Suggested Low Protein Dog Foods

Oh My! Where to begin… Empirical data is what I’m all about : ) Empirical data is generated by experimentation/ observation. I’m not sure where you got the idea I don’t value data. I’ve always said I’m a data girl: )

What I’m not about is assigning cause to an informal observation, and then treating it as fact.

The OP assigned cause to her observation, I disagree with that. (Especially with diet as you can never only change one thing in the diet.) Observation does not rule out confounding variables. The placebo effect may be at play as well.

I’m not sure what you are looking for regarding research “linking protein to anxiety” It would be a logic fault to think that protein causes anxiety based on an observation that a low protein diet lowered the anxiety level in an anxious dog.

The only studies regarding protein and behavior I’ve come across are the ones I posted.

You would think you lived right by me. We’ve had rain and overcast for 2 days and I’ve had a storm headache the whole time. I definitely get Seasonal Affective Disorder, but not as bad as I used to, before they figured out my thyroid problem.

Melatonin works for me, but not for more than 3 days in a row.

I don’t think it works on me either. I never want a nap after Thanksgiving dinner. But it is super effective on my husband, like he’s been doped up. He can’t even drive across town after that.

I personally have had no luck adding tryptophan to the diet to calm my animals. My horse actually had the opposite reaction, but it is something to try that probably would not harm the dog. And it might help. Some people have found that it does, which is just as valid an observation as the OP.

Hi Pattyvaughn,

There are two published studies that I’m aware of that looked at dietary protein and aggression.

In the older of the two 3 different protein levels were fed and the conclusion was “reduction in dietary protein content is not generally useful in the treatment of behavior problems in dogs, but may be appropriate in dogs with territorial aggression that is a result of fear.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8575968

A second study evaluated the addition of tryptophan to various protein levels fed to dogs with aggression. IMO the study had some problems and isn’t a strong well done study. It is only after reading the full text that the flaws can be appreciated. However, I will say that I wouldn’t conclude that tryptophan levels as used in this study had any real influence on behavior.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10953712

There is always individual variation and if the poster has had success with lower protein levels in the diet that may well be a valid observation.

Low protein diets aren’t only considered due to kidney effects. We have our dog on a low protein diet due to his anxiety. It’s rare, but some dogs are protein sensitive and too much protein causes high levels of anxiety.

Where did you read that? I have never heard that before. It doesn’t sound likely but who knows

Plant proteins generally have a low biologic value for dogs. Ideally dogs should be eating high quality animal-derived proteins (meat, eggs, dairy).

Hi jjfordogs,

I’m not sure why but your most recent comments is “awaiting moderation” and has been for a while now?? If it continues you might want to bring it up to Dr. Mike. I can’t reply to that comment at this point so am putting here instead.

Marley is a lucky lady as well!! I would be devestated if my healthy puppy was poisoned resulting in kd.

Honest Kitchen is a wonderful food.. If it’s working for Marley than there is really no reason to modify things is there.. If you ever decide to experiment however, the data you linked to, and plan to use, is really impressive…

I can’t remember where I initially learned about nitrogen trapping but Iams Researchers is a source of info I used to educate myself. I have found that most, including vets, have no idea what it is however they prescribe products that act as nitrogen traps — Epikatin and Azodyl. I wasn’t happy with the ingredients in them, so set about looking for an alternative.

Nitrogen trapping is nothing more than utilizing certain probiotics and the prebiotics they feed on. The act of the probiotics feeding causes blood to rush to the colon (along with BUN etc). The bacteria then eat the BUN and the blood is reabsorbed minus some urea nitrogen – lowering the overall amount in the blood and sparing the kidneys from having to filter it. It then gets eliminated in the feces.

Initially I tried pectins from apple and grapefruit but it seemed to make things worse. I then tried barley but it caused a horrible negative gi reaction and food allergies. I also tried burdock root (which is the blood purifier of the herb world and a great prebiotic) but Audrey grew tired of the taste. Eventually, I settled on a prebiotic fiber called acacia fiber. There is a human product called Fiber35 Sprinkle Fiber that is 100% acacia fiber. I use Garden of Lifes Primal Defense as the probiotic. As BUN rises, nitrogen trapping can be HUGELY beneficial..

Here’s some Iams data on it http://www.canismajor.com/dog/iamssym1.html

Here’s a couple other products that may interest you.?

I haven’t used this but have mentioned it to others that have gone on to use it and reported back excellent results. It’s an herbal concoction that supports the kidneys and liver.
http://caninekidneyhealth.com/

I use a product made by Standard Process called “Canine Renal Support”. It is made primarily from whole foods and supports the kidneys as well as aids with inflammation which can prevent further damage. Audrey’s been on this product for 6 years. https://www.standardprocess.com/Products/Veterinary-Formulas/Canine-Renal-Support

You and Marley are in my prayers and thoughts!!!!

I am in no way advocating a low protein diet, such as that offered in K/D, as that can cause malnutrition, and a diet too low in protein when not necessary can place a lot of stress on the kidneys as well, but from all of my readings (http://www.windyhollowvet.com/Document/info/ChronicRenalFailureDiet.pdf for example) including the quote I cited earlier (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?dept_id=0&siteid=12&acatid=284&aid=459#answer_4), I have read that quality, moderate amounts of protein were best for dogs with kidney disease who were not uremic.

Also on dogaware.com (http://dogaware.com/health/kidney.html):

Are High Protein Diets Harmful to a Dog’s Kidneys? from the Veterinary Services Department, Drs. Foster & Smith, Inc.

“The myth that high-protein diets are harmful to kidneys probably started because, in the past, patients with kidney disease were commonly placed on low-protein (and thus low-nitrogen) diets. Now we often put them on a diet that is not necessarily very low in protein but contains protein that is more digestible so there are fewer nitrogen by-products.”

“Demystifying Myths About Protein from Today’s Breeder Magazine

“In contrast, research over the past 10 years or so has shown that protein does not harm the kidney of dogs. In studies conducted at the University of Georgia in the early 1990s, both in dogs with chronic kidney failure and in older dogs with only one kidney, protein levels as high as 34 percent caused no ill effects. . . . In other studies, David S. Kronfeld, Ph.D., indicated that compared with high- or low-protein diets, moderate-protein diets, those with up to 34 percent protein, had no ill effects in dogs with chronic renal failure and were
associated with general improvement.”

My dog has had kidney disease as well (and was placed on a prescription diet immediately, which I took her off off almost just as fast) since she was around 1 year of age. She is now 5 and thriving on a quality and moderate protein diet. I am very glad that your dog is doing just as well. Kidney disease is not what any animal lover wants for their furry family member. I just wanted to point out that most of the citations used to advocate a high protein diet on websites are usually in reference to a high protein diet causing kidney disease when on these same websites where the quote is obtained, it is also mentioned that a diet using quality, moderate amounts of protein is favored for dogs already suffering from kidney disease (but are not uremic).

Doctors Foster and Smith:

“Can I feed my dog too much protein?

If your dog eats too much protein, some will be excreted in the urine and the rest will be used as calories or converted to fat – causing your dog no harm. HOWEVER, IF YOUR DOG HAS A KIDNEY PROBLEM, HIGH PROTEIN DIETS ARE NOT RECOMMENDED. Most pet food companies slightly exceed the minimum recommended protein requirements to ensure that dogs get adequate protein from their food.”

This quote was taken from the same page as some of the other quotes you have provided in this article.

Just thought everyone should know this:

I couldn’t get my dog to eat the kidney diet dog food my vet prescribed (he hated it) for almost 1.5 years. THEN I discovered that after I’d made tuna fish salad spread, I could toss his dry dog food bits around in the EMPTY can (they collected a wee bit of tuna oil from the sides and bottom of the can) and then dump them in his bowl and he’d wolf them down. Checked with the vet – he said this was fine – it wouldn’t hurt him.

Just wanted to pass on the great news to any other owners having problems with the kidney dog food (PS: the tuna can was “tuna in OIL”, NOT “tuna in water” as so many are these days)

Oh – and a note to anyone who’s dog won’t take a pill …. mine will take a small rolled ball of bread (the size of my thumbnail) with the pill squished inside and will swallow that quickly IF I hold another small piece of bread next to his nose as I give him the pill ball. He’s so busy trying to swallow the first ball quickly to get to the second piece of bread, that he doesn’t even realize he got a pill.

Hi Pet Advocates,

Has your vet done a culture to determine the type of bacteria involved? Would help in knowing what antibiotic to give..

Senior dogs, they now know, actually need MORE protein as they are less efficient at digesting it. Nutritionist Lew Olsen quotes Dr. Kronfeld on her website “Dr Kronfeld reports that older dogs and dogs with compromised kidneys can easily process high quality proteins. He states that high quality proteins in percentages as high as 54% can actually kill bacteria in the kidneys and create an acidic condition that is healthier for these organs. This would be helpful for urinary tract infections and other bacteria in the dogs system.” She reports the same results in studies done by Dr. Bovee “The same studies concluded that high percentages of protein in the dogs’ diet also help to kill bacteria in the urinary tract.” http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/protein/

Whole Earth Farms Senior food only has 24% protein. That’s not enough for a healthy senior in my opinion.. If the kidneys are beginning to become compromised it is even more important to feed a “HIGH QUALITY”, higher protein diet. Oats and barley add a significant amount of lower quality protein (and phosphorus) to this food (relatively speaking).

Also, restricting phosphorus too much can have significant consequences and usually should not be done until the later stages of kidney disease..

Nutritionist Mary Straus also talks about the importance of feeding more protein to senior dogs. “Recent studies show that healthy older dogs may need as much as 50 percent more protein than their younger adult counterparts.” http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjseniordiets.html

Vet Dr. Karen Becker also reports on the newer data regarding protein and the senior pooch. “It’s an unfortunate situation, because your dog actually needs more protein as she ages – not less — in order to maintain healthy lean muscle mass and good organ and immune function.” http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/05/surprising-findings-from-tufts-study-of-37-senior-dog-foods.aspx

I may be wrong but it is my understanding that beta casein A1′s damage is not due to a genetic predisposition. Which opioid receptors the A1 binds to may be due to a genetic predisposition however?

I’m not sure how long I’ve had an issue with milk but I’ve had symptoms since early twenties. Wasn’t diagnosed til late thirties despite seeing multiple doctors about it. I think with dairy, pasteurization plays a big role. However, I personally can not tolerate raw either (or fermented raw).

I also think not properly preparing gluten grains has brought on a lot of symptoms that might not have occured if eaten as our ancestors ate them. Add to that the chemicals we spray on or feed (in case of cows) etc and could affect even more.

I’ve seen it over and over again on the different forums and groups I’ve been on as well as the classes I’ve been giving.

I do think things will change but maybe not for a long time. Word is spreading slowly. Dr. Mercola, Dr. Jordan Rubin, Natural News plus many many more are all discussing it.. Fingers crossed.. How many babies could be saved if mom and dad know about this info!!!!????

Regarding the diabetes research — did you read Woodfords comment? Went something like —- If we relied exclusively on research, it never would have been proven that smoking causes lung cancer… Empirical data must be considered in the equation when evaluating genetically predisposed diseases.

The Elliott study from Diabetologia was one of the studies critiqued in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

It does get confusing, doesn’t it.

ABSOLUTELY agree with you on that!!! Raw dairy, be it goat or A2 bovine, provides many health benefits. Especially if fermented.. I feed my crew Answers Goat Milk and if I could get my hands on raw A2 milk I would make home made kefir.. Maybe some day!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the link to the below data I posted. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8775294 (I’m on my laptop now).

“Even more pronounced was the relation between β-casein (A1 + B) consumption and diabetes (r = + 0.982). These latter two cow caseins yield a bioactive peptide β-casomorphin-7 after in vitro digestion with intestinal enzymes whereas the common A2 variant or the corresponding human or goat caseins do not. β-casomorphin-7 has opioid properties including immunosuppression, which could account for the specificity of the relation between the consumption of some but not all β-casein variants and diabetes incidence. [Diabetologia (1999) 42: 292–296]” http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s001250051153#

This one is a paid only paper but the title gives me chills “Relation of β-casomorphin to apnea in sudden infant death syndrome” http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0196978103001566

There’s a BUNCH more on google scholar.

Hi HDM,

When searching I have found the most info when using BCM-7 or its scientific name beta-casomorphin 7 as the search criteria. Here’s a few samples.

I’m not able to copy from this article but please read it.. He has 63 sited references. http://keithwoodford.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/woodford-jul-2011-journal-of-integrative-medicine.pdf

“Skin tests with opioid peptides naturally occurring in cow’s milk: beta-casomorphin-7 and alpha-casein (90-95), were performed in 25 healthy children. Wheal and flare reactions, similiar to histamine and codeine were observed in all children. The area of these reactions was concentration dependent. Pretreatment with H1 antagonist–cetirizine significantly inhibited the skin response to both peptides. Beta-casomorphin-7 and alpha-casein (90-95) are noncytotoxic histamine releasers in humans.”

God I HATE this iPad. It’s not allowing me to paste the reference.. Ughhh

Well a whole egg has a BV of 100, so a whole egg has a higher biologic value than milk. Egg whites only have a BV of 88 though, at least on the chart I was looking at.

I’m beginning to see that lol

No one was discussing using dairy to add supplemental calcium. Dairy only contains enough calcium to balance the phosphorus present in the dairy product itself – not enough excess calcium to balance the phosphorus present in meat as well.

The discussion was whether or not dogs are sensitive to dairy and whether or not dairy is a biologically available protein source. In your original post you stated that “Dairy is not handled well by most pets.” You also implied that dairy protein does not have a high biologic value by stating “The only thing I would add is not to feed your pets cottage cheese. They need high quality protein, meat, organs, and eggs.” All I’m pointing out is that the information you gave is incorrect. Most pets are not sensitive to dairy – some pets are sensitive to dairy. Also, dairy is not a low quality protein – cow’s milk has a higher biologic value than egg whites, fresh fish, fresh beef or fresh chicken Cow’s Milk BV = 91, Egg Whites = 88, Fish = 83, Beef = 80, Chicken = 79). If you choose not to feed your pet dairy products for other reasons, that’s fine. I’m just pointing out that these reasons you gave are not valid.

Are you kidding? Meat has plenty of phosphorous in it naturally. You really need to do a lot more research before you start trying to school others.

Most of the food we feed our pets is not a natural diet, we try to get as close as we can with the best ingredients possible.
The vegetables i feed my pets are mostly greens, a small amount of blueberries, and some sweet potato.
If one is trying to add calcium to their pet’s diet it needs to done with foods and/or supplements such as certified organic bone meal that also supply phosphorus.
Eggshells and plant calcium from coral do the same, the calcium to phosphorus ratio is not balanced.

Hi Erel –

You’re correct in stating that dairy isn’t a natural food, however your argument that it shouldn’t be fed for this reason falls flat. You yourself stated, on another thread, that you feed your dogs (I believe) 75% meat and 25% vegetables. Vegetables are not a natural part of a canine’s diet either (at least not the typical vegetables we buy in the grocery store – they do eat small amounts of grasses in the wild) and canines certainly don’t naturally eat 25% of their diet as vegetables. So basically you’re saying that it’s okay to force a dog to “tolerate” 25% vegetables in their diet but not okay to force them to “tolerate” dairy, that’s a bit hypocritical don’t you think? Unless someone is going out into the wilderness and shooting whole prey animals for their dog to consume on a daily basis (which is not practical) no dog is every going to be eating a truly “natural” diet.

You’ve heard me say this before but I do think people and pets should avoid dairy from Beta Casein A1 cattle. Goats do not have the same genetic mutation and is a much safer product. Plus, for people at least, it is far more nutritious I’ve read.

The problem with Beta casein a1 is that the damage can be done long before symptoms appear — heart disease, autism, damage to the pancreas to the point of causing type 1 diabetes etc..

Once enough people find out about A1 dairy and refuse to purchase it, the sooner our government (or industry) will eliminate it and start producing the much safer A2 dairy. Just my opinion

What I’m saying is that dairy is not a natural food for cats or dogs. If you want to feed your pets dairy, that’s up to you. And why do they need to “tolerate” it?

No, my pet is not having medical problems now. Your leaps in logic are amazing.

No, what I’m saying is that many pets, like people have issues with dairy, so I don’t feed it to my pets. If my pets were having problems with chicken, I wouldn’t feed them chicken,
Their are a number of meats, organ meats, sardines, salmon, and so on to feed them that are not processed.
Your pet is having medical problems now, it’s difficult to tell for sure sometimes what causes medical problems in pets. The more foods they are fed, the harder it is to find.

As long as the cover has pretty artwork on it you could make several million on it, and if you get some famous stupid person to write you a nice review or endorsement, well, I hate to think how much of a mint you could make.

i’m gonna come out with a book saying that after years of research i have concluded the perfect diet for dogs 25% protein, 25% fat, 25% carbs, 25% moisture. and im going to make a million dollars and at the bottom of pages like this in the references section there will be links to my “research”.

Since a moose is about 75% water it would have a hard time being 95% protein. Don’t even think about leaving room for fat on that thing.

Fat comes from fat. Meat has water, protein, and fat in it as well as minor amounts of other things.Fat does not come from protein. Somebody help please, I need to go bang my head against a wall now.

Absolutely! And that fat comes from their protein sources, organ meats, and eggs.

I add Krill oil to their diets, as well as coconut oil, and hemp oil too.
The carbs in wild diets come from the stomach contents of prey animals. And many people, Dr. David Mech, for one has studied wild wolves for decades notes that many times the stomach contents are shaken out of large prey animals.

The point I’m trying to make is that all these percentages that are being tossed around here are based on the AAFCO and other agencies, they are not based on any facts.

The fat content in commercial pet food is from rubbish collected from supermarkets, butcher shops, and old grease from restaurants. What ever floats to the top of the vat is collected and used for flavoring.

Cats for instance eat mice, birds, and other small rodents, their carb intake is very low, and so is there fat intake.

The fat comes from protein. Where else would they get it from?

Hi Erel –

Both foods Mel mentioned are indeed grain-free. While flax has many properties similar to those of grains, it is not technically a grain. Potato is not a grain either. I agree that potatoes are not species-appropriate foods or healthy components of the canine or feline diet – neither are the other starches used in grain-free foods (tapioca, chickpeas, peas, lentils, etc.). However, kibble must contain a starch to act as a binder. This is why canned foods, dehydrated foods, freeze-dried foods, raw foods and home cooked foods are superior to kibble – they can be formulated without starch.

I can tell you right now a whole moose is not 95% protein.

If your protein percentages are really that high, are you sure your animals are getting enough fat? We’re not talking about the percentage of the diet that comes from meat sources, we’re talking about the percentage of protein on a dry matter basis. There’s a difference.

My Bichon has never worked a day in his life. I feed him twice a day, 3/4 cup protein with 1/4 cup vegetables. My cats get about 80% protein, sometimes more. All of these percentages mean nothing. They are based on what they want the answer to be.

I’m not sure where they get their percentages from, but they are certainly way under the species appropriate diet of carnivores in the wild. A moose is about 95% protein.

Mel, those foods are not grain free, they contain flax seed and potatoes, while potatoes are not grains they high in carbs, and they are cheap fillers. A high carb diet will cause obesity, diabetes, and a number of other inflammatory diseases in pets as it does in humans. Especially considering your pets are not designed to eat grains.
They also contain fish meal, fish meals contain the most preservatives of any pet food product, and usually ethoxyquin is the preservative of choice. Ethoxyquin was produced by Monsanto to keep rubber tires from cracking, it’s been banned for years in food, but if it’s added by the Renderer, it doesn’t have to be stated on the food package.
The U.S. Coast Guard won’t allow fish meal to be transported on any vessel unless it is first preserved because the meal can become explosive as it dries.

My 5 year old Bichon gets 75% of his home food diet from proteins, my cats get about 85%. They are carnivores.
Personally I don’t trust the govt with any part of my life, they can’t even find their butt with both hands.

Thanks Marie!

One more..

Hi Shawna –

Mabel is doing great. She’s gotten so big. She’s not quite as tall as Gertie yet, but she already weighs more. She’s built like a tank – she’s got that thick bone structure bloodhounds are known for. I’ve got some new pictures of her but unfortunately disqus isn’t letting me post pictures today, I’ll try tomorrow.

Thanks HDM,

I took my numbers from the nutrient tables NRC 2006. I think we can see variable numbers based on the different studies and caloric density.

But all of them are quite a bit lower than AAFCO daily allowance to account for digestibility and sources I’d imagine.

Shawna… I did list the reported optimal based on drug excretion was as I remember 12% in adult dogs. But really percentages are variable depending on the caloric density of the diet, the individual dog and the source and processing. The studies as I said I recall were done with milk casein. It has been awhile since I read them.

I TOTALLY agree…

Unfortunately, I can’t say that raw is the only factor. I’ve had both my Poms since they were both six months old. They’ve had the same minimal vaccines, no chemicals, raw diet etc. But they both react negatively to the rabies vaccine, they were two of the three to get fleas etc. My guess is that they both came from puppy mills and had a less than ideal start to life (including nutrition while forming).

Your three, I’ve gathered, are from quality breeders.. And as such started out on a healthier note.

How is that little Mabel doing? Any current pics? Not so little any more I bet

All I can say is that I’ve always needed to use chemical preventative until I switched to raw. Even when my dogs were on 5 star kibble/canned/dehdyrated they still got fleas unless they were on Advantix or Frontline.

I wondered where Fosters and Smith took their recommended percentages from as it wasn’t referenced. I think it is only a coincidence that the recommended 18% is the same as AAFCO’s min. as none of the other recommended values match AAFCO.

NRC 2006 reports min protein for adults at 8% DM when caloric density is 4000 kcal/kg and recommended at 10%. As I remember these studies came from highly digestible proteins of high BV. I think milk casein was used in a lot of them.

From memory when I read through the literature the min. protein req. to maintain nitrogen balance was 8% and the optimal protein recommendation (based on drug excretion) was 12 %

That said I prefer to see higher protein than these levels in processed kibble.

re: fleas, ive always wondered about that. how do you go about making your dog healthy enough to where they don’t need any kind of insecticide flea treatments?

the 67% number came from the fact that calories in food come from either protein, fat or carbs. if a food has low protein and low fat then it will have high carbs, that’s just how it works. to me that is kind of the basis of wanting a high protein diet. because low carbs and medium fat will automatically make it high in protein. dogs dont really need carbs and they need fat but not too much of it so ideally they should get protein somewhere in the 27-50% range.

Hi Melanie,

The 18% shown on Drs Foster & Smith website is actually the AAFCO’s MINIMUM requirements allowed for an “Adult” dog food. This amount is not optimal but rather minimum. Also from Dr. Foster & Smith website http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659&aid=662

The other thing to note in the link you provided form Dr. Foster & Smith “Can I feed my dog too much protein?
If your dog eats too much protein, some will be excreted in the urine and the rest will be used as calories or converted to fat – causing your dog no harm.”

Sometimes the “symptoms” we see when increasing protein in the diet are not really a bad thing. Here’s why I say that —–

Glutathione is the “master antioxidant” of the body and is made from three amino acids (in protein) and vitamins. When we give the body more of the nutrition it needs to create more glutathione (like protein) the liver and kidneys are better able to remove toxins from the body. http://drhyman.com/blog/2010/05/19/glutathione-the-mother-of-all-antioxidants/

The Environmental Working Group tested dogs and cats for toxins and found this — “Of the 70 chemicals tracked, 48 of them were present in the animals. Of those 48 chemicals, 43 of them were at levels much higher than what is typically found in humans.” http://medheadlines.com/2008/04/household-toxins-more-dangerous-to-pets-than-people/

Toxins even come from the food we feed them. Vet Dr. Demian Dressler of the dog cancer blogs article — “Dog Food: Is There a Cancer Risk?” He explains in the article how the high temperatures of extrusion turn the proteins and carbohydrates in the food into carcinogens. He also talks about apoptosis in the article “When there are too many cells with their growth genes stuck in the “on’ position, avoiding apoptosis, cancer can develop.” http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-food-is-there-a-cancer-risk/

Apoptosis is initiated by enzymes called caspases. Caspases, all enzymes (including the ones needed to digest foods eaten) are made from the amino acids in protein. So logically, a deficiency of these amino acids means a deficiency of enzymes——-including those that prevent cancer. In all fairness, protein deficiency is not the only reason apoptosis is not initiated, viral and bacterial infections can cause it too..

“Before the actual process of cell death is precipitated by enzymes, apoptotic signals must cause regulatory proteins to initiate the apoptosis pathway. This step allows apoptotic signals to cause cell death, or the process to be stopped, should the cell no longer need to die. Several proteins are involved, but two main methods of regulation have been identified: targeting mitochondria functionality, or directly transducing the signal via adaptor proteins to the apoptotic mechanisms.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apoptosis

One final thought, quoted from an article written by Veterinary Naturopaths Dr. Jeannie Thomason and Dr. Kimberly Bloomer. “Since you have now begun to feed a more natural diet (especially raw), the body is now, finally, able to assimilate nutrients it can use and desperately needs. Once the immune system can finally utilize all those valuable, necessary, essential nutrients, the body then takes action to get the junk or toxins out….

All pets react differently to healing and detoxing, depending on their age, health, and how long they were given commercial diets, vaccinations, etc. Your pet�s symptoms may range from non-existent, to mild to severe. Some symptoms you might notice are: diarrhea, vomiting, itchy skin, pustules or oozing skin, ear infections, eye discharge, anal gland problems, and so on. These reactions are the body�s own way of ridding itself of the accumulated toxins. ” http://www.thewholedog.org/artHealingCrisis.html

This is a guess but I would bet money that if you asked those six vets you spoke with what glutathione is they (or most at least) wouldn’t know. Most I’ve spoke with don’t.
Sorry for the length of this.

Holy moly! That link indicated that the recommended protein for my adult dog was 18% protein and at the highest 15% fat ~ leaving the recommended dry matter basis for carbs at a whopping 67%! What am I missing here?

Hello InkedMarie,

I did post the link at the end of my post. I’m not in any position to pull out numbers from the air to make a statement!

I have called around and spoken (briefly) to different vets asking for an ideal amount of protein for my dog because I thought higher was better thanks to this site. But that didn’t seem to be the case for her. I wanted to know if high levels of protein really was good for ALL dogs. Heck, I wanted to know what exactly was considered “high levels.” 60%? 30%?

Maybe 35% is high, and 50% isn’t just a high level but “super high” level!

I spoke to a total of 6 vets and each said that the exact number didn’t really matter for my dog, and that in general as long as the protein was between 20-30% then it would be healthy for most dogs. Healthy as in not too low.

I can continue calling around and begin recording which vet said what, but for personal reasons it was satisfactory enough that 6 different vets said 20-30% is a healthy range for most dogs. Why was this good enough for me? Because my dog’s body’s response to the higher protein spoke louder than what I was reading online.

Why did I post to begin with? I just wanted to let people know that not every single healthy dog will do well on a high protein formula, and I think that’s okay. As long as they’re getting good quality foods where the protein comes from high quality sources, then I think all is well for the dog.

My dog is a completely healthy and young 35lb American Eskimo mix. She has been on a lot of different foods. The highest protein level she had that she did well on was Kirkland’s Nature’s Domain Grain-Free which was about 27% max. protein. No matter what I switched her to, her stool was normal. When I switched her to Canidae Grain-Free pureELEMENTS, I gave it 3.5-4 weeks transition. Her stool was still very loose. One month later, it remained mushy-loose. On days where she had longer exercise, I fed her more and on those days it would be even looser.

I had given it 1 month for the transition from the old food, and 1 month of just the Canidae. She didn’t adjust. It never took this long for her to adjust to a food before. I bought Wellness Simple Grain-Free Salmon and her stool went back to normal almost instantly.

Not all dogs are the same. What is best for one dog isn’t best for another. It should also be realized that for the average non-working dog, 18% protein is what is recommended. Feeding 27% is higher meaning that although this is less than people feeding closer to 50% protein, I don’t think it’s bad feeding foods with 25-30% protein levels! And I don’t think they should be considered inferior levels of protein for adverse dogs. Just my opinion.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?dept_id=0&siteid=12&acatid=284&aid=459#answer_3

I HAVE A 4 YR OLD FEMALE MALTIPOO THAT HAD SURGERY TO REMOVE BLADDER STONES APPROX. 4 WEEKS AGO. I HAVE BEEN FEEDING HER CANIDAE KIBBLE / CANNED FOOD. THE VET NOW WANTS ME TO FIND A LOW PROTEIN FOOD FOR HER. CAN SOMEONE RECOMMEND A LOW PROTEIN HIGH QUALITY FOOD ? SHE DOESN’T HAVE KIDNEY DISEASE–SO DOES SHE REALLY NEED A LOW PROTEIN DIET? DR. B RECOMMENDED HILLS SCIENCE DIET–

i have an 8 month dalmatian dog – apparently dalmatian dogs (only dogs, not bitches) have unique urinary tract problems and a low protein diet is preferrable? i am now so confused i would appreciate some simple advice please. thank you for caring.

my (f) 4 yr old maltese/poodle had bladder stone surgery two weeks ago. my vet has recommended that I feed her a low protein diet—-is this really necessary? I have two other small dogs and i’m wondering if I can feed them the same low protein food- ?-they are all about 4yrs old.(pound puppies)

Hi Chiquita’s mom, I’m really sorry to hear about your dog. I believe acupuncture did help my dog. He was terminally il however and passed away 5 years ago. He had inoperable bladder cancer that caused his kidneys to fail. But the acupuncture did improve his quality of life and with other therapies, gave him more months with us. If you have a vet near you that can perform it, I would recommend it highly. It also helped another of our dog’s quality of life during end of life illness. I felt anything I could do to bring comfort was worth it. If you can find a holistic vet near you, they may be able to offer any number of other things to try. Wishing you the best!

Brensexton, I have a chihuahua that is 10 years old, and she has always been a fussy eater too. She now has kidney and pancreas disease as well. I feed her Hill’s G/D food mixed with a small amount of cook boneless, skinless chicken breasts. I cook the chicken for 40 minutes in just plain water with no salt. She loves it so much, that she now eats more then ever before. This is a dog that was fighting for her life in intensive care at Purdue Lafayette Hosp. this past November. She was labeled anorexic because you could literally count her ribs. The Vet said that it was fine to feed her that way, just not to much chicken because it might be too much protein for her kidneys, so I feed her a small amount each time. I hope that this will be helpful to you. I pray that your little dog gets better soon.

We have the same KD (soft version) food for our 4lb over 15 year old Sheltie. He loved the food at first, but after a few months snubbed it too. Now we add a little freshly fried/boiled skinless chicken/pork/duck to the KD Science Diet (finely chopped, of course). We change it up every week. He’s doing well and going strong. He’s eating regularly and drinking just fine. He’s so active people can’t believe he’s nearly 16. I’m no vet, but just wanted to share this method as it has worked for us. We originally started doing it because we felt if he’s going to go soon he might as well go with getting a little enjoyment out of his meals. It’s now been over a year since he’s been diagnosed with kidney failure and we’ve been advised he’d only be around for maybe another 3 months. Go figure! P.s… of course he does keep up with the meds too!

Babykk310 –

I’m so sorry to hear about your dog, I can’t even imagine going through that. Two posts down LabsRawesome posted a link to a website – I would recommend going to that site, posting your story and asking for Shawna’s advice.

 Peggy, I am going through this with my almost 12 year old guy right now… I’d love to talk to you more about this. Did your dog have vomiting, diarrhea? He also has a heart murmur and enlarged heart. My heart is breaking!

You can write me off list @wendynasonwatson@g mail.com (no spaces)…..

hi shawna i have a 20months shitsu that has chronic kidney failure i am feeding her chicken lamb brown rice yoghurt and cottage cheese,also do you of any organic food to prevent amemia.any reply please email me at……………lilias1@btopenworld.com any advise would be appreciated

Does anyone know of a good renal diet for a dog with allergies to most proteins? He eats Blue Buffalo Basics salmon and potato now but we just found out about the renal stuff and are looking at all the options.

I have a diabetic  dog with pancreatitis and his BUN test was 40, his creatinine wa 0.5 and his alkaline phosphotate was 337.
 He is a 15 yr old min pin. What do I feed him with all of these issues?   which condition do I treat mainly his diabetes, his kidneys, or liver?

Hey Kondaniel30 ~~ my dog, the one pictured to the left, was born with kidney disease.  She had symptoms of excess drinkinig and urinating as early as 6 weeks of age.  She came to me at 9 weeks of age.  I put her on a high protein raw diet.  She was not officially diagnosed with chronic kd until her one year checkup and blood work.  At that point I started messing around with her diet and testing her blood every 3 months.  She actually got worse so I went back to high protein raw.  She’s been on high protein raw ever since.  She’s now 6 and 1/2 years old and still only has symptoms of polydipsia and polyuria. 

I do give her probiotics and prebiotics which act as a nitrogen trap and route BUN etc thru the colon sparing the kidneys from having to filter it.  You can lower BUN but up to 10 points by nitrogen trapping.

I also give her a nutraceutical made by Standard Process called Canine Renal Support.  I think this has been a huge part of her continued health.  It helps prevent the immune system from attacking the kidneys while supplying the kidneys with nutrients that they need to stay as strong as possible.

Give pure, clean water.  Keep as many toxins that have to be filtered by the kidneys out of her life and our home etc etc etc.. 

Dogaware.com and b-naturals.com are both sites with good info about kd.  Both owners are nutritionists and both have been moderators for one of the yahoo kidney disease groups and both have had dogs with kd that lived longer than expected life spans.

It is my understanding that vets often recommend Science Diet and other special brands (look at what they sell in their waiting room) because the manufacturer’s rep makes it worth their while. I’ve heard this from reliable sources, but haven’t researched it thoroughly so I’m not 100% sure.  I suggest you ask your vet what exactly your pet needs in a food, and then go and research foods yourself.  I feed Taste of the Wild, Wild Alaskan salmon because my bichons get itchy when they are fed grains…at least it seems that way.  They’ve done very well on this food.  It is under 25 gms protein, plenty for little dogs who are somewhat inactive during the rainy months. Also the main carb is sweet potatoes, not regular potatoes.  Check it out.  It’s been a big help in our house.  In addition, I discovered that I can buy the trimmings from fresh salmon for about .25 a lb. (at my grocer’s fish counter).  I boil it up, blend it VERY WELL and I mix some of the broth and blended fish with the kibble to make their evening meal and little more interesting.  Lots of omega 3s in wild salmon plus added calcium from the pulverized skeleton.  I hope my reply helps in some small way.  

High protein for “healthy” older dogs is not a problem..  In fact, they have determined that healthy senior dogs need as much as 50% more protein then adult dogs.

For dogs that have a liver shunt or have liver failure — YES, absolutely lower protein is advisable.  But for healthy dogs it is not necessary nor desirable.

To Peggy and Spikey -

My Eskie
was diagnosed with Acute Kidney Failure in Aug 2007 at 11 years of age, after
eating Purina all her life. At that time the vet put her on Hills Science Diet,
saying there really wasn’t anything else he could do for her. He said he didn’t
expect her to make it to the end of the year.

I refused
to accept this as a final prognosis and started to research kidney failure on
my own, learning of the low phosphorus recommendation and the horrible reviews
of Science Diet and ultimately leading to a year long process of trial and
error of home cooked meals, raw foods, and commercially produced dog foods.

I finally
found FreshPet Select brand (http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/freshpet-select-homestyle/)
which does have a lower guaranteed analysis protein % but more importantly is low
in phosphorus. After switching to FreshPet, my eskie became more active and
lively, much like she had been at a younger age. She stopped showing all of the
signs of kidney failure, was no longer lethargic, returned to normal water
intake amounts and stopped having ‘accidents’ were she couldn’t make it to the
door in time.

And most
importantly, she has been on these tubs (both the lamb and the chicken flavors)
for the last FIVE years now, well exceeding the vet’s expectations. In fact,
her new vet says that she looks very good for a dog of her age with her past
diagnosis.

I now feed
a combination of FreshPet and Halo to my younger eskies as well!

I agree about chicken however I had only heard about mercury and fish..  Hmmm  Something new to look up

So the poor pups on chicken and rice foods with added fish meal are getting a triple whammy

I do hope they ban arsenic in chicken feed…  Could never get on board with that one……

Efficient or not it still taxes the system if consumed regularly.. 

I also have to assume that things are synergistic.  A small amount of arsenic from rice, parabens from shampoos, pthalates from burning candles in the house (or mom’s perfume), vaccinations/heartworm/flea & tick meds, VOCs from cleaning supplies etc.. 

From the Environmental Working Group
“Average levels of many chemicals were substantially higher in pets than is typical for people, with 2.4 times higher levels of stain- and grease-proof coatings (perfluorochemicals) in dogs, 23 times more fire retardants (PBDEs) in cats, and more than 5 times the amounts of mercury, compared to average levels in people found in national studies conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and EWG (Figure).”  http://www.ewg.org/reports/pets

Why would we knowingly want to add more to the already burdened systems?

Hi Bill B.

I’m not overly concerned. A dog would have to eat a massive amount of rice 1000′s of cups in a day to get reach a one time exposure toxicity level.

Chronic low level exposure causing a problem is a primarily a human concern. Dogs are efficient at removing arsenic from the body whereas humans don’t do this very well. 

Because of the findings of high arsenic levels in brown rice produced in the US, I wonder if there are any recommended alternative foods that either contain no rice or in smaller quantity than the #2 or #3 ingredient.

Thank You Sharon, Valerie, and EvesHumanMom. This is all so overwhelming at first glance. Clearly I need to make careful, informed changes in Spikey’s diet.  Thank you all for sharing.

If you would like some information on the food I sell I would be glad to send it to you or tell you about it.  I pet sit and I pet sit for a Neufoundland once that was having problems and he was put on HSD and by the time I pet sit for him after he was put on it.  Was too late to save him.  He I think starved to death from only eating what they were told to feed him.  3 cans a day was not nearly enough to keep a big dog going.  My opinion only.

The following website has some GREAT info, in my opinion, on feeding dogs with liver shunts (also has links to support groups, research papers etc).
http://www.dogaware.com/health/liver.html#shunts

There is also a specific probiotic and prebiotic that help with liver shunts..  They help remove ammonia from the blood.  Some probiotics/prebiotics can increase the amount of ammonia so make sure to find out which help.  The prebiotic is call lactulose but I don’t remember the name of the probiotic.

Hi, CJ
I googled this site:  http://dogaware.com/health/kidneynonprescription.html  Hope this helps.

Which foods are low phosphorus?  I cant find any ingredient label with this. Thanks

Any suggestions for a giant breed dog who is only 23 months and has kidneys that are too small for him.  When we took him for the blood work the vet said that the blood work looked like the dog was about 14 years and had kd for over 7 years.  I have put him on a reduced protein diet and his levels are either on the high or low side of normal.  Any sugestions would help, we want to keep him as long as possible.  One more thing his urine was week.  Not sure what way but it was almost pure water.

http://homemadedogfood.com/

http://www.dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html

http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html

Hi, my 6 month old Choc lab has serious kidney problems, one over developed and one under developed kidney, LOW red blood cell count, and no appetite. My vet suggested low protein diet and a steriod to increase red blood count. Am i heading in the right direction? any suggestions on low protein diet home cooked? as my puppy is not loving the tinned or dry food?
thanks

Hi Tad ~~ foods are evaluated based on their dry matter basis.  This is the standard.  Canned foods list the nutrient analysis on an “as fed” basis.  In order to properly judge a canned food to a kibbled food it first has to be converted to dry matter.  The instructions on how to do the conversion can be found here  http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=2690

(Edit — the canned K/D showing 15% protein has already been converted to dry matter basis). It says right on their website for the canned food “dry matter %” http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-canine-kd-canine-renal-health-canned.html

K/D definitely is a low protein food.  But it may not be necessary to feed your pup low protien and especially not for life.

There are two types of kidney disease — acute and chronic.  Acute is caused by damage (like a car accident or a bacterial infection).  Chronic is long term and slower damage. 

In acute kidney disease it is often very important to feed a lower protein diet UNTIL the crisis is over and the lab work is back to normal.  It is also important to feed a lower protein food if there is excess protein in the urine (proteinuria) which indicates that the kidneys are inflammed.  Once the reason for the inflammation is addressed protein should not spill out into the urine and a normal diet can be eaten.

Your vet may be concerned that the acute damage done to the kidneys may have caused permanent damage.  HOWEVER, chronic kd is not treated the same as acute.  Lowering the protein too much in the early to mid stages of chronic kidney disease can actually do more harm then good.

Here’s just one example of the available data out there
“Kidney Failure from the Iams nutrition symposium “’For years, physicians and veterinarians have treated renal failure by reducing protein levels in diets,’ said Gregory Reinhart PhD, an Iams researcher. ‘After working with leading universities, we have now found that restricting protein in a dog’s diet may do more harm than good by potentially putting the companion animal at risk of protein malnutrition.’”  http://dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html

A bunch more data on this topic can be found at the same link above.

My pup, the one in the above picture, was born with chronic kidney disease (called congenital kd).  Her protein is not restricted but is of the highest quality.  She is very healthy (never has required a sub-q fluids or medications etc).  She has had the disease for 6 years now and has been on a HIGH protein raw diet her whole life — ranging from 45 to 54% protein. 

A canned diet is better for kd then kibble so stick with canned. 

If the blood values are back to normal you should be able to switch back to a higher protein diet.

If the infection has been addressed then the inflammation (causing the proteinuria) should be gone or going down.  Once the inflammation is gone, the excess protein in the urine should be gone too.  Then you can go back to a standard diet.

IF the “chronic” infection caused damage to the kidneys your pup may develop kidney disease.  However, even if he has kd a low protein diet is not advisable until the later stages of the disease.  They now know that lowering protein too early causes more harm then good.

You should have the urine checked again to see if there is still proteinuria.  If there is keep him on a lower protein diet til no more or only minute amounts of protein is in the urine.  Then put him on a high protein diet as the protein makes the kidneys and urinary tract more acidic which helps prevent additional infections.  Adding cranberries, blueberries and a supplement (if you can get it) called D-mannose helps prevent further infections as well.

I’m curious, did your vet identify the bacteria causing the infection—-e-coli, lepto etc? 

A couple things….you’ll find that most of us don’t approve of veterinary diets (unless it’s a matter of life and death). For a dog with crystals, it’s important that the dog get alot of fluid intake. Canned is a great way to go, another is dry food, canned, warm water and viola, a nice stew. Hopefully someone else can chime in but is there a good reason for a dog to be on the above food? Do you know what kind of crystals the dog has? 
You mention yeast in the ears….the ingredients in the food you said is not good for yeasty ears: rice, flaxseed, corn are all ingredients that may cause yeast issues. I’d change his food. 14% protein is way way too low. Senior dogs need a higher protein. 19.5% fat and 59.5% carbs are way way up there. 

It’s not rated yet but don’t hold out hope it’s rated more than one star. Meat (if you call poultry by product meal a meat) is #8 on the ingredient list. It’s a horrible food. Nothing good to say about it. Your friend can have their dog lose weight using a much much higher quality food for probably less money, such as Wellness Core reduced fat

My friends senior dogs on are on Purina Veterinary Diets Overweight Management Canine Formula. I can’t find it on the rating list. Am I missing it or is it not rated?
Thanks
CG

thank you so much for that. really made me understand what my dog is going through more. 
We are gonna bring him to another vet, specializes in mini yorkies. I will be referring to dr.karen more often. she seems like she knows her stuff. thanks again

A human grade dog food brand that is low in protein is Great Life-Dr.E’s Buffalo – RX Formula. I believe that Human grade dog food brands are supposed to be the best .

Pumpkin-Poupee89 –

Concerning dogs with liver problems:

“It’s important to
understand that you don’t want to entirely eliminate protein from a
carnivore’s diet, or your dog will develop serious health problems
related to hypoproteinemia (protein deficiency). But you do want to feed
a reduced amount.”
[http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/02/01/liver-shunts-disease-in-pet-dogs.aspx]

Hi Pumpkin_poupee89,

I’m not sure what protein range your vet told you to look for but Addiction makes some very high quality dehydrated foods in the 18-20% protein range. I know with liver issues it’s important that the protein is high quality, these foods are good quality meat and dehydrated foods are less processed than kibble.

sure,I will!thanks Melissa for your attention,and wishes your guy being good!

Thank you,Evemama,Melissa,Sandy,I finally got Wellnwss’s whitefish,and may be I can continuously but it.also,I will try Fromm and fish4dogs next time.I can easily get progress because my boy get blood test every month.Beside he so far had been ate corn based food!!!

I am with sandy-The liver cleanse diet calls for a whitefish based food, not salmon. I would feed what ever higher quality whitefish based food that is available. I use Fromm’s and Wellness simply because they are readily available to me. However, if another came along, I would not hesitate to try it for a rotation of brand : )

Melissa and Sandy,  what do you think about Fish 4 Dogs complete for Mika-san’s dog? http://www.fish4dogs.com/Products/fish-complete-small-bite.aspx Wellness is hard to find in Japan.  I could find one online store with Fromms.

Mika-

I did the cleanse diet for about 3mths-my guys values were so high, they could not be read on the in house equipment. ACK!Be SURE to give the recommended supplements-they are very important.

Yes, when he started losing too much weight, we introduced the Wellness whitefish and sweet potato. Both canned and dry. I also alternated with the Fromm whitefish, but that did not agree with him, so back to the Wellness.

 Mika Tomia-

please be very careful with the liver cleanse diet. She warns that some dogs can and will drop dramatic amounts of weight if not carefully regulated, and she is not kidding. My guy, despite being regulated closely, lost waay to much, and then went on the whitefish/sweet potato dry and canned. He is now 2 plus years from diagnosis(prognosis was poor-perhaps several months) and is doing very well.

Start reading around here:

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/low-protein-dog-foods/#comment-383335694

Wellness Whitefish & Sweet Potato has been recommended by some.  You can also look up Dr Dodd’s Liver Cleanse Diet (homemade).

Probiotics are also recommended by some to trap nitrogen.

 LOL, didn’t realize that is the thread we’re on. Btw of course healthy animals shouldn’t be limited in their species appropriate protein, so I agree this site is biased in that respect, and rightfully so. 

This site favors very high protein diets with few carbohydrates. I am a longtime Dalmatian breeder. My breed has a genetic tendency to form uric acid stones which can be life-threatening in males. Uric acid stones are formed when Dalamtian are fed am excess of purines – component of protein and particularly prevalent in organ meats. While I agree dogs need good protein, I rarely use food with a protein content exceeding 24%. It would be nice if issues like these could be acknowledged when food ratings are posted.

My dog was diagnosed with prostate cancer and the vet wants him on a low protein diet.  I tried Purina NF and Hills Prescription Diet k/d and he doesn’t like either one. He wants to eat since he tries to eat my other dogs food (which he used to eat before he was diagnosed) and I am looking for a home made dog food recipe that I hope he will eat.  Any suggestions?

Hi Guest ~~ I don’t even think protein should be limited in cases of kidney disease until the dog is uremic.  Newer research shows that dogs (with kidney disease) do worse on lower protein.  I have a dog that was born with kidney disease.  She has been on a high protein (45 to 54%) raw diet since weaning.  She just turned 6 the end of June and is still in EXCELLENT health — not medicated, has never required sub-q fluids yet etc.. 

They know that with giant breed dogs it is not the protein that is the problem but overconsumpution and excess calcium that causes the issues.  Breeders (and some vets) that still recommend lowering protein of giant breeds are not familiar with the newer research.

Edit — “high quality” protein is definitely going to be better then lower quality proteins for sure—-supplying more amino acids to the body for use..!! However, every cell of the body uses amino acids. They are the “building blocks” of the body. Lowering protein == equals lower amino acids == lower building blocks == equals lower health.

Djedwards, canned Science Diet does not have 4% protein.

You need to calculate the protein on a dry-matter basis. So 4%/(100% – %moisture) X 100 and that would be the actual protein content. Canned food as a lot of moisture that’s why protein and fat levels appear lower than kibble, when in reality canned foods generally contain more protein and fat than kibble. Hope that helps.

I’m so sorry to hear about her health problems, and the loss of the previous two.

Kristinerandall ~~ the dog in my avatar has had kidney disease since birth.  We noticed the large intake of water and large urine output as early as six weeks of age.  She was the runt but out drank and out urinated the big male BY FAR..  She was officially diagnosed at 1 year of age.  She will be 6 years old in 2 weeks.

I feed Audrey human food but raw AND balanced…  It is REALLY important in dogs with kidney disease that the phosphorus in the meats (and most veggies) be balanced with calcium..  Excess absorption of phosphorus IS damaging to the kidneys.

And excellent website for dietary information etc is 
http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

I don’t and never have fed low protein by the way.

I just started feeding my 13 yr old Shih tzu (with many environment allergies) a low phosphorus diet. Lower protein as well but with high quality meat. No dry dog food to help reduce the processed factor. He has an elevated creatinine level and his vet recommended a prescribed dry dog food. I rejected his brand because it lacked a true protein and multiple grains. I have taken it upon myself with the assistance of my pet store (Pussy & Pooch) to find the right balance. This is what we have come up with thus far…Steve’s Real Food raw (beef) 43% protein 1.27% phosphorus, Primal Raw (lamb) 37.5% protein .36% phosphorus, Honest Kitchen Keen raw dehydrated (turkey) 21.86% protein .87% phosphorus, Honest Kitchen Preference raw dehydrated (veggie only) 13.7% protein .68% phosphorus. I have a check up within next month to check his panel. It’s been a pleasure working with my pet store but the bottom line is to ensure you read labels and ask a lot of questions. More important talk to your vet about options when it comes to nutrition, don’t be afraid to say no with a why. I haven’t fed chicken for some time now and looking for skin reactions to the turkey.

Yeah! I Thought those were some very nice posts you made. I figured I better clarify my statements, a little more, for those that aren’t familiar with these kinds of things yet. :-}

O.k. That just isn’t coming out right! Rrrrrr! Still struggling with that exposure. Drat! Got to get it under control… They are spraying 3 nasties, all at once on a GMO corn field, upwind, tomorrow. Trust me! they use at least 6 times the pesticide for GMO, as they do for non-GMO varieties!! & the production is less. Not what it was sold to the public as, at all!!!!!!!

O.k. I realize I said one of thse things that’s so out there, again, that a lot of you are thinking, “huh?!”  So here’s some citations. Acid reflux, ulcers and esophageal damage are symptoms of toxic injury. While mainstream medicine is just starting to catch on, it’s been know by the chemically injured long before I got toxed… So, here’s a few citations..

“The American Journal of Gastroenterology 106, 1942-1945 (November 2011) | doi:10.1038/ajg.2011.357

Editorial: Gastroesophageal Reflux Symptoms in 9/11 Survivors and Workers: Insights Gained from Tragic Losses

Gregory S Sayuk and Douglas A Drossman

Abstract
Survivors of the 2001 World Trade Center (WTC) attacks and the individuals who volunteered for the rescue and recovery efforts remain substantially burdened by psychological trauma and respiratory illnesses related to the environmental exposures. Gastroesophageal reflux symptoms (GERS) are also reported at higher rates than expected among this population. Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and exposures to the caustic aerosolized debris of the WTC are explored in further detail as potential mechanisms underlying these GERS experiences in WTC Registry participants. Recent work by Li and colleagues suggests that the WTC experience is associated with increases in GER independent of asthma and PTSD diagnoses. However, this association may be more complex since over-representation of hypersensitive non-acid reflux subjects and failure to completely capture psychiatric comorbidity may also contribute to our understanding of these findings. Nonetheless, the WTC Registry offers a unique study population, and detailed psychologic profiling and physiologic testing of participants may promote greater insight into gastroesophageal reflux pathohysiology.”
———
And an quote from an article that summarizes it…..

Could Environmental Toxins Be Responsible for Your Acid Reflux?
By Kristin Hayes, About.com GuideSeptember 7, 2011

A new study reported in The American Journal of Gastroenterology shows an increased number of individuals with GERD among survivors and rescue workers of the 2002 9/11 collapse of the World Trade Center (WTC). At a glance, I thought, this study made perfect sense as stress is something that increases problems with acid reflux. However, the study, taking this in to consideration, eliminated individuals with PTSD and included only those who had no symptoms whatsoever of GERD prior to the attacks on 9/11. The study suggests that breathing in the toxic dust cloud that accompanied the collapse of the WTC could be to blame. Researchers believe that inhaled dust and chemicals could have directly damaged the esophagus in some survivors and rescue workers. More research would be necessary to determine if a specific chemical or other agent that was part of that dust cloud is responsible.”
http://ent.about.com/b/2011/09/07/could-environmental-toxins-be-responsible-for-your-acid-reflux.htm
——
This is from Dr. grace Ziem’s website (she’s the leading expert on Toxic Injury
(www.chemicalinjury.org)

“GASTROINTESTINAL SYMPTOMS
 
“Acid reflux-like” symptoms are common in chemical injury. This can include irritation/burning feeling in the stomach or esophagus area (mid upper abdomen, lower middle chest), gas/bloating. If these symptoms are or become frequent or serious, consider a chemical cause (see 3 below: find out what chemicals you are exposed to.
 
When these symptoms are caused by chemical exposure, your stomach/esophagus is more inflamed, (see chemical inflammation below) and NOT because of increased acid. Before repeated use of acid blocking drugs, ask your doctor to measure your stomach acid. This can be easily done by swallowing a small capsule that is then tested or then sends signals for testing your acid level.
 
Repeatedly using medicine to block your stomach acid can impair your digestion, deplete your body of essential nutrients and make your body more susceptible to intestinal infections (yeast/candida, parasites, toxic bacteria, viruses, etc.). It can also delay your detecting more silent chemical injury if chemical inflammation is causing these symptoms. Since scientific/medical understanding of this is recent, your doctor may not yet be aware of this knowledge. Feel free to download any part(s) of this website for your doctor.”
——-

Just so you know, I may be toxed but I’m not crazy. GFETE

Dr. Mercola
“Increasing your body’s natural production of stomach acid — Like I said earlier, acid reflux is not caused by too much acid in your stomach — it’s usually a problem with too little acid. One of the simplest strategies to encourage your body to make sufficient amounts of hydrochloric acid (stomach acid) is to consume enough of the raw material.”  http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/04/25/news-flash-acid-reflux-caused-by-too-little-acid-not-too-much.aspx

I’m a sap anyway but this made me cry —– “read in quiet for Blackee”!!  What a wonderful puppy mommy you are and what a very lucky puppy Blackee is!!!

You are very sweet too!!!!  Look forward to talking!!  Do give me a jingle..  This afternoon should be good but you can try any time.  I know I have the chiropractor tomorrow am and then a rescue fundraiser from 11:00 to 3:00 that I am working.  Going to Lincoln on Sunday to pick up some meat a friend got for me but could be available while driving or after we get home (hubby will be driving .  Talk more soon!!

I COMPLETELY get it…  I spend a small fortune on Audrey’s vitamins etc each month!!!  I do understand..  I just felt it prudent to suggest ..  But, I am MORE THEN WILLING to help in ANY way I can ..  I sent you some diet stuff in an email..

 I’ve got the Standard Process Renal Support. I haven’t used it. I did use the Whole Body support long ago. I don’t have the Hepatic Support. I also have the five leaf Pharmacy and did start her on the detox herbs,but her formulation is with using alcohol,so I had to stop,since Blackee was having major issues and I didn’t want to take a chance on her developing anymore ulcers. she was totally uremic in December,so I have to be careful. I do give her only purified or filtered water,too.
What is a Vit. C whole food? Could you explain this. Now,I do give two apples with the diet that she’s been getting,not sure if that’s what you mean? she also gets Papaya, sweet potato,which are also high in Vit. C.Is this what you mean?

 Well, I looked at the site,and they are asking some pretty major dollars,and I really don’t have that right now. Also, I used a nutritionist from UF in Florida,and the diet that was given put my Blackee into a major pancreatic and severe kidney failure in December.
 I’ve tried a few doctors in this area,too,and the results have been very concerning. I’ve had better experience with prayer,studying and doing what I can.
I think the company I looked at online wants approx. $200 if they look at her records and make a recipe -this is very hefty and don’t know what the result would be. I really have had so many failures with doctors and nutritionists that I don’t think I want to take a chance on it right now.
I’d appreciate any help you can offer. I will try to contact Dr. Becker and see about purchasing some of her supplements and need to get some more Milk Thistle and Fish Oil,so money is a bit tight. I just purchased more of the food,too,from Urban Wolf,as well.
Thanks for your help

 I’m not sure,Shawna. I believe its based on using 1 lb of meat(protein) as a complete meal,but I’m really not sure.We have been using 1 1/2 lb of meat and just added another 1/8lb to it recently.
I really wish I understood all of this better for my baby’s sake.
Thanks so much for your interest,
I was thankful for her good test results. I think they are pretty good. I know when she was in the hospital her values were way up there and sent her home to die. She was only 7.4 lbs. Now the values haven’t changed much from her Feb. values when I was feeding her homecooked,rice,veggies(low purine),and meat(turkey,chicken,beef).
I also give credit to giving her Milk Thistle,COQ10 and the coconut and salmon oil. I really think this makes a huge difference.
Thanks Again,Shawna