Hill’s Science Diet Changes Its Recipes


Hill’s Science Diet has announced it has begun shipping dog and cat food products containing new recipes and formulas starting in December 2012.

The new formulations are being rolled out gradually over a period of weeks and should soon be available at pet food retailers.

This is the first overhaul of the Hill’s Science Diet product line in many years.

So, what’s changed?

What We Know About
the New Science Diet Recipes

Based on the company’s news release, here’s what we know about the changes. The products will now include:

  • New packaging
  • Natural ingredients
  • No chicken by-products
  • No artificial colors or flavors
  • Quality protein as the first ingredient

What’s more, as this factory tour video clearly shows, Hill’s boasts an impressive system to prevent contamination and promote rigid quality control.

But How Much Meat?

Thanks to a pet food design method known as ingredient splitting, it’s easy for a company to legally manipulate a list of ingredients to show any item in the first place position.

That’s why it’s still important for you to take a closer look at any new recipe to determine the true amount of meat-based protein in each product.

Updated Ratings — February 2013

Although we applaud Hill’s decision to use natural ingredients and no chicken by-products, our current analysis suggests little has changed. And what has appears to be mostly cosmetic.

The company’s posted label information shows the recipes are still dominated by cereal grains and lower quality ingredients.

The following reviews have been updated and are current1 as of February 2013…

Article History

01/01/2012 Original review
02/17/2013 Article updated

  1. Per Hill’s Pet website, 2/18/2013
  • DLT88

    The main question is — Is ETHOXYQUIN still in their foods??!!! Is it is any raw materials they purchased as an ingredient (which means it’s not on the label)?!!!! That is what I want to know. Are they still using this? Even if they aren’t, though, I have NO TRUST in Hills. I saw the rampant number of intestinal lymphomas in dogs and cats and no one can tell me that ethoxyquin is safe. It’s a weed killer for Pete’s sake. A known carcinogen.

  • Dr J

    Well some have just no idea but an opinion nevertheless……suffering form ill educated fools….

  • Dr J

    Present the facts, not some obscure BS articles…..I feed my dogs the highest quality food I can afford…I eat home grown organic food and rarely go shopping in a supermarket….You are a sad little sap or are drunk blogger…hope it is the latter

  • Dr J

    You got a PhD in anything worthwhile mentioning in this debate or are you just ranting because you have a tummy feel?…..Roundup is not in the terminator seeds…Roundup is a chemical that specifically kills crops that do not have the resistance (yes genetically engineered) against roundup. Do I support this practice? Hell no. I am not worried about GMO I am worried about biodiversity. So before you blow your gasket about something you have no idea calm down, have a smoke and glass of red wine and chill.

  • bojangles

    Hi jrd1103,

    The seeds are resistant to roundup, they don’t contain any roundup.

    The term “terminator seeds” refers to the fact that they can’t be grown for a second generation. The seeds from the first generation will be sterile.This ensures Monsanto that farmers have to buy new seeds for each crop.

  • jrd1103

    Hey Dr. J, why don’t you stop lying to yourself because you’re afraid to face facts. Face it. You will be better for it.

  • jrd1103

    You are in denial. It is a known fact that “mutations” are propagated by humans in the breeding of dogs and cats. GMO’s were a purposely made mutation created by humans, not nature. Get your facts straight. Oh and don’t forget to mention the Roundup that is in these “terminator seeds”-so not only do you have poison built into the food, but then you also have to go buy more of the poisoned seeds from Monsanto to grow another crop of anything. Why don’t you learn the facts before you speak about something you clearly know nothing about.

  • jrd1103

    So knowing how government and industry are soon to be one, why do you say things if the FDA says so, it must be true? You talk out of both sides of your mouth. Make up your mind.

  • Dr J

    Your comment makes no sense what so ever.

  • gloriarider

    are you in denial sounds like….that means science diet does have GMOs why are you poisoning our pets?

  • Dr J

    I have no interest in GMO, but bad science is bad science in any case.

  • Abe

    Doc J,
    you must have a vested interest in GMO’s like every other parrot that claims there safe like Goodman. CRIIGEN used the same rat (Sprague–Dawley rat) as Monsanto. 4 months into the 2 year study Dr. Seralini made the comment about seeing why they did only a 3 month study. For those that can’t figure that out, tumors were showing up 4 months into the study. Go a head and eat your nutritionally weak GMO foods, and wash them down with that GMO E-Coli shit in your diet drinks.

    Richard E. Goodman
    Goodman worked for Monsanto between 1997 and 2004, where he assessed the “allergenicity” of the company’s GM crops and published papers that “confirmed” they were safe to consume. After Monsanto, he became a professor at the University of Nebraska’s Food Allergy Research and Resource Program and has been Associate Editor of Biotechnology for the FCT since February 2013.

    I’ve sold Hills products but wouldn’t use them. Back in the 70’s – 90’s they used a pesticide (Monsanto’s ethoxyquin) as a preservative. All vets sold Hills and pushed the dry. When dogs got sick they used Hills Prescription Diet. This was canned and didn’t have ethoxyquin in it. The dog would recover and go back to the dry. After seeing the obvious, why didn’t vets admit to the connection? They had a vested interest, and since 90+% of animal feed had ethoxyquin in it, they still made a killing off of Prescription Diet.

    Wolves and lions like dog and cats eat meat. The only veggies they eat are in the gut of there kill.

    Good work Harry Balls. But one thing, GMO’s need to be banned. Wait for the fall out from what GMO’s are doing to our wildlife! Where did the moose go in sugar beet country?? Also Roundup is being used as a desiccant in non GMO crops, and I for one would like to, and have the right to know which ones!
    Just look at the pictures.

  • fred flinstone

    Our vet clinic in Calgary (shawnessy south pet hospital) aggressively tries to sell this food because the manager gets kickbacks by not allowing any food competitors in their retail space. Also, the food is basically known as the McDonalds of animal nutritional quality.

  • LuvMyMutt

    I choose to buy GMOs or not, I choose to send one child to private school while the other goes to public and I choose whether to buy private health insurance or go on my employer’s plan. That said – can we stick to dog food folks????

  • theBCnut

    I certainly do make choices about my food. I homeschool my kids. But you may have me soon, when it comes to healthcare.

  • Betsy Greer

    That’s crazy! Of course we have choices! You can choose to buy a product that you know contains GMO ingredients or you can choose to not patronize a company because of their use of them. To insinuate otherwise is fear mongering.

  • Petshrink

    I agree: we should have a choice. But we don’t have a choice in the USA anymore, not about food, education, or healthcare. Government and industry are soon to be one. Run.

  • theBCnut

    There have been several medications that the FDA said were safe that have killed or permanantly injured who knows how many people. Sorry if “The FDA says…” isn’t enough. Why shouldn’t people be allowed to choose whether or not they want to eat GMO? What is the harm in allowing people to know? Why does Monsanto need to ruin the lives of people who speak against GMO, if they have nothing to hide? Just the fact that Monsanto is suing farmers for their crops because they don’t control where their pollen goes is enough for me to not want to buy their product.

  • Petshrink

    These dog food ratings are a double edged sword. I have had dogs for 40 years. Over that time they ate all kinds of junk dog food and did just fine. Now however, I do think manufacturers are making more junk now than then because of marketing in order to carry low end, mid-range and high end dog food: it allows for a pricing strategy that improves the bottom line. Some of these foods are only marginally different within and between brands. Don’t be fooled out of your money. The best four star contaminated product could be more lethal than the questionable ingredient food your dog or cat loves.

  • Petshrink

    GMO’s will continue to be part of the food chain for all living organisms whether it is induced by humans or through natural selection or a fluke of nature. I don’t agree or disagree with the use of GMO in principle, but my inclination is to stay as close to nature as possible.

  • Petshrink

    “The FDA has determined, along with those 1,700-plus other studies, that GM foods pose no risk to America’s families and, as such, do not warrant a label. We should follow the science and stop the fear-mongering. We don’t need a series of regulations and labels to tell us what we already know: Genetically modified foods are safe.”

  • Pattyvaughn

    Ripley had a 2 headed calf back in the 60s.

  • Dr J

    I am sorry, first of all these mutation have nothing to do with GMO’s, second of all this is a page to discuss dog food and not post images of animals that clearly have sever genetic abnormalities, abnormalities that have been with us since the dawn of live. If a mutation is advantageous it will stay, if it is not like 7 legged sheep it will die out. It is called evolution. in that way one can look upon cancer as an evolutionary step as well, which is actually a hypothesis in cancer research.

  • Dr J

    Well we saw exactly these type of genetic aberrations way before GMO’s were even invented.

  • Harry Balls

    Deformed, Mutated, Genetically Modified Animals Part


  • Guest

    Deformed, Mutated, Genetically Modified Animals Part 1


  • Guest

    Deformed, Mutated, Genetically Modified Animals Part 1!


  • Pattyvaughn

    And if GMOs actually did this then how come we aren’t seeing it in every sheep, and everything else, that is fed on GMOs, because I can assure you that it is almost impossible to find large animal feed that is GMO free.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I get that we don’t get the plant disease from a plant pathogen, but that is not the same thing as knowing they don’t affect us. Bread mold affects us, yes I know it’s not the same, but do you get my point. And I realize that we are talking about a single protein, not the actual plant pathogen, but proteins that we weren’t meant to eat in a larger quantity than we would accidentally ingest might affect us. I don’t think there has been enough research to know for sure.

  • Dr J

    Harry Balls, please do explain to me how a sheep or any creature would end up with such a dramatic mutation due to the consumption of GMO crop?

  • Dr J

    No we are not doomed, the ones that pig out on junk food might be doomed.

  • Dr J

    Plant pathogens do not affect humans, because the entire cell structure is completely different and hence the invasive mechanism. In addition, we do not eat the plant pathogen, we eat a single protein encoded by this plant pathogen. You eat and ingest pathogens all the time and we still have billions of humans on this planet.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I’m still just thinking about the possibility of unintended consequences…
    If we don’t go around eating these things, then how do we know that it’s safe to eat these things. Is it a plant pathogen in plants that we eat or plants we don’t eat or just all plants in general. Just because something is a plant pathogen, that doesn’t mean that it won’t have some unintended effect on humans.

  • Dr J

    Should be totally safe since it is a plant pathogen, but you don’t consume the bug, you consume a protein produced by this bug.

  • Dr J

    Heck, I am the first one to ask why do we add food colorings to food, why have all the chemicals that extend the life of ready meals etc. Makes absolutely no sense at all. There is no need for high fructose corn syrup to be added to everything.

  • Shawna

    I think we are also much more dependent on a smaller range of foods to nourish us then ever before. You bring up high fructose corn syrup (as it is called in the US) as just one example. A form of soy is in everything from chocolate bars to main dishes. We are so much more reliant on processed foods then ever before in our history (for dogs and humans).

    Is it possible that MSG or food colorings or gluten or whatever was causing issues all along we just didn’t have the intense exposure we do now?

  • Shawna

    So in your opinion, as a scientist, it would be no more or no less allergenic, or tolerated, than any other food protein?

    If one was to react to this potentially novel protein, would it be an IgE or IgA/G or M reaction?

  • Pattyvaughn

    We live in a rural area, but have asthma. You know what our triggers are? Air freshners, scented candles, perfumes.
    When I was growing up, there was one kid in my entire school that was out of control(they didn’t have ADHD back then). I know at least 10 now that are physically out of control, nevermind a diagnosis(I agree with you on that one). I don’t know what the answers are, but I do believe that a lot of these things have to do with overwhelming exposure to chemicals that we were never meant to be exposed to.
    And I agree about global warming too. It is a natural phenomenon, however I believe that we have contributed to and accelerated it.

  • Dr J

    That is exactly the study that was ripped to shreds by the scientific community because it was poorly designed, ie no appropriate positive and negative controls.

  • Dr J

    We will never be able to interpret anything, because there is no positive or negative control. ADHD in my opinion has skyrocket because we diagnose this now and often over-diagnose it. What was earlier a difficult child or a different person is now labeled ADHD and “luckily” we have a drug that can treat this. Allergies increase because we live in an increasingly sterile world and asthma can be directly linked to air pollution. There is a great study from a town that was in East Germany, where there was little asthma, but with the introduction of diesel engines after unification the rate of asthma went up like crazy. Cancer is a consequence of exposure to carcinogens and aging, the more often you copy the genes the more likely you will introduce a mutation.

    I never contended that pollution has no consequences on life. I always maintained that while I am not sure to what degree we humans contribute to global warming, I am certain that we are the cause of epic pollution and by reducing this we will get a better handle on climate change as well. Just look at the ozone hole, we band CFC’s and guess what happened.

  • Dr J

    I don’t disagree with that statement and I know why there is a resistance against labeling food as containing GMO’s, because every single processed food would have to carry that label. Try going to a supermarket and find a single processed product that does not either contain soya bean or some form of corn derivative. Since we do not make a distinction and mix the crops, there is no way to know what is in it. Do I agree with it no, there should be labels, because that will open the market for farms to produce a greater bio-diverse crop of food. i hate the monoculture offering that I am seeing in every supermarket, of bland and tasteless food.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Is Agrobacterium tumefaciensis safe for human consumption?

    Glycophosate may not be fatal unless large quanities are consumed, but do we really lnow what the consequences are for small amounts consumed daily over the course of years.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Did you know that the diagnostic rate of ADHD has skyrocketed in the last few years, and scientists don’t know why. BTW, that’s in the U.S., not globally. Who’s to say that it isn’t all these things that we are polluting our bodies with. Allergies and asthma have greatly increased too, also for unknown reasons. Then there is cancer and a whole host of other things. JMO, but I think we are seeing the consequences of our actions and the science just hasn’t caught up yet.

    I completely agree that we are the guinea pigs, but this experiment wasn’t written very well, so who is going to be able to interpret the results.

  • Dr J

    Or simply a genetic defect….This has nothing to do with GMO, absolutely zilch.

  • Dr J

    I know where the gene to Roundup resitance comes from. They inserted a variation of the EPSPS from the CP4 strain of the bacteria Agrobacterium tumefaciensis (which is a plant pathogen) and have it controlled by various different promotors. This insertion of the variant gene makes the plant become glycophosate resistant, which is the compound in Roundup. Glycophosate is not toxic to humans unless you drink Roundup. However, Roundup contains other chemicals that may actually be the cause of toxicity. The crux with all herbicides, fungicides, antibiotics etc is that plants and bugs can build-up resistance and that is what is happening with roundup, because it is used in massive quantities. From what I have read the I consider both GMO’s and Roundup as save, but I do have enough other moral and enviromental concerns for me not to buy either GMO’s when I know they are or use Roundup in my yard.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I’ve never worried about the protein either. One of my concerns is where did they get the genes for insect resistance and round up ready traits? If they weren’t from edible plants then are we introducing minute amounts of something into our bodies that will have long term consequences? Not all natural insectides are good to eat, by a long shot.

  • Dr J

    It will be digested just like any other protein, because the peptidases will recognize the same cleavage sites. This is not an artificial protein, as far as I am aware we managed to create some artificial peptides but we are still way off from creating a fully functional protein, even a simple one. Even an artificial protein would have sequences that would be recognized by peptidases.

  • Pattyvaughn

    I knew someone up in Connecticut named Andrew Wiley Dick. His sense of humor was quite twisted and he went by A. Wiley Dick.

  • butchroy

    There was an actual person named Harry Balls in politics in Fort Wayne, Indiana back in the 50s or 60s, he may have even been mayor. Can you imagine the parents naming the child that?

  • Harry Balls

    we are doomed

  • Harry Balls

    If GMOs Are Safe………………..

  • losul

    Hey Harry,

    This is rumored to be a GMO. Kind of bears a creepy resemblance to Ben, don’t you think?


  • Harry Balls

    My proplem with GMOs is that consumers are not given a choice if they wish to eat and feed GMOs to their pets.

    Why all the label secrecy? (we all know why) If you want to feed your family and pets GMO’s dr. j go right ahead, I could care less.

    Consumers should have a say what goes into their bodies and what goes into their pets bodies.

  • Shawna

    Hmm, just thought of something else.. Mr. Vrain is a scientist that once supported GMO technology. Why do you suppose he would put his own neck on the line if there wasn’t something more to it? If he’s a scientist shouldn’t he know the research he’s referring to is sub-par? Just makes me question things……..

  • Harry Balls

    Cons – Arguments Against Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs)

    Studies have already shown that GMOs are dangerous to rats. A review of 19 studies in which genetically modified soy and corn were fed to mammals found that a GMO diet often led to liver and kidney problems. While results on rats may or may not be relevant to humans, these results show that GMOs may have unintended effects on wildlife and livestock.


  • Shawna

    Doing what we can, in my opinion, is better than doing nothing at all.. The government will step in and take the side of corporation, like they did with rBGH, but if enough people get the message it MAY have an impact. Even if only a small one..

  • Shawna

    As a scientist you understand something laypersons do not.. You can give your side and those like the scientists Jeffrey Smith interviewed for his book “Seeds of Deception” can give their side. As a layperson all I can do is make a judgement call based on what I’ve read and my gut feelings..

    Vrain is just one example — I don’t have Smith’s book with me now but I know a “gag order” was put on the scientist that first found negative info on GMO’s in Europe. What I am left with — MAYBE they aren’t harmful, MAYBE they are?? Until more data is found I certainly don’t want Monsanto pushing them down my throat and I, like you, have no interest in supporting Monsanto.

    I ask you this — from your professional point of view, are you certain that the protein in the manufactured food is digested just like any other protein? And that that digested protein will not be considered “foreign” to the body (if not completely digested) any moreso than an protein in unaltered foods? Is it possible (and I’m looking to be educated with my questioning not to argue with you) that the protein could cause a greater reaction in a larger number of individuals?

  • Dr J

    Absolutely, that is why I am saying we are all part of one giant field study…..

  • Pattyvaughn

    I’m particularly unhappy about Monsanto suing farmers for their crops because Monsanto couldn’t keep their pollen to themselves and judges letting them get away with it. Personally, I think Monsanto should have been held liable for ruining the farmers crops and put out of business. Even if you get your produce from a specific farm, you may still be eating Monsanto corn etc. Pollen can blow pretty far.

  • Dr J

    But I worried about becoming a testicle resistant man…..I’d rather worry about biodiversity, the dependency of farmers and society on one crop, the government supporter “let’s use corn starch syrup” in everything. The experiment with GMO’s has been going on for decades and you and I are the lab rats, because this stuff crops up in the most surprising places. Unless you get your produce from an specific farm and you never buy processed food, chances are that you are part of this study. The cat has been out of its bag way too long for us to get her back in.

  • Dr J

    The studies Vrain refers to are poorly controlled and that is exactly the problem. If you design a poor study then you get poor results. I am not a proponent of GMO, but for other reasons, like the control of entire markets by Monsanto, the eradication of biodiversity, ie you get 3 different apples you can pick from. From a safety aspect I have absolutist no worries, because a gene is gene and the protein expressed from it is a protein.

  • Dr J

    Now please explain to me why GMO should be more dangerous than “normal” plants, because they pseudo scientific babble of Dr Fox makes no sense at all? Just one example you will have micro RNA from non GMO foods as well. Also the the proteins are not engineered but come from naturally resistant organisms. But I would be interested why in your interpretation…..

  • losul

    Almost as funny as the helicopter/longnose Benny avatar

  • Cyndi

    I completely agree with you. I was laughing at your name. You are trying to get people to listen to you, but maybe they’re not because of your choice of name. You should just stick with Harry.

  • Harry Balls

    dead and sick pets are no LOL matter. We all love our pets.

  • Harry Balls

    Pet foods with genetically modified ingredients put dogs & cats at risk

  • Harry Balls
  • Harry Balls
  • Cyndi

    Sure is hard to take someone like Mr. Balls seriously. LOL!!

  • LabsRawesome


  • Shawna

    ABSOLUTELY do believe that the government would, and most definitely does, allow controversial and even known problematic products to enter, and stay in, the market.. History proves it. You hit on it yourself “grossly substandard ingredients”…

    There’s also what appears to be reliable data against GMO use.. Data such as

    Thierry Vrain, a former research scientist, and GMO supporter, for Agriculture Canada writes:

    “There are no long-term feeding studies performed in these countries [US and Canada] to demonstrate the claims that engineered corn and soya are safe. All we have are scientific studies out of Europe and Russia, showing that rats fed engineered food die prematurely.

    These studies show that proteins produced by engineered plants are different than what they should be. Inserting a gene in a genome using this technology can and does result in damaged proteins. The scientific literature is full of studies showing that engineered corn and soya contain toxic or allergenic proteins.

    I have no misguided illusions that my government is out to protect my health or my rights…

  • Pattyvaughn

    The level of your ignorance is astonishing. How many medications have been but on the open market and then proven to be unsafe because our government took the word of the manufacturer and the study they paid for? Monsanto tells our government that they don’t need to have GMOs studied because Monsanto has already done it and of course GMOs are safe. And we’re supposed to believe that? Sorry, but as a scientist, you should know that and study done based on a bias is not good science. Long term independant testing is necessary to answer peoples fears about GMOs, not Monsanto’s word.

    BTW, I have never worried about turning into corncob man or pesticide resistant woman, never even had the thought. Talk about ignorant.

  • B Reijnders

    I’m an animal scientist and I have studied biotechnology, including GMO and it’s regulation. All the hype you hear on the news and via the box with moving pictures is propaganda and sensationalist media hype. GMO is strictly regulated and controlled.
    Do you imagine that something so controversial will be allowed to enter the market without the most stringent testing mankind can devise?
    The uninformed public has this strange idea that DNA from GMO will somehow meld with their genome and turn everyone into “corncob man” and “pesticide-resistant woman.”
    The level of general ignorance about GMO is astonishing. Try looking at grossly sub-standard ingredients and poor hygeine practices before jumping to conclusions about GMO.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Some of the sickness is because some people feed their dogs the exact same food for years and the dogs can’t handle the slightest change so when the dog food company changes their recipe it is a major shock to the dog’s system and they get sick.
    GMOs would probably cause chronic problems, but probably not acute problems.

  • Harry Balls

    New to all this but I do find it interesting many dog food companies have changed formulas resulting in sick and dead dogs. I wonder how much of this has to do with GMO or genetically modified poison making its way into dog food. Is there anyway to find out who has sold us all out and uses GMO in their dog foods? Or better yet who does not?

    What is GMO Food for Pets?


  • Pattyvaughn

    Nutritionally speaking, domestic cats are lions, BTW.

  • Shawna

    That is interesting, especially in light of the fact that common day dogs have zero nutritional need fot carbohydrates per Waltham, Purina, Hills etc. That’s not to say that they can’t derive value from small amounts, just that they don’t require them to maintain health.

  • Pattyvaughn


  • Alana

    Contrary to popular belief, modern dogs do not descend from the western wolves we know today. Instead their origins can b traced back to Asian wild dogs which were scavengers with a predominantly omnivorous diet (both meats and veggies). Therefore, we should not base nutrition behavior etc of our domestic dogs to that of wolves. That’s like comparing domestic cats to lions or apples to oranges.

  • Richard

    In the last few cases of Mature Adult Gourmet Canned Turkey and/or Beef Science
    Diet, there was a 1/4″ air space along one side of canned food. The
    exposed edge of the food was much darker in color. I am concerned about
    this since over the 10 years I have used this product, there has never
    been a problem. Anyone else have this problem? The manager of the store
    did not run into this before (I opened 2 of 4 cans). Could there be a
    problem with the canning process that allows air in the can?

  • Pamela

    What are you feeding her now in place of Science Diet? I’m looking for a replacement…?

  • mary14889

    I, too, am no longer a Science Diet customer after almost 20 years since I can no longer find anything that does not have wheat in it. They may have added more and better quality meat but traded that off with cheap and toxic wheat. I used to be able to find select Science Diet formulas that were without wheat and had dogs and cats that lived an average of 20 years. I’m sorry that i had to say “sayonara.”

  • AB

    After feeding my dog Science Diet exclusively for 10 years, I have had to change brands since their “new formula”. 4 days after starting the new formula, my dog began having gas and diarrhea. She had just had her yearly vet exam and all was clear. Not knowing it was the Science Diet at first, took her off that food, gave bland foods and probiotic – she got better. Put her back on Science Diet – diarrhea came back. Put her on a limited ingredient dog food by another manufacturer. No problems. To be sure – gave her one more feeding of Science Diet – diarrhea came back. It’s the “new formula”. Will never use their products again.

  • Mom2manypaws

    I had 3 dogs eating the toy and small breed formula and only one got sick, but she was voiently ill and almost died. I had just opened a third bag of the 4.4 pound bags and she was the first one to eat. My 5 month old mixed breed pup wouldnt touch the food, that should of been my first clue something was wrong because she eats anything! The dog who ended up sick is a 5 pound toy poodle, by that night she was pooing nothing but blood. After a week long vet visit, numerous meds, testing and IV’s and two weeks on a bland diet she pulled thru. The only thing the vet could come up with was it had to be something she ingested. My floors are clean, we have no mice, so no rat poison the only thing she does out side is her business and my garbage cans all have lids. So it had to be the food.
    I contacted SD, they returned my email within 2 days with a questionarre and sent me a ten dollar coupon and after. Several emails have not heard another thing.,
    Im extremely dissappointed in this company as I thought there quality control and customer service was highly rated.

  • LWyatt

    I always buy my dog SD Mature Adult “active longevity” and this “new formula” had my dog sick for days!!! I noticed he had gas and couldn’t hold his BM which turned into uncontrollable diarrhea and vomiting! He became dehydrated and I had to send him to vet for fluids and prescription food to calm his stomach. It only took 1-2 feeding and all this occurred.

  • aimee

    I realize the limitations of the study. This is why I prefaced reporting it with FWIW and then acknowledged that it was a retrospective study that relied on memory which makes it a weaker study. But despite those weaknesses ( I used the word “Nonetheless” ) I found it interesting.

    What I would have called you out on and not accepted would be if you had made a statement “eating red meat causes mammary cancer” and used this study as your reference. The study is too weak to support that statement.

    See the difference?

  • Shawna

    The report I read on EU ban stated that the US and Canada fought the ban and that to resolve the dispute the EU agreed to purchasing “hormone free, “higher quality” meats” from the US… Go friggin figure…. Sending our best “higher quality” meats overseas…ughhh

    I find it interesting that the owners of the dogs reported on the body composition as well as dietary and reproductive histories via questionaire. I have a feeling that if I had supplied a study as this you would not have accepted it for that reason.

  • aimee

    My comment wasn’t directed at or had anything to do with soy…

  • Pattyvaughn

    Wow, I guess time flies in my old age. I didn’t think the EU was that old and I didn’t think an EU ban could predate the EU. I guess that once again, you have given me a lot to read up on. Seeing how much I LOVE reading, I must thank you once again(no I’m not being sarcastic, it really is my favorite pastime and sometimes I just can’t decide what subject to look into next)!

  • aimee

    I’m not familiar with agriculture in Spain. At quick glance it looks as though corn and soy are big.. same as here but yet poultry wasn’t associated with a higher cancer risk.

  • aimee

    The The FDA report I found said ban was in 1985 another report I found said 1988. This study was published 1998.

  • Shawna

    Being a woman of science I’m sure you know quite well that soy foods (and extracts) have demonstrated very mixed results. 🙂

    “Adding soy doesn’t affect onset of menopausal hot flashes” http://health.universityofcalifornia.edu/2012/10/31/adding-soy-doesnt-affect-onset-of-menopausal-hot-flashes/

    LOTS of these types of reports emerging in the last six months or so.

    Toxed knows way more about this than I do (and I’m sure my M.D. does as well) but I know certain foods have a positive impact while others do not.

    I was not aware of the EU ban.. I know Ireland has had a ban for a long time now though. If caught there is apparentely jail time. They seem to take it very serious..

    Hmmm, I wonder if it has anything to do with what the cow ate? Cows on certain foods have a higher saturated fat and lower omega fatty acid profile. And since toxins are stored in fat????

  • Pattyvaughn

    I didn’t think the EU ban on growth hormones was that old.

  • aimee

    The Study was done in Spain. I’ve read that the EU bans hormone growth promoters ( not to say it isn’t ever done illegally). So I don’t think we can pin the cause on that.

    Interesting that your hot flashes went away with avoiding estrogenic foods since hot flashes are reportedly caused by decreased estrogen levels.

  • Shawna

    I hit the wrong button and lost everything too — ughhhh.

    I would certainly agree with the research that found an increased risk of cancer, especially breast cancer, in those eating higher amounts of “red meats”. With all the hormones they pump into cattle it is no wonder!! Homemade meals generally being higher in meats would make sense too…

    In my early 30’s I started having menopausal type symptoms (hot flashes mainly). My M.D., the one that is also a Certified Clinical Nutritionist, suggested I not eat ANY conventionally raised meats (only organic) and avoid soy and other estrogenic foods. Within a very short time all my symptoms went away. Now at 45 I still have not experienced those symptoms again.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Mine eat in their crates the majority of the time, but when I feed out in the yard it’s one at a time.

  • aimee

    Certainly this is an area in which there is not a lot of data. FWIW the study that looked at diet type/ composition and mammary cancer found an association between home cooked diets and diets containing red meat.

    “The intake of homemade meals (compared to that of commercial foods) was also significantly related to a higher incidence of tumors and
    dysplasias. Other significant risk factors were a high intake of red
    meat, especially beef and pork, and a low intake of chicken.”

    I haven’t read the full text of this study and consider retrospective studies to be weaker as they rely on human memory.

    Also no where did I find that commercial foods were kibble. Nonetheless, I found it interesting because of the human studies linking higher red meat intake to cancer.


  • Hound Dog Mom

    All three of mine eat separately. If I fed all three in the same room, three would go in and one would come out. lol.

  • Shawna

    I was JUST thinking this very thing over the weekend when I was feeding 16 year old Chihuahua Cloee.. She gets put in the bathroom with her food so as to eat in peace. She’ll try to protect her food but one will distract her and another will go after the food. So we put her behind a closed door.

    Peanut, our extremely submissive pup, eats behind a closed door too..

  • Shawna

    MOST extruded kibbles are a risk factor for cancer. Please read Dr. Demian Dressler’s article on the Dog Cancer Blog website entitled “Dog Food: Is There a Cancer Risk?”. http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-food-is-there-a-cancer-risk/

    Additionally, GSDs have a genetic predisposition to IgA deficiency (a part of the immune system). And some studies indicate the risk factor for certain cancers (including lymphoma) increases in IgA deficient humans. If this is accurate the same may be true for dogs.

  • LawofRaw

    And that link regarding Jerry the 27 year old Aussie Cattle Bull Terrier cross that lived in the Aussie outback solely on a diet of raw meaty bones, offal, carcasses, and table scraps etc (He was 27 in 2004, so it’s an old story now, but none the less relevant!), can be read here, http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2004-07-13-oldest-dog_x.htm.

    Jerry’s story is also reminiscent of my dad’s favourite dog back in his day on a farm in Europe, who lived till the ripe old age of 26 thanks to a similar diet.

  • LawofRaw

    Well said Hound Dog Mum! I just come on line and posted a reply to HP, and then saw your reply.

  • LawofRaw

    Allow me to provide the following quote from Carissa Kuehn, from rawfed/myths.com. I used to provide a rebuttal to your type of statement regarding the wolf’s life span, in my own words, but Carissa put it so well, that I couldn’t have put it better myself. Before I quote the following, it’s important to understand that her words, (the same sentiments I share), does not just come out of thin air, and made up out of nothing. The information is derived from expert sources such as world leading wolf expert, biologist Dr. Lucyan David Mech PhD, veterinarian Dr. Tom Lonsdale, BVetMed, zoologist Dr. George Feldhamer PhD etc etc.

    She writes, “Living in the wild is a tough job. Wild wolves face the brunt of nature and must deal with the bitter elements every single day—heat, cold, rain, storms, blizzards, ice storms, etc. They also must deal with the high energetic costs associated with bringing down huge herbivores like elk, deer, and moose. They also encounter intraspecific competition for food among other wolves in addition to interspecific competition with bears, cougars, and humans. They face predation, habitat loss, and prey loss by humans as well as a decreasing environmental quality in habitat and food. They also must deal with parasites (every wild animal has them and usually coexists quite peacefully with them), with foreign toxic pollutants, with wolf-wolf altercations, with wolf-prey altercations, with wolf-other carnivore or scavenger altercations, and with increasing encroachment and habitat destruction by humans. They face a sporadic prey supply and starvation routinely and may go several weeks without food. In spite of all this they can still thrive well enough to expend precious energy in reproductive forays, producing litters of healthy pups and creating an increased demand for food. These are the reasons a wolf’s lifespan in the wild is shorter, NOT because of its diet. It is precisely their diet and genetic hardiness that keeps them alive, even in the face of disease. It is not that their food is somehow lacking and incapable of sustaining them, but that they cannot always get enough of that food to meet all their metabolic requirements. It is that very food that fills, heals, and sustains them. Hopefully you can now see how ludicrous it is to assume diet is the reason for a decreased lifespan in the wild.”

    “When we look at our domesticated wolf companions—our dogs—this lifespan issue becomes a moot point. Our dogs do not live in the wild and therefore do not face most of the energetically costly factors wolves face. Our dogs live comfortably in our homes where they should always receive enough food and care, and where the raw food they need can be obtained from parasite-free sources. Just look at the example set by Jerry, the 27-year-old raw-fed Australian cattle dog-bull terrier mix of the Australian Outback (Outback Mongrel Could Be Oldest Dog. USA Today. 7-13-2004.). To see the full text story, please click here (if this link does not work, please tell me; it may mean the story has moved elsewhere).”

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Hmm…I wonder why? I bet it has a lot to do with the fact that they are wild animals. They have to catch their own food often experiencing periods of starvation, they receive no medical care and they have to face extreme elements. Quite a bit different than the average domestic dog that sits indoors on a nice soft dog bed with a guaranteed meal daily and regular medical care. What happens to a wolf when they start to age? They have to compete with younger, more fit wolves for food. What happens to a domestic dog when they age? They still get a meal set in front of them every day. We also can’t forget their size – they’re large, often as large as most giant breed domestic dogs. Do giant breed dogs live a long time? No – the average life expectancy of a Great Dane is only about 7 years. Sorry – but if the “point” you’re trying to make is that dogs shouldn’t eat a diet modeled after the diet of wolves simply because wolves don’t live as long as domestic dogs you don’t have a leg to stand on.

  • HP

    There are no old wolves in the wild. They only live to about 7.

  • vinboden

    meaning when you fed it to your dog or puppy of course.

  • vinboden

    I have a question for anyone here who has had digestive issues with Science Diet “the new formula” How long after feeding your dog this food, did it start having gas? how many feedings did it take for the diahrea to come on? and if anyone’s pup/dog was throwing up how long before that started? Thank you

  • vinboden

    they only have to have a percentage of whatever to be able to call it natural.

  • Guest

    What do older wolves in the wild eat? Whatever live or scavenged dead partial or complete ungulate or carrion, right? And isn’t that what younger wolves would be privy to as well? Well the majority of the nutrient composition of such dead meats that all life stage wolves would consume, is protein! So the same applies for the domestic dog, young or old. For me, the design and philosophy of Mother Nature, says it all.

  • Alexandra

    How is a plant sourced protein “quality” for a species that Mother Nature intended to eat meat????

  • Shawna

    Why not “overdo the protein”?

  • Shawna

    The very reason why many of us don’t rely on our vets for nutritional advice.. 🙁

  • NYszq

    Thank you for posting!

  • paul

    If your dog is age nine and relatively healthy (definition?) why switch? I switched my puppy between age 8-9 months to Blue Buffalo puppy kibble, and he became itchy within a few days. After 2 weeks of this, I switched brands, and he stopped scratching within days after switching. While the Science Diet of 2+ years ago would not be my choice, I am happy that it has been improved and certain varieties of it (not all) are not the knee jerk 4 letter word bandied about here under “SD.”

  • paul

    Yes, you are correct. This site may provide some valuable information, but in 2010 it gave Evo a great rating, including because of the allegedly good quality and good amount of “protein.” I bought it and Evo for my German Shepherd dog, who subsequently became ill, and our vet immediately changed her diet. I doubt whether a correlation can be proven for causing my dog’s lymphoma six months later, requiring chemo, but I do my own thorough research now.

  • Frank


  • Frank

    I think you must work for their competitor, Hills does not use preservatives or artificial ingredients. The bags say all natural on them, and in case you didn’t know–that is a legal document–big lawsuits if there are lies on the bag—don’t you care about your animals? You don’t seem to know very much about Hill’s…just read the bag duh

  • Frank

    Nope, your links are not the new food. I don’t care if you are or are not a Hill’s fan. Health minded people are obviously helping create a food that compares to Blue Buffalo without the price gouge. If I was to pay Blue’s prices, I’d buy P & C Organix with organic ingredients, if not, I believe the new Ideal Balance is a good choice. Without your hatred, I can plainly see that there is plenty of meat on the ingredient list, I have no reason to be against it. My dogs like it, I like it…I am impressed with it to tell the truth.

  • Frank

    The protein content of the new Ideal Balance is within the limits of what my small animal veterinarian book states for the optimum nutrition for dogs. I guess veterinarian is a curse word on this website, even though it is possible for some vets to also be interested in nutrition…my dogs live to 18 and older and never have cancer, usually die of old age or have to be put down…I trust myself and my choices. Feed clean water, fresh veggies, organic when possible and a good kibble, don’t overdo the protein on a dog over age 7 and you will have your dog for 18+ years be ready for doggy arthritis and cataracts, everyone gets those when they are humans over age 100…I would feed my dogs the new Ideal Balance. More protein is not better–that is marketing. Quality protein, the right amount of fiber, veggies, whole grains (if any), healthy fats, and lots of love. The new IB has glucosamine and chondroitin, and omegas… I appreciate that. I can’t homemake the food ALL the time…Thanks…

  • Hi Nikko,

    Hill’s as just recently updated their new recipes for Ideal Balance on their website. They’ve removed the “Science Diet” name and made some changes to the ingredients.

    However, ingredients alone never tell the whole picture. If it’s meat you’re looking for, we’re not too impressed. The protein numbers appear to be well below average for kibble and much of that protein is contributed by the pea protein.

    Sandy and I will have our Ideal Balanced review updated very soon. So, stay tuned.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Dr. Mike has actually reviewed the Ideal Balance line from Hill’s:



    I was actually at Tractor Supply yesterday and I noticed the product line had been updated so these reviews may need some updating as well. I’ve got to say, I’m not a Hill’s fan, but the new Ideal Balance line is the best product they’ve ever put out. I was reading the ingredients and was surprised to see that they really aren’t horrible. I’m also really liking the look of the new packaging. The foods are still nothing I’d use or recommend, however. The grain-free formula appears to derive most its protein from vegetable sources and both the grain-inclusive and grain-free are ridiculously overpriced given the quality. The grain-free is retailing for an average of $49.99 for 21 lbs.! No way, I could get a 5 star food with meat protein for that kind of money.

  • Nikko

    All the people seem not to know about this—no corn no wheat no soy….by Hill’s…

  • Hiki

    Hill’s does not use any preservatives or artificial colors, or artificial ingredients. Read a current bag please

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Well, it’s better than Science Diet. Here are the reviews:


  • Can anyone tell me more about Blue Buffalo? I’ve switched from SD to it, and it seems to be good, but who knows? There’s so much lying going on in the food world. My boy is 9 and is relatively healthy.

  • “I think we are done with Science Diet.”

    You’re about 6 years too late. Lot’s of corn, by-products, soy… not good ingredients. I think you’ll find that not only would your dog enjoy a food with more meat/animal-based protein in it, but he’ll be happier and healthier too.

    And I wanted to second sandy’s advice about rotating foods. Your dog needs a well-rounded diet just like you and I. That can’t happen with just one food.

  • I wouldn’t feed one food for 6 years in the first place. The dog is used to only digesting one food and it’s particular ingredients for 6 years and can’t seem to adapt to any new ingredients. Find a couple foods he will eat and rotate through them. Companies are always changing their recipes for whatever reasons. Give him probiotics/enzymes to help him adjust to new foods.

  • Labowner

    Well something has changed. My yellow lab has eaten SD small bites (original formula) for 6 years. Started introducing some of the new formula and he won’t touch it. Spits it out in fact. I’ve sprinkled a little shredded cheese on it (about 1/2 tsp) and that gets him to eat some, but then for about 2 hours he mopes around the house and lays on the couch. That is not normal for this dog! He’s usually a very rambuncious “teenager”. Yesterday morning he was running around the house and wrestling with my husband. Then he ate a bowl of the new food. Back to the couch… and this time when he woke up he was favoring his right hind leg and now he hardly will put any weight on it. Not sure if there’s a connection but again..12 hours ago, and before the food…he was NORMAL. Right now he is not normal. I think we are done with Science Diet.

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Well, Hill’s was talking about their recipe changes for months before they happened so you should’ve had fair warning. I work at a shelter that feeds SD and there were stickers on their food for months before the formula change saying their was going to be a new formula and it was on their website months ahead of time. I thought the old SD formula was bad and I think the new formula is bad too but I do think it’s a slight improvement over the old formula.

  • Pattyvaughn

    It’s extremely rare for a dog food manufacturer to tell you ahead of time that they are changing anything. Even the good companies don’t do that. Honestly, Champion Pet Foods is the only one I’ve ever heard of giving advanced warning to an upcoming change. And our laws don’t require them to disclose it on the bag either. In fact, when they change the ingredients, they are allowed to continue using the old bags until they run out of them. Outrageous!!!

  • Science Diet is hardly the only company that changes their formulas without making it clear to owners and sellers that they’ve done so.

    With that said, it’s a good thing you changed from SD because… well… it’s junk. I don’t care how many doctors tell me it’s good thanks to research or whatever. Mother Nature has raised animals for a little bit longer, so I’m going with her.

  • Kerry

    I was feeding my dog Science Diet for about 3 years,, then they changed their recipe. $200.00 and change later, it turns out it was the new formula, that she does not have anything wrong with her. She suffered with diarrhea for 3 days! No where on the package or signage at the store, was there any indication of this change. I will never feed my dog Science Diet again! I called them to tell them what had happened. THEY SENT ME $20.00 OF COUPONS FOR MORE FOOD, which I promptly threw into the garbage. I wouldn’t even give them to anyone.

  • Tracy

    my vet recommends the WD formula because my little guy has a long history of bladder stones & pancreatitis, this seems to be keep these issues under control- any ideas of a better food?? It bothers me to think I’m feeding him something that isn’t good for him. Suggestions???

  • Biko’s Buddy

    Thank you for the info. My Siberian Husky has recently been put on to the k/d Diet due to possible renal failure. I’ll be watching for updated info as I refer this site to others all the time.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Hi Mary

    Almost all commercially available corn is genetically modified to resist herbicides and pesticides so they can be sprayed even more.  The result is that they take up a large amount of herbicides and pesticides.  So the corn you feed your family has small amounts of poison in every bite.  Your dog eats this every meal day in and day out for years.  Tell me how that is healthy.

  • kibblekills

     Not only does corn offer just about nothing nutritionally, it is not digestible by any means. Do your own research in your toilet bowl after eating corn, it comes out EXACTLY as it went in. The real problem with corn for dogs, aside from the complete lack of nutrition, is really the side effects from the processing and pesticides used on said corn. Not to mention that we’re talking about husks and literal sweepings of the processing plant for here. I won’t even go there about corn gluten and what that does for yeast overgrowth, equaling allergies in dogs and cats. Having said all this, keep in mind that corn is usually one of the first five ingredients in craptacular dog foods, even the first! Put your family on a strict diet of dry corn flakes for a few months and see what happens.

  •  Cooked corn is not garbage. My family loves corn and I don’t serve garbage at our table. Cook corn causes fewer allergies than beef or chicken in pet food.

  • Shungakansas

    I’ve fed SD to the 5 dogs I’ve owned in the last 4 decades.   Dog #1  – small black spaniel mix from pound died of kidney disorder at 8.   Only problem other than kidney was white flake of dry skin – dog Dermatologist told me to daily add pure corn oil to her dog food/it cleared up the problem. Dog #2 Schnauzer mix –  died of old age dementia, very healthy all his life  Dog #3 MinPin/Rat T. died of old age Dog #4 is 16 years old with skewed kidney enzymes but seems very healthy now eating SD Renal Diet.   Dog #5 is a J. Chin/Poodle mix, 2 years old and way too fat.   Feeding SD Small Bites for Toy Dogs, including the Lite formula.    I’ve never had a fat dog – I blame the non-rawhide chew sticks from Iowa’s True Chews and my laziness..     I know SD gets a bad rap on the boards –   during a lively discussion of made in the US dog foods on a J.Chin group my post that I feed only SD caused a deafening silence  🙂    What a polite group – not one member attacked me for being a bad dog mommie.      My choice of SD started with my Vet and has continued becasue I live in a town with an SD plant.   I’ve heard rumors of the plant keeping dogs as test animals for the foods –    and then adopting out the animals to local families when they are not needed.   I’ve heard people are thrilled with these dogs and they are very hard to get.    RUMOR – but it reassured me through the years that their SD foods were as good as their marketing.     I was very relieved that my specific SD foods did not appear on the terrible recalls disaster a while back.  Was it 2007?     I would switch brands in a New York minute if another brand is somehow proven to provide a consistently better nutrituon.    So many debates on dog nutrition, so few solid scientific studies.   Hello to you all, I just discovered this website this evening while googling buffalo jerky for dogs  🙂    Donna 

  • Shungakansas

    Just fed my 2 small dogs a bit of Science Diet Ideal Balance Jerky Strips With Real Beef.     Beef, wheat flour, wheat starch, oat groats, dextrose, flax seed, natural flavors, chicken fat….   I can tear off a small piece for my geriatric Yorkie/Chi mix and give the pup the rest of a strip.      The wonderful fragrance of the strips sent me to google the buffalo jerky I used to buy at an Interstate 70 Pet Store stop….    I haven’t found the buffalo jerky manufacturer yet….    But, what I like to do is store dog jerky treats in a bag of dry food (Science Diet for 4 decades) to enrich the dining experience of my pooches.

  • Acatsplace

    Hills is known for using BHA, BHT , & Ethoxyquin as preservatives in their pet food. These are toxic chemicals & have been banned from use in human food. Hills has touted these toxic substances as great antioxidants. The public has long been fooled by the use of the word anti-oxidant as being something that is good for you! All the word antioxidant means is “against oxygen.” While it is true that foods exposed to oxygen will degrade, it is fool-hardy to use toxic chemicals to stop it! I run an animal rescue & sanctuary & in 2007 when the big menu foods pet food disaster happened, I became concerned about all toxins in the pet food industry. I wrote a letter to Hills at that time about their continued use of toxic chemicals as preservatives in their pet foods. Below was their response. I also find it curious that for years Hills taught pet nutrition in veterinary schools & contracted with veterinarians to sell their line of foods. Tell Hills that continuing to use BHA, BHT & Ethoxyquin will not be tolerated by consumers. So if they want to change their formulas they can start with that. Let them know that consumers are not stupid & we care for our pets even if they obviously don’t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Here is the response from Hills:Hill’s Pet Nutrition, Inc.Dear Ms. ———– :Thank you for taking the time to send us your additional e-mail. I apologize for the huge delay in responding to your email.Hill’s® Prescription Diet® Feline k/d® canned and dry products are safe to feed and were not part of the recall activity.Ethoxyquin is an antioxidant/preservative that has a long history of safe use. Approved for use in animal foods by the FDA more than 35 years ago, it is used to prolong shelf life of foods and prevent rancidity and the loss of nutrients. Ethoxyquin is considered by veterinarians, nutritionists, and food scientists to be one of the most effective preservatives/anti-oxidant available.The FDA allows Ethoxyquin to be used as a safe and effective preservative- Ethoxyquin is highly effective at trace levels and is particularly effective in the preservation of fats and oils as it remains stable at high temperatures which are used in pet food manufacturing.- The majority of our Prescription Diet dry products contain a mixed preservative system of BHT and BHA with no Ethoxyquin added at our manufacturing facilities.- However there are some product formulations that are extremely sensitive that we continue to add Ethoxyquin to in trace amounts due to ethoxyquin’s high effectiveness at trace concentrations.I understand your concern with ethoxyquin and will certainly share your comments with R&D and Marketing. If we can be of assistance in the future, please let us know.Sincerely,Jamie SlawsonManagerConsumer Affairs001257031DJAS2US/cl

  • InkedMarie

    Welcome the forum….as you’ve already read, the actual forum is up & running. 

  • Mike P

     Hi LL75
    Welcome to the DFA!! Looking forward to your post…

  • Toxed2loss

    Hi LL75,
    Dr.Mike just got the Forum portion opened up this last week. It’s just starting to take off. It will take us some time to get accustomed to posting our stuff there, and shifting our friendly dialogs. But if you check out the red dashboard bar at the top of the review you’ll see the link. 😉

  • LL75

    Jeeze people, this is my first visit to this site and for a few moments I felt a bit like I’d slipped into a chat room instead of a dog food forum. After reading through most of the comments directed at whoever the “guest or anonymous” person is I began to sense what’s going on a little better. 

    I’m not sure about needing to scroll through all the social stuff to get to what I’d like to read but if that’s how this forum works it’s not that big a deal, just takes a little more time, that’s all.  

    If I understand “Dr Mike’s” comments there will soon be some changes made in how the site is organized. From the sound of it there will be separate sections or threads for social interaction of members and others for evaluations, recommendations, etc., and that would be a positive thing. I think so, anyway.

    Overall it sounds to me like this is a great place to learn about people’s experiences with different brands of food and how they affected their own dogs. That first-hand experience is a far cry from the self-interest promotions as proffered by the manufacturers and well worth sorting through a bit of unrelated dialog.  

    I’ll stop by once in awhile just to see how things are developing and who knows, maybe one day I may have something to add? 

    Thanks to all for a fun few minutes spent on Christmas Eve!


  • Pattyvaughn

    Many of the vets I know don’t really like science diet either, but it’s easy.  They don’t have the time to research what would be best for every dog that they see that needs a special diet and they think good enough is good enough.  The biggest problem I see is that they assume their client won’t do the research either so pet parents don’t even know they have options or that there are better choices out there.

  • Kip

    the vets just look the other way, some are changing but most of the older vets are stubborn and like the perks Hills gives them

  • Kip

    still loaded with corn, get the corn outa there and maybe I would change the way I feel about them

  • kaylee

    Science Diet is garbage. Wouldn’t feed it now. Won’t feed it then. Shame on vets offices for selling it

  • Ktvceo

    Although they have made new changes that clearly sound like they are for the better.  My Black Russian Terrier is on the large breed for sensitive stomach food and she has had insane diarrhea, horrible gas all day, and is vomiting.  The only thing that has changed in her diet is the food therfore, it is clearly the root of the problem.  She has been on this food for two years without issues until the new food change that I purchased this past Saturday.

    Make sure you have a sitter or will be home with your doggy kids because their system may not adapt to the changes easily!

  • Sydney2319

    What about CORN???? Will they get rid of that?????

  • Excellent! I wish that when I was going through a bunch of different foods early on and finding many that weren’t working, that I had kept labels from bags and/or made notes as to why they didn’t work. That way I might have been able to isolate troublesome ingredients, etc. You’re not too early in the game to do that. Glad you found something that’s working for him.

  • Ktriemstra

    Much better then before changed his food to Nutra Max. We toss some yogurt in his food once or twice a week and it seems to help. He goes days now without issue, before it was a non stop carpet bombing of pure stink. 

  • Shawna

    Ktriemstra ~~ allicin, a chemical in fresh garlic, kills MRSA and other antibiotic resistant superbugs..

    Medical News Today
    “Tests by Dr Ron Cutler, a microbiologist, showed it can cure patients with MRSA-infected wounds ‘within days’, he said. Allicin, which occurs naturally in garlic, not only killed known varieties of MRSA, but also new superbug generations resistant to ‘last-resort’ antibiotics such as vancomycin. The findings will be published in the Journal of Biomedical Science in the new year.” http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/5056.php

    I’m not aware of any in vivo research but I do know a gal from Mercola Healthy Pets forum that used garlic for her pet’s systemic MRSA and it killed it too..

  • Hey Ktriemtra, How’s your little gassy boy? What’s he eating these days?

  • Ktriemstra

    Sorry their is an “ed” after the word call in the last sentence. And P.S. anonymous if you have found something that will kill MRSA as indicated in you epic post please let me know, I would like a piece of that action. 

  • Ktriemstra

    The power of the kibble is strong in you anonymous, but you still need to seek guidance in the circle of the canine Jedi. I have seen the dark side (actually smelled it) and this Facebook of dog food as helped me not only with my 4 legged stink machine but also my bobble headed 5 year old son who thinks the world is his personal toilet. So without much a ado I am off to Claudais’s Cuisine Dog Candy Recall post, not because I would buy such a product, I am just curious if they use real dog in this so call “candy”.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Sorry John that you didn’t make the list but it’s because he doesn’t like the ladies.  Have you noticed how much nondogfood chat he is responsible for?

  • Honeybeesmom

    You must have “sought” out Shawna for whatever reason, because you could have easiley targeted me. I’m a newcomer here..and my first 4 posts were angry and nothing to do with pet food or health. 

    You did read them because you posted Shawna’s comments to me.
    Shawna is a very well LOVED person on and off this site.

    And I did read someone said they were glad when Shawna starts her “rambling” because she helps us in ways we can understand.

    I know Shawna from another pet site…and she was just as loved there..as she is here.

    I feel all that rambling you say Shawna does…to me is music to my ears.
    I can’t tell you how much I’ve learned from her.

    And yes, I’m on yet ANOTHER user name. LOL
    Lost the paper of the other password.
    I’ll proabaly end up getting deleted from this site.

    Just 2 wks ago…I went inside department store, only to hear my name being paged that I need to get to my car.
    I walk out to find an officer and a stranger there.
    I had forgot to put my charger in park…and it rolled and hit a truck.
    Oh, I’m rambling on..lol

  • doggonefedup

     I’m glad to see you are preparing for the colonoscopy! However that long rambling post you made sounds like diarhea of the mouth……..Most people prepare for the colonoscopy by clearing out the other end…… I guess in your case, Well, to each his own!

  • doggonefedup

    Sorry John,
    When I posted my reply to guest yesterday i just din’t consider you one of the “rambling LADIES” ;0} I just consiered you one of the “”many more equally as enlightening” posters. :~> 

  • Mike P

     Whoa Labs i liked this comment…I  wish there was a Love option !!!

  • One thing that’s for sure, GueST, Anonymous, whomever… really posts some “interesting” comments on some other forums. Clearly, s/he watches a lot of TV, loves Big Bird and is bitter about a helluva lot more than dog food. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. ; )

  • Shawna

    LOL!!!!!!  I was thinking the same thing…  HEY, what about Johnandchristo???  LMAO 

    Thank you 🙂 Big hugs!!

  • Johnandchristo


    The lady’s you refer to as repeat offenders, I refer to as angels. They have helped me and many many others countless times. And quite frankly I’m a little insulted that I was not on that list.  

  • Pattyvaughn

    Hi guest

    So you’re Anonymous now.  You didn’t need to change your name on account of anyone here.  I should inform you that you just posted a VERY LONG post that had nothing to do with dog food.  And your last post didn’t either, it happens but maybe you should consider setting a good example and sticking to dog food.

  • LabsRawesome

    Guest/Anonymous, While it is a violation of this sites rules to post under various names, it is perfectly fine to “chat” about things that may not be dog food related. You’ll just have to skip over the posts that don’t interest you. There is no rule that you have read all posts. Also, what gives you the right to come into our community and start kickin’ over trash cans?? I suggest you stop acting like a D!CK!!!!!!

  • Shawna

    How many people have you helped on this site Anonymous??  Most of these were questions asked of me (or in general).  Would you suggest we ignore the questions?

    I’ve posted 3872 comments.  Yeah, in all those I’m sure it’s easy to find off topic chatter.  However, you’ve posted a total of 2 comments and neither of your 2 have been on topic?????  hmmmmmmm

    Why don’t you worry about yourself and let Mike worry about me and the others you mentioned..  mkay

    By the way, it is against site rules to post under different names (first guest, now anonymous).  I’ve never broken site rules..  Just sayin.. 😉

  • Anonymous

    Thanks, Mike, for advising that there will be a separate section for ad hoc disucssions.  Surely there are plenty of good comments made by many valuable contributors, but posting random, non-related rants and raves takes away from the purpose of your wonderful site – to read nutritional reviews by you and comments from other pet owners about THOSE PRODUCTS.  The tangents about anything and everything non-dog food related are distracting.  Here are just some examples from one user.  Note the last one where she self-identifies as a rambler.  Enough said.

    {{Yeah 🙂  My cell phone tracks the time I spend on each call.  I enjoyed the conversation too!!  🙂  My grand daughter was miffed that her dinner was so late though!!!!  😉 }}{{Just got it…  I’ll try to reply tonight but my email is acting up… grrrrrr  If not tonight, I’ll try again tomorrow.That’s a pretty intense panic!!!  My daughter’s ex-boyfriend used to panic himself into an asthma attack once in a while!!}}  {{LOL!!!  Don’t “walk away”!!!!!!  Most conversations are nothing like this one :)…  I’ve had this site bring “out a different side of me” too a few times.  A side I’m not too proud of.  But, take a break and come back destressed and see how or who can put you right back there needing another break again!!  🙂  hee hee}}{{PS — ever wonder why you would have to “prepare” for a colonoscopy?From Harvard Health website”You’ll need to stop eating solid foods the day before the colonoscopy, and starting the evening before the procedure, you must take a substance that triggers bowel-clearing diarrhea.”}}{{Round two 🙂 I’m the queen (I think) of rambling :)..My family uses garlic for everything.. My daughter was having her guts come up and mine was going down — not sure if food poisoning or what but we both ate raw, fresh garlic and we both were clear after several hours. I continued one more dose and my daughter did not. She apparently didn’t clear enough of whatever and she started getting ill again a day later. More garlic and she too cleared the bug.We also use garlic for pink eye, ear infections, flu/cold symtpoms etc… We RARELY go to the doctor.. I’ve gone once in probably the last 7 or 8 years and that was when I broke my foot last Christmas..Peel garlic (or buy already peeled) and put the garlic in a jar filled with olive oil (enough to cover the garlic). This will keep it from drying out and going bad. Can be stored this way for quite some time. The olive oil cuts the bite significantly and doesn’t seem to damage the effectiveness. Take it out as you need it. My 2 year old grand daughter will eat garlic (raw garlic) this way..Garlic is WONDERFUL when used as a salad or veggie dressing. Olive oil with a clove or two (or more if you’re like me 🙂 freshly ground into the oil (I use a chocolate grater — EXTRA fine) and spices (we like Braggs Sprinkle). Use the dressing within 20 to 30 minutes of making for the most benefit (the most allicin). We like it on salads and fresh steamed green beans or brussel sprouts.. YUMMMMMMMGarlic has inulin and FOS so is a prebiotic to the good gut bacteria (while killing the bad guys). Garlic stimulates the immune system (the macrophages if I remember correctly) for several days after eating. Kills MRSA, yeast etc..Of course, it is counter indicated in cases of anemia or if surgery is expected it should be discontinued before the surgery..We grow wild garlic in our back yard :).. See, I told you I was a good rambler :)…}}

  • LOL!! I thought the exact same thing when I saw who guest was replying to in the first place. I had to go back and read Ktriemstra’s comment just to see if I missed something.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Or***gasp***actually ask the question you want answered.

  • InkedMarie

    Glad I’m lumped in with Toxed, Shawna & Patty! 
    That said, I do agree with this guest that there is alot of chatting going on, even though it is allowed, I will be glad when the other forum is up and running so the chatting can go there.
    Until then, guest and anyone else, you will just have to scroll through to find something you want to read

  • Pattyvaughn

    His reading comprehension needs some work if he thinks he is agreeing with what Ktriemstra said.  Just sayin’

  • Dear Guest,

    I’m sorry you feel frustrated with some of the discussions here.

    However, the individuals you specifically mention in your comment are valuable contributors to this community and have logged many thousands of hours helping many of our visitors solve their dog feeding problems.

    You asked me if I have any solutions. And thankfully, there will soon be a new forum here on our website.

    This will allow registered members to introduce their own topics and post questions for discussion with other participants.

    This should take much of the unrelated traffic away from the comments section of our reviews.

  • doggonefedup

    The Chocolate wine……one word….AWESOME!

  • doggonefedup

    Hey Guest,
    Sorry to hear you are so frustrated. Sounds like a personal problem to me. Shawna and Toxed2loss are two of the most knowledgable people I know. Their “conversations” have provided some great insight to health problems for both dogs and humans. I find the Ramblings of inkedmarie, pattyvaughn, aimee, hounddogmom, BetsyGreer, Melissaandcrew, Labsrawsome, and many more equally as enlightening and yes sometimes quite comical. I have learned a lot from all of them and hope they all continue to share their knowledge and experiences with all of us and if we can enjoy a good laugh at the same time all the more better. Nobody is forcing you to stay. There are other review sites you can go to. All the people you are whining about are all the same people that make this the best of the best dog food review sites period! Maybe a colonoscopy would help you…….  

  • Mike P

     There is plenty of dog food info on this site.The people you tried throwing under the bus are some of the best contributors on DFA.We are a community and most of the talk is about dog food.We also like to have a little fun.Stick around and get to know some of us folks and even you may slip in a funny every now and then.

  • Guest

    Well said!  I, too, am frustrated with coming to this website for dog food information and seeing that other users are using it as a personal chat forum.  Dr. Mike, any solutions?  By the look of things it would seem that there are some easily identifiable repeat offenders (inkedmarie, toxed2loss, shawna, pattyvaughn, etc.)

  • Hi Victoria,

    I’m sorry you feel I “got it wrong” or that I was paid by anyone to write it. After all, this article is only a news report – not an endorsement of any of Hill’s products.

    Please take the time to actually read a few of my ratings for Science Diet and you’ll see I’ve never shown any bias for or against this (or any) brand.

    By the way, as it clearly states on my Disclosure Page located and linked to in the footer of every one of the more than 700 detailed reviews on this website…

    “I do not accept money, gifts, samples or any other incentives from pet
    food manufacturers in exchange for special consideration in the
    preparation of my reviews or ratings.”

    By the way, statements like this are subject to the rules and regulation of the US Government’s Federal Trade Commission.

  • Victoria, You’ve apparently overlooked the reason why Dr. Mike singlehandedly initiated Dog Food Advisor in the first place. Personally, your accusation that Dr. Mike would in any way ever receive financial compensation from Hill’s is offensive. Please familiarize yourself with the site and try reading this article, also written by Dr. Mike: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/pennys-tragic-story/; and I’m sure it’ll shed some light on Dr. Mike’s personal crusade to educate pet guardians about the foods they choose to feed.

  • Shawna

    I was recently told to try chocolate wine and whipped cream vodka.. I have both. Just waiting for the right frame of mind to partake.. 🙂

    Personally, I’m not at all fond of Science Diet foods or company.

  • Ngomez:  get him on a Raw Prey Model diet and he will become healthy!  Don’t feed him that processed food.  Also, find him a classical homeopath who practices on pets.  With the raw and a very well trained homeopath you won’t even recognize him.  

    Please contact me via Twitter @victoria2dc if you need help getting him well. Science Diet is the worst thing you could give him (without knowing it of course).

  • Mike: You must make money off of this @#$%. No matter what they do to it, it’s still processed food. Carnivores eat raw meat & not processed or ground frozen patties! You got it wrong bud.  

  • Wow, isn’t 175 for A Rotweiller awfully big?

    Ngomez, this website isn’t affiliated with Science Diet, or any other dog food brand or manufacturer. Dog Food Advisor is an impartial blog that is without bias and which is committed to evaluating the ingredients of hundreds of dog foods to help you make an informed choice as to what you choose to feed your dog.

    If you’re trying to communicate a concern to Hill’s regarding their products, you’ll need to contact them directly. If you’re looking for a food to replace it, and you have questions, ask and there Re lots of folks here how are willing to help.

  • Pattyvaughn

    This is a review about dog foods, not a dog food company.  If you don’t know what to do, go to brotherscomplete.com and read their Brothers Document to learn more about what bad dog foods can do to dogs, and what good dog foods can do for dogs.  Pay special attention when they talk about leaky gut and systemic yeast infections.  Good luck!!

  • Ngomez

    I am very upset that you have discontinued your low allergen dog food. It was the only food my 175 pound rottie could tolerate. The ultra low allergen formula gave him such diarrhea he lost 20 pounds in a month. Under the guidance of my vet I am trying another type of prescription food and at week 2 he is scratching his ears again, licking his groin and having loose bowel movements. I don’t know what to do.

  • Ktriemstra

     MMM..I will have a bowl of that for breakfast in the morning. Maybe if Science Diet would focus on like 5 or 6 products  instead of trying to find their way into every nitch in the dog food industry I bet it would be a top notch dog food. I think they are in the right mindset of putting out a quality product but they have more offerings then Pringles has flavors. Oh,well anyone else have any new booze concoctions?

  • InkedMarie

    I don’t drink very much but recently discovered Capt Morgans spiced rum with gingerale. Yum!
    Ok, back to dog talk. Maybe.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Here I thought it was Hitchhikers Guide to tthe Galaxy or maybe Labrinth.  Yes, I have a serious drinking problem.  His name is George and he drinks nasty beer.  And before you get any ideas, no, it’s not my SO, George is a good friend, who keeps us sober.

  • Ktriemstra

    What kind party did I stumble into? I was enthralled with what changes Science Diet made to it’s product (not really I was just aimlessly clicking) and I come upon these comments that sound like a scene in Easy Rider. I  wanted to see what started this thread of dog food debauchery, but I stopped at the guy who wrote he sat on the corner of the earth and hurt his butt? I was in fear I came across one of those old AOL chat rooms where strangers in their boxer shorts asked you if I wanted to go to a “private chat room”.  I am with Patty the only difference is I had way more then 4 drinks and it was like 19 hours ago and not 19 years. (O.K. I guess their is a BIG difference). But I am proud of you Patty admitting you have a drinking problem is the first step in recovery!

  • Pattyvaughn

    You know it’s a funny thing, I don’t disapprove of alcohol, but in the last 19 years, I haven’t had more than 4 drinks.  I’m giddy and stupid without enhancements.  But I did have fun today!

  • Have you guys been drinking?

  • Pattyvaughn

    Yes, yes it is!!

  • So if I believe strong enough, I’ll be okay? This is awesome!

  • Pattyvaughn

    That being the case, fly whereever you want to go and don’t worry about falling.

  • “Gravity” is the invention of science, so I don’t believe in it. 

  • Pattyvaughn

    So gravity works different for you?  I know, if we’re going to live in our own little world, we can arrange it to our liking.  Right?

  • I’d travel to different parts of this world, but I don’t want to fall off one of the edges.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Be careful, some corners of this planet are sharper than others.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Good, no one can have too many friend, even if they are imaginary internet friends;-)

  • Tori

    It’s about damn time!!! But still, I think this will still be crap food…

  • One time I sat on one of the corners of this planet and hurt my bum.

  • Shawna

    I think I LOVE you guys!! 🙂

  • Pattyvaughn

    Yes!!!!  I’m not the only one who lives here any more!!!

    Welcome to my world.

  • square?

  • Pattyvaughn

    And what shape is your world?

  • Pattyvaughn

    When corporations manipulate science to get the results they want, it’s not true science.  Their brand of psuedo science is just more marketing.

    They aren’t really trying to find out what keeps dogs healthiest, just what keeps them healthy enough at the cheapest possible cost to them.

    And the thing is, healthy enough is good enough for a whole lot of people, so they would still buy their food.  But the fact that people feel they have been deceived by these companies is what makes a lot of them go away forever.

  • I seem to remember scientists once believing the Earth was the center of the galaxy. Not to mention that scientists also thought the Earth was round. I don’t think that was right.

    I’m actually a believer in science, but not when Mother Nature makes it pretty clear what’s best. I don’t need some Ivy-educated guy in a labcoat to tell me what’s a good diet for a dog. Animal Planet can do that better.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Oh yes, their brand of “logic” is definitely going to change reality.  They believe science can fix anything.

  • It kills me that people preach that science proves these foods are good. I mean, are they really telling me that evolution is wrong or not as good? Give me a break.

  • Pattyvaughn

    Don’t hold your breath waiting for a big improvement.  It will be microscopic, if it’s an improvement at all.  I’m obviously sceptical, but I think the “improvements” will be a bunch of science mumbo jumbo, after all they can “prove ” to you right now why their food is so good.  If it does have any real improvements, they would jack up the price an inordinant amount.

  • Bout time.