[losul]

KMS- I hadn’t followed what had been going on with your pup, so had to go back and read your entire history.

Antibiotic usage/overusage can become a vicious circle. You might want to google antibiotic induced colitis. The clostridium overgrowth is one thing that can cause colitis from the toxins they produce, although it’s very possible there might be multiple causes.

When you said your pup has had full-blown diarrhea the last 5 days, that would very much concern me. Are you checking to make sure he isn’t becoming dangerously dehydrated? Lift the skin on the back of neck/shoulders. When released, the skin should spring back to to normal fairly quickly. Check the gums, they should be pink. Press on the gums briefly and pink color should return them within a second or 2. Mouth should not be overly dry nor saliva very sticky.

If the severe diarrhea isn’t causing an emergency situation, I would slow down on what you are introducing to him, with the exception of the pro-pectin you mentioned you already have. The main ingredient is kaolin, a form of bentonite clay, that should soothe and coat the intestines. It is also said to absorb toxins and bad bacteria. But you should also be aware that kaolin will interfere with absorption of some antibiotics, and specifically trimethoprin (the TMP in the antibiotic combo you mentioned). Pro-pectin also has one form of encapsulated beneficial bacterium in it. Then I would wait for the outside lab results, and then maybe go for the colonoscopy if advised.

If I were you, I wouldn’t yet even think about adding raw meat to his diet until you can get his intestinal flora back in balance, although a homemade lightly cooked one could be the way to go for awhile….

[losul]

Yeah what Patty said about the calcium levels and ratios. They were either confused, evasive or both. I think both.

Also one of them made a statement that I found really incredible. Something to the effect that freezing foods lost up to 50% of their nutrients, whereas dehydrated only 10%. My research confirmed for me exactly the opposite.

Otherwise, I agree, the food was interesting.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by losul.

[losul]

Hi ARiem.

I think it’s important to arm yourself with as much knowledge as possible, so you are doing the right thing, but also as Patty said, very important to find a vet and/or nutrititionist. One that is at least willing to research and consult if not already knowledgeable about your dog’s condition him/her self. Your own knowledge combined with a good vet’s guidance can be very powerful stuff.

Your dog sounds like it’s near emaciated (about 30% underweight) and probably your suspicions are correct-slowly starving for nutrition. Also the Hill’s W/D is also very low in protein (17.9% dry matter average). I also think that your best bet can be with homemade meals-but only with the the help and knowledge that is very necessary.

There are many things believed to cause pancreatitis, hereditary predisposition, ingestion of any atypical meal-usually high fat is implied, gallstones or other obstruction in bile duct or pancreatic duct, hyperlipidemia, hypercalcemia, some medicines such as steroids, antibiotics, and immune suppressants, hyperthyroidism, trauma, etc. Each bout with pancreatitis might damage the pancreas further and limits even more the ability to produce digestive enzymes and maybe insulin also.

Again it’s very important to seek professional help, but it’s possible that your dog is one that is actually in dire need of digestive enzymes to survive and thrive. Has your vet ever discussed this or exocrine pancreatic insufficiency? If EPI is the case, he might need the “big guns” pancreatin (porcine or bovine based), rather than less potent or less efficient OTC plant based enzymes. The prescription enzymes can be quite expensive-middlemen, etc. but they are highly standardized and more tightly controlled. If you and your vet find your dog does need these, enzymediane cuts the middleman and I think are comparable to the prescription ones, albeit maybe not as tightly controlled, but MUCH cheaper. It’s saved lives for many that couldn’t afford the prescriptions. My new friend’s GS I think is one of those.

http://www.enzymediane.com/enzymecomparisonchart.htm

a very good site on canine exocrine pancreatic deficiency.

http://www.epi4dogs.com/

Hope this helps and wishing you and your dogs the best.

[losul]

Hi Bella, really so very sorry to hear about Annie.

I assume the cans you used have those pull tops? It seems that all or most of the canned dog foods now have those. The convenience is nice, but I sure wish they would go back to the standard tops (have to be opened with a can opener) for safety reasons. I always worry whether the seal is intact on them and I could see where dents or even something else like a defect could possibly cause the seal to fail unknowingly.

Please do keep us posted on your findings.

[losul]

Interesting video Elcy, thanks for posting.

[losul]

shadowbeagle, actually there was a good discussion on that very topic in the last few weeks, but unfortunately, I think it was on the review message boards, not on the forums were it can be more easily found. I didn’t participate in it, but several of the regulars did. I thought it interesting and informative. It could have been on the “off topic” message board, but not sure. Maybe someone else will know/remember.

Or maybe you could start a new topic in the forums on that subject, so it can more easily be found next time for others. I do remember the link that Cyndi provided was included in that discussion, and was a very interesting part of it.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by losul.

[losul]

Aww so sorry Crusoe, this one has to go back. But look on the bright side, Patty thinks YOU’RE a keeper!

http://celebritydachshund.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/funny-wiener-dog-with-fish.jpg

[losul]

Crusoe thinks it’s a keeper Marie!

http://celebritydachshund.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/dachshund-fishing-costume.jpg

[losul]

If you can manage to pry that darn video controller out of their paws, they actually have some other interests also.

http://www.celebritydachshund.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/wiener-dogs-fishing-together.jpg

http://www.celebritydachshund.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/cute-dachshund-carrot-in-mouth.jpg

http://www.celebritydachshund.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/dachshund-captain-boat.jpg

[losul]

Border collies much prefer real life, hard working, action games. A more laid back fellow like this might be more what cindyfall is looking for;

http://celebritydachshund.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/dahchsund-playing-playstation2.jpg

[losul]

Your welcome kanuckle and glad it worked.

There probably is an easier way, but when it comes to operating a computer, everything is hard for me, lol. I can build a computer, no problems, using/operating one is a whole different story.

[losul]

Kanuckle,

Im not very savvy with this stuff, but it seems like if you do a screenshot(s) of the document first, then you should be able to print it up?

I think windows 7 and above has a snipping tool to make it a little easier to do the screenshots.

[losul]

Marie, yes that brand looks very good, some of the very best for salmon oil I think, but maybe a little pricey. I believe sockeye salmon is excellent, and if Im not mistaken sockeye is never farmed.

One of the other differences is that vital choice is virgin and unrefined, an excellent choice for purists, Iceland pure is distilled and purified. Pluses and minuses on both sides. For one thing the odor and taste.

Edit: one thing, it appears its not preserved with anything, so would have to be extra concerned about freshness.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by losul.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by losul.

[losul]

yeah, I’m very happy with the sardine/anchovy. Probably someone else besides HDM, Im pretty sure she only likes the gel-caps.

[losul]

I was just on their website and found that the sardine and anchovy IS wild caught (I dont think they can be farmed at all anyway) but Iceland Pure does admit to using Norweigian farmed salmon for their salmon oil, so since Ive seen that, and even though they give a good story, i will definitely have to rethink ever trying the salmon oil.

http://www.icelandpure.com/QA_salmon.pdf

Real wild caught salmon is really getting to be a real luxury nowadays, I wonder how many lie about it. I almost could have sworn Iceland Pure used to use wild caught salmon.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by losul.

[losul]

Scott, that grizzly comes in a plastic bottle and is preserved with rosemary, right?

I only use those that come in either a very dark glass bottle or epoxied aluminum bottle, and only preserved with mixed tocopherols. I keep it in frig, and after a month or so, I refresh the tocopherols in it to replace the ones that likely become used up. Nearly non detectable odor or taste. This is what I am currently using, the sardine/anchovy oil, next time I will rotate with their salmon oil.

[losul]

Oh believe me, I know all bout the round tuit thing, lol. I have lotso those pending……………..

[losul]

Hi Molzy,

About the chronic wasting disease- these tissues are known to harbor and concentrate the abnormal proteins-prions- brain, spinal cord, eyes, spleen, tonsils, lymph nodes in an infected animal, although I’ve also read they can be in other tissues, even in blood.

Even high temperature cooking/irradiation does not destroy them.

Its not likely your dog or even you would get anything from them, specific prions have difficulty jumping the species barrier, although it HAS been thought/known to happen. Dogs thus far, and as far as I know, havent been reported to get any prion diseases, but it doesnt neccesarily mean they dont, cant or wont. So far there are about 4 or 5 of these transmissible and fatal prion diseases known to occur in humans, 1 in cats, 1 in cattle (BSE or mad cow) 1 in sheep/goats (scrapie) 1 in mink.

I posted about it the other day as a precautionary measure. You might want to avoid eating or feeding any of the above tissues if you live in a an area where CWD is known to be prevalent in the wild, or any tissues at all from a deer, elk or moose that is behaving sickly or oddly.

Here is more info on Transmissible spongiform encephalopathys, see also chronic wasting disease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmissible_spongiform_encephalopathy

About MPC and their calorie fiasco. Thats something that recently appeared on their website. I agree there is absolutely no way those figures are correct. Also their protein and fat figures dont always jive. The bad thing is that the phone number that they provide is Paul’s cell phone number. I called Paul about two weeks ago when I saw these figures onsite. Paul also personally makes deliveries, which he was doing when I called. I told him that their was no way the calorie counts were right, take the chicken super mix for example-theres no way 1 pound could contain only 217 calories, and especially given the very high (supposedly) fat figures given. Even skinless, boneless chicken breast has way more calories than that. He told me that they had folks wanting to know the calorie counts so they obtained lab results showing those figures. I still insisted something was very wrong. He said that he could check back with the lab, but couldnt do much until he returned from his deliveries which would be a week or so. So I told him I would be calling back. Your post reminded me to call him, and I just got off the phone with him. He now agrees that something isnt right (probably has had lotso phone calls about), but that they still havent got it sorted out. When/if they get that sorted out I have more questions/concerns for him.

[losul]

PrincessPiper,

If you happen to live in one of the areas where chronic wasting disease (a prion disease similar to BSE in cows or scrapie in sheep) is prevalent in wild deer/elk/moose populations, as a precaution, you might want to avoid feeding (or eating yourself) these tissues- brain, spinal cord, eyes, spleen, tonsils, lymph nodes, no matter raw or cooked.

Its now spread to parts of at least 21 states and 2 Canadian provinces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_wasting_disease

[losul]

HDM, I agree , I like and respect Carlson brand and what you are doing checking it is good. Those round wooden toothpicks work very well also for puncturing also if using caps. I ‘m partial to quality bottled myself. Most of other brands in gel caps I don’t have any respect for, many of them now using enteric coated to mask the belching of bad tastes/odors and probable rancidity, as the enteric won’t dissolve until after leaving the stomach.

I do use very small amounts of the same NOW tocopherols/tocotreinals in gel caps that you use, and use toothpicks to squeeze out the small amounts I need, though even that can be had in a more natural whole food form-red palm oil.

I

[losul]

LOL

I’ve sampled a couple of dog foods, but I definitely have my limits. I could never, ever become a kibble kruncher. I have however tasted most parrot pellets and nuts/seed though before we feed, and by experiences, I’m glad I do so.

On the supplements, human or not, as limited as we use them, and especially with having very loose regulations, to put it lightly, I personally rarely ever use any pill, tablet or capsule, preferring to rely on senses like taste, smell, and sight. Take fish oil for example. If you swallow gel caps of it, how would you know if it might be rancid until you begin to belch vile tastes and odors? And in the case of enteric coated caps you won’t even get any warning at all. It’s also really hard to determine the actual source, process, etc. used.

Anyone that is a regular sunflower seed eater, especially with the hull on, has probably had the opportunity to taste what complete rancidity/spoilage is like. One bad seed chewed can put out such a horrible taste, it can seem like hours to get the taste out, even with thorough rinsing and brushing.

Btw, I forgot. dulse sprinkled into chili just before serving is also especially tasty, IMO, you can still use cheddar cheese as a topping also 🙂 . Not me, but some people eat whole dried dulse like other folks would potato chips.

[losul]

Hi HDM.

Yeah, the taste of Amazing grass does take getting used to. lol. We don’t use the flavored ones. I guess the green tea could be a concern for the animals if it contained very much of it or if giving alot of it.

About the purple dulse, I always use it in place of kelp -small amounts. The taste takes some getting used to it too, more than a little fishy hah. Seems kind of addictive once used to it. Powdered good on popcorn and as a substitute for salt.

Many times kelp is harvested in heavily polluted waters, and supposedly tends to really absorb those nasties. The dulse usually comes from much cleaner waters. Mine comes from Nova Scotia.

[losul]

Turbo, that’s my dogs name when he’s a good boy. Turdbowl or Trouble when he’s not so good, lol.

[losul]

Hy Cyndi!

By now you have maybe already looked it up. I don’t see any serious problem with what you did. In fact I sometimes do the same with small quantitities to be used fairly quickly. Sometimes it’s just not very feasible to do any other way. I guess I mostly just used the opportunity to plug Steve’s book again, lol. While I don’t consider it to be the absolute gospel, I do think he gives a solid foundation to start, so I highly reccomend to folks thinking about starting a raw and/or fresh diet, balancing foods, and/or improving a dogs processed food diet with minimum effort, along with other good tips and advice, and interesting tidbits like gross inaccuracies of professional laboratory analysis testing.

The only thing he hypothesizes about about mixing in vegetables with ground meats before freezing, is that it can further degrade nutrients in the meats and shortens the shelf life because of additional ice crystal formation further damaging the cell walls and making even more exposed to oxidizing agents. It could be a consideration if prepping and freezing for longer periods, or for commercial raw foods that already contain veggies. He says to insist on knowing the production date and then determine yourself the quality shelf life, not just on some of the manufacturers proclaimed 12 month expiration date.

Other things about frozen storage;

for frozen at constant 0 degress, ground meats and whole poultry giblets, USDA only determines to be considered quality that they are used in 3 to 4 months. Whole meats, roasts, poultry, etc., up to 1 year.

Once frozen, and especially ground meats and fish, or especially those with delicate polyunsturated fats, oxidation, degradation, enzyme activity, etc continues, albeit at a slower pace. Ice crystals also grow steadily, increasing damage to cell walls.

I’ve tried to get one friend interested in feeding her (health problems)dogs better, and I had left the book for her to read. She will still have nothing to do with raw, but I thought I had some of it sinking in until visiting recently I saw she again had a large bag of kibble standing wide open in her too warm laundry room. I scolded her carefully(again), closed the bag and brought it in, went and got my book and insisted She read right then and there the section on kibble storage.

I’m convinced that many of todays illnesses are caused by rancidity, nutrient degradation, molds and mycotoxins, and infestatations, from kibble stored too long or under inadequate conditions, especially with the move away from toxic, but more effective, chemical preservatives, and the move towards more delicate fats, and presumably much less toxic, but also much less efficient natural preservatives. I currently feed only about 25% kibble, majority raw, and the rest canned. Probably in the near future I will go to 100% or near, home prepped raw.

[losul]

Hmm. Now checking the link I just posted to see if it works, it shows another pricing, this time not directly from Amazon.

If you check again sometime later, it will very likely have the product again directly from them.

[losul]

Sandy another thing if you would rather have an all in one, whole food, super greens/antioxidant/enzyme, I think this is a very good one you might consider. We generally use this for ourselves, sometimes the birds, only occaisonally have given to our dog.

If you move cursor to one of the pics along left side, and then to the pic, you can easily see the ingredients. It shows it not available at the moment. I just ordered more last week, the price was substantially lower, and it was still readily available. My price was only $34 and change under subscribe and save for the 28 ounce. evidently the excellent pricing brought big demand. They probably still have smaller sizes available immediately, although maybe too costly.

[losul]

Sandy, If you live within MPC’s delivery area, they will take check or cash upon delivery, when you pick up.

Also many/most sites use paypal as an option, and I’m pretty sure you can link your checking account to paypal for payment instead of credit or debit cards.

[losul]

Hi Cyndi.

Do you by chance have the book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet”? If you do, pages 90 and 91 (2010 edition) gives very good info on frozen storage and quality concerns. The rest of chapter 7 “Storing Foods to Retain Quality” gives excellent info for storing dry foods

[losul]

I think she means once per day. Even at that, keep in mind, that each teaspoon of coconut oil has about 45 calories….

Don’t let it be too significant a percentage of your dogs calorie intake, IMO.

[losul]

The funny thing about the Carrington is that it was solid at room temp. when I purchased it, but over about the last 6 weeks, it’s gradually become more liquid at a constant 73- 74 degree temperature in my house. Now the whole jar is mostly liquid. The efa gold always stayed solid unless warmed to maybe 78 or so.

The semi liquid is easier to mix in dog/bird food, but I prefer using a knife instead of a spoon to spread it on human foods, like toast, and it just looks better in a solid white form to me.

[losul]

That’s a really good price. My Costco has a different brand, and different size of coconut oil. It’s Carrington Farms 54 oz unrefined, cold pressed, organic, extra virgin for $14.99.

The Carrington tastes as good as what i’m accustomed to, but the melting point is lower than the Efa gold brand I was using. At 73, 74 degrees, the Carrington is pretty much liquid already.

[losul]

James, I just now saw your original post on this thread and felt compelled to reply.

Seems you are being way unreasonable and YOU are the one at fault. Several things, you waited 10+ months to make any complaint to Steve Brown. It was your responsibility to check dates, your responsibility to know the prices, your responsibility that marking them up in price over retail they didn’t sell for you, etc. And why would they be so “messy” by cutting them open? Try cutting them open with scissors next time.

My suggestion, throw the expired product away, accept responsibilty and pay for your OWN mistakes and quit pestering Steve Brown and Company with unreasonable demands.

I haven’t tried Steve’s products yet, (except his books, ancestral diet my fav) but your frivolous complaints would no way hinder me from trying them.

[Author]

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