[Mom2Cavs]

Yes, it’s Jan lol. I didn’t use it for long, but the dogs did fine on it and liked it. The nuggets were smaller than NV or Primal. It does have some rice bran in it, or did when I used it, and that seems strange for a raw food imho. It came in a bigger bag and if I remember was cheaper in the long run than the others. My vet, who carries it, actually feeds his Goldens NV Prairie and Steve’s. I didn’t use it often because my vet is 45-50 mins. from home and I only bought it if I was going there. I can get Primal and NV closer to home. With all that said, I don’t use regular raw anymore. I like the freeze dried because my daughter and husband (rarely) can help out with feeding because they are more comfortable using the FD. I add water to it and rehydrate it. I tried using The Honest Kitchen and Grandma Lucy’s but the dogs prefer the Primal and Stella & Chewy’s much more. I’m gonna pick up some Vital Essentials today to add to the mix, though it seems to be the most expensive of all.

[InkedMarie]

hi Mom2Cavs (is it Jan??)
thank you for responding! It turns out the in state place that carried Answers does not any longer so that is not an option. My dogs didn’t like the NV and Primal is more costly than Darwins and I’d have to drive over an hour, one way, to pick it up.
What can you tell me about Steve’s?

[Mom2Cavs]

I’ve fed Primal and NV, and also Steve’s Real Food. My vet carries NV and Steve’s. I like Primal and Steve’s better than NV. Currently, though, I’m using the Freeze Dried versions of Primal, NV (sometimes when I can find it), and Stella & Chewy’s. I know it’s not as good as the regular raw, but it’s doable in this household and I like it alot, lol.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’m sorry to hear about your Cav. Sadly, I just lost my 12 year old Blenheim girl, Stella, to SM. 🙁 I think that feeding an all can diet, as long as the canned food is labeled “complete and balanced” and not for supplemental feeding only, is perfectly fine. In fact, it’s really a lot better than feeding a total dry diet. It’s a little closer to being a species appropriate diet, at least. I feel most people don’t use canned, and use dry, simply because it can be cost prohibitive to use, especially with multiple dog households. If you can afford it, it really is better than dry. Some people also feed a raw diet. I prefer premade raw. There are lots of good brands to choose from. If raw is not for you, then there are the freeze dried formulas and rehydrate them. This is what I’m using now, although I do feed kibble and canned with them. I’m using Stella & Chewy’s, Primal, and have some Vital Essentials coming. Canned food contains moisture, which is also great for the dog. Again, I’m sorry your pup is experiencing this. Our breed, as a whole, is burdened with these illnesses and it’s so sad. If I were you, I’d pick some 4-5 star grain free canned food and contact the companies to see what the sodium level is in them and go from there. I have 2 other Cavs at home, both females….Hazel (Black & Tan) and Laverne (Ruby). Hazel has a grade 2 murmur, but so far, Laverne is fine. Actually they’re both doing very well, atm. They both share the same birthday, lol, and Hazel will be 6 this August and Laverne will be 8. Good luck to you with your little one!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi crazy4cats –

Long term supplementation with probiotics and enzymes is very safe and healthy, in fact many posters here supplement their healthy dogs’ diet with probiotics and enzymes. My dogs get 1/2 c. kefir every other day and green tripe almost daily (loaded with naturally occurring probiotics and enzymes). The Vetri Probiotic BD looks okay but it only has 3 strains of probiotics – I’d personally look for something with more strains. NWC Natural’s makes a digestive supplement for dogs called Total Biotics with 14 strains of probiotics, prebiotics and enzymes. Mercola also sells a good probiotic supplement with 14 strains and Garden of Life Primal Defense has 12 strains. A dog’s natural diet (raw prey) would naturally contain probiotics and enzymes so when feeding a processed kibble diet it’s good to add supplemental enzymes and probiotics. DGL is deglycyrrhizinated licorice and is often used by holistic vets to help heal the lining of the digestive tract. I’d assume this would only be need while your dog is healing and wouldn’t be supplemented long term, but you can talk to your vet about it.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi crazy4cats –

Supplementing with pre and probiotics long term is fine and actually very healthy. Many posters here supplement with probiotics daily or at least a few times a week for their healthy dogs. My dogs get 1/3 c. kefir every other day and raw green tripe almost daily (both are loaded with naturally occuring probiotics). DGL (deglycyrrhizinated licorice) is often prescribed by holistic vets and is used to help heal the lining of the digestive tract. DGL is probably something you’d just want to use while your dog is healing and not something you’d continue long term, talk to your vet though. The Vetri-Probiotic BD looks okay, but it only contains 3 strains of probiotics – you could do better imo. I’d check out Total Biotics is has 14 strains of probiotics plus enzymes and prebiotics, Mercola’s has a 14 strain probiotic and they also sell a separate enzyme supplement (http://probiotics.mercola.com/probiotics-for-pets.html) and Garden of Life Primal Defense has 12 strains (http://www.gardenoflife.com/Products-for-Life/Digestive-Health/Primal-Defense.aspx).

[Hound Dog Mom]

I don’t think it matters which protein you choose, just go with one he’s never eaten before. You can give treats, but it should be simple single ingredient with just the protein you’re feeding him. So say you go with goat, any treat you feed should be just goat nothing else. Just during the period of time that you’re trying to figure out what his food-triggers are (if there are any). If you’re feeding, say, a raw diet with goat and starting giving a biscuit that has chicken and carrot and sweet potato and peas then he has a reaction, you would have no way of knowing if the reaction was caused by the goat, the chicken, the carrots, the sweet potato or the peas – you know what I mean? So during the ingredient trial period simple is best. Once you get past the 2-3 month period and start re-introducing other foods and figure out which (if any) ingredients are triggering his actions you can buy treats with safe ingredients – but before you can do that you need to figure out which ingredients are safe. And as, as I said in my previous comments, I would strongly encourage a high quality pro-biotic supplement (Mercola’s and Garden of Life’s Primal Defense are two of the best) because, like Toxed just pointed out, a healthy gut is the foundation of immune health.

[Hound Dog Mom]

That’s too bad. Primal hasn’t started using HPP on all their raw have they? I know when I first started raw I used their mixes. I would order the bulk variety pack from the dogma and I noticed that the lamb, beef, buffalo and sardine (all non-HPP) always looked super fresh and pink, while the turkey and chicken (HPP) always were gray-ish and had a rind…

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve used Primal and NV raw. The last bag of Primal Rabbit had what looked like a “crust” all around the patty like breadcrust but on all sides and it felt a little spongy and when you broke the patty open, the “crust” and the insides were a different color! I think one of the NV was like that too but it’s been a while since I’ve used it but I remember I usually get their beef.

[InkedMarie]

HDM: do the bags of Primal say if they are HPP or not?

[Hound Dog Mom]

If I was going to go pre-made my top pics would be Answers, Aunt Jeni’s and the non-HPP Primal varieties.

[BryanV21]

Check out commercial raw foods, such as those made by Primal and Nature’s Variety. They offer a variety of different meats, are very low in carbs, and no grains, which makes them much easier for a dog to digest as they aren’t “set-up” to process carbs.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Weimlove –

Oftentimes when I fed my dogs more dense, weight-bearing bones from large ruminants (cows, buffalo, sheep, etc.) they threw up shards about 8-12 hours after chewing the bone. For this reason I now stick with raw meaty bones. There are two types of bones 1) Recreational bones – these are going to be your marrow bones, knuckle bones, etc. and will be from large animals like cows, buffalo and sheep. These bones are not completely consumable (meaning your dog shouldn’t be able to eat the entire bone) and don’t provide a whole lot of nutrition, they are more just for fun chewing pleasure. 2) Raw Meaty Bones (you’ll often see these referred to as “RMBs). RMBs are completely consumable (meaning your dog should be be able to eat the entire thing) and provide a lot of nutrition. RMBs typically include poultry bones (chicken necks, chicken backs, chicken feet, turkey necks, duck necks, etc.) but for some larger dogs that have more powerful jaws, non-weight bearing bones of large ruminants (such as pork or beef or lamb necks or rib bones) can be considered RMBs as well. I no longer give my dogs recreational bones because of the issue with puking up the shards (I believe that because the bones are so dense they aren’t highly digestible, which results in the puking) and because I’ve read several reports of dogs actually breaking teeth on them or wearing down their teeth over time. There’s also a chance that your dog may have puked after the bone due to high fat content. Recreational bones contain marrow and marrow is very high in fat, if your dog is just switching to a raw diet and isn’t accustomed to this it could have resulted in some stomach upset. I’d recommend getting some RMBs for your dog. Primal does sell some RMBs but you could likely get them for a lot cheaper at a butcher. I get chicken backs for $0.40/lb. and turkey necks for $0.60/lb.

[weimlove]

Shawna,
oops, I meant dehydrated. Thank you for all of you help. I have researched other dehydrated brands, and I also like the honest kitchen because of its lack of potatoe. Thanks for clarrifying that I dont need to add bone, I was concerned about the ratios of bone, organ, etc. I also think the commercial dog food are great, but can get a little pricey, For that reason I think I will go to a local butcher that other raw feeders use and get them to grind up the meat for me.

HDM,
Thank you for all of your help as well! You seem to be so educated with raw feeding, and I hope one day it comes as easy to me as it does to you! Yesterday, I fed Shadow (my weim) a raw lamb bone from Primal, and I added a bit of the Grandma Lucys to his Acana kibble to see how he likes it. He LOVED the raw lamb bone, and ate almost half of it. He also seemed to love the Grandma Lucys pre-mix, but at 1 AM he woke up and threw up. It wasnt alot. Most of it looked like the Grandma Lucys, but he did throw up a small peice of sharp bone. Is this common for a dogs first time eating a raw bone? Or was it the type of bone I bought?

[Alexandra]

Hi Dr. Mike,

I would be more inclined to call them dry. Having the moisture removed to me qualifies them as dry. I would even go so far to say that they aren’t even truly raw foods as they have been processed.

I guess if we keep analyzing, then where does that leave the HPP processed foods, Natures variety and Primal. I know not all of Primal’s are HPP, but that would be an additional process done to the food.

Raw frozen, by that are you meaning Darwin’s and Bravo, etc? I would say they are raw products, they retain their moisture, and aren’t exposed to heat. They would retain their optimal nutrition.

Maybe rate these foods separate from each other? A category for freeze dried, dehydrated, etc.

Given that these are all processed to some extent, are they truly raw? I know it’s splitting hairs, but Darwin’s adds vegetables, so that would be a process. Bravo and Primal also add them to certain lines. I guess, the bottom line is what the “accepted” definition of raw is. For me, it would be the moisture rich foods with the barest amount of processing.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi chynamae!

Are you interesting in homemade raw or homemade cooked?

I feed my three bloodhounds a homemade raw diet. It’s really pretty simple once you get the hang of it.

You want 80% muscle meat, 10% organ meat (5% liver, 5% other organs) and 10% bone – if you don’t want to include bone in the diet or are making a cooked diet you would use 90% muscle meat and 10% organ meat + 800-1,000 mg calcium per 1 lb. meat. You’ll want to keep the meat portion around 80% of the diet the other 20% will be vegetables (cooked and pureed) and supplements. Fruits and extras (i.e. cottage cheese, eggs, kefir, etc.) can be added if you want, but I’d keep it to under 10% of the meal.

For supplements you’ll need to add some trace nutrients. You can get a multi-vitamin/mineral supplement, but I think whole foods are preferable. I mix my own supplement for my dogs with equal parts, I rotate ingredients but the mix I’m currently using is: kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, chlorella, wheat grass, barley grass, bee pollen and garlic powder. You’ll need to add vitamin e as vitamin e is hard to supply in adequate quantities through food alone – for a small dog I’d recommend 50-100 i.u. every day or every other day, medium dogs 100-200 i.u. every day or every other day and 300-400 i.u. every day or every other day for large dogs. I’d also recommend adding a high quality animal-based omega 3 supplement – fish body oil or an oily fish such as sardines.

To keep it even simpler there are pre-mixes available in which all you need to add is meat – THK’s preference, Sojo’s, Birkdale, Urban Wolf, Dr. Harvey’s, etc. Or you can purchase meat/organ/bone grinds (primal, bravo, hare today, my pet carnivore) in which all you need to add are supplements.

Be sure to feed an even mixture of red meat and poultry and feed as much variety as possible. My dogs get a ground red meat meal in the a.m. to which I add their supplements and poultry rmb’s in the evening.

A sample daily menu for my three would be:

a.m. -1 lb. Red Meat Grind (80% muscle meat, 10% organ meat, 10% Bone)
-1/2 c. Cooked & Pureed Veggies
-1/4 C. Kefir
-400 i.u. Vitamin E
-1/2 tbs. Sardine/Anchovy oil blend
-1/2 tbs. supplement

p.m. -Chicken Back (approx. 8 oz.)
-Chicken Foot (approx. 2 oz.)
-2 oz. Chicken Gizzards
-2 oz. Chicken Hearts
-2 oz. Chicken Livers
-Whole Egg

*When feeding RMBs you want to add about 8-12 oz. boneless meat for each pound of RMB.

Hope that helps! 🙂