Forum Replies Created
It’s good to see you feeding raw twice a week. For most dogs this is a big improvement over ANY kibble!
Heart – I notice the meal you added the liver to was Beef Heart. Even though heart is a muscle, it is a different kind of muscle than the breast or leg or thigh, etc. The heart is a non-striated muscle, while the muscles everyone usually thinks about are all striated muscles.
I like to say that nutrient-wise, heart is about halfway between regular muscle meat (breast thigh, etc) and the much richer organ meats (liver, kidneys, etc). Now that is just an estimate. The point is that heart is richer than breast but not as rich as liver, so it should still be used in moderation (up to 20% of meal).
As others have said, the calcium in the Dinner Mixes is calculated based on meat without bone. So the extra calcium that would come from you adding bones is not needed, and could actually be detrimental!
This is what Steve Brown had to say about adding organs to his Dinner Mixes:
“Thanks for the note.
Yes, it’s okay to add muscle meat and some organ meat, but please don’t
add a lot of liver. Keep the liver to less than 10% of the total meat.
Adding up to 20% hearts is fine.
On a side note (cause I’m a dog man), constipation can be pretty common in raw diets ESPECIALLY if they contain bone! Your cat probably could use some fiber added to the Darwins to ease any constipation issues. I use a couple of different types. Psyllium husks are very fiber rich and I add no more than 1 teaspoon per pound of food. Flax, Chia and Hemp seeds are not as rich in fiber as Psyllium, but they are also good for the skin. I add about 1 tablespoon per pound of meat.
Keep up the Good Work!
I hope everything turns out well for Patch!!!
Here’s what I would do. I would switch back to wellness canned slowly. Over a week or so. During that time I would NOT change anything else in his diet!
If all goes well I would wait another week and try the probiotics. There is nothing inherently wrong with using Perfect Form and Probiotics together.
Nice technique with your switch Naturella!
GREAT ANSWER Susan!!!
Please stick to the facts of what actually happened here! You said:
“For yeast, my favorite kibble is Brothers Complete. It was formulated specifically to help yeasty dogs.”
And I asked:
“Can you please explain how this formula will “help yeasty dogs.
Any references you could present to back up this claim would be greatly appreciated!”
You then flew off the handle and along the way made FALSE accusations about me:
“It’s very rude of you to ask a question for no reason other than to try to start an argument, as you are well aware. You already know the answer, this has been hashed over numerous time here with you smack in the middle of it.”
1) I dearly hoped that I could ask you a question about the comment you made that brothers “is formulated to help yeasty dogs” without you starting a fight.
2) I do NOT know the answer to the question I asked you, AND I have never been “smack in the middle” of any discussion on DFA about brothers and the claim that “It was formulated specifically to help yeasty dogs.”
3) You and I and the other regulars are just a tiny percentage of the people who read these comments. Most people who visit DFA have NO IDEA what you are talking about when you refer to things that happened in the past!!
I ask you kindly to please refrain from making FALSE accusations about me, Thank You!
It is very very rude of you to make a statement like:
“For yeast, my favorite kibble is Brothers Complete. It was formulated specifically to help yeasty dogs.”
And then when asked:
“Can you please explain how this formula will “help yeasty dogs.”
You refuse to answer!
“For yeast, my favorite kibble is Brothers Complete. It was formulated specifically to help yeasty dogs.”
The ingredients and nutrient percentages for brothers venison formula are listed below (taken from DFA). Can you please explain how this formula will “help yeasty dogs.”
Any references you could present to back up this claim would be greatly appreciated!
Ingredients: Venison meal, dried whole eggs, turkey meal, pea starch, cassava/tapioca, pea flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E), dried chicken liver, pumpkin, ground flaxseed, alfalfa, carrots, potassium chloride, sea salt, choline chloride, dried whole cell algae (pure source of omega 3 DHA), mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, green tea extract, encapsulated probiotics (dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product), enzymes [amylase (Aspergillus oryzae), protease (Aspergillus oryzae), cellulase (Trichoderma reesei), lactase (Aspergillus oryzae), hemicellulase (Trichoderma reesei), lipase (Aspergillus oryzae), prebiotic (organic, long chain, highly branched inulin), vegetable pomace (celery, beets, parsley, lettuce, watercress, spinach), cranberry pomace, lysine HCL, dl-methionine, lecithin, taurine, vitamin E, vitamin C, vitamin A, vitamin D3, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, folic acid, biotin, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, l-ascorbyl 2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C activity), zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate, vitamin B12 supplement, l-carnitine
Hi Michael C,
Be careful of excessive calcium in foods for your puppy! Too much Calcium has been linked to serious problems in Large Breed Puppies!
All of the BROTHERS COMPLETE formulas are TOO HIGH in Calcium for a Large Breed puppy like your 10 week old “American Bandogge Mastiff”.
There are 2 places on this website to find info on foods for Large Breed Puppies. One place is in the Editors Choice section which has a paid membership and the other is in the forums under the topic: Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition
Good Luck and Happy Thanksgiving!
I took a look at their dehydrated dog food products:
ALL of the dehydrated foods have the EXACT same GA. The numbers add up to 100% when converted to Dry Matter. Here’s the PROBLEM, the numbers for ALL their dehydrated formulas are:
Dry Matter Analysis (Done by me):
Problem 1) Where are the carbs? They list fiber, but the ingredients show that there has to be a larger amount of carbs than fiber. There are 15 ingredients that contain carbs in EACH formula and the carbs are not 100% fiber so their fiber % is off.
Problem 2) The protein % is too high! In order for there to be 72% protein (DM) in ALL their formulas there would have to be very little carbs. Yet they list 15 ingredients with carbs in EACH formula. If this and all their other dehydrated products were 100% lean meat the protein % would be about 80%. 15 ingredients with carbs would bring the protein % LOWER than 72%.
Problem 3) They leave no room for ASH. There are minerals in the meat, vegetables and other ingredients in these foods, yet they leave no room for them in their GA which adds up to exactly 100% without them.
Problem 4) Can ALL of their dehydrated foods really have the exact same GA using different meat sources?
Problem 5) They list the GA wrong. AAFCO says the GA should be listed like this:
“guarantees are required for minimum percentages of crude protein and crude fat, and maximum percentages of crude fiber and moisture”
It looks like they list an AS FED analysis and not an AAFCO compliant GA.
Lovin’ The LAMB Dehydrated –
Guaranteed Analysis(on their website)
Rehydrated Moisture 75%,
Lamb with Lamb Heart, Lamb Liver and Lamb Kidney
Spinach or Kale
Cranberries or Blueberries
Seasonable vegetables & herbs may change – but NOT nutritional value..
Big Dan’s Trucking is NOT a farm. It’s a processing plant. There are NO live Cattle there to infect.
And I would never knowingly feed a dog anything that was denatured, or from 3D or 4D animals.
ALL of their BEEF products are denatured.
“We use a black denaturant (liquid charcoal), which is added to all of our products due to FSA, MN Agriculture, MN Commercial Feed, MN Animal Board of Health and USDA regulations. This is safe for all pet foods.”
“This is a Biosecured Area so you must have an appointment to pick up your order.”
That means they are trying to prevent their animals from catching a disease from you OR giving a disease to you. Big thumbs down for Big Dan’s Trucking!
Hi Rachel M,
One suggestion, have the default with NO boxes checked and let people check the boxes of the foods their dog HAS allergies for. It is a more intuitive way of doing it.
Brother’s Complete has sold old dog food more than once! When their fish formula (discontinued) was getting near it’s expiration date they let people know it was old and they sold it at a discount, when their beef formula (discontinued) turned a year old they didn’t give a discount or let anyone know how old the food was.
It was the “trolls” who forced Brother’s to list the expiration date on their website because the “trolls” let people know that Brother’s was selling old dog food. Even then Brother’s did not offer a discount and sold every last bag of the beef formula at full price! By the time the last bag was sold it was one year and two months old.
Hi Lihan Z,
I think you have a very smart dog there! Canned foods are a more natural diet for a dog than kibble. Canned foods are less processed than kibble, and don’t need a lot of inappropriate starches to hold them together.
Most kibbles contain meat meals (beef, turkey, chicken, etc) which in my opinion are one of the most inappropriate and low quality foods for a dog. If you are able to feed your puppy only high quality canned foods then that’s what I would do!
Good luck with your pup!!!
Hi jakes mom,
Please find out what type of insulin your friend is using for her dog, u-40 or u-100 and what syringe and needle she is using, IE 1/2 inch x 30 gauge. I would also like to know her routine for giving the injections, at what time, where on the dog’s body, how she does it (fast, slow, talks to him first, gives him a treat before or after, etc)
Hi Kellye P,
That’s Great News!! I am so very happy for you and Duffy.
I still wonder about the ketones that had showed up in Duffy’s urine in the past. I think it could be beneficial for you to buy a vial of Keto-Diastix. They are about $25 for a hundred and they are a urine test for ketones and glucose. My thinking is that if Duffy tests positive for ketones AND glucose in his urine then this will let us know that his ketones are due to high blood sugar and you would then take a closer look at his diabetes control. If he tests positive for just glucose then again you would take a closer look at hid diabetes control.
If Duffy tests positive for just ketones then it could be that he suffers from malabsorption of nutrients due to a pancreatic issue and you would take a closer look at how to get those enzymes into his system. Finally if he tests negative for glucose and ketones then you have determined that the issue is probably NOT related to diabetes or EPI.
I would test his urine first thing in the morning, 1 hour before meals and 2 hours after meals. You can do 1 test one day and at another time on a different day. I would try for at least 3 readings in each time frame so you have multiple readings to analyze.
It’s a low cost non-invasive at home way of ruling out or confirming whether or not Duffy is having any issues with his pancreas or glucose that hasn’t shown up on previous tests.
Anyhow I have a smile on my face for you and Duffy right now and I am hoping for the best!!!October 15, 2014 at 1:31 am in reply to: GSD with EPI – suggestions of low fat/fiber grainfree kibble #54803 Report Abuse
Hi CHRISTINE C,
How is her weight? Is it stable? If she is a healthy weight and not losing any weight, then considering her stool firmed up she is doing pretty good with the EPI.
The first thing I would would try is a lower fat food. Horizon Amicus, Senior and Weight Management Formula is:
If the low fat low fiber option doesn’t help, you can tweak the dose of enzymes a little. You could try 1 and 1 eighth teaspoons per cup of kibble if she doesn’t have any bad reactions like mouth sores or diarrhea or vomiting, etc.
Hi Dog Obsessed,
The fats in dry foods start to oxidize pretty quickly and they are going bad before you can see or smell any changes. The less time the bag is open the better. At 4-6 weeks the fats are what scares me and I think that is too long. 2-3 weeks is much better. For storage longer than 2 weeks of an opened bag of dry food I would place it in an air-tight container like an Omega Seal.
I would keep the food in it’s original bag and place it bag and all in the container. The reason is, if you empty the food into the container without the bag the fats in the food will start to build up on the interior walls of the container. Even though you will use up all the food every 4-6 weeks the fat on the walls will keep building up and keep oxidizing.
Hi Dori and BC and Cyndi,
A few tips on slicing meats for jerky that make it easier and cut down on smell! Take the meat you are going to slice out of the refrigerator and put it into the freezer for an hour or two. The goal is to get it to firm up without being frozen. So by trial and error you can find out how long to place the liver or chicken breast or ? in the freezer for it to be firm and ALMOST frozen.
I have a freezer with a special thermostat that I set at 24 degrees F and it gives me meats that are perfect for slicing.
Congrats on your new dehydrator Dori!!!
Hi Kristin C,
I use See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mixes as my main supplement. I also use Balance IT Carnivore Blend. For Omega 3’s I use canned sardines in water and I dehydrate calamari and salmon fillets with skin. I alternate digestive enzymes and probiotics (100 billion). For fiber I use psyllium husks, sprouted flax seeds, dehulled hemp seeds and ground chia. I use ground chia instead of whole chia seeds because I’m worried about the tiny seeds getting caught in their digestive tracts.
Hi cindy q,
I feed my guys a homemade diet of fresh pasture-raised meats, free-range poultry and wild-caught fish. I do not feed them any foods that contain ground bone because I lightly cook everything. Their diet is about 80% meats and 20% vegetables. They occasionally get organs and fruits. I lightly cook everything and I use supplements to make sure their diet is balanced and complete.
Thank you for getting that info from BDN! I am glad that BDN is working out well for you and your crew.
“I just spoke to someone at Big Dog Natural. They air dry their food at 80 – 100 degrees Fahrenheit for 24 hours.”
24 hours is a very long time to keep a raw food at 80 to 100 degrees F. Imagine taking a couple of pounds of any raw food that contained meat and vegetables and placing it outside on a 100 degree F Georgia day. Then take a powerful fan and have it blow on the food. Leave the raw meat outside in the 100 degree temps with the fan blowing on it for 24 hours. That is not a food I would feed my dog.
And pugmomsandy wrote:
“They’re bags of food do not have an ingredient or GA label. Just the name of the product”.
This lets me know that BDN is not following the regulations for labeling dog foods. That is not a good sign for me.
You also wrote:
“As I have said often in the past…..these issues that are being questioned back and forth may very well not sit well with some if this is the ONLY food you are going to feed your dogs”
The way this food is air-dried and the potential it carries for bacterial growth along with the lack of proper labeling are issues that would prevent me from using this food regardless of how many other foods were in my rotation.
Again, I am very happy that BDN is working out for you and your guys!
- This reply was modified 5 years, 11 months ago by USA.
I read the ingredient lists for BDN foods and I took this off their website:
“The final product is air dried between 80 and 100 degrees in order not to destroy the integrity of the raw ingredients. All processes of humidity, wind velocity and temperature are monitored and automatically altered when necessary. In this way, we produce a very high end product, that is not only very bio-available but also very much liked by the ones we are doing it for, our dogs.”
My concerns are:
1) They don’t say if 80-100 degrees is F or C, if it’s C then the temps would be 176-212 F and there would be no issue with bacterial growth but it would not be a very gentle temperature. If 80-100 degrees is F, that is a good temperature for bacterial growth. So if the air-dried process takes 8 hours then that food is growing bacteria until the moisture level gets to its finished state of 12% or below. In order to turn fresh meat and veggies into the granola consistency that BDN is, the time of drying at 80-100 degrees F would be 8-12 hours? Without knowing their process I can only guesstimate but even with very high fan speed (air movement) it could take 12 hours or more.
2) Bone, they use ground bone in the chicken, turkey and fish recipes. How finely is that bone ground and how brittle is it after the air drying. How much does the air drying increase the danger of the bone to the dogs that eat it? I don’t know but it is something that would be of concern to me if I were going to feed my dogs BDN.October 4, 2014 at 4:16 pm in reply to: Searching for a good Probiotic and Dietary Enzyme product #53875 Report Abuse
Thank you crazy4cats, theBCnut and Dori!
Dr Mike, I’m sorry if I jumped to conclusions!!! I will repost it later on if it’s not stuck in the spam filter or something. I didn’t save it so it will take a little time to do it again.October 4, 2014 at 2:14 am in reply to: Searching for a good Probiotic and Dietary Enzyme product #53807 Report Abuse
Dr Mike someone deleted my post on probiotics 2 minutes after I wrote it. That is disrespectful and rude. Why would you allow someone to delete a post where I took the time to compare the prices of different probiotics that were talked about in this thread on a cost per CFU basis?
Hi Kellye P,
What is his name?
I would use the 6X enzymes for the little guy, NOT the 8X enzymes. I would probably buy the 50 gram size to start.
The possible dangers seem to be mouth sores and diarrhea or other gastrointestinal discomfort. The risks can be minimized by adding water or unsweetened applesauce or yogurt to better spread the enzymes in the food and to activate the enzymes. Let sit for at least 20 minutes to help avoid possible mouth sores and to activate the enzymes
Full Dose – I teaspoon 6X powder per cup of kibble. 3/4 teaspoon 6X powder per cup of canned food. You don’t have to add water to canned food but you still have to mix well and let sit for at least 20 minutes.
I would start with a quarter dose. So for your little guy that would be 1/8 teaspoon 6X powder for a half a cup of kibble and 2 oz of liquid. If he doesn’t get diarrhea or any other side effects I would stick with this dose for 1 week. Then I would go to 1/4 teaspoon of 6X powder for each 1/2 cup of kibble and 2 oz liquid. If he still is showing no negative side effects I would increase the dose to 3/8 teaspoon 6X powder per half cup of kibble. I would keep the liquid at 2 oz. 1 week later I would increase to 1/2 teaspoon 6X powder per half cup of kibble and keep the liquid to 2 oz.
1/2 teaspoon per half cup of kibble is a therapeutic dose and if he has had no side effects he should begun to show signs of improvement if he is suffering from EPI.
You should weigh him before you start and then once a week until you can determine if he is gaining any weight. Hopefully he will!!!
Remember that this should be discussed with your vet. I am not a healthcare professional. These suggestions are what I would try if I were in your situation. Remember to add the liquid to the kibble and to mix well. Let the kibble sit for at least 20 minutes before feeding. For canned foods you would just add the powder and mix well, then let stand for at least 20 minutes before feeding.
Good luck and keep us updated!
Hi Kellye P,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
I’ve been thinking about the Ketones in his urine and what would cause that other than high blood sugars. Ketones are a sign that his body is looking for alternate sources of energy and he is starting to use stored fat as an energy source. It points to a problem in getting energy the usual way which is through his diet. Canine Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency (EPI) is when the pancreas no longer produces enough digestive enzymes to break down his food into usable energy. This could be why he throws up if he eats foods high in fat or if he eats more than you are feeding him now. It could also be responsible for his weight loss.
Treatment for EPI includes replacing lost pancreatic enzymes. The types and amounts of enzymes needed would be different from the enzymes you are giving him now. I would think about trying the enzymes because it would be a pretty low risk solution if it works. I would also start slowly and get up to the full recommended dose for him over a couple of weeks to see how they are affecting him and to minimize any side effects. This is a link to a place where they sell the types of enzymes you would need without a prescription and at a decent price:
I would order a small amount of the 8X version to try out. Here is a link to an overview of how to use enzymes for EPI:
And lastly here is a link to an overview of canine EPI. There is a lot of useful info on this website:
Good luck and please keep us updated. We all are hoping for the best for you and your little guy!!!
Hi Kellye P,
“During the days he was not getting insulin, his glucose levels were right around 250. However, his urine test showed ketones. The specialist said that did not make sense. My vet said she probably would have taken him off insulin if he stayed at 250 without it. The ketones messed up that plan, though. Nobody has any explanation as to why he had ketones. I think that is the key to the weight problem but I have no idea what it means.”
This is from the Merck Veterinary Manual:
“The normal fasting value for blood glucose in dogs and cats is 75–120 mg/dL”
With a blood glucose reading of 250 mg/dl I am not surprised that he had ketones in his urine and I don’t know why anybody thought that 250 could be a reason for taking him off insulin. 250 is HIGH!
Ketones are a sign that your body is starting to burn fat instead of glucose for energy. This can be a sign of poorly controlled Diabetes and I don’t think it was a mystery why your pup had ketones in his urine with a blood glucose reading of 250 mg/dl when a normal blood sugar for a dog is usually between 75 to 120 mg/dl.
Would you mind posting his last 2 or 3 Fructosamine and thyroxine (T4) test results please? Losing weight can be a symptom of poorly controlled Diabetes and/or an overactive thyroid and that’s why I would like to know the actual numbers of the tests.
Sorry for you and your pups troubles!
Hi Kellye P,
I am so sorry to hear about your little guy.
When you say his glucose levels are good can you tell me how often he is tested and what his numbers are please? Has he had a Hemoglobin A1c Test or a Fructosamine test, both of which will show your dog’s average blood sugar over a couple of weeks or months? High blood sugars could interfere with glucose metabolism and cause weight loss.
He is also on thyroid meds and a high thyroid level could also cause weight loss. Does he take thyroid medicine once or twice a day? He should be taking his meds twice a day not once. His thyroxine (T4) levels should be tested about 4 hours after giving him his thyroid medicine and should be high normal to about 25% over normal.
Does he just stop eating after he eats a certain amount of food? Would it be possible for you to feed him 25% more than you are feeding him now?
Please let me know these things so we can all try to figure out how to help your little guy gain some weight.
Water Buffalo horns are NOT naturally shed every year. They are harvested from dead Water Buffalo or cut from live Water Buffalo. Because they are not shed annually and renewable like Deer and Moose antlers are they worry me. I fear that some companies are selling ones that are cut from live animals and that some companies are selling horns from dead Water Buffalo that may have been diseased or dead a long time.
Sorry but I always worry when there is the risk of mis-treating live animals or selling parts of animals that are 4-D or worse and I believe those risks are much higher with Water Buffalo horns than with Elk or Moose antlers.September 5, 2014 at 1:24 am in reply to: Searching for a good Probiotic and Dietary Enzyme product #51251 Report Abuse
I’m a big fan of probiotics for gut health and for overall immune system benefits. The one I use is expensive but if you calculate the cost per billion cfu’s it is the least expensive. I take one daily and I split one between my 2 dogs. Each capsule contains 100 billion cfu’s and 34 different strains of probiotics.
Serving Size: 1 Capsule
Servings per Container: 30
Replenish Blend – 100 billion CFU
ISS Bif™ Bifdobacterium lactis (SD-5219), Lactobacillus acidophilus (SD-5221), Lactobacillus paracasei (SD-5218), Bifidobacterium lactis (SD-5220), RAW Whole Food Probiotic Blend: Bulgarian Yogurt (milk) Concentrate, Eastern European Wild Kefir Culture containing Bifidobacterium lactis, Bifidobacterium longum, Lactobacillus acidophilus, lacotbacillus brevis, Lactobacillus bulgaricus, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus fermentum, Lactobacillus helveticus, Lactobacillus kefiranofaciens, Lactobacillus kefirgranum, Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Lactococcus lactis, Lactococcus cremoris, Streptococcus thermophilus, Lactobacilus kefir, Lactobacillus parakefir, Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactococcus lactis biovar diacetylactis, Leuconostoc lactis, Leuconostoc mesenteroides, Leuconostoc cremoris, Leuconostoc dextranicum, Kluyveromyces marxianus, Brettanomyces anomalus, Debaryomyces hansenii, Saccharomyces unisporus, Saccharomyces turicensis, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Saccharmomyces exiguus, Torulaspora delbrueckii
Protein Digesting Enzyme Blend – 50 mg
Protease, Acid Protease, Protease S
Eastern European RAW Fruit and Veggie Blend – 45 mg
Red Bell Pepper (Fruit), Green Pea (Seed), Carrot (Root), Plum (Fruit), Cherry (Fruit), Strawberry (Fruit), Raspberry (Fruit)
Yes, typical new appliance smells. I use an eight or ten inch chef’s knife like this one.
http://www.amazon.com/Sani-Safe-S145-8C-PCP-Cooks-Polypropylene-Handle/dp/B004NG98TG/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409804154&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Dexter-Russell+%28S145-8C-PCP%29+-+8%E2%80%9D+Chef%E2%80%99s+Knife+%E2%80%93+Sani-Safe%C2%AE+SeriesSeptember 3, 2014 at 8:24 pm in reply to: Is vegetarian dog food a blessing or a curse to your dog? #51103 Report Abuse
Hi milly w,
You forgot that many people become vegetarians because they are ethically opposed to the raising and/or slaughtering of animals for food. This is why I became a vegetarian.
I feed my dog’s pasture raised meats and wild caught fish because I worry about the suffering I could be causing by depriving our pets of their natural and species appropriate diets.
- This reply was modified 6 years ago by USA.
Hi Dori and Cyndi, you are both very welcome!
Please clean the trays and interior of the dehydrator before first use. Then make a dry run to further insure that any thing offensive is gone. First try the highest temp and see how they are after 10 hours. Then adjust time and temp to your preferences. I slice the meats to about 1/8 of an inch and I would recommend you go no thicker than a 1/4 of an inch. Once you hit a 1/4 of an inch the outside of the treats will cook faster than the inside and it could take longer than 12 hours to make a treat that doesn’t go bad without any preservatives. Of course you feed raw so making a softer treat with more moisture in it is always an option for you.
Organ meats can be pretty odiferous and tripe could cause your neighbors to send you nasty letters. But some people don’t mind at all. Fish is pretty high up on the stinky list too!
Hi Hendrick C
I’m sorry you and your pup are going through this! Seizures have many different causes and the first thing I would do is get a complete blood panel and a physical exam for your Shih-tzu ASAP.
Regarding flea and tick meds I would NOT use ANY of the edible or spot-ons (topical). Frontline, Advantage, Revolution, Sentinel, Nexguard, ALL contain NEUROTOXINS. They work by affecting the nervous systems of the offending insect and causing paralysis and death. They have definitely caused seizures in dogs. The theory is that Mammals (dogs and humans) are much less affected by these chemicals than insects are. But humans and dogs are affected they just don’t immediately drop dead as the insects do.
I would switch to a “greener” and more “holistic” approach to insect control. There are essential oils with a much lower chance of toxicity than the neurotoxins that work at repelling and eliminating fleas and ticks. There are boric acid and diatomaceous earth options for indoor flea and tick control and beneficial nematode options for outdoor flea and tick control.
I wish you and your pup the best!!!
The oven doesn’t work as well but I think you are on to something! Dori (or anyone else) should probably make some treats in the oven first while they find out if making jerky is something they are going to stick with. Once you are making jerky regularly and want to go to the next level of quality and/or volume than the investment in a dehydrator seems more justified.
For an oven you would put it on the lowest heat and leave the door slightly ajar for better air circulation. For jerky that will last a long time without preservative you would cook until it it pretty hard and breaks easily into smaller pieces. For a raw fed dog like Dori’s you could cook it less because the dog is used to dealing with bacteria but you would only make a couple of days worth at a time (it will spoil) unless you freeze it.
You must remove any external fat from the neat before you slice it (no thicker than 1/4 inch) because fat goes rancid fast no matter how long you cook the jerky.
I am fearful of using anything other than 100% stainless steel for dehydrating foods. Plastics even if they are “food safe” and “BPA free” scare me.
I would stick with a stainless steel dehydrator that has stainless steel trays (some have chrome trays). I would NOT use a dehydrator that contains any plastic or chrome. I would also stay away from the dehydrators that blow from the bottom up. You want to get a dehydrator that has the fan and heating element in the back so it blows across all the trays evenly.
Amazon – 5 trays all stainless steel
Amazon – 10 trays all stainless steel. This is the first dehydrator I ever bought and I still use it at home for my pups
Hi Mike Sagman
“So, frankly, I find your criticism of her efforts here surprising and unwelcome.”
This is what I said:
“HDM recently made these comments regarding her list of foods for Large Breed Puppies. Some of the foods on her list do NOT conform to AAFCO nutrient profiles.”
My statement is based on Hound Dog Mom’s reply to aimee in this discussion:
I applaud her efforts and contributions to this website. The fact that some of the foods on HDM’s list do NOT meet AAFCO nutritional guidelines for ANY AAFCO LIFE STAGE is very relevant to her list and is something I think that people reading this blog have a right to know. And frankly I think your criticism of me letting your readers know about this is more about the fact that Hound Dog Mom works for you than it is about my comment, otherwise you would be thankful that I pointed this out.
This is DIAMOND’s own website. It lists Taste Of The Wild as one of the foods made by DIAMOND.
HDM recently made these comments regarding her list of foods for Large Breed Puppies. Some of the foods on her list do NOT conform to AAFCO nutrient profiles.
“When I made the list all I went by (as stated on the list) was calcium level reported to me by the company and the AAFCO statement. I didn’t take the time to investigate into whether or not the foods did indeed comply with AAFCO’s requirements. To be honest, until you brought it to my attention (aimee) I had no idea that there were so many foods claiming to meet certain nutrient profiles when they don’t actually conform to these nutrient profiles. I for some reason placed a little more faith into the regulatory agencies than I should have and assumed all that was regulated.”
At this point, while I still think it’s useful and can serve as a good starting point for lbp owners to start selecting foods, the list hasn’t been updated in while. However, due to the upcoming lbp project for Editor’s Choice I can’t justify taking the time to weed through the list and update it.”
The Editor of DFA Dr Mike rates foods based on their meat content. The meat content and the protein from meat is a lot higher in the Slice and Serve.
The term “not for human consumption” applies to ALL dog foods. It has nothing to do with the quality of the ingredients. The minute a food is labeled for dogs it is now “not for human consumption”
Foods like raw or green tripe and any food with ground bone are never allowed for human consumption. Foods like beef, chicken and salmon whether they are the highest quality and “human-grade people food” once they are labeled as dog food they are not for human consumption. It is a regulation thing.
Hope this helps
I’m so sorry that Otis is having these issues.
Some of the risk factors for canine pancreatitis are:
Obesity – This is the one you have the most control over. For now I would stick with the 1 cup / day of Hills I/D GI Restore. I would cut out all the treats except the sweet potato you use to give Otis his pills. This will cut some calories from his diet and he may start to lose a little weight. Try to stick with this diet for 8 weeks or so unless any issues develop.
Phenobarbital and Potassium Bromide – Both of these are drugs are used to treat canine epilepsy. I know that Otis is on phenobarbital for his epilepsy. This could be a factor in his pancreatitis. Did your Vet ever discuss this with you? Which came first the epilepsy or the pancreatitis? Either way you should talk to a Vet about the issue of pancreatitis and phenobarbital.
I wish Otis and you the best of luck and I hope Otis has many happy days ahead of him!!!
“Experimentally compounds that mimic the hormone CCK result in pancreatitis. In these studies high amounts are given.”
From the book you referenced: “Applied Veterinary Clinical Nutrition 2012”. Caps added by me:
“EXPERIMENTAL PANCREATITIS can be initiated by HYPERSTIMULATION with CCK ANALOGS (Morita et al. 1998; Saluja et al. 2007), BUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THESE MECHANISMS IN SPONTANEOUS DISEASE IS UNKNOWN.”
The book says they used CCK ANALOGS, NOT CCK and that HYPERSTIMULATION was induced. This is different than the CCK released during a high protein and/or high fat meal eaten by a dog! And the book also says “THE IMPORTANCE OF THESE MECHANISMS IN SPONTANEOUS DISEASE IS UNKNOWN.” So the book admits that they don’t know the importance of their findings for dogs who get pancreatitis in the real world and not from hyperstimulation of the pancreas with CCK analogs in the lab!
You also wrote:
“The most potent dietary stimulation of CCK is fat. Protein though also stimulates CCK release.”
What the book actually says is: (caps added by me)
In dogs, fatty acids (Sun et al. 1992), amino acids, and peptides stimulate CCK release, BUT INTACT PROTEINS DO NOT (Meyer and Kelly 1976).
What are the intact proteins the book references? Are they the proteins in a raw or lightly cooked fresh homemade diet of lean meats, poultry and fish?
I’m sorry to hear about your BC.
Before we talk about Salt can you please tell me exactly what his diagnosis is? Which type of DI does he have? What medicine were you prescribed at what dose? Did you try it?
A 5 month old puppy chewing carpets can be anything from normal puppy behavior (most common reason) to something nutrient related to a behavioral issue and so on. I would not rush into a nutrient deficiency diagnosis so quickly!
Before anyone can suggest any supplements for your puppy can you please tell us his current diet including treats please be as specific as you can.
What is his day like? Yard, Walks, Toys, People always around? How much time does he spend alone? Does he sleep and spend any other time in a crate?
Can you please also tell us what brand/type of shampoo and conditioner that you use and how often you bathe him.
And can you please tell us any medicine he is currently taking, including flea control. How much and how often and his vaccine history.
And last but not least has he had any blood, urine or fecal tests run and were there any abnormal or out of range results.
Is there anything you would like to add that will help us to know him better?
I don’t mean to pry but you must take into consideration the WHOLE dog to start figuring things out. Looking at a symptom or a behavior without knowing more about a dog usually results in treating a symptom instead of curing the cause of the symptom by returning the dog to complete and overall optimum health. This may not always be possible but starting with the whole dog is the way to go!!!
Keep Up The Good Work!!!