Beneful Dog Food (Dry)

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Rating: ★★☆☆☆

Purina Beneful Dog Food receives the Advisor’s second-lowest tier rating of 2 stars.

The Purina Beneful product line includes eight dry dog foods, seven claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for adult maintenance and one for growth (puppies).

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

  • Beneful Playful Life
  • Beneful Healthy Puppy
  • Beneful Healthy Weight
  • Beneful Originals with Real Beef
  • Beneful IncrediBites with Real Beef
  • Beneful Originals with Real Salmon
  • Beneful Originals with Real Chicken
  • Beneful IncrediBites with Real Chicken

Purina Beneful IncrediBites with Real Chicken was selected to represent the other products in the line for this review.

Purina Beneful IncrediBites with Real Chicken

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 29% | Fat = 14% | Carbs = 49%

Ingredients: Chicken, whole grain corn, barley, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, rice, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols, soybean meal, poultry by-product meal, glycerin, egg and chicken flavor, calcium carbonate, salt, mono and dicalcium phosphate, oat meal, poultry and pork digest, potassium chloride, dried carrots, dried sweet potatoes, dried spinach, vitamins [vitamin E supplement, niacin, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin D3 supplement, riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), menadione sodium bisulfite (vitamin K), folic acid, biotin], minerals [zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], choline chloride, yellow 6, l-lysine monohydrochloride, yellow 5, red 40, blue 2, garlic oil

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 4.7%

Red items indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis25%12%NA
Dry Matter Basis29%14%49%
Calorie Weighted Basis26%30%44%
Protein = 26% | Fat = 30% | Carbs = 44%

The first ingredient in this dog food is chicken. Although it is a quality item, raw chicken contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The second ingredient is corn. Corn is an inexpensive and controversial cereal grain. And aside from its energy content, this grain is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

For this reason, we do not consider corn a preferred component in any dog food.

The third ingredient is barley. Barley is a starchy carbohydrate supplying fiber and other healthy nutrients. However, aside from its energy content, this cereal grain is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The fourth ingredient is chicken by-product meal, a dry rendered product of slaughterhouse waste. It’s made from what’s left of a slaughtered chicken after all the prime cuts have been removed.

In addition to organs (the nourishing part), this stuff can contain almost anything — feet, beaks, undeveloped eggs — anything except feathers.

On the brighter side, by-product meals are meat concentrates and contain nearly 300% more protein than fresh chicken.

In any case, although this item contains all the amino acids a dog needs, we consider chicken by-products an inexpensive, lower quality ingredient.

The fifth ingredient is corn gluten meal. Gluten is the rubbery residue remaining once corn has had most of its starchy carbohydrate washed out of it.

Although corn gluten meal contains 60% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

And less costly plant-based products like this can notably boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The sixth ingredient is wheat. Wheat is another cereal grain and subject to the same issues as corn (previously discussed).

The seventh ingredient is rice. Is this whole grain rice, brown rice or white rice? Since the word “rice” doesn’t tell us much, it’s impossible to judge the quality of this item.

The eighth ingredient is beef tallow, a fatty by-product of beef rendering. Tallow is high in saturated fats. However, this fat is typically associated with lower quality pet foods.

The ninth ingredient is soybean meal, a by-product of soybean oil production more commonly found in farm animal feeds.

Although soybean meal contains 48% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

And less costly plant-based products like this can notably boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The next item is poultry by-product meal, a dry rendered product of slaughterhouse waste. It’s made from what’s left of slaughtered poultry after all the prime cuts have been removed.

In addition to organs (the nourishing part), this stuff can contain almost anything — feet, beaks, undeveloped eggs — anything except quality skeletal muscle (real meat).

We consider poultry by-products slightly lower in quality than a single-species ingredient (like chicken by-products).

On the brighter side, by-product meals are meat concentrates and contain nearly 300% more protein than fresh poultry.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With seven notable exceptions

First, we find glycerin. Glycerin is used in the food industry as a natural sweetener and as a humectant to help preserve the moisture content of a product.

Next, we note the use of poultry and pork digest. A digest is a chemically hydrolyzed brew of slaughterhouse waste. Animal digests are usually sprayed onto the surface of a dry dog food to improve its taste.

In addition, garlic oil can be a controversial item. Although many favor the ingredient for its claimed health benefits, garlic has been linked to Heinz body anemia in dogs.1

So, one must weigh the potential benefits of feeding garlic against its proven tendency to cause subclinical damage to the red blood cells of the animal.

Next, we find no mention of probiotics, friendly bacteria applied to the surface of the kibble after processing to help with digestion.

Additionally, we’re always disappointed to find artificial coloring in any pet food. That’s because coloring is used to make the product more appealing to humans — not your dog. After all, do you really think your dog cares what color his kibble is?

We also note the minerals listed here do not appear to be chelated. And that can make them more difficult to absorb. Non-chelated minerals are usually associated with lower quality dog foods.

And lastly, this food contains menadione, a controversial form of vitamin K linked to liver toxicity, allergies and the abnormal break-down of red blood cells.

Since vitamin K isn’t required by AAFCO in either of its dog food nutrient profiles, we question the use of this substance in any canine formulation.

Purina Beneful Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Purina Beneful Dog Food looks like a below-average dry product.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 31%, a fat level of 16% and estimated carbohydrates of about 45%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 30% and a mean fat level of 14%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 48% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 47%.

Near-average protein. Below-average fat. And near-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

When you consider the protein-boosting effect of the corn gluten meal and soybean meal, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a moderate amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Purina Beneful is a plant-based dry dog food using a moderate amount of chicken by-product meal as its main source of animal protein, thus earning the brand 2 stars.

Not recommended.

Please note certain recipes are sometimes given a higher or lower rating based upon our estimate of their total meat content and (when appropriate) their fat-to-protein ratios.

Purina Dog Food
Recall History

The following list (if present) includes all dog food recalls since 2009 directly related to this product line. If there are no recalls listed in this section, we have not yet reported any events.

You can view a complete list of all dog food recalls sorted by date. Or view the same list sorted alphabetically by brand.

To learn why our ratings have nothing to do with a product’s recall history, please visit our Dog Food Recalls FAQ page.

Get free dog food recall alerts sent to you by email. Subscribe to The Advisor’s recall notification list.

Dog Food Coupons
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A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

The Dog Food Advisor does not test dog food products.

We rely almost entirely on the integrity of the information posted by each company on its website. As such, the accuracy of every review is directly dependent upon the quality of the test results from any specific batch of food a company chooses to publish.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, due to the biological uniqueness of every animal, none of our ratings are intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in a specific dietary response or health benefit for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

However, we do receive a fee from Chewy.com for each purchase made as a direct result of a referral from our website. This fee is a fixed dollar amount and has nothing to do with the size of an order or the brand selected for purchase.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

06/28/2016 Last Update

  1. Yamato et al, Heinz Body hemolytic anemia with eccentrocytosis from ingestion of Chinese chive (Allium tuberosum) and garlic (Allium sativum) in a dog, Journal of the American Animal Hospital Association 41:68-73 (2005)
  • FDT

    I gave my dog dry beneful he started to vomit a few minutes after eating this crap food. The next day he started wobbling and could barely walk. Then he started having seizures, it was so heartbreaking, and sad to watch. I immediately took him to the vet. Which cost me 300 dollars, the vet said if i hadn’t took him earlier he couldve died. They put him on I.V and kept him overnight. Thank god he survived this, my advice. DO NOT FEED YOUR DOG THIS CRAP. I have contacted purina and all they can say is “we stand by our food”. I am so angry right now I’m on here to just let everyone know about this. Thanks for reading

  • disqus_KcQ8ov

    I made a comment but they thought it was spam. Anyway, storage mites and dust mites are all in the same family and tend to co-exist (they are microscopic and are everywhere). The only thing that helped my dog was ASIT (allergen specific immunotherapy).
    Go to the Forums section of this site and search “allergies”
    Consider seeing a dermatologist.

  • Janet Kudravetz

    My daughter’s dog as a storage mite allergy. He’s currently on a prescription dry food, but when we transition him we’re concerned about it starting all over again. I just joined this site to do some research on the cleanest facilities, freshest ingredients, etc., but would love to hear from anyone who’s had experience with this. I’m looking at Merrick or Nature’s Variety Instinct, or switching to canned if necessary. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

  • mahoraner

    Really the only difference from the old beneful to the “new” beneful is the chicken as the first ingredient, And to be honest, i think the only reason why they did that is because most dog owners (that i know), they just look at the first ingredient and think “oooh! chicken’s the first ingredient! this must be good,” or “oooh, corn is the first ingredient, this must be bad” (if they even care to read the ingredients, or dont get distracted by the “pretty” package)
    people need to understand that a dog food label could have chicken as the first ingredient, and sugar, by-products, dyes, etc as the next.

    so what im saying is “dont judge a book by its cover” (dont judge the quality of a dog food by the label, or the first ingredient)

  • Crazy4dogs

    Thanks for sharing! That was great! πŸ™‚

  • GSDsForever

    lol, labs.

    The last time I recall someone on DFA denouncing another food as terrible and RC as THE BEST (how come it always seems to go this way?), someone claimed that another food, this time super premium, made ALL her dog’s fur fall out in 48 hrs (or something like that). And, you know, RC saved the day!

    Of course, I remain humbly fascinated and entertained by things like RC’s breeds specific line.

    And just when I was mulling over whether the GSD one was the answer to all our prayers in the breed fancy, after a very, very zealous Petsmart RC sales rep insisted it was so, I see here

    http://truthaboutpetfood.com/breed-specific-nutrition/

    that whatever reservations I might have for my breed’s magic formula . . . apparently life really sucks for you if you are a Bulldog living in the UK on RC breed specific. Fascinating.

  • aimee

    Yup

  • Shawna

    We’ll have to agree to disagree.

  • aimee

    Hi Shawna,
    The discussion started when you asked if my daughter ingested table sugar, which is sucrose, which is C12H22O11 at every meal and I said yes pretty much so. I indicated that sometimes sucrose, C12H22O11, is a component of baked goods and sometimes it is a component of fruits or vegetables.

    Crazt4dogs replied “”You are again trying to compare refined (table) sugar to natural sugar
    that occurs in fruits and vegetables. They are not nutritionallly(sic) equal”

    The sentence structure used clearly indicates that what was being said was that table sugar, which is sucrose, which is C12H22O11 is nutritionally different from the same sugar molecule, C12H22O11 that can be found in fruits and vegetables.

    It was from then on an enigma as Crazy4dogs said sucrose, C12H22O11 from a bag or C12H22O11 from fruit were processed the same way by the body while at the same time clearly stating the they were nutritionally different.

    Whenever asked why there would be a nutritional difference between C12H22O11 from a bag or C12H22O11 from fruit. Crazy4dogs would compare C12H22O11 to an item containing C12H22O11.

  • Shawna

    Hi aimee,

    I did not interpret C4d’s posts the same as you. It has actually been quite clear to me that she was discussing whole food versus molecule from the very first post. To further support my reasons for thinking that she wrote in the second comment to you on this thread seven days ago “I said earlier that refined sugar vs natural sugar are processed by the body the same way.”

    Then she quotes a nutritionist “”Comparing the Nutrition
    While the body treats the sugar in fruit the same way it treats table sugar, there are significant differences in the nutritional composition of both foods as a whole. Table sugar is a source of empty calories, while fruit provides a variety of health-promoting nutrients including fiber, vitamins A and C and potassium.” and “There is no comparison. If you are looking at the food as a whole, refined sugar has no other attributes. None. Period.”

    I have no idea how you could interpret molecule from that.

    You then replied “I asked: What is nutritionally different between “refined (table) sugar” and “natural sugar”?”

    I actually think she did answer your question “I said earlier that refined sugar vs natural sugar are processed by the body the same way.”

    You made the discussion about the molecule not the whole food from what I can see.

  • aimee

    Hi Crazy24 dogs,

    When you wrote “”You are again trying to compare refined (table) sugar to natural sugar
    that occurs in fruits and vegetables. They are not nutritionallly(sic) equal”

    I interpreted it as you saying the sugar from a bag is different from sugar from fruit or vegetable. Then you added “The original debate was regarding the sugar”

    From my perspective the discussion started about the molecule and always
    was about the molecule. That is why I couldn’t see why you said they were nutritionally different.

    Sugar: “sweet substance usually in the form of white or brown crystals or white powder that comes from plants and is used to make foods sweeter; and preservative of other foods; any one of various substances that are found in plants and that your body uses or stores for energy

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sugar

    A sweet crystalline or powdered substance, white when pure, consisting of sucrose obtained mainly from sugarcane and sugar beets and used in many foods, drinks, and medicines to improve their taste. Also called table sugar.

    2. Any of a class of water-soluble crystalline carbohydrates, including sucrose and lactose, having a characteristically sweet taste and classified as monosaccharides, disaccharides, and trisaccharides.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sugar

    I agree the refined sugar has no nutritional value other than an energy source. And I’m ok with that. My opinion is that refined sugar can be used in a responsible way. This is why i said look at the food as a whole. I’m not concerned about the small amount of refined sugar used in Grandmother’s roll recipe as the small amount is balanced out bu other healthful ingredients. I would be concerned about breakfast number two without any refined sugar as the meal was sugar heavy.

  • aimee

    Hi Crazy4dogs,

    You wrote “Breakfast A is nutritionally complete and balanced via the vitamin” I’d very very strongly disagree with that statement.

    “Breakfast A: A Coke or Pepsi followed by a vitamin pill.”

    Humans, just like dogs, have nutrient needs for amino acids from proteins, essential fatty acids from fats and minerals in addition to vitamins. Breakfast A is devoid of protein and fats and nearly all minerals.

    I’d also very strongly disagree that Breakfast A correlates to a diet such as Beneful that meets an AAFCO profile while Breakfast B would correlate to Grandma Lucy’s or Honest Kitchen.

    Please note that AAFCO does not approve foods. “Kind of sounds like Beneful or some other AAFCO approved dog food containing sugar”

  • Shawna

    EXACTLY — there are SO MANY healthier options to use than “sugar” in any diet let alone a canine kibbled diet.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Interesting choice, since Breakfast A is nutritionally complete and balanced via the vitamin, but has some added refined sugar. Breakfast B is made from all fresh ingredients, but is not necessarily nutritionally complete since there is no guarantee of what the ingredients are or that they are complete. Kind of sounds like Beneful or some other AAFCO approved dog food vs The Honest Kitchen or Grandma Lucy’s doesn’t it? πŸ˜‰

  • Shawna

    Table sugar is from a “natural” source as well. It’s the refining of the sugar that I find unnatural so, with this in mind, I would not consider your breakfast juice any more or any less natural than table sugar. I’d much prefer a fruit smoothie to fruit juice.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Ok, final answer and discussion. I guess in the course of the discussion, you didn’t make it apparent that we are only discussing molecules vs nutrition since the whole discussion was geared towards the nutritional aspect of the equivalent sugar found in whole foods vs refined sugar in a bag. Now, apparently, you have switched the discussion again.

    In regard to your “breakfast scenario”:

    “Which is the better breakfast for my child? A breakfast consisting of a pancake from a recipe that contained a small amount of refined sugar served with a sprinkle of cinnamon and a 6 ounce glass of milk or a breakfast pancake made without any refined sugar and served with a tablespoon of natural maple syrup and 6 ounces of apple juice.”

    Since we are only comparing the nutritional value of “sugar” wouldn’t the correct scenario be:

    A breakfast consisting of a pancake from a recipe that contained a small amount of refined sugar served with a sprinkle of cinnamon and a 6 ounce glass of milk or a breakfast pancake made without any refined sugar and served with a tablespoon of natural maple syrup and 6 ounces of milk.

    If you use apple juice, you are changing the diet and adding more sugar. Yes, I realize the juice and milk have different nutrients, but you are moving the discussion to the sugar, so I am doing to what you are requesting, natural vs refined table sugar.

    Nutrition in refined sugar:

    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5592/2

    Nutrition is natural maple sugar syrup:

    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5602/2

    I am not including the cinnamon, as you are only comparing the biological value in SUGAR There is some value in the cinnamon, but you are comparing sugars, not spices and there is no data on a “sprinkle”, only on a teaspoon:

    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/spices-and-herbs/180/2

    If you insist on using the “sugar molecule” discussion, which you have now switched to vs your previous comments “I think I made it quite clear that I take a holistic view and look at the whole diet or whole food” comments, I would think you could understand my confusion:

    Your post:

    “I look at the food as a whole. The whole wheat roll I make has fiber and protein and vitamins in it and some sucrose. An apple has vitamins and fiber a bit of protein and some sucrose.”

    With Beneful there was sugar in the recipe but look at the food as a whole instead of separating out one component. The dog cannot eat the sugar straight up. it comes with a lot of nutrients.”

    It seems that you have indeed changed your argument to looking at the molecular structure and separating out one component as opposed to viewing the food as a whole.

    So, as I tried to tell you in the many other posts, NO, they are not the same on a nutritional level. There are subtle differences, but the maple syrup contains some value, while the refined sugar has none. No matter how you spin it, the body is going to extract whatever nutrients are in the “container” of the maple sugar while there is NOTHING on a nutrient level in the refined sugar.

    FINAL ANSWER.

  • bojangles

    Hi Aimee

    Why do you feed your dogs kibble when you clearly have the knowledge to feed them a much higher quality and less processed 100% home made diet?

  • aimee

    Hi Shawna,

    I’d disagree that “Honey is also a simple sugar.”,. Honey contains simple sugars and is primarily sugars but it is more than just sugar.

    From your source “Honey is composed of various sugars, flavonoids, phenolic acids, enzymes, amino acids, proteins, and miscellaneous compounds (Table 1). Its composition varies according to floral sources and origin [8].”

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3865795/

    And as you said you can see the same with maple syrup “Further Investigation Into Maple Syrup Yields Three New Lignans, a
    New Phenylpropanoid, and Twenty-Six Other Phytochemicals”

    But if you limit the discussion to sugar, as you quoted from your source “Sugar is sugar.”

  • aimee

    In answer to your question “Which is the better nutrition” even through you already know how I’d answer.

    I’ll confirm for you that I would choose Breakfast B over breakfast A

  • aimee

    Hi bojangles,

    Yes, as you said, “C4d has replied” to the question I posed, but C4D never answered.

    Same as the breakfast scenerio. C4D replied to the question but didn’t answer it.

  • aimee

    I’m sorry that you are confused.

    You said that the sugar molecule C12H22O11 from a bag is processed the same as the sugar molecule C12H22O11 from fruit. We agree on this point.

    We also agree that when comparing refined sugar to fruit that the fruit is a source of other nutrients while the refined sugar is not.

    Where we disagree is that I see the the nutritional value of a C12H22O11
    molecule from a bag of sugar as being nutritionally equivalent to a C12H22O11
    molecule from fruit and you said they are different.

    .As you said “The original debate was regarding the sugar”. Please limit the discussion to the sugar molecule and only the sugar molecule. What is nutritionally different between a sugar molecule taken out of the bag and a sugar molecule taken out of a piece of fruit?

    You have replied but you didn’t answer.

    I received the same type of response to the breakfast scenario. You replied, but you didn’t answer the question.

    I asked “Which is the better breakfast for my child? ” and you replied. “I wouldn’t choose either breakfast”

    I asked you to rank one over the other and you did not rank them.

    I went on to say “I’d say the first breakfast, using refined sugar is more healthful than
    the second breakfast without refined sugar. Do you agree of disagree?”

    Your didn’t answer the question.

    I do agree with you that there is no point in continuing this discussion

  • aimee

    The second breakfast is primarily sugar, sugar and more sugar, though from natural sources.

    The first breakfast is better but could could be improved upon. I see it as lacking in phytonutrients, I like color with all my meals, and light on protein.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I’m confused. Either you did not read my answers, you lack either reading or comprehension skills or simply want to continue arguing a debate that I already said: “As far as this discussion, I’m done. We will have to agree to disagree. I just don’t have the time to continue this, so I’m getting off this merry go round. ;-)”

    I anwerered your question more times than I care to think. The original debate was regarding the sugar in fruits or vegetables (natural sugar) vs refined sugar.

    Do you really want me to include the links to all of these posts in which I answered the question? Because I will.

  • bojangles

    Hi aimee,

    C4d has replied to your question 3 times already!

    Do you think by asking her the same question over and over you’ll finally get the answer you want?

  • Shawna

    This is interesting too. From the Journal of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
    “Results
    Substantial differences in total antioxidant content of different sweeteners were found. Refined sugar, corn syrup, and agave nectar contained minimal antioxidant activity (<0.01 mmol FRAP/100 g); raw cane sugar had a higher FRAP (0.1 mmol/100 g). Dark and blackstrap molasses had the highest FRAP (4.6 to 4.9 mmol/100 g), while maple syrup, brown sugar, and honey showed intermediate antioxidant capacity (0.2 to 0.7 mmol FRAP/100 g). Based on an average intake of 130 g/day refined sugars and the antioxidant activity measured in typical diets, substituting alternative sweeteners could increase antioxidant intake an average of 2.6 mmol/day, similar to the amount found in a serving of berries or nuts." http://www.andjrnl.org/article/S0002-8223(08)01891-9/abstract

  • Shawna

    Refined table sugar is a nutrient depleted, highly processed and potentially genetically modified food substance.

    Honey is also a simple sugar. “Ask a scientist” on Huffington Post article says this about honey. “Sugar is sugar. And honey is (mostly) sugar. But if you’re choosing between the two from a health perspective, err on the side of the sticky stuff.” He goes on to say “And there are also about 20 other sugars in the mix, many of which are much more complex, and dextrin, a type of starchy fiber. This means that your body expends more energy to break it all down to glucose. Therefore, you end up accumulating fewer calories from it.” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/09/healthy-sugar-honey_n_5445024.html

    Honey has also been shown to prevent and kill cancer cells. In this study they actually say this “Honey modulates the body immune system. There are still many unanswered questions; why sugar is carcinogenic, while honey which is basically sugar has anticarcinogenic properties” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3865795/

    Not all simple sugars are created equal.

  • Shawna

    Yes, of course, they do consume simple sugars (on occasion) but it is not a large part, or even any part, of every meal.

    So you don’t consider the two breakfasts you created as healthy? Can you explain why you don’t find them healthy?

  • aimee

    I “made” two meals for the sake of comparison but no where did I say that either breakfast was “actually healthy” so I don’t see that you can say “but where we differ is that I don’t consider either breakfast actually healthy”

    You never did answer my question “Do your grand kids ever consume any simple sugars?”

    I did answer yours.

  • aimee

    Actually you never did answer the question.

    To recap you said:
    “You are again trying to compare refined (table) sugar to natural sugar that occurs in fruits and vegetables. They are not nutritionallly(sic) equal”

    You clearly are comparing refined table sugar to natural sugar and stating that they are not the nutritionally equal.

    You are not comparing refined table sugar to fruit as you wrote “compare refined (table) sugar to natural sugar” not compare refined (table) sugar to fruit which contains natural sugar.

    You “answer” compares table sugar to fruit but that is not what I asked. I asked “What is nutritionally different between “refined (table) sugar” and “natural sugar”” as it is those two things that you said are nutritionally different.

    Hopefully you can now see why you never answered my question.

  • Cannoli

    Nutritionists are like vets and lawyers. There are too many of them and not enough jobs. Especially with all the debt they incur after graduating. They gotta work somewhere

  • Storm’s Mom

    Ah, so THIS is why the “veterinary nutritionists” that aimee likes to quote are soooo far off the mark!!! They are not “nutritionists” in the way that we think of the profession for humans, but in the sense that they follow this (ridiculous) belief in “nutritionism”. I (finally) get it now!!! Clever/deceptive bit of MARKETING that these “nutritionists” have done. Why am I not surprised?! …and not surprised that most of them work for Purina, RC, etc or promote those companies in their “recommendations”.

  • Shawna

    I have to agree with bojangles. What you are discussing is nutritionism not holism.

    “Nutritionism is an ideology that includes the misguided belief that scientists can engineer a food that’s better than that of Mother Nature

    Followers of nutritionism believe the source and condition of the ingredients used to make any pet food have nothing to do with the quality of the finished product.” http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/nutritionism/

  • bojangles

    “So when I said “Look at the diet from a holistic point of view.” that would mean to look at the diet as a whole instead of focusing on one part”

    I expected nothing less than misdirection from you, so thank you for not disappointing me πŸ™‚

    In case you would like to learn something, instead of trying so hard to manipulate the meaning of things to suit your personal agenda, I leave you with the following quote:

    “Holistic nutrition is all about eating healthy food as close to its natural state as possible for optimum health and well- being. Hallmarks of holistic nutrition include unrefined, unprocessed, organic and locally grown whole foods”

  • aimee

    Hi bojangles,

    The word holistic is defined as

    “relating to the whole of something or to the total system instead of just to its parts”

    http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/holistic

    “relating to or concerned with complete systems rather than with individual parts”

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/holistic

    So when I said “Look at the diet from a holistic point of view.” that would mean to look at the diet as a whole instead of focusing on one part.

  • Shawna

    I would so totally try that if I could eat cheese without getting sick. πŸ™

  • LabsRawesome

    Agreed. It’s not good for any living thing. πŸ™‚

  • Shawna

    I get pasture raised too but mine aren’t as fresh as yours..

  • theBCnut

    It’s all the sugar. Science has shown it’s not good for you.

  • LabsRawesome

    Compare Beneful to Royal Canin?

  • LabsRawesome

    Hahaha theBCnut, you kill me! πŸ™‚ I like my lunch with a side of diabetes too. πŸ˜‰

  • theBCnut

    Funny you should mention that… I do drink Mountain Dew with lunch, so I’m pretty sure I get enough. LOL!!

  • LabsRawesome

    That’s nice. But I don’t think you’re getting your RDA of sugar. Maybe you should add a Coke or Pepsi to your meal.

  • Cannoli

    i make a mean pizza using cauliflower as the crust. i grind the cauliflower up and turn into a flour like consistancy. then i lay it in the pan and bake it. afterwards i add the sauce, cheese, and toppings

  • theBCnut

    Pasture raised eggs, fresh fruit, and a handful of nuts for me. Oh, and my own raw goat milk.

  • bojangles

    “Look at the diet from a holistic point of view”

    Earth calling aimee, come in aimee.

    You are one of DFA’s poster children for NOT feeding their dogs a holistic diet.

    I have been feeding my dogs a homemade raw and lightly cooked diet made with pasture raised meats, organs, ground bones and wild caught fish, supplemented with omega 3’s and organic oils, balanced with a wide variety of organic pureed fruits, vegetables and supplements for the last 20 years.

    You have been feeding your dogs Purina πŸ™‚

  • Amateria

    The skeleton memes are awesome.

    A huge amount of people were once waiting for the sub version of an anime to come out (took forever!) there was skeleton memes on almost every post πŸ˜›

  • Shawna

    I wouldn’t eat either breakfast, as described, but if I had to pick one….. πŸ™‚

    This morning I had 1/3 cup of mixed nuts (hazelnuts, cashews, brazil nuts, pecans and macadamia). I also make eggs in muffin tins with bacon and leftover veggies from previous evenings meals. Another favorite is a recipe I acquired from a class given by a nutritionist at a local health food store — paleo “breakfast bread” made with almond butter and almond meal. Lightly toasted with Kerrygold butter —- YUM That reminds me, I misplaced the recipe and need to get looking for it. πŸ™‚

    We eat a lot of avocado’s (I think they may be my granddaughter’s favorite food) but usually at lunch or dinner.

    I found this amazing recipe for fish — take tilapia (cod works too) and cover with dijon mustard of choice and then coat the mustard with almond meal w/ a dash of paprika and gently fry in coconut oil. One of our favorite dishes.

    I can’t have dairy and Damon can’t have gluten so I have to think outside the box when cooking. Chestnut flour has become a huge favorite. It’s wonderful as a coating for baked chicken.

  • LabsRawesome

    Still waiting.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I know I said I was off this merry go round discussion, but I will amend that statement to include one final comment, as I didn’t address the “breakfast scenario”.

    I wouldn’t choose either breakfast. If you want a valid comparison to feeding Beneful vs feeding a more natural diet, I consider this to be a valid comparison:

    Breakfast A: A Coke or Pepsi followed by a vitamin pill.

    Breakfast B: A smoothie made with a variety of fresh fruits and vegetables including spinach or kale and yogurt.

    Which one is the better nutrition? Darn, I already know your answer.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Don’t feed the RC troll. πŸ˜‰

  • Crazy4dogs

    I wouldn’t pick either breakfast. We eat greek yogurt, whole grain muffins, poached eggs & avocado. πŸ˜‰

  • Shawna

    I have to agree that the first breakfast is healthier than the second breakfast but where we differ is that I don’t consider either breakfast actually healthy – not if fed every meal for life.

  • Lanie Malvit

    Royal canin is the only food that is triple tested before they ship it to stores, They test their ingredients before they even create the formula, they test the food AFTER development, and they test each batch to ensure it goes up to their highest standards.

    And unlike other brands, Royal canin has vets test their foods, not uneducated employees with no experience. also, unlike other brands, royal canin’s chicken byproduct meal only contains chicken heads, organs, hearts, and carcasses. And contains no bones, feathers, un-developed eggs, etc. And thats one of the many things they test for when the chicken byproduct meal arrives at the factory

    Royal canin is the only dog food that is developed, tested, and approved by vets and they have developed over 150 different dog formulas so that there is always a formula fit for any dog.

    whether their overweight, underweight, diabetic, have urinary issues, have a grain allergy, 3 weeks old, 20 years old, and many other conditions.

  • Lanie Malvit

    Everyone needs to stop feeding this junk and start feeding the highest quality dog food on earth, Royal canin!!

  • aimee

    Hi bojangles,

    Table sugar is sucrose. Sucrose can come in a bag or in a banana or in whole wheat bread or in Beneful or in fruit or in fruit juice or in maple syrup etc etc.

    Their is no difference in the nutritional value of the sucrose no matter what “container” it comes in.

    The difference among them is what else comes in the “container”. Of the above “containers” I consider the bag, the fruit juice, and the syrup to be poor dietary choices compared to whole wheat bread, Beneful or the banana.

    Though the sucrose in the fruit juice and the maple syrup are natural sources vs the refined sugar in the bag I view them equally as none of those containers have much else in them besides sugar. In small amounts, they all can be responsibly incorporated into a
    healthful diet.

    Look at the diet from a holistic point of view.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I did answer the question. Read or reread, whichever is applicable, my previous reply, including the quote from a human nutritionist “Comparing the Nutrition.”

    You say “I look at the food as a whole.” I find that difficult to believe as you would not continue this comparison. You don’t even seem to read a link or an article as a whole, but choose bits and pieces.

    As far as this discussion, I’m done. We will have to agree to disagree. I just don’t have the time to continue this, so I’m getting off this merry go round. πŸ˜‰

  • aimee

    Hi Crazy4dogs,

    You didn’t answer the question.

    You said “refined (table) sugar” and “natural sugar” “are not nutritionallly(sic) equal”

    I asked: What is nutritionally different between “refined (table) sugar” and “natural sugar”?

    I think you didn’t answer because you don’t want to admit that they are the same.

    What I see the article as saying is don’t take your sugar “straight up”. The sugar you consume should be incorporated into foods that provide nutrients. Additionally, be mindful of the nutrient/sugar ratio. Even so a small amount of sugar straight up is Ok and can be part of a healthful diet.

    I think I made it quite clear that I take a holistic view and look at the whole diet or whole food.

    “I look at the food as a whole. The whole wheat roll I make has fiber and protein and vitamins in it and some sucrose. An apple has vitamins and fiber a bit of protein and some sucrose.”

    With Beneful there was sugar in the recipe but look at the food as a whole instead of separating out one component. The dog cannot eat the sugar straight up. it comes with a lot of nutrients.

    Which is the better breakfast for my child? A breakfast consisting of a pancake from a recipe that contained a small amount of refined sugar served with a sprinkle of cinnamon and a 6 ounce glass of milk or a breakfast pancake made without any refined sugar and served with a tablespoon of natural maple syrup and 6 ounces of apple juice.

    I’d say the first breakfast, using refined sugar is more healthful than the second breakfast without refined sugar. Do you agree of disagree?

  • Shawna

    This is a new way of thinking for many but it truly is more about how your body uses the calories from the food you eat then the actual amount of calories eaten….

  • Cannoli

    You can’t stop because like me it creates an addiction. Foods that are simple carbohydrates triggers your mind to eat more. There have been numerous brain studies on morbidly obese patients that when fed simple carbs while being brain scanned the image shows an extremely high abnormal brain activity. Same activity you see in alcoholics and drug addicts. They need more and more of the food because it gives them a ” high”

    Hence moderation diets do not work on people like me. Sadly elimination of these types of foods is the way to go but it’s a very difficult thing to do because life happens. Simple carbs are everywhere in our life. In our office, at our friends house, etc

  • Amateria

    Well I’m not on meds since my condition doesn’t require any and I’m apparently underweight so I don’t have much to worry about in that department either.

    I meant it more that it will cause me allergy like symptoms to foods high in certain things.

  • Cannoli

    same here. I was close to being a diabetic years ago. Refined sugar and processed flour along with a high salt diet nearly destroyed my body.

    My doctor who knew nothing about nutrition gave me meds. I took it upon myself to educate myself about nutrition. Now I am medication free.

    Don’t get me wrong I still have my sugar and flour treats here and there but I don’t eat those types of foods on a daily basis. Neither should dogs

  • theBCnut

    My brother is an unstable diabetic and went to a zero carb diet(well, as close as he can get considering how sugars are added into just about everything). He got completely off all his medications, including his high blood pressure and cholesterol meds and lost 70 lbs in less than 3 months. This was while shooting for eating
    3000 kcals a day.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Again, you are taking the link I included in my post and only including the portion that fits your position as opposed to what the article is actually stating. I said earlier that refined sugar vs natural sugar are processed by the body the same way. The article, which was written by a Registered Dietician Nutritionist, also includes this:

    “Comparing the Nutrition
    While the body treats the sugar in fruit the same way it treats table sugar, there are significant differences in the nutritional composition of both foods as a whole. Table sugar is a source of empty calories, while fruit provides a variety of health-promoting nutrients including fiber, vitamins A and C and potassium. One teaspoon of sugar contains 16 calories, 4 grams of carbohydrates and no fiber, vitamins or minerals. By comparison, one medium orange contains 80 calories, 19 grams of carbs, 3 grams of fiber, 250 milligrams of potassium and 130 percent of the daily value for vitamin C.”

    There is no comparison. If you are looking at the food as a whole, refined sugar has no other attributes. None. Period.

    So, do you call your child to the table and feed her a bowl of sugar for a meal or a bowl of fruit?

  • bojangles

    Hi aimee,

    “What is nutritionally different between “refined (table) sugar” and “natural sugar”?

    The banana the “natural sugar” comes in.

    Most of your spiel revolves around misdirection, like when you compare table sugar to sucrose but forget that table sugar comes in a bag and sucrose comes in a banana.

    Or when you say “it’s not about the ingredients”, because if people were to judge Purina by it’s ingredients no one would feed it.

  • JellyCat

    True story, but I’d take that kind of sugar over refined simple carbs any day.
    Also, the benefits of eating fruits and vegetable for humans are significant even though they contain some simple carbs. The benefits of sugar in beneful are not there, so I cannot really compare these. There is also no benefits of consuming several food colourings at every meal and these are typically associated with highly processed and unhealthy foods for humans.

  • aimee

    LOL I guess I better use a different term!

    Though human waste has been reported as being a significant part of the natural diet of the dog I’ve never been one to embrace and feed such a natural diet : )

  • aimee

    You said “You are again trying to compare refined (table) sugar to natural sugar
    that occurs in fruits and vegetables. They are not nutritionallly(sic) equal”

    What is nutritionally different between “refined (table) sugar” and “natural sugar”?

    I see them as the same and
    your own link supports that.: “Whether it’s the sugar you put in your coffee or the sugar in your banana, your body processes it same way”

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/546655-does-the-body-process-fruit-sugars-the-same-way-that-it-does-refined-sugar/

    I look at the food as a whole. The whole wheat roll I make has fiber and protein and vitamins in it and some sucrose. An apple has vitamins and fiber a bit of protein and some sucrose.

    I don’t have problem with having my child eat either as part of her diet.

  • aimee

    Jellycat,

    I’m right there with you as I don’t eat bread three times a day either. But I do eat vegetables and fruits and like the bread they do have a “small amount of sugar”

  • Amateria

    But eating that much bread a day is fun hehe

    Just watch though, I’ll probably need to change to a simple diet soon as eating that much bread has always caused a flare in my insulin resistance even if it took a few months to appear.
    It is so very hard to stop and people usually can’t stop until something bad happens, I’m apparently said person…

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi aimee,

    You might want to use a different term for what you feed your dogs, unless it’s accurate. Human waste is generally defined as excrement or feces. That’s what I’ve always considered the term to mean. Apparently, so does the rest of the world:

    http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/human%20waste

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/human+waste

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_waste

  • Crazy4dogs

    I actually was ROTFLMAO, but I still felt guilty. I’m trying to keep this discussion above board.

  • LabsRawesome

    Don’t feel bad it’s true. πŸ™‚

  • Crazy4dogs

    I did, and I laughed, but I felt guilty.

  • JellyCat

    Really? Even that “small amount of sugar” is not being consumed by me and my kids at every meal. There is no way I’d want to eat bread three times a day.

  • LabsRawesome

    Check out my meme. lol

  • Crazy4dogs

    Aimee, You are again trying to compare refined (table) sugar to natural sugar that occurs in fruits and vegetables. They are not nutritionallly equal, no matter what kind of spin you try to put on it.

    I had Great Grandfather that lived to 108, on a rural farm. My grandparents didn’t eat a lot of refined sugar on a regular basis. Your grandparents vs my grandparents is not a valid argument.

    I’m truly astonished at how desperate you are to try to prove that Beneful and Dog Chow are good choices to feed a dog. It’s almost getting comical.

  • aimee

    Apparently i would . after thinkng a bit about it she probably ingests some sucrose aka table sugar at every meal.

    So many fruits and vegetables contain sucrose and great grandma’ss recipes that i use for making rolls and pancakes use small amounts of sugar. I add a bit to the pizza crust dough. After I mix the yeast with water I add a touch of sugar to “get them going” a hold over tip from a microbiologist whose kids I watched when I was young. I know the preserves I put up have sucrose in them….

    I better stop feeding her foods Great Grandma ate.. she died at 104.

    Everything in moderation….

  • aimee

    Nice dramatic effect… next time though go for accuracy instead of drama : )

  • LabsRawesome

    Pretty much.

  • bojangles

    Hi aimee,

    I say “Have you also noticed that Purina figured out an ingenious way of using all the waste from their human food facilities”, and you tell a story about an overripe banana.

    Now that’s funny πŸ™‚

    Think more along the lines of:

    – Rat poop
    – Rotten and rotting, meats
    – Floor sweepings
    – Food scraped from the machines when they are cleaned
    – Foods that contain mold, mites, alflatoxins, mycotoxins, vomitoxins.
    – Heads, beaks, claws, feet.
    – Rancid oils
    – Cockroaches
    – Feces

    Now Purina’s Veterinary and PhD nutritionists use all that research and science to turn that “waste” into Dog Food!

  • Shawna

    You answer my question first. Would you feed your child table sugar at every meal?

  • Shawna

    I read it differently than you
    “The limitations of cross-sectional studies, the lack of controlled feeding trials, and the importance of genetic variation in response explain the absence of conclusive evidence. The lessons learned from animal models point to dietary fat as one potentially important component in the etiology of human obesity.”

    Yet we know that humans, even with diabetes, put on high fat diets not only lose weight but also have improvements with their diabetes. Of course, the fat has to be appropriate fats. This paper doesn’t state whether these animals were fed olive oil or corn oil. Only certain fats are allowed on the “high fat diet”.

  • aimee

    Do your grand kids ever consume any simple sugars?
    I’d evaluate diet as a whole vs vilifying a component.

  • Shawna

    No, you do not understand my position. I feel the overall carb content is important but I also think that complex carbohydrates should make up the majority of that lower amount. I see no place for table sugar in the canine diet – especially a diet that is fed at every meal, every day for life.

  • Shawna

    I don’t think anyone is actually freaking out?

    I personally wouldn’t feed, even small amounts, of granulated table sugar to my grand kids at every meal. Would you feed your daughter this way?

  • aimee

    I don’t think there is any reason for someone to seek out and only buy products that have sugar as an ingredient. but I also don’t see any reason to “freak out” over it’s presence.

  • aimee

    i don’t disagree that many of the ingredients that goes into the making of any dog food is by product from human food processing.

    Ethically I think this is the right thing to do., especially when considering animal based products.

    I admit to feeding my dog “human waste” nearly every day. For example today I noted that my bananas were getting overripe. I’m fickle and don’t like to eat them in that state so.. I can either throw them into the garbage… waste,or re-purpose them.

    The overripe bananna is now stuffed into a kong and is in the freezer.

    Similar story with the chicken breast that hubby overcooked and was quite dry. I know I’m not going to eat that.. i could either throw it away .. human waste or i could feed it to my dogs.

    Human “waste” can be very nutritious.

  • bojangles
  • Crazy4dogs

    Very interesting Bojangles. Do you have a link to that information?

  • Crazy4dogs

    I want to think Purina is finally doing the right thing. However, I would be leery of glycerin being used in the formula. Unless it specifically names vegetable glycerin, it could be no better than propylene glycol. πŸ™

    http://slimdoggy.com/dog-food-ingredients-a-to-z-glycerin/

    http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/12_11/features/Treat_16175-1.html

    https://goodnessgracioustreats.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/glycerin-a-diesel-by-any-other-name-wouldnt-taste-as-sweet/

  • aimee

    I wouldn’t say it is my opinion so much as it is the only conclusion I can make based on the literature pertaining to cause of Diabetes in dogs.

    Of the major macro-nutrients, protein fat and carb, it has only been fat which has been “tapped” as having a potential in the pathogenesis of DM based on its role in pancreatitis.

  • LabsRawesome

    That’s no surprise to me. Beneful is toxic waste.
    Glad to here you switched to actual food.
    I hope your pup is feeling better.

  • bojangles

    “The low carb fad certainly hasn’t helped the “diabesity” problem either”

    I don’t know about the obesity part of your statement, but is it your opinion that the overall carb content of a dog’s diet and canine diabetes have no correlation?

  • bojangles

    HI Pitlove,

    “I believe he (your store’s new Purina rep) did say that the revamping of Beneful was due to the large outcry of consumers who were upset about the inclusion of propylene glycol, sugar etc”

    That’s great!

    Did you happen to ask, or did he happen to say why “propylene glycol, sugar etc” were in their foods in the first place?

    And did you know that the propylene glycol that Purina is now removing, is said in the class action lawsuit to have been industrial grade, NOT food grade, and that the lawsuit claims there were other toxic substances like lead, arsenic and mycotoxins in Beneful?

    “Purina failed to disclose that the brand contains substances toxic to animals β€” including Industrial Grade Glycols (IGG), lead, arsenic and mycotoxins.”

    What was discussed in the conversation that you two had about the lawsuit against Bedneful?

  • aimee

    If I’m understanding your position then, it is unlike the OP, in that you have no objection to the sugar per say that was in this diet or the sugar content of any diet as long as the over all carbohydrate content of the diet falls within your preferred level? Is that right?

    When it comes to carbs do you prefer simple sugars over starches?

    “I don’t think it’s any huge secret that I advocate for lower carb (starch) diets to begin with”.

    This would seem to fit with canid diets in the wild that seasonally may consume a lot of fruit and therefore more simple sugars than starches.

    I think the glycerin in the new formula is replacing the propylene glycol and sugar in the old formula as a humectant and preservative to keep the moist bits moist. The wellness core air dried that I use has training rewards contains the same thing.

    I got a free sample of the Evengers Hi- Bio. Initially the pieces were just as moist as the Wellness product but then they quickly dried upon air exposure. The Hi Bio doesn’t have glycerin.

    I have a weird quirk in that I don’t like squishy pieces as a main diet but i do like the Wellness Core squishy pieces for training reward.

    I think the reason replacing fat with sugar, the low fat fad, didn’t get “us” anyplace is because the food still tasted good and people still consumed calories in excess of need. The low carb fad certainly hasn’t helped the “diabesity” problem either.

    I do think there very well could be differences between people and dogs.

    “It is evident from animal experiments
    that the percentage of energy derived from fat in
    the diet is positively correlated with body fat content. With few
    exceptions,
    obesity is induced by high-fat diets in monkeys,
    dogs, pigs, hamsters, squirrels, rats, and mice. The mechanisms
    responsible
    for this correlation between body fat and dietary
    fat content are not clear……In contrast with the animal studies, studies in humans that have examined the relation between dietary fat content
    and body fat are inconclusive.”

    The authors go to to say why a correlation may not have yet been found but it may be that we are different from other animals.

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/67/3/505S.short

  • Cannoli

    Good for Purina for trying. They keep improving their ingredients and one day I’ll give them a try

  • theBCnut

    That’s what they used to think about humans. Now we have a diabetes epidemic and a few other little nasty health problems.

  • Pitlove

    Our new Purina rep and I discussed the new Beneful formulas not too long ago. We talked about the Beneful lawsuits etc. I believe he did say that the revamping of Beneful was due to the large outcry of consumers who were upset about the inclusion of propylene glycol, sugar etc. I was told the proylene glycol would be removed as well and I did notice at Walmart when I checked out the ingredient list for what looked like a new Beneful formula there wasn’t any.

  • LabsRawesome

    The problem with all of us is, we are not intelligent enough to understand her superior intellect. πŸ™‚

  • LabsRawesome

    No I didn’t. But if it makes you feel superior, then go ahead and think that. Actually, you missed my point.
    There are so many good foods to choose from, why you continuously defend/recommend Beneful, and call it a valid choice, is questionable.

  • Shawna

    I don’t think it’s any huge secret that I advocate lower carb (starch) diets to begin with.

  • Storm’s Mom

    So, if all nutrient needs are met from other ingredients, it’s ok to then just load something up with sugar for the heck of it?!

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi aimee,

    Maybe I’m misunderstanding this, but in the earlier post to JellyCat, it seemed that you said that the sugar didn’t meet her feeding philosophy? Do you think refined sugar in dog food should fit any owner’s feeding philosophy?

    I realize the whole discussion is a bit of a moot point since it appears Purina is no longer including sugar in the new formulas. Perhaps Purina realizes that improvements in the formula are needed to reduce the risk of lost sales.

  • aimee

    You missed the point.. that’s Ok

  • LabsRawesome

    Water has no nutritional value. Neither does sugar.
    The difference is a dog will die without one, and be healthier without the other. For someone that is so “scientific” and “intelligent” that should be obvious.

  • aimee

    I didn’t interpret what you said as meaning ” a food that contains a “small amount of something of “no nutritional value” automatically makes a food “terrible”. But I think that was the position of the OP.

    Is your position then that removing the sugar from a food that has apples bananas and sweet potatoes as ingredients would make it a better food?

  • bojangles

    Have you also noticed that Purina figured out an ingenious way of using all the waste from their human food facilities while fooling consumers into thinking it’s healthy?

    They call it dog food.

  • aimee

    Hi Crazy4dogs,

    I’m not trying to ” to prove that refined sugar is a “good” ingredient”

    I’m saying that as long as nutrient needs are met that it is Ok if some components consumed don’t have “nutritional value.”

  • Crazy4cats

    Haha! I haven’t visited the dogfood project site since I was first obsessed with trying to figure out how to feed my dogs properly! I like the live strong site as well due to me learning how to eat better to lower my triglycerides. Apparently I need to consume less sugar, less saturated fat and exercise more. Why oh why does it always come back to that? Anyway, I am shocked at how much sugar is in so many foods. Like I mentioned to Aimee, I think it would be very helpful to see how much sugar is in dog food as well. Thanks for the links.

  • mahoraner

    You’ve made a good point. And it is true, you usually feed less on the higher quality ones.
    So actually, If sport mix wholesomes is CHEAPER than beneful when divided by pounds, imagine how much cheaper it is when divided by meals?
    Sorry if i wrote that badly.

  • aimee

    I don’t recall ever seeing maize on a US label and searching DFA for maize didn’t yield any hits.

    I did see zea mays on a label though.but i think it was listed as a botanical and it was the silk and not the kernel that was in the diet

  • LabsRawesome

    I can’t even take this post seriously.

  • Crazy4dogs

    They probably learned that from the big 5 when they started calling corn “maize”. πŸ˜‰

  • LabsRawesome

    This is the dumbest post I’ve ever read.

  • Shawna

    Oh no, I’m not in the least little bit suggesting that a food that contains a “small amount of something of “no nutritional value” automatically makes a food “terrible”. I think my exact words were the exclusion would make it a “better food”.

    You’re grasping at straws with the water statement.

    It’s very difficult to even try to take you seriously when you attempt to defend sugar.

  • theBCnut

    You won’t be sorry.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Hi aimee,

    Sorry, but I think you should use a different example to try to prove that refined sugar is a “good ingredient” (SMH).

    Water is a basic requirement for any living organism. To compare sugar to water seems an invalid argument as water is necessary to sustain life and processed sugar is not.

    http://www.petmd.com/dog/nutrition/evr_dg_the_importance_of_water#

    I don’t think you can validly compare processed sugar to natural sugar found in a whole food either since, while the sugar is processed by the body in basically the same way, there are other nutritional elements to the whole food that provide nutrition to the body.

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/546655-does-the-body-process-fruit-sugars-the-same-way-that-it-does-refined-sugar/

  • aimee

    I don’t think we’ll ever see that… AAFCO can’t even decide how/if to list total carbohydrate content.

    I did notice a new way of listing sugar.. this was on a product at the dog boutique store
    “evaporated cane juice”

  • Crazy4cats

    You know, it’s too bad that the amount of sugar in dog food is not on the guaranteed analysis label like on human food. I think that would be great information to have when picking out a food!

  • mahoraner

    one thing i have to say about your comment “I myself consume a lot of water everyday. Water has no nutritional value You seem to be saying that I should be drinking fruit juice all day instead of water”

    first of all, dogs drink water too,
    and two, humans and dogs cant survive on just water, we and they both need a healthy diet to go along with the water

    just saying

  • aimee

    Hi Shawna,

    I didn’t miss that point about “this no nutritional value” but I disagree that simply because a diet contains a small amount of something of “no nutritional value” ( OP’s words) that that inclusion makes the overall diet a terrible diet.

    I myself consume a lot of water everyday. Water has no nutritional value You seem to be saying that I should be drinking fruit juice all day instead of water.

    I think the sugar is in the food to help keep the moist bits moist.

    If it is sugar itself that is vilified than diets with similar sugar levels from whole food ingredient should also be deemed “terrible”

  • aimee

    I promise to order a hot fudge banana shake for my first DQ shake taste test : )

  • Crazy4dogs

    Oh, for sure! I don’t do them often, but for crazy junk food DQ Blizzards are fun! πŸ˜‰

  • Crazy4cats

    Lol! I agree, but she was talking fast food. DQ seems to be known more for their desserts than food.

  • Shawna

    I didn’t understand the whole post but I think JellyCat made one point quite clear (you must have missed this?). “This has no nutritional value”

    Let’s look at the nutritional value of sugar as compared to sweet potato
    Sugar – no matter the quantity there is 0-fiber, 0-fatty acids and 0-amino acids. Although you would never need or use equal amounts of sugar to sweet potato for comparative purposes I am here. There is 28g of sugar in an ounce of granulated sugar. The nutrient balance completeness score is also 0 however there is a trace of a few minerals in there. Glycemic load is 19. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5592/2

    Sweet potato – 1gm fiber, 1gm fat (mostly omega 6) and 1gm of protein. But of those nutrient supplied the nutrient completeness score is 65 and the protein quality score is 82. The glycemic load is 2. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2667/2

    It’s quite clear to see which of these ingredients adds the most nutritional bang for the buck.

    You may say that sugar is added for energy (I think you have stated that before) however I would ask — isn’t the addition of the carbohydrate dense foods higher up in the ingredient list more than adequate to meet the dogs glucose/energy needs? Yes, yes they are.

    I personally do feel that the exclusion of sugar, unless replaced with an equally nutrient deficient ingredient/s, will make for a better food.

  • Shawna

    On this we can agree… I don’t hate the ingredients in Taste of the Wild foods but I won’t use them, regularly at least, due to company quality control issues and I do feel minimally processed foods offer more nutrition than brown food pellets.

    “I do not believe that you can rank one food as being better than another by looking at an ingredient list.”

    Not as the sole criteria but it’s a heck of a good place to start.

  • theBCnut

    OM! You have got to try hot fudge banana. Just sayin’.

  • Bobby dog

    Mmmmmmmm…Dairy Queen! πŸ˜‰

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