[Nancy M]

Checker

Thanks for your input. Well, I think I’m in line with all you’ve pointed out…….feeding at certain times of the day, feeding within the guidelines of the food, and vitamin supplementation (I give both my dogs the proper amount of Nu-Vet Plus vitamins, daily). Like I mentioned, this little guy might do better with self-feeding, as he use to be able to do, but it’s not really possible with another dog around here.

I’ll give it another day and see how it goes……things could always be worse. Last puppy I had, 4 years ago, was very sick and suffering with almost constant diarrhea for about 3 months. Thought I was going to lose him from dehydration. FINALLY…..by the time the vets (3) decided what it was, the breeder had already sent me the meds to clear it up. Started out with Coccidia and then came the Giardia. The vets were all too afraid to give the meds he needed (Albon and Metronitizole) because of his size, but the breeder knew what was needed and so within 2 – 3 days of following her instructions, he was almost normal again! So what I have going on right now, is nothing in comparison.

I truly believe there’s nothing “wrong” with him, except the “wrong” food. We’ll see though! I hope its that simple!

Thanks again!
Nancy

[Nancy M]

theBCnut,

Gee, I’ve been keeping you pretty busy haven’t I? I apologize. I’m just rather flabbergasted over yet another issue with this puppy. As you mentioned, I think it’s got to be something with this food. Along with the excessive stools, I think pup and I would be better off with putting him back on the food he came to me on, IF I CAN FIND SOME IN STOCK SOMEWHERE. I don’t think this TOTW is working well for him right now. Strange thing too, I just fed him his 3rd meal of the day, and he’s already looking around for something else to eat. Don’t think this stuff is satisfying him for some reason, amongst other issues. The feeding guidelines for his age and weight calls for 1 1/4 c – 2 cups a day. He’s eating 1 1/2, wanting more, but pooping it out almost as fast as he’s eating it. And his little belly is just FULL. I can’t believe the digestion process and drinking all this water, even though that has decreased “some”, isn’t overworking his system! I don’t think the vet will have much to offer really, but I will probably take him in just to get him checked over, just to be on the safe side.

This is crazy…….thanks again for spending your time with me!
Nancy

[Nancy M]

Thanks for your opinion BCnut, I tend to agree with you. I wonder why they make this puppy formula with such a high fiber; seems like all pups would have this same problem. Although I have noticed a little slow down in water consumption since yesterday afternoon.,Maybe this is a form of adjustment, or maybe it’s not really a good thing. I’ll have to watch him closely today before I decide to do something different. I have cut back on the amount of each feeding though, so maybe that’s helping. Fortunately, I am readily available to him, and make it a regular routine in going outside to relieve himself, we just have to do it more often. Although I have wondered how this affects his urinary system as well. He’s been really doing great on potty training since I got him and my particular set up is much easier than most situations. He just goes to the door and I’m right there to let him out and he’s right there in the spot he needs to go.

I hate to change him back to the Victor; just another change for him right now, plus the holidays are not a good time to have an upset puppy. I might try to locate a small bag of it though and reduce the amount of this new food for awhile longer though. Or maybe replacing some of the dry, with the same formula in the canned, might help too. One or the other should help, without tummy upset, I hope.,

Thanks again for responding……..
Nancy

[Nancy M]

P.S.

CLARIFICATION: I did not start out with this amount of the new food, I have slowly transitioned up to the 1/2 cup at each feeding that I’ve been giving. This portion still contains some of the previous food, but not much now. I just started noticing the increase in stools yesterday.

Also, I don’t have any more of the Victor to add to the new food, so should I just cut back down even further on the amount at each feeding, or use something to cut the ratio of the new food back down again, like cooked rice?

I don’t want to end up with a major explosion of diarrhea from too many “fixes”. This puppy has done exceptionally well in transitioning to a new home.

Nancy

[Nancy M]

Thank you all for your input and great information! Looks like I’ve got some great places to start!

Merry Christmas to all!
Nancy

[Nancy M]

Neezerfan,

THANK YOU! I thoroughly appreciate it!

Merry Christmas!
Nancy

[Nancy M]

Neezerfan,

Thanks for the info about your experience. I haven’t had quite that experience, but very close. This dog’s stools have not been abnormally soft or smelly, but rather quite large and numerous; especially while on the Victor food. And then came the itchies. I was a bit suspicious when I saw all the different proteins/meats in the Victor food as well, but as many people who swear by it, I decided to give it a try. While many dogs probably do great on it, and it sounds like a great quality food, I have never been a fan of this many different meat sources in one food. I have always preferred a more limited ingredient food. Actually, it seems this dog did much better on her original puppy food; the Diamond Natural’s formula. Even though it was chicken based, it had a high protein and fat content, and a nice fiber content, which apparently she needs. As much as I distrust Diamond, we may go back to that and start all over again.

I’d really be interested to know what brand you are using now; the venison/potato. I’ve looked at many, many foods and even including puppy formulas, I can’t seem to find one even close to the Diamond…….not yet.

Thanks again for your input!
Nancy

[Nancy M]

Thank you Susan and BCnut……great info! I think I’ve got some work cut out for me, getting this dog on the right stuff! Your ideas give me hope!

[Nancy M]

BCnut:

When I first got this dog from my daughter, she weighed 25.5# at the vet. I had taken her in for a fecal. Shortly after that is when I changed her diet to the Victor Hi-pro. About a week into the transition is when I noticed the major itchiness, back rolling and scratching, and that is when she got the allergy shot. She had lost about a pound within that week, which isn’t extreme, but I suspect that she is still losing slightly. He told me to wait a couple weeks to change her to a fish based food, to make sure it was the food, but I was running low on the Victor and decided to purchase a new bag of a new food; the TOTW.Pacific Stream. She had already been having more stools when she was on the Victor. They are about the same on the TOTW. I live in Arkansas, so I believe the food is coming out of Missouri. Like I said, I am NOT a TOTW fan, by any means, but for now I’m going to continue with it until I know whether it’s the food or the allergy shot that’s helping. In a couple weeks I should know. In the meantime, I’m just trying to figure out where to go next. I’ll either have to find a higher protein/fat food, or just keep her on puppy food for awhile longer. Will probably take her back to the vet after the holidays to get her checked out again and discuss it with him though, before I make any more changes.

Thanks much for your response! Everything is helpful!
Nancy

[Nancy M]

Laura M!

Thank you for your response. It is greatly appreciated. I will try your suggestions, and in answer to some of the “unknowns”, I have not had any issues with appetite or interest in food lately, but while she was still on the Diamond Natural’s puppy food; yes, it took a little coaxing by wetting the food a bit. I have tried feeding her a little more, but a few times, she would vomit all of it, so I cut it back some. I also wait until she’s been up for awhile in the mornings before I feed her. I also failed to mention that the more I feed her, the more I have stools all over the yard. Maybe there’s too much fiber in her food. It’s like the food is going right through……I’m sure that’s got to be affecting her weight.

I’m really at a loss here with this; like I said, I’ve just never had this problem before. It’s very frustrating, as is the whole dog food decision making process.

Thanks again!
Nancy

[Nancy M]

Very interesting! It’s worth consideration…….thanks for the info. My daughter has the male mini Aussie who is also having some minor skin issues, much less than this girl, but she’s about to change him over to Iams. I’m going to see how he does on it. She raised both of these dogs from puppies, both on the Diamond naturals. Although they’re not from the same litter, they both have some skin problems. If he does better on just the Iams, I may try it also.

Thanks again,
Nancy

[Nancy M]

Susan,

No prednisone, just Benadryl for a couple days until the allergy med kicks in fully. Very good tip on the food! Thank you! We’ll see how it goes…….things have improved, but not totally as yet. Hopefully by the week’s end it will be greatly improved. Thanks again! You’ve been very helpful!

Nancy

[Nancy M]

Thank you Susan, and theBCnut……I will take all of that into consideration. For right now, and following an allergy shot today at the Vet’s, the plan is to let the medication give relief and keep her on her current food. If the itching doesn’t stop or doesn’t last more than a couple weeks, then most likely it’s the food. Then I’ll need to start switching over to something else….another obstacle…..which one????? Not an easy task, as we all know about when we have a dog with food allergies. Vet says to try switching to a fish or duck based food; although if it’s got any of the other ingredients in it, we’ll be in the same boat. For the time being, I’m seeing a noticeable decrease in the “itchies”.

Susan, no I have not noticed a yeasty smell at all, but I’ll be checking that out more. I’ll definitely check into the shampoo you recommended and see where I can get some. Where do you purchase it? For now, I won’t add or detract anything for the next week or two, until I see how long the relief actually lasts, which might help identify the cause, food or something else. We’ll see…….

Thanks all!

[Nancy M]

Thanks to “theBCnut”, I appreciate your response. As you can probably agree, when there’s more than one change, it’s difficult to figure out which one is doing more responsible. The new food and the colder weather, both started around the same time. Putting the Advantix II on her the other day, probably made everything worse. But yes, I do have some Salmon oil that I was going to start her on, but not only was it expired, I just hate that fishy smell. I also have some coconu oil, so I’ll start with that first. I’ve also heard that Vitamin E liquid can help with this……what say you? I think I’ll transition her back to her old food and see if that makes a difference also. Then I can eventually choose a new food……I had reservations about the pork in the Victor formula, to begin with. But we’ll see. It will be a process I’m sure.

Thanks for the advice!

[Nancy M]

Thank you all for your comments! I appreciate them. I think I’m going to try keeping her on this food a bit longer and see how it goes. Haven’t noticed the grass eating all day yesterday and so in a few days, once I get her totally switched over, I’ll see how she does. I’ll try to give her another week or two. Otherwise, it will take the new puppy forever to eat up 20 lbs. of this stuff. I had some reservations about the Victor, because it seems to me that there might be too many different proteins to get used to……..even for the puppy. I think my next choice is going to be the Nutrisource. I don’t mind rotating different formulas, but I think it’s better to start off with formulas that have a limited amount, at least until they get use to them, one at a time.

THANKS AGAIN!

[Nancy M]

I can’t believe this, I was just getting back on site, when your message came through. And yes! I just realized this! So scratch that! Doggone it, thought I had found a good one! Thanks for the prompt reply to make sure I knew! I appreciate it. Is there anything they don’t have their hands in? Gee whiz, back to the drawing board.

Thanks!
Nancy

[Nancy M]

CRAZY4CATS:

Thanks very much for your reply. It was very nice hearing your story. And I agree. It takes a certain kind of person/family to raise two pups together, along with a lot of time, organization and strategy. I think more often than not, it’s almost impossible to meet both of their individual needs and it seems that one or the other is at least a bit “shorted” from it. This little girl, after being around both dogs at my daughters for so long, almost seems like a totally different animal here with me. Much more calm and relaxed, still very loving, but probably a bit reserved because she’s a little depressed and out of her element. Of course, the chaos of working adults and two energetic children, probably contributed to her anxiety and lack of time with her humans. But time will tell…….congratulations for making it through a very tough time.

Thanks much,
Nancy M

[Nancy M]

Thanks Bobby dog……I appreciate the info and your experience. And yes, I think I’m going to steer clear of Diamond foods altogether. But it’s a crazy “food world” out there. Unless you spend a lot of time, and then even if you do, the choices are endless and the pros and cons of them all, are just mind boggling! I think I’m going to go with the Chicken Soup Puppy and see how that does. It sounds like a very good food, I can get it close-by and I think it’s probably a big improvement over the Diamond.

So thanks again!
Nancy M

[Nancy M]

Thanks to all of you that have responded to my call for assistance. I really appreciate your thoughts and experience on the subject. For starters, yes, I have a pretty good idea what is in store for me with this pup, but all I can do is try. She is one of two Aussies that my daughter had gotten, pretty close together. It didn’t take long for her to realize that even though it’s tough sometimes to raise two puppies together, it can end up being quite a horrible experience, when you have two of these kind together…..they turned out being companions, yes, but also partners in crime. On a very big farm, with a lot of room to run and play, you’d think they would have plenty to do to stay occupied. Apparently not; they both got into a game of their own, which was “search and destroy”! If I were younger, I would really love to pursue the agility again. With a different Sheltie I had, I just loved it and so did She. Unfortunately, those days are long gone. The one I have is really the better of the two, in my opinion. We are starting some obedience classes tonight, so I’m hoping that will help us both. Had I been asked to take the other one, the male, I would have not just said No, but H— No! He’s an absolute lunatic! No joke! At least this one is lovable, more quiet and much more receptive. So we’ll see. If it doesn’t work, she’ll have to resume her search for a new home.

Anyway……getting back to the food, I had totally forgotten about the association between Diamond and TOTW! So, that’s out of my possible choices. I’ve gone through this agonizing and consuming process quite a bit over the years with my dogs and just cringe when I think about all the facts to consider and decisions to make….again. And now, there are so many more to choose from.

I’ll just take my time and do the best I can. In the meantime, thanks again!

Nancy M

[Nancy M]

Thanks for your last message Carol. Things have calmed down and dramatically improved since about 2:30 this afternoon. The difference is like night and day, after having this last drain done this morning. He’s back to his old self again and eating as normal…….not sure how long it will last, but hopefully it will give both of us a “breather” and me time to think and decide on the next step. Will see what the next couple of days brings, and if I can get ahold of someone to offer some better options.

Your support and experiences have been so helpful and encouraging! Thanks more than I can say!

Nancy

[Nancy M]

Hello again Carol……thanks again for such information, however, right now, I’m so discouraged to say the least. I just came back from the vets office and having another 350cc drained out. Through the night, my dog has stopped laying flat out on either side; will only lay upright, with both front legs spread apart some. He looks and acted very uncomfortable, with labored breathing, which really hasn’t improved much since draining the 250cc on Saturday. When he only ate about 1/3 of his food this morning, and acts pretty lethargic, it was time to take him back in. X-ray doesn’t show any improvement and my vet is not encouraging me with hope. Needless to say, I’m very sad;actually devastated. And I don’t know what to do. I’m fighting the temptation to give up and make sure my dogs quality of life and comfort doesn’t suffer more than it already has. This latest situation has risen so suddenly and seems to be going downhill just as quickly. However, if I knew or could find someone who is knowledgeable and capable of doing the port, I would at least try it. I might just get on the phone with the vet hospital in Oklahoma (they never got back to me) and see what I can find out or do. I’m afraid that losing him could be as close as over the next few days, if I don’t do something. I’m just lost in this…….awful feeling, as I’m sure you know, many times over probably.

Thanks for writing. I sure do appreciate it! You are very kind!

Nancy

[Nancy M]

Hi Carol, I just wanted to ask you a few questions that I’ve thought about since our conversations……hope you don’t mind?????

1. You are giving Rutin @ 1000mg, 3x daily? I’ve only been giving 500 mg/2 x day….a big
difference. How big is your dog? Mine is now 25#. I’m thinking I should up the dosage.
Is there any particular brand you use or has been recommended? I use the NOW brand
capsules.

2. Are you adding Metamucil? How much?

3. With the pleural port, how does that affect your dog’s activities? Is he able to interact/
play with other pets, or is he restricted?

4. Do you get the Royal Canin at your vets office, or do you order it from somewhere? I’ll
need to get my vet to authorize it, I guess. You feed the canned? How much do you feed?

Please respond when you can. Greatly appreciated!
Nancy M

[Nancy M]

Once and again, many thanks on this. Great information to go forward with. And OMG, 1,000cc’s? That’s unbelievable! I thought 240 was bad! It’s just awful!

BTW, I’m assuming that you feed the canned Royal Canin? If it’s prescription, your vet must carry it? Mine does not, so I would probably have to order it online and then wait for him to authorize the purchase? I am feeding the dry version of the I/D, mainly because my dog didn’t like the canned. Whenever he did eat it, he vomited it. Since I switched to the dry, he’ll eat it but prefers a bit of the Merrick 95% chicken formula mixed in with it……..does your dog get just the Royal Canin formula and nothing else at all, besides his medications of course? I’m trying to find some chewies or bones that won’t add to the fat situation, but so far, nothing. He loves to chew on stuff, but I’m afraid to give him anything that could add to the problem.

Keep on, keep in’ on! It’s one day at a time isn’t it? Take care!
Nancy

[Nancy M]

OK! Nevermind….It worked: Here’s what I tried to send you:

Oh my gosh Carol, I cannot thank you enough for your email and wealth of information! And although I wouldn’t want this to happen to anyone, it is so very nice to hear from and share with others who are dealing with this problem. It’s absolutely heartbreaking and frustrating, because as you said, there are so few vets who really seem to know how and what to do.

Since my decision to not do the surgery, I have had some second thoughts, but feel it’s a big gamble, aside from the fact of putting the dog through such an ordeal, and then with such low success rates, not to mention the financial strain it can present. I’ve heard and read a lot more about the negatives and the “unsuccesses” as I have the positives. But as of a couple days ago, I can’t help but question myself. Last August, they removed about 60cc. from Oliver’s chest and since then, he has done rather well; always having his bad and good days. I have kept a pretty routine check on what’s going on through x-rays; usually every 4 – 6 weeks. In late January, it all but disappeared and we thought it had healed up on its own. Short lived; the next visit showed a minimal amount again, but still I had better hope. All the following ones, showed little change, which was good but not total relief…….until last week when he was continually showing signs of difficulty. When I took him in on Saturday, they drained off almost 240cc, and had a hard time doing it. First they couldn’t really locate the pocket, due to his increase in body fat (not much exercise tolerance anymore, especially in this hot and humid weather here) and then they had a tough time reaching it. Finally they found a long enough needle and out it flowed. All the while, he was like a little trooper…..,rarely did he even flinch.

It took a day or so, since then, to notice a real improvement in his breathing, but I definitely can tell now. I’m temporarily relieved and very grateful! And strangely enough, I have thought about this over the last day or two, and wondered why a port wouldn’t be advisable and much better management tool. So again, your email couldn’t have come at a better time. I don’t think I would want my current vet to do it though, as much as I trust them. Again, I think they are just not knowledgeable or capable enough to take on the task. So yesterday, I found online, and reached out to a Veterinary School in Oklahoma that I have heard great things about and sent them an inquiry. Surprisingly, I got a reply; even on a Sunday. However, I had reached someone in the Equine department, but he promised that he would be forwarding my message on to some of the small animal vets, and assured me that one of them at least, would be in contact. So I’m waiting and hoping that there might be someone who can lend some recommendations to this ordeal by way of an actual consultation and review.

Another thing you mentioned, which I NEVER knew or was told about; I just happened to read it on a website this weekend, that not only does this affect the dog’s ability to breathe well, I learned about the affects it has on their entire health. As you have already found, I did not realize that as you drain off substantial amounts of this fluid from the chest, it’s also representative of all the “nutrients” that have not able to circulate and nourish the body. That was absolutely astounding to me! Hence, another important reason to do somethings differently. Up until then, and now with your email, I did not even think or know to keep a check on his overall body functions and blood values. Again, it just shows how little some of these vets know and can relate to you, about the entire scope of this condition. I cannot thank you enough for writing to me which also actually confirmed this today.

Since Oliver was first diagnosed, I had to of course, change his diet. We had to go from a high-grade, more natural diet, down to this Science Diet (Low-Residue I/D) and for me, I absolutely cringe every time I give it to him. But I have to tell myself, maybe it’s a big reason why he’s still alive today, and just let it go. I’ve looked for other food possibilities, but none with low enough fat content. I did not know that Royal Canin makes a similar product. I’ll keep that in mind. As for the Rutin, yes he’s been on about the same dosage as your dog, from the get-go, and again I’m hopeful that it is helping. I have thought to increase it also, but hadn’t been able to research the pros and cons of that yet. Again, your information was helpful.

For now, I will hold on to the thoughts and information you have passed onto me, and continue to consider them in what to do next. I also want to offer you my sincere condolences because I know what you have been through and still doing. One thing I cannot relate to, but can only imagine, is the hardship, the trauma and disappointment you must feel from putting your dog and yourself through the surgery, only to have it not bring resolution. It had to be devastating! I cannot say it enough…….thank you is not enough……I so appreciate you taking the time to share with me. And PLEASE, can we stay in touch? I wish you and your dog all the best, with God’s blessings. Please let me know how you’re both doing, won’t you?

With much gratitude,
Nancy M.
Fayetteville, AR

[Nancy M]

Carol M: I cant believe it, but I got your message on my email and have spent much time with a response, thinking I could just reply to it……but it wouldn’t go through. I’m going to try pasting it here in another message, but if it doesn’t work, I would like to send it to your regular email, if you would send an email to me directly, I will have yours as well, to respond.
Bear with me, as I try to get my response back to you on this site.

Thanks,
Nancy

[Nancy M]

Rescuedanemom,

Thanks ever so much for your reply and the information! That’s just I wanted to know!

[Nancy M]

Dear Betsy Greer,

Sorry that I have not seen a particular post back to me, until just now, actually quite by accident. I was trying to follow back up with you about a different response you had given, and I saw one I had not seen before. Don’t know what happened, but anyway…….

I was trying to find the post that specifically mentioned the Nutrisource food you had suggested because I thought for sure you had recommended the ADULT formula of the Chicken and Rice. So I was wanting to double-check that and sure enough that’s what it said. So my question is, why the ADULT formula and not the puppy chicken and rice? Surely they must make a puppy formula? Either there’s a specific reason for that, or it was a “typo” or something??????? Please explain.

Addressing your response that I had not seen before……thanks so much for your obvious concern of this puppy! Here’s an update.

It’s been two weeks today that the meds were started. It has been an upside and downside battle, to put things lightly. But all in all, I think he’s doing quite well, most of the time. We’ve had to adjust/add to some of his meds and stay in close contact with the vet. As I may have mentioned, I have this puppy 3 – 4 days a week while my daughter is working, then on Thursdays, she takes him home until Sunday night again. This last Thursday, he had finally turned the corner, and the stools, while being very large and semi-frequent, looked completely normal. However, over the weekend, he regressed again, for whatever reason. Started him back on the Albon again last night, even though a fecal on Saturday did not show any Coccidia. But vet said it doesn’t necessarily mean there’s not something still there. So now today, I have him back again. He had a good night and as of this morning, stools look back to normal. But in my opinion, I think he still would benefit from a food change, as soon as he shows solid signs of stability. That’s why I was re-visiting puppy food recommendations, particularly those who have pretty consistently recommended this NUTRISOURCE. Problem is that my daughter is not anywhere close to where I am as far as being picky about dog foods. So, I’m probably fighting a losing battle here.

I also have suspicions that this little pup is being adversely affected by changing households like this…..mine is quiet and relaxed; being just me (and I’m a 62 year old single retiree) and my 3 year old Sheltie (who just absolutely adores this little puppy). Hers is full of action and rather chaotic, from being a working mom, 2 young children and a farm to manage. I firmly believe it is all adding way too much stress to an already stressed out puppy. I intend to speak with her and urge her to consider finding another home for this pup, once he is well and stable (if that can be achieved). I don’t want a puppy (or grandchild) to raise, and even though I’m glad to help out temporarily, I doubt this is going to be temporary…..at least anytime soon. I think this puppy needs and deserves a stable, better suited environment. Anything short of that is going to delay his recovery as well as affect his overall security and emotional development. Obviously, my daughter has either forgotten what all is involved in raising a puppy and/or quite likely, never tried to care for one with these issues. It’s very tough! Been there – done that, more than I ever wanted, but what else can you do? You just get through it! Unfortunately, I think other issues in her household are making it even tougher and longer!

So, while the pup is doing very well at this time, there is a lot more to do and think about here. I’ve certainly got my work cut out for me. Thank you so much for being concerned and giving your valuable advice.

[Nancy M]

Dear “lovemycanines”,

Yes, i was told that also, and I have done some extensive reading and research on the subject and know that can happen. And then even if it does resolve on it’s own, there is no guarantee it will last. But why it does or doesn’t, no one knows. It’s just a very, very appropriately named “idiopathic” condition…..and so very hard to deal with, as you also know. I will tell you what was told to me and you may have been told the same thing….apparently there can be several “veins” or branches of these little ducts that cannot always be seen or found in surgery….and so it is very difficult for a surgeon to find exactly what is leaking……sometimes. Putting all the unknowns in there, I just did not want to, nor could I afford the surgery with such little promise. And I did not want to spend what time I may have had left with my dog, subjecting him to this surgery. It’s just a very tough call! We all have to make the decisions that we feel comfortable with. And bless your heart, it sounds like you’ve had to make so many! Whatever you choose to do, I very much wish you the very best! You just never know!

As far as the diet and the Hills food, have you already tried adding something in that he really likes, to make him eat better? For mine, I made up some homemade chicken or turkey with rice, just enough to make it more appealing, so he ate it well. A little bit of anything to make him eat, surely wouldn’t make a big difference, as long as it’s not fatty.

As far as the Seameal and Benazipril, I can’t say that they have really affected anything with the CHYLOTHORAX, but the Benazipril is for him, like us taking a low dose of aspirin everyday for heart health, and it not only helped with the hypertension, it’s just something that tends to help the entire system. So I’ve kept him on it just as a support measure, same as the Seameal. The Seameal is made by Solid Gold (dog food brand) and just has a lot of minerals, vitamins, probiotics and digestive enzymes in it. There are several others on the market, but I was just already familiar with the Solid Gold product.

Please keep in touch and let me know how you are both doing. I will do the same. Be sure to take care of you too!

[Nancy M]

Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry! What an ordeal you and your dog have been through! I’m a little surprised that the surgery you did had little effect, as I’ve been told that if anything can do the trick it is that. I just could not do it financially and then just didn’t have much faith in any surgery. Very risky, expensive, life threatening, difficult recoveryand a guarded solution at best……also my vets were not too optimistic.

In my case, maybe I’ve been lucky. Time will tell. To date, the fluid that is there is minimal (since last having it drained in late September) and has not increased any. My dog acts as normal as ever and for the most part, I can’t tell there’s anything wrong. For how long, is pure guesswork. So for the time being, I am extremely happy!

This is what I have done, as far as diet and supplementation. Keep in mind though, that at the onset of this, the first specialist I saw, put him on high doses of prednisone, which after almost 2 weeks I ended up weaning him off of…..while it may have helped with the inflammation of the chyle, it gave him high blood pressure. So, I felt it was counter-productive, plus the frequent urination was very difficult to manage. So, I’m not sure if this had anything to do with the improvement I’m seeing right now or not. He has also continued taking a low dose of Benazipril, for the entire circulatory system.

Since his diagnosis, he has been on the Hill’s I/D, Low-fat Residue formula. I feed him the dry, mainly, with a little bit of the canned in with it. I have also used in place of their canned food, the canned formula made by Purina; EN Gastroenteric, also available through my vet(black can). Occasionally, I will top off his dry food with various canned meat formulas; not much, but just a little for variety. I’ve never been a fan of the Hill’s or Science Diet in general, but at this point, I’m using what they tell me. If it helps, so be it, whatever is in it.

Finally, I have, since day of diagnosis, given 500 mg. of the Rutin, (I’m using the NOW brand capsules right now, which really only have 450 mg. each), at least twice a day, sometimes 3. I have recently added the recommended dose of Solid Gold’s Sealmeal, just to give his entire system some extra support. So, that’s about it. Along with some help from above, I’m hoping for a miracle, as I’m sure you are. It is a very frustrating and unpredictable situation, to say the least.

With all you and your dog have been through, with such disappointment and probably having such a feeling of helplessness, my thoughts and prayers are with you. I wish you the very best. If I can help in any way, please don’t hesitate to contact me again.

[Nancy M]

Yes…..I am so appreciative, really. I’ve just been totally consumed with this puppy. What a nightmare this has been! Finally some improvement though! But special thanks to rescuedanemom for so much information and so much time spent!

[Nancy M]

P.S. I would prefer to find a food that is available locally, for now, so I can get started on this in a day or two..I have a Petco, Petsmart and Tractor Supply available to me.

[Nancy M]

Thank you all for your responses…very helpful and pretty much supports my thinking. Thanks again!

[Nancy M]

Thanks so much for your comments! I really appreciate hearing peoples experiences with this. For starters, with this pup, the test was positive for the Giardia, but there was not enough of a sample for the Coccidia test, so the vet is just treating for both. Good decision! Apparently, the Albon is for the Coccidia and the Panacur is for the Giardia….but, like I just told my daughter, the Panacur did not bring good results for my 3 year old dog, when he had this really, really bad as a puppy. It was not until I used the Albon AND the Metronitizole together, that I got a speedy turn-around. But vets are always reluctant to use the Metro, especially on young puppies like this (even mine when he was even quite a bit older than this one is), due to the side affects it can have. While I totally respect that, sometimes you have to consider the affects and lasting illness from not using it. If it were my puppy, I would already be using it…because I keep it on hand. But my daughter doesn’t want to go against the vet. I understand that, because I was in the same spot at one time, but finally listened to my breeder. Within a few days, he was almost back to normal. Before that, I went from vet to vet, and nothing worked. The poor puppy was very, very sick for the first 4 – 5 months of his life, not to mention the havoc it caused in my life, but I finally got to the point I thought I would lose him. Thank goodness for my very involved and caring breeder, because what she had been telling me all along, worked!

My daughter now has the puppy since she’s not working for the next 4 days. She is also seeing what I’ve been talking about, still and again, very loose stools, very little, if any water consumption, decreased energy and playfulness with much more sleeping than before. I told her to call the vet again, since she had told me if he’s not getting better by weeks end, she will probably go with the Metronitizole. So, I’m waiting to see if she’s going to finally give in.

This Giardia and Coccidia, together, if not just even one by itself, is absolutely a nightmare for pet owners and their poor little victims. I’m not so sure that my adult dog, even at 3 years old, hasn’t suffered or acquired some health issues from all he went through. It’s just horrible! Another reason against any future puppies! And who knows how many of them end up suffering with this, on and on, at the hands of uncaring or irresponsible breeders or pet owners. Very sad.

So thanks for your response….was nice talking with you.

[Nancy M]

First, yes we have and they have been cooperative with what little information we would even depend on. And yes, to me 6 weeks is too early for sure. However, you get what you get. My daughter (married with children and certainly old enough to know better, even though she has had two other pups at 6 weeks that did just fine) was “hellbent” on having this puppy…..exactly what she was looking for, it was the only one they had and then hating to leave it in such a noisy, chaotic environment, contributed to a decision to be reckoned with now. In my opinion, even though the facilities were very clean and very nice, it fit too many of the criteria of a puppy mill. So again, you get what you bargain for. I told her not to do it, but she did. Now she has to work for a few days and I get the puppy. Ain’t parenthood wonderful? No matter how old and educated they are……still a stupid thing to do. If it weren’t for my grandson, I wouldn’t be doing this!

But anyway…..thanks for the response. Not only do I think all breeders should be more conscienous of how they operate, they should all make sure they start these meds prior to weaning and then furnish their buyers with the proper meds for continuing them. I don’t doubt this can be a common problem, even in the best of environments. These puppies get so stressed, it’s just almost a certainty that this can develop. My last puppy was 12 weeks old and still got it……and a very severe case. And I’m with you……NO MORE PUPPIES FOR ME! Getting too old for this stuff.

Thanks again!

[Nancy M]

I have a 6 week old mini Aussie puppy, weighing 3.2 lbs., just diagnosed with a confirmed case of Giardia, but no result on the Coccidia, so he is being treated with both meds; Albon and Panacur suspensions. My daughter just got this puppy on Friday, it is now Tuesday. Things are little improved, especially during the night, when he seems to have more urges to poop; mostly soft – runny, or nothing at all. Doesn’t want to eat the I/D diet, so put him back on the diamond puppy dry, which he started the day she got him. So as of this morning, have been giving him back, small amounts of the kibble, with a tiny bit of cottage cheese or yogurt mixed in.

My questions are this…..what kind of food should he be eating right now and wouldn’t the metronitizole work better than the Panacur? I had a puppy with this about 3 years ago and the Panacur didn’t work. Not until we did a good dosage regimen of the Metro, did things improve; almost overnight.

Please respond with suggestions and HELP! Thanks!

[Nancy M]

What about “bully sticks”…. are they safe? I’ve heard they are loaded with calories and can even introduce bacteria? Opinions and recommendations requested. What kind are best? I have a 20# dog! but he’s an active and hardy chewer…..

[Nancy M]

TO ANYONE WILLING TO RESPOND…….

Currently, my dog is on Hills Prescription I/D low-fat, dry and canned. He’s on that for a reason (will spare the details), and he was stabilized, until I started introducing some raw (very small beef bone with marrow in it…..a very tiny bit), but it gave him the runs pretty good. Was a big NO-NO, as it turned out. He rebounded well and ate his next meal with no issues. Thought he was over it, but it appears that he still has some pretty loose stools today.

So……my question is this: since he has always tended to have digestive issues on and off, (food, stress, illness now) can someone recommend some digestive probiotics, prebiotics, enzymes that I should probably be using for him? I would love to eventually get him on a much better diet, but due to his illness and needing to keep him as stable as possible, I would love to get something in him that will help with his digestive system. He has always been on kibble, and I’ve always tried to feed the premiums or naturals, which as I’m learning, are just awful for dogs. Now he’s stuck on something even worse……Hills.

I have used yogurt in the past, I do have pumpkin that I’m giving today, but I also noticed that THK has a powder mix that when mixed, is kind of a milky drink. It says it has the pros, prees, and enzymes in it. So before I get some of that just to have on hand, has anyone used it? Or can you give me other options?

As long as he’s on this Hills, I feel like I should be giving him something extra and soothing to his gut and good for his body, so I’d like something I can use regularly.

Thanks!

[Nancy M]

Neezerfan,

I like that idea! I ordered a couple of those, along with the deer hooves. I had tried the deer antlers once but he lost interest in those after a few days. Hope he likes these! Thank you!

[Nancy M]

Pugmomsandy

Thanks for that tip! As far as the marrow goes, obviously you are correct. But the bone had maybe a tsp. of it in there……didn’t think that would affect him like that. Anyway, he’s actually fine now. Ate his evening meal just fine and acting fine. No more runs. I will wait a few days and then start with your suggestion. Thanks very much…..AGAIN.

[Nancy M]

That happened to me about an hour or so ago……

[Nancy M]

I forgot about the “kongs”. I have a few of them somewhere. I’ll have to get them back out. Great idea! Thanks!

[Nancy M]

Well, looks like we’re not off to a very good start with the raw. Gave my little guy a SMALL (a little larger around than a Ping pong ball, about 1/4 inch thick) beef bone, with the marrow in it (just got from the butcher shop this morning), and already have the runs. Not a good indication of things to come if I keep with my plans to start a raw diet! Any comments?

[Nancy M]

It’s a very difficult and crushing experience…..I’ve lost more than a few, so I feel your pain! Very sorry for you!

[Nancy M]

I have already written on different topics, but basically right now, what I really want to do is get started. I have read almost non-stop on this subject, ordered a couple books, but need to start a beginning program. Right now I have a 3 year old Sheltie who is on a Hills I/d diet (dry and wet) and will be getting my new Sheltie Pup next week who is being fed ProPlan Focus Puppy Chicken/rice, with Pedigree Wet chicken/beef. I want to get both of these dogs switched over to a much better diet, preferably raw or combination/mixture of that.
How can I get this started? Just by adding a little raw meat/organ meat/meaty bones a little at a time, with their current kibble? The puppy will be easier, I think, but the older one is on the Hills diet for a reason; must have as low fat as possible…..also has issues with sensitive stomach.

Please advise ASAP.

P.S. I ALREADY HAVE ABOUT A HALF BAG OF PRIMAL FROZEN NUGGETS (sardine and turkey formula) to finish using up so I thought I might just start back in mixing some in with the kibble for awhile. I had started this once, but then I had to go out of town for a bit, and decided to start back again later. It’s later, so I’m ready to begin again.

[Nancy M]

Pugmomsandy…….thanks so much for your time and expertise! Appreciate it very much! I’ve gotten a lot of information throughout the day and feel far better off than yesterday on the subject? Very helpful……Thanks again, everyone. I love this site!

[Nancy M]

God bless all of you that foster these “lost”animals…..you are such special people! And that makes sense as to the inventory when you have several mouths to feed. But even with one or two it can certainly become an “addiction”…..I know that feeling quite well.

Melissa, special thanks for the tips on the recipes references. I have a growing list of books and articles to read. Time consuming, but I love it! I think my best bet right now, in order to get started with better nutrition is to just take one little step at a time and then build on it, one thing at a time.

Thanks to all who have helped!

[Nancy M]

Pugmomsandy,

Sorry…..more questions for you. Where do you purchase most of your food products; mainly the canned/kibble? Locally or websites? Do you normally buy in bulk and during sales? One can assume it takes a while to get such a variety built up, but I can’t even imagine trying to accumulate these varieties from local retailers. So what’s your strategy? What are your preferred canned/kibble/freeze-dried foods?

[Nancy M]

Sandy,

Loved the info in your post of 10/7…… Great info! Thanks for sharing!

[Nancy M]

It’s really quite amazing! I highly admire those who have progressed to even close to this level of “knowing what they’re doing”. I am so eager to get started, but I definitely need to learn a lot more, first. Guess I need to start crackin’ on the books!

[Nancy M]

Melissa…..please share your recipe(s) with me, when you have time. Thanks much for your comment right now, everything is helpful!

[Author]

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