[texasniteowl]

Jeff…in recent years it seems like people advocate rotating a couple of foods. Sometimes, but not always, a couple foods from the same brand but with different proteins. But you can also rotate completely different brands of food.

/frequently-asked-questions/diet-rotation-for-dogs/

[texasniteowl]

Hi everyone. I am the OP and well, I am back.

Since April, we have been thru several bags of the new US version. We alternate the Lamb formula and the Duck formula. Last Monday, the 19th, we started a new bag of the Duck formula. Well, the last 2 days, my lab mix, Wilson, has been miserable. A ton…TON…of paw licking…he had licked it so much he was limping yesterday. Today he has not been able to get comfortable. His belly is pink. His muzzle is pink. His ears are pink. And he vomited/regurgitated part of his evening meal after going outside to eat some grass.

We’ve actually been dealing with ear issues since July. But the agressive/extreme paw licking, etc. is recent.

I am concerned that it might be the food.

I am strongly considering feeding him chicken and rice for a few days and trying a different food.

I have no idea what though. We’ve been on Acana for about 2 years now so I have no idea what to try!

[texasniteowl]

Well, a quick update. We are about 2 days into the new bag and so far so good. I switched cold turkey just like we always do between bags and no side effects so far. We will keep an eye on it for another few days.

I will probably go ahead and look for another brand to move into the rotation. Not sure what yet. But wouldn’t be a horrible thing to have a 3rd bag mixed in with the Acana Duck and Lamb formulas.

[texasniteowl]

Thanks for all the info. I am reviewing!

jakes mom…raw bones are a no go. Wilson has a rear tooth, molar? that has an enamel defect. my vet says a lot of vets would say to pull it. however he is more conservative and as long as it is not inflamed/infected/abcessed, then he is in favor of leaving it in. so far so good. my vet doesn’t even want me giving Wilson bully sticks, let alone bones.

I will look into the different flavors of toothpaste, or even the coconut oil paste. And I will look into the additives. I know I had heard of some you add to their water daily too. But obviously I hope I get him to accept tooth brushing!

[texasniteowl]

Hi folks. I just joined Editors Choice because of this change today. I have been feeding my dog Acana Singles (alternating Lamb and Duck) for over a year, maybe 2 yrs. When I stopped by my pet store today, they let me know that it is coming out of Kentucky now. I was a little apprehensive but bought the bag anyway (Lamb).

Does anyone have more information on this change and the product coming out of Kentucky? In the regular forums, it was mentioned that someone found plastic pieces in their Acana Heritage food?! Also, the ingredient listing DID change.

chewy.com lists the old ingredients and the new formula:

Ingredients
Lamb meal, deboned lamb, green lentils, red lentils, lamb liver, apples, lamb fat, green peas, yellow peas, canola oil, algae, garbanzo beans, pumpkin, carrots, lamb tripe, lamb kidney, freeze-dried lamb liver, kelp, chicory root, ginger root, peppermint leaf, lemon balm, mixed tocopherols (preservative), dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, zinc proteinate

New formula: Deboned lamb*, lamb meal, whole green peas, red lentils, lamb liver*, lamb fat, pinto beans, chickpeas, herring oil, green lentils, whole yellow peas, sun-cured alfalfa, Red Delicious apples*, natural lamb flavor, lamb tripe*, lamb kidney*, lamb cartilage*, dried kelp, whole pumpkin*, whole butternut squash*, kale,* spinach*, mustard greens*, collard greens*, turnip greens*, whole carrots*, Bartlett pears*, freeze-dried lamb liver, freeze-dried lamb tripe, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, zinc proteinate, mixed tocopherols (preservative), chicory root, turmeric, sarsaparilla root, althea root, rosehips, juniper berries, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried bifidobacterium animalis fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product. * delivered fresh or raw

We are scraping the bottom of the bag of his last bag, so I am going to go ahead and try the new, but I am nervous and unsure.

[texasniteowl]

Hmm…we will see how things go with this new bag of Acana Singles: Lamb. I better not find any plastic pieces in it! I suppose if Orijen is still produced in Canada I might have to relook into which Orijen formula to try if the new Kentucky plant Acana doesn’t go well.

I don’t think I have a bag of the old Lamb left to compare with (since we alternate and are on a bag of duck right now). I am going to go look for sure right now though.

[texasniteowl]

Just want to mention, that if they live in the country, it is possible that a local feed store may carry Victor. Also, Taste of the Wild. Now, I’m in Texas, and not every feed store around me carries Victor, but one close to me does. There are feed stores out there that carry more than just Purina. In addition to Victor, mine carries Nutro, Canidae, Blue Buffalo, and Nature’s Variety among others.

The Victor Dog Food web site does have a “Find A Dealer” link and is accurate for my stores.

http://www.victordogfood.com/

Of course, online is good too.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by texasniteowl.

[texasniteowl]

I thought I would come back with a brief update since it has been a while!

After the Orijen we went to Acana Singles…the Lamb and Apple and he did very well on that. We finished the 13lb medium bag. Now we are still on Acana but trying the Duck flavor and we are still doing well. We did a cold turkey switch from Lamb to Duck with no problem.

I am still not giving him a powder supplement, but he is getting “active culture” greek yogurt. His poo overall has been good…mostly normal…except for the day after obedience class usually when he gets a few more treats than normal!

I want to identify 1 or 2 more foods that he does OK with so that I have a 3-4 food rotation. We may try a bag of Nature’s Variety Instinct LID next as an option. Then not sure on a 4th. I may try the Orijen Adult again just to confirm whether it was the food or just the timing that caused him to not do really great on it. But we may just stick with foods in the 30-35% protein range.

[texasniteowl]

Sue, thank you for your response too. I did wonder when I started the Orijen Adult if maybe it would be too high in protein and/or fat for him. It clocks in at 42% dry matter protein and 18% fat. Although it seems that higher protein is typically recommended more often now.

His previous kibbles were:
Fromm’s Grain Free Salmon Tunalini which was 31% dry matter protein and 16% fat. Before that was a grain inclusive Fromm’s 4 Star Duck and Sweet Potato which was only 27% dry matter protein and 15% fat.

I suppose I could try the Wellness CORE Reduced Fat…it is still higher protein (37%) but only 11% fat and then also try something that is both lower protein and lower fat. Back to my dog food excel spreadsheet!

Do you have a particular probiotic suggestion?

[texasniteowl]

Thank you Betsy for replying. I too wonder about all the foods going to chickpeas and lentils. I don’t know at the moment if it is an issue for Wilson or not. The Orijen Adult does contain them, but fairly far down the list. I’ll post the ingredients below. It is primarily poultry and fish based.

Thanks for mentioning the NVI LID. I had considered trying them though I wished the protein was a little bit higher. He has had both duck and lamb before so even though they wouldn’t be novel, I could try them. And at 32% dry matter protein they are worth trying. Other than that, I have more ingredient checking to do. His most recent kibble before the Orijen was fish based (Fromm’s Salmon Tunalini) and of course, he had a month of chicken and rice.

Firm Up? Who makes that? I assume it is similar to THK’s Perfect Form?

I will check out the Swanson BioCore enzymes and I know Swanson probiotics have been recommended on these boards a lot too.

Thanks!

Orijen Adult Ingredients
Boneless chicken*, chicken meal, chicken liver*, whole herring*, boneless turkey*, turkey meal, turkey liver*, whole eggs*, boneless walleye*, whole salmon*, chicken heart*, chicken cartilage*, herring meal, salmon meal, chicken liver oil, red lentils, green peas, green lentils, sun-cured alfalfa, yams*, pea fiber, chickpeas, pumpkin*, butternut squash*, spinach greens*, carrots*, Red Delicious apples*, Bartlett pears*, cranberries*, blueberries*, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, Enterococcus faecium.

[texasniteowl]

Well…time for an update…not a great one…

Since my last post, we continued with the Orijen Adult. By last Sunday, I had Wilson on all kibble, no chicken and rice. And we seemed to be doing well. Pretty good poo, etc. Now, let me clarify, no supplements of any kind at this point. No probiotics. Just kibble…Orijen Adult.

Let me also make sure I clarify that I had been feeding him on a 3x a day schedule, so 3 smaller meals.

Anyway, we seemed to be doing pretty good. Some variation in poo softness but overall good.

However, the last 2 nights (Saturday & Sunday) we have gone downhill a bit. Late at night, just before his last meal (aka midnight snack) he has gone outside to eat grass…which he had not been doing in about a month or so now. And his poo is destabilizing. The first stuff out will look OK and then becomes much softer. Not watery as far as I’ve seen, but very very soft. And he moves around quite a bit and ends up poo-ing in 3 to 4 spots.

Now, with his midnight snack tonight, I’ll add some pumpkin in. Is it time to try something like The Perfect Form? Next, I need to get some probiotics I guess. Any suggestions for ones that are available locally in stores? Or something that ships quick? Like I said above, my feed store sells Probios but I wondered about the sugar content. I do have some Kefir in the fridge…should I try to start him on that?

I guess the other question is, instead of adding supplements, do I give up on the Orijen and move him to something else?

And I suppose I could take a poo sample back to my vet and ask them to look at the bacteria again?

[texasniteowl]

Thank you all for the replies so far. I had seen most of them when I stopped by the pet store on my way home. I ended up essentially taking Melissa’s view. We have done OK for the last 4 days with the sample of Orijen, so I bought the 15lb bag to continue. Still working slowly in. We are at about 1/4 cup now so I will begin increasing that and see how it goes.

Depending on how things continue to go with the poultry based Orijen, my next bag may be a novel protein just to see if there is a noticeable difference or not.

In future, I will rotate between other foods…once I identify some! I do have a feed store that carries Victor so Victor, Nature’s Variety, Acana, Orijen and Wellness and Fromm’s could all be in the mix.

I do want/need to add some probiotics. My feed store carried one called probios? The woman there said she gives it to both her cattle and her kids! However, if I remember right, one of the first listed ingredients was sugar! So not sure about that.

[texasniteowl]

Thanks for the reply…and the reminder about Acana. I really wish the Classics were available. I liked the look of the Light & Fit and Senior products. And I guess I just wasted some time reading ingredients lists for those.

And no, I haven’t really seen any weight gain so I will ignore fat % for now I suppose.

As for novel…I know there are some out there, but finding novel and limited is tougher than I thought it would be. I picked up one brand’s “rabbit” kibble and the 2nd ingredient was salmon meal! And several beef or venison foods also contain lamb.

So, for novel I need to look for: beef, venison, rabbit, pork.

He has had: chicken, lamb, duck, fish. I’m also presuming turkey is close enough to chicken and duck that it would not be novel. His Fromm’s Salmon Tunalini also had sardine meal in addition to the salmon and tuna, so basically, most fish is out.

The new flavor Acana Singles Pork & Butternut Squash is a possibility…but only 31% protein.

The Nature’s Variety Instinct LID Rabbit is a possibility also.

I may go ahead and stick with poultry for a full bag…well, like a 15lb bag…which should last 3-4 weeks and then rotate through some others even if they are not novel to see how he reacts. A 3-4 week supply will give me a good idea of whether something works for him or not.

[texasniteowl]

Thanks ladies. I’m starting to mix in the Victor’s Salmon to his normal Fromm’s Duck & Sweet Potato. The Acana/Orijen foods are still on my list to try as is Nature’s Logic at the moment. Also since we’ve done well on the Fromm’s I will likely try one of their grain free’s too.

As for toppers, Wilson pretty regularly gets some yogurt or pumpkin or cottage cheese. Only recently did I buy a small can of tripe and he loved that so I’ll probably pick up some more ;>

[texasniteowl]

Thanks! I’ll check out Nature’s Logic and Dr. Tim’s.

Sorry you did not hear back from the guy at Victor’s. That would probably turn me off too…but we’ll see how Wilson does with the 5lb bag I picked up.

I did wonder about the lentils and such in the Orijen/Acana. My other pet store, not my feed store, had little 12oz bags of Orijen & Acana so I picked up a bag of Acana Pacifica and Acana Grasslands. I figure if nothing else, I can use the kibble as treats since we are doing clicker training!

I’d consider the Earthborn Primitive but since we had problems with the bison one (Great Plains?) we probably won’t try it.

[texasniteowl]

Well, I returned the Earthborn back to the store today and we are going to go thru another bag of the Fromm’s Duck & Sweet Potato before we try a different grain free. Even with yogurt (plain greek) and/or pumpkin his stool just was not consistent in any way. So back to his old food and as soon as the swanson order arrives I’ll start adding probiotics/enzymes/fish oil and then choose another grain free (kibble and/or kibble plus topper) to try.

[texasniteowl]

All right…at this point, this post might belong in the supplements area…but it is due to this thread, so staying here. I blame all of you for the $100+ order I just made at Swansonvitamins. OK, mostly for me but also for Wilson…I ended up choosing to go with:

Probiotic: Swanson’s Dr. Langer’s Probiotic. Since it was Buy One Get One, that is a bottle for Wilson and a bottle for me to try.
Enzymes for Wilson: NOW Foods Optimal Digestive System. A human “serving” is 2 capsules (per meal), but Wilson will probably get 1 per meal. I also ordered the NOW Foods Plant Enzymes. It would also be suitable for Wilson it looks like so we’ll be sharing these 2.
Omega 3 for Wilson: Carlson Salmon Oil softgels. Omega 3 for me but which would also work for Wilson: Carlson Elite Omega-3 Gems.

6 other items on my list, but all for me ;>

[texasniteowl]

So I’ve been looking at probiotics and enzymes today and I definitely can see that some of the better quality/higher rated pet products resemble human. I was looking at NWC Naturals Total-Biotics as my top “pet marketed” choice and the Swanson products (both the Soil Based and the Dr. Langer’s Ultimate) are pretty similar! For Wilson’s size, the Total-Biotics ends up costing about 26 cents a day. The Swanson Soil Based is 11 cents a day (no FOS prebiotic though) and the Langer (on sale) is 12.5 cents a day (though when not on sale would be 25 cents a day).

I was also looking at enzymes…now I know a lot of people rec. the Mercola and while I don’t know exact numbers, their website says it has the following:
Betaine HCI
Ox Bile Extract
Bromelain
Papain
Pancreatain 4X (Protease, Amylase, Lipase)

Well, guess what I found…2 human products that have the same ingredients. NOW Foods Super Enzymes has the same ingredients plus Cellulase and 180 capsules is $15.53. Likewise, Swanson Premium Digestive Enzymes has the same plus Diastase and Cellulase and 180 tablets is $9.39.

I’m pretty tempted right now to order the Swanson Langer formula probiotic and one of the human enzyme products. At least while the Langer is on sale.

[texasniteowl]

Thank you both Patty and Hound Dog Mom for your input. I recognize that RAW may be best but it seems intimidating and/or time consuming and/or expensive…and prepackaged/prepared *is* expensive. (Wilson weighs a little over his target weight of 62lbs…we’re currently at 66lb and going down slowly.)

So we do need to stick to dry kibble…at least for now.

I guess I’m leaning towards sticking with the bag of Earthborn Great Plains…at least to finish it…don’t know that I will buy it again. I do have some pumpkin I can add to his meals so I hope that will help with the alternate straining/soft movements. (Also, for what it’s worth, the Great Plains has a guaranteed protein of 34%…lower than the primitive at 38% yes, but much higher than the Fromm’s he was on (27% iirc).)

I will start looking at the options again to try to figure out which to try next. Also, I *am* open to using a topper…either freeze dried or canned. I suppose I just need to account for the calories, right? The rough calorie spot for Wilson’s kibble is 950-975 calories/day. He’s not extremely active…we do around a 1 mile walk daily and he doesn’t get all that many treats. On the Fromm’s, this target had him losing very slowly so I could cut it slightly a bit more, but I’m OK with the extra 5-6 lbs coming off slow.

I have been planning to add fish oil…or Omega 3…supplements. Am confused on amount…do I worry about the amount of epa/dha individually or combined? Example, one product I am looking at has a serving of 2 capsules. That serving contains 360 epa and 250 dha (with the two combined being 610). Is that enough for a dog his size or should I be looking to double that?

I had also been starting to look into Probiotics…HDM I see you listed several human probiotics…no problems with these? I had been looking at Nusentia’s Probiotic Miracle or NWC Naturals Total-biotics but the Swanson for example would be much less expensive.

sigh…apparently I can write novel like responses as well as original posts ;>

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