Water… the Most Neglected of All Canine Nutrients

I know that excessive water intake can be a signal of a problem.

For example, I worked at a vet and we had a german shepherd in daycare (it was like a one-stop shop for dog owners, as it included boarding and grooming too) that was drinking a lot of water. It was panting a lot too, but when we told the doctor she immediately brought him to surgery. Turns out he flipped his stomach, and if he wasn’t operated on right away to fix it he probably would have died.

I don’t want to scare anybody with this story, just point out that it is important to monitor your pet. Whether that be water intake, food intake, urination, defecation, vomiting, diarrhea, and activity levels.

ty for replying she is on w d soft food mixed with hard food w.d. science diet. shes on 5 diffrent med’s also. my email is beauti0692000@yahoo.com if easier for u to help or talk thanks  corinna and maggie

i have a 8yr old female who is retaining water we had her drained.. she has loss all of her muscle mass and weigh’s only 47 pounds the vet said there is nothing they can do for her.. i need help soon this is my bestfriend in the whole world she means everything to me.. shes not in pain put i cant seem to find the issue she been tested for everything and all was normal.. they said a inflammed intestint.. please help

Brothers Complete and some Epigen Fish. Before that Instinct Duck & Turkey for the most part with occasional other brands. Also I use canned foods from Merrick and Addiction and Weruva, and Tripett. There’s lots of variety. I’ve probably used a dozen different kibbles in the last 2-3 years since someone told me about the other food I was using that was not good.  My next goal is to gather some recipes for some homemade raw.  I do have one recipe book.  Just trying to decide on a meat & bone grinder!

No, I use commercial raw (Natures Variety, Primal, occasionally other brands) mostly and periodically give them the plain raw. I also feed kibble.

LOL!!

Yes, I give them raw along with other raw parts – thighs, drumsticks, wings, necks.  As far as the heat, I’ve heard some good reviews on the Cool Coat.

http://www.pugvillage.com/forum/pug-health-care/116494-cool-coats-really-work.html

lol! it does seem like it helps, just looking at my dog, and imagining where/how heat is held against him, and picturing wind/breezes/air flow,
It seems a good idea.I’m completely self trained at this, and i have, in the past, totally botched his spring trims, oh, did i ever!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I stupidly once cut short, ALL the fur on the backs of his haunches—TOP HAIRS and all,and wow, did i ever regret that mistake.  It took over a year to even look halfway decent again. See, all his “undercoat” fuzz then was on full display, and it was oddest looking dog you ever saw.~~~~~~~~~~~~~Now, i actually use some hair-clips to hold the gorgeous top hairs out of the way, when i trim out his ‘wind tunnel’ and when  trim his skirt down, ~~~~~~i now have learned the hard way, to leave those top hairs alone.~~~~~~~~~~~Some of his top coat, i do trim/shape a bit here or there, but, i’ll never make mistake again, of trimming his skirt’s top hairs all the way short again.
~~~~~~~~~~my poor dog!for entire summer, everyone asked, “what happened to his fur back here?” rofl!

and lol, YES, i am, admittedly, obsessive and a bit overly protective of my dogs health.  No doubt at all of it.
and i learn something new all the time. still learning.

but, on the bright side, my idea of “spoiling” a dog, is taking him hiking, etc, keeping him busy, or teaching him more and more tricks (which he LOVES LOVES LOVES to do).
but, yeah, i truly do concern myself quite a bit with his health, fitness, comfort, activity, nutritional status, hydration status, busy-ness, happiness, etc.

but i just don’t/didn’t know enough about how much fluid my dog DOES need….but, then again, i admittedly do not know how much exactly he IS drinking….

He is more a rough coat, but, i’ve recently fell in love with the “SHEDMONSTER” and am doing a good job of helping remove his undercoat.  *seems* to be helping him tolerate heat a lil better.

I also trim his fur, and cut a “wind tunnel” through his skirt, as well.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My dog just really can NOT tolerate heat at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For outdoor work/hikes, etc, i douse him with water, from neck down,
otherwise, my dog can not not not not tolerate the heat at all, not at all.  
but, if i keep his fur soaking wet, he is fine.

Do you just make broth with meat or with soup bones?  I was thinking of using the chicken feet I have. Good cartilage in there…I usually just feed it to them.

http://www.eatmedaily.com/2009/09/offal-of-the-week-chicken-feet/

//”I see no reason to give him salty broth”//

me either, i agree 100%!!  i don’t give him salty broth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
yes, i have spent my career in E.R./I.C.U. for 30 years now, i know what a liter is! hee heeit just struck me as a lot of fluid per 24 hrs for a 50 lb creature, but, like you said i was not including fluid in his food though.  Plus, with so many bowls of water, just being refilled/refreshed all the time, i truly have no idea how much water my dog drinks in a day!!!!!!!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It just never *seems* very much.  I guess i need to really measure how much fluid per day my dog does drink, cuz he is a pretty active dog, he does agility, canine freestyle dancing, hiking, swimming, tricks training, etc.  Not every day, but several times a week.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  He is a border collie, so we HAVE TO keep him busy, to keep him sane.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I feel sorry for dogs who spend their days watching tv, i really do.  In my mind, that is almost a form of abuse, even if the dog tolerates it gracefully, what a rip off for the dog.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   Kaliberknl, sometimes, it seems my dog’s eyes get bloodshot on days i think he hasn’t drank enough fluids, is that just my imagination?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~btw, my scrollymarks~~~ are cuz i can’t seem to make paragraphs “last” in this forum today, ends up as one long paragraph.

wow, a liter a day for a 50 lb dog? i don’t think my 50 lb dog is drinking a liter per day….and more on days he is super active? wow.  

Yeah, i don’t restrict his water, i keep tons of fresh water bowls all over the house, and swap it out many times each day.
 i just only restrict his broth, cuz he DOWNS it, in huge amts, if i don’t.  which i imagine can’t be good for him. to drink huge whopping amt of fluid all at once.  I think, if i set out a liter of plain broth, he’d drink it in one sitting, which i think, would not be good.   He won’t do that with water, but he would with broth!!

I’m not sure if our water is fluoridated/chlorinated.  guess i’d better drag out that water-filter pitcher again, and filter all his water.  i had not thought of that.THANK YOU FOR ALL ADVICE AND TIPS!!

Are you offering chlorinated or fluoridated water? Many municipal water treatment pants use both. Discerning animals will avoid consuming that water, as both are neurotoxins. Encouraging the dog to drink it by masking the toxins with meat broth, circumvents your dogs instinctive self protection mechanism. If your not already, try offering filtered or RO water. Then the dog will naturally drink what he needs. Hope that’s helpful. :-}

anyone know how much water a dog needs per day?  I’d imagine it is based on heat, activity, and dog size, too.  any charts out there, anyone know?

also, i’ve begun offering broth, just plain water which i boiled meat in, with all fat skimmed off, and no salt, no spice, etc.
anyone know of any drawbacks to giving a dog plain, nonspiced, nofat broth to increase their fluid intake on hot days?

I measure and give him only 1 cup broth, (as well as fresh water, which he is not great at drinking).  I made mistake, and set out big huge bowl of broth, which my 50 lb dog consumed all in one sitting, which freaked me out,
i did not expect that, so i kept him quiet rest of day, worrying what i’d done.  Luckily, no harm came that i could observe, he just peed really really a lot for many many hours.

so now i measure it out, and give him 1 cup only.
ANY IDEAS how to know just how much fluid a dog needs?

Bob K

I realize and am aware of what you are referring to, but simply because there is lots of complexity in the food industry does not mean that in every case it is impossible to know the chain of events. 

As you say, very few food suppliers are as vertically integrated as Tyson who own and control their chicken farmers – and the processing of their food from cradle to grave. Do you really think it matters which farmer the initial egg comes from or the specific Tyson plant the final product comes from when they exercise such control over every aspect of the process? 

They are supplying the entire country with high grade chickens – do you think they should attempt this out of one single plant supplied with eggs from one single farmer? Genetic diversity makes for a much healthier option than just one supply I would think.

The plant we use to make Brothers has never had a food recall and one of the reasons is the care they take to choose and bring in human grade meat from suppliers like Tyson who exercise such control over every aspect of the process.

Do you purchase only chicken that is completely organic from a local farmer and only that one farmer – no other local organic farmers? I understand the tendency to feel absolute frustration when dealing with the food supply situation in this country for humans, much less dogs, but I think it more useful to attack the discrepancies at the  bottom of the dog food chain rather than cast general dispersions on a supply of meat for dog food that is human grade – and fastidiously processed, even for the human side of the food chain, which is where their product is designed and quality controlled for.

Given the general quality of “meat” that is served up for dogs in this industry I would have thought you’d be relieved to know that there is a company that goes to a lot of trouble to control every aspect of the food they are serving to humans, more so even than other human food suppliers, and that same quality food is being put into a dog food.

JP our quality control consultant – on the right testing a new batch of braided Bully sticks just arrived at The Doggy Store – but at the moment just ‘Chillin’ in sunny Fort Lauderdale says, “Wass UP?”

Antonio – While there are large companies like Con Agra, Archer Daniel Midland, Tyson, Brakebrush and several others the challenge is tracking and managing from farmer to plate or bag of kibble where the raw ingredients come from.  Ingredients are shipped and repackaged, relabeled, and often resold to other suppliers and distributors which is even a larger problem with smaller kibble producers who do not have contracts with the tier 1 food producers and use smaller suppliers whose sources are constantly changing.  Everyone likes to talk about trust but the reality is we constantly have eColli, Salmonella, etc….. issues on a monthly basis many of which we never hear about.  Due to spoilage and storage issues food products and ingredients do spoil even with the best intent ans trust.  I have been to at least a dozen food processing plants over the years and when you really drill down and ask about suppliers, traceability, sources of ingredients, the story sounds good but the reality is quite different and there are many sources of contamination and adulterization of the product.  Ask which farmers lamb is in your kibble, not who they bought it from since who they bought it from vary from day to day.  They can intermix sources in the warehouse since its all #1 Grade A Chicken breasts.  Those chicken breasts might ususlly come from Tyson but which Tyson plant, WHich batch, which farmer?  Then how was it stored, shipped, warehoused, etc……  Very complex supply chain, logistics and warehouse issues at many levels.

Antonio

You and I have both been to rendering plants and manufacturing plants but I don’t remember if I ever told you what the output of rendering plants that take in reject human food chain meat is….

In 2010 it was 5,900,000,000 pounds (that’s 5.9 BILLION pounds) and they are putting that meat into SOMEONE’s dog food – NOT Brothers, but someone is buying that stuff.

Also, how many here on the forum beside the known few have ever visited a rendering plant or pet food manufacturing plant?  That would be interesting to know before I even begin trying to explain further?

Antonio  – Large pet food companies usually use the same ingredients in many different formulas and brands they produce.  Few processed food mfgs. for both human and dog food know the actual source of the ingredients other than who they bought it from and even that is suspect since things are often repackaged, reprocessed, warehoused and tracked poorly.  The ingredient suppliers often change from month to month and perhaps batch to batch primarily due to cost management and availability.  Very few processed food mfgs. are good at tracking the ingredients they use from batch to batch and know who supplied the ingredients.  Its too difficult to accurately track ingredient sources back to specific farmers or first level processors.  I would not say its proprietary, they really don’t know as the ingredient sources frequently change.

It’s probably due to Audrey’s kidney disease but for me protein is the absolute most important..  When I first started here on DFA I posted a research article proving by-products were not as utilizable as meats.  I’ve stated that I prefer meats over meals as well for the same reason.  I will say however that I’m not opposed to quality by-products like clean organs..

No prob Labs..  I scratched my head and tried to remember when I might have said that..  Hee hee 

I may have lots and lots of time for posting over the next few days…  I managed to break my foot this morning.  Yep, I’m a klutz……..  Scored great drugs though  

Also, and Toxie, this is a question for you, wouldn’t ANY meat meal, regardless of quality, contain processed free glutamic acid?   

Hi Antonio, I agree with you. I think that a company probably uses the same ingredients in all formulas that they make. Like Diamond for example,they probably use the same chicken meal (and other ingredients)  in every product that they manufacture, from Kirkland to TOTW. That would explain why Shawna’s dogs can’t tolerate any Diamond products, because they use the same ingredients interchangeably.

Hi Antonio,
I can’t agree that there is minimal difference, unless we codify exactly what we’re agreeing to. I watched the video, too. What I noticed is the “premium” that she was testing against we’re foods like Iams, Science diet, Purina Pro, etc. not foods like the 5 star rated ones here. So while I can agree that there isn’t much difference between the grocery store brands and those “marketed as premium” that contain mostly grain based proteins and mystery meat products, I wanted to clarify that her choice of “Premium” foods, does not meet Dr. Mike’s standard.

I don’t believe that we can take the video as proof of what your claiming unless we take it out of context. Once we do that, it invalidates it as a source. She set up her test to show the marketing deception in that type of food. It is not relevant to a comparison of atypical (to mainstream “premium”) higher quality specialty dog foods.

It does show that there is marketing deception in those mainstream brands. That was what it was intended to show. She did a good job of that. I believe that her work is a large part of what inspired the higher protein, better sourced specialty pet food market.

Antonio – You bring up some very good points in my opinion. 

It is true that the “ideal diet” for most dogs would be a diet primarily of raw meat that is from animals that are fed with non GMO and pesticide free feed, graze on pesticide free grass, roam free in fields that are free of pesticides and other pollutants, are hormone free and antibiotic free, and a diet of this meat that is designed to be as varied and nutritionally balanced as our resident nutritionist, Shawna, can design them with her incredible depth of nutritional knowledge – along with whatever supplements or digestive enzymes they might need for added support. Of course there are options along these lines that are not the “ideal” but still effective.

However, what I think I’m hearing from you is a plea for more information to help those who do use kibble as their main food source for their pets. Our experience in the store over the years is that as much as we try to convince owners to feed raw the vast majority of them feed kibble – for whatever reason, right or wrong doesn’t matter to me because the real issue here is the dog’s health. Since well over 95% of dog owners are going to feed kibble then it seems you’ve made a good point when you address the practical problem of how do we differentiate between kibbles as far as their impact on the health of our animals.

We actually did do feeding trials but not as AAFCO would have dictated. With thousands of customers to choose from we simply put dogs on different diets and watched them over the years. My feeling is that you should “see” the difference in them and not just that they should still be alive after so many months. 

I think there is much more of a difference between the different 5 star foods than most realize. It’s all too easy to lump them all together for convenience sake but, but as is the case in much of life, the difference is in the details.

The feeding trials are VERY expensive and the information is so general as to be useless to anyone like Brothers who really want to excel. They were mostly designed to alleviate any concerns that these commercial concoctions of chemicals might not provide nutrition for dogs sufficient to keep them alive. However, i do think that there is a way to help you discern a difference between kibbles that are all 5 star. Let me think about it and I’ll put something over on the Brothers thread when I put it together.

Below is Pierre’s rescue – JP who is one of our quality control inspectors at Brothers. Here he is testing the quality of a braided bully stick recently arrived. He does this on the side when he is not running his dog doctor practice.

Antonio,

By the way, I forgot to apologize for the excessive length of that CBC video. I agree, it drags a bit.

The only reason I suggested watching it was to show you how Purina uses its results out of context when marketing some of its products.

Mike,

Interesting video.. kind of long as well , but I forced myself thru it.  Most of the things mentioned in the video are pretty much already revealed about pet food since the 2007 recall, I do find it laughable the part about mixing the motor oil, leather boots, etc and passing AAFCO testing, I think this might be a bit overboard for the simple reason AAFCO does mandate that ingredients are listed on the package so that product would have immediately been pulled from production LOL.  But the video does make some interesting opinions.  I think my point is being missed I’m not saying that doing feeding trials are a sure way of resolving the issue, but is it really that expensive to feed a product that a company says is good to a animal to see if it’s really good, and while the Purina Dog Chow test was flawed for lack of a control group eating a different brand other than purina at least they did try some form of testing to prove that dogs can live breed age standard lives plus 1.5 healthy years on their products (in my opinion that beats nothing at all).  I’m still not sure what to make of Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins claims I think there was some truths but I also think some claims she makes sound like the words of a bitter “Former Hills Science Diet Employee”.  I honestly don’t think there is a perfect diet of any kind HUMAN or PET, but I do think with efforts of those demanding better products we will see improvements but that perfect diet may never exist.

Hi Anthony,

Unfortunately, the results of Purina’s 14-year study you mention here have been exaggerated by the company and can be quite misleading. For proof, please see this video produced by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and readily accessible from this website.

Also, how can one compare two dog foods when one has been through such feeding trials and the other has not?

Does testing automatically make the tested product superior?

What if the untested product was the truly better formulation? But because it wasn’t tested (usually due to the extreme costs incurred to conduct field testing), we would have no way of confirming its true superiority.

The only test that could possibly reveal which product of the two was truly superior would be scientifcally conducted A/B testing the two against each other.

And nothing else.

Unfortunately, testing is valuable, but simply overrated. Simply field testing, no matter how elaborate, cannot ever reveal the true superiority of any food product.

Hi DFN and Shawna!

Yes, I’m having issues with Disqus. When I first set it up I tried to link it to my Toxed2loss page, which I do with every other blog I’m on. They linked it to my private page and spewed all The private business of my friends and family. So i fixed it. Then they unfixed it. Several times. I even removed the “link to Facebook.” Buthere’s re-linked it. So I closed that account, but they still kept making changes that I didn’t want. I’ve been emailing them, and Dr. Mike has been great. Hopefully they’ll have worked it out. Fingers crossed. They say that it’s supposed to revert to my Gravatar, account, but that hasn’t happened yet. When it changes back to the gravatar I started with (masked), we’ll know they fixed it.

Test three…

Hey Toxie!  You having some kinda trouble with the new system?  What’s with the tests? 

I should also mention, I am toying with the idea of feeding raw (at least the dogs) once the GD goes to the dog park in the sky. I don’t think I could manage it right now with three dogs, one of them large.

There’s nothing out of line with that question!    actually, Mike has mentioned several times that doing a “catfoodadvisor” is something he’s working on.  But really, I have learned more on this website about cat AND dog nutrition then any other website.  Just take the same lessons you learn here and apply them to cat food.  If you look at the ingredients of, say, Blue Buffalo Wilderness Chicken for dogs and for cats, they are very similar.  Cat food tends to have (and SHOULD have!) more protein, as cats are OBLIGATE carnivores where are dogs are carnivores with omnivorous abilities. Just read as many of Mike’s articles, reviews, and user comments are you can until you know how to read a pet food ingredient label, then simply apply that to cat foods!  Chances are, if something is a 5-star dog food (like Blue Wilderness) it would also be a 5-star cat food.  

Antonio, bud, the validity of feed trials is laughable.  Companies like Hill’s that
use them do so because they can seem like an authority in the industry,
make their product appeal to misinformed consumers, and concoct ways to
keep animals alive on cheaper and cheaper ingredients.  While I agree
that there is a lot of fluffing on the ingredients lists of many
“premium” dog foods, I still don’t think that feeding a dog corn, wheat, soy,
and chicken by-products that have the “correct” ratio of nutrients and
micro-nutrients is somehow healthful, long term.  There are good reasons
that corn, wheat, and soy are the big “hot-button” ingredients
semi-informed consumers look to avoid in their pet’s food… all 3 of
those ingredients are full of anti-nutrients and other harmful
properties.   

Like Mike reiterated, it’s food, not rocket science.

Have a look at this…

“Let us also look at the actual AAFCO feeding trials
themselves. Are these really the ‘Golden Seal of Approval’ that pet
food manufacturers make them out to be? AAFCO feeding trials consist of
at least eight dogs being fed the same diet for a mere 26 weeks
(approximately
six months). During this time, 25% of the dogs (so, two animals) can be
removed from the test and the dogs eating the food can lose up to 15% of
their weight and condition; the
food will still pass the test and be labeled “complete and balanced.”
But extrapolate these figures to the number of animals eating this food
for much longer than 26 weeks and you will
have much more of a problem! If a food caused dogs to start losing
condition over the 26 week period yet still passed, imagine how many
animals would fail to thrive in real life while being fed this food for
years?

As long as the remaining dogs in the trial appear
healthy and have acceptable weights and certain blood values, the food
passes and is considered ‘complete and balanced’ nutrition for whatever
lifestage for which it was tested (puppy, adult maintenance, geriatric,
etc.)…..”

Read more at http://rawfed.com/myths/standards.html

Hi Antonio,

Regarding feeding trials, it’s my personal opinion that feeding trials are overrated. They’re more important when you are using dog food as a “feed”. When a particular commercial food is the only product you feed your dog.

In that case, the manufacturer must be absolutely certain the diet is 100% spot on perfect. The product must be as close as one can get to a nutritional home run.

But how can any human engineered factory designed food pellet be considered a flawless, 100% nutritionally perfect replacement for any animal natural diet? That’s a pretty lofty assumption.

I consider perfection in a commercial diet to be elusive. And I prefer to see a pet’s diet varied as it would occur in nature.

This rotation style of feeding assumes no dog food (whether or not it has undergone feeding trials) can ever be perfect. And it should be considered valuable due to its ability to diversify a dog’s long term menu.

No young ones myself, but I do foster. Maybe surrounding it with something or putting it somewhere somewhat protected (like in a corner) would work. I imagine it would be real heavy. I’ve got time to think about it. Gonna wait till the springtime.

Sounds like more trouble…glad I asked. Thanks for the input. My hose is unhooked right now ready for the winter freeze. No poopsicles needed or wanted here!

Straight up! Marie. Which office do you apply for the poo-permit in Sandy? GFETE

Didn’t realize getting rid of poop required a city permit or went against any city ordinances!! He-he!

I would just dig a big hole and dump the poop down there and cover it with a thin layer of dirt daily and hit it with the hose, but I have a feeling that’s illegal within city limits.

What’s a dry climate for you? I’m in the south Dallas/Ft Worth. Pretty wet springs and falls. Maybe I could use them half of the year?? I’ll keep them on the “back burner”. My “dog project” list keeps growing…

Yes, it would be on the concrete porch 8×8 covered and then 30×6 right next to it. I wonder how many Doggy Dooley Septic Tanks would I need to keep up with a dozen dogs = 2 dozen dog patties a day? Haven’t ever used these before, but thinking about it.

http://www.petedge.com/product/Home-Kennel/Outdoor-Products/Yards-Waste-Removal/Doggie-Dooley-Pyramid-Tanks/pc/194/c/227/sc/443/56164.uts

Oh, and you’re welcome of course!

I’m thinking a 2 gallon fish tank with filter wouldn’t be so bad on the back porch especially when warm weather comes around again. A dozen dogs go through alot of water!! Awesome idea!!

Toxed: Actually, whether or not it reduces bacterial load is dependent on if you decide use any filter media in the filter. In aquariums (I promise to get to a point with this; after all, it is for all intents and purposes an aquarium just sans fish) the filter serves three different types of filtration purposes – mechanical, biological, and chemical.

Mechanical filtration is just that – it physically catches bits of debris that might be circulating in the water and removes it by catching it within the filter media. It’s what most people think of when they think of, say, a pool filter (and that’s main purpose for a filter system in a swimming pool) but in a fish tank, it’s usefulness is somewhat limited. However, if things DO fall in my cat’s little drinking tank, it will be caught by the filter and I can easily remove it without moving the whole thing, which is nice.

Now we get into the real meat of aquaria keeping – the chemical and biological filtration. These instigate and maintain the nitrogen cycle within a tank, which is critical if you are keeping live fish. Now, in this particular instance, I am not keeping fish, but it still serves a purpose. In most commercial filter pads (and especially in this brand) there is a decent amount of activated carbon. Carbon is what us aquatic nerds rely on for the chemical filtration of the tank. Activated carbon draws out the ammonia from tap water (or, in the case of live fish, the ammonia from their waste,whatever food they didn’t eat, or tankmates that have died that are rotting on the bottom. This is why you never should overfeed nor allow a dead fish to remain for long – it can kill other fish in hours). But for the purposes of a pet water fountain, it works to neutralize any ammonia in tap water. It’s nice to just pour it directly in the tank without having to pre-filter it yourself.

Now to sort of answer your original question – Does it reduce bacterial load? The answer is…not really. The inclusion of the filter media gives the bacteria much-needed surface area to grow on. In aquaria, this is a GOOD thing. The bacteria (biological filtration) enhance the chemical filtration by “eating” the ammonia. I won’t get into too much boring detail about the whole nitrogen cycle, but the presence of ammonia (and nitrates, but that’s a total tangent) is what encourages bacteria to grow. Now, here’s the catch – if the bacteria present and the activated carbon consume all the ammonia in the water, then the bacteria start to die off after a short while because they are being starved. (Please note that I am referring to a particular species of bacteria that is known to be fairly harmless). There are not steady sources of ammonia to feed the bacteria because there are no fish. Now, if pieces of food fall into the tank, or something similar, then perhaps that would be an issue. But bear in mind, the tank is made of glass and holds over two gallons of water – enough, I would think, to dilute most problems.

Also, I built it because my cats seemed to prefer ‘fish’ tank water to straight tap, and I didn’t want them falling into my larger tanks and drowning because of that craving. So I threw up my hands and said “To hell with it!” and just gave them their own.

I hope that answers your question….but maybe not, LOL!

Air eating it?! That’s soooo great! I love it!!!! That should reduce bacteria! Does it? I have to know?!! GFETE

Yeah, it’s like I made them a fountain for $20. I attached a Tetra Whisper filter to the short end of it, and the water constantly moves and gets filtered. I figure if it can keep a fish alive, then it’s more than safe for a cat (or a dog) to drink.

Oh, and a small glass fish tank for their water.

Oh dear, I didn’t proof read very well. I meant to say “scum builds up faster…” darn auto correct!

The idea behind the big bowl is the germs are less concentrated, more of the water is fresh.

Gordon, no, I don’t hate you! (or Jonathan aka dog food ninja) I learned from that debate, that I shouldn’t argue or try to change anyone’s mind, or their beliefs. To each their own, live and let live, whatever trips your trigger.LOL

Gordon – Funny! No, white tea isn’t “normal tea that you add milk to”. White tea is better than green tea, in most respects.
White Tea vs. Green Tea
“White tea is tea leaves that are picked before they open fully, when the buds are still covered in fine, white hairs.” and “studies have shown that the young, white tea leaves retain antioxidants in higher concentrations than green tea does. Studies have shown that white tea has a concentration of antioxidants that is three times higher than in green tea.”
[Link to malware infected website removed by Moderator]

Hey Gordon, I “borrowed” Trinity from the Bible. It stands for Father, Son, Holy Spirit. 3 in 1.

That’s right! North Carolina is where I heard on the news that Irene was going to hit, and not Florida. DFN might be bunkering down as we speak (write).

Gettin kinda personal huh Gordon ? ! –
Michelle is right, tub or shower :=) I take QUICK showers. Hopefully next year, the fluoridation will cease in our county. FYI – some areas of Florida don’t have water fluoridation.

As of 2004, per that article by Suzin – “Whole house filtration is necessary if your water supply is fluoridated because there is no shower filter on the market capable of removing fluoride”.

I have enough cash for Real Food, but … no, I’m not in the wealthy category of having excess funds to purchase a whole house water filtration system, just like I don’t have hurricane shutters, or a house alarm system (dog does that job!)

Hurricane Irene hit North Carolina (DFN Jonathan?) and is heading north. We have nice breezy weather here on the west coast of Florida. http://www.weather.com/

Gordon, thought I saw a hand in that pic. Trinity is very well behaved and obedient, thanks for noticing. Yeah, I believe her water is fluoridated.I think limiting exposure, as much as possible is the answer, I don’t think anyone can totally avoid fluoride. Jk about the tub/shower, smart ass, I know.

I couldn’t get my JRT to pose for a proper portrait like you have with your Lab, Michelle, so I used my left hand as extra support when prompting her to keep her face straight. Terriers just have “ants in their pants”.

I know a tub or shower, lol. But doesn’t Florida supply fluridate water. At least, that’s what Shameless stated before. So I was wondering how one would avoid cleaning themselves in it?

Speaking of Florida, had that cyclone Irene, passed through yet?

The problem is, no matter how much you try and avoid fluoride, you’re unfortunately, going to still consume it in one way or another, via different food, skin care, etc products. Not all, but I’d imagine it would be impossible to avoid it entirely, given you just can’t stop manufacturers using not filters in their water supply, as just one example as how you may sill get it.

Shawna, another great reason not to use cheap dog foods that contain “bone meal” and “animal by-products”. Not to mention all the other junk they throw in!

Environmental Working Group found high levels in bone meal (and therefore dog foods) too.

“Dog Food Comparison Shows High Fluoride Levels
Eight major national brands marketed for both puppies and adults contained fluoride in amounts between 1.6 and 2.5 times higher than the Environmental Protection Agency’s maximum legal dose in drinking water, and higher than amounts associated with bone cancer in young boys in a 2006 study by Harvard scientists (Bassin 2006). All 8 brands contain bone meal and animal byproducts, the likely source of the fluoride contamination.” http://www.ewg.org/pets/fluorideindogfood

Hi, another concern is that fluoride is absorbed through the skin. So brushing would give it instant access to the bloodstream. http://www.healthcarealternatives.net/removingfluoride.htm

Shawna – The 5-minute video link I listed above has a dentist describing the concerns, as well as he also has a demonstration of a pea-size glob of toothpaste:
http://products.mercola.com/water-fluoridation-dvd/

Michelle – Glad to know this provided some beneficial information for you.

Topical application of fluoride isn’t as controversial as ingesting fluoride. As stated in the Mercola article “When topically applied (e.g., through the use of toothpaste), pharmaceutical-grade fluoride can help prevent tooth decay. However, fluoride that is ingested provides little to no preventative protection against tooth decay.”

Toothpaste fluoride is pharmaceutical grade. Fluoride added to municipal water is generally a contaminant byproduct of the phosphate industry.

Water fluoridation is one of my Pet Peeves, especially because we lost the fight in our county seven years ago. Our county commissioners are currently considering stopping fluoridation. Why? Not because water fluoridation causes harm, but because of budget constraints!

I notice that a different video is now at the link. It’s about 5 minutes:
“Is Your Water Loaded with Drugs?”
http://products.mercola.com/water-fluoridation-dvd/

Most dentists I know (I work for a dental surgeon, my only ‘client’ I kept since retiring – mostly because he’s so nice and so very cool) when you have a heart-to-heart chat with them, they support TOPICAL fluoride application only and admit that fluoride ingestion is not recommended. Of course, few will go public with their views. In our county, it was only a few of the ‘alternative’ holistic dentists who had the courage to speak publicly about the risks and ineffectiveness of water fluoridation.
Some bottled water companies now put fluoride in some of their water offerings. And most people don’t pay attention!
My dog doesn’t consent to being drugged via his doggie water bowl!

Too true Gordon – about government puppets…….
Our county government was a tad bit embarrassed when they voted to medicate us by adding fluoride to the water supply. It was a 180 degree turn from their decades-long stance on the issue. The problem? They forgot to remove their archived website information touting the risks and ineffectiveness of fluoridation. The archived articles stated the opposite of their new stance. All of a sudden, fluoridation is ‘safe and effective’ when it previously wasn’t.

Last day to watch the film for FREE: Fluoride Awareness Week
Professional Perspectives – Fluoride and Medical Ethics
“… fluoridation is neither safe nor effective.”
http://products.mercola.com/water-fluoridation-dvd/

More info – http://www.fluoridealert.org/

Maybe Mike, being a dentist, can get permission to post the film on DFA?

August 13th is the last day for FREE film preview – in celebration of Fluoride Awareness Week
Professional Perspectives – Fluoride and Medical Ethics
“… fluoridation is neither safe nor effective.”
http://products.mercola.com/water-fluoridation-dvd/
Did you know that no doctor could ever do to you what your local water company is likely doing to you right now?
That’s because it is illegal and unethical for a doctor to:
• Prescribe you a drug without your consent…
• Give you a drug in a non-specific dosage…
• Fail to monitor the effects of that drug upon you…
Yet, your water authority can load up your tap water with a “one size fits all” fluctuating dose of a drug – fluoride – and deliver it to you without your consent and without any way of knowing who in your household is drinking it, how much, and how it’s affecting you.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/08/11/sulfuryl-fluoride-what-is-it-the-story-so-far.aspx?e_cid=20110811_DNL_art_1

It appears that the shortcut link to the fluoride video has been deleted, but the video can be accessed through Dr. Mercola’s website:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/08/07/professional-perspectives-documentary.aspx

Professional Perspectives – Fluoride and Medical Ethics
“… fluoridation is neither safe nor effective.”
FREE film preview through August 13th in celebration of Fluoride Awareness Week (Aug 7 – 13)

Gordon, I agree, dumbing us down would make us easier to control…… I always wondered why it says on fluoride toothpaste DO NOT SWALLOW, “if more than used for brushing is swallowed, call poison control center” or “supervise children under 3 to eliminate swallowing”. If fluoride is so poisonous,and we shouldn’t swallow it, why does the government put it in our water?

Gordon – Is your tap water fluoridated? Did you watch the video?
Professional Perspectives – Fluoride and Medical Ethics http://vimeo.com/26777907
FREE to view this week August 7 through 13 – Fluoride Awareness Week
It’s best to watch the entire 28 minutes, but if you’re short on time, at least watch the last few minutes, from 24:50.

Hi Richard – A bit young, but not by much. That was my older brother with the STOP WAR signs after my oldest brother enlisted! I’ve participated in my share of war protests since then.

Fluoride Awareness Week – - Has your dog been prescribed fluoride? Probably not! Is your dog ingesting toxic fluoride in tap water every day?
Ever since my municipal water supply was fluoridated in 2004, we don’t drink the poison tap water.

Professional Perspectives – Fluoride and Medical Ethics
“… fluoridation is neither safe nor effective.”
FREE film preview through August 13th in celebration of Fluoride Awareness Week (Aug 7 – 13):
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/08/07/professional-perspectives-documentary.aspx

During my fluoridation protest days, I rallied with Paul Connett, PhD and William Hirzy, PhD, who are featured in the film.

More info – http://www.fluoridealert.org/

I give my dogs a bowl of dry dog with a lots of water in it,
They have to drink it before eating solids. The solid food does not get soggy as they quickly eat everything up.

So I have a 2 gallon gravity fed watering dish for Sadie. That’s no good?

Hi Mike,

My mini Schnauzer has this problem… she does’t drink water when no one is at home. She’s left alone at home when me & my husband are out for work. Her first meal is in the morning at 7.45am and she’ll drink some water to quench her thirst after meal. This will last her till evening when we both came back, fed her at 7.30pm and she’ll drink water after meal. We knew she didn’t drink because the water level is the same. Another round will be after her daily evening walk and a little bit more before bedtime.
Normally she sleeps through the day, is it because of zzz… she doesn’t feel thirsty? I really have no idea how to teach her to drink water when we are not at home. Even for peeing, she’ll do once in the morning and the next will only be when we are back at 7pm.

Candy