V-Dog (Dry)

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Rating: ★★☆☆☆

V-Dog vegan dog food receives the Advisor’s second-lowest tier rating of 2 stars.

The V-Dog product line includes one dry dog food, a recipe claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for adult maintenance.

V-Dog

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 26% | Fat = 5% | Carbs = 61%

Ingredients: Dried peas, brown rice, pea protein concentrate, oats, sorghum, lentils, canola oil, peanuts, sunflower hearts, potato protein, brewers dried yeast, alfalfa meal, flaxseeds, natural vegetable flavor, quinoa, millet, calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, potassium chloride, vegetable pomace (carrot, celery, beet, parsley, lettuce, watercress & spinach), taurine, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D2 supplement, riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium metabisulfite complex, folic acid), choline chloride, minerals (zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite & calcium iodate), dl-methionine, l-lysine, l-carnitine, parsley flakes, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), dried cranberries, dried blueberries, preserved with citric acid and mixed tocopherols (form of vitamin E)

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 10.4%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis24%5%NA
Dry Matter Basis26%5%61%
Calorie Weighted Basis26%13%62%

The first ingredient in this dog food lists peas. Peas are a quality source of carbohydrates. Plus (like all legumes) they’re rich in natural fiber.

Peas consist of mostly primarily carbohydrates. Yet they do contain about 25% protein.

The second ingredient is brown rice, a complex carbohydrate that (once cooked) can be fairly easy to digest. However, aside from its natural energy content, rice is of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

The third ingredient is pea protein, what remains of a pea after removing the starchy part of the vegetable.

Even though it contains over 80% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

The fourth ingredient is oats. Oats are rich in B-vitamins, minerals and dietary fiber.

The fifth ingredient is sorghum. Sorghum (milo) is a starchy cereal grain with a nutrient profile similar to corn.

Since it is gluten-free and boasts a smoother blood sugar behavior than other grains, sorghum may be considered an acceptable non-meat ingredient.

The sixth ingredient is lentils. Lentils are a quality source of carbohydrates. Plus (like all legumes) they’re rich in natural fiber. Lentils contain about 25% protein.

The seventh ingredient is canola oil. Many applaud canola for its favorable omega-3 content while a vocal minority condemn it as an unhealthy fat.

Much of the objection regarding canola oil appears to be related to the use of genetically modified rapeseed as its source material.

Yet others find the negative stories about canola oil more the stuff of urban legend than actual science.1

In any case, plant-based oils like canola are less biologically available to a dog than fish oil as a source of quality omega-3 fats.

The eighth ingredient lists peanuts. Peanuts are not true nuts but rather legumes similar to beans and peas. They are rich in mono-saturated fats and dietary fiber.

The ninth ingredient includes sunflower hearts. Sunflower hearts consist of the hulled kernel of the whole seed. They are rich in omega-6 fatty oils, vitamins A and E as well as dietary fiber.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With three notable exceptions

First, we find no mention of probiotics, friendly bacteria applied to the surface of the kibble after processing to help with digestion.

Next, the minerals listed here do not appear to be chelated. And that can make them more difficult to absorb. Non-chelated minerals are usually associated with lower quality dog foods.

And lastly, this dog food also contains menadione, a controversial form of vitamin K linked to liver toxicity, allergies and the abnormal break-down of red blood cells.

Since vitamin K isn’t required by AAFCO in either of its dog food nutrient profiles, we question the use of this substance in any canine formulation.

V-Dog Dog Food
The Bottom Line

V-Dog is — by design — a meatless product.

So, although we do recognize the need for some dog owners to provide (for whatever reason) a completely meat-free diet, we also respect a dog’s natural carnivorous bias.

For this reason, the highest rating awarded any vegetarian dog food found on this website can never exceed two stars.

That said, and before we determine our final rating, it’s still important to estimate how much plant-based protein might be present.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 26%, a fat level of 5% and estimated carbohydrates of about 61%.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 20%.

Below-average protein. Below-average fat. And above-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

Bottom line?

V-Dog is a plant-based meatless kibble that uses peas, pea protein concentrate and lentils as its main sources of protein, thus earning the brand 2 stars.

Not recommended.

Special Alert

Rice ingredients can sometimes contain arsenic. Until the US FDA establishes safe upper levels for arsenic content, pet owners may wish to limit the total amount of rice fed in a dog's daily diet.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

11/18/2012 Original review
11/18/2012 Last Update

  1. Mikkelson, B and DP, Oil of Ole, Urban Legends Reference Pages (2005)
  • Shawna

    LOL!! Speaking of toxins, several of mine dine regularly on fallen acorns from the neighbors tree. I freaked when I learned they can be toxic but I can’t prevent those determined to eat them from getting at least some… Ughhh

  • dchassett

    My dogs are also crazed when the figs are in season. If I don’t act quickly, between the birds, chipmunks, squirrels and our dogs we get hardly any for us.

  • JaketheMutt

    There must be something in tomatoes that attract dogs,lol! Mine are the same way,we have 4 beefsteak tomato bushes in our backyard that the dogs will not leave alone.The orange tree leaves/oranges are also a staple,wait hold that thought,pretty much anything with leaves is considered quite tasty amongst my brood,thankfully they never messed with the Sago palms we used to have;after I found out they are toxic to dogs;I ripped those suckers out pronto.

  • dchassett

    Thanks Labs. I’m always looking for something to make her a bit more comfortable. Also I haven’t tried Biotin for her poop eating. Interesting.

  • LabsRawesome

    Here’s a link, it gives vitamins and and tells what diseases/problems they help with. There are some that they recommend for easing allergies. http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_vitamins.php

  • dchassett

    I took a look. That is so funny, it’s C4C except for her cat.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    My pug is always on a diet so he goes and pulls little tomatoes off the vine!

  • Shawna

    I understand your neighbors disapproval of his chickens being chased but a gun is NOT the solution — not that I have to tell anyone here that!!!

    That is funny that he was still such a sweet boy despite the bullet wound!! :) Dogs are amazing creatures!!!!

  • dchassett

    Thanks Patty. I was always afraid of them getting any tomatoes. I’ll have to try a little and see how it goes. I love finding new ingredients to add to their diets. I will go slowly with my “delicate flower”, Katie. As I’ve said. Everyday it’s something new with her and now with Spring arriving and everything starting to bloom her environmental allergies have kicked in.

  • theBCnut

    Peekaboo always hissed, spat, and swatted at us, and now she can’t get enough attention. It’s like she lost her mind, but in a good way.

  • Crazy4cats

    Lucky you! I have a grey one trying to sit on my lap right now on top of my iPad. She waits until I’m trying to sleep to get on my head. She was also a wild stray. As soon as I make a move for her, however, she’s under a bed lickety split! She always seems to know when to hide.

  • theBCnut

    Remember how I had to PTS one of my cats last month and I was worried about her sister pining away for her? Well, one of those gray ones on the head must be Peekaboo, who has decided she no longer wants to be a feral cat and now spends every minute of every day seeking human attention, including climbing on top of my head when I’m sitting on the couch.

  • Crazy4cats

    Hey- that looks nothing like us. You are missing a white cat! Lol!

  • neezerfan

    so far so good with the tomatoes

  • LabsRawesome
  • theBCnut

    I agree to judge a dog by it’s breed is stupid unless you are talking about an actual breed trait that the dog is showing, but I have know many dogs that were completely messed up due to bad breeding, so I don’t blame the owner either. Temperament is inborn, behavior is trained.

  • theBCnut

    I don’t think there is a food that is too acidic for a healthy dog. Two of mine love tomatos, the third is sensitive to them, but not because of the acid.

  • Crazy4cats

    Oh, my dogs didn’t eat any chickens. They just thought it was really fun to chase them. It wasn’t about eating them at all.

  • LabsRawesome

    The wolf dog was so sweet and gentle, I really hope she’s there again when I go. I want to get some pics of her. The way she played with little Blue was so cute! The size difference was too funny. :)

  • Nickolas

    My point is that what is natural once you domesticate an animal especially a carnivore? The natural argument is invalid due to domestication by a species designed to eat plants. lol

  • Nickolas

    I have heard switching dogs to plant based diet makes them less likely to kill and eat other animals. Not surprising it makes sense really.

  • Crazy4cats

    We had a 1/2 coyote dog at our park last summer. Had never seen that before. He didn’t really want to play with any of the other dogs. But, he didn’t really bother any of them either.

  • dchassett

    I believe that behind any dog with bad behavior one can always find a very lazy ill informed owner or an abusive owner. It’s not the dog, it’s not the breed. It’s the owner. We don’t judge an entire population by their race, or nationalities (at least I hope not) why do people get to do that with animal breeds. They hear a few bad stories about a breed and then follow with the assumption that they’re all bad, all aggressive, all biters, etc. A lot of toddlers bite. Should we fear them or spend time teaching right from wrong? What is acceptable behavior and what is not.

  • dchassett

    OMG! Poor baby. Rotten neighbor.

  • LabsRawesome

    I was at the dog park, when I noticed this huge dog getting out of a truck with it’s owner. I watched them come into the fenced area. So I said hello to the girl & she said hi. Then I asked her what kind of a dog she had, she said German Shep mix. I said really? What’s the mix? It looks like a Wolf. She (kind of nervously) said yes it is a G Shep/Wolf. She said she doesn’t like to tell people that. I was like that’s okay, I’m not scared. I don’t judge dogs by their breed, their all individuals. She seemed really relieved. Her Wolf dog was the sweetest most gentle dog at the park (well besides my Lab lol) Her Wolf/dog played with my tiny Dachshund, actually it played so gently with all 3 of my dogs. It had great manners, it was a very impressive huge dog. I hope she comes back so I can get a pic. I forgot my phone that day too, of course.

  • Crazy4cats

    This happened almost a year ago. Luckily, we have not accidentally left our gate open once since then.

  • Crazy4cats

    No, not good at all. One of my dogs took a bullet for it. We are very lucky he is still alive. Poor thing. I didn’t know why he was bleeding when I rushed him to the vet. He was still sitting in the waiting room wagging his tail and greeting everyone that came in with a bullet hole in him. Dumb dog!! :)

  • dchassett

    YIKES! Poor neighbors chickens. :)

  • dchassett

    I think it’s a bit turned around at my house. I think most of the time I’m at my girls mercy and they have trained me well.
    But, yes, unless you have a big piece of property where they can hunt, they are at our mercy for food which is why we spend as much time investigating foods and nutrition and getting advice from others. So glad for this site. Love all you guys in dogfoodadvisor land. My girls are so happy and healthy now and it’s all due to all of you.

  • LabsRawesome
  • dchassett

    Actually one of my best friends had a dog(?) that was actually more wolf than dog and he was incredibly sweet and quite domesticated. She finally had to relocate it to her brother-in-law in the Carolinas because it is illegal to own a wolf as a pet in Connecticut where she was living at the time.

  • dchassett

    I didn’t realize tomatoes work ok for them. I thought they might be too acidic. Am I wrong in that thinking?

  • dchassett

    Actually my dogs are constantly eating the blueberries off my bushes, can’t hardly keep any for us. It’s a race between me and them trying to get to the blueberries. My husband, Jim, thinks the entire scene is quite amusing and just watches and laughs. I’ve had to dig out the strawberry bushes and replant into tall containers so that I can at least have a few for us. They’re great sharing with each other, not so much with us. They are quite funny. As soon as they look up and see me coming they start gobbling them down as fast as they can. Again, they crack me up every single day.

  • dchassett

    I can just imagine your home when your daughter’s hamster got eaten. Yikes! Tasty meal for your poodle, but awwww your poor daughter.

  • Shawna

    Dogs have only been eating processed kibble for a very very short time in evolutionary history. They may look completely different (some at least) from a wolf but their digestive tracts and digestive abilities are quite similar.

  • Shawna

    Uh oh!! That’s not good!!!! :) I edited my post above (which I see now is being held for approval for some reason. Hopefully it appears soon). Our Staffie, when I was growing up, ate one of my grand dad’s chickens.. My dad tied what was left of the chicken around Morton’s neck and left it for several days (Morty was an inside dog but spent those several days outside). Never bothered another chicken after that…

  • Crazy4cats

    Unfortunately, my dogs are obsessed with our neighbor’s chickens. :<(

  • Shawna

    My Papillon, the mouser mentioned above, is OBSESSED with the neighbors cherry tomatoes which grow on the fence between our property.

  • Crazy4cats

    That’s funny. I was just trying to point out that most dogs don’t have to go out and hunt for any type of food whether it be meat or vegetables. They are at our mercy!

  • neezerfan

    Actually, my dog eats tomatoes from my tomato plants in the summer and my next door neighbor’s dogs eat the blackberries from her bushes. They know when stuff is ripe. Just saying….

  • Crazy4cats

    I don’t see them out picking berries and vegetables either. LOL!

  • Nickolas

    that is like comparing chimps to human! we share 99.9% dna but are remarkably different. wolves are not dogs and you would realize that by trying to make a pet out of a wolf. Pug vs. Wolf! Educate yourself about nature and domestication.

  • Nickolas

    WTF? No meat dog food cannot get more than two stars. B.S.!!!! So closed minded and stubborn. Last time I checked dogs don’t fish or run down large game. lol

  • Suzanne

    I had a Great Dane that I adored. Problem 1, short lifespan. I decided to try a Vegan dog food. Average life of a Dane 7-10 years. Mine lived 13.5 years with no cancer, no arthritis, no cataracts, no deafness. Argue please that she was a carnivore….needed meat….just like people. I haven’t eaten meat or fish or dairy for 30 years. I’m still alive!!!!
    I love taking on meat eater’s. Eat whatever you want…at your own peril♥

  • USA Dog Treats

    Hi RJ

    I am happy to hear your dogs are doing well on V-Dog.

    Adding eggs is a great idea! Eggs are a really good source of animal protein. If you are OK with dairy I would also add cottage cheese. It is a good choice for dogs. And if you are not giving them meat only because the quality is lacking in commercial kibbles then you could add fresh meats from the supermarket lightly cooked.

    Either way I would not add any extra Veggies to their diet. They are getting plenty of Veggies in the V-Dog and they would benefit more from added eggs, dairy or any other animal protein!

    Omega 3′s from algae are a good vegetarian choice and they would be the first supplement I would recommend you try for your pooches.

  • RJ

    My dogs have been eating V-Dog for a while now, and they are doing very well! I do supplement with an egg and some well-cooked vegetables.

    I do not trust the dog food companies to put fresh, nutritious desirable animal parts in dog food…it is not profitable. Who really knows what is in there, I mean if bologna and hot dogs are made from unidentifiable animal parts, I would expect that what is left over from those things would be made into dog food. 100% chicken? What part of the chicken? The ovaries? Yuck! I would rather give my dog plant-based over unidentifiable any day!!!

  • Pattyvaughn

    Boy, Franklin, that’s pretty rude. I am not a liar. Yes, Kevin is VEGAN, not vegetarian, I know the difference and so does he. He is, however, gluttonous, even vegans can eat unhealthy. If you eat foods that are heavy on simple carbs and loaded with oils in huge amounts, then even vegans can be massively overweight. As I said, it’s not what you eat. It’s how much. I didn’t say it had nothing to do with eating, I said it had nothing to do with what you eat. There is a difference.
    And I don’t see how wanting to feed a dog appropriately makes people hypocritical. Do you understand the definition of hypocritical.

  • franklin

    Btw, it is common for many to group vegans with vegetarians. Since vegetarians eat milk and cheese (and usually a lot of it) they are typically not very healthy. An overweight vegetarian is possible.

    I’m glad that you have thought about eating less meat. Thank you for your thoughts as well. For the record, I do feed my dog a fish based meal because I haven’t figured out the proper diet and I’d rather be safe.

  • franklin

    Total lie. No way a vegan will be 300 lbs. A vegetarian perhaps but not a vegan. Not enough calories to maintain that weight.

    Very aware this is a dog site. I’ve just read so many comments about how dogs should eat this and dogs should eat that because its good for them but then they are hyprocritical about what they are putting into their own bodies. It is funny to me.

    Gluttony has everything to do with eating. It is “habitual greed or excess in eating.”

  • InkedMarie

    You do realize this is a dog food review site, right?

  • losul

    Franklin, I agree with most of what Patty said, except I’ve never personally known any vegetarians/vegans. So I couldn’t judge one, nor do I want to.

    You hate to be judged, yet you are judging those who choose to eat meat, and in an insultive manner. You are blaming eating meat for the obesity epidemic, when what I see is heavily processed foods, gluttony, addictions to bad carbs- potato chips, donuts, french fries, quick cereals, breads, etc, as most of the cause, and too much fat laden meat can be a contributing factor also. And then there are those who through no fault of the own, nor any weakness, who always have trouble maintaining a healthy weight, be it glandular. or whatever.

    I believe man evolved eating meat, even evolved as much as we have because of eating meat. I believe I need at least some to thrive, and I truly believe my dog needs even more than I to thrive. Nevertheless, you shouldn’t be judged because of your choices and beliefs for yourself nor your dog, IMO

    I don’t know why anyone would tell you that God designed us to meat, the Bible clearly instructs not to judge those who choose to eat meat, nor those who choose not to eat meat.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+14%3A1-6&version=NIV

    I think you should feel completely free to post your opinions in non-antagonistic, non-insultive way. And any responses to you should then be done in the same way. It would much better serve you in order to get your points across.

    There was a poster here several weeks ago, who always seemed to be just the opposite, antagonistic, insultive, insistive, obstinate, even illogical, IMO, He was tolerated for several weeks and probably a couple hundred posts, before he was finally (and rightfully so, IMO) booted off. He did make a few points that at least I took to heart, but again his time would have been much better spent in a respectable manner, and he probably wouldn’t have lost his posting priviledges. Not for sure if it was him, but then it seems he returned later with a different name, and even more abusive comments, even falsely accusing others of lying.

    Post with respect and without judgement or insult, and you should get the same courtesy in response. If not, those offensive responses to you should be flagged and removed, JMHO.

  • Pattyvaughn

    It’s funny that you should say this, because the only person I know who is vegan has been vegan for over the 20 years that I have known him and he has weighed over 300 lbs the whole time and over 400 for most of it. He is also the most overweight person I know.
    I have always eaten more meat than I should, much more, and for the first 30 years of my life I was 20 or more lbs under weight. I, finally, after age 35 and a couple kids gained a little bit too much weight. Gluttony has nothing to do with what you are eating. And people being overweight has nothing to do with what dogs should eat. This is a dog food site.
    BTW, I guess I’m not a good example, because I’m not against veganism for people, just dogs, cats, etc. It just doesn’t work for me, but I freely admit I would be healthier if I ate less meat and more veggies.

  • franklin

    I’d be interested to see the body shape and medical history of those critical of this dog food. Not their dogs but themselves. Those against veganism usually preach about how we are designed by God to eat meat and that is what is best for us humans and dogs; meanwhile they are gorging out on processed, disgusting McDonalds or Olive Garden with helping size for two people. Oftentimes, vegans are called wackos because they choose to live differently than the norm. To me wacko is gluttony: walking around with calves the size of a thigh, knees and joints that have been rendered useless because they have had constant pressure because of so much weight, and heart that barely pumps the blood throughout the body. I’ll take the b-12 deficiency ;) over diabetes and swollen legs any day.

  • Cinthia Gordon

    I ordered this v-dog food directly from the company and to my asthonishment the kibble size is a bit larger and this food really smells great, it appears to be a high degree of quality. Most of my dogs eat it without a problem and are healthier than ever. This food meets standards by AAFCO and it is endorced by many welfare for animals org. I still give my dogs some meat but they are doing amazing. The food is made in a very good factory here in California.
    I’m not getting into arguing.

  • Charles

    So much protein is proven wrong I could sing a song

  • Charles

    Theu sell you so much meat with deceot

  • Charles

    Miikkee is a liar liar pants on fire

  • Charles

    My dog turned into a frog after eating Shhaawwmas meat thats not neat

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    You said, “…every dog needs what works for them”.

    I couldn’t agree with you more.

  • Cavalier mom 1

    Shame on you Shawna, Inked Mary, Betsy Greere for down voting this post below.
    This poor woman has a healthy dog thanks to a vegetarien diet. Why aren’t you happy for her?
    Shawna why did you have to lie to me claiming your kd dog would not receive any medication and covering up how much protein and phosphorus you feed to all of your dogs?
    Why lie about the poor quality of life your kidney dog suffers ?

    If you were certain about your 40-54% meat protein diet as quoted on blue buffalo wild then why defend,lie and cheat about data and twist the actual amounts back and forth?

    On the wellness complete thread you flagged me cavalier claiming I would be Tiki and got my posts deleted.

    I am not Tiki or whatever. it is your karma now that people know only your information.
    You and Hounddog lied about the textbook. They said to increase protein from 18-26% not 35 or 54% like you misconstrued the facts as well as the boove kronfeld study.

    Indeed the dogs fed a very high protein diet had glomeric lesions on the kidneys so there was harm and poor quality of life.

    It is not unusal for your dog to be still alive unlike you falsely claim.

    But quality of life can be diminished if you feed so much protein and phosphorus.

    your theory about diet for kidney disease is wrong. Proof is testimony below and your conduct.
    If you and the groupies would be right with the hogh protein meat concept why bully everyone who points out a different way?
    Why misrepresent data and studies, hide facts, lie and cheat?

    You are very dishonest.t

  • another dog mom

    Okay, my kd dog is eating V-Dog. She has undiagnosed kidney issues that she came to me with at 13 weeks old. She has had x-rays, ultrasound and of course many blood and urine test. I have tried everything from raw, to cooked, to kibble to Hills K/D for her. Since being on V-Dog she is doing better then ever. She holds her urine better, looks great and seems to feel great too. Her lab test are all good. She is stable. So my take is every dog needs what works for them. She is 4 1/2 years old.
    That is it. I will not get into an arguing match.

  • Patty

    You are very wrong to compare healthy veggies with fries and burgers. Robin knows what she/he is talking about.

  • InkedMarie

    Lol, seriously? Your dogs sneak veggies so you think that’s whist they want? You are the dog owner. It doesn’t matter what they want, you give them what is best for them. The same goes for children. They may want burgers & fries but that doesn’t mean it’s good for them.

    I’m still lol’ing about they sneak food so that must be what they want. I’ve had dogs who’ll eat poop; can’t imagine what it means that they want.

  • Robin

    I will admit that I am disappointed in the comments on this food. While I agree wholeheartedly that this review is extremely bias, I also don’t get the extreme accusations.
    Yes, I am one of “those people” who do not eat meat. I have two labs. When at a party and my dogs pass on the steak to eat salad and banana off a plate, it told me that I needed to change food. They clearly wanted the veggies. I am not “forcing my lifestyle” on my boys. They chose repeatedly. With that said, they are thriving on a vegan diet. Yes it is much like humans, we all get choices to make. Do more research if interested in vegan meals for your dog. Don’t take this person’s word for the end all. V-dog has been a good choice for my boys.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Ain’t that the truth!! Though I’m not sure ignorant is quite the right word.

  • Shawna

    You can’t help those that insist on being ignorant!! :(

  • Joe

    People usually feed vegetarian diets to dogs out of compassion for ALL animals.Sometimes a vegetarian diet can be additionally beneficial like it has been determined in studies for kd-perhaps the lower phosphorus content puts less strain on the kidneys.Sometimes vets recommend a vegetarian diet for other health concerns.

    In the end all amino acids found in meat protein are found in plant protein as well.For instance Quinoa contains all essential amino acid with high bio-availability.There are health risks that come with meat consumption.The FDA admitted that arsenic is added to chicken, for instance.Now you will argue arsenic is also found in rice.There are certain toxins though that accumulate in meat and bones and are found -based on some of the aforementioned studies-up to ten times higher amounts (in toxic measures) than in plant products or water, such as for instance fluoride or lead.
    There are also additional health benefits of plant products such as antioxidants for instance.

    In the end dogs appear to be doing very well on a vegetarian diet.

    http://www.pkdiet.com/pdf/diet/Dog_Health_Survey.pdf

    http://www.heimat-fuer-tiere.de/english/articles/med/meat_makes_you_sick.shtml

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    You said that “dogs are not obligate carnivores” and that “dogs have the digestive system of an omnivore…”

    Most here would tend to agree that dogs are not obligate carnivores.

    Our own philosophy at DFA is that dogs should be considered omnivores with a notable carnivorous bias.

    However, vegetarian diets are designed to be consumed by animals considered to be herbivores — not omnivores.

  • Joe

    I have made my point.I see what is going on here with you ‘and all other top contributors’.Good luck to you.

  • Pattyvaughn

    What part of congenital kidney disease do you not get? They die young too. And she never said the only thing she does for her dog is food, She said the high meat diet was not harming her dog. Even with medications and kidney support supplements, these dogs are not known for living past 1 1/2 years post diagnosis. Certainly, if the diet was contributing to the kidney disease, it would have had some affect before 7 to 8 years later. Her dog is not medicated, does not receive IV or subQ fluids, and is not getting dialysis or any other treatment other than food and nutraceuticals.
    And now, like Shawna and all the others, I’m done with you.

  • Joe

    Hill’s do not have scholarly practitioners.They may have scientists.I read through Shawna’s posts and no.1 am not sure about the kd diagnostic,perhaps the dog has a genetic defect, but no need to go there, and no.2 it appears that Shawna also has given the dog some natural remedies for kidney support.

  • Joe

    Your ‘VET’s diet for kidney disease HIGH in animal protein’ you are referring to is not a regular vet diet but it is the new raw kd diet by Darwin’s.And it is not a regular ‘diet high in meat protein’ at all,it contains phosphorus inhibitors and supportive herbs.As I kept trying to make my point,it is not as much the protein but the phosphorus and other factors which puts a strain on the kidneys by generally promoting excessive amounts of meat protein.

    From Darwin’s website:
    Key Benefits:

    Added herbal supplements support healthy kidney function

    Appropriate moisture content to naturally maintain essential fluid balance for kidney health.

    Low phosphorus formula

    Highly palatable, appeals to even the most finicky dogs.

    http://www.darwinspet.com/kidney-support-for-dogs/

    The diets you previously recommended for kd were not low on phosphorus at all as you did not mentioned previously that phosphorus would be an issue and recommended to senior and kd dogs ‘extra meat protein’ only without phosphorus inhibitors.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I didn’t say you were supporting them, I said they have scholarly scientists. This is the sort of thing that Shawna was talking about when she mentioned you making things up. You are taking what people say and assuming what they mean and using that as if it is in fact what they meant.
    Nobody has any idea how any dog would do on a different diet than what it was on, BUT they do know how long kidney patients usually live after diagnosis and it certainly isn’t more than 7 years WITHOUT further symptoms.

  • Joe

    I’m not supporting Hill’s diet at all and never quoted their studies.Would be interesting to know how Shawna’s dog would have responded to a vegetarien diet.Pursuant to the aformentioned study there are promising results, perhaps due to the lower phosphorus content in vegetarian food than meat.Quinua and tofu have high bio-availability while being low on phosphorus.

  • Pattyvaughn

    The problem is that they were finding that the adjustments that vets were recommending right off the bat actually did harm. There is a time and place for reducing protein in KD patients, but reducing it too early was found to be detrimental. However, quality of protein may also play a factor, which is why for early KD I would stick with meat protein, but no kibble.
    BTW, the vet recommended diet for KD, Hill’s Prescription Diet K/D is known for allowing dogs to live about a year to a year and a half post diagnosis, and it is nearly vegetarian and designed by vet nutritionists, those scholarly scientists you speak so highly of. Shawna’s dog has lived quite a few times that amount, unmedicated. In all my years working for a vet, that was completely unheard of.

  • Joe

    There are many studies out there on the issue but it does appear that excessive amounts of phosphorus is a negative factor and health concern in a healthy person or dog.Protein itself may not be the issue but the other factors that come with the meat consumption.

  • Pattyvaughn

    If they had compassion for dogs, they wouldn’t own them, because they were not made to be herbivore, or they would feed them as nature intended, because they were not made to be herbivores.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Joe, I worked for my vets for 14 years, I don’t have to ask. You don’t have to modify the diet of a dog in early stages of KD, except under special circumstances. The prescription diets were made for late stage kidney failure, yet most vets prescribe them at the first sign of KD, even though it have been proven that those diets are not appropriate at that time. For this reason alone, I would not put over much stock in most vets advice about nutrition. But in adition to that, I have had many of the same classes in nutrition that the vets get and they are severely lacking. Most are seminars put on by those big name companies that want them to recommend their food. A total of 2 of my classes were not put on by those companies. The first was large animal nutrition. It included nutrition for cattle, horses, goats,sheep, pigs, etc. including some of the more common zoo animals. It was a 3 credit class, so you can guess that it didn’t go into too much detail. We did learn to formulate a horses diet since that was this professor’s special interest.
    The second class was small animal nutrition. It covered cats, dogs, rats, mice, ferrets, guinea pigs, several different pet birds, common pet reptiles, etc. We also had guest speakers from all the major dog food manufacturers and classes in the proper use of prescription diets. It was also a 3 credit class. I’m sure you can tell that it couldn’t have gone into too much detail.
    That is the other reason that I don’t ask too many vets about nutrition. You may not be capable of learning anything on your own, but I definitely am, so I read everything I can find and I continue to learn.
    If you are happy with your choice to force dogs to be vegan then that’s fine, for your dogs, but it isn’t fine for mine and it isn’t in line with the beliefs of the author of this site or the other regular posters or nature. So you are going to have someone disagree with you at ever turn on this site. That’s what we’re here for.

  • Joe

    These ‘whack jobs’ are actually either true scientists or animal lovers who love ALL animal including cows, rabbits,pigs and don’t eat meat out of compassion.

  • Joe

    Not exactly accurate-here is what you said:

    “Alcohol can cause cirrhosis as can high fructose corn syrup (and large amounts of fructose from fruits),”

    There are alot of theories out there some of them make no sense at all.

  • Joe

    What did I ‘make up’?Are you remembering your own posts?You stated all of that in earlier posts, I can quote them without a problem if you wish.

  • Joe

    When you have kd a special diet low in phosphorus is recommended.Ask your doctor and veterinarian.

  • Joe

    High phosphorus levels in meat is a health concern-the right amount of phosphorus is of essence-when you have 50% meat content in a dog food or more you may feed too much phosphorus even in a healthy dog.A lot of dogs die of kidney disease these days and kidney is often an issue in senior dogs.One last information—It does appear that excessive amounts of phosphorus can harm the kidneys. You for sure did not say ‘in kd dog or senior dog I recommend a diet high in meat protein but you also need to add phosphorus inhibitors since phosphorus is a concern.’You simply recommend ‘high meat protein diets’ which come with ‘high phosphorus diets’. In addition research on the issue show mixed results regarding high/low protein diets in re. to kd. (w/o phosphorus at issue only protein).

    Dr. Joseph Vassalotti, chief medical officer at the National Kidney Foundation, says:
    “Other studies have suggested that once diagnosed with kidney disease, weight loss may slow kidney disease progression, but this is the first research study to support losing belly fat and limiting phosphorus consumption as a possible way to prevent kidney disease from developing.”

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/268144.php

  • InkedMarie

    You’ve been more patient than I’d have been.

  • Joe

    Appreciate the article-as long as phosphorus is kept low (possibly with phosphorus inhibitors) a diet high in meat protein doesn’t appear to have an adverse effect on kd dogs.Shawna kept recommending to kd dogs and senior dogs ‘a diet high in meat protein’.Phosphorus is a concern with kd dogs.They used to think high protein is an issue-it is not but high amounts of meat comes usually with high amounts of phosphorus-Phosphorus is a known negative factor in kd- hope this makes sense.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    In an important article entitled, “Mythology of Protein Restriction for Dogs with Reduced Renal Function” written by Dr. Kenneth C. Bovée (DVM, MMedSc) professor of Clinical Studies at the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine and published in the Compendium on Continuing Education for the Practicing Veterinarian (1998), the author concludes:

    “The continued use of protein restriction in the absence of scientific evidence deserves thoughtful consideration. I would suggest that the dogma and mythology of a possible benefit are so embedded in the thought process of veterinarians and owners that these cannot be easily dislodged despite the scientific evidence. I would refer to this as the myth of dietary protein and characterize it as a negative myth.”

    Please be sure to check out that article. And of course, the numerous references Dr. Bovee uses to support his position.

    By the way, Joe, when someone disagrees with conventional medicine or openly suggests an alternative approach to a health issue does not automatically mean a person is practicing medicine without a license.

  • LabsRawesome

    You are irrational and Shawna is done talking to you.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Some do.

  • Joe

    Did not say that but for sure they don’t recommend a meat based diet high in protein and high in phosphorus.

  • Joe

    Of course because ‘she said so’.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Since when do vets in general recommend a vegan diet for dogs with KD like you have?

  • Joe

    Wow-your research of 4 dogs only is worth the effort and my research of thousands of people and dogs of 35 scientific studies worldwide you can read the references below the study, not?That is so irrational.

  • LabsRawesome

    Agree.

  • Shawna

    I’m sorry, I’ve never been this rude before and “I don’t want to offend you” but the research is there, you are just not worth the effort… Take care…

  • LabsRawesome

    Joe, the same logic applies to your theory that dogs can thrive on vegetarian diets. So you found a few whack jobs that think veggie diets are good for dogs, do you want a cookie?

  • Joe

    Can you repeat the peer-reviewed article? All Shawna has provided is an article with 4 dogs that showed that a high protein diet did not damage the kidneys-not much proof to me.

  • Shawna

    Wow, you make things up as you go along… I clearly remember saying that grain fed, feedlot living cattle are not healthy. I clearly remember saying that I eat and feed organic and grass finished (when able) due to this reason.

    I do feel that today’s grains are not natural in the human or canine diet and I get that information from Professor and scientist Loren Cordain of Colorado State University.

    I noted that not all will be intolerant of all lectins but most will be intolerant of at least one and wheat is problematic in many.

    I also remember stating my diet of mainly vegetables with smaller amounts of fruits and meat and sprouted grains…. I also said I commend you for your commitment but feel it is not for everyone and especially not for canine and felines. You really seem to be placing words in others mouths to help further your cause… We all see it Joe…

  • JellyCat

    You were given enough peer reviewed references, in fact I’m sure you can do you own literature research.
    I’m just trying to point out the fact that if you want to feed vegan you can, your dog will be able to tolerate it. However, you choices are limited as in this instance you’re forced to feed highly processed surrogates. By the way, this particular product has some unhealthy additives which are there because they are cheaper and not healthier. For this reason, I wouldn’t consider feeding it even if I believed that vegan diet is the bet for my dog.

  • Joe

    There are lots of dictators in the world that have a lot of followers too.Shawna this country has thousands of nutritionists and veterinarians.You found a few who support your theory?These people are not scientists or true scholars.There is no evidence that this theory is true.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Yes, but your dog loving them is not what makes them healthy.

  • Joe

    I have read the article you have provided-not impressed.Sample size was only 4 dogs-lots of room for error and all it was said was in conclusion:”These results do not support the hypothesis that feeding a high protein diet had a significant adverse effect on renal function or morphology.”A high meat diet did not help with kidney disease.The scholarly article I have provided showed that a vegetarian diet put much less strain on the kidneys than a meat based diet.

  • LabsRawesome

    EXACTLY.

  • Shawna

    Actual studies on canines

    “The only exception was found in dogs fed a reduced-protein diet, which
    failed to appropriately adjust renal tubular excretion of sodium and
    phosphate. The only advantage of reduced dietary protein in this study
    was a reduction in blood urea nitrogen (BUN). Disadvantages of
    reduced-protein diets were reduced glomerular filtration rate (GFR) and
    renal plasma flow. In the second study, the hypothesis that large
    amounts of dietary protein sustain renal hyperfunction and produce
    progressive glomerulosclerosis in dogs as previously reported in rats
    was tested. Results failed to find a pattern of deterioration of renal
    function over 4 y. Light microscopic changes and electron microscopy
    also failed to find glomerular injury similar to that reported in
    rodents. These results do not support the hypothesis that feeding a high
    protein diet had a significant adverse effect on renal function or
    morphology.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1941208

  • Joe

    ‘not designed to help dogs achieve the best health..’-says who?What kind of ‘science’ are you talking about?Are you also like others talking about non-peer reviewed articles of some people online making outrages claims?If you would study the scientific evidence and articles I have provided written by true scholars and know what I know backed up by science I’m sure you would be making different choices.

  • LabsRawesome

    I never said OBLIGATE Carnivore. Those are your words. And dogs require zero carbohydrates to live. I am glad you agree that you need a reality check.

  • Shawna

    Google — are you ready for the list? Here’s just a few that can be found online.

    Dr. Chris Collins
    Dr. Bruce Symes
    Dr. Anita Moore
    Dr. Karen Becker
    Dr. Peter Dobias
    Dr. Kim Bloomer Veterinary Naturopath
    Dr. Amy Nesselrodt
    Dr. Tom Lonsdale
    Dr. Ian Billinghurst
    Dr. Martin Goldstein
    Dr. Stephen Blake
    Dr. Jeannie Thomason Veterinary Naturopath
    Dr. Christina Chambreau
    Dr. Barbara Royal

    and a few nutritionists

    Lew Olson
    Steve Brown
    Mary Straus
    Kymythy Schultz
    Beth Taylor

    Phosphorus doesn’t damage a healthy kidney and doesn’t cause kd but once in kidney failure it MAY need to be restricted in early disease and will need to be restricted as the disease progresses. Do your homework on this Joe.. PLEASE

  • JellyCat

    Joe, with all due respect, I do understand that you believe in that vegan diet is the best diet. However, science and believe are different things. Believe is more like a religion and has nothing to do with facts. Indeed, I’m pretty sure your dog can sustain life on this kibble as it has all, artificially added by the way, essential amino acids. And of course vitamins and other micronutrients. However, it is highly unlikely you would be able to sustain your dog’s health on home made vegan diet.
    This particular product marketed to people who believe that vegan diet is great for dogs, and is not designed to help dogs achieve the best health outcomes.

  • Joe

    Dogs are NOT obligate carnivores and there is SCIENCE that points out that dogs have the digestive system of an omnivore and genetics that show they can digest carbs better than some people like you believe.There are many examples of happy vegetarian dogs.REALITY? I think a reality check is warranted!

  • LabsRawesome

    Joe, you are ridiculous. Dogs are carnivores, no matter how much you want them to be vegetarians. If you want a vegetarian pet, get a rabbit. And recommending foods is not practicing medicine. You need to stop living in your little fantasy world, and come back to reality.

  • Joe

    According to your theories we cannot drink milk,eat tomatoes,soy, tofu, legumes lots of fruits or any grains. According to what you said meat is the healthiest thing to eat-that’s so outdated.

  • Joe

    Since when do vets in general recommend a diet for dogs with kd high in meat AND phosphorus like you have?