed for cures for things like malaria and parasites. The thing is malaria and parasites can cause anemia in themselves. If you want to see that study I can dig it up again, but I believe I already presented to you sometime time back on the forum side.

    I wonder if the poor dogs in that study would have puked too if they had been fed the huge amount of raw garlic orally. But instead they were administered all that garlicextract intragastrically, which I take to mean not orally, but by means of intubation, gavage, or gastronomy,

    whether anything else was given, i.e. anti-emetic, anesthetic, etc., don’t know, I didn’t see enough info in that study

    I’m not going to say or argue a whole lot more about garlic. It’s already a decided thing for me. I think it boils down to this, Dogs don’t require garlic, and they are almost certainly more susecptible than humans to any of garlics adverse effects. if a person does not feel comfortable about giving a dog garlic, then definitely, don’t. For my dog I believe the numerous health benefits exceed the
    risks, and I’m comfortable with it as an ongoing supplement for both him, myself, and my family.
    The phone number I was trying for N.A.P. yesterday was a apparently a non working or no longer working number 888 624 8373, and never got through. I talked to a fellow, a sales? rep, but he worked in the book warehouse and had limited info,
    so the N.A.P. D.C. headquarters got back to me today (now yesterday) and informed me that there is NOT an electronic or online version available. when asked why then the executive summary says i could purchase a print or an electronic version, she
    described it as a “blurb”, but that that particular book was not available online.

    She had no idea which libraries/institutions might possess a copy. I know that I won’t be spending $265.00 for it. I’ve already seen enough for my own purposes.

  • aimee

    Hi Storms Mom

    Honestly… It is because I didn’t want to take the time to find citations for something I know.

    Here are some sources for you:

    “The bone marrow constantly produces new RBC’s, since the life span of an RBC is only about 120 days”

    “Red cells are produced by the bone marrow and have an average life span of 110 to 120 days”

    Here is a research based paper in which non greyhound rbc lifespan was measured at 104.3 +/- .2.2 days, greyhounds were much shorter at 53.6 +/- 6.5 days

    Here is a mention in an abstract of a paper I have NOT read
    ” Because dog RBCs have survival characteristics that closely resemble
    those of human RBCs (ie, low random RBC loss, approximately 115-day life span)”

  • aimee

    When values are given in chart form like as seen here I’d expect that all numbers refer to the same form. The summary you posted reported the HSI in horses as being based on dried garlic powder.

    To calculate a fresh equivalent I used moisture contents from USDA database. Dried garlic powder is reported as 6.45% moisture and raw as 58.58% water.
    22 mg/kg dried garlic x .935 DM = 20.57 mgDM

    “y” mg fresh garlic X .414 DM = 20.57mgDM garlic Solving for “y” = 49.68 mg fresh garlic/kg

    USDA reports 1 clove as 3 grams.

    3000mg/clove divided by 49.68 mg/kg = 60.38 kg/clove x 2.2 lbs/kg= ~133 lbs/clove

  • Storm’s Mom

    Where did you read ~120 days? Why ask losul to produce evidence of the finding when you yourself did not do so for yours?

  • aimee


    What I got out of your link is that WGA when applied in vitro to a cell culture line originally taken from a colon tumor it altered the cells permeability and that WGA stimulates cytokines.

    From el doctors reference when garlic was put onto tissue in a living system it caused cell death.

    So yes toxicity is relative and all things are “toxic”

  • aimee

    Hi losul.

    I’m quite certain I read the avg RBC lifespan in the dog is ~120 days. Where did you read rbc turnover in 30-60 days?

    Sensitivity to oxidation is related to the number of sulfhydryl groups on the hemoglobin molecule. People have 2, dogs have 4, cats have 8.

    People aren’t immune to oxidative effects, but highly resistant compared to other species. IMO I think the amount of fresh garlic needed to cause anemia in a person would have to be massive and would cause the person to vomit thereby limiting exposure.

    Acetominophen in cats is a big no no. Dogs can be dosed safely but if overdosed have problems and people, even in massive overdoes don’t experience clinical oxidative damage to the rbcs.

  • aimee

    Hi el doctor,

    As evident from the pics garlic is caustic. One can find pics of skin burns as well which occur when people apply it to their skin for periods of time.

    I’ m not sure what to make of this as the delivery system doesn’t reflect how it usually is consumed. However medline reports “When taken by mouth, garlic can cause bad breath, a burning sensation
    in the mouth or stomach, heartburn, gas, nausea, vomiting, body odor,
    and diarrhea. These side effects are often worse with raw garlic.”

    So these irritant effects may also occur when consumed along with food.

    In regards to raw garlic equivalent without knowing the moisture content in the freeze dried prep it really is just a guess. If I assume 8 % moisture in the freeze dried and 58% in the fresh ( USDA database) I’d calculate the 60 mg freeze dried dose reflects ~132 mg fresh garlic.

  • Shawna

    I’ve seen this same thing suggested in humans. Hopefully nobody is silly enough to attempt to forcibly feed raw garlic on an empty stomach.

  • el doctor

    Hi aimee

    I was discussing the possible risks and benefits of feeding garlic to dogs with a Vet I sometimes refer clients to.

    While she wasn’t able to shine any light on the issue of red blood toxicity, she did tell me about a study in which a dehydrated, pulverized, raw garlic preparation was administered directly onto the stomach mucosa of 2 beagles in 3 different places. Different preparations were used on the remaining 4 dogs in the study

    The preparation used was half cellulose and half RGP (dehydrated raw powdered garlic). 40 mg of this preparation was directly sprayed onto the 3 different places of stomach mucosa, for a total of 120 mg, of which 60 mg was the (RGP) garlic and 60 mg was cellulose.


    “FIGURE 5 (first pic)
    Stomach mucosa 24 h after raw garlic powder (RGP) administration. Ulcer-like erosion of mucosa was noted.”

    “FIGURE 6 (second pic)
    Gross (a) and histologic (b, hematoxylin and eosin X50) appearance of the stomach 24 h after the raw garlic powder (RGP) administration. Erosion and infiltration of inflammatory cells were noted.”

    The total of 120 mg of preparation contained 60 mg of freeze dried powdered garlic. I figure that approx 240 mg of raw garlic was used to make the 60 mg of RGP preparation.

    That seems like a very small amount of raw garlic equivalent (240 mg) to cause so much damage to the stomach mucosa of those 2 beagles

    Please take a look and tell what you think and let me know if my calculations add up.;131/3/1109S#T1

    Thank you!

  • losul

    Actually I believe the words garlic oil/powder refer to the PSI number (56) rather than HSI.

    Can you tell how you calculated an equivalent?

    Raw whole garlic substitutions (powders, granulates, etc) can be found by googling those words. These generally refer to in terms of cooking recipes.

    Here is one;

    The more I have researched, the more comfortable I feel about supplementing my dog’s diet with garlic. For my dog, I feel the the benefits of theses small amounts should greatly exceed any risks. I won’t/can’t make that determination for anyone else’s dog.

    What Shawna found “Older RBCs are therefore most susceptible to oxidative damage” even more substantiated for me. I thought she was entirely correct in her assertions to that prior, but I think she found exactly what you repeatedly kept grilling her for. So for me, a clincher on that.

  • losul

    There are people who claim that garlic is quite toxic to humans also, even somne say so in any amount. Yet throughout the ages, people have been using garlic for it’s numerous benefits, without completely proven adverse events, or at least regarding hemolytic anemia, and as far as i know. But I have seen references that in large enough amounts, humans too are not immune to garlics oxidant effects on RBC’s, and yes even hemolytic anemia.

    If a mammals susceptibiltity to blood abbnormalities from garlic were to be defined as the anti-oxidant capacity of that particular mammals red blood cells, then it seems to make sense that cats are more susceptible than dogs, dogs may be more susceptible than horses, dogs and horse’s more susceptible than humans, etc.

    If the small amounts of garlic advised by vets, etc., and assuming that these small amounts even would produce any measureable abnormalities or of clinical or statistical significance ( I haven’t seen evidence of that) in a healthy dog, who’s really to say that a slight increase of a few hours or even a few days of the normal RBC turnover is not a healthy thing anyway? I think the consensus I’ve seen is normal complete RBC turnover of 30 to 60 days in a dog.

    I agree that to further understand the NRC’s report, the chapter from the book needs to be read. I didn’t at first even realize the report was an entire book. I’ve been attempting to call National Academics Press. today to find out more, whether just the relevant chapter can be purchased in an electronic version, etc., how much, etc. So far all I get is a busy signal.

  • Shawna

    It’s apparently available as an eBook through some universities.

    Wheat germ agglutinin, from any products containing whole wheat, is “toxic” to individual cells too but you never mention that and if memory serves are completely fine with the inclusion of whole wheat or even wheat germ in pet foods.

  • aimee

    I agree older cells are more susceptible but that is not the same as only ones affected, healthy cells can be affected as well. I see your statement as incorrect.

    In regards to the quote ” There is a long history of safe use” this is in direct reference to the HSI number posted which seems to be a much lower dose the commonly recommended.

    The additional information losal linked to reports that the HSI refers to powder or oil and not fresh garlic as I had assumed based on the information given.

    If I calculate based on powder I get about one 3 gram clove/138 lbs as being the HSI use amount. I don’t know how to calculate oil into fresh garlic or even if the HSI refers to oil or powder.

    I’m not sure what research you linked to that you are referring to. There really isn’t much out there on which to base a “safe” level. For now I think the HSI is reasonable start.

    I’m very curious as to what this all means and hope to be able to read the original source.

  • aimee

    I still consider garlic toxic in any amount when viewed from the cellular level, but as I said in very small amounts is not toxic to the organism as a whole.

    It isn’t clear to me if the presumed safe intake value (PSI) is a best guess to be safe on a daily or long term basis whereas the HSI is a long term basis with “no apparent ill effects”

    To understand this better I really think I need to read the chapter from the book.

  • Shawna

    It wouldn’t actually be useless but not as health promoting as when eaten/fed, grated/crushed etc and raw. Cooked garlic still has inulin and FOS which are prebiotics that feed the good bacteria in our guts.

    Many will say that garlic doesn’t help with fleas but I don’t think that is 100% accurate. Fleas have multiple ways of finding their victims, carbon dioxide from exhaled breath is one way. Colorado State University Extension Office used to have an article discussing garlic’s benefit against mosquitoes as it disguises the carbon dioxide being exhaled which is how mosquitoes find their victims (the page is no longer available). If it works against mosquitoes, it surely works the same on fleas. That said, fleas use other means to find their victims as well. I personally think there are other benefits of garlic for mosquito and flea repellants but no research on it so it is just my opinion. :)

  • Pitlove

    I have heard good and bad things about it. More good than bad though. I like the idea of it repelling fleas if it really does work for that.

  • Billy Bennet

    Apology accepted

  • Shawna

    No, it’s my understanding cooking garlic does not lessen the toxicity of the garlic. It does however lessen the antimicrobial benefits if you are wanting it for that purpose.

  • losul

    Let me say this much, I realize that I am guilty of something, and I completely regret what I first said. I can see now that I am guilty of some
    extravagandizing, getting carried away, not fully knowing what i was talking about at the time, and some of my own misunderstanding. I did and still do believe that I had read a bit of the newer material prior (newer than that summary pdf that i had first presented.)

    It’s not anywhere near to ANYTHING that you’ve made it out to be, i wouldn’t EVER purposely lie or deceive, to try to unduly influence anyone in an important issue.
    I have to be able to live with myself. I don’t see what I said as any kind of material issue, or opinion changing thing, nevertheless I should not have said in those words, without having the definite facts, and I should, and will be more careful in the future.

    If what I said, somehow affected anyone in any kind of material way, then I do apologize.

  • Pitlove

    So curiously, I think you and El Doctor have been talking about raw garlic yes/no? If you are and the garlic in dog food would be cooked twice over does the toxicity, or lack there of or whatever we decided garlic does, lessen because of that fact?

  • Billy Bennet

    “The full NRC supplement safety report is finally out too, but I haven’t gotten to read very much on it yet!!”

    ann g asked you “What book do you mean? I’ve had Safety of Dietary Supplements for Horses, Dogs, and Cats since it came out in 2008.”

    You answeered “”What I meant was, the openbook/online version only recently became available I believe, and I only read a small part of it.”

    What you meant was the online/openbook version of the “full supplement safety report” just came out and you only read a small part of it cause it’s a book not a 4 page summary

    You spun a story that wasn’t true and you got caught.

  • Crazy4cats

    Yep. Double hmm….

  • Shawna

    I can’t speak for losul but you are right, I have known him for a long time and I have never once known him to lie about anything. Is it possible he misinterpreted something? Sure. Is it possible he is lying? I guess, maybe. Losul has not yet given his side and may actually have found it — he found the original article after all.

    After all this hostility though, I kinda doubt he’s even going to want to engage anymore. Which brings me to the question, why are you exhibiting the hostility you are – over a book? You’ve never been on before, NO Discus activity at all until now and then to attack someone. I get calling people out on their inaccuracies. It just happened to me several times this week. But those calling me out, on something that actually mattered to the conversation, weren’t hostile about it.

  • Shawna

    I’m not sure Ann? I tried my local library but I’m not currently a member so wasn’t able to log in to see if they had it. My guess would be more likely in Universities though.

    My niece goes to University of Nebraska in Lincoln but she’s interning in Minnesota over the summer. If someone finds it, please let me know… I did download the extended summary version which losul mentioned. You both are right, it specifically states “garlic powder” and “garlic oil”.

    How did your boss feel about you losing a $300 (assuming after taxes) book. LOL Mine would have a heart attack I’m sure. :)

  • DogFoodie

    Yep. Hmm…

  • losul

    That’s a real funny one, talk about tryin too switch the focus!!

    I’m gone to try to find out, but lets put the burden on you for a change, you show me were that the currently available summary was available and for
    free in 2008-2009. The one online and the one I already had shown the board ARE different. Again, I NEVER said there was a free version., But I WAS thinking more of it might be free.

  • losul

    Well it’s deja vu all over again, isn’t it.. You’re very angry because the misguided “garlic is toxic in any amount” statement got shot down. You see, I was already expecting a setup and attack of this sort. I already saw it coming.

    I had the summary pdf that i first posted here and I said it was from 2008, and I hadn’t even looked at site for awhile. It was my understanding (and still is) that more info, and I never said it was free, was now available an online. There’s not as much free apparently yet, than I first thought, but There IS more info in that summary online now, one part of that is two additional words, garlic oil and garlic powder right in a key area, page 4.

    I don’t think that current summary has been there ever since 2008. Maybe it’s not from 2015, but If you click on the terms and conditions on one of those summary pages, it says copyright 2014. And I never said it was going to be free. I gave you what I had, you’ll just have to pay if you want to see more. And there IS an electronic version available now. I believe as time goes by, more free material is usually released on these books, but I’ll end up finding out how all this works.

    “You put this in to make it look like you have something you don’t. The free “1st 12 pages (front matter)” you mentioned today are the acknowlegements the table of contents and the index. Thats how you know whats on pages 135-142″

    Of course that’s how I know, I even told you to read those first pages and those includes the table of contents. I NEVER said I had the book.

    “Your story is false, there’s no online/openbook free version of the book like you claimed yesterday.”

    I didn’t ever claim such that there was a free version, and I used the words “I believe”

    Lastly, if I’m wrong at all, then so be it. It doesn’t change the findings and the fact that YOU’RE very wrong.

  • Ann G

    I clicked the link, all I found was the hardcover for $295 and a list of libraries that had the hardcover. Did I miss the ebook version? I would like to read the book again, the last time I saw my book was five or six years ago.

  • Ann G

    Your welcome:)

  • Billy Bennet

    You can try to switch the focus away from losul and the story he made up thats what friends do but you can’t change what he said

    “The full NRC supplement safety report is finally out too, but I haven’t gotten to read very much on it yet!!”

    “What I meant was, the openbook/online version only recently became
    available I believe, and I only read a small part of it. I didn’t pay
    the hefty sum for a hardcover”

    The online report came out in 20008-2009 not recently. there is no free online/openbook version. He hasn’t read much of it cause he doesn’t have it. Now he’s trying desperatly to cover it up. Blame me if you like I got big shoulders ;]


  • Shawna

    Your posting style is very familiar. Where have I seen that?

  • Billy Bennet

    I dont know why you lied yesterday or why your desperately trying to weave your way out of it today so i’ll just present the facts and not try to figure you out.

    Your story yesterday was

    “The full NRC supplement safety report is finally out too, but I haven’t gotten to read very much on it yet!!”

    That report came out as a book in 2008 not recently

    “What I meant was, the openbook/online version only recently became
    available I believe, and I only read a small part of it. I didn’t pay the hefty sum for a hardcover”

    There’s no free online/openbook version. The enhanced summary you linked to today was available in early 2009. The copyright at the bottom of the page is on every page of the website!!!! It’s the copyright for the website not the book summary!!!!! and the “Electronic version ” you highlighted like it helps you out is not free!!!!

    You made stuff up yesterday and now your trying to talk your way out of it by going to the publishers website and showing a free summary and a free look at the books table of contents acknowledgements and index which have been there since 2009.

    “It’s not apparent to me whether there are additional free downloads available,”

    The free download is the summary not the book. Theres no free download of the book period

    “But I will be most interested in all of Chapter 8 which is dedicated to
    garlic, and pages 135-142 of chapter 8, dedicated to description of garlic.”

    You put this in to make it look like you have something you don’t. The free “1st 12 pages (front matter)” you mentioned today are the acknowlegements the table of contents and the index. Thats how you know whats on pages 135-142

    Your story is false, there’s no online/openbook free version of the book like you claimed yesterday. Theres only a free summary and a free look at the front pages of the book that are available since 2009.

    If i were you I would drop this. It’s your words not mine that prove you lied!!!!

  • Shawna

    For the very same reason that the AVMA and such are suggesting the avoidance of raw diets — (in my opinion) it’s cutting into somebodies pockets and they don’t like it. :)

  • Shawna

    Thank you very very much Ann G for the clarification!! Very much appreciated!

  • losul

    It’s really not that hard to do with some effort, but I’ll spell it out. Anyone can do this, but it will prob, ask you at some point to provide your EM and agree to terms and conditions. go to type name of book in searchbox. click read online. That will put you in the 1st 12 pages (front matter). read the pages if you want. scroll to the bottom and notice copyright 2015. click on summary. this has a little more detail than the summary I previously linked. On page 4, it defines the forms of garlic from which they appeared to have formed their determination of PSI for dogs (it WASN’T raw whole garlic)

    If you want to put a little more effort into it, you can figure out for yourself how to download the Free Executive Summary pdf to your computer, I did that today. On that download it states you may purchase a print or Electronic version of the book. you would likely have to sign up for MYNAP to purchase the electronic version.

    It’s not apparent to me whether there are additional free downloads available, or increased access, by signing up for MYNAP or not, I didn’t try yet, it’s not at ALL a priority for me right now. I’m quite happy with the numbers.

    But I will be most interested in all of Chapter 8 which is dedicated to garlic, and pages 135-142 of chapter 8, dedicated to description of garlic.

  • Billy Bennet

    I don’t know what losul’s talking about. There is no openbook/online
    version of the book Safety of Dietary Supplements for Horses, Dogs, and

  • Ann G

    I didn’t pay the hefty sum either:) I got a copy from my boss.

    “What I meant was, the openbook/online version only recently became available I believe, and I only read a small part of it. I didn’t pay
    the hefty sum for a hardcover

    I’ll find it again when I get the time.”

    I hope you find the time real soon, hint hint.

  • Ann G

    I’m with you 1000% on this:) I work with a supplement company BTW. We have a garlic extract for dogs with a dosage of 100 mg for every 10 pounds. We are within the HSI set in the safety report so no worries there.

    Recently I was at a new pet store and I dropped off some samples and literature for our garlic product. We quote the same report your talking about were they give the dogs garlic equal to 5 grams per kilogram and I explain how thats such a huge amount and the dogs still didn’t get anemia.

    I go back the next day to take his order and he catches me off guard. He asks me why if garlic is safe in small amounts the guys who did that study say you shouldn’t give garlic to dogs period.

    I told him I wasn’t aware of that and I would get back to him this afternoon with an answer. Sure enough I find the study and this is what the reasearchers conclude

    “Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—The constituents of garlic have the potential to oxidize erythrocyte membranes and hemoglobin, inducing hemolysis associated with the appearance of eccentrocytes in dogs. Thus, foods containing garlic should not be fed to dogs. ”

    Needless to say I didn’t make the sale:(

    Why do think those study guys recommend against feeding garlic to dogs anyway?

  • losul

    What I meant was, the openbook/online version only recently became available I believe, and I only read a small part of it. I didn’t the pay hefty sum for a hardcover

    I’ll find it again when I get the time.

    Be sure to come back and let us know if and when you find yours!!!!

  • Ann G

    “The full NRC supplement safety report is finally out too, but I haven’t gotten to read very much on it yet!!”

    What book do you mean? I’ve had Safety of Dietary Supplements for Horses, Dogs, and Cats since it came out in 2008.

  • Ann G

    I have the book Safety of Dietary Supplements for Horses, Dogs, and Cats and the garlic used was a supplement. Itried to find the book before I wrote this but no luck yet:(

  • losul

    I’ve never seen raw whole garlic sold as a supplement, have you? and the report was specifically about supplements. I don’t think the FDA cares about people buying garlic at the grocery store and using however they see fit.

  • Bobby dog

    Mmmmmmm, it was delicious!!! Broccoli, sugar snap peas, carrots, orange peppers, garlic, and olive oil.

  • Crazy4dogs

    And some extra virgin olive oil :)

  • losul

    Yummm. Did I lead you into temptation? Go ahead and be naughty, lol.

  • Bobby dog

    I was going to behave myself and steam some vegetables for dinner this evening. After seeing your pic I am thinking veggies sautéed with lots of garlic!

  • losul

    “Older RBCs are therefore most susceptible to oxidative damage.” Very nice find Shawna!!

  • losul

    thnx Shawna 😉

  • losul

    Aimee y/w.

    Unfortunately, NRC didn’t make it exactly clear how to interpret the numbers in the summary. Perhaps it’s explained further in the full report.

    Going by the NRC guidelines for HSI and PSI, and for a 120lb dog, I came up with similar numbers- HSI = 1.2 grams and PSI = 3 grams. The garlic I use weighs about 3.5 grams each clove. Most common garlic I’ve seen is smaller, i would consider mine to be extra large or even jumbo. I’ve used elephant garlic before that might have cloves weighing 6 grams, but that is not a true garlic, as is much milder.

    If NRC is giving the numbers based on raw whole garlic, then yes, there are some reccomendations for supplementing a little higher than the PSI. I don’t see the the NRC guidelines as miniscule or insignificant though anyway, and it’s a far cry from stating that garlic is toxic in any amount.

    Going by their guidelines for PSI, and if assuming they are referring to raw whole garlic equivalent, I would still use about 7 grams/week or 2 extra large cloves for my 38 pounder. For the last 5/6 months, I’ve been giving him about 10 grams/week, or 3 extra large cloves/week, not for anything in particular, just for general health maintenance. I don’t even see that as really significantly more than than the NRC PSI, but it’s the most I will consider for regular usage for my dog as of now.

    I wonder how NRC came up with the 22 number for HSI, and their “long history of safe usage” words, it makes me think it could be the amount traditionally, commonly and regularly used for flavoring many dog foods.

    Anyway, you’ve seemed to have backed off your original “all amounts are toxic stance” quite a bit.

    I found it interesting that the expert cited by el, also stated this; “Concurrent treatment with xenobiotics, drugs, or dietary factors that induce erythrocyte oxidative injury (e.g. propofol, propylene glycol, dl-methionine, sulfonamides, sulfapyridine, large doses of vitamin K3, benzocaine) or diminish erythrocyte oxidative defenses (e.g. acetaminophen) is likely to increase an animal’s susceptibility to Allium species toxicosis.” I added the bold, and will clarify K3 is menadione. Many of us know which low grade dog foods have these combinations of substances.

    There’s an interesting article and commentary on this site, I’ve made a few posts there;

    Here’s a pic i posted there showing what the researchers would have given my dog in one day x 7 days. If the pic doesn’t work you can find it on the petguide site, scrolling down through the comments.

  • Shawna

    I’m not sure why we are still having this conversation. The article doesn’t clearly identify whole garlic or extract but my interpretation is extract while yours is not. Each person will have to decide for themselves.

    The University of Georgia, College of Veterinary Medicine
    “Red blood cells have metabolic antioxidant pathways that protect against ongoing oxidative processes and the production of HzB. The hexose monophosphate pathway produces reduced glutathione, a free radical scavenger that binds to reactive oxygen species before they can harm the cell and reduces disulfide bonds induced by oxidant stress. The methemoglobin reductase pathway reduces metHb to oxyHb, restoring the RBC’s oxygen-carrying capacity.4 As red blood cells are anucleate and lack the ability to regenerate enzymes, these protective mechanisms are exhausted as the cell ages. Older RBCs are therefore most susceptible to oxidative damage.” Edit — Oops, forgot the link

    Since we are (I am) SPECIFICALLY discussing “appropriate amounts” of garlic (therefore small amounts, based on size of pet, given three to four times per week) as you yourself stated, a small amount of garlic equals a small amount of red blood cell loss. The “older” cells will be affected with appropriate use of garlic.

    What I “like to report as safe”, really aimee? So you are saying the research I’ve linked is incorrect? AND let’s not forget that the authors of the articles themselves specifically state – and I quote “*There is a long history of safe use.” Maybe it is you who is unwilling to look at the evidence objectively?

  • aimee

    Hi Shawna,

    The article did define dietary supplement

    “Animal dietary supplements are defined as any substance for oral
    consumption by horses, dogs, or cats, whether in/on feed or offered separately, intended for specific benefit to the animal by means other than provision of nutrients….”

    Fresh whole garlic fits quite well within the definition. It needn’t be a processed pill to be considered a dietary supplement as dietary supplement is defined as any substance for oral consumption”

    Food additive isn’t defined in the article however the FDA definition is ” “any substance the intended use of which results or may reasonably be
    expected to result — directly or indirectly — in its becoming a
    component or otherwise affecting the characteristics of any food…..Direct food additives are those that are added to a food for a specific purpose in that food. For example, xanthan gum -….Indirect food additives are those that become part of the food in trace amounts due to its packaging, storage or other handling.”

    Fresh whole garlic does not fit well into that definition as the purpose of adding garlic to food isn’t to change the food’s characteristics nor do you add garlic to the diet simply to become part of the diet.

    Of the three supplements the text accompanying the picture explains exactly what is being measured. With lutein it is explained that it is “abundant in” plants. Clearly lutein is not plant material as lutein is a specific name for a specific compound.

    For Evening Primrose Oil, again the reader knows the dosing isn’t based on whole plant because it is described as being “found in” the plant and it is clear the oil is what is being referred to.

    Then we come to garlic which is described as being “used in the diet of humans for centuries” and its use described in “Ancient medical texts” Are you saying back in ancient Rome they had processed garlic pills”?

    There really is no reason to read this as anything other than what it is “Garlic” pure and simple, not garlic powder or garlic extract or garlic oil or garlic capsules or any number of forms processed garlic supplements come in just plain simple cloves of garlic

    I think the reason you are rejecting that the authors are referring to whole garlic is simply because the safe dosing levels are much lower than what you like to report as safe.: )

    Ok so explain to me why you think only older rbc’s which are close to the natural end of life are affected by garlic.

    I’m a bit stymied by that statement, that the loss isn’t going to be any “healthy red blood cells”. . In this report the dog dropped its rbc volume probably by about 1/2 after eating garlic. I doubt very very much that those were all cells that were at the end of their natural life.

    Maybe I’m not understanding what you are saying.

  • aimee

    Hi Shawna,

    Would it help you to remember the difference between in vivo and in vitro if you think about in vitro in the context of assisted reproduction… “in vitro fertilization”.

  • el doctor

    Hi Shawna

    Thank you for your honesty!!! It’s a GREAT quality of yours.

    I believe this particular conversation has run its course for now as a lot of evidence has been presented on both sides of the debate and any more could become confusing instead of helpful.

    I just hope these comments help people make an informed decision on whether or not to feed their dogs garlic!!!.

  • Shawna

    Oops, missed the “sometimes confuse things….different types of anemia”.

    Nope, didn’t confuse things there. I understand the difference between HA and AIHA (one being an autoimmune response). I was just dead wrong on what triggered the immune response. I thought that it was the cell death that triggered the response when in fact it is the attachment of the antigen to the living red blood cell that causes the immune system to attack the living and healthy red blood cells.

  • Shawna

    I have to admit that I almost always mix up in vitro and in vivo and most times look it up because of that. This time I did not. I’m also really bad with math. I didn’t purposefully take “liberties” but when called out I realized I could have worded that better. If you read many of my posts you will come across more instances where I could have worded things better.

    I appreciate your comment and would hope that anyone take the advice and opinions of others with a grain of salt without first digging deeper. If science can’t agree on topics then how can we get it all right (fats, eggs, cholesterol etc). I evolve and learn almost daily and I assume most others do as well.

  • aquariangt

    Uh, so are you telling me everything you hear, or read, or are told you automatically take and hold onto? Veterinary medicine has a lot of opposing viewpoints and conflicting advice. People then will do their own research and find the best route for them. This would mean that you are going to be agreeing with some vets, and disagreeing with others on a wide variety of topics. If someone is arguing for something, they are going to link research that supports that. If someone is arguing against something, they will link research that supports that. Including Aimee. I’m a bit confused on your point here, because that’s how discussions…and people….work

  • el doctor

    You also take “liberties” in the facts you post and modify them to better suit your argument.

    “I must admit that I took a bit of liberty with “ready to die anyway”. I should have stated “older and less healthy”.”

    And you sometimes confuse things like “in vitro” and “in vivo” and the different types of anemia that garlic and vaccines can cause.

    So even though I respect and admire your opinions, one must take them with a grain of salt.

  • Shawna

    I wouldn’t say “just like” me. I use actual research over opinion based articles most of the time. Just so happens that the research I site matches my personal opinion.