Understanding Dog Food Nutrient Profiles

Hi Yenlengchia ~~ Was there protein in the urin?  If only small amounts or none at all then no it is not advisable to feed a low protein diet in the early stages of kidney disease.  Instead, you want to feed a diet of “high quality” protein but lower in phosphorus.  Protein doesn’t damage the kidneys of renal dogs but phosphorus can.  In the early stages you don’t have to go LOW phosphorus but lowering phos is advaisable.  Feeding low protein will cause more harm then good.

Kibbled foods are not advisable as dehydration is an issue with kd and kibbles are dehydrating.  Either feed canned, home cooked or raw.  I feed my kd girl raw and have for the last 5 plus years.  Always keep fresh clean water available.

A high quality probiotic (like the one on Mercola Healthy Pets or Garden of Life’s Primal Defense) and a prebiotic (like Fiber 35 Sprinkle Fiber) will help keep the blood clean with a process called nitrogen trapping — which will allow for an even higher protein diet.

The below linked website is the most informative site I have ever found on all things related to dogs and kidney disease.  Also explains how low protein is NOT necessary.  Here’s just one quote from the site —

“Feeding the Older Dog from the SpeedyVet Clinical Nutrition Library “The assumption was that low-protein diets retarded the progression of renal degeneration. This assumption was disproved, using partially nephrectomised dogs, which showed no uraemic signs and had reduced but stable renal function for 48 months. These dogs did better on moderate-protein diets than on low-protein diets. There is no direct evidence that high protein intake damages canine kidneys or that reducing protein intake in dogs with renal dysfunction results in preservation of either renal structure or function.”  

And

“Kidney Failure from the Iams nutrition symposium “’For years, physicians and veterinarians have treated renal failure by reducing protein levels in diets,’ said Gregory Reinhart PhD, an Iams researcher. ‘After working with leading universities, we have now found that restricting protein in a dog’s diet may do more harm than good by potentially putting the companion animal at risk of protein malnutrition.’”   http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html

There’s tons more references about the low protein myth as well as diet recommendations, medications etc.  Excellent site!!!

Do let me know if you need more info.  There is much I have not included as this is already too long..

Peggy,

You can go with a higher protein grain food like Canidae Single Grain Protein Plus (just rice) or Solid Gold Sundancer (quinoa) or even Nature’s Logic (millet). The higher protein level in these foods would make it have less carbs if you prefer staying with a grain food.  You can also add a digestive enzyme to feeds that will help with digestion.  Or go grain free.

Peggy, I actually have 3 senior dogs and they can eat grain inclusive food just fine.  They are small dogs.  They can handle most grainfree dog foods, too……but do better on moderate protein perentages (around 30-35).

Esther, I think either one would be good for them. If they like the Darwin’s and you are happy with it, then use it. Nature’s Variety is a good premade raw, too, so you could actually rotate between the two brands. I rotate between NV, Primal and Steve’s Real Food.

Dear Mike, I have two small dogs and have given them NV Raw chicken in the past and stopped just because I didn’t want to deal with the mess, well I came across the Darwins Raw website and am back to giving them raw food again, I am a little confused as to which one is better for them, NV or Darwins??

Mariana,

Yes, the book is wrong or you are interpreting it wrong.. There is no breed and only two diseases that would warrant the lowering of protein — END stage kidney disease and liver disease/shunt. My dog Audrey who is a 9 pound Chihuahua/poodle/Boston Terrier mix was born with kidney disease and has been on a high protein diet her entire life. She is now 5 years old and doing fabulously. HOWEVER, you don’t know me (I’m new here) so going to quote from Dr’s Foster and Smith DVM website.

“If your dog eats too much protein, some will be excreted in the urine and the rest will be used as calories or converted to fat – causing your dog no harm…..

Does high protein cause kidney disease?
No. This myth probably started because, in the past, patients with kidney disease were commonly placed on low-protein (and thus low-nitrogen) diets. Today, we often put them on a diet that is not necessarily very low in protein, but instead contains protein that is more digestible (therefore producing fewer nitrogen by-products).” http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=459

Mary Straus has some EXCELLENT information on her website dogaware.com. Mary writes nutrition articles for Whole Dog Journal and other publications. Mary is (or was) a moderator on one of the Yahoo kidney forums as well.

“Nutrition and Renal Function from the Purina Research Report
“Dietary Protein and Renal Function: Results of multiple studies indicated that there were no adverse effects of the high protein diets.

Demystifying Myths About Protein from Today’s Breeder Magazine
“In contrast, research over the past 10 years or so has shown that protein does not harm the kidney of dogs. In studies conducted at the University of Georgia in the early 1990s, both in dogs with chronic kidney failure and in older dogs with only one kidney, protein levels as high as 34 percent caused no ill effects. . . . In other studies, David S. Kronfeld, Ph.D., indicated that compared with high- or low-protein diets, moderate-protein diets, those with up to 34 percent protein, had no ill effects in dogs with chronic renal failure and were associated with general improvement.” http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html

There is a TON more information on Mary’s site.

Low protein diets spare the kidneys is a complete and total myth.. The ONLY reason protein is restricted in late stages of kidney disease is because the kidneys are not able to filter the blood and blood urea nitrogen (a normal byproduct of protein digestion) and creatinine (a normal by-product of muscle renewal) build up in the blood and cause symptoms like vomitting, acidosis etc. Phosphorus is the one to watch in failing kidneys — phosphorus DOES cause damage. Phosphorus is very high in grains and some meats. Example — Sciene diet canned k/d uses egg whites but not the yolk – the yolk is high in phosphorus.

Hope that helps

Mike,
I just read Science Diet Natures Best Dry dog food product details on the http://www.hillspet.com website and that food DOES have an AAFCO statement. Why does your website say there is NO AAFCO statement. I feed my K9 Blue Buffalo but could not overlook this detail. Are you still correct or is this AAFCO statement about the food new? Thx, Mike

Hi Johanna Levy
Unfortunately you are only describing parts of the process that were recommended to you for your three itchy French bulldogs – it is easy enough to forget or overlook something when it a new process and one that you are unfamiliar with. Let me reiterate the process and the reasoning behind it as it is quite sound and can be very helpful when switching dogs from one food to another when they resist the change and you know the change is good for them.

First of all it is very common for dogs to actually be “hooked” on the sugar high they get from a diet high in grain or white potato, even though it can also cause stomach upset and skin conditions, and they will resist switching to other healthier foods. When this happens, as a god parent, you must help them make the transition because you know it’s in their best interests. what I usually suggest is that you mix the old food and new food together over a period of a week or two by slowly adding more of the new food each day. This will not always work so an alternative is to simply put the food down and if they don’t eat after 20 minutes then take it up. Remember that it is quite possible for your three cute ones to train you, rather that the other way around, if you’re not careful. This process is repeated twice a day until they do finally eat and acquire a taste for the healthy food. For even stubborn dogs this is usually effective within three days. No dog will willingly starve itself. People often think that this is a mean thing to do to a dog but how much meaner is it to feed them a low quality food that keeps them constantly itching just because they refuse to eat the healthy food right away? A wise parent chooses what is best in the long term for their child – right?

Now, as for the dog “suffering” if it decides not to eat for a few days you need to become aware of a fact about dogs that is not well known. After about 16 to 24 hours without eating a dogs body will begin a process called GLUCONEOGENESIS where their body takes fat to their liver and their liver converts it into glucose. You and I need to eat carbohydrates to get some glucose into our system but dogs have developed GLUCONEOGENESIS because in nature there is no one feeding them every 12 hours AND they must maintain energy to be able to hunt even if they don’t eat for a week or two. Because we feed our pets every 12 hours we teach them to expect food on that schedule and their stomach usually begins to prepare for it at the normal time. This is what you are hoping to take advantage of to get them to try the new, healthier food. However after a bit their stomach will forget the schedule and their bodies will convert fat to glucose and they will “feel” fine.

I have read a book by a man in Europe who has trained rescue dogs for decades and he describes how, when the dogs go on location, they only give them water during the actual rescue operation because they actually perform at a higher level when Gluconeogenesis kicks in because dogs use about 40% of their energy eating, digesting, and eliminating food. The dogs “feel” great because they have a constant (not fluctuating supply as when they eat) of glucose and once the rescue operation is over they go back to eating. On another note they only feed the dogs every other day but let the dogs eat as much as they want. This is possible because dogs, unlike humans, have stomachs that will expand like an accordion and allow they to eat up to 8% of their body weight in raw food at one meal. This allows their stomachs to rest in between meals and thanks to GLUCONEOGENESIS the dogs feel great the rest of the time. Every third feeding they wait 3 days to feed them (in other words they feed them 3 times a week) because they do not want to train their stomachs to begin preparing for a meal at a set time. This more closely approximates the way these dogs ate for millions of years and works because of their inherent ability to use Gluconeogenesis to maintain blood sugar.

In nature when dogs would begin Gluconeogenesis it would also initiate a natural fasting condition which would naturally and painlessly help them detox – which is another process that helped them to stay healthy. I do a juice fast every few months and during that period I often which I were a dog and could use Gluconeogenesis to feel better.

You can learn more about Brothers Complete by reading Mike’s review or going to their web site at brotherscomplete.com or
by just clicking on my name. You might want to read the “Brothers Document” that is under the drop down menu “Why Brothers” to learn a bit more. Sorry for the confusion but your French bulldog babies will feel much better once they are on Brothers.

Got some concerns about the true value of the AAFCO. Per a recent article I read: ” The duty of the policing of thye pet food industry falls to the AAFCO. AAFCO review of pet food is strictly VOLUNTARY. Just because a product says “formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO” does not mean it was approved by the AAFCO or that it underwent feeding trials.
The AAFCO represents agricultral interests with products to sell – not the interests of pet owners, etc. It is controlled by the large pet food conglomerates. The source of pet food ingredients constantly change, since they buy their ingredients from the most COST-EFFECTIVE SUPPLIER. And cost is inversely related to the quality of the ingredients.”
How true or misleading are the above words?

I agree Mike P, and don’t claim otherwise, not to mention the amount of times I’ve posted exactly that. However, I would have thought, (Although I’ve only heard from reliable sources about the fact that their pet nutrition elective is a poor and insufficient one), that at the very least, it would be mandatory, that they know what levels of generic proteins and other nutrients, specific animals and breeds should ideally be privy to.

But there has to be a fine line between criticising the conventional thinking Vet, and recommending readers to consult with Vets when the going gets tough in being requested to answer veterinary medical type questions, even relating to what foods should be fed or ideal protein levels of a specific breed. A court of law, as an example, would entirely disregard this and similar websites not architected by Vets, if it came to sought expert advice on most of these many raised reader inquiries.

Gordon!, Thank you soo much for the advice! xoxo!

Mariana – You’re best off to consult a Veterinarian on your issue about ideal protein levels for a Yorkshire, and any other pet related concerns. There are many good on line ‘Ask a Vet’ forums. Just do some smart Google searching!

Hello everyone!
I need urgent help please!, I have a 1 year old yorkshire, I was reading the book, ¨yorkshire for dummies¨, and there It says that you shouldn’t feed your yorky with food that contains more than 22 percent of protein content, otherwise too much protein could strain yorkie’s kidneys. Most of dog food (dry) contains more than this amount of protein, even food made specially for yorkshires, what do you think about this? do you think the book is wrong? am i interpreting this the wrong way?

Thanks, Mariana

I have a lab puppy who has been having issues with food. We have tried nutro adn Eukanuba. But the issue is still there. She has been on Eukanuba for almost a month but the past two nights has gotten sick around 3 am. on Nurto she had the run after her being on it for 3 months. Any idea how to solve this issue and What is the best food for her to be eating?

Mike P-From what I have been told in classes and what not is that dogs eat grass, just because! I know thats not an explanation, some people say it is because of an upset stomach. My two were eating grass the other day. First time they have in a long time. I really do not think it is from her grain free food, becasue mine are on diamond naturals and as I said they were eating grass the other day. I do stop them only beacuse I do not know if the grass is treated or not. It was not in my yard, but during an outing. Hope this helps ease your mind. As far as I have heard from my professors they eat grass because they can.