Forum Replies Created
November 10, 2016 at 8:24 pm in reply to: Bulldog allergy help? #91301 Report Abuse
So today, my parents got back to me and they had finally taken him to the vets instead of a Dermatologist like I recommended. Anyways, the vet did do a scrape test which came out to be nothing. He thinks he has some sort of disease which my parents can’t remember what it’s called which just makes them loose there hair and can spread if not taken care of properly. He said it is very rare other then most small dogs get it.
My parents bought some shampoo from our tractor supply store that is suppose to be anti fungal. I asked if it was Malaseb and they said no and I asked for the ingredients used which they sent me this
2% benzalkonium chloride
I know Most researched Malaseb shampoo uses chlorhexidine Gluconate, I tried searching if there was a difference between the two and I couldn’t find anything other then tests that came back working the same. Was wondering if anyone knew if they are practically the same? or is that a specific ingredient that will help better or differently.October 28, 2016 at 8:01 pm in reply to: Bulldog allergy help? #91022 Report Abuse
@anon101, thanks for the information, greatly appreciated! I noted to them about seeing a dermatologist.
@Pitluv, I highly doubt it is hot spots, we had another k9 that was diagnosed with hot spots before and this is completely different in my opinion as well. I will note to them also to start giving a annual salmon oil supplement, as well as tell them about the Malaseb as i’m not sure what they are currently using during baths.July 30, 2016 at 3:30 pm in reply to: Determing the best food for my Lab #88729 Report Abuse
I’d definitely recommend Fromm or Annamaet. Currently my bud is on Fromm 4 star and has never had an issue for the past 4 months. Annamaet I’ve always had in my rotation and always does excellent. Hope this helps! 🙂July 30, 2016 at 3:17 pm in reply to: Merrick owned by Purina #88728 Report Abuse
I fed Merricks originals and then went to their back country mix once it came out. After I heard Purina took over months back, I decided to also keep an eye on the mix and how my dog reacts to it.
The last two bags I had gotten first being the game bird, second being the red meats, he completely would not eat the food. A few bites and he would walk away. I also noticed he started itching a lot more, thinking it was fleas or something I decided to give him a bath and do a test and he had zero fleas. I figured it had to be the food then. I threw both bags out in the woods and switched him to Fromm food for now. He’s been on Fromm for 4 months now and so far doing strong.July 25, 2016 at 1:31 am in reply to: tripe #88520 Report Abuse
@zcRiley Yeah, the thing with Trippet is they use carrageenan which for obvious reasons I won’t be feeding to my dog. Petkind does have the other tripes called “That’s It” which doesn’t include carrageenan. I am not wanting to order offline though and it’s hard to find in my area. Thanks though for the help 🙂
@pugmomsandy Thanks for the info as well, I just asked to join and been reading a ton on there raw diets information on there page. Very interesting!September 30, 2015 at 9:55 pm in reply to: wild game meats #78935 Report Abuse
zcRiley- thanks for the reply!
I don’t really feed my dog anything raw, on a very rare occasion i’ll give him raw pieces of chicken breast or beef cubes, but that is like maybe twice out of the year. I cook everything I give him, mostly into stews or soup like foods. I use everything as a topping for his dry kibble. For example I just had done Venison cooked and pureed with spinach, apples, sweet potato. I usually make a huge mixing bowl of it all and then put it into containers and freeze it and grab one container at a time out when needed. He gets about 2 cups a day over his dry kibble.
I have several recipes made up I’ll be making. I was just wondering about squirrel since i’m tempted on going out squirrel hunting a lot this year. I was concerned mostly because I have been told they’re super high in grease and oil contents. I appreciate the reply though, thanks a ton!September 12, 2015 at 11:17 am in reply to: Need help with dog food please #78129 Report Abuse
I can concur that a higher grade kibble you would feed less. I had my dog sparks on a low budget food for 2 years and when he started forming issues is when I switched to a higher grade. When he was on the lower budget I was giving him a whole bowl full and just leaving it sit and he ate whenever he wanted. Now I give him 1 cup of the higher grade kibble, with toppings and he’s kept the same weight the past year with no changes except positive changes. His skin and coat are very smooth and he isn’t shedding as much as he once was.
I suggest going with a higher grade kibble as those that are being recommended and feeding them at a measurement that should be right for your dogs weight. I believe it would help more then you think for there coat and skin issues.September 10, 2015 at 9:54 pm in reply to: Need Advice Regarding Home Cooked Food #78072 Report Abuse
Nick G- Glad that worked wonders for you as it did for me! I spent countless hours on there reading.September 10, 2015 at 3:33 pm in reply to: H-E-B Heritage Ranch premium dog food? #78058 Report Abuse
Lorraine C- That’s exactly correct. A lot of companies say there food is produced in the USA, however that does not mean there ingredients used are from outside the USA.September 9, 2015 at 2:30 pm in reply to: "Meal" as first ingredient #77995 Report Abuse
Frances A- The only thing you have to worry about in meals especially fish meals is making sure they don’t use ethoxyquin. It’s a chemical preservative used to keep the fish meal from going rancid quickly.
In regards to that, I don’t feed my dog any fish meal or any fish dry kibble foods. Now this is from research I have done, but dogs shouldn’t have a large portion of fish as there daily diet. This can result in thiamine (Vit B10) Deficiency which can result in poor appetite, loss of weight, seizures. If I tend to want to give the dogs fish I usually buy fresh wild caught and cook it myself and add it to there food which I usually do twice a week.
TLDR: Fish meal is the only meal you really have to worry much about. I’d stay clear of it! Hope this helps!September 9, 2015 at 2:16 pm in reply to: Need Advice Regarding Home Cooked Food #77994 Report Abuse
This is the site I use to make sure I have the right amount of food needed to sustain the right nutritional value the dogs need. It explains down to each measurement of each category. Hope it helps!September 9, 2015 at 2:00 pm in reply to: Purina's acquisition of Merrick #77993 Report Abuse
C4D- I forgot about Earthborn actually. Thanks for reminding me about them!
Pitlove- no problem, maybe i’ll do as suggested and if i’m down towards the store that carries from i’ll stop and pick up a bag to throw in the rotation to give it a try.September 9, 2015 at 2:39 am in reply to: Chronic diarrhea #77954 Report Abuse
I agree that Zignature kangaroo would be worth a try as I’ve heard in the past from another that had the same issue with his dog and it seemed to work great for him.September 9, 2015 at 2:33 am in reply to: Purina's acquisition of Merrick #77953 Report Abuse
Pitlove- Yes I have used Fromms store locator and the the closest place is an hour and a half away that carries it. That’s the thing since I put sparks on Merrick his coat became so shiny, his skin so soft and smooth, and he doesn’t shed nearly as much hair as he did before hand. That’s why i’m sticking with Merricks unless I see a huge difference which should be easy to tell if Merricks decides to not keep to there word. I appreciate the recommendation though 🙂September 8, 2015 at 8:59 pm in reply to: Purina's acquisition of Merrick #77932 Report Abuse
Pitlove- I haven’t given Fromm a try yet. Though, like I said in my previous post for even my family member that was looking for a cheap food that they would have to order it offline and I would have to do the same. I’m not one to shop online really. Another company I was told to try was Holistic Blend and i’ve been told good things about but that is also hard to find. I mean i’ll probably try Natures Variety since it’s locally unless I hear anything about them, but I haven’t heard anything yet.
Lazaro B- Canidae was one of the first foods I actually tried for sparks and he would not even get near it. I moved on to Under the Sun a few months later since it’s actually cheaper then there regular food and also he did not want to touch it. Not saying not to give it a try obviously on your end, but I hope it works well for ya!September 8, 2015 at 7:58 pm in reply to: New to home made as toppings #77928 Report Abuse
I was wondering also just out of curiousity and I tried searching this online but to no avail did I find a direct answer. I’m a huge outdoors man and I hunt every year and with thinking of starting his toppings being homemade, would squirrel and rabbit be okay? I haven’t really heard of anyone feeding those before. Hope someone can relate to that lolSeptember 8, 2015 at 7:56 pm in reply to: Purina's acquisition of Merrick #77927 Report Abuse
C4D- That might be true, but i’m not just going to up and switch and not give them a chance to hold there word. Especially since it’s a food my dog has been doing great on the past 5-6 months now. Also, it being one that I can afford monthly.
If perhaps something does change, I’m not sure what I would switch too as i’ve tried multiple foods that fit my budget and he did not care for them. I’ve tried, Natures balance, Blue, wellness core, and a few others. I think the only ones I have not really tried are ones that I can’t really afford monthly. Like Orijen, Acana, etc…
I’ve always wondered as I rarely hear much about Natures variety and I know there a top star food. Are they a good company or?September 8, 2015 at 4:56 pm in reply to: Purina's acquisition of Merrick #77919 Report Abuse
I had also sent them an email last night right away after I read this thread.
This was there response to a huge paragraph I sent them.
We want to assure you that Merrick will continue to operate independently here in Texas with no changes to our recipes or ingredients and absolutely nothing from China. Your welcome to check with us any time for assurance and any questions.
Have a great day~
Pet Parent Relations, Merrick Pet Care, Inc.
http://www.merrickpetcare.com | http://www.castorpolluxpet.com
Join us on Facebook!
I mean, for now I’m going to say I will trust them as again I’ve never had issues with them and honestly I had called them several times and even there customer service is great. I’ll be sticking with Merricks as pitlove just replied till something seems off or sparks seems to start having issues on it.September 7, 2015 at 8:54 pm in reply to: Purina's acquisition of Merrick #77892 Report Abuse
I happen to have my dog on Merricks back country dry kibble. He’s been on Merricks for just over half a year now. This is the only food that I found he liked and didn’t cause any issues. He has a stomach hernia and the littlest things can effect him. Merricks has been perfect!
I’m glad that you have left us know about this. I really hope Merricks sticks to what they’ve been doing and not changing things around. That scares me quite a bit as i’m sure since they only did it to get there name out there more that they will try to go a cheaper route and a faster way to make the food for supply and demand.September 7, 2015 at 7:45 pm in reply to: New to home made as toppings #77889 Report Abuse
Red- Thanks, I already know about the food table for dogs as I’ve done so much research into it months ago. There’s a thread I had made that’s several pages long with going over things because my dog “spark” has a stomach hernia. Though I appreciate the reply! 🙂
DogFoodie- Yeah I don’t give him potato all the time it was just a rare occasion. I’ve been using a site that a few people from here actually recommended a long while back.
Great site for a list of basic foods that are great and a ton of information as well.
I was thinking of taking that list and coming up with meals that would be served as a topping on the dry kibble. I assume it’s better then most if all can foods out there. Plus he seems to enjoy it way more. Anyways, thanks for the information 🙂September 7, 2015 at 2:31 pm in reply to: Old English Bulldog Tips #77881 Report Abuse
Sorry I never got back to an update for ya. I’ve been very busy with personal issues happening. Anyways, to throw an update up I have got them to finally go with Merrick’s and accept the price. Yeah it’s sort of expensive, but it’s worth it in the end.
Like I said they were feeding the dogs Diamond food. They realized the dogs weren’t eating much if it like they should be. They also would not even touch the food unless something was added to it which obviously gives you a clue of they don’t like it! So after they had told me this I thought about it and ran over a whole container full of the Merricks for there dogs to try. She’s said the past few days they’ve been eating every bite and even when it’s dry without any toppings and so they’re going to stick with it.
Thanks for the help everyone!August 27, 2015 at 11:40 pm in reply to: Old English Bulldog Tips #77619 Report Abuse
Pitlove- Actually they started him out on puppy food, at this point I couldn’t tell you what kind of puppy food they were feeding him. After he turned 6 months they were told by the vet they could switch to adult food, but limit him to 3/4 of what the bag says to give him and add toppings to it. They’ve been giving him chicken, salmon, and veggies into his diet on a regular basis as toppings.
He is I believe at his full growth far as the vet told them as well, and weighing at nearly 40 pounds or maybe a little more as I haven’t asked in a little while. He looks very healthy I can tell you that. Perfect weight for his size as well.
I’ll mention the Fromm, but I had looked it up and the closest place that sells it is about 40 minutes from us so i’m not sure that will work out well. I’ll give Eukanuba a try as well and see where that can be bought.
Susan- Ah, yeah the Olde English Bulldogs are the original breeds, I don’t know to much about the breed, and not sure how they came about the other breeds of bulldogs we see today. Olde English Bulldogs are hard to find as well.August 27, 2015 at 9:17 pm in reply to: Old English Bulldog Tips #77607 Report Abuse
Susan- As Pitlove said, I did not mean it as he is old nor was he rescued. His breed type is an Old English Bulldog, and he was adopted new born and is now 9 months old. I should of been more clear on that sorry for the confusion and thanks though for the tips!
Pitlove- That’s exactly what I tried making them understand. There is no brand of dog food out on the market specifically for any type of breed of dog. I actually never thought about Fromm as I had completely forgotten about them. I’ll have to mention that to them for sure! However, there budget is really low, they’re both retired moreless and do not have such a great income. I think that’s why they veered towards Diamond as well since it’s so cheep and sold locally as well.
I’ll mention Fromm, and I’ll also have to check where that can be purchased around here as I never seen it at any of our pet stores. Buying offline would be difficult for them as well since there not tech savvy nor know how to do so.
Thanks Pitlove and also great to hear form you again! I’ve been throwing Naturella emails once in a while since you guys last helped me. We’ve recently discussed about organic home grown pumpkins and pumpkin seeds ground up for my sparky. I’ve been giving him a teaspoon daily now and it’s been doing great.August 18, 2015 at 2:21 pm in reply to: injured dog and healthy food #77255 Report Abuse
Red has given many great suggestions towards taking steps on helping you provide better care. I have a beagle as well and you can check my thread out I had made a few months back as my beagle was abused and also has very bad stomach issues with constipation.
Suggestions I found that worked the best is definitely finding a great substance and well balanced food. I have been feeding Merrick’s Back Country for the past 4 months (basically since they came out with it) and he enjoys it. The thing that helps the most is what you give him with it. I have my beagle on a schedule of different things to help with his constipation. I also feed him about 2 cups of canned food on top of his dry food.
1 TBS Coconut Oil twice a week
1 TBS pumpkin organic, or sweet potato once a day
2 TBS Kefir, cottage cheese, plain yogurt every few days
The coconut oil will help with allergies, skin issues, and constipation.
Pumpkin and Sweet potato have several health benefits, vitamins and are high in fiber
Kefir, yogurt, both bave natural prebiotics and probiotics for the stomach
Other things I give him once in a while are:
Sardines or any fish cooked
swanson soil based organisms
Cheese cut up into bite size pieces
Canned Green Tripe
Now far as the legal issues go, I do agree with red that you might want to look into that as something could be done. Especially since the fireman himself was speeding. Hope this helps though and keep us updated on how things work out for ya!June 14, 2015 at 6:08 pm in reply to: Coconut oil Recommendation #74391 Report Abuse
Thanks Naturella for the other sites as I’ll check them out right now. I happened to bought another bag of Merricks Back Country for him for now.June 12, 2015 at 10:37 pm in reply to: Coconut oil Recommendation #74323 Report Abuse
Great Pitlove 🙂
In my other thread I had mentioned I was working on buying a bag of Orijen to try out. I found out non of my local pet stores sell it and nor can they get it in from there distributor apparently. I was thinking of just ordering it offline, can anyone recommend a place online that is decent and cheap? I tried chewy, but to me amazon has it cheaper then them. Chewy always seems to be more expensive.June 12, 2015 at 10:34 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #74322 Report Abuse
Great to know Bobby, thanks again!June 12, 2015 at 1:20 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #74291 Report Abuse
Wow, thanks Bobby. That site is great for showing what is toxic and non toxic. I was surprised how much of a list it actually has. I agree some they have listed are questionable, but that is just something that common sense should think about.
For instance they have no raw meat bones, but everyone on here would probably disagree to that lolJune 12, 2015 at 1:10 pm in reply to: Coconut oil Recommendation #74290 Report Abuse
Wow, thanks everyone for all the recommendations! This will definitely help me out as I was having troubles finding other brands. 🙂June 8, 2015 at 12:27 am in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73950 Report Abuse
That would be great Bobby! Yeah I have a book that I had got from a friend that has like the most known ones listed that dogs shouldn’t have, but that is it. I also end up freezing a ton of fruit as well. We have SOOO many bushels of black raspberries here that I usually end up freezing around 4 gallons a year or so during the season. We also just recently last year found Tea-berries growing in the woods and been collecting them to freeze. So I do happen to have a ton of natural foods around, but I wouldn’t have the last idea what would be “okay” to feed him. I assume most of all berries are fine since you can find them all in the wild anyways.June 7, 2015 at 9:42 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73924 Report Abuse
I wanted to add I fed him some ricotta cheese today on top of his Merricks and he enjoyed that a ton. I know one of you posted a link to taking kefir and fruit and making frozen treats out of it. I was wondering what fruits are best or are allowed for that matter. I know some fruits including grapes especially dogs can’t really have. I have a garden of my own that I have strawberries and blueberries growing all naturally as I don’t use pesticides or anything. Was wondering if they would be okay to use.
I also have home made sweet potatoes growing and was going to mash them up and put them on his food once in a while. 🙂June 7, 2015 at 7:35 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73921 Report Abuse
Naturella- yeah i’m going to look around and see if I can find it rather then making it myself as when you start making it yourself I notice you will run into some money lol… Cheaper to buy it at the stores already made 🙂June 6, 2015 at 11:45 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73876 Report Abuse
Correct that is the brand. I was going to buy it, but I was unsure if that was the correct thing I kept hearing about. Now that the closest Walmart is 45 minutes from me that’s a bummer. I do happen to have a local Organics food shop about 5 minutes away that I can check out Monday too see if they sell the grains.
Also, it’s really that simple to make?! Geeze I had no idea. Probably would be cheaper to just make it myself then.
How do I make kefir?
It is so simple. Put all your kefir grains into a clean glass jar. Put about five times the milk over them. Cold from the refrigerator will work just fine. Leave them at room temperature until the next day. Stir and strain them then start the process over. Be sure to taste it every time so you know how to adjust the milk for the next time. If it is too sour add more milk. If it is way too sour double the milk or remove some kefir grains from the culture jar. That’s all you really need to know.
Thanks for that link btw that’s where I got this from hehe, it explains a good bit! The most expensive part probably is going through the milk itself, but that shouldn’t be an issue. 🙂June 6, 2015 at 10:08 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73872 Report Abuse
Hate to revive this just to ask one little question, but I felt it was best then to make a new one.
I have went out and took all your guys opinions and bought a 5 pound bag of Orijen to try. I have also found a great place to get Elk antler chews cheap (14 inch antler for $18.00) and it’s local. I have bought a few cans of the tripe, sardines. I ordered chicken feet and they should be here this week.
Now for Kefir, I have searched everywhere locally and I can not find it, the only thing I found was something at our Walmart and it was Kefir Milk plain. Is this what I want to try or is there a way to make it myself etc?June 1, 2015 at 5:38 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73550 Report Abuse
I see no problem with it if the dog let’s you do it and you don’t have to fight with them. Again though my dog doesn’t like the brushing which I think is just the bristle feeling and so this was another route I got recommended to try. I do agree though that some of it could have to do with under the gums. Though doing the dental pick and just scraping a little off the teeth and giving the dogs the proper chews should work fine. I actually asked my vet about this as well and his specific words were “you can try it, it couldn’t hurt to try” and the proper chews to help with the dogs gums go a long way.June 1, 2015 at 4:32 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73543 Report Abuse
For there teeth not long ago I had researched about doing it at home and learned a lot from that. I tried brushing his teeth but he doesn’t seem to like it at all. Though he does let me open his mouth and everything and doesn’t fight back. So when researching I read a lot on doing it yourself with a Dental Pick. You can pick up a dental pick for like $3-$5 the most. I haven’t actually honestly done it yet, but I have plans on picking one up this week sometime.
Here is a video I watched about it as well.June 1, 2015 at 1:40 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73539 Report Abuse
Surprisingly I live on farm lands and in the woods as well and my dog runs my property everyday, and I check him every night for ticks, flees, and also worms when he goes to the bathroom and have yet too ever have any problems. *Crosses fingers*
That link you shared LM is very interesting and I have it now saved on bookmarks for later use.
Speaking of raw foods again…see I would love to try it for him, however, I am pretty scared to try it. Reason being is because, yes we have a local butcher that sells meat right off his farm, but if I go in and ask if it’s organically grass fead and he says yes and I take his word for it and feed it raw to my dog. There’s always that chance of him lieing. Though, I go hunting, and I have several frozen bags of Venison in the freezer right now that I could possibly get out and feed him some of that. Do you guys think Venison would be a good choice of raw? I know it’s listed in that link LM gave, but figured to ask you guys your opinion on that.June 1, 2015 at 1:01 am in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73530 Report Abuse
Oh, well thanks for explaining that as I had no idea. I’ll definitely be stopping at the local butcher too see what there prices are currently now.May 31, 2015 at 7:22 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73520 Report Abuse
Yeah I understood the other things you mentioned to adding here and there to the kibble. Though when you guys mentioned about raw meat is what threw a flag up because I never knew you could do that, plus I figured that could be dangerous to do.May 31, 2015 at 2:45 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73479 Report Abuse
Great to know! Thanks a bunch for the links.May 31, 2015 at 1:03 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73473 Report Abuse
Okay so you’re both saying basically to get this straight is to buy local beef and it’s okay to cut it up and give him 10% of that with 90% kibble? I was unaware that was okay to do as I figured Raw meats could make them sick an such.May 31, 2015 at 12:59 am in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73459 Report Abuse
I’ve never fed him raw foods other then like frozen raw dog food rolls. So that being said I would have no idea what to do in that case. Like you’re saying I can feed him raw beef cut up once in a while? or am I mistaken. Yeah, last time I stopped in they had beef ears and shins, but I don’t recall seeing any ribs, though next time I stop in i’ll check again.May 31, 2015 at 12:41 am in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73457 Report Abuse
I can get Fresh beef, but that’s about it. Most of the fields are nothing but corn fields and few to little farms actually are raising a ton of cattle. To my knowledge there is only one butcher shop that sells meats here as well, which I visited before and they only have Beef and once in a blue moon they’ll have venison but that is a rare occasion.
Would it be worth getting beef?May 31, 2015 at 12:31 am in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73455 Report Abuse
Embalmer, you got some guts (ha!) to get into that sort of career choice. 😉May 31, 2015 at 12:25 am in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73453 Report Abuse
Glad he liked it Pitlove! I’m picking up a few cans this coming week and i’m sure he’ll love it. Smells don’t usually bother me either as I live on farm lands and I smell all different sorts of things on a daily basis as i’m sure you can imagine LoL…May 30, 2015 at 11:44 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73440 Report Abuse
Glad you mentioned about the cat food Naturella! From what I read about K3 I wouldn’t worry about it too much as long as like Bobby said you’re not feeding it everyday. So you should be fine with the Weruva you bought.May 30, 2015 at 11:19 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73437 Report Abuse
Yikes, yeah I just read up on the link you provided earlier and it actually explains it in there somewhat as well. Crazy how they banned it for human consumption, but yet not for animals. I never understood that kind of mentality in life. Just my opinion I guess.May 30, 2015 at 10:49 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73435 Report Abuse
Bobby- My mistake then, I figured it wasn’t since I never seen it show up in anything I ever looked up.
About Evanger’s, that is very good to know as I actually wrote there name down for canned food, but now scratched off.May 30, 2015 at 10:31 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73431 Report Abuse
Naturella that link he shared explains everything. There are numerous dangers with it apparently. Though like Bobby said it is found in dog food as well. I wonder if Dogfoodadvisor should start red marking that then in dog food to let them aware.
Also did I miss something with Evangers? Are they someone to stay away from as well?May 30, 2015 at 8:59 pm in reply to: Best chew for stomach #73419 Report Abuse
I tried getting samples from Canidae last month and they told me they had none so they sent me coupons instead. I’ll try Annamaet and Wysong now.
Never thought of giving cat food as I was always in the thought of there was something different in them dogs couldn’t have. Good idea though and thanks for the info!
Oh and Bobby, Yeah I am in the same boat, so I know how that is!
- This reply was modified 8 years ago by chris.