Taste of the Wild (Dry)

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Rating: ★★★★½

Taste of the Wild dry dog food earns the Advisor’s second highest tier rating of 4.5 stars.

The Taste of the Wild product line includes seven dry dog foods, four claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages and three for adult maintenance.

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review:

  • Taste of the Wild Southwest Canyon
  • Taste of the Wild Sierra Mountain (4 stars)
  • Taste of the Wild High Prairie Puppy Formula
  • Taste of the Wild Wetlands Formula (5 stars)
  • Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Puppy Formula
  • Taste of the Wild High Prairie Formula (5 stars)
  • Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Formula (4 stars)

Taste of the Wild Dog Food Wetlands Formula with Roasted Fowl was selected to represent the others in the line for this review.

Taste of the Wild Wetlands Formula

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 36% | Fat = 20% | Carbs = 36%

Ingredients: Duck, duck meal, chicken meal, egg product, sweet potatoes, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potatoes, roasted quail, roasted duck, smoked turkey, natural flavor, tomato pomace, ocean fish meal, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, Yucca schidigera extract, dried fermentation products of Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei and Lactobacillus plantarum, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 4.4%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis32%18%NA
Dry Matter Basis36%20%36%
Calorie Weighted Basis30%40%30%

The first ingredient in this dog food is duck. Although it is a quality item, raw duck contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

The next two ingredients include duck meal and chicken meal. Poultry meals are considered meat concentrates and contain nearly 300% more protein than fresh poultry.

The fourth item is egg product, a dehydrated form of shell-free eggs. Quality can vary significantly. Lower grade egg product can even come from commercial hatcheries — from eggs that have failed to hatch.

In any case, eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

The fifth ingredient lists sweet potato. Sweet potatoes are a gluten-free source of complex carbohydrates in a dog food. They are naturally rich in dietary fiber and beta carotene.

The sixth ingredient includes peas. Peas are a quality source of carbohydrates. Plus (like all legumes) they’re rich in natural fiber.

However, peas contain about 25% protein, a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The seventh ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is obtained from rendering chicken, a process similar to making soup in which the fat itself is skimmed from the surface of the liquid.

Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid, an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing, chicken fat is actually a quality ingredient.

A little further down the list we find three more meat items

  • Quail
  • Duck
  • Turkey

After the natural flavor, we find tomato pomace. Tomato pomace is a controversial ingredient, a by-product remaining after processing tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.

Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content, while others scorn it as an inexpensive pet food filler.

Just the same, there’s probably not enough tomato pomace here to make much of a difference.

Ocean fish meal is yet another protein-rich meat concentrate.

Fish meal is typically obtained from the “clean, dried, ground tissue of undecomposed whole fish and fish cuttings” of commercial fish operations.1

Unfortunately, this particular item is anonymous. Because various fish contain different types of fats, we would have preferred to have known the actual source species.

We are pleased to note that, unlike many fish meals, this particular item2 appears to be ethoxyquin-free.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With two notable exceptions

First, the manufacturer appears to have applied friendly bacteria to the surface of the kibble after cooking. These special probiotics are used to enhance a dog’s digestive and immune functions.

And lastly, this food also contains chelated minerals, minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Taste of the Wild Dry Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Taste of the Wild dry dog food appears to be an above-average kibble.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 36%, a fat level of 20% and an estimated carbohydrate content of 36%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 31% and a mean fat level of 18%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 43% for the overall product line.

Above-average protein. Near-average fat. And below-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

Even when you consider the protein-boosting effect of the peas and pea protein found in the 2 puppy formulas, this is the profile of a kibble containing a notable amount of meat.

Due to their apparently differing meat content, some of the products received either higher or lower ratings.

Bottom line?

Taste of the Wild dry dog food is a grain-free kibble supplying a notable amount of identified meat meals as its main sources of animal protein, thus earning the brand 4.5 stars.

Highly recommended.

Those looking for a quality grain-free wet food may wish to visit our review of Taste of the Wild canned dog food.

Special Alert

Rice ingredients can sometimes contain arsenic. Until the US FDA establishes safe upper levels for arsenic content, pet owners may wish to limit the total amount of rice fed in a dog's daily diet.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Other spellings: TOTW

Notes and Updates

12/11/2009 Original review
07/21/2010 Updated
10/31/2010 Updated (Sierra Mountain Added)
07/14/2011 Updated (Pacific Stream and Sierra Mountain rating reduced to 4.5 stars)
10/27/2011 Added two new puppy formulas
11/20/2011 Updated, Pacific Stream and Sierra Mountain re-rated
10/02/2012 Last Update

  1. Association of American Feed Control Officials
  2. Taste of the Wild Customer Service, 7/7/2010
  • Elizabeth

    My poodle has gastric problems with grain based foods. Her gastric upsets are far less now than what they had been, no major reoccurrences of gastric enteritis or the pancreatitis that we almost lost her to since switching her to this food. We switched the cats to it as well, I attribute it giving my elderly cat an extra year with us despite kidney disease, it has decreased the gas ( thank heavens) that our Tom cat had from other food.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Above the yellow box is a list of all the foods covered by this review. If they got a different rating than the overall of 4.5*, then that is in parenthesis after the name of the food. The food that is gone over in detail in this review was picked as an average to represent all of them.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    It’s rated above – 4.5 stars.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashley.m.haws Ashley Michelle Haws

    Does anyone know where I can find a rating for the new Southwest Canyon formula?

  • ZhyKitty

    Probably varies by where you are and which tractor/feed supply stores you have around.
    (The closest to us is a mom n pop owned store rather than a chain.)
    I was very pleased to find that we could still get good food for them after moving out here in the middle of nowhere.
    They have a really great selection of both brands – including grain frees, which is necessary for ours with two of our elderly dogs having allergies.
    (They’ve been clear and have beautiful coats since switching them!)
    It would be nice if we didn’t have to drive so far to get to the good foods, as it’s quite a hike to any stores from out here, but we just stock up once a month. Perhaps someday the word will get out to the point where people won’t settle for the poisonous Soylent Green foods available in grocery stores and stores will actually start carrying responsible brands instead of what they have now.
    (Well, one can dream.)

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I wouldn’t consider Taste of the Wild to be better than Innova Prime. Merrick grain-free would probably be as good but Tractor Supply only carries Merrick grain-inclusive (at least my Tractor Supply only carries the grain-inclusive).

  • ZhyKitty

    I was shocked but in my extremely rural area, Petsmart and Petco don’t sell the better brands but my local tractor and feed store does! I can buy TOTW and even Merrick there! You might want to look if you’re wanting to do better than Innova.

  • Guest

    Wow, we now get TOTW here down under. I recall a couple of years ago, wanting this one and it wasn’t available here. I might try this for dogs’ buster cube treats rotation. Just came across a site that sells it so it must be being imported now. I sure hope that it’s not heated above 100 degrees Celsius or gamma irradiated in order to surpass Australia’s customs legislation. From what I can see from the pictures, it doesn’t appear to have the necessary warning, “Do Not Feed to Cats”, if it was indeed irradiated.

  • Guest

    Try adding full fat organic yoghurt or even kefir to it instead of the canned TOTW formula. It may also entice your other dog more to eat it as well as aid in better digestion of such dry food through the added goodness of probiotics that such can provide.

  • http://www.facebook.com/fred.yenne Fred Yenne

    I have been feeding my English Bulldog Taste of the Wild food for 3 years now. He has glueten allergies and would have baseball size bald patches on his sides in the spring and summer. He would scratch and itch all the time. Talked to the breeder I got him from and they said his father had the same problem. Vet just kept giving me anti biotics and anti histamine Switched his food and he doesn’t have that problem anymore. He is no longer on meds. An added bonus is he lost 10 pounds. Feed my cats the same and they love it. They are fixed and never did gain weight like previous cats did on other foods. The older cat actually lost a few pounds also.

  • PetcareByTess

    Thanks for all the help guys – I think I will persevere with totw and maybe add in a puppy specific canned food to make doubly sure haha

  • Caitlin

    Great, thank you!

  • Pattyvaughn

    Dogs and humans only have one strain that they don’t have in common identified so far, so human is fine and a lot cheaper.

  • Caitlin

    Yes they do and I think they are a great food, but I always encourage people to do their own research b/c they may find something better for their situation. Also, there are some people who know a lot more than I know about dog ingredients and probably would disagree that it’s that great of a food. So, I just try not to make opinionated claims sound like facts on these types of sites to keep the peace lol.

  • Caitlin

    That’s good your dog has done well, mine just didn’t do well with it. Some dogs can be allergic to potatoes and I’m thinking that’s the case with mine so any food with potatoe doesn’t aggree with him.

  • Caitlin

    I found it, but the one I found on their site is for humans it looks like. So, is that the right one and okay to give to dogs too, or is there a formula for dogs? Thanks!!

  • xrayg77

    I am currently feeding my dogs Chicken Soup… and I have very picky eaters. I can’t get them to feed unless I add hot water – so it really is like soup. I am hoping my dogs like this switch to TOTW just like your dogs do. Fingers crossed!

  • Pattyvaughn

    I’m glad your dog is doing so well, but you should know that probiotics sprayed on the outside of most kibbles are for show only. The heat in the warehouse where they are stored before going out to the stores, and the heat in the trucks that they are delivered in, kill off the probiotics. And Dr. Mike didn’t run tests on the food. He bases his reviews on the info provided by the company. You should read his article “The Problem with Dog Food Reviews”

  • Janeen Utley

    There are added ProBiotics on the outside coating,(as well as in the food) but the outer coating of Probiotcs, gives dogd w/digestive issues immediate help! ! =) Oh,& as far as the Sweet Potatoes, & Potatoes, There are Peas in this food , that actually give this food More added Protein, which is very good for Sugar Problems, & need the Potassium, as well as Some Carbs to balance it out properly. Read the test they did on both Dry Kibble, & Wet TOTW . They give Both 4 1/2 Stars, actually some were 5 Stars!! I Do Know that my 8 yr old Boston Terrier, who has Stomach/Digestive problems, & is Extremely Finicky, LOVES Them Both , ( I mix them) He used to Drag out feeding time, Now he gets Right down to Eating it up, & Licks the bowl Clean !!! No More Stomach problems!!! YEAY!!! ♡♥♡

  • Hound Dog Mom

    The SD formula we get at my shelter for our pups is only 22% protein. I wouldn’t never recommend a food that low in protein for an adult, let alone a growing puppy..

  • Shawna

    Puppies need a bit higher protein and fat than the AAFCO minimums for adult dogs. I wouldn’t call that vastly different though. All Life Stage foods meet the AAFCO minimums for puppies and therefore are more than appropriate to feed them. :)

  • Tom Edward

    I believe that Innova brands actually do receive decent ratings.

  • Tom Edward

    your vet is correct. Puppies have vastly different nutritional needs for their first year and should be fed a quality puppy formula. If you do not feel like researching a puppy formula ask your vet for a recommendation. My 2 German Shepherds did well on Hill’s Science Diet puppy formula but honestly I know more now than I did then and do not think I would actually recommend Science Diet any longer. Both of my dogs are over 5 years old so I really do not know what a good puppy formula is at this time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1380594876 Greg Leonard

    We fed this to our dogs for a few years. One of our dogs died of old age and I attribute his last two years of very active healthy life to this brand. Our other dog is very picky though and quite frankly never liked this food unless we added the wet formula to it which gets pricey. We switched over to Grandma Mae’s Country Naturals Grain Free (Dry) and she seems to like that a lot more than TOTW. My guess is the TOTW is a bit too exotic for her taste. Grandma Mae’s is a bit more expensive but we actually end up saving since we dont have to buy the wet stuff anymore. Its an all-life stages formula too which is great since we have a new puppy!

  • Lab Lady

    yes I feed it to 2 terrier mix rescues and I gota tell you, I think it’s causing a staining issue under their chins and the terrier chi mix also has been licking his paws a lot. I think the sweet potato and the tomato pumice are a no no for them?

  • Lab lady

    same thing happened to one of my labs this past winter on TOTW Salmon, after feeding all 6 dogs that ~ Iam going to mae a change as the Dick Van Patten didnt do the trick and I think we have a Candida Yeast allergy issue issue to consider. I may try the 4health grain free or Nutrisource?

  • Pattyvaughn

    I can’t speak for the laws in Australia or anywhere else, but here in the US, All Life Stages is puppy food and every other age as well. The AAFCO has 2 nutrient profiles; Growth and Adult. If a food fits the profile for Growth the company may choose to label it All Life Stages. There is nothing in an ALS food that is not OK for any age, though they are usually higher in calories. It is certainly appropriate for puppies.

  • PetcareByTess

    Hi :-) I am currently feeding both my staffordshire puppies Taste of the Wild High Prairie Formula as I was told this is an all life stages food.

    My female pup Juno doesn’t seem to be putting on any weight, while my male puppy Hunter is growing ridiculously fast. I asked my vet to make sure that Juno was within a healthy weight range and she didn’t seem too concerned even though she is a LOT smaller than Hunter was at the same age.

    However – she did say that I should be feeding a dedicated puppy food as an all life stages food could not possibly meet the different requirements of a puppy, adult senior dog etc.

    Is this correct? I noticed in the list of foods there is a TOTW puppy formula so maybe the one I am feeding is not all life stages at all despite what I was told by the supplier? I am in Australia and limited on what I can get – the puppy version isn’t available here that I have found.

    I spent quite a bit of time researching the best food to feed my pups and will be quite disappointed if the TOTW High Prairie Formula isn’t what I should be feeding as I thought it was the best I found.

    What does everyone think? Do I need to change to a puppy formula in a different brand? :-(

  • Pattyvaughn

    Dogs are not immune to salmonella. Healthy dogs are resistant to it, but that is a long way from immune. The problem is that some dogs may look perfectly healthy, but their gut microflora is not in balance so their gut is not healthy. This is a HUGE part of the immune system, so a seemingly healthy dog can have salmonella overgrowth. Many dogs have died from it, but it is not usually diagnosed. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t occur.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Scott –

    That’s incorrect. Dogs can get salmonella. It’s not likely that a healthy dog will get salmonella, however immune-compromised dogs are susceptible and humans are susceptible. People should be freaking out over salmonella contaminated kibble because that means it’s not being processed properly. Kibble is a cooked product and should be sterile. If the end product tests positive for salmonella what does that tell you? Dirty manufacturing facility, lack of sanitation, improper storage, etc. I wouldn’t want my dogs eating food manufactured somewhere crawling with salmonella.

  • http://www.facebook.com/scott.morrison.9480111 Scott Morrison

    Salmonella can’t hurt a dog .. If you wash your hands after feeding your dog or cleaning the bowls you will be okay also … Diamond did what was right and shouldn’t have people freaking out over the recall because no dog would have died or gotten sick … lOOk it up ..

  • Pattyvaughn

    Look for Dr. Langer’s and Soil Based Organisms at Swansons.

  • Caitlin

    Thanks! I’m going to look into those!

  • Pattyvaughn

    So far I use Mercola’s and Swanson’s. The Swansons is a much better price and they have two different ones I like.

  • Caitlin

    Nature’s Variety Instinct I’ve heard of too! Which probiotic brand do you use?

  • Pattyvaughn

    Bummer about the recall. Brothers can only be ordered over the internet unless you live close to Ft. Lauderdale, FL. Orijen is a really good food too. I also really like Nature’s Variety Instinct.

  • Caitlin

    Innove Prime the fish formula. I know that particular brand probably isn’t the best of the best, but it’s just much easier for me to get to since Petco and Petsmart sell it. And honestly, it has cured my dog, not saying though that any other low glycemic wouldn’t do the same. Just thankfully the easier access one has helped my pit so much. It has been recalled though unfortunately due to salmonella and I am waiting for it to come back on the shelves. I ordered some Orijen to replace it for now which I had read Orijen is another low glycemic food, so I’m not worried of any adverse reactions. I hadn’t heard of Brothers Complete before; I’ll have to look into that one too and see if I can get it anywhere near me. It has been 3 years of one rough roller coaster ride though in trying to figure out how to help him. Dealing with yeast is just not fun. We got a boston terrier puppy 4 months ago and I just pray she doesn’t develope any bad allergies!

  • Pattyvaughn

    Caitlin
    What did you finally settle on? I had the same issues with one of mine and found Brothers Complete to be an excellent food for his issues.

  • Caitlin

    Every dog is different and your dog may do very well on this food. However, in dealing with my own yeasty dog, low gylcemic dog foods have been the absolute best for him. TOTW contains sweet potatoes and potatoes and with that, it may not help your dogs yeast due to the sugars in the potatoes feeding the yeast to stay alive and active in your dogs body. Again tho, your dog may do fine on this food. My dog probably has issues with lectins in potatoes and thats why he didn’t do well on this food or any of the other 5 grain free foods I tried. It takes trial and error to figure out the heart of the issue and when I finally found a low glycemic dog food without potatoes for my dog, it took a full 3 months for his yeast to entirely clear away. So, it takes time to see what will work too. However, you will know right away if something doesn’t work and causes a bad reaction; that has been my experience anyway. Google low glycemic foods, if you’re interested in that route, and you will find a few brands you can try.

  • Pattyvaughn

    It may or may not help with allergies, depending on what your dog is actually reacting to. It is better than a lot of foods for yeast, but you need to get the carbs as low as possible to fight yeast. You also need to supplement with a good multi-strain probiotic. Coconut oil is a good healthy additive, so don’t feel bad about using it as long as it’s not too much.

  • Jean

    Is taste of the wild any good for helping a dog with yeast infections or allergies? i bought Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream just last week and my dog is picking at it and will only eat it with coconut oil added. thank you. Jean

  • WaukAnon

    We had been feeding our Husky ‘Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul’ for almost a year after we rescued her based on that was what the rescue had been feeding her. She was always kinda picky with eating, and would at times skip meals. We switched to TOTW Pacific Stream, and we have not had an issue in the last four months. She will now eat without adding wet food or broth, and will usually have nothing left in her dish. Her coat seems softer and ‘fluffier’ if that’s a proper term, and seems very happy with the food change.

  • open_Y0ur_miNd

    After giving TOTW a try for over 8 months, I had to give it up. I just could not keep weight on my dogs, I was feeding one of my goldens over 6 cups a day, his coat looked dry and he blew his coat at the beginning and never fully came in while on it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/xmommyjessicax Sororitylife Missjess

    nope none of those here… im just waiting for the tractor supply co… june is almost here!!!

  • Crazy4cats

    Hi-
    Stopped by our local Del’s today and yes, they carry 4health dry cat and dog food, but no canned. Bummer! It’s not a very large store. There is another one a little further away. I’ll give a call b4 I drive there.

  • LabsRawesome

    Yes, the grain inclusive 4health is made by Diamond, but the new 4health grain free is made by Ainsworth/Dads. 4health is also available at Del’s Farm/feed stores. :)

  • LabsRawesome

    That’s great! Hey, if you have a Del’s Farm/feed store, someone on another thread said that they carry 4health there as well. :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1140685339 Betsy Greer

    The crazy thing is, that list changes relatively frequently and isn’t so cut and dry; ie: Canidae manufactures SOME of their products at their own plant, Ethos; and the new 4Health Grain Free is made by Ainsworth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/xmommyjessicax Sororitylife Missjess

    According to Wikipedia, Diamond contracts with the following:

    Canidae Pet Food
    Costco’s Kirkland Signature
    Solid Gold Health Products for Pets
    Dick Van Patten’s Natural Balance Pet Foods
    Kirkland Signature Nature’s Domain (Available only at Costco)
    Taste of the Wild Pet Foods
    Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover’s Soul
    4Health (Available only at Tractor Supply Company)
    NutraGold Super Premium Holistic Formulas

  • http://www.facebook.com/xmommyjessicax Sororitylife Missjess

    Im not completely comfortable with diamond but until the tractor suplly co is finished being built its currently the most bang for my buck.. ya know?

  • http://www.facebook.com/xmommyjessicax Sororitylife Missjess

    but i have no tractor supply co till june! its being built as we speak it will be the first one in my state and its only 25 min away ;)

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi BoxerMom –

    Why not rotate between the brands? Variety is healthier – the more foods you can feed the better so don’t limit your dog to just one.

  • BoxerMom

    I have a boxer puppy that I am getting ready to give big boy food, searching right now looking into Fromm call of the wild or solid gold ?
    I want to stay grain free and like the fish based idea,
    Any suggestions ?
    Puppy food has been royal canine
    Than you

  • sisu

    If you suspect a reaction to an ingredient in the food stop feeding it immediately. Discontinue all treats and table food. Compare the plants in your home, on your property and anywhere the dog walks to those on a poisonous plant list. Look for containers of anti-freeze, oil, pesticides, household cleaners anywhere within the reach of the dog or being used in the home or outside. The dog can have a reaction to anything as simple as laundry detergent, floor cleaners and air fresheners. Ask neighbors, landlords and city officials if there has there been any fertilizer or insecticide used anywhere the dog walks including a dog park.

    If nothing is found this could be a neurological disorder. The dog needs a veterinary neurologist, not a vet in general practice. These specialists can be found in larger cities. The best option is a veterinary teaching hospital where there are many specialists in one location who can diagnose and recommend appropriate treatment.

    While waiting for an appointment with a specialist feed the dog a balanced home prepared diet. Also, give distilled water util the problem is diagnosed in case there is a problem with your water source.

    Home Prepared Diets:
    http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html

    Poisonous Plants:
    http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/poison-control/plants/

    Toxic Foods:
    http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/poison-control/people-foods.aspx

  • LabsRawesome

    Hey, not sure if you’re aware, but 4health grain free is $36.99 for 30lb. It’s a TSC exclusive.

  • abdpac

    If you are comfortable with Diamond, TOTW is a good choice. If there is a Costco near you, the Nature’s Domain is similar to TOTW (also made by Diamond) at a great price (32.98/30# for the salmon/sweet potato at my Costco). I have fed both, but currently use Earthborn Holistic. The Coastal Catch (28#) has been on sale for $39.99 since August at my pet food store. There is a frequent buyer program, too. Also, Earthborn will send you coupons frequently if you sign up online ;)

  • http://www.facebook.com/xmommyjessicax Sororitylife Missjess

    also there is no tractor supply co… yet here… it opens in june when it does open i am open to try 4health ive looked into that one ;)

  • http://www.facebook.com/xmommyjessicax Sororitylife Missjess

    i have… but given the price for TOTW at $44.99+ tax at my local feed store for 30 lbs thats a great deal compared to the other grain free foods there…

  • LabsRawesome

    If you want to get away from Diamond manufactured foods, there’s always the new 4health grain free. It’s made by Ainsworth. There are lots of good grain free foods, check out the 5 star list.

  • http://www.facebook.com/xmommyjessicax Sororitylife Missjess

    yeah i know but my dog wants to keep eating with nutrisource.. thats why im trying TOTW

  • Melissaandcrew

    I personally will not use Diamond products, and did have decent luck with the Nutrisouce. I did find that you do not have to feed as much as the directions say, and it lasts a fairly long time-not sure about TOTW. Nutrosource also has a frequent buyer program.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    If she was doing good on Seafood Select and does fine with TOTW, then you can always use both foods for variety. My dogs get about 10 different things to eat!

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    I agree with sandy and marie… if it works that’s all that matters. Like people, each dog can have different dietary needs.

    If price wasn’t a problem I’d personally go with Nutrisource, as I trust the company more than Diamond (makers of TOTW). Nutrisource is small and family owned, so they can keep tabs on the quality of their product easier than a huge company like Diamond can.

    On the surface, though, both are good foods.

  • http://www.facebook.com/xmommyjessicax Sororitylife Missjess

    She was on Canidae All life stages… but had a allergic reaction to two of the canidaes i tried… so i switched her to seafood and grainfree and thus far no reaction i just bought the TOTW today to switch her over… price with the 30lbs TOTW will last longer and costs less than the 25lb nutrisource does… (FYI: my dog is a german shepherd doberman mix)

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    It depends on your dog. Mine are sensitive to products with white potatoes so I don’t feed (hardly) anything with that ingredient. My dogs are prone to yeast infections so I haven’t had to spend the money to treat constant infections by not feeding them potatoes. They haven’t had any potato dog foods for about 2 years now. No more body odor/stinky ear/stinky feet or nose rolls.

  • InkedMarie

    Whatever one works for your dog is the best

  • http://www.facebook.com/xmommyjessicax Sororitylife Missjess

    Ive got a question im switching to TOTW- Ocean from Nutrisource- Seafood Selects…. price wise Nutrisource is $47.99 + tax for 25lbs and TOTW is $44.99+ tax for 30lbs.. both are grain free… But which is better???

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Judy –

    The tough thing about boxers is they are right on that large breed/medium breed borderline. Large breed dogs are generally 60+ lbs. at maturity. When full grown some boxers will fall into this category, others will fall into the medium breed category. The concern with large breed puppies is that excess calcium intake has been linked to an increased likelihood of the puppy developing developmental orthopedic disease (hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, etc.). For this reason, puppies expected to be 60 pounds or more at maturity should eat a food with controlled calcium levels (no more than 3.5 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. of food). It certainly would not hurt to feed a small or medium breed puppy a food with these calcium levels, but it could potentially cause harm to feed a large or giant breed puppy high calcium levels. If you wanted to err on the side of caution, a boxer pup could certainly be fed a food with calcium levels appropriate for large breed puppies – it wouldn’t hurt anything. However, please be aware, many foods labeled “Large Breed Puppy” are not appropriate for large breed puppies. To determine, with certainty, whether or not a food is appropriate it’s always necessary to contact to the company directly to obtain the average calcium level (the bag/website generally only states minimum) and calculate the calcium levels on a grams per 1,000 kcal. basis. I can tell you off the top of my head that none of the Taste of the Wild formulas are appropriate for large breed puppies. To be honest though, at this point with your puppy already being 6 months old calcium levels probably wouldn’t make a big difference regardless. Calcium intake is most critical during the rapid growth phase between 8 weeks and 6 months

  • Judy

    I have a Boxer pup 6 months old and I put him on grain free all age lamb. Now they are telling me that he should be on large breed. Whats the answer on this?

  • http://www.facebook.com/JF16Cowgirl Jayme Foreman Fields

    I have a 2 1/2 year old Black and Tan Coonhound that has been on this food since you got her as a 6 week old puppy. With in the last week she started having head tremors. We have taken her to the vet everyday this week with the cost of about $300.00 with NO answers. So we are not searching for answers to see if it maybe the dog food. Does any of your dogs do this????? HELP PLEASE

  • InkedMarie

    I’m not trying to be sarcastic but do you know how many kinds of dog food there is? Do you know how many varieties of each there are? There isn’t enough time in a day to rank each variety of each food.

  • DD

    how did it go? do you still feed your dogs this brand? I am switching as well…but have not decided fully…so any help is appreciated! Thank you!!!

  • DD

    Also, I will be calling TOTW to check on a few things…fish used, egg products and from where, and a number of other things…to clarify myself since it is not specified, as you mentioned. I just look at the estimated dry matter nutrient content and see exactly the SAME numbers with both. I wish if it were 5 stars, that it get the SAME recognition, that’s all. In addition, I personally called TOTW, and asked what they are doing differently, if anything, to ensure me that they will not have another voluntary recall…and I was happy to hear that they stated they now have independent testers for EACH batch…BEFORE they package and send…which gave me a little more insight and hope.

  • DD

    I am curious why TOTW Wetland shows 5 stars, but is not enthusiastically recommended? I think this lumping of ALL TOTW gets confusing for dog parents, as myself. I am comparing this to Dr. Tim’s Grain Free…BOTH are ranked 5 stars, yet Dr. Tim’s seems to get more recognition…eventhough the dashboard used is the 5 star TOTW Wetlands. Can you clarify??

  • Megan

    I am currently feeding Acana Grasslands and Pacifica to my 2 pugs and my Border Collie/English Springer Spaniel (she’s about 45lbs) … Considering I get paid under $10/hour, as you may guess, spending $80 on a bag of dog food is seriously breaking the bank.

    My BC mix just turned 9 months and is eating 3 cups a day of acana. The pugs get 1/4 cup twice daily. To cut costs, I want to switch to taste of the wild… Can anyone help me figure out how much of ToTW they should be fed daily? Thank you!

  • Pattyvaughn

    Don’t let the door hit you…

  • http://www.facebook.com/emilie.handschyn Emilie Handschyn

    And here I thought this blog was about healthy dogs and healthy foods!! Bye.

  • http://www.facebook.com/emilie.handschyn Emilie Handschyn

    Don’t worry too much about screwing up, there is plenty of time to fix it. Those of us who have rescue dogs (I have 3) frequently don’t know anything about them, what they were fed, how they were treated etc. and we do our best to keep them healthy or fix their health when necessary. It is an adventure. So far I’ve been lucky with mine as have the rest of my family who all have rescues. Mine are “wash and wear”, they are not difficult eaters, they don’t shed, they don’t have any problems and I change their diet all the time. Experience proves that dogs, like people, appreciate variety in food. My dogs have tasted almond bear claws when I was not looking and the occasional chocolate also when I am not looking. They are very good at stealing from shopping bags left on the floor or on the car seat. My bad.

  • http://www.facebook.com/emilie.handschyn Emilie Handschyn

    Funny, but I understand your point:-)

  • Pattyvaughn

    I think I was under the impression that one of Blues products was made by Diamond because they had a recall in the same time frame once.

  • Cate

    Diamond never made Blue.

  • Cate

    Diamond does not make any Blue Buffalo foods.
    Blue is in the process of building a new plant (400,000 sq ft) in Joplin, Mo. They started construction the first week of Oct 2012. Blue picked Joplin because the people were so resilient after being devastated by the tornado’s.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Diamond definitely makes TOTW and I believe they used to make a variety of BB, but I think BB moved away from Diamond. Someone will correct me if I’m wrong about BB.

  • SLG

    I think Diamond makes both Blue Buffalo and TTOW

  • Joe

    I have been feeding my Rottweiler Taste of the Wild High Prarie Puppy Formula.

    Recently I have noticed a change on the size of the food (pellets). Since this change my dog has had a severe allergic reaction. Based on our vet visits which are very expensive – we have determined he has become allergic to his food.

    This is very unfortunate because I really liked this food. I thought it was great quality, and my dog really liked it.

    Is anyone else experiencing this issue?

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    It could be your dog developed an allergy to lamb, which is the main ingredient of Sierra Mountain.

    While I’m no fan of Diamond, as they’ve had numerous issues in the past, TOTW is a fine food.

    it’s a good idea to switch things up every once in a while, anyway. Wellness Simple Solutions foods have a turkey and duck recipe that you can mix in there with the salmon too.

  • sammyandeva

    FYI: I have been feeding TOTW Sierra Mountain for about a year with decent results. A month or so ago I bought a new bag and noticed that the kibbles were different shades of brown. I didn’t think anything of it. One of my dogs started chewing his paws uncontrollably (which we blamed on the salt on the sidewalks) and a couple weeks ago, he developed very bad diarrhea. We went to the vet and they ran test after test and found nothing. They however recommended not feeding TOTW because they have seen quite a few dogs have problems with this brand. I called TOTW and they said there was nothing wrong with the batch of food. Even with all of the medicine, he wasn’t getting better so I switched foods to Wellness Simple Salmon. Everything magically got better within a few days – no more chewing paws and very solid poop. I don’t know if the food caused the problems. Most reviews I have read said very good things about this food and it is reasonably priced. My dogs are soft coated wheaten terriers which are known to have sensitive stomachs.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Taste of the Wild has pretty small kibbles.

  • S Scott

    Changed from TOTW Pacific to Wetlands Fowl to put some weight on my show dog. After feeding for a time, I noticed red staining under the chin & on the neck. The culprit..tomato pomace in the Wetlands food. My other dog even had it down her leg where she had licked. It does not wash off!! So now I’m on the hunt again for high protein/weight gaining food!

  • Michelle

    I’m thinking of changing my yorkies food over to this brand Taste of wild wetlands, is anyone else feeding this brand to smaller dogs? how big are the kibbles? right now my girls are on Dick van pattents small bites and they really don’t like it very much.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Dog food companies can change where things are sourced from literally batch to batch. One week it’s from France the next it’s from China. And big business controls our laws, so they don’t have to tell you anything about where they source ingredients, so it would be impossible for Dr. Mike to get that info on every single food he reviews. Some things are up to you, the consumer, to find out for yourself.

  • http://www.facebook.com/WineSherpa Becky Tyner Sandoval

    I have to say that this system is a little off to me because HUGE points should be taken off since the company sources some of its products from China. If it’s cheaper to import some food source all the way from China, then it must be a pretty inferior product. I think they also lose points for not clearly stating that some products are sourced from China. At this point no one should be sourcing anything from China and if they do they should let the consumer know.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Wetlands or High Prairie.

  • andresmesa

    which one, is the best taste of the wild food, for a senior dog?

  • Pattyvaughn

    Brothers Complete Allergy Formula straightened my dog out in about 2 1/2 months, usually it takes a bit longer when they are showing signs of yeasty ears. They support gut health better than any food I’ve seen and gut health is paramount with food sensitivities and yeast overgrowth.

  • Dr J

    Yes…..actually the proper saying is “Don’t get your knickers in a twist”

  • losul

    lol, never heard that one before. Is it analogous to panties in a wad?

  • Dr J

    Uhh, knickers twisted……

  • Katies Mom

    :) No worries Pablo2213…to each their own!

  • Katies Mom

    Trying to find a food to switch my 7 yr old Golden to. She is showing signs of food sensitivity (icky ears, licking paws, etc.). I don’t ever remember dog food being this confusing when I was younger! Would love some suggestions of foods that work well for your dogs. Katie has a pretty sensitive tummy so I have to take that into consideration.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Why did you bother to come here?

  • Pablo2213

    Oh my god, do you people seriously have nothing better to do than sit on the internet bitching at each other about dog food? Jesus, go outside and take a deep breath.

  • Jessica Leanna Taft

    Taste of the Wild Sierra Mountain – Roasted Lamb or should i do the canidae all life stages lamb? currently my dog is switching from canidae all life stages regular formula to the all life stages lamb… any input from anyone who has tried either of these two???

  • Hound Dog Mom

    As far as kibble, I’d recommend going with Earborn or Victor (Victor may be a bit more difficult to find). For dehydrated I’d go with The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s or NRG Maxim. There are also pre-mixes available (Sojo’s, The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s, Dr. Harvey’s, Birkdale and Urban Wolf all make one) which are essentially dehydrated food without the meat. You can buy your own fresh meat at the grocery store and after you rehydrate the mix, add in the meat raw or cooked. The pre-mix has all the vitamins and minerals the dog needs so it’s not necessary to add any supplements. If you used a pre-mix you’d be able to take advantage of whatever meat is on manager’s special and you could utilize cheaper meats such as heart and gizzards. You could also gradually transition to raw – start with fully cooked meat for while and start cooking it less and less until, eventually, you’re just adding raw meat to the pre-mix. Also, with this method it would probably be cheaper than feeding a complete dehydrated food.

  • Sybilgrace

    Thanks so much for all the input! Out of the ones you suggested do you have any faves? I want to do raw, however 3 of my dogs are older and I am worried about switching them so late in life. 2 ofthemare with my

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Sybilgrace –

    The food Bryan suggest – Earthborn – is probably your best option for an alternative to Taste of the Wild. If a store near you carries it, most offer a frequent buyer’s program in which you get a free bag for every ten bags of food you buy. I did a cost per calorie analysis and if you can take advantage of a frequent buyer’s program, Earthborn is actually cheaper than Taste of the Wild. Some other reasonably priced comparable foods that aren’t manufactured by Diamond are: Victor, NutriSource Grain-Free, Hi-Tek Naturals Grain-Free, Authority Grain-Free (available at Petsmart only) and Source Grain-Free (available at Tractor Supply Only).

    Prior to switching to a homemade raw diet (which I have now been feeding my hounds for almost 2 years), I fed dehydrated for about 6 months. I used The Honest Kitchen – I’ve sampled all their varieties but Love, Zeal, Embark and Thrive were my go-to’s. I’ve also used NRG Maxim, Sojo’s and Addiction. The Honest Kitchen and NRG were my favorites. Another dehydrated food that looks great but I have not yet had the opportunity to try is Grandma Lucy’s. I think dehydrated foods are a lot healthier than kibble however they’re very expensive and actually cost more to feed than a homemade raw diet, for this reason I didn’t see any point in continuing to feed dehydrated. However dehydrated foods did serve as a good way to gradually transition my dogs into a minimally processed raw diet. The only issue I have with dehydrated foods (aside from the price) are that they cause the dogs to eliminate very frequently (like 4 times a day).

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    Earthborn Holistic Grain Free is around the same price, and it’s a better food.

  • Sybilgrace

    I’m currently feeding Taste of the Wild but with all the recalls and the more education I get on dog nutrition I dislike the food more and more. I would like to switch to raw or dehydrated in the future but right now I need to stick to kibble, we’re in between moving and when I get to my house I will look to switch. However in the mean time is there anything around the same price range that is any better than TOW or do I need to jump in price to get a better food? Or should I stay w/ TOW? Also has anyone done dehydrated dog food, either yourself or through a company like honest kitchen?

  • Dixie the lab

    I think where going to try it maybe i have like a 80 lb lab female lab and the guy at the pet store said this would be a great dog food for her and the food where feeding her is a 1 star food not good!

  • Jessica Leanna Taft

    I rescued a 2 1/2 year old GSD from the shelter and when we first got her the staff told us she was on blue wilderness… i got a small bag of that first to see if she even liked it.. she didn’t (she was skin and bones when we got her, you could see her rib cage) so i tried this taste of the wild because of its good reviews… it made her not shed as much but omg i cannot even explain to you how horrible the gas was that my little lady let out.. it was so bad we would open all the doors in the house and go outside!!! And she started vomiting daily….so i switched her to canidae all life stages… she has had very little gas now… and only occasionally make you leave the house gas… (two days ago that happened) so i cannot say for my GSD this is a 4.5 rated food… i would rate it like a 2.5 for her… did not do well at all… :(

  • m.ward1993

    You acted like you needed to prove to me that not everything in China is bad, and that the USA can have recalls too. I agree, I agreed all along, before you went off about it. And I dont know everything about Unleashed, I dont work there. I was just told by someone who goes there regularly, who also knows a lot about dog food, that they do not sell anything with Chinese ingredients. Maybe she was wrong. Thats fine. Lets talk about TOTW, instead of arguing over who is right or wrong. I think TOTW is a great food but it makes me nervous knowing its a Diamond product.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Dream on.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    I take that back… I do remember you.

    I don’t feel like I need to defend anything. Not that I’m always right, but I feel confident enough in my knowledge of dog and cat nutrition that I don’t have to defend myself. If somebody disagrees that’s fine. It’s the people that disagree and prove me wrong that matter.

    And I’m not sure how I was defensive here. You said that store does not have anything made in China, I said I don’t believe it. How is that defensive? My store is in central Ohio, so it’s not like a store in Raleigh, NC is a threat.

  • m.ward1993

    Yeah, you have talked to me before on other pages. You have made harsh comments every time I post something. You pick apart everything anyone says, and you reacted to the “bull**** ” because you are a reactive…and defensive person

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    I’ve never talked to you, so I don’t know where you get this “stop being defensive all the time” thing. Besides, I wasn’t being defensive, I smelled bull**** and reacted to it, because this site is about educating people. Something I’m passionate about, particularly when it comes to to the health of animals.

  • m.ward1993

    ummm, ok I dont even live in Raleigh so chill out. I Dont think that everything from China is bad either. It depends on the quality, more than the source. I was SIMPLY trying to answer someone else’s question since THEY were concerned about the sourcing of TOTW’s ingredients. Stop being so defensive all the time!

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    There’s no way they know where every ingredient in every food is sourced from. Heck, they seem to really like Canidae, and I HIGHLY doubt that food is 100% China free.

    Not to mention that not everything from China is bad. Ugh! If you’re going to boycott a country’s goods because of some rotten apples coming from it, then get rid of all your “Made in the USA” stuff too, because we’ve had plenty of foods made in this country recalled too. They carry Bravo, and Bravo just had a recall… boycott Unleashed!

    And they carry Tiki Dog and Cat, and I thought I heard some of their food is made in China (in good places, as it’s a great food, but still…).

  • m.ward1993

    In Raleigh NC there is a pet store called Unleashed. They only sell foods that are completely China free…and they sell TOTW. So who knows, maybe this particular brand is China free, but not other Diamond brands

  • doglover

    worse food ever they changed the formula and gave all the dogs diarrhea, called t and spoke to the their vet and she stated we certify the supplies yearly. i had 6 friends that use TOW and their dogs got the same diarrhea. All the same brand and(sierra) and different stores and the same results. I had been feeding it for the past 9 months and no problems , but the last batch was so bad. bloody stool loose watery. The food felt different and smelled different when i opened it.. ANY food made by DIAMOND is a bad thing,with all the recalls they have had lately. MY local TSC pulled it all from the shelves.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    yay!

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    I wanted to let you know about something that happened earlier today.

    A customer called looking for a Large Breed Puppy food, however we didn’t have any in stock. I looked at the Large Breed Adult food, to see if it was an ALS formula, and sure enough it was. So I ended up selling her the “Adult”/ALS food for her puppy.

    You see? I was listening to you, and I did understand you.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Both Puppies are 4 1/2 stars.

  • sportsnut

    Would the 4.5 stars apply to the puppy brand too or just the adult?

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    The recall was so long ago that, unless you go to a shady/poor retailer to get it, there shouldn’t be any issue in regards to it.

    However, Diamond has had so many issues in the past that many people have decided to switch anyway. They are slightly more, but Zignature and Merrick grain frees are a good alternative.

  • 2Dogslover

    Does anyone know if the Tatse of the Wild dry dog food that was the subject of a recall in 2012 is now safe for dogs to eat?

  • aimee

    The AAFCO nutrient profiles choices are maintenance or growth/reproduction. I’d think “reproduction” is “gestation/lactation” which is why a food formulated for growth is by default an ALS food just as you said.

    Where the quirk comes in is with feeding trials. A food can be a growth food without being an ALS food. Foods that pass feeding trials do not have to meet the nutrient profiles. This could be important if a breeder were to assume that a puppy food is appropriate for gestation and lactation.

    Here is an example from Innova:Animal feeding tests using AAFCO (Association of American Feed Control Officials) procedures substantiate that Innova Large Breed Puppy Food provides complete and balanced nutrition for growth.

    This food is not labeled for and likely wouldn’t support a dog through gestation/lactation due to its low calcium levels: .76% and AAFCO min is 1% for reproduction.

    This is why in my initial post I wrote warning factoid ahead : ). I don’t disagree with the main point that you were making. I was only pointing out that not all puppy foods are ALS.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Diamond makes ALOT of different brands of pet foods. The more they manufacturer, the larger the chances of having a recall unfortunatelly. Some folks will say that it is not a big deal as human foods are recalled frequently as well and their dogs are doing great on this product. And others have lost trust in that company and will no longer purchase their products as it has had many recalls. Right now (as of March 10) actually there are several Diamond made cat foods being recalled.

  • Frannie

    Dear Mike,
    I am about to adopt my 7th greyhound since 1993, and the kennel he’s in right now is feeding him Taste of the Wild. I ordered some to keep his tummy happy during the adjustment, but then learned that there was a recall on this food last summer – apparently a number of dogs had gotten very sick and even died. I want to be VERY sure that what I am feeding my new boy is perfectly, absolutely safe. You may not be able to address this here, but i thought I would run it by you. Thanks for the great information.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    On that note, yes I believe it’s possible for a food to be labeled as “growth” based on AAFCO nutrient standards yet not have passed gestation/lactation standards. However, there are no gestation/lactation nutrient profiles – gestation/lactation only exists with foods that are substantiated as adequate through feeding trials – so no food that has not undergone a feeding trial would be verified as being acceptable for gestation/lactation.

    So, in short, I think what you’re saying is that a food labeled as all life stages through nutrient profiles would satisfy the requirements for growth and maintenance, however it’s possible it may not satisfy the requirements for gestation/lactation. A food that meets all life stages based on feeding trials would be substantiated as appropriate for maintenance, growth and gestation/lactation. I agree with this and this is a good point to bring up. However, as you know I don’t put much stock in feeding trials and I do strongly feel a growth or all life stages formula would be adequate for lactation/gestation regardless of whether or not it has undergone feeding trials (jmo).

    The point I’ve been trying to make throughout the discussion, however, does not have to do with gestation or lactation and whether or not a food has passed gestation/lactation feeding trials is irrelevant to the point I’ve been trying to make clear. The point I’ve been trying to make is that an “all life stages food” and a “growth” food are held to the same nutrient standards and that a formula labeled for “growth” is as appropriate for an adult as a food labeled “all life stages” and that a food labeled as “growth” will not cause nutrient “excesses” in an adult dog. Based on either method for substantiating nutritional adequacy – AAFCO nutrient profiles or feeding trials – a food that is labeled as “all life stages” meets the “growth” requirements which is what I’ve been trying to clarify.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    According to all the sources the food needs to pass bothgestation and lactation and growth trials back to back. There’s no information stating only passing a growth trial can allow a food to be labeled as all life stages (at least that I found). Here is an article from Whole Dog Journal that states it a bit more clearly:

    “A food intended for “all life stages” needs to pass the gestation/lactation trial (about 13 weeks) followed by the growth trial, back to back.”

    http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_6/features/Pet-Food-Company-Research_20546-1.html

  • aimee

    Hi HDM

    I understand that if a food completes both a gestation/ lactation and a growth study it is ALS( option 4).

    But if a manufacturer chooses only to do a growth feeding trial and does not do a gestation/lactation trial (They are 2 separate trials which can be combined if the manufacturer wants to but say the manufacturer only wants to do growth) than the food can only be labeled for growth(option 2) not ALS. At least this is how I see it.

    Or if a company only does a gestation/lactation study and not a growth study then it would be labeled as gestation/lactation (option 1) not ALS

    If a company does a growth trial and a maintenance trial than it would be labeled for growth and maintenance(combination option 2 and 3… the “or more of the following”)

    Otherwise instead of the claim being for “one or more of the following” which is a mix and match deal depending on which of the three trials were run there would only be 2 options as there are with nutrient profiling. This is how I’m interpreting the feeding trial adequacy claims.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi losul –

    You apparently still haven’t grasped the concept of the nutrient profile I attempted to explain to you. The maximum allowances are the same for both “growth” formulas and “maintenance” formulas. The only thing that differs between the two nutrient profiles is the minimum allowances for certain vitamins, minerals and other nutrients. Thus, a puppy formula is no more likely to result in an “excess” of nutrients than an “adult” formula. To simplify – feeding a formula labeled for “maintenance” would be adequate for an adult but could potentially result in deficiencies in a puppy. Feeding a puppy food to an adult – would by default – satisfy all minimum nutrient requirements for maintenance without exceeding the safe upper levels. It’s really not that difficult to understand when you give it some thought. :)

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Okay, I didn’t have to do too much digging. A food that makes an “all life stages” claim based on the feeding trial method must complete both a successful gestation lactation feeding trial AND a successful growth feeding trial.

    This is an excerpt from “Small Animal Clinical Nutrition” (pp.155):

    “Feeding tests can result in a nutritional adequacy claim for one or more of the following: 1) gestation lactation; 2) growth; 3) maintenance and 4) complete for all life stages. AAFCO has published minimum testing protocols for adult maintenance, growth and gestation/lactation. A food that successfully completes a sequential growth and gestation/lactation trial can make a claim for all life stages.”

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I’m not positive, but according to the information I found on that site it sounds like in order to claim all life stages the food must go through both a lactation/gestation trial and a growth trial. Not sure I’d put too much stake in any info from Abady as they also claim their food cures hip dysplasia – lol. I’ll try to do some more digging though.

  • Dog brown in sf

    As an owner of a white German shedder, I mean shepherd, I can say that Taste of the Wild High Prarie dry with a spoonful of the wet really helps with his coat. He’s also got a super sensitive stomach, ToW really minimizes the “water gun” the sidewalk stain (for those of you city folk)

  • aimee

    HDM,

    Do you know if a manufacturer can request a growth study without also requesting a gestation lactation study?

    The reason I started thinking about this was because of this AAFCO statement:

    “Animal feeding tests using the AAFCO procedures substantiate that the Abady State of the Art Formula for Growing Puppies of the Larger Breed provides complete and balanced nutrition for growth”

    vs this statement on a different food by the same company:

    “Animal feeding tests using the AAFCO procedures substantiate that the Abady Formula for Maintenance and Stress provides complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages”

    I don’t see any problems with feeding a food labeled “Puppy” to a healthy adult dog.

  • LabsRawesome

    Lol, cya later.

  • losul

    Taking your word for it on the calories, how much protein, fat, calcium, phosphorus, sodium, chloride,magnesium, potassium, Iron, copper, manganese, Zinc. and vitamins do these contain vs their puppy food?

    She said, just what I said, she said. To tell you more of the truth, it no longer really matters to me if you believe it or not.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Thanks for the “warning” :)

    I see what you’re saying, however I’ve already looked into this and this is what I found (this information was already posted but I’m sure you’d never be able to find it in this mess lol). This is from an organization that conducts AAFCO feeding trials:

    Life Stages Protocols

    “Gestation/Lactation, Growth, and Maintenance feeding trials involve feeding a diet to a group of animals for a specified time period. Clinical analysis of blood parameters as well as food consumption and body weights are monitored throughout the feeding trials. Reproductive performance and puppy development are closely monitored. Veterinary assessment of all animals is a critical component of each study. An “All Life Stages” claim can be made by successfully completing a Gestation/Lactation feeding trial, followed by the successful completion of a Growth test using puppies weaned from the test diet.

    http://www.srfarms.com/www/node/10

    Also, I would like your input on this as (while I don’t always agree with you) I respect your opinions – do you believe nutritional “harm” (over-nutrition or deficiencies) could be caused to an adult dog by feeding a food labeled for “puppies”?

  • Richard G Morrison

    Here’s the thing folks. There are a good number of you here well informed on the subject of canine nutrition, with knowledge certainly superior to mine, and I’ve found much of the information offered here useful. Having said that, this is at the same time one of the the sulkiest, snarkiest, most ironic, sarcastic, hostile, ego-driven group of trolls I have ever experienced in any forum, no matter how poorly moderated. I don’t usually like to hit and run, but I’m making an exception here; the unpleasantness outweighs the useful, and I’m out of here. I’m sure there’ll be reactions in kind to this, but I’ll no longer be an audience to them. To those of you innocent of my accusations, by all means have a nice day. What sort of day the rest of you have is no concern of mine.

  • aimee

    HI HDM,

    Warning Factoid Ahead : ) Theoretically I’m not sure that it is always true that all puppy foods are ALS. There are three AAFCO feeding trials protocols: maintenance, growth and gestation/lactation.

    If a company uses feeding trials vs the nutrient tables to meet AAFCO I’d think it is possible to be a puppy food without haven’t gone through the gestation /lactation protocols and therefore wouldn’t be all life stages.

  • losul

    Labs, yes I could concede that’s a possibility for some people maybe, if the dog and master can get along with feeding even less than the other formulas. It’s not at all something I would want to do to try to save a couple of bucks, or if it even saves anything at all-again I don’t know the prices .Aren’t the other formulas already plenty concentrated enough?

    I have to wonder if many of the people reporting problems with with regular Orijen formulas are those that already have trouble limiting the amount fed.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    If you answered the question, then why did I have to keep asking?

    And if you did answer the question, and I missed it, then why bother going over it again and again? Do you enjoy creating stress for yourself? Are you bored and feel the need to keep going after you’ve said you’re done a few times already?

    You clearly don’t need to defend your honor around here.

  • losul

    yes, i knew about those, sometimes they work and sometimes they don’t for me. But what i was talking about was right here in the threads. Like on your reply to me, I can click on my name and see exactly what post you were referring to. I didn’t even realize that until an hour ago. doh.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    For the record, I deleted this comment because it didn’t add anything to the conversation, so people that may be reading along, or will in the future, would have their time wasted with it.

    On top of that I replied without really thinking about the post I was replying to. It was silly.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I didn’t need anyone to explain the question to me because I answered it several times – imo, the differences are for marketing purposes. I don’t know why you keep saying I didn’t answer the question.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    LOL. When you said “a part of the country that has winters” it sounded like you meant an area other than your own. And I was jealous.

    Although it touched 70 yesterday, and we’ll be in the 50s the rest of the week, so I’m happy. Well, except that it’s rained all day long. Hopefully it’s nicer on my day off tomorrow.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    It’s not working for me. Who knows why, but I guess it’s on my side. I mean, when I click the time of the post under Recent Comments, it used to bring me right to that post. Now it just takes me to the beginning of the comments.

    Talk about a pain, especially in this huge conversation.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    Champions intentions were EXACTLY what I was asking about the entire time. And if their intentions were not nefarious in any way, then why the differences in the formulas?

    Not “is there a difference between an ALS and Puppy food?” That information came in handy, but it didn’t answer my big question. The question that Shawna came to understand and talk to me about. Hell, she even tried to explain it to you but I guess her explanation didn’t get over either.

    Oh well. I’m done with it.

  • Shawna

    LOL!! Well said!!!!!
    I suppose we all better get back on topic before we get called out for that!!

  • losul

    yes EM as in email.

    Not stupidity at all. Stupid is just discovering that i could click on the name of the person being replied to and bring up the actual post being applied to. hehe.

    but,

    I.’ve heard it said that some of the greatest minds have some major quirks, lol.

  • Shawna

    LOL :) I’m in Nebraska Bryan!! Not much, if any, better here. I have a friend in Southern California that is complaining about the 50ish degree nights.. Awww bite me!! :) When it’s 50 degrees here you see people golfing and wearing shorts.. Hee hee — true though….

  • Shawna

    :-) I’m sure intentions are mistaken by all at some point or another. Myself being no exception. Please know I was in NO WAY referring to you at all today in any one of my comments prior to receiving your first comment.

    Okay, here’s where my stupidity shines through. What is EM? — email??

    PS, I’m sure it is quite evident to most that I like a good argument. But only if I feel they are productive (in my opinion at least).. :)

    Confession — I obviously misunderstood Bryan’s comment as he replied that he hadn’t really asked anyone. It appeared to me as a question followed by a statement (or answer) but I was wrong.. Ughhh

    Truce!!!!

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I’m over this conversation. You clearly don’t understand the topic and hand no matter how many times it’s explain to you I don’t think you’re going to get it. But I will say had no intentions of coming across as rude, nor did I originally have any intentions of coming across as rude. I sincerely apologize for that. However I got very irritated at the continuous snarky replies from yourself and losul as I was attempting to explain the subject of all life stages because I genuinely wanted you both to understand. I was trying to help the both of you understand something very important when interpreting pet food labels and getting the highest quality (highest protein) product for the money. In my attempt to be helpful I got rude responses and you continued to change the subject until you somehow turned it around from me saying “If I were feeding Blue Buffalo Life Protection to an adult dog I would feed the puppy formula because it has higher protein,” to interrogating me about what Champion’s motives are for selling a puppy formula and an adult formula. I agree that there was too much rudeness on both ends so this is my last post on the matter.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    You know what… I’m sorry if I was rude or insulted you in any way. I don’t remember doing so, but a lot has been said so I can’t be sure. After all, I can be a jerk sometimes.

    But could you please tone it down a bit? You may not mean it, but you’re coming off as very rude. A lot has been said in the past 24 hours, so my head is spinning. Not to mention that I’m solely responsible with putting away or shipments, and the two we got today are not small so I’ve been really busy. So how about cutting me a bit of slack here?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    “…it’s fine as long as it’s an ALS puppy food.”

    For the millionth time – ALL puppy foods are ALS.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    I live in Ohio! Winter is 7 months long! Stop rubbing it in!

  • losul

    I don’t know Shawna, but i don’t like arguing, whatever you may think. I’m all for ending it. Had no intention of getting back involved today.

    Sometimes, it’s easy to take the comments out of context with this disqus format. As in hard to tell who’s replying to what.

    Maybe somehow I took your intentions wrong, as I’m sure you sometimes do with mine.

    So enough said here for me. Maybe I will EM you sometime.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi Losul –

    If that is indeed what the Champion rep told you then they would be implying that the Regional REed and 6 Fish formulas shouldn’t be fed to an adult dog either as they contain the same amount of calories as the puppy formula (480 kcal/cup). For some reason I don’t believe that Orijen would imply that a food with 480 kcal. per cup shouldn’t be fed to an adult dog for risk of making the dog overweight and therefore rule out their Regional Red and 6 Fish formulas for the feeding of adult dogs. Also – the rep I spoke to did not tell me this. The rep I spoke to told me all formulas are appropriate for all ages of just, just adjust portion sizes accordingly when switching between higher calorie and lower calorie formulas.

  • Shawna

    For what it’s worth, I think that is an excellent plan Bryan!!

    Because the new formulations of Orijen are both 38% protein I don’t think there’s a huge amount of benefit to feeding an adult dog the puppy formula UNLESS they are extremely active and need the extra calories or they have really high metabolisms and have a hard time keeping weight on. Like maybe an “outside” dog in a part of the country that has winters.

  • Shawna

    This is becoming stranger and stranger…. In all honesty, I took the comment to mean that today he asked someone (and I actually thought he meant in another forum/site as I initially misread it).

    Yes, there was only the 5 of us in that conversation but the only comment you contributed, to me at least, after I got on was to say “who the heck is arguing that point? Not Bryan or myself. So Origen Adult Dog (or ALS as you want to call it) can be called a puppy food, who’s disagreeing on that?”
    So WHY would I think it was you who told Bryan that (at least until you implicated yourself)?
    This conversation is going nowhere fast. Hopefully we are done.?!?

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    That was one part of his reply that didn’t make sense to me (the one where I responded “THANK YOU”). The reason I responded like that was the rep saying that other parts of the food were different for a growing puppy, as opposed to a healthy adult.

    I’m going to take some time to soak in all this information and decide the best course of action for me when servicing my customers. I have a lot of foods to choose from, and there are many more I can bring up while helping people here, without going with a puppy food. So for the time being that’s what I’m going to do.

    BUT! If somebody were to ask about feeding an adult dog a puppy food, and the dog is doing just fine, then I’ll tell them it’s fine as long as it’s an ALS puppy food such as Orijen.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    Nobody told me that, it was a guess as to why they had Adult, Puppy, and Senior along with the Regional Red and 6 Fish.

    HDM had pointed out earlier that it all was ALS, but in the huge mass of posts I had forgotten that. I think she actually said it yesterday, and after sleeping and picking up the topic the next day it slipped my mind.

  • losul

    He didn’t ask me and I didn’t tell him that. I took it as he just asked, and then that was his additional comment. If someone answered in that way, I don’t know.

    But I do believe he was referring to the most heavily trafficked site yesterday- the Blue buffalo life protection thread. I believe their were only 5 of us in that conversation. You, HDM, Patti, Bryan and I.

    What thread did you think Bryan was referring to?

    Y

  • Shawna

    Losul I am seriously confused now??
    Bryan said “I asked on another thread, but is their “Adult” an ALS formula? Same with their “Puppy”? Maybe their “Regional Red” and “6 Fish” are ALS, but those previous two aren’t.”
    “But those previous two aren’t.” IF you are the person that told Bryan this, you are wrong as the Puppy and Adult foods ARE ALS. So, were you the person to tell Bryan this or not? If not, what are you arguing about?

  • losul

    that post I meant put here.

    Oh sheez

    I’m quickly growing tired of the games.

    I’m not wrong, I never said anything different

  • losul

    Oh sheez

    I’m quickly growing tired of the games.

    I’m not wrong, I never said anything different.

  • LabsRawesome

    losul, calm down Bro. I’m not trying to do anything to you. I never said that I doubted the Lady said that. I believe she did say it. But if someone were feeding the puppy food to an adult dog, it seems to me that they could save money by actually feeding less, since the puppy food is higher in calories.

  • Shawna

    I was referring to the people (or person I guess) he asked the question of obviously.

    Which thread is it that Bryan asked you if the Puppy and Adult foods were ALS? I missed it but would now like to read it.. By the way, you are wrong. The Puppy and Adult foods ARE ALS foods.

  • losul

    I don’t know what the foods cost, and please don’t twist my words. I didn’t record the conversation by I wrote her first and last quotes down so they are verbatim. This is what she said;

    “I don’t know why they would tell you that, it has more calories in it and your dog could get overweight.”

    If you don’t believe go ahead and call.

    1 877 939 0006

  • losul

    No you aren’t adressing me directly. But if not me you were referring to as those people on the other thread, then who were you referring to?

    I never said anything about her divulging a name. And I never accused you of trying

  • Shawna

    OH MY GOSH!!!! I remember back to when I started DFA Labs!!! You have come a long way!!! Yay for you and your fur kids!!!!!

  • Shawna

    Losul I have no idea what you are talking about? I think you simply like to argue with me :) ..

    Bryan said he asked on another thread if the adult and puppy were ALS and was told no. I didn’t ask him whom he asked nor did I care.
    For that matter the Champion rep didn’t divulge your name. Nor did I ask.. I haven’t yet developed my mind reading skills but maybe some day..

    Yes, for your dog the puppy might not be the best option BUT if you read the answers HDM got you will see that for HER adult dogs the Champion rep said the puppy formula might be a better option. AND if you read my comment about it you will see I said the very same thing — my dogs would be better on the adult as they don’t need the higher calories while HDMs could benefit from the higher calories.

    I don’t ever recall even addressing a post/comment to you at all let alone about ALS/puppy? Bryan yes, you no. So what is it that you are arguing here?

  • LabsRawesome

    losul, that person at Champion makes no sense. Couldn’t you save money by feeding your adult dog LESS of the puppy food? Why would she automatically say the dog would get fat?

  • LabsRawesome

    Hi Bryan, I just got off the phone with Champion.. lol just kidding. But seriously though, I think the puppy, adult, and senior are all just marketing. People want to feel special, or maybe just think they are doing better for their dog by buying age specific foods. As long as the food is ALS I would feed it to any age dog. BTW I think Orijen is a great food, but I’m not in love with kibble. So I would never spend that kind of money, kibble really is not species appropriate. I feed a VERY small amount of it. :)

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    THANK YOU!!!

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    That’s funny. I remember saying numerous times that I didn’t care whether the food was “ALS” or for growth. I guess that was another “BryanV21″. Disqus has a lot of hacks going on lately.

  • losul

    Shawna, you really don’t need to refer to me as the “other people on the other thread”"

    At least the nice young lady at Champion referred to me as a gentleman.

    I was just going to let the whole thing go, but I’ll tell my version of the story now.

    I told her that some people told me I would be better off feeding my adult dog the Orijen puppy food, and if there was any reasoning behind that. She said; “I don’t know why they would tell you that, it has more calories in it and your dog could get overweight.” I made no mention of his activity level. I said more calories , more protein, and more fat right? She said yes more than he could use. I asked her if the mineral and vitamin profiles were different and she said yes there were some differences but didn’t expound on it. She closed the conversation with “there’s no advantages to using the puppy food for your dog.”

    I didn’t ask nor care about the ALS/puppy what AAFCO would technically allow them to call it.I never challenged that with anyone.

  • Shawna

    Honestly I was going to let you call as you then could ask the specific questions that would best suit the answers you were after. However, after you left the comment about the other group saying the Puppy and Adult formulas were not ALS foods I couldn’t help but call as that just didn’t seem right…. Here’s your opportunity to now correct them so they can give accurate answers the next time they are asked :) ..

  • Hound Dog Mom

    No Bryan – you were so caught up in the ALS vs. growth thing. I’ve explained to you over and over that they’re the same – I even posted a nutrient analysis showing a side by side comparison of both maintenance minimum and maximums versus growth/ALS minimums and maximums which PROVED that any vitamin or mineral that meets the requirements for growth will not result in a deficiency or excess in an adult dog and posted statements from the FDA stating in plain english they’re the same…really? That didn’t answer the question? In laymans terms: if a food meets the growth/als nutrient profile it is appropriate for an adult dog. But you – clearly – didn’t take the time to actually compare nutrient profiles or familiarize yourself with them or else this whole conversation would have ended long ago.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    No, I didn’t have a chance to call. Thank you. I didn’t want you or HDM to call for me, I thought you perhaps already knew that without anybody having to speak with somebody with the company.

    FYI, I was going to call later when I had a chance.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    The fact that I kept asking should make it clear that you weren’t answering my question. At that point you either need to read it again or ask me to clarify my question. Not repeat the same thing over and over again, as all that does is frustrate both you and myself. Maybe it’s having a teaching and coaching background that allows me to see this, and I shouldn’t expect it out of others as well.

    The rep answered the question… Basically, Orijen is calling it “Puppy” and “Adult” just to sell more food, particularly to those consumers that are looking for an age-specific food. It has nothing to do with differences in vitamin or mineral levels, outside of the fact that it has more protein, fat, and calories, which could lead to feeding less of the “Puppy” to a growing dog than an owner would with “Adult”.

    THAT was the answer I’ve been looking for the entire time. But you were, and still are, so caught up in the “ALS” and “growth” thing that you couldn’t see that.

  • Shawna

    Ha ha, we’re keeping their reps busy today!!! Happy Monday Champion :) …..

  • Shawna

    I agree with everything you are saying. I also get what is causing a hang up for Bryan.

    It is marketing but I don’t think it is intended to deceive anyone but rather to help those who aren’t as knowledgable about nutrients/balancing etc.. You want simple — here you go.. :)

    I did call them btw and it is exactly as you and I (and Patty) have been saying. She also said a gentleman had called before me asking the very same questions. She guessed maybe someone reading our posts? Or maybe Bryan had an opportunity to call?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Just to clear this up once and for all – I just got off the phone with Champion. The rep told me the only significant difference between the adult and puppy formulas are that the protein, fat and calorie levels are higher in the puppy formula. I asked if it would be okay to feed to my adult and senior dog and she said it would be perfectly fine to feed to any age dog I would just need to reduce portion sizes accordingly. She also added that the puppy formula would actually be beneficial to a highly active adult dog. This is what I’ve been saying all along. If you don’t believe me call Champion. The end.

  • Shawna

    Bryan,

    The people on the other thread were wrong :( . JUST got off the phone with Champion.. Spoke with a VERY nice young lady. Interestingly, she said she had just spoke with a gentleman on the phone asking similar questions to mine and that maybe it was someone reading our posts :) .. Unless you found the time to call them?? If not, here’s what she said —-

    The Adult and the Puppy formulas ARE technically “All Life Stage” foods. As in they meet AAFCO compliance for all life stages.
    I asked her what the benefit was to puppies by feeding the Puppy food — “higher fat calories”. Nothing at all was mentioned about nutrients added specific to puppies. Just that the higher fat (and in the old formula higher protein) made a denser food for puppies that use more energy as a whole.

    And the Adult food — lower fat calories. In the old formulation the puppy fat was 20 and the adult fat was 17. In the new formulas the puppy is 20 and the adult is 18. Adult dogs can eat more food (and therefore protein) since the food is less calory dense.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I know Melissa called them in regards to feeding the senior formula to an adult dog awhile back (the senior formula is als) and (if I remember correctly) they basically said what you’d expect – all of their formulas are suitable for any age but senior, adult, puppy have protein/fat levels more suitable for that particular life stage. Which (imo) is marketing and only marketing as there’s no reason an adult or senior dog couldn’t benefit from the higher protein levels in the puppy formula. In fact, I believe an adult or senior dog would benefit MORE from the higher protein levels in the puppy formula than in the adult or senior formulas. I understand the point Bryan is trying to make, however when examining foods I will always go for the highest protein formula with the best ingredients regardless of if the from of the bag says “puppy,” “adult,” “senior,” “large breed,” “small breed,” etc. All the “life stage”, size specific, breed specific nonsense is just marketing. There is NOTHING in a “puppy” (ALS) food that is not appropriate for an adult and – having an understanding of nutrient profiles – there is no nutrient that could be present in a balanced puppy/als formula that would cause an excess or deficiency in an adult dog. For someone to pick the “adult” formula when there is a “puppy” formula with more protein for the same price is just silly to me.

  • Whit

    WOW! Thank you so much!

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    Please to the following link, as it contains some great information on large breed puppy food. It’s part of the forum here at DFA…

    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    I asked on another thread, but is their “Adult” an ALS formula? Same with their “Puppy”? Maybe their “Regional Red” and “6 Fish” are ALS, but those previous two aren’t.

    I had the same issue with going to their website. If I have time later I’ll call and let you know.

  • Whit

    Hi! New here and just wondering about a 16 week old Mastiff/mix puppy. She has been on Iams from her rescuer when she was a baby. I gave her Nutro, 1 bag and dropped it. Didn’t like it and read some stuff. Then Wellness, 2nd bag and she has loose stool. Not runny, not firm. Vet tried to push ProPlan and I laughed at him. I want to try Fromm or TOTW. So which one do you think since she is a large breed puppy. She is around 40#’s right now. I also have a Cock-A-Poo that is so sensitive and throws up often. Even won’t eat. What should I try for her? Can’t quite pin down what makes her sick. We call it her “sour belly”. :(

  • Shawna

    I get what you are trying to say now in regards to Orijen.. I honestly don’t think the two separate formulations are “needed” but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a benefit to individual dogs.. Example, I might opt to feed my crew the Adult because I like adding in coconut or pumpkin seed oil while HDM might feed hers the Puppy because even with the oils she would add in they need the extra calories. However, at only a difference of 2% I don’t think it would make a huge impact either way.

    I tried to pull up Orijen’s website so I could look at the two ingredient panels and specific nutrient profiles but couldn’t? It keeps asking for login/password info and a different link didn’t work either???

    If you do call Orijen, let us all know what they say… My guess is they will say something like —- there is benefit from the different formulas but that puppies would do just fine on the Adult and adults would do just fine on the Puppy foods. Just a guess though???

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    Oh, I understand not knowing something and being frustrated by it. Which goes back to the whole puppy vs. adult food thing. I wish I could talk to an Orijen rep who can tell me why they make both if it’s not needed.

  • Shawna

    Morning Bryan,

    You may very well be right, I’m not sure? I’ve heard people say that their vets suggested foods like Orijen, or raw even, were “too high in protein for a normal dog” though???

    In regards to kidney disease — lower quality proteins make more nitrogenous waste for the kidneys to filter and some vets feel that these higher amounts requiring filtration stress healthy kidneys. However, if aimee’s collander example is correct and the kidneys passively filter without any effort than the amount of waste coming through shouldn’t stress them… It frustrates me not knowing the answer to this!!! :-)

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t this myth come from the fact that those against higher protein diets are looking at lower quality sources of protein?

    They are looking at foods whose protein is coming from sources like peas and corn, rather than protein coming from more ideal animal-based sources (meat, organs, etc).

  • Shawna

    You can’t be upset with yourself!! You did the research but the old myths about lowering protein are just too wide spread still… And dogs are suffering because of it :( You can help though by going back to those sites and posting the data from Dr. Larsen and all of Hound Dog Moms info. If you can only get 3 people to listen, those 3 will tell someone else and eventually this myth will be busted once and for all…
    Another myth — high protein does not cause kidney disease.. :)

  • Hound Dog Mom

    A lot of breeders seem to be under the assumption that lower protein foods “slow” growth and cause less incidence of developmental orthopedic disease – however there is no actual evidence supporting this theory and, in fact, all studies that have been done disprove the idea that high levels of protein contribute to developmental orthopedic disease. What does contribute to developmental orthopedic disease is excess calcium, excess calories (overfeeding), too much exercise during the rapid growth phase and – most importantly – poor genetics (always get a large/giant breed puppy from a breeder that has had OFA or PENN Hip tests done on the parents). I think that the idea of low protein foods supporting slow and sustained growth in large breed puppies stemmed from the fact that most lower protein foods are also lower in calories and tend to be (although not always) lower in calcium. Most (but not all – as you’ll see if you check out the list of recommended foods) higher protein foods tend to also have higher levels of calcium and a higher energy density. Breeders likely noticed that feeding foods with lower protein resulted in less incidence of developmental orthopedic disease than foods with higher protein levels so it was inadvertently assumed that it was due to protein levels, when in fact protein had nothing to do with it. Breeders that experienced high incidence of developmental orthopedic disease when feeding high protein foods were likely feeding high calcium formulas and not reducing portion sizes accordingly to account for the increased caloric density. I strongly feel a high protein food can and should be fed to all puppies (and adults and seniors for that matter), but while your dog is growing you will need to be aware of the calcium levels and control his portions so he stays lean.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi BeauysLady –

    I have three bloodhounds – a 7 year old senior, a 2 year old adult and an 8 month old puppy. They all eat a high protein homemade raw diet (45-55% protein). My pups eat the same thing as my adults for the most part, I just watch their calcium intake more closely for the first 6 months or so.

  • BeauysLady

    Gosh that really upsets me because I did months of research on large breed dog sites and newfoundland breeder websites. I wanted to feed my puppy the best way possible and now I feel like I’ve screwed up. Thank you though, I can now make a much better decision for the rest of his puppyhood.

  • Shawna

    The info on too much protein for large breed dogs is absolutely and totally incorrect. PLEASE listen to Hound Dog Mom on this!!

    By the way, many vets and breeders even get this wrong. However, here’s a site you can trust.

    “Jennifer Larsen DVM, MS
    Resident, Small Animal Clinical Nutrition Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital
    School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis

    For some reason, dietary protein level continues to be incriminated by some owners, breeders, and veterinarians, despite the lack of supportive evidence.

    In contrast to protein, excessive calories and inappropriate amounts of calcium have both been shown to negatively influence optimal skeletal development in puppies.”
    http://www.lgd.org/library/Optimal%20feeding%20of%20large%20breed%20puppies.pdf

  • BeauysLady

    Oh I had never heard that, thank you so much. May I ask what you feed your hound?

  • BeauysLady

    Oh no, I would never want to stunt his growth. I don’t want him to get growing pains and this far everything I have researched and everyone I have talked to on large dog breed forums, also people I have met in person, have cautioned me against too much protien while they are pups. Thank you for your advise.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi BeauysLady –

    High levels of protein do not contribute to growth issues in large breed puppies – excess calcium does. All of Taste of the Wild’s formulas are too high in calcium for large and giant breed puppies.If you check out the forum area there’s a whole topic area dedicated to large and giant breed puppy nutrition and a list of appropriate 4 and 5 star grain-free foods.

    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

  • Richard G Morrison

    Are we to understand that you want to limit his protein in order to stunt his growth? Seems curious. If he’s itchy and has other reactions to his food he may have an allergy to some ingredient. But all this, like your own speculations, mine, and those of the guy at the vet, are insufficiently informed. Take your dog in to a good veterinarian, preferably one well versed in immunology. .

  • BeauysLady

    Hello, I have been feeding my almost-five month old Newfoundland puppy the pacific stream for about 2.5 months now. My problem is that he goes to the bathroom like 5 times a day and is also rather itchy (doesn’t have fleas). And I think he has growing pains because his legs shake, so I’m afraid of putting him on something higher protein that may cause him to grow even faster.

    Also, I heard from a guy at my vet that dogs tummies are meant for only one kind of protein – i.e. only fish, only turkey, etc. So I have been nervous to switch things up on him. Anything to back that up?
    Any input would be appreciated, thank you!

  • beaglemom

    Doesn’t spell very well either.