Hill’s Prescription Diet R/D Canine (Dry)

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Rating: ★★☆☆☆

Hill’s Prescription Diet R/D Canine dry dog food receives the Advisor’s second-lowest tier rating of 2 stars.

The Hill’s Prescription Diet R/D Canine product line lists two dry dog foods.

Although each formulation appears to be designed for adult weight loss, we found no AAFCO nutritional adequacy statements for these dog foods on the Hill’s website.

The following is a list of recipes available at the time of this review.

  • Hill’s Prescription Diet R/D Canine Weight Loss Low Calorie
  • Hill’s Prescription Diet R/D Canine Weight Loss Low Calorie with Chicken

Hill’s Prescription Diet R/D Canine Weight Loss dry dog food was selected to represent both products for this review.

Hill's Prescription Diet R/D Canine Weight Loss

Dry Dog Food

Estimated Dry Matter Nutrient Content

Protein = 35% | Fat = 8% | Carbs = 49%

Ingredients: Whole grain corn, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, soybean mill run, powdered cellulose, soybean meal, chicken liver flavor, dried beet pulp, lactic acid, soybean oil, caramel color, dl-methionine, l-lysine, potassium chloride, vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, vitamins (l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), vitamin E supplement, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement), calcium carbonate, iodized salt, minerals (manganese sulfate, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), taurine, l-carnitine, preserved with mixed tocopherols & citric acid, phosphoric acid, beta-carotene, rosemary extract

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 13.1%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

Estimated Nutrient Content
MethodProteinFatCarbs
Guaranteed Analysis35%8%NA
Dry Matter Basis35%8%49%
Calorie Weighted Basis33%19%47%

The first ingredient in this dog food is corn. Corn is an inexpensive and controversial cereal grain of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

For this reason, we do not consider corn a preferred component in any dog food.

The next item is corn gluten meal. Gluten is the rubbery residue remaining once corn has had most of its starchy carbohydrate washed out of it.

Compared to meat, glutens are inferior grain-based proteins lower in some of the essential amino acids dogs need for life.

This inexpensive plant-based ingredient can significantly boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

The third item reports chicken by-product meal, a dry rendered product of slaughterhouse waste. It’s made from what’s left of a slaughtered chicken after all the prime cuts have been removed.

In a nutshell, chicken by-products are those unsavory leftovers usually considered “unfit for human consumption”.

In addition to organs (the nourishing part), this stuff can contain almost anything — feet, beaks, undeveloped eggs — anything except quality skeletal muscle (real meat).

On the brighter side, by-product meals are meat concentrates and contain nearly 300% more protein than fresh chicken.

In any case, although this item contains all the amino acids a dog needs, we consider chicken by-products an inexpensive, lower quality ingredient.

The fourth item lists soybean mill run. Mill run is a by-product, mostly the hulls of soybeans remaining after processing the beans into meal. This is nothing more than a cheap, low-quality filler more commonly found in cattle feeds.

The fifth ingredient is powdered cellulose, a non-digestible plant fiber usually made from the by-products of vegetable processing. Except for the usual benefits of fiber, powdered cellulose provides no nutritional value to a dog.

The sixth ingredient is soybean meal. Soybean meal is relatively useful by-product — what remains of soybeans after all the oil has been removed.

Although soybean meal contains 48% protein, this ingredient would be expected to have a lower biological value than meat.

And less costly plant-based products like this can notably boost the total protein reported on the label — a factor that must be considered when judging the actual meat content of this dog food.

After the chicken liver flavor, we find beet pulp. Beet pulp is a controversial ingredient, a high fiber by-product of sugar beet processing.

Some denounce beet pulp as an inexpensive filler while others cite its outstanding intestinal health and blood sugar benefits.

We only call your attention here to the controversy and believe the inclusion of beet pulp in reasonable amounts in most dog foods is entirely acceptable.

The ninth ingredient is lactic acid, a nutrient found naturally in many living organisms.

It’s difficult to say with certainty why lactic acid is present here except to presume it’s added to balance the pH of the recipe.

The tenth ingredient is soybean oil is red flagged here only due to its rumored (yet unlikely) link to canine food allergies.

However, since soybean oil is high in omega-6 fatty acids and contains no omega-3′s, it’s considered less nutritious than flaxseed oil or a named animal fat.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to have much of an effect on the overall rating of this product.

With three notable exceptions

First, we find no evidence of probiotics, friendly bacteria applied to the surface of the kibble after processing.

Next, caramel is a coloring agent made by caramelizing carbohydrates. It’s used by pet food manufacturers to impart a golden brown tint to a finished kibble.

Even though caramel is considered safe by the FDA, we’re always disappointed to find any added coloring in a pet food.

That’s because coloring is used to make the product more appealing to humans — not your dog. After all, do you really think your dog cares what color his kibble is?

Finally, the minerals here do not appear to be chelated. And that can make them more difficult to absorb. Non-chelated minerals are usually associated with lower quality dog foods.

Hill’s Prescription Diet R/D Canine Dry Dog Food
The Bottom Line

Because this is a prescription product, we are compelled to limit our judgment to the estimated meat content of the recipe as well as the apparent quality of its ingredients. And nothing else.

Our ratings have nothing to do with the accuracy of claims made by the manufacturer as to this product’s ability to effectively treat or cure a specific health condition.

So, to find out whether or not this dog food is appropriate for your particular pet, you must consult your veterinarian.

With that understanding…

Judging by its ingredients alone, Hill’s Prescription Diet R/D Canine appears to be a below-average dry dog food.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 35%, a fat level of 8% and an estimated carbohydrate content of 49%.

The two products feature an average protein content of 35% and an average fat level of 9%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate proportion of 49% for the overall product line.

And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 25%.

Above-average protein. Below-average fat. And near-average carbs when compared to a typical dry dog food.

Yet when you consider the protein-boosting effect of the corn-gluten meal and all the soy products, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing only a limited amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Hill’s Prescription Diet R/D Canine is a plant-based dry dog food using a limited amount of chicken by-product meal as its main source of animal protein, thus earning the brand 2 stars.

Not recommended.

Special Alert

Rice ingredients can sometimes contain arsenic. Until the US FDA establishes safe upper levels for arsenic content, pet owners may wish to limit the total amount of rice fed in a dog's daily diet.

A Final Word

The descriptions and analyses expressed in this and every article on this website represent the views and opinions of the author.

Although it's our goal to ensure all the information on this website is correct, we cannot guarantee its completeness or its accuracy; nor can we commit to ensuring all the material is kept up-to-date on a daily basis.

Each review is offered in good faith and has been designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food.

However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyze each product, please read our article, "The Problem with Dog Food Reviews".

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt, consult a qualified veterinary professional for help.

In closing, we do not accept money, gifts or samples from pet food companies in exchange for special consideration in the preparation of our reviews or ratings.

To learn how we support the cost of operating this website, please visit our public Disclosure and Disclaimer page.

Have an opinion about this dog food? Or maybe the review itself? Please know we welcome your comments.

Notes and Updates

01/02/2010 Original review
08/08/2010 Review updated
05/23/2012 Last Update

  • aimee

    “Politics” worms its way into everything doesn’t it : ) On the PDCAA scale soy and dairy are both 1 but with DIAAS looks like dairy will rate higher than soy. Hmm no wonder the soy industry doesn’t want to support it and dairy does LOL

  • Shawna

    Interestingly, the soy industry (in Europe) is fighting against this new method while the dairy industry is fighting for it… http://www.nutraingredients.com/Industry/Soy-industry-FAO-protein-findings-only-useful-in-malnourished-populations

  • Shawna

    LOL!! Thanks Losul :) .

  • aimee

    I think every method of protein evaluation will have its pros/cons. The PDCAA is being replaced by DIAAS: Digestible Indispensable Amino Acid Score (DIAAS).

    And in any of these methods I think we have to consider that is the highest score that can be expected as method of processing can change everything.

    Finally, by blending proteins, the resultant AA blend can result in a score far greater than either of the sources evaluated alone.

  • losul

    Woah, Shawna, you’re getting to be a force to be reckoned with, on the clinical research thing, ;)

  • JellyCat

    I can judge the quality of food by looking at ingredient list. If I see highly processed ingredients or potentially low quality ingredients, I know that this food is not good. Never mind biological availability.

  • Shawna

    I’ve read that there’s problems with the PDCAA method. However, it seems like the best we currently have, all things factored.

    I found the below interesting (granted this is in Rat—but I assume they better utilize plant based proteins?)

    “The Protein Digestibility–Corrected Amino Acid Score Method Overestimates Quality of Proteins Containing Antinutritional Factors and of Poorly Digestible Proteins Supplemented with Limiting Amino Acids in Rats” http://jn.nutrition.org/content/127/5/758.long

  • aimee

    I agree that protein from raw muscle sources is highly digestible and available. Once we start processing and using “meals” of variable composition it is anyone’s guess.

    The current standard of evaluating protein quality is the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score. Which takes into account the availability of the AA and the AA profile, rate limiting AA.

    The highest score is 1. Milk, soy protein and egg are all 1. Beef 0.9 , legumes 0.7… But again this measure is based on human requirements so likely different for a dog.

  • Shawna

    I do agree with you here.. It would seem to me that the most bioavailable protein for dogs would likely be venison, elk etc in its raw state. The overall BV of corn gluten meal, soybean meal, potato and pea protein etc is surely lower.

  • aimee

    I do see it a bit differently. Eggs were assigned a BV of 100, but really it is an arbitrary number isn’t it?

    The ideal AA ratios are species dependent. So while egg is 100% BV for growing a chicken it is likely a lower BV if growing a cat. ( for example egg’s ratio of arginine to histidine is about 2:1 but cat AA requirement ratio is over 3:1

    The only protein that would be 100% BV for that species is if those protein came from that species… but we frown upon cannibalism.

    So to honestly judge a diet I think you would need to know the bioavailability of each AA in the diet ( and by this I mean ability to get into the blood stream) and then compare it to the ideal AA profile for that animal.

    When looking at bioavilability of AA from protein in common dog food ingredients it seems they are wildly different even when coming from the same protein source. So say the digestibility of the protein in chicken meal is 80 %… the bioavailability of some of the AA may be 90%+ and others may be below 50% available.

    For me it is one of the reasons I say I can not judge the quality of a food from looking at an ingredient list.

    I see it as all as being wildly complicated when trying to evaluate a food pellet.

  • Shawna

    Yeah, amino acids that make up the amino acid pools are “functional to the system” just as are those that are immidiately utilized.

    Egg supposedly is 100% bioavailable. So all amino acids within the egg are utilized by the body (for organ repair, creating enzymes, energy etc). Soy has all the essential amino acids but has a rather low BV. What isn’t utilized becomes urea right? Also, what isn’t available for the body creates a deficiency that the body must find elsewhere (like from muscle).

    I really like the simplicity of this

    “The processes of assembling amino acids to make proteins, and of breaking down proteins into individual amino acids for the body’s use, are continuous ones. When we need more enzyme proteins, the body produces more enzyme proteins; when we need more cells, the body produces more proteins for cells. These different types of proteins are produced from amino acids as the need arises. Should the body become depleted of its reserve of any of the essential amino acids, it would not be able to produce the proteins that require those amino acids. If even one essential amino acid is missing, the body can not continue proper protein synthesis. This can lead to lack of vital proteins in the body, which can cause problems ranging from indigestion to depression to stunted growth.”

    Since amino acids are used in groups it surely is possible for certain foods (even if having all essential amino acids present) to not have adequate lysine to make Z protein or typrophan to make B protein etc when the need for Z and B protein arises.

    Look at a raw egg compared to cooked soybeans (both have all essential amino acids present). The raw egg has 256mg lysine and 86.5mg histidine per ounce per nutritiondata.com. Soybeans have 310mg of lysine and 126mg of histindine. If the amino acids in egg are truly 100% utilizable than soybeans are going to have an exess of both amino acids. The egg has 106mg of methionine while soybeans have 62.7 so it is deficient in utilizable methionine. Combining foods are going to give the same excesses and deficiencies. Maybe I’m looking at this too simplistically though?

  • aimee

    Shawna,

    I think we are defining bioavailability in the same way, though I said it more simplistically, but are understanding it differently.

    In regards to AA I’ve always interpreted it as the AA are available to be used by the body but not specifying as to how they will be used: incorporated into the body vs burned for energy.

    So I’d see “becomes functional to the system” as applying to being used for energy as energy is a needed commodity to a cell and I think you would not consider AA used for energy as “becomes functional to the system”

    In other words if a protein containing 100 AA was ingested and 100 AA were absorbed into the blood steam and 50 were incorporated into the body and 50 burned as energy I’d consider the bioavailability of the AA of that protein to be 100% as all 100 AA were functionally used. But I think you would consider the bioavailability to be 50 % as only 1/2 of the AA were incorporated into the body.

  • Shawna

    Aimee,

    “Digestibility and absorption of the nutrient” is a bit simplistic. Bioavailabity is how well the cells etc of the body use the nutrients once they have been digested and absorbed.

    “The degree to which an absorbed nutrient is available to the system” “Bioavailability is a post-absorption assessment of how much of a nutrient that has been absorbed becomes functional to the system” https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:oVkx-jfYWQAJ:www.tamu.edu/faculty/eharris/NUTR650-489/Lecture%252009%2520Bioavailability.ppt+definition+of+protein+bioavailability&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiSdJo4YoAb0OemvDyW-yB7LVExkQsyRMi7XbnG4V598M7Pa5_gRl5cNhAlMWUcj-pTPQQVELexWoE_S3VPwmaCWkYt2-5U5OLy-IiodkvZ0tk4emWDIYhUDj7aKc7fRfNZ81Kt&sig=AHIEtbQ5D-3UL89U-MKawAdlCnLjZ4fZZA

    “World English Dictionarybioavailability (ˌbaɪəʊəˌveɪləˈbɪlɪtɪ) — n Also called: systemic availability the extent to which a drug or other substance is taken up by a specific tissue or organ after administration; the proportion of the dose of a drug that reaches the systemic circulation intact after administration by a route other than intravenous” http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bioavailability

    Utilized on a systemic level.

    Yes, two lower bioavailable proteins can be combined to create a better amino acid profile (usually when discussing essential amino acids). However, it has to be done very carefully so as not to supply too many of one or two or three while attempting to supply all the essentials.

  • aimee

    I agree… I think it is more marketing than anything else. I don’t see that 3 % wet weight chicken will add that much to the diet.

  • aimee

    I don’t know why Hill’s labels it that way. You could call them.

    If I had to guess I’d say they chose to label it that way due to the high fiber content and low energy density. It may not be suitable over a lifetime of feeding if the dogs energy requirements increase after weight loss due to increased activity.

  • Pattyvaughn

    chicken by product meal in third position, down a couple more is chicken liver flavor, then “with chicken” lists chicken after that, too far down the list to make much difference. Marketing.

  • aimee

    Shawna,

    I’m not sure how you are using the term “bioavailability” I’ve always considered this to refer to the digestibility and absorption of the nutrient. It seems to me you are using this in the context of quality of the AA balance.

    While individual components of a diet may not have an ideal AA balance, when the total pool of AA available to the animal is considered the profile can be excellent.

  • Shawna

    Thanks aimee,

    Can you tell me why, if this food meets NRC and AAFCO requirements for macronutrients, it is for intermittent feeding only?

  • aimee

    Pattyvaughn,

    The chicken is way down the list…. Chicken Liver Flavor, Chicken, Dried Beet Pulp, vs ….chicken liver flavor, dried beet pulp.

  • Pattyvaughn

    The ingredients list read just like the one above.

  • aimee

    http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-canine-rd-canine-weight-loss-low-calorie-with-chicken-dry.html

    I think AAFCO the designation “with chicken” means the diet must have 3% or more chicken in it.

    Personally I think it is likely more of a marketing option vs a nutritional one.

  • aimee

    Hi Shawna,

    You wondered if there was enough fat in the diet, since you don’t like math I did the calculations for you.

    NRC minimal fat for adult dogs is 10 grams/1000 calories, recommended is 13 grams/1000 calories. NRC growth recommended level is 21.3 grams/1000.

    AAFCO min fat for maintenance is 14 grams/1000 and for growth 22.8 grams/1000

    Hill’s R/D has 27.6 grams/1000. Not only does it exceed both AAFCO and NRC for maintenance but it exceeds growth requirements as well.

    Since the fat level in the diet exceeds recommendations for growth I wouldn’t expect any problems with fat soluble vitamins.

    As I recall Hill’s does DEXA scans in addition to digestion studies. I’m sure effect of phytate and fiber has been accounted for.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Do you have a link for info about it?

  • Pattyvaughn

    We haven’t had the coyotes get into our trash yet, but cats go missing in our area all the time.

  • JellyCat

    I just saw a coyote running across my street with MacDonalds bag (it’s not a joke). Therefore, I ‘m assuming mac is safe and natural to feed?

    That coyote often feeds from local garbage because it is easier than hunting squirrels. But just like for people eating junk there is a price to pay for poor nutrition.

  • Shawna

    Great point!!!

  • Pattyvaughn

    Mice and rats.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Corn fields are notorious for rodents. Dogs, cats, coyotes, wolves, bobcats, and many other species are known for going there to hunt, not to eat the corn.

  • Shawna

    I had an afterthought. Corn fields are a GREAT place to hide. Are you sure the coyotes are there to eat the corn or could they really be there for shelter?

  • Shawna

    When circumstances warrant it than absolutely, nobody should condemn another. However it is important to understand that these prescription diets are not the only (or best) answer. Certified Nutritionist Monica Segal, and others, would make a custom design menu (likely cooked) for a dog like yours that is far more nutritious and healthful for a dog. There ARE options for those that can utilize them.
    Vet Dr. Karen Becker and Dr. Martin Goldstein would likely do the same custom diet (utilizing a program like Balance It to confirm completeness). As would, I’m guessing, veterinary naturopaths Dr. Kim Bloomer and Dr. Jeannie Thomason. Dr. Goldsteins brother (blanking on name) also a vet custom designs diets based on the exact nutrient requirements the dog needs based on a custom blood analysis.
    Prescription diets are for those vets that don’t have the knowledge to come up with other options.

  • Shawna

    I have heard that some species can be hunted in corn fields. However, I NEVER saw this. We lived in rural Colorado when I was growing up. When I walked out my front door and turned right it was about 100 feet to the neighbors corn field. If I turned left I went across our yard, across the barn area etc and then to my grandparents corn field. Our dogs didn’t dine on the corn and we didn’t hunt coyotes (no wolves in our area) by hanging out in the corn fields. Plus, corn has a short period of about two weeks when its ready for harvest. Canids may eat it during that time but they certainly aren’t getting a lot of it.
    Fermented fruit is HIGHLY digestible and FULL of nutrients from the probiotics causing it to ferment. The fermentation process breaks down the cellulose (bacteria produce cellulase) that allows it to be digested by the eater. But again, this is a very short period of time that the fruit becomes over-ripe and drops.
    On our farm we had a “truck patch” — a garden the size of a semi truck.. Never had a coyote problem with the garden either. :( — It was the chickens that we had to teach our Staffie not to eat — not the veggies and corn.

  • Shawna

    I tried to find it to look at the ingredient list but couldn’t find it.

  • Shawna

    I truly hope, and believe, that it really doesn’t all come down to genetic lottery. If it does than I am DOOMED to have breast cancer (mom’s side) and to likely die of lung cancer (dad’s side).

    I don’t believe that though. I believe that genetics gives us a predisposition to an illness but what we do with our lives determines whether we fall prey to that predisposed disease or not. Because I have a STRONG family history of breast cancer there are certain things that I absolutely won’t due (like mammograms) and will do to help prevent becoming a breast cancer statistic. If you are correct, it really doesn’t matter what I do though.. I don’t believe that.

    MANY vets feel that what we put in our dogs, food wise, has the greatest impact on their health outcome. Since our entire body is dependent on those nutrients I can’t see how this isn’t a MAJOR factor. Example, if we don’t have enough of the right kind of calcium in our blood (calcium bicarbonate) our body has to “rob” calcium from our bones in order to fight infections — this is why we get fevers (esp babies). If we don’t eat enough protein our body can not produce the “master antioxidant” of the body called glutathione adequately. If we don’t have adequate glutathione our liver can’t efficiently remove the toxins in our system. Having adequate probiotics in the colon and feeding them with the right prebiotics can lower BUN of a kidney dog to the point of stopping some symptoms. If we don’t have enough of the right kind of vitamin D it can affect phagocytosis (which protects us from infections). There are SO SO many more examples. I’m not sure how any vet could suggest that these and other nutritional aspects are not important or are non-existent?

    However there are, of course, extenuating factors. I live in the city and my dogs are exposed to far more toxins than someone in a rural area (car exhaust, neighbors lawn chemicals etc). This, of course, must be considered when looking at overall health.

    I do feel however that it is inappropriate to “condemn” others for feeding their dogs kibble that we consider “2nd class”. I also feel it is quite appropriate to give our opinion about why we think the food is 2nd class. I won’t call someone a bad pet parent for feeding that food though.

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    Post note: My dog, whose medical conditions mean he is prone to a constant feeling of hunger, rapid weight gain, and exercise intolerance (his body does not properly regulate his body temp – since he was a puppy, and no he does not have EIH – it’s just genetics – after thousands of dollars of testing)… and who contracted Lyme Disease while living in NY (after a tick bite in February, in sub-zero temperatures, and while on Front Line) – so he suffers from fatigue and joint pain now and then (even though he went through a treatment protocol)… does NOT get fat because we are lazy owners who do not walk our dog or feed him too much. I worked for a vet, my other 2 pets are not overweight, and I am aware that the protein source is important. But when it comes down to my dog dying because he can no longer walk because his weight puts too much strain on his joints (he’s already had one ACL surgery) – or eating food that has corn in it — what do you think I should choose? For the past 2 weeks, I’ve had him on a new food (not R/D), which is our usual routine (periodic switch to R/D to control his weight if it goes up too high) – that is high quality, that I researched thoroughly, and that is as low in kcal as possible while maintaining a healthy nutrition balance… and he has already put on weight. So it is BACK to the R/D (“with Chicken” version) — because I want my dog to be able to WALK so he can get at least SOME exercise, NOT blow his other knee, and possibly live longer. His kidney condition alone has already got him with one paw in the grave…. my goal is to keep him pain free and happy. I’m not trying to make him immortal. Please, people – understand that there ARE dogs out there who would be DEAD prematurely if were not for products like this (and there are many out there) that are designed to give immediate results. Unless and UNTIL my dog’s lab results show some kind of negative reaction to this food — I am an R/D fan. So far, after labs done every 6 months — there has not been ONE single indication that this food has been bad for him. Stop condemning people for using it or vets for prescribing it – and start realizing that it’s this – or die for some dogs. Thanks.

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    Go to any hunting sight, where they are discussing hunting coyotes or wolves – and you’ll see they have entire threads devoted to hunting for them in CORN FIELDS. Coyotes and Wolves (and foxes) will and DO eat corn. They also eat fermented fruit that has fallen on the ground and has not been collected (people are urged to gather this in order to keep coyotes away), as well as vegetables… especially tomatoes.

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    It is worth noting that this dog food is also available in a “With Chicken” version.

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    Remember too that this food comes in a CHICKEN version – that is often overlooked, and is not the one reviewed by this website. It’s Science Diet R/D WITH CHICKEN. That’s the one I use for my dog when he is on this food. :)

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    I agree with you Shawna, however, it really comes down to the genetics lottery … massive breeding that is wildly out of control in purebreeds, and the luck of the draw – as with human beings – determines our quality and length of life. Some of us will live to 100, some of us won’t make it past 65… it’s the sad truth. My grandmother, presently 97 years old, eats crap, lived an unhealthy life, is mean as can be (ha) – and is still kicking… while my other grandmother died at 45 before I could ever meet her due to a blood clot – and she was a vegetarian (unheard of back in the day). Anyway – At first, I disagreed with my vet – and we butted heads on this… But he would leave me with no reply when he’d say, “I have yet to euthanize a dog that lived beyond the standard that we can attribute to what it ate.” And demonstrates this by pointing to a dog’s photo on his client photo wall of a cattle dog that ate the RAW diet, and died at age 8 because of kidney disease, and another dog, age 17 (can’t remember the breed) that ate Ol Roy (I know – bleh). What can I say? I mean – he’s right – you know? So his office is void of ANY prescription or high end/fancy label foods… he says he won’t have his medical opinion bought out by a dog food company, even if it’s a chance to make extra money. He offers nutrition advice – and his assistants will gladly research food for their clients based on their dog’s situation (they’ve done it for me – and they are fabulous)… but in the end, dogs, sadly, don’t live as long as they deserve to… while mean-as-second-skimmings humans (like grandma) seem to just keep on going. Such is life. Like you, I prefer to feed my dog the best quality food I can afford. But we cannot condemn others for feeding their dogs kibble that we would consider “2nd class”…. at least their dogs are EATING… there are too many dogs that aren’t even that lucky. :(

  • Pattyvaughn

    My friends cat just died at 21 years of age. She actually ate QUALITY food.

  • Pattyvaughn

    There are many OTC foods that are sufficiently low in calories and appropriately weighted with QUALITY protein, just as there are many OTC foods that have appropriate amounts of quality fiber with their quality proteins. No one has to resort to a low quality food to lose weight.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Seriously? How can you compare the life expectancy of a feral cat to a domesticated cat and suggest that processed commercial food is the reason domestic cats live longer? There are so many other factors at play. Feral cats are often hit by cars or killed by wild animals. Feral cats frequently fight with other cats are most have infected cuts. Feral cats are outdoors and forced to face the elements – which, depending on where the cat is located, can include extremely long cold winters with lack of reliable food supply or extremely hot summers (dehydration). Feral cats are plagued with parasites like fleas, ticks and intestinal worms. Feral cats also receive no medical care. Do a lifetime study on a group of domestic cats fed a veterinary recommended commercial food and a group of cats fed a balanced species-appropriate diet then we can talk.

  • Shawna

    Hi Karslinky,

    The protein in R/D is from corn, soy and chicken by-product meal. The digestibility of these proteins are quite high but the bioavailability of these are not as high as protein from muscle meats and egg.

    I have to wonder if fat soluble vitamins make it to the cells of the body on such a low fat diet too? It’s also likely that certain minerals will be bound up in the phytates in the soy and corn and not available for digestion either. As well as those nutrients bound up in the fiber.

    Additionally, many (including human doctors) have found that calorie counting is not necessary when eating appropriate foods. My 29 pound foster Papillon lost 15 pounds eating a rotation of kibbles including Orijen, Nature’s Variety, Merrick Before Grain, Acana etc with canned and raw toppers. She wasn’t exercised either as my vet felt she would have a heart attack. I posted before and after pictures of her on the weight loss thread (she still had about 2 pounds to go in the after picture). http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-feeding-tips/dog-lose-weight/#comment-390244318

  • LabsRawesome

    Whatever. Think what you want. I’m not going to argue with you. Do you
    realize you are commenting on a post from a year ago? You obviously
    have too much time on your hands, to keep going back thru all these old
    posts, and reply to them. Something someone with an agenda, or a JOB
    with Hill’s would do…… Btw how much is Hill’s paying you?

  • Karslinky

    So sorry you feel that way.

  • Karslinky

    If you have learned how to carefully feed your dog (measured amounts, limit treats) AND exercise your dog, then it is indicated to switch to a low-calorie food (if you dog is prone to weight gain, which it is just because it is a beagle!). Feed for ‘body condition score’.

  • Karslinky

    Wild/feral cats also don’t live to be 10-15 years of age, which is the new average for our feline friends. Must be all that good food.

  • Karslinky

    Many ‘premium’ dog foods are such high calorie per cup that to reduce it to a level to accommodate a dog with low metabolism or limited exercise would be to also cut daily protein and nutrition. Not many OTC foods are sufficiently low in calorie while being appropriately weighted with protein, such as r/d.

  • Shawna

    Sorry, I had an afterthought on colon cancer.

    Some studies, like the one reported below on the cancer.gov website, are showing that high fiber intake had no effect on the reoccurance of colon cancer.

    “In a multicenter randomized controlled trial (RCT), a diet low in fat (20% of total calories) and high in fiber, fruits, and vegetables did not reduce the risk of recurrence of colorectal adenomas.[106]” http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/prevention/colorectal/HealthProfessional/page3#Section_1024

    There is proof that “fermentable” fiber can prevent colon cancer by acidifying the colon. Fermentable fibers are highest in foods like garlic, onions, jeruselem artichoke, acacia fiber (from the arabica tree), burdock root is very high etc. These fibers are eaten by the good bacteria in the colon (pending there are any) and the bacteria produce lactic acid from their meal. The bacteria also dine on “resistant starch” (slightly under ripe bananas, cold potatoes etc) and produce butyric acid. It is these acids that prevent cancer. That is likely why fiber, in and of itself, has had mixed results.

  • Shawna

    Hi K,

    I’m so sorry you are having to go through all this with your pup!!! My heart goes out to you.

    I have to disagree with your vet though. Food, nutrition, can not only prevent disease but it can cause disease. Example, kibble in and of itself can be carcinogenic from the high
    heating of the carbs and protein. Dr. Demian Dressler is owner of the dog cancer blog and discusses how kibble can cause cancer in his article titled “Dog Food: Is there a Cancer Risk”
    http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-food-is-there-a-cancer-risk/

    Human oncologist Dr. William Li has a video on Ted TV titled “Can we eat to starve cancer” where he discusses how certain foods actually can cure cancer. Some of the same foods can actually prevent cancer by initiating a body process called apoptosis. http://blog.ted.com/2010/05/17/can_we_eat_to_s/

    University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine discovered that probiotics (which are found in a natural diet and some higher end kibbles) actually help the immune system by “priming” neutrophil white blood cells. Science Daily reports on it in an article titled Good Bacteria Keep Immune System Primed to Fight Future
    Infections” http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100127095945.htm
    Neutrophils are the main part of the immune system that fight the bacteria that causes lyme. “Neutrophils are the immune system components which would aid elimination of the bacteria from the skin; thus, the spirochaetes continue to survive and thrive.” http://lymediseaseguide.org/ Not all infected with the bacteria actually develop lyme disease. My cousin had a SERIOUS case of lyme — she was debilitated by it. However her younger brother, mother and father all tested positive but never have become ill from it – at least yet.

    Proteinuria, which is excess protein in the urine, is actually the one time, in every stage of kidney disease, that you DO want to lower protein in the diet. “How Does Proteinuria Cause Progressive Renal Damage?”
    http://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/17/11/2974.full

    I hope you can open the below document as it is all about glomerulonephritis and why it is important to feed a lower, buy high quality protein.
    Proteinuria and Diseases of the
    Glomerulus
    http://www.vetsites.vin.com/Kidney/GLOMDZ.doc

    Even Hills suggests lowering protein when proteinuria is present.

    “Dogs had less proteinuria when fed the lower protein diet…

    Proteinuric dogs constitute a particularly important subset of dogs with stages 1 and 2 CKD in that they may be at increased risk for progression of their kidney disease.
    Proteinuria has been found to be associated with an increased risk of uraemic crisis and renal mortality in dogs with stages 3 and 4
    CKD (23). In this study, the risk of death associated with CKD increased by 60%
    for each unit of urine protein-tocreatinine ratio above 1.0. ….therapy directed at limiting proteinuria appears to have renoprotective benefits in proteinuric humans with CKD (27, 28). The recommendation to use diet therapy in proteinuric dogs is evidence grade 3 because the association between reducing
    proteinuria and improved outcome is extrapolated from human and rodent
    studies.” http://www.hillsvet.com/pdf/confPro_TheRoleOfNutritionalManagementInDogsWithChronicKidneyDisease_en.pdf

  • Pattyvaughn

    Feeding less of a good food makes more sense than feeding a high fiber food that is lousy and then going back to the old food and overfeeding again.

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    Hi Shawna — my dog has Glomerulonephritis due to undiagnosed Lyme Disease (we assume). For my dog, however, this caused increased thirst AND hunger (he can’t seem to get enough food – and bangs on his bowl 24-7 and even started to eat weird things, like a dog with PICA – even though he doesn’t have that). He also has a heart condition that makes him out of breath quite quickly, so short brisk walks are all he can tolerate, which only made his weight more difficult to manage. Because his kidneys cannot RETAIN protein – high protein does nothing to him – it just gets “peed” out of his body as fast as it goes in. THIS is why he feels so hungry all the time. :( It is but a short duration that they are on this food (or ANY prescription weight loss food – there are others out there too that are also very effective). Just this last week – I switched him to a new food – low kcal, not worried about protein, HIGH FIBER (highest I could find), and tried to find one with meat in the top 2 ingredients. Not easy to do. I have to do the switch very very slowly so as not to upset his system. Anyway… because he has also had cancerous adenomas removed from his colon – high fiber is a must… so this food also remedies that problem. I think it’s unfair to label foods like this in such negative tones when the alternative is DEATH.

    My vet asked me a very poignant question when I showed concern about what I was feeding my dog… he said, “Do you know anyone whose dog has lived an extraordinarily long, healthy life because it was on a RAW diet, or expensive no grain food?” I had to think a minute — because the reality is – no – I do not. My friends with dogs who are fed RAW diets have all had to deal with cancer and early death as anyone else sadly has.

    Then he said — “I put down dogs who are fed Alpo as often as I put down dogs who are fed the most expensive food you can buy. We only wish we knew how to help them live longer – the truth is, they die.”

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    I agree about the corn… that is a tough one to cut a deal with – however – this food is temporary…. it’s not intended to be a life-long meal plan. If you read about the fiber content — and learn why fiber in this weight loss food is important, you’ll feel much better about using it. After your dog loses the weight — go back to a healthy eating plan, exercise as possible (some dogs gain weight because of heart conditions that restrict their ability to exercise enough to burn off fat), and just keep adjusting things until you find a good balance. Here’s some info on the fiber that is in this food — it makes sense after you read it.

    http://www.healthcastle.com/fiber-solubleinsoluble.shtml

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    That’s an absolute pile of rubbish. Please – consult with your vet and ask what medical conditions cause a dog’s weight to suddenly sky rocket, hunger to sky rocket, and for their bodies to go a bit haywire. THINK and research before you speak. Thyroid conditions not withstanding, let’s start with the kidney, which can leave a dog looking like its been starved to death… or the liver… or the pancreas… or any hormone-producing organ in the body when it becomes diseased. My dog’s GENETIC medical condition that is related to cardiovascular, kidney, and thyroid diseases (we rescued our dog from a horrific puppy farm after it was closed down) causes his weight to fluctuate WILDLY when his body is out of whack. As he ages, his “levels” change… and it is a constant battle to keep the boat upright. So please — consult with your vet – the one who went to school to study this stuff (and not whack-O-pedia), and then get back to us.

  • InkedMarie

    Excellent, Patty! Steve & I had a similar discussion when I told him I was ordering more from Hare Today LOL. He just nodded his head and put more money in the dog food envelope!

  • beaglemom

    Wish I could vote this up multiple times.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.tripper.3950 Jack Tripper

    the harm you are doing to these animals? au contraire jlbrown321. that couldn’t be further from the truth. this site has helped inform thousands of people and is easily the single best resource on the internet for people looking to find out what to feed their dogs. the site may not be perfect but that fact is clearly stated all over the place including at the bottom of each review as well as in dozens of other places on the site (ie “the problem with dog food reviews”). your post is insulting to me and has got to be even more insulting to mike s who has spent countless hours on the site helping countless people and their beloved pets. until you have developed a website or application that has helped thousands of dogs live longer, healthier lives and thousands of owners save money on food and on vet bills, i think its best you keep your venomous comments to yourself.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Last time I checked my dog wasn’t a coyote and I wasn’t trying to prevent starvation. I want the best for my dogs, good enough may be good enough for you, but it’s not good enough for me.

  • Shawna

    K.,

    Coyotes (which dogs did not decend from) may eat corn but they certain can’t eat that much as corn has a short harvest period. I believe it was something like two weeks.

    Those nutrients can all be found in other foods too. Other foods that don’t have some of the negatives of corn. Here’s some of those negatives.

    Lectins (note they use the word “toxic”)

    “The most common potentially ‘toxic’ lectin containing food groups are

    grains, especially wheat and wheat germ but also quinoa, rice, buckwheat, oats, rye, barley, millet and corn.” http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

    Veterinarian Dr. John Symes article entitled “Corn- The Toxic Grain” http://dogtorj.com/appetizers/newest-appetizers/corn-the-toxic-grain/

    Anti-nutrients like phytase (the below discusses human nutrition — imagine the consequences for carnivores)

    “For example, corn, millet, oats and brown rice do not contain sufficient phytase to eliminate all the phytic acid they contain….

    Extruded cereals made of bran and whole grains are a recipe for digestive problems and mineral deficiencies!” http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/living-with-phytic-acid

    There are other reasons to avoid corn but this post is already long enough.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    “while not their first food of choice, when hungry, it will prevent starvation and provide calories for energy.”

    Nice of you to include that part. Too bad you didn’t pay attention to it, as people here have said that over and over again.

    Eating fast food is better than nothing too, but that doesn’t make it healthful.

    Now go find another post nearly a year old to comment on.

  • LabsRawesome

    Whatever.

  • beaglemom

    Not to mention provide exercise. I run or walk my two almost every day… Mostly because they have so much energy!! but it certainly helps maintain a proper weight too.

  • Pattyvaughn

    The dog is overweight because the owner didn’t determine the proper amount of food to feed the dog.

  • beaglemom

    Well said Melissa! Owners should address why the dog is overweight in the first place!

  • Melissaandcrew

    Sorry, but I have to disagree. If an owner is taking good care of their dog, their dog is neither thin nor fat. Unless the dog was just adopted, imo, there is no reason for someone to have to suddenly remove large amounts of weight if the animal has been properly fed to begin with. For me, a medical issue, once d iagnosed is no excuse as the owner has been ‘put on notice” so to speak that the dog has the issue and they(the owner) need to properly monitor it.,

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.tripper.3950 Jack Tripper

    so what you’re saying is that there is no difference between feeding your dog ol roy and orijen? and by the same token, eating processed foods with ingredients like partially hydrogenated soybean oil and high fructose corn syrup is the same thing as eating fruits, veggies and fresh homemade food for us humans right? it’s all genetics apparently.

  • beaglemom

    I respectfully disagree with your vet though. To suggest that diet has no effect on long-term health is just plain ignorant and wrong.

  • beaglemom

    I just can’t get past some of these ingredients. It’s mostly corn, by-products, and a few other strange things. Why can’t Hills put together some ingredient lists that actually resemble real food? It’s great that it has helped your dog and others, but I think what’s key is just as you said – “R/D is not intended to be a forever food”. Excellent point, I think some people forget or just ignore that.

  • Red

    How much does Hill’s pay you per hour?

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.tripper.3950 Jack Tripper

    to this day, many hill’s foods still contain chicken by-products. and corn is basically filler, empty calories, difficult/impossible to digest. and while i agree you that its probably best to not take everything ppl say online as fact, the same goes for the things you are saying. you are free to feed your dogs whatever you wish but this food is rated two stars (which in my opinion is pretty generous) so if you disagree with this site’s rating system and think this food is good, what’s the point of being on the site?

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.tripper.3950 Jack Tripper

    i think giving this food two stars is being pretty generous. up to the point where the supplements start, it only has two non-red ingredients: chicken liver flavor (useless) and lactic acid (useless). so its basically 95% filler mixed with 5% supplements (including non-chelated minerals).

  • Shawna

    I would LOVE for your vet to meet my dog Audrey, the one with congenital kidney disease… :-)

  • Shawna

    Hi K.,
    My dog, the one in the picture to the left, was born with kidney disease. She is still in the early stages of the disease so I too do not avoid protein restriction as yet.
    The reason for my post —- I was not aware of more than two types of kidney disease — acute and chronic. Within the chronic category is different causes such as congential (from birth), bacterial induced etc. What type of kd does your dog have?
    I would be SOOOO afraid to feed my Audrey this food. Not because of the quantity of protein but because of the quality of protein in soy, corn and by-products. She would be very sick on this food I am sure.

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi K.
    ,
    Good for you for speaking your mind. Everyone’s opinion is important. I’m happy your dog is OK.

    I only disagree about fat. I think fat dogs are unhealthy. But fat for dogs is healthy. I have a very lean dog. He eats high protein and fat, but low carbs.
    My last dog ate high carbs, with moderate protein/fat and was huge.

    Good luck.

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    Bravo! I agree 100%. The dog food trends have run amok with misinformation, promises of longer living dogs, and other hooey. Like my vet said the other day, “I have yet to see a dog out-live any other dog because it was on a raw diet or a fancy-no-grain-diet… I’ve put as many dogs down that ate Ol’Roy as I have dogs that ate the most expensive food available… dogs live…. dogs die… don’t over feed them, and just enjoy them.”

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    You are NOT starving your dog – you are saving your dog’s life. R/D is not meant to be a life long food, but rather a medical step to get life threatening weight off effectively and safely – and THEN make changes in your dog’s life to promote a stable weight and level of activity. Congrats on your dog’s weight loss.

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    My dog’s blood panels have come out normal while on R/D. Has your vet suggested why the triglycerides are high? Since high tri’s in dogs can be caused by eating too many calories (which – R/D is low cal), kidney disease, thyroid disease, diabetes, and just plain old genetics, it’s a good opportunity re-test after you change foods. Have you had a thyroid panel done?

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    Ignore the negative comments about R/D – the truth of the matter is your dog has now lost weight, as the product promises, he has not become nutritionally deficient, sickly, or damaged by the food – but rather – is now healthy and stable and ready to be put on a management plan. My vet and I did a lot of research, and have chosen the one food that most closely resembles R/D – but with meat as the first ingredient – and we are going to give it a try. My dog has undefined food allergies (we have been unable to pinpoint the specific allergy) – but no allergy to R/D – so it’s a tough call for us – it’s trial and error. We are going to give Natural Choice Light (Lamb Meal & Rice) a shot – haven’t tried it yet, but the fiber content is the highest so far of any of the other foods we’ve compared. Not as high as R/D, but higher than others – and this fiber is essential to a dog like mine with a kidney disorder that causes my dog to feel constantly hungry. Congrats on your Beagle’s weight loss – you must be so relieved.

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    This is so inaccurate. I – not our vet – figured out what amount was just right for my dog and his particular metabolism (as stated in other posts, my dog has a myriad of health issues that cause his hunger to sky rocket, and his metabolism to basically stand still). We are an active family who plays with and walks our dogs every day (both border collies). I work my dogs – but sadly, one of them (a rescue) is genetically prone to very frustrating conditions that make life difficult for him. No one has had to hold my hand – I chose this food, along with our UC Davis-educated vet (who is outstanding – and has NO dogfood sold in his clinic – as he is not “bought” by any dog food companies, and believes you should just feed your dog whatever you want). I chose this food because a previous vet of ours used it on her lab who had the same condition as my dog, and she felt is saved her lab’s life by getting his weight under control. I have used it off and on ever since. Making assumptions about why a dog does or does not have a weight problem is a tricky thing…. Yes, we have a fat dog problem in our country (over feeding, the mistaken belief that grain free food is the best when it is making SOME dogs fatter, and people being too busy to exercise their dogs). I agree with you that ANY FOOD should work – and this is the same opinion of our vet… but when a vet prescribes food based on their medical knowledge… that decision is heavily weighted. Will the dog’s life be at risk if it doesn’t loose weight immediately? Will the dog risk blowing out its knees or other joints if it does not lose weight immediately? Is the owner unable to provide the necessary environment for the dog to lose weight (elderly owners, disabled, etc)? A lot of factors are at play – not just $$$. While the world is a $$ focused place at times… not everyone is “bad” or evil money-hungry-thieves. :) Let’s put things into perspective. If this food can save a dog’s life, and give the owner a chance to make effective changes to maintain that loss, then it should be encouraged. I use R/D when my dog’s weight starts to head back up again (through no one’s fault but genetics/disease)… and then we get back onto our normal weight management food. I have been very grateful for R/D… and I’m sure other prescription foods could provide the same results… and they are all intended to be temporary.

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    The calorie, fiber, protein, and carb content of Blue Buffalo does not provide the weight loss benefits of R/D. R/D is only intended to provide effective, almost immediate weight loss in dogs with a serious medical need for such loss – which is why it is prescription based. Blue Buffalo, and other weight loss foods are great for maintenance. R/D is not intended to be the forever food, but rather the catalyst to measurable weight loss that can get the pet’s health under control, allowing the owner to make changes in the pet’s lifestyle that can maintain the weight loss. While I’m beginning to feel like some kind of rep for S.D. (I’m not) — I’m really only speaking as someone who feels this food has saved my dog’s life…. not once, but twice. He has a metabolism issue (genetic), kidney disease (not the kind where you have to avoid protein, thankfully), and now has had knee surgery. Preventing his other knee from blowing out is imperative — so we find using R/D periodically helps to keep him lean. We have used every weight loss dog food on the market – regardless of cost – and R/D has been the ONLY food thus far that had measurable results. FAT kills dogs, and that is a sad fact. It cannot be denied that R/D works – and my dog’s blood panels are in perfect order, so this food has had no negative effect on his total health. If I ever found that it did – I would post it here, and inform others. So far – so good, and we are fans of this food.

  • beaglemom

    The validity of the site has nothing to do with the “hypocrisy” and/or difference in opinions of those posting here. The site is meant to help you learn. What you do with the information is your decision. Personally I’ve learned the most from learning “the facts” and then listening to everyone else’s discussion before making my own decisions.

  • Pattyvaughn

    If you’d looked around a little, some manufacturers do come on this sight to answer questions, refute statements, etc. I don’t believe anyone from Hill’s will bother, because they are FULLY aware that they have made their dog food out of the cheapest ingredients possible to get the job done. And they charge a premium price. They didn’t formulate their food with the best ingredients, they formulated with the cheapest.

  • InkedMarie

    You’re complaining about something that was posted nine months go?

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hi K –

    Your concerns are understandable and I agree – some individuals mock those with opposing views and no it’s not fair. However, if you read under “The Final Word” at the end of the review you’ll see Dr. Mike states: “This review is designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food. However our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet….when in doubt consult a veterinarian for help.” The ratings here on DFA just rate foods based on their ingredient quality, not what health conditions they are or are not intended to treat. Owners of dogs with serious health issues, such as yours, may have to rate foods on different criteria than someone with a healthy dog. However, I do have to say – and this is just my opinion – I would only feed a prescription food as a last resort. While it is true that these prescription foods can in many cases treat the condition they are intended to treat, there’s no denying that they are made with low quality ingredients. I strongly believe that in most cases a holistic veterinarian or nutritionist could formulate a homemade food that serves the same purpose as a prescription food or direct a pet parent to a higher quality commercial food that would be suitable given the pet’s condition.

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    I thought “toxed” just stated that it is against the rules of this forum to be rude??? This sort of hypocrisy does not bolster the validity of this site. :(

  • http://twitter.com/bigMTsky K.

    It concerns me that if a reader/visitor to this site posts a comment or opinion that opposes or questions the information provided here, that they are quickly mocked, degraded, and called a liar? I’ve enjoyed using this site – but I am careful to take the information here with a grain of salt unless and until I have run it by my vet and our canine nutritionist. Science Diet’s R/D has – literally – saved my dog’s life. Period. He is alive and well and has been eating this for years due to a medical condition that causes his body to store fat, lowers his metabolism, etc as well as a kidney condition that will ultimately be fatal. Without this food, my dog would already be dead. It would be extremely helpful if this website offered manufacturers a chance to respond to your claims in order to maintain not just fairness, but complete transparency. Thank you.

  • coconuts

    No but they should look into the dog foods before they recommend them, It’s insane that so many recommend science diet when it’s such a crappy food

  • Pattyvaughn

    I don’t mean the formulation is a marketing gimick, I mean naming the food Prescription Diet is a marketing gimick.

  • Shawna

    Corn is really not a “fine protein”. It may be quite digestible but it is poorly utilized by the cells of the body – poor bioavailability. The part that really counts.

    The dog in my avatar, Audrey, was born with kidney disease. Symptoms of excess drinking and urinating noticed at six weeks of age. Officially diagnosed at one year check up. I wouldn’t feed her Hills KD, or any other prescription food, for anything. Even if it was free.

    Audrey has NEVER eaten a prescription food and will be seven years old the end of June 2013. I choose to research better quality options and it has paid off. Her estimated life expectancy was two years.. Quality counts!!

  • aimee

    You are entitled to your opinion just as I’m entitled to mine, my opinion being that it is a good food.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Hi Patty-

    While the individual ingredients are not classified as “prescription” items, the formulation themselves are made/formulated to treat specific health conditions. Not every diet would be suitable for the long term feeding of the average dog-IMo, they should be used only on the advise of a veterinarian(and the cans are marked as such) . I don’t see it as a marketing gimmick-Rd for example is heavily restricted in calories and is not to be fed to an animal unless under the strict care of a vet-Once a dog reaches the proper weight, they need to be moved off of it.

  • Pattyvaughn

    There is nothing in “prescription diets” that actually requires a prescription. It is just a marketing gimick. But I agree with you that a dog that does not specifically need a “prescription diet” shouldn’t eat this stuff.

  • Melissaandcrew

    Hi Mary-

    What were you feeding your schnauzer when it became diabetic? I have used the Rx diets in the past , and would again for a short term if need be or if nothing else would work. I do disagree however, that its okay for your healthy dog to eat it. After all, its a PRESCRIPTION food, and animals, the same as people should not share prescriptions. If it were okay for the average dog to eat it, it would not need to be a prescription item, would it?

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    I will take back the “fool” comment. But I stand by my opinion that it’s not a good food.

  • aimee

    BryanV21, It is equally important to consider those individuals like myself who evaluate food by different parameters than you do. Having a clean facility, and having veterinary nutritionists on staff is part and parcel of making a quality food. I neither consider myself uneducated or a fool and knowing all I know I have chosen to use Hill’s as part of Jack’s diet.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

    The first thing any food manufacturer should talk about is the quality of their food. Not how clean their facility is, or how many vets they employ.

    It’s not a good food. Stop trying to make yourself feel better about having fed it for so long and educate yourself. I’m not saying you or others that have used it are fools. It’s when you’re presented with information so that you can make a better decision, but fail to do so, that you become a fool.

  • LabsRawesome

    Mary, you have no idea what I know. I stand by my comment. Hills food is trash, it’s made with the cheapest ingredients possible. People feeding Hills might as well buy Purina, because they have the same ingredients. Go ahead pay top dollar for floor sweepings.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I did work for one vet who had a god complex, or maybe it was short people complex, it’s hard to tell.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    How fitting. I just got this article in my email from Dog’s Naturally – “A Case in the Over Servicing of Dogs by Veterinarians”

    http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/a-case-study-in-the-over-servicing-of-dogs-by-veterinarians/

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I know how you feel, I don’t have a holistic vet near me either – closest I could find was a 7 hour drive. I do like my vet though, aside from the fact that she dislikes raw. My family has been bringing our pets to her for over 20 years and she’s never steered us wrong.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Probably true.

    I’ve actually been reading some material sponsored by Hill’s intended for students in vet school (I’ve been trying to figure out why vets are so against raw and homemade) and it’s making it more clear to me why vet’s think the way they do. Last night I read an excerpt that literally made me laugh out loud:

    “Clients who want to avoid additives (e.g., flavorings, colorings, binders and emulsifiers) as a generic group are often not well-informed…Veterinarians should explain the positive aspects of additives to give clients sufficient comfort level to feed a commercial product instead of a homemade food.”

    When this type of information is what’s taught to them in school, I guess it explains why so many are against homemade food, holistic treatments, etc. etc. It’s really sad that these are the types of things that they’re taught.

  • Alexandra

    I agree with you HDM,

    But having been burned the way that I have had, I am less inclined to “trust” anything that I am told.

    The problem in my area is almost all of the vets are very old school minded here, I have had heated discussions over food as they frown on raw. Vaccines, well they are needed. Making me feel like a horrible owner.

    The nearest holistic vet of any quality is a three hour drive for me, not all that practical.

    The industry as a whole is very corrupt from food on down. :-(

  • Alexandra

    Hi Melissa,

    It was a level of trust, that is why I allowed. It will NEVER be allowed to happen again.

  • http://www.theholisticchatterbox.com/ Shawna

    HDM ~~ I’m not saying that ALL vets are purposefully trying to make our pets sick.. Sorry if it came across that way. I do think SOME vets pad their pocket book. I do think SOME vets are more concerned about money than health. And I do agree that vets are undereducated. But I also think it is up to any medical provider to be current on technologies, recommendations etc. They have the resources to do this.

    I also agree that industry is the true con artist… And possibly to some degree the universities.

    Melissa — Well said… I often let my dogs be taken from my site for minor procedures. I think it’s time I buck up and say wait a minute here….

  • Melissaandcrew

    Why do owners allow their dogs to be taken from the exam room? This just boggles my mind and I hear it all the time-that the dog goes in the back for blood draw or ear cleaning etc. Just why can’t that be done in the room and how many people would allow their child to be taken out of view for minor procedures such as this? My dogs do not leave my sight for the basics-only xray, actual surgery etc..

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Sorry guys, but I don’t think the majority of vets are sitting in their offices scheming about how quickly they can kill off their clients pets with vaccines, drugs and bad food. As a general rule, I think vets have the animal’s best interest at heart. I don’t think they intentionally harm anyone’s animals, but I do think that many conventional vets unintentionally harm animals due to the simple fact that they’re undereducated about the risks of vaccines, drugs and poor nutrition and receive little to no education about alternative modalities in vet school. The technicians at my shelter were taught that the more vaccines an animal receives the more immune that animal is. Whenever there is a parvo or kennel cough outbreak they think it’s best to re-booster even if an animal has a titer showing it’s immune. They think more vaccines result in a higher titer which means the animal is more immune. Most veterinarians feed their own animals foods like Purina, SD, RC and Eukanuba. Obviously, like us, they love their animals and want to do what’s best for them. They wouldn’t be feeding these foods to their own animals if they thought they weren’t the best – in school they are taught that these foods are the best. These are the types of things taught to vets and veterinary technicians and it’s what they believe to be true. I think the con artists are the big players in the pet food industry and the pharmaceutical industry – not the veterinarians.

  • Alexandra

    Hi HDM,

    I would say that my former vet “forced” vaccines AND when Dante was a patient of hers she wanted him to eat Royal Canine for hydrolized proteins AFTER she advised me to “get off of the grains”

  • http://www.theholisticchatterbox.com/ Shawna

    Alexandra took her dog Dante in to her “holistic” vet to be titered. While they had him in the back drawing the blood for titering they vaccinated him for lepto. Alexandra did not give permission for any vaccinations. It wasn’t even discussed. They just did it.

    Her new holistic vet agrees that the problems she is experiencing with Dante now are due to vacinosis from the lepto shot. The reason Alexandra requested titering is that Dante was already having issues and she didn’t want to vaccinate needlessly.

    Alexandra briefly talks about it in the comment section of an article she wrote (we talked more in depth on the phone) http://www.theholisticchatterbox.com/forums/topic/do-vets-always-know-best/

    I DEFINITELY agree that not every vet is out to con their clients.

    My hubby is an electrician. He has to take continuing education classes. I expect my health care providers to be up to date on current recommendations and practices too. Vets have access to publications like DVM360 that inform them of new data.

    Pay special attention, in my opinion, to this comment “The potential loss in practice income if annual vaccinations were discontinued has been a major concern.” Loss of revenue (not the health of your cat or dog) was a “major” concern.

    “Another controversial approach in both the
    2003 and 2006 Guidelines is to administer core vaccines every 3 years instead of
    annually. Veterinarians have questioned both the legality and wisdom of delaying
    boosters for 3 years when vaccine labels clearly state that annual revaccination
    is recommended. Discussions of “off-label” use and whether practitioners will be
    held responsible if something goes wrong are common. There was and is a feeling
    that annual vaccinations have nearly wiped out common infectious diseases and
    any change would be a regression, possibly leading to outbreaks. The potential
    loss in practice income if annual vaccinations were discontinued has been a
    major concern. The question is asked “Why every 3 years instead of every 2, or
    4, or some other interval?” And perhaps the underlying issue is “if it ain’t
    broke, why fix it?”.

    Research undertaken by several vaccine
    manufacturers and independent investigators since the 2003 Guidelines were
    published have demonstrated that core antigens do indeed protect dogs from
    challenge 3 years after vaccination. Many practitioners were reluctant to
    consider 3-year intervals because no challenge studies had been published. Now
    we not only have peer-reviewed research to back up 3-year duration of immunity
    (DOI) but also a USDA-licensed vaccine.” http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/avhc/content/printContentPopup.jsp?id=715977

    I know we’ve been off topic here…..Sorry Mike..

  • Marie

    Like everyone else, veterinarians are human and some don’t have the animal’s best interest in mind. I don’t think that means every vet is out to con clients. Some might really believe vaccination every year is the key to good health and in like human medicine, it’s up to you to stand up for yourself and decide what’s right for you and yours. I can’t imagine my pets being vaccinated without my permission. I don’t think a vet would deliberately vaccinate without the owners expressed permission.

  • http://www.theholisticchatterbox.com/ Shawna

    I WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree HDM.. SOME vets definitley do try to “con” people.. I have first hand experience. My own vet (the practice actually has 5 vets on staff) discussed with me (only after I brought it up of course) the newer recommendations for 3 year core vaccines instead of every 1 year revaccination. She told me their recommendation was to give parvo one year, distemper the next year and adeno the 3rd year and then start over again with parvo.

    Our rescue uses the same clinic/vet. Come to find out she is still vaccinating the rescue presidents own dogs yearly for everything (except rabies). I started talking to more people I know that go there and same thing, their dogs are vaccinated annually for everything but rabies..

    Different vet in the same clinic was busted by the rescue president when she suggested lung xrays were needed. The rescue presidents husband is a pulmonologist and was there. He asked her why the lungs would need xrayed and she tried to talk her way out of it but he knew better. They won’t allow ANY of their own or the rescue dogs to go to that vet any longer if they are paying for the services.

    I’m sure this is not an isolated incidence in an isolated clinic.

  • Marie

    Really? My vet likes the burnt sacrifices I make to her – the restraining order proves it.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Vets aren’t God, they can’t know everything.

  • Pattyvaughn

    You have an extremely oversimplified view of what a vet does. Vets have to learn how to treat all the different diseases of all the different animals. Some things have to take a backseat. Those are exactly the things that pet owners can and should be responsible for learning about themselves. You can’t put all the blame on vets when pet owners are too lazy to educate themselves about the very animal that they have decided to take care of. Don’t get an animal if you don’t want to educate yourself about it.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    I don’t think vets purposely try to “con” people into overvaccinating and feeding crappy food. I think that in school vets are conned into believing that drugs, vaccines and prescription foods are the answer – so this is what they believe. The pharmaceutical industry and the pet food industry are powerful, they sponsor a lot of educational materials for veterinarians.

  • lilly tilly

    You can actually purchase a much better product for much less. Learn the read the ingredient labels… THAT is what people with pets MUST do.

  • lilly tilly

    They endorse to make more money, NO other reason.

  • lilly tilly

    You are right, but funny when we the regular folk have to educate our vets!

  • lilly tilly

    Most vets sure know how to con people to buy their crap… over vaccination, over priced poor food, surgery/drugs instead of a switch to quality food. ANIMAL HEALTH is their business and their education, they dont get paid to NOT know. NO EXCUSES. Ether they love money… or Animals, not both.

  • JellyCat

    Well, like I said many vets have NO IDEA what this food is made of. I do have good vets for my different pet species, but most of them used to endorse these foods. However, they did not simply know what is in the food exactly. Like one of them confessed he endorsed it just because their representatives are very convincing. Vets do not have representatives of other food brends that bribe them with free dinners, educational materials and such. It is very much like big pharma visiting med students :-) and MD’s

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    I put my 9 yr old obese foster pug on a canned food/raw diet combo. He lost 8.5 lbs in 2 months. No Rx food needed.

  • JellyCat

    My vet recommended once that I should get Hills Kitten for my ferrets because cats (just like ferrets) are obligate carnivores (he never heard of Orijen cat food so he wasn’t sure about quality of this particular food).
    I told him then that I will not feed this to my ferrets as this food contains corn and soy and is mainly plant based. My vet was really surprised by my statement ans said that this could not be true as they (obligate carnivores) cannot handle corn! When he actually looked at ingredient list he was really shocked and embarrassed.
    I asked another vet’s opinion on the best cat food and he said it was Science Diet. I asked him why does he think so and he said that this is because he talked to their representatives and they say it is good …
    So I think talking to your vets and reminding them about evidence based practice that they are obligated to provide is not a bad thing.

  • JellyCat

    You claim that Hills makes perfectly specie appropriate animal food. At the same time you do understand that cats are true carnivores (obligate carnivores) and cannot handle carbs and plant matter like dogs can. Just look then at the ingredients and nutritional profile of any Hills cat food. Corn and soy are main ingredients. So the fact that vets sell it does not mean that this food is specie appropriate or even OK food.

  • JellyCat

    Hills facility is staffed by vets and nutritionists because they need to figure out the way to make food as cheap as possible without causing immediate harm that will be so obvious that it could be traced to their **** food.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Being made in the US does not make it a good food. And being made with the cheapest ingredients possible does not make it a good food. Making it primarily out of grains to “avoid the possibility” of allergies that don’t exist does not make it a good food. You may take garbage and create something that a dog will eat, but that doesn’t make it a good food. The fact that your cat is addicted to it makes it a drug, not a good food. I’ve used Science Diet in the past, but Thank God, I got educated, because it’s not a good food.

  • InkedMarie

    Have you taken a look at the ingredients? IF a dog truly needs a prescription food for a serious medical issue, then so be it but for most dogs? Nope, there are many quality products on the market.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1002439570 Mary Blumreich

    Hill’s is unfairly maligned. It is totally made in the U.S. with products sourced from N. America and New Zealand. They have a facility that is available for tours and staffed with vets and nutritionists that constantly work to make the best foods for particular ages and ailments of pets. Google Hill’s and look for the facility online; in the meantime, corn, properly cooked as in Hill’s foods is a fine source of protein and gives fewer allergies to pets than beef, chicken etc. Too many people have joined the parade against Hill’s just parroting things they have read and heard from other people, mostly online. Don’t just take a stranger’s advice online for gospel. Research things for yourself. Hill’s has recently made formula changes so that no chicken by-products appear in their foods, along with other more modern ways of formulating pet foods. My 20 year old cat Rocky would eat nothing but Science Diet. It worked for him. My diabetic Schnauzer has been on Hill’s W/D prescription diet for several months. Diabetes totally now under control, weight under control, liver and pancreatic enzymes are looking excellent from not so good. The food has done wonders for her; she loves it and in fact the other Schnauzer who is well also loves the dry food. Vet says it is okay for him to eat it also. I don’t work for Hill’s, no family member works for Hill’s, I don’t own stock in Hill’s, etc…I just hate to see “sound bites” from people talking about things they obviously know nothing about.

  • Melissaandcrew

     Because for the average owner who wants simple and their hand held, it works. The vet figures out how much to feed and all the owner has to do is put it in the bowl and do regular weigh ins. I just don’t see how dog weight loss has become such big business with prescription diets. The dog is NOT serving his or herself, so with a little adjustment and work on behalf of the owner, any food should work.

  • sarahbear

     *my dog Cloe a 74lb shepherd mix, 4lb down 8lb to go.

  • sarahbear

    My dog has been on the r/d diet for about a month and lost 4 pounds. My vet really pushed  me into buying it for her but after my own research I would have never bought this. It’s a horrible quality food that costs much much more than it should, there are much better and healthier low cal dog foods such as blue buffalo. Why so many veterinarians endorse these products is beyond me.

  • Bob K

     fraser barclay  – Use this website as your guide and do some comparison shopping for a quality 4 or 5 star rated dog food.  Many mfgs. have diet dog food formulas.  Its not that hard to visit a few pet shops, Menards, Farm & Fleet stores and see what they sell.  Remember to transition to a new food slowly. A few ideas to help manage your dogs weight.  1.) Exercise – both you and the dog multiple times a day.  Play with toys, go for walls and runs, both of you together    2.) Measure the dog food, don’t guess or estimate by your highly trained eye  3.) Manage treats and human food you provide as a special treat to your loved one. 

  • fraser barclay

    MY BEAGLE HAS BEEN ON HILLS R/DFOR 3 MONTHS AND HER WEIGHT IS BACK TO NORMAL .COAT IS GLOSSY AND NOT LOSING HAIR. BUT EXPENSIVE. CAN I NOW USE CHEAPER PRODUCT?

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    There is a “Suggested Low Fat Foods” list you can look at.  My latest obese foster pug is just on canned or raw food for the last 2 months and he’s gone from 35.5 to 28. He either gets one can a day (Wellness Stews, Merrick Classic, Merrick 96%, Addiction) or 6 oz of raw food and he’s even eaten some The Honest Kitchen Zeal formula which is low fat.

    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/suggested-low-fat-dog-food/

  • http://twitter.com/ArsenRabinovich Arsen Rabinovich

    Hey everyone!

    My 7 year old female pug/spaniel mix has been on RD chicken since May 2012, she is loosing weight which is good. We’ve done two sets of blood work on her since she started RD, both returned with high triglycerides (last one was in the thousands), all other markers are within norm. 
    I want to take her off RD ASAP, can you recommend a food that will be at or around the 8% fat level with all the good proteins that she needs?

    THANKS! 

  • Toxed2loss

    Hi Meri,
    I agree with Hound Dog Mom’s recommendation to pick a high quality food and add canned pumpkin. I use Brother’s Fish formula, because its flax free ( have estrogen dominance from pesticide exposures, I can’t have phytoestrogens in the house), as well as potato & Grain free. Grain & high glycemic starches are converted to glucose, which causes insulin spikes. Something a dog with diabetis should avoid. Brother’s has the highest standards of practice that I’ve seen so far and the best nutritional balance. Go to brotherscomplete.com and read their statement and FAQ. if you have any questions, you can contact Richard Darlington by pstong on the Brothers thread.

    Diabetes & colitis are also known to be caused and exacerbated by dietary and environmental toxins, so I’d recommend eliminating those. If you want help identifying them, and non toxic alternatives, just ask.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    You could always just pick a regular 4 or 5 star high quality food and add some canned pumpkin. Fruitables makes some good fiber supplements as well: http://fruitablespetfood.com/fruitables_food_supplement.html#tab2 . Bryan had some good advice as well with suggesting legume-based foods, Zigature does look like a pretty good food.

  • http://www.thegreedypinstripes.com/ BryanV21

     I believe foods that use peas or other legumes as opposed to potato have higher fiber in them. I know that Zignature, which is potato free (and grain free), has a higher than average fiber content. And I like their food, as it’s above average in animal-based protein (much higher than Hills).

    California Natural Kangaroo & Lentils is also above average, but a bit lower than the Zignature (I think it’s 6.5% fiber to 5%). I’m not a big Cal Nat fan, though, as the company that makes it is owned by Proctor & Gamble. Not to mention that the protein content isn’t very high.

  • Meri

    Hi,
    I am new here. I was looking at Hills R/D posts. My dog needs fiber for colitis and diabetes. This food firms up his stools and makes him poop. I use this and Purina DCO as a suppliment to his regualr food. I have not found a high quality commercial dog food with a lot of fiber. Are their any out there?
    Thanks,
    MB

  • aimee
  • BryanV21

    Correction, they make A LOT of money from you buying it. The mark-up is ridiculous.

  • InkedMarie

    thank you!

  • EvesHumanMom
  • InkedMarie

    Aimee, do you have a link to the fb page for Mabel? I cant find it. Have you seen the doxie who has a fb cage? HUGE! Hopefully not for long, though

  • aimee

    Hi Dawnfrancisco42,

    Just to give you a different perspective I think vets recommend R/D for weight loss because the board certified veterinary nutrition (ACVN)experts recommend this food for weight loss. 

    Have you ever seen Mabel the beagle facebook page? She was adopted by an ACVN veterinarian  She weighed in at 67 pounds and is on her weight loss journey. Her program consists of R/D, underwater treadmill and now swimming. : )

    Vets choose products like this specifically not to starve the dog of nutrients while on a restricted number of calories. 

    Congrats on the 21 lbs weight loss!! 

    Nutritionists use different parameters to judge food 

  • InkedMarie

    Because vets get next to nothing for nutrition in vet school. I don’t know how many vets do but I know some get a kickback or similar by selling veterinary food. If you’d like your dog to lose some weight, you can use any top quality food and feed less, you can do what I did with a dog: fed Wellness Core’s reduced fat food, feeding the amount for what the dog *should* weigh

  • Storm’s Mom

    Dawnfrancisco42 – in addition to what Labs said, vets prescribe it because they sell the food and make money from you buying it.

  • LabsRawesome

     Hi Dawnfrancisco, Yes Hill’s is a horrible food. Did you read the detailed review above? Vets prescribe it because the “nutrition” part of their schooling is an indoctrination class taught by a Hills rep. Sad but true. If you are looking to have your dog lose weight try a grain free canned dog food. Like Merrick 5 star, or if you’re on a budget, go for Costco’s Kirkland cuts in gravy. Both are rated 5 star foods, on this site. My dogs love both of these foods.

  • Dawnfrancisco42

    If this is such a terrible food why are Vets prescribing it? I’m concerned now…my dog has been on this food by the vets recommendation to lose weight since March 31st. He was 133 and is now down to 112 (sept). Am I starving my dog? 

  • melissa

     LOl.. I had just read the original comment and “poof” it was edited. For a brief moment, I thought I was imagining it : )

  • Marie

     Heh, oops I got censored. My bad :)

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Jess…..

    That one handsome dog. and a great picture as well.

  • Jess

    Well labs looks like they come here also. By the way Tony is waiting at the lake for the big race.

  • Jess

     Jlbrown321, LOL, DUDE YOU ARE AS WRONG AS WRONG CAN BE. This site has no commitment to any dog food company or companies. Try    http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients  they say almost the same thing, they also have no commitment to any company.

  • LabsRawesome

     WHOA! Marie, tell us how you really feel. LOL

  • Marie

    Jlbrown321, shut up and quit being such a dick. Communicate your opposing thoughts respectfully and there will be no problems.

  • Toxed2loss

    LOL, thats better than shnopps!

  • doggonefedup

     more info on gluten at 
    http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1574269

    vinegar and alcohol will flush it out of their systems.
    My GSD’s will only accept German Beer!  ;-) just kidding.

  • Toxed2loss

    Thanks doggone! I didn’t know that! GFETE

  • Toxed2loss

    Thanks Alexandra! :-)

  • Toxed2loss

    Thanks John! :-)

  • LabsRawesome

     Oh YAY. Another corn cheerleader. You are the one making ridiculous claims. Stick around, their are a bunch of knowledgeable people on this site that can school you…. because you need it.  :)

  • Bob K

     Jlbrown321 – Have you read the detailed reports posted here?  Perhaps you have a better place to research dog food?  Please tell us if you do.  Please do not believe all the hype thats on the vendors websites as the devils in the details when you research a little deeper.    Corn – I have never seen dogs eat corn over meat.  I never thought of a dog as a vegetarian.  We feed pigs corn to fatten them up along with other poor quality grains and byproducts.  Why not feed your dog a similar quality meat you might eat?  Do you eat chicken by products?  How about rendered meat meals?    Some of the products you mention might be nutrient rich but are they quality nutrients?  You can certainly feed your dog a 1 star rated food or 5 star rated food but the ingredients are very different.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    JLBrown321,

    I’m sorry you feel the more than 750 documented reviews and articles published here make my website “ridiculous” and “uninformed”. For that was certainly never my intent when I researched and posted this material.

    Unfortunately, it’s obvious to all you’ve not taken even a few minutes to refer to the many footnotes and links supporting the scientific information posted on nearly every page of this website.

    For example, your claim that corn “provides essential fatty acids, protein, and amino acids for the many processes in the body” proves you are misinformed and have little real knowledge regarding the nutritional value of corn to a dog.

    With the sole exception of its energy content (also known as calories), corn is of only minimal nutritional value to canines.

    After all, whole grain corn contains only 13% (biologically incomplete) plant-based protein and its associated amino acids compared to chicken which contains over 79% (nutritionally superior) animal-based protein.

    What’s more, the actual measured quantity of essential fatty acids found in corn are only minimal. The small amount of fatty acids present are mostly of the unhealthy omega-6 type.

    So, unlike the healthy 4 to 1 ratio recommended by many professionals, whole grain corn sports a highly unfavorable and unhealthy omega-6 to omega-3 ratio of nearly 34 to 1!

    In any case, what I find even more disturbing than the inaccuracies included in your comment is the mean-spirited and unfriendly nature of your remarks.

    The Dog Food Advisor community encourages “courteous critiques, polite debate and calm disagreement”.

    Unfortunately, your recent remarks compel me to remind you to please adhere to Our Commenting Policy which states:

    “… we delete comments that exceed the boundaries of courteous behavior. This includes remarks that are rude, profane, mean-spirited, disrespectful, lack good manners or otherwise unrelated to the topic at hand.”

    Please consider yourself duly warned.

  • doggonefedup

     Just a quick note before i get out to the garden. You forgot to point out that the simple digestive tract of dogs for instance has a tendency to accumulate gluten in the intestinal tract and inhibit digestion causing the animal to require more and more calories to maintain a healthy conditoion.

  • Alexandra

    Bravo Toxed!

    Beautiful post!

  • Johnandchristo

    Hi Toxed……..

    I agree with Shawna great post!!!! A very good read.

  • Toxed2loss

    Thank you Shawna!!

    We do share so everyone can learn! Hopefully we can help Jlbrown321 learn the real truth about healthful dog food and maybe he/she will come to respect the large volume of research and time that Dr. Mike has put into this site.

  • Shawna

    Excellent post Toxed!!!

    I had to laugh to myself when Jlbrown321 started discussing biological value (of corn and by-products)…  Guessing there is not a true understanding of what BV means..

  • Toxed2loss

    In response to your claim of “no scientific bases,” I offer the following in regards to meat protein being superior to corn, including bioavailability:

    “Their digestive tracts are short, and simple as opposed to the complex system of digestion required by herbivores in order to digest and assimilate indigestible plant materials, and dogs and cats need to consume preformed amino acids from their food. Their digestive tract contains specific enzymes such as protease for digesting protein, and lipase for digesting fat in the right proportions for a meat based diet, the diet they evolved to eat.” 
    http://www.petsynergy.com/overview.html

    “The biological value of a protein is a measure of that protein’s ability to supply amino acids, particularly the 10 essential amino acids, and to supply these amino acids in the proper proportions.>>>> In general, animal proteins (meat, by-product meal) have higher biological value than vegetable proteins (soybean meal, corn gluten meal).” Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine, http://www.vetmed.vt.edu/vth/sa/clin/cp_handouts/Nutrition_Adult_Dog.pdf

    “Remember, though, that grains provide mostly carbohydrates and only limited amino acid (protein) profiles. Extra carbohydrate intake, above the immediate needs of the dog (which occurs often with grain-based diets) prompts internal enzyme factors to store that extra carbohydrate (sugar) as fat.”  T. J. Dunn, Jr., DVM, http://www.petmd.com/dog/nutrition/evr_dg_focusing_on_ protein_in_the_diet

    “Grains tend to be better sources of carbohydrate, a quick source of energy. Animal-derived tissues are more easily digestible and have a more complete array of amino acids than do grains. http://www.petmd.com/dog/nutrition/evr_dg_focusing_on_protein_in_ the_diet?page=2

    Not all proteins are created equal, and some are better for pets than others. Every protein source contains different levels of amino acids and each protein is different in its ability to be broken down into amino acids. The ability of a protein to be used by the body and its amount of usable amino acids is termed biological value. Egg has the highest biological value and sets the standard by which other proteins are judged. Egg has a biological value of 100. Fish meal and milk are close behind with a value of 92. Beef is around 78 and soybean meal is 67. Meat and bone meal and wheat are around 50 and corn is 45. Things like hair and feathers would be very high in protein but would be down at the bottom of the list for biological value.  http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=459#answer_3

  • Toxed2loss

    Jlbrown,
    While you are welcome to state your opposing opinion, it is against the user agreement of this site to do so in a rude or demeaning manner.

    Please apologize for your rudeness and keep your comments civil or your comments will be removed and you will be banned.

  • Jlbrown321

    This is the most ridiculous, uninformed website I have ever witnessed.  You are constantly relaying wrong information, assumed product ingredients, have absolutely no scientific basis on any of these claims.  Do you realize the harm you are doing to these animals?  Dogs have a very high digestibility rate for corn, it provides essential fatty acids, protein, and amino acids for the many processes in the body.  Chicken by-product absolutely does not mean “unsavory leftovers”.  They can be, and are at the legitimate, researched companies, nutrient-rich, highly digestible forms of protein.  An example would be the undeveloped eggs of chickens, and cleaned out intestine.  Though this may seem gross to you, they have very high bio-availability rates, and are excellent sources of nutrients.  You are just an idiot, trying to sound like you know something, when all you are doing is reiterating the crap that everyone sees on tv with all these celebrities making food!!!!  Dick Van Patten????  Give me a break.  Give me a scientific-based company any day over a guy like you!!!

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Marquis40,

    I’ve never put a dog on RX food or low fat food to lose weight.  And actually I never would even consider it (Rx food) after seeing the ingredients that are in them.  You might look at Premium Edge Healthy Weight I Healthy Weight Reduction formula along with some others from the low fat list if you want to stick with the low fat route.

    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/suggested-low-fat-dog-food/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47Q4zkRL9uI

    My personal dogs and my foster dogs lose weight eating low carb foods, moderate fat, and mod-high protein and raw foods with real meat not protein from corn gluten or soybean or other vegetarian sources or fillers like cellulose or any “mill run”.

  • Marquis40

    That is awful news, I am so sorry your pet is so sick

  • Marquis40

    She does not have a medical condition, she is just over weight. She was once 105lbs now she is 85lbs. I am trying out Natural Balance Ultra dry and NB vegetarian wet, mixing it with R/D for a few days.

  • CODY20114

    WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT GO BACK TO SCHOOL

  • CODY20114

    IS RD THE RIGHT FOOD IS IT LIKE THE ONE THEY TOOK OFF TJE MARKET MY DOG IS IN THE HOSPITAL HER ORGANS SHUT DOWN I’M CONCERN NO DOCTER KNOWS WHY COULD THIS BE SHE HAD BEEN TAKEN RDFOR A WHILE I’M JUST HEARING ABOUT BAD DOG FOOD
    VERY UPSET I’LL LOOSING MY BELOVED FRIEND

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Are you just looking for weight loss foods or does your dog have a medical condition other than being fat since I don’t know what the R/D stands for?

    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/weight-loss-dog-foods/

  • Marquis40

    This product is very expensive, I want to switch but don’t know what to buy. Does anyone have any suggestions for a golden retriever?

  • http://musclemaximizerfacts.com/ Jonson

    Important composition indeed! I’m very exciting to read about this “hill’s prescription diet”. It is really a great entry. Thanks for this allocation.

  • Shawna

    Labs ~~ Yep, it was really funny..  She would huff and puff and get all kinds of bent out of shape and annoyed but she would remain in the tub.  She was apparently used to getting her way.  She would fight with the other dogs and bite the humans if she didn’t get her way.  She was five years old when she came to us and in that short life had been turned in to the Denver Dumb Friends League three times (a kill shelter) before rescue got her.

    Now she can get out no problem so luckily she doesn’t need time outs but very infrequently.. :) Hee hee hee

    The hat represents our State college football team — The Nebraska Cornhuskers (ughhhh).. :)

  • LabsRawesome

    Shawna, lol- she couldn’t get out of the tub! She looks much better! LOVE the red cowboy hat. Too cute.

  • Shawna

    Yah, she looked like she had eaten two soccer balls — seriously!!!  It was easy to discipline her (she liked to fight with my dogs — we ended up adopting her by the way).  I would put her in the bath tub for time outs and she couldn’t get out :) ….  Worked like a charm.  She quit starting fights after only several months and about 10 time outs…  Hee hee hee  She couldn’t get up on the furniture either…

    I have before and after pictures posted at the link below (she’s 14 pounds in the one pic which is not ideal but much better then 29).  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-feeding-tips/dog-lose-weight/

  • Sarott

    Holy moly that’s a large Papillon!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1059960084 Jenn Hill

    Food depends solely on how the animal reacts to it. Some cats can thrive off 2 star foods, and others have horrible reactions.

    Mike Sagmans review on the food is based entirely on the ingredients.. Having ground whole corn as the first ingredient, well.. There’s your reason why this food is only rated two stars.. 

    I guess your cats aren’t going to die from eating if for 6 months, but it probably will do more harm than good.. 

    Try watching Dr. Karen Becker’s (licensed veterinarian) video on how to choose pet food and what to look for in the ingredients.. According to her, corn is what NOT to look for.. I know you can’t base this solely off what one veterinarian says, but to me, she seems very well educated and after watching most of her videos I think we can all depend on her.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTWHxvjI_as&feature=player_embedded 

  • Shawna

    LOL!!  Totally get that.  My hubby can eat absolutely anything and not gain but if I look at bread I pack a 1/2 on somewhere..  The injustice of it all :) ….

    I foster and have had a lot of over weight dogs come in.  The last is a Papillon that came in at 29 pounds — should weigh about 12.  She is now down to 14 pounds.  Lost the weight and gained muscle on a high protein, commercial raw diet — without excersize.  Vet thought she might have a heart attack and then when she was in a better condition there was snow on the ground.

    Also wanted to mention that the canned weight loss foods are always going to be better then the kibbled foods (at least all I have seen).  You’re kinda comparing apples to oranges (a canned cat food to a kibbled dog food).

    Congrats on the healthier weight kitty :)

  • John

    Well….. if your a crazy hippie than shoot, what the heck….. you can call us a****s anytime. NOT. Have a little respect.And you shall then get a little in return. Peace babe! 

  • Sarott

    I almost don’t even want to admit I’m a crazy hippy like the rest of you because that’s besides the point but my cats regularly eat Blue dry and canned food from Whole Foods (the brand escapes me).  One is thin, and one started to get overweight.  They’re equally active and playful but one just happened to put on weight easier than the other.  Kind of like humans. 

  • Shawna

    People free feed canned food. BUT, it wasn’t the canned r/d that caused the cat to get fat. You don’t mention what you fed before the r/d.

    Dr. Karen Becker writes about fiber in weight loss foods like Hills (I understand your cat has lost weight – but again — at what expense)

    “Too much fiber can block absorption of necessary nutrients into the small intestine. Excess fiber can create a barrier which prevents antioxidants, vitamins and trace minerals from being absorbed into your pet’s GI tract.

    While fiber may make your dog or cat feel temporarily full, if it’s displacing protein in the diet, your pet will remain under nourished at the all-important cellular level. A chronic deficiency of nutrients delivered to the cells of your pet’s body can result in feelings of constant hunger. This is a sign your carnivorous dog or cat isn’t getting sufficient protein to adequately sustain his biology.

    Overweight pets fed high fiber diets marketed as ‘low fat’ or ‘weight loss’ often end up gaining rather than losing weight. They are constantly hungry due to a deficiency of protein, and their misinformed owners try to help by feeding larger and larger amounts of high fiber foods. It’s a vicious cycle in which a dog or cat is overfed and overweight, but under nourished.”

  • John

    Sarott…

    I hope your right. Best of luck. To your cat!

  • Marie

    Sarott, maybe you should look at your original post and then see who decided to first act like an a-hole.

  • Sarott

    Oh yes, I’m the one who needs to lighten up.  It’s pretty much embarassing how much I love my kitty babes but let’s get real here.  No one is going to get hurt from eating Hill’s for 6 months.  LIGHTEN UP

  • John

    Sarott….

    Do you kiss your mama with that mouth?
    Lighten up some, they love there pets is all.

  • Sarott

    how on earth would I be “free feeding” my cats canned r/d?

  • Shawna

    Sarott ~~ this food does help a cat loose weight but at what expense?  It is a proven scientific fact that “high protein” diets, ”species appropriate diets” are better for weight loss then these high carb prescription diets. 

    Healthy cats wouldn’t get fat in the first place if they were eating species appropriate foods and not free fed.

  • Marie

    I’ve had an overweight cat lose weight on Blue Wilderness, a five-star, meat laden, highly biologically appropriate food. And I know he felt less hungry in the process.
     
    I don’t understand why people feel the need to force cats (and dogs!) into eating plants…

  • Sarott

    as a previous commenter mentioned, it’s a TEMPORARY diet you crazy hippies.  stop being such self-rightous know-it-alls.  people have cats that live to be 20 years old eating friskies.  that’s not to say you shouldn’t feed you pet a quality food, just stop being such aholes about it.

  • LabsRawesome

    Yeah, Marie. You gotta love it when people think that corn is a better ingredient than meat!

  • Marie

    Don’t you mean “corn = diabetes” ? At least for a cat. Weight loss isn’t the only factor in preventing diabetes. If you continue to feed this grain-heavy food to your cat, he’ll likely get it anyway…

  • LabsRawesome

    Sarott, your cat is an obligate carnivore, this food doesn’t even contain any real meat. Unless you are counting by-product meal, and oh the “chicken liver flavor”.               How many fat wild cats, or feral cats have you seen? NONE because they eat meat. Not carb laden kibble.

  • Marie

    Hey, if you don’t want your obligate carnivore to eat meat, that’s your call.  Incidentally, I got a diabetic cat to lose weight by feeding him Blue Wilderness, a five-star food with those pesky good ingredients you seem not to care about. I’ll bet that my cat is much happier with real nutrition.

  • Sarott

    Oh blah blah blah “look at the ingredients” yadda yadda.  This is a prescription diet for weight loss.  I put my cat on the feline canned r/d two months ago and she’s finally getting a little waist back.  Now she won’t get diabetes.  Hmm…corn vs. diabetes?  Tough call.

  • jrzgrl

    R/D is supposed to be a short term diet for weight loss, R/D stand for reducing diet. Why any vet would prescribe this for any type of intestinal issues is beyond me. I/D is prescribed for dogs having digestive problems. Most of the prescription diets dog foods are for short term only and have never been meant to be a dogs mainstay diet.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Wow Sandy, that sounds awful! Do let me know if you find it. I have the same problem. I don’t save links to everything I read, then can’t re-find them when I want them. :-}

  • sandy

    Sometime ago, I can’t find it, but there was an article/link posted about someone posing as a vet? who made dog food with wheat or other carbs, and the dog died and was necropsied at a vet school or other, and it showed that it was unable to absorb nutrients. I wish I could find this link again.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Let me amend that, “animal based protein.” plant based protein is not synthesized the same.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Toxed2loss Toxed2loss

    Veterinarians do not by fault know more than ‘you’ do. They take very little animal nutrition in vet school. Not even all animal nutritionists do. It depends wether they just memorize what the pet food industry funded programs teach or they follow the science. Many vets and animal nutritionists are now speaking out about the scientific fact that dogs don’t need starchy carbs, like corn, wheat, malt, white rice, etc. they need 49% meat based protein and 44% fat. This food doesn’t come close. Hence the 2 stars. Not enough protein for “optimal” health.

  • Kourtney

    Has any one of you been to the Hills Science Diet plant? It is the most amazing place on earth and the quality of the ingredients used in the food is better than what you are eating! No doubt you all believe you are educated but your veterinarian knows more than you do so please listen to them and next time you are in Kansas take a tour of the Hill’s facility. This will put Science Diet ahead of all other food.

  • sandy

    Cindy,

    Did your vet do any liver or pancreas labs? Discuss the use of RX enzymes to help with digestion? Just curious. Someone on this site knows a dog that takes RX enzymes due to a medical condition where it doesn’t produce any.

  • Cindy Lightsey

    Just wanted to say that I have a 18 month old Wire Hair Fox Terrier that was close to death at the age of 4 months due to her inability to digest her food. I tried Taste of the Wild, Blue Buffalo Puppy Food, IAMS puppy, and one other, can’t remember the name right off hand (very pricey though for a small bag of puppy food) and my puppy was getting worse. She either vomited up or had runny stools to the point where she couldn’t hold her bowels to get out the door. I spent a considerable amount of time cleaning up puke and poo every day, even in her crate. Took her to two different vets, she had no parasites, blood work came back fine except she was low in iron (wonder why, she couldn’t keep anything down or in long enough to get any nutrition from it). So I was at the point of having my puppy put down as she was a skeleton by this point (I spent well over 1500. on tests at this point) and she wasn’t any better, was getting worse. She was on several prescriptions to control her loose stools, one to control her vomiting, and I was at my wit’s end. Annie was one sick puppy. Finally as a last resort, I gave away all the dog food and switched her to Hill’s Science Diet I/D prescription.

    I too believed that all corn was bad, that the dog food was just being sold by the vet so they could make money, etc.

    Well, Little Annie is now at 18 lbs. and 18 months old and plays, has no bowel or vomiting issues and is thriving. It took three weeks to get her on her paws and eating as she should, now she is blooming. Her coat is gorgeous, she is playful and full and I do mean FULL of energy, just like a terrier should be. She chases her ball and goes hiking with me, has learned a huge amount of verbal commands and if the dog food were 100.00 a bag, I would gladly pay it. It costs me slightly more than Blue Buffalo or Taste of the Wild, but Annie can eat it and not throw up or poo all over the house. She is finally housebroken and never makes a mistake in the house in that regard. To go from a lifeless, limp dishrag of a puppy to her bouncy self is nothing short of a miracle. I am so thankful that my vet suggested the food. To this day, Annie cannot eat any table food (including raw meat), nor can she have treats of any sort including those with “meat” in them.

    I have two other dogs that eat Taste of the Wild and do fine, but Annie is doing fine on her Science Diet prescription food and that is good enough for me.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Sandy… You have mentioning here some of my favorite low fat dog foods. It’s not so easy to find low fat products that are also high in protein (i.e. low fat and also 4 or 5-stars, too). If you come across any others, please let me know. I’d like to do a short article about low fat foods and add a few good candidates to the end of the list. Just post ‘em when you find ‘em. Thanks again for your help.

  • sandy

    Suzy,

    Core Reduced Fat, Blue Buffalo Wilderness Healthy Weight, and Amicus Senior/Weight Management (all life stages) might work for you.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Suzy… Unfortunately, due to the biological uniqueness of each pet, I don’t rate the dog foods on this website based upon expected results. They’re based upon a recipe’s apparent meat content and ingredient quality only. You may wish to check back for a possible response from one of our other readers. Wish I could be more help.

  • Suzy

    I was just told my 3 year old terrier mix has very high triglycerides. All of his organs are fine, just high cholesterol and very high triglycerides. The vet suggested R/d for weight reduction and to help lower the numbers. I have read the comments on this web site and I am confused. Do I buy the R/d? I have been feeding my dog Merrick and Evangers, both low in fat. We definitely need to exercise more. What should I do? I want him to lead a long and healthy life.

  • ERIN

    Thanks to everyone who posted reviews here it was very helpful to read all the reviews of this dog food. I have only one suggestion, can people please learn the proper of usage of “lose” as in “lose weight” and “loose” as in “the button was loose” it’s in several reviews posted here and it can have a negative affect on the credibilty of the reviewer.

  • melissa

    IMO,. there is no reason for any pet to have to have a prescription food to loose weight. Just cut back the portion size they are eating and increase the excercise. Period…

  • Jonathan

    Elizabeth, what makes me inexorably sad is that you, a bright young mind, are becoming just another product of the this ridiculous, self-serving system that pats itself on the back for healing dogs they helped make sick in the first place. Please do YOUR OWN research before you go accepting what is being “taught” to you. Where, in evolutionary history does a dog eat corn? Or corn gluten meal? Or soybeans?

  • Bob K

    Elizabeth – Did you read the detailed review above? The first 2 ingredients are corn. I thought corn is what we feed cattle and pigs to fatten them up? If your vet sell this, why is it so expensive. Customers are charged a premium for a 2 star food just because a vet sells it? How come?

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Elizabeth… It appears you’ve probably not spent much time here. Nowhere in over 500 pages of this website do I ever claim a dog is a carnivore. Every review is based upon my article, “Are Dogs Carnivores… or Omnivores?” which was posted over 2 years ago.

    Based upon the science presented in that article, it’s the overriding philosophy of this website that dogs are omnivores with an undeniable carnivorous bias.

    For that reason, every review on this website is based upon that understanding.

    Rather than argue each of your points, I’d suggest you spend a little more time to see they’re all addressed in the more than 500 reviews and articles posted here.

    One more point. There may be another reason so many veterinarians support the same few brands of commercial dog foods (many we rate very poorly for reasons explained in each review).

    In legal and ethical terms, that reason can be considered “a conflict of interest”.

    This flawed concept is the same as if your medical doctor prescribes a specific medicine that’s only available for purchase in the pharmacy he happens to own in his waiting room.

    Using a powerful system of incentives and profit, many vets are influenced (either during professional training or in practice) to promote only a few pet food companies. And that’s OK.

    As long as that truth is duly disclosed and understood.

    For proof, I refer you to this recent comment posted on our review of Hill’s Prescription Diet I/D Canine formula by a practicing veterinarian…

    Hi Mike,

    I am a veterinarian. Though I see that you are not, I share your views regarding the low quality ingredients in Hills’ foods. This was not always the case. Once upon a time, they were a great, much smaller company. However, in veterinary school most of our nutrition education comes from these big companies who “brainwash” us and schmooze us by offering free food for reading their “educational material” and taking quizzes. I think what you have done here is a good thing in trying to make people more aware of these ingredients. I personally try not to recommend any food that I would not feed to my own pets and this includes all of Hill’s diets and most of the other highly commercialized brands. Most holistic veterinarians have taken extra time to become more knowledgeably about food since what an animal eats can have a tremendous impact on their health, much the same as humans.

    Elisa Katz, DVM

    There are hundreds of quality dog food companies and products out there. Not just three corporations. And many of them deserve at least some serious consideration by pet owners. Therefore, in complete contrast to your closing remark, I offer the following commonsense advice:

    In a free and diverse economy as large as ours, if nearly every veterinarian in your area recommends (and profits from the sale of) the same dog food, I’d question that recommendation.

  • Bob K

    Elizabeth – Absolutely – do the research. There is more to the equation, you need to learn about rendering plants, Animal grade and human grade foods, meals and much more. By products are not the meat scraps that the butcher throws out at your local food store or butcher shop. There is an extensive article on this website about are dogs carnivores. Most vets have minimal nutrition education and some is provided by the large dog food corporations. Why does your vet sell dog food? Does your family Dr. sell you food? Is your family Dr. a nutritionist or dietician? Is your vet a nutrition specialist? Please read the many articles on this website and food evaluations then make your own decision. I suspect your eyes will be opened a little. What is the proper mix of protein carbs and fats? Where should the proteins come from?

  • Elizabeth

    While I may not be an expert yet, I’m on my way there, and as a Pre-Vet major who is learning about animal nutrition, I got a small bone to pick with the websites review. The one obvious thing people seem to either forget, or just dont know, is that dogs are NOT true carnivores. They do need plants or vegetation in their diet. Only cats and those in the mink/weasel family are true carnivores. Also, in the wild I highly doubt the animals who have made a kill only go for the “choice cuts”. They go for the parts that will give the most energy and carbs – the parts we label “by-products”. Now I realize domestic dogs dont have that need for all that energy, but still what we consider “un-fit for human consumption” is merely stuff we find gross. You go to other parts of the world and they eat it just fine, as do animals all over the world. Your dog probably doesnt mind that its not eating the breast meat. The soybean meals and whatnot are needed by your dog, they’re not just cheap “stuff” they throw in cause they can. The plant fiber and meal are necessary. So I understand if you’ve actually tried it and THEN decide you don’t like it, but dont bash it cause some website (who seems to be a little under-educated on the K9′s dietary needs) says its “bad”. Do the research on your own and ask your vet. I work for a vet and thats pretty much all they sell and what MY vet feeds to his animals. So do plenty of research before choosing a food, but make sure its credible. If a bunch of websites AND your vet say its not so great, then Id trust that. If one or a few websites say its bad but almsot every vet in my area sells only that brand, I wouldn’t trust the website..

  • Meagan

    So I know this is for dogs, but I recently took my cat to the vet for his shots. He is overweight (from the shelter he was at) i’ve only had him for 5.5 months. He’s lost 2#! Anyway I asked my vet whether I need to feed him less and she said no to actually give him more than what I have been feeding him. I told her the brand I am feeding(BB Spa Weight Control) She told me this would give him struvite urinary stones. She said to feed him SD Perscription R/D, because he would need less and remain full the whole day. I am sad to say that I did not tell her I would never buy SD because of the crap ingredients in it. The receptionist who checked me out asked if I was buying a bag and I said no I just bought a new bag of his other food. Really wish they would read the ingredients in the bag and not just think pf the $$ in selling it.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Joan… As it is with humans, weight management can involve controlling both calories and carbohydrates. Think Atkins for dogs. In most cases, kibbles are severely overweighted in carbohydrates. And even though it may say “whole grain corn” on the label, that corn is always first ground and then cooked before it is served in kibble. So, dog food carbs are nearly always considered highly refined. And refined carbs typically have a high glycemic index. This means they tend to raise insulin, a hormone that not only regulates blood sugar but also induces the body (dog and human) to store fat.

    Most likely, you’re simply overfeeding your dog (and making it worse by making those calories high in refined carbs, too). Please see our FAQ page. Look for the topic, “Weight Loss for Dogs”. And look at the ME energy (calorie) content of any 4 or 5-star food you choose. Some have double the calories per cup of others. Compute and measure for yourself.

  • Joan

    Mike-
    I have an almost 7 year old golden retreiver who has always been considered overweight. In the last year, despite the fact that she had an almost daily 2 mile walk, she gained 12 lbs. My vet analyzed the amount of food that I was feeding her, only to tell me that I was starving her. She was only getting 700 calories a day, and needed a minimum of 1100. She was put on Hill’s WD, four cups a day. I was not able to walk her, because she was limping, possibly due to her weight. After being on the WD for 2 months she gained 7lbs!!! Her thyroid test was normal and today she had abdominal xrays to be sure she does not have a tumor, and she does not. The vet has now put her on RD, and I am going to ease back into walking. After reading about this food, I don’t know what to do…how does a dog who was walked regularly and starving gain weight??? And how does a dog on WD gain weight???? I have no idea what to do, any suggestions?

  • Noelle

    Cliff notes of the problem: 8 year old dachsie with chronic pancreatitis. Many flare-ups. Slightly overweight. I am VERY diligent about feeding good, lean food. I cook for all six of my ‘kids’ (95% lean beef, chicken breasts, carrots, green beans, peas, a bit of organic short grain brown rice, a bit of organic low sodium broth) I supplement with high quality dry (5star BlueBuffalo) just in case I am missing some nutritional goodie from my ‘recipes’.

    So, the vet wants to try R/D to try and cut down on his attacks. I comply. (sidenote: On the day I started him on the R/D, Jeau had been feeling better than he has in months…lots of energy, not laying down immediately, eyes clear and sparkly, normal!) Opening the bag made me sick. It has that strong, rank, cheap dog-food smell. After ONE meal, my dog went into a pancreatitis attack. After TWO meals of it, he went into a near acute attack. No rocket science here. The food was the cause. I found THIS website and actually read the ingredients. SHOCK. I have never fed my dogs corn or any of those other subpar ingredients. Sadness that my vet sells it and people dont question something a vet gives them. Count me in that group. Temporarily! I let him know my thoughts on Hills R/D !

    So, I grabbed a can of Jeau’s I/D that he eats occasionally (FYI – I/D is the Gastrointestinal food…for sensitive tums) The sixth ingredient is WHOLE GRAIN CORN. Yeah, THAT’s a good choice for a sensitive system. NOT!

    Not sure of the connection between corn, gluten, and pancreatitis….but there IS one!

  • Jonathan

    I understand… I can too!

  • Lindsay

    point taken jonathan… sometimes i get a bit carried away :/

  • Jonathan

    Yikes! Calm down, Lindsay!

    You know I agree with most of what you are saying, but people probably aren’t going to listen to your good information if you call them lazy, ignorant, and idiot. :-/

    They will put on the “defense” brakes and throw dog nutrition into their “food Nazi” category along with organic food and vegetarians.

    We want to help them change their minds, not chase them off! ;-)

  • Lindsay

    Kim your an idiot. Dogs NEED PROTEIN! Not carrots!!!! Give them a turkey neck, back, raw bones, or some chicken livers you moron! And Denise your story brought tears to my eyes! I hope Coleen recovers!

  • Lindsay

    Those of you who think it is healthy for your dog to “dramatically” lose 20 lbs in a months time are completely ignorant and misinformed!!!! Think for a Devon why this food is causing them to loose weight…. Because it contains indigestible fillers with no nutritional value whatsoever…. My blood literally boiled when I read these comments you are starving your dog!!!!! Do you honestly think it’s healthy for any living organism to drop that much weight in a small amour of time? And if course we fall for it because we are lazy and want to put our dogs on a low cal diet because we don’t want to take the time to hue them the exercise they need. We can’t forget that while dogs are our “best friends” they come from a long liniage of “working” and 90% of them have a real purpose in life. So if you idiots want to continue feeding your dogs cotton balls because your too lazy to get up and take them for a run than you should be ashamed of yourselves. Oh and btw I’m in vet. School and I can tell you that your vet doesn’tknow diddly about nutrition.
    Thank you for your attention.

  • Jonathan

    Yeah, they are making a killing on the stuff. Plus, the only “training” most vets get in dog and cat nutrition is continuing education classes (read “vacation”) that Hill’s sends them on, all expenses paid, and tells them over their glasses of wine and free gifts, why their pet food is nutritionally complete! It’s an industry that gets to pat itself on the back. And I think, for the most part, many vets just believe the hype and never do their own research (like you are obviously doing!) and just sell Science Diet thinking it really is the best stuff. It’s unfortunate.

  • Brenda Hudson

    I am baffled at why veternarian’s do not seem to be educated with regards to what products contain high quality ingredients. I have visited 3 vets in the past year and all 3 of them sell Hills Prescription along with several others that are 1-2 stars. I just don’t get it?! Other than perhaps they are making a bundle on selling this food.

  • Denise

    Hi – My King Charles Cavalier is overweight. July 31, 2010, I put her on r/d per my vet. Her name is Colleen, she weighed 27 pounds – too much!! Today she weighs 23 pounds and is VERY UNHEALTHY! Gradually, Colleen started to snub the r/d. This is a dog that would eat ANYTHING! So we thought, well, maybe it’s too bland and started adding a little of her once loved dog food. She ate a little, but still, slowly she went downhill. Started to gain a lot of weight – how was this possible? It was not weight, but she became bloated and she stopped eating. As of yesterday, 10/13/10, we found blood in her stool and took her to our Vet. Our Vet said she needed to be seen by a specialist. We then took her to a specialist. I just received the blood work back and her protein levels are very low which can cause inflammation. The Vet now has to do an ultrasound on her belly tomorrow. The Vet is saying that the signs and symptoms are pointing to Chronic Hepititus Ascites. From what I can tell, it seems as though the r/d did not provide my dog with the nutrients she needs. I was trying to help her by loosing the weight for a better quality of life, and yet, I think I’ve been hurting her by putting her on this r/d. I hope to God she can be fixed. Anyone have similar problems, please let me know. Thank You.

    A Very Worried Mom

  • Kim

    PS: After reading through all the comments here – I have one bit of advise for those with overweight dogs: Walk them. Exercise them. MOVE them. You gave your dog R/D, and they didn’t lose weight?? I can’t believe that. My dog has lost over 15 lbs in just 2 months on R/D.. he walks daily, and plays “hard” with our other border collie several times a day. But even without exercise – he lost weight DRAMATICALLY. The first few weeks, he was listless, had difficulty going farther than a block or two without becoming fatigued.. but he lost weight quickly (6 lbs in the first 2 weeks). I will be GLAD to provide our veterinary documents as proof. When the weight began falling off, Murphy became more active – and then the weight really began coming off. Murphy is a rescue whose “insides” were ravaged by parasites as a puppy. He was diagnosed with IBD, had constant bouts of diarrhea, and never had normal stools — UNTIL — we placed him on S.D. R/D. I was never a S.D. fan until now… I am reformed. :) Want your dog to get extra nutrients? Save yourself a LOT of money and add carrots, veggies, and fruit to their regular dog food. One last tidbit about Wellness: I was a Wellness fan through & through until I noticed one day that the food looked and smelled different. I contacted them, and their response was “well sometimes our ingredients come from different suppliers”.. when I pushed them for a better reply, they asked me for my phone number and said they preferred to talk to me in person… clearly they didn’t want anything in writing. They admitted their ingredients changed without notice from time to time, as well – their recipe changed… AND.. they were bought out by another company. So much for Wellness. :o (

  • http://voices4animals.com Kim

    Ridiculous to label this food as anything less than outstanding! The ingredients, while not “ideal” for healthy, active, muscular, performance dogs (persay), are MEDICALLY IDEAL for dogs who suffer from weight issues. My border collie was bitten by a tick in FEBRUARY (when it was below freezing) in northern NY.. and contracted Lyme Disease. He easily becomes fatigued, and gradually put on a lot of weight – over 20 lbs. We struggled finding a low cal/low fat food that was “high quality” – and have been lulled into believing meat needed to be 1st ingredient, no grains, etc. We were SO wrong. Our dog was on Taste of the Wild, Wilderness, and all sorts of “high end” foods – and although his coat looked great, he was fat and getting fatter… and his stool looked small and ribbon-like. He strained to “go” and had a lot of intestinal issues. I avoided “corn” based foods like the plague, because of sights like this.
    We were SO wrong..

    Hills R/D with Chicken has been the BEST move we made! Thanks to our vet who was giving it to her lab (also overweight) – we learned that all this hogwash over “corn” in food was unfortunate, because there are dogs that do BETTER on such a diet.

    So far, our dog has lost 15 lbs in his 2 months on the food, and we couldn’t be more pleased! His coat is shiny and healthy, he is SO much more active and happy now, and his stool is SOLID AND FIRM and “normal”!!!!!!

    We cannot recommend this food highly enough! We top it with a couple of tablespoons of a “yummy” canned food for fun.. but he’d eat this up without it.

    The food smells WONDERFUL and fresh — my dog has never turned his nose up to it, and our other dog tries to sneak a bite. :)

    Please do not disregard this food because of “corn” or other ingredients. The bottom line is my dog’s life has been EXTENDED because of this food – and he is now healthy and happy. Worth every penny!!!!

  • yani

    Thanks for the quick comment. I went to the vet – same one who rec Hills haha and he said to avoid high protein if the dog isnt active. So went with that info – just thought he might be wrong about the food cause of the sponsor thing – but didnt think he would mislead with protein as well. I have so far been looking to replace it with Canidae Platinum or California Natural though the latter has barely any fiber so not sure. But open to any suggestions on what range would be appropriate to find for protein to fat to carb ratio. And is the protein advice for non active dogs true or should I brush that aside?

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Yani… Unfortunately, since I’m not a veterinarian, it would be misleading and inappropriate for me to assure you a particular dog food would deliver the health results you’re looking for.

    In any case, the only thing that concerns me about your story is your avoidance of what many (including me) believe to be the best way to avoid diabetes and maintain good health. A high protein, moderate fat and LOW carbohydrate diet. Many of our 4 and 5-star foods meet these requirements. I am not a big fan of typical canine weight control dog foods as they are designed around the opposite of what makes logical sense.

    Why not select a quality high protein/moderate fat/low carb dog food and simply feed an amount slightly BELOW your dog’s metabolic energy requirements (use our dog food calculator and/or the package instructions for a starting point). Hope this helps.

  • Yani

    Hey Mike,
    My parents always had larger dogs and figured they are similar to smaller breeds. After being away from home for 5 years I return to see the small/mid size breed dog had become an obese one. He is at 36 pounds. For more than 2 months now I have cut his food portion drastically to even less than energy requirements – giving him only 1 1/4 cup of kibble. I give him (for the last 2 months) Chicken Soup for the dog lovers soul adult. I had him on the lighter formula but his stomach acted up with that. Switched to the normal one with just a low amount. Ironically he has gained weight rather than lost it even with going for walks. At this point his metabolism im sure is screwed up. Had him get tested for a thyroid issue and came negative with the vet saying urgent diet concern. He recommended as always – hills prescription diet r/d. I know how the Hills diet works with vets and the ingredient list is terrible. But at this point I am at a loss. Chicken Soup was even lower in calories than other lighter foods. The protein wasnt too high like others as well since he is in no way an active dog.

    Does anyone on here have advice on what kibble I should give him or canned food? I am asking for kibble or canned because i am away from the house and its the parents who take care of him. Need something they dont need to worry about much. I mean at this point im at the ‘oh might as well get hills diet.’

    Again, not an active dog at all, weighs 36 pounds, and has been gaining weight for the last 2-3 months with 1 1/4 of chicken soup regular formula – which already has low protein and low calories and not that much fat and good fiber amount and is far less than what he should be getting. At a loss. He is 5 years old and a few months. With this breeds heart issues and ease of getting diabetes, i could really use the help. I know not all food applies to every dog but anything working from what I have attempted so far would be great.

    Thanks

  • http://www.kellyecarter.com Kelly

    I agree with your assessment of r/d dry. I followed two vets’ recommendations and had my Chihuahua on this food for a couple of years and not only did she not lose weight but her weight kept increasing. I switched to other dry dog foods for another year and she still continued to gain weight. In July I put her on r/d canned food and she’s already dropped two pounds. She can still lose another pound. I had her on dry dog food for all of her nine years but will keep her on r/d canned.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Glen… Finding a dog food that meets all your needs can be a challenge. Many believe that omega 3-fatty (essential) oils support healthy skin and coat. Unfortunately, the most common source of omega-3s would be in fish oils. But your dog is allergic to that item.

    However, flax seed is also rich in the same omega-3 fatty acids. So, try looking for a dog food that contains flax seed or flax seed meal and meets all your other requirements. But without fish products, of course. Hope this helps.

  • Glen

    Hey Mike,

    After our recent adoption of a sheltered pit bull and his refusal to eat his food I’ve been reading about dog food. Our other dog (chihuahua/pug) has been on this Hill’s R/D by the vet’s recommendation because of weight gain. We walk her 20 minutes once/twice daily. She is maintaining weight now, but is losing more hair than usual and she is definitely sensitive to fish/fish oil as she gets sick. It seems most quality dog food is using fish as an ingredient, and the only quality dry food I found without fish, Fromm 4 Star Duck/Potato, is not available locally. Do you know of any other dry food that meets her needs?

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Betty… There are a number of 4 and 5-star dog foods on the market that feature low glycemic index (ideal for dogs with diabetes). We’re planning to publish a list of these foods when we wrap-up our research later this Fall. So, be sure to check back then.

    By the way, in general, and because they are in reality “bakery” products, most kibbles feature a higher glycemic index than canned foods. But not always.

    Until we post more information, avoid the foods with the highest carb readings. Hill’s R/D is very typical in carb levels. And be sure your vet agrees with this recommendation.

    Hope this helps.

  • Betty Owens

    Sorry for wasting your time. I went back and did as you suggested in an early post.
    Thanks

  • Betty Owens

    I have a diabetic dog. At the present time and for the last four years he has eaten R/D. I tried switching him in the beginning because of the ingredients listed on the package with no success. He eats a combination dry and canned both R/D. Is there any other higher quality high fiber food? His insulin is Lantus which I have often thought of switching also due to the high cost (almost $100 a vial and he uses one vial a month). But it works well with our life style because of its duration. I didn’t like the ingredients in the beginning and after looking at the ratings, I now like it even less. I know anything you may suggest is only a suggestion and would test any new food slowly to see how it affects his glucose level and take all responsibility and would also check with my vet before proceeding with a switch.
    Thanks
    Betty Owens

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Janell… I can’t advise you about choosing vets. But it does look to me like you’ve chosen a dog food made with better quality ingredients. And a better value, too.

  • Janell

    My 1 year old daschund was hospitalized for vomiting and before examining her my vet jumped to the conclusion that it was the food I was feeding her, he gave me a lecture on all dogs should be given top quality foods and what I was feeding her was basically mcdonalds for dogs. After examining her we found she had parasite in her stomach causing the vomiting, but the vet still jumped on the science diet soap box and perscribed her the hills perscription diet r/d. I feed both my dogs kirkland which may not be the best dog food but is much better quality than the hills anything. My vet just kept pointing to the cost telling me i was getting what I paid for, do vets know nothing about nutrition? Should I switch vets since mine obviously jsut wants to sell the hills products in the waiting room instead of help my dog?

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Ed… thanks for sharing your experience. You certainly did the right thing by discussing your choice with your vet. In any case, I hope your friend is beginning to recover from this painful condition.

  • Ed Pickup

    Dear Mike,

    Like many other fools, I trusted my veterinarian to recommend a good food for my older Cairn terrier with pancreatitis. She sold me r/d (canned.) After reading your site and others, I transitioned her to Innova Senior (canned) and am working on getting her over to Wellness Core Reduced Fat (dry), as it is more convenient than canned.

    Today, because of another flare-up of the pancreatitis, I went back to the vet and showed her the Innova Senior Can (with no byproducts and no cellulose). After reading the can, the vet got all defensive and had the nerve to tell me that “objectively speaking” the Hills was an “excellent reputable food,” that pork by-products were an excellent protein source” and that cellulose is a perfectly acceptable fiber source. I was floored, and felt like asking her “Well then, why don’t you just enjoy a can for lunch?” It was as close as I have ever been to having a fight with a veterinarian.

    So, I e-mailed Hills asking them to justify the use of pork byproducts, cellulose, soy mill run, etc. in a dog food designed to help sick dogs and which costs about $2.50 a can.

    Is there no-one in veterinary schools paying attention to the ingredients? Are dog food manufacturers who use these controversial and inferior ingredients just heartless? Are they at all interested in doing the right thing?

    All this is by way of thanking you and the other concerned folks who take the time to help us navigate the confusing dog food world.

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com Mike Sagman

    Hi Fran… thanks for the excellent question. Just about every dog food company makes a weight management product… but (as you’d expect) all are not equal.

    To narrow your choices, click on the menu tab at the top of our website called “Tag Cloud”. Then click on the phrase “Weight Management”. This will present a list of brands reviewed on our website that contain at least one weight loss dog food.

    As you click on each, remember these are brands… and not the specific products made by those companies. Click on each review until you find 3, 4, or 5 star brands and then look for the name of the weight loss product in the list near the top of each review.

    This should give you lots of choices. Hope this helps.

  • FRAN SCIMECA

    IF YOU DON’T RECOMMEND HILLS DIET R/D FOR DOGS.
    WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND. PLEASE ADVISE WHAT FOOD IS BETTER