[ExplEngineer]

Thank you. I will look at a lot of the criticisms that you have of the hot dogs, as their nutritional values are always more important than any convenience function. Just brought the boys back from their (Annual in the case of Zeus, 6mos. in the case of Bentley) Vet visit. He was quite complimentary as to their condition, weights and such, which was encouraging, but he was also pretty enthusiastic about their diets (because of their condition) which is something that I want to reconsider given the consensus and commentary. My goal would be to keep them in condition and such while changing over to perhaps better sources of animal protein. Zeus was 232# @38.5″ at the withers, Bentley was 109# @ 28″ at the withers (he was almost exactly 7 mos old on Vet Day). Bentley is the real athlete, but he keeps Zeus active and on his toes. I am hoping to allow Zeus to breed 2x this calendar year, 1x is already booked and I am not that anxious to exceed that pace. Hopefully, there will be some English Mastiff-centric commentary on whether Bentley is making his growth gates, and such. Thank (all of) you for your contributions, and your thoughts on their feeding program. I agree somewhat about the eating schedule, but unfortunately, they were raised on the “grazing theory” and it is difficult for me to have the heart to cause them to be hungry for as long as it takes to change them over without a good reason. Their eating habits are not really their fault, it was how they were conditioned, and it really isn’t inconvenient for me so until Bentley reaches his post-Growth Spurt stage his nutrition and calorie consumption balance are #1 with me, and if it means he gets some extra time to eat, I guess have an “Of Counsel” senior partner will give him the (perhaps unfortunate) opportunity to eat a properly complete and full diet and worry about his food discipline later on, and of course “what is good for the goose, is good for the gander” as they say, so Zeus wins round ! by default. Hopefully, this will be their only consequence of a doting and overly protective pet-parent, as I do believe in discipline (actually had some opportunities to learn from some of the strictest of disciplinarians at the Monestary at New Skeet, so I know better.

[ExplEngineer]

If you will permit me, perhaps I can offer a suggestion that might aid in achieving a proper diagnosis of that which is afflicting “Patch”. I do not know where you are located at geographically, nor as to your proximity to advanced Veterinary care, but if “The vets where I go are very very busy, by the time u book something Patch seems to get better then he’s ill again..” however, I would suggest that you will receive greater opportunities for appropriate diagnosis if you would, rather than continuing to cope with the cycle of appointment delays and intermittent suffering, ask for a referral to a regional veterinary specialty clinic, or to a clinic that is co-located with a College of Veterinary Medicine. Despite the fact that Patch appears to go into remission spontaneously, there is a great probability that there is the issue of cumulative tissue damage or destruction, resulting in increasing severity of symptoms, and perhaps even complications that are difficult to treat or even beyond remediation by other than extreme treatment modalities that in and of themselves can result in complications of their own. In reviewing the symptomology that you report, it is unclear as to whether the underlying cause is digestive in its etiology, or as a result of endocrine system dysfunction, each of which would have differing modalities of treatment, and for the most part require differing diagnostic testing to achieve a proper diagnosis, which is always the predicate for developing a treatment plan that is suitable for both the disorder in general, and the individual needs of the patient. In the instances of illness and dysfunction that you describe, the varied causes may require a series of different diagnostic procedures to isolate and identify the cause of the distress, e.g. an Ultrasound, or an MRI, or perhaps a PET scan. Depending upon the findings, there may be the need for either a needle biopsy, or other marginally invasive procedure to secure tissue samples for examination by a pathologist. I know that this may seem extraordinarily complex, but by entering into a unified diagnostic protocol you may be able to avoid repetitive testing as well as subjecting Patch to the stressors relating to multiple clinic visit and perhaps exposure to a number of differing Veterinarians who may, or may not have a means of communication and consultation, repetitive procedures and delays in securing relief for the underlying condition.

I apologize if this appears to be a statement of the obvious, but I cannot help but conclude that your current system of assessment and diagnosis has not yielded the results that you would have expected, nor any conclusions as to the underlying disease process, which will create stressors upon you as his caregiver, as well as considerable redundant and unnecessary expense, thus depriving you of access to funding that may be required to secure the treatment that is necessary to secure a positive outcome.

[ExplEngineer]

Thank you for your answers. Yes, I agree that both portion, and intake must be controlled in these larger [OK, Giant] breeds of dogs.

I am curious as to why there is an objection to “Hot Dogs” as the supplemental meat? And this is an honest inquiry, not a challenge or in any manner intended as being disrespectful. I am just a bit surprised that an all meat product of turkey, beef and chicken (I avoid the ones that contain pork, as it is my understanding that pork can be a trifle difficult for a dog to digest). When the steer is headed for the freezer, there is always ground beef (minimal fat content) or the type of chunks of beef that I use in chili or stew. When I come up on them in the supermarket I will pick up chicken breasts or thighs to add to their food, and of course the lads love cheese omelets for their weekend breakfast (they were given raw eggs in their prior home and seemed to thrive on them, but I hate to leave any raw egg product down on the floor for more than just a very few minutes while the cooked eggs remain edible for the better part of any hour. I do have to admit to throwing in an occasional strip of bacon as a treat, but it is not in any way included in their dietary schedule or as meeting any portion of their daily requirements for nutrition.

Actually, on occasion, I will even eat one or two of the hot dogs that I feed to them so I don’t see that there should be a qualitative or a food safety issue, but I assume that there must be something about them about which I am neither aware of, or I would not even consider feeding them to the lads. Trust me on that, both of my kids tell me that if for some reason they are involved in an accident, their last and most important wish is to come back reincarnated as my dog (& they are both >30, college educated, and in good career positions so they are neither deprived,nor underprivileged).

I am in my 47th year of owning and raising Mastiffs, but I still feel the need to seek out better ways of doing so. Now being semi-retired, they are with me virtually 24/7/365, and members of the family and the last thing that I would ever want to do is to raise them in a sub-optimal environment.

Tomorrow is annual inoculation day for my older one, and I shall be using a new, but highly recommended Veterinarian, and I will make a point of having this discussion with him as well, but as with physicians and psychologists, all health care professionals are equally skilled in all ancillary facets of animal health and as with human patients, a wise physician will consult with a dietician in constructing an omnibus treatment team, so I looking forward to integrating all available sources of information, and their recommendations, into our daily routine.

TIA to both of you for your input, and for adding resources to my knowledge base.

[ExplEngineer]

I would have to disagree with the statement that an abdominal ultrasound does not require an anesthetic. This may be true, but it is truly dependent upon the individual dog, and how he/she reacts to tests, behaves when receiving Vet care, etc. If forgoing a piece of toast for a morning will provide you with both the flexibility, and the ability to have more accurate tests run and to secure a more fact-based diagnosis, well, he will be okay without that piece of toast. My dogs are family, and I would never do anything to harm them, or to even make them even less than happy, but I would not jeopardize the success of a procedure for such a minimal sacrifice. Additionally, there are times when the results of one procedure or test requires a follow-on with a different, more specific diagnostic test or procedure, e.g. an MRI or PET Scan, this contingency can be addressed immediately if the dog is properly prepped for the administration of an anesthetic which is generally required for these procedures despite the fact that they are far less invasive than a biopsy or other invasive procedure. At a point along the way, the dog will become acclimated to the process of diagnostic procedures and the level of stressor imposed will be mitigated if the sequence of procedures can be addressed in a single visit or event, and thusly a sacrifice of normalcy such as his piece of toast may only be required on a single day. It is difficult to fully address all of the issues concerning these requirements, but generally, if you trust your Veterinarian (and if you don’t, find another one for everyone’s sake), I would suggest that you comply with this relatively simple, and minimally disruptive pre-testing regime. In the end, if you are like I am, you will want to achieve the best possible outcome within the context of both diagnostics and treatments and it appears that withholding this small amount of food for a minimal amount of time, even if it is disruptive of a daily routine will result in a positive “risk-reward” ratio.

[Author]

Posts