[jakes mom]

Zohar, I don’t eat meat either but have recently started feeding a bit of raw food to my dog and cats. These forums are a wonderful resource, BCnut has been a great help to me. The only thing I would add is that maybe you don’t need to bother making a trip to a butcher shop. A local grocery store has beef and pork ribs and you can ask them to cut a slab of ribs into pieces for you. Good luck, I’m sure Penny will love a rib bone! My dog, a beagle/basset mix is a 30ish pound dog and he also loves chicken backs.

[jakes mom]

OK, thanks BCnut. I am just looking for stuff to give the dog and cats more as a healthy treat as opposed to really “feeding raw” so not worried about calcium or other nutrients, still counting on the kibble to supply that. I have been looking at just raw stuff like the bones, hearts and gizzards, chicken backs and chicken and beef liver. I’ve seen a lot of smoked hocks and knew not to give anything like that so was interested when I saw the fresh hocks. Have noticed that a lot of the chicken parts are “enhanced” so have avoided that as well.

[jakes mom]

BCnut, thanks, maybe I’ll go back and take another look. And what about the pork hocks? I need to freeze pork, right? Is there anything I would find at the grocery store meat counter that I shouldn’t feed?

[jakes mom]

Akari, I agree with everyone else’s comments and would just add one thing. The cat’s face is sensitive, maybe you’re annoying him, especially if you’re touching the very sensitive whiskers. There’s also something called hyperesthesia, a syndrome where kitties are ultra sensitive to touch, especially on the back. I doubt that’s the case with you, I think he’s probably just young and rowdy!! I have a cat who’s very touchy about his back. He likes me to pet him but I need to watch how he’s acting and know when to quit.
Raw food people…I was at the store this afternoon and saw fresh pork hocks and pig tails! Also ox tails on sale for soup. Has anybody fed a pig tail? Looked like a good size but I wasn’t sure so I didn’t get them. Are any or all of them ok? I was pretty sure the hocks would be ok?
C4C, I know what you mean about the strange looks from some people, but have you also noticed that some of those people, the ones with just one or 2 cats, seem to come to us for advice? lol

[jakes mom]

C4C, Benjamin is one of my 5 cats. Jake is my only dog now. Lucky for him they all get along, he’s outnumbered! Not uncommon for me to find them all on the bed together.

[jakes mom]

Akari, great picture! He’s adorable!
Bobby dog, thanks for the good wishes for Benjamin, he’s home, everything went fine. He’s sitting beside me, sulking. lol! Jake had a frozen chick back after our walk this evening, it was warm out and he was panting pretty good so thought that would be a nice cool treat. He gave me a puzzled look but then started chewing pretty quickly.
My cats love the Merrick Purrfect Bistro chicken, haven’t tried any of the others, thanks for the list.

[jakes mom]

Welcome Sharon! My cats were not thrilled with the dry Wellness either. Glad to hear your input on the cat foods, we’re all always looking for new things to try.
Bobby dog, Jake’s getting better with his chicken backs, he’s used to them now and really enjoys them. Gave everybody, dog and cats, hearts and gizzard again, very popular. C4C you really need to try some with your guys!
My poor guy Benjamin is at the vet tonite. Hate to leave him overnite but have to be at work at 7am so can’t drop him off in the morning. Somehow he broke a tooth so tomorrow he will have it extracted and while they’re at it will do a cleaning on his other teeth.

[jakes mom]

Bobby dog, Jake likes beef liver. I have not found beef heart yet but he’s eaten everything else so I’m hopeful.
I thought the usda site was very helpful. I was surprised that they mentioned raw food, would have expected it to be food that people usually eat, but I searched “calories raw chicken” and it came up. It’s the usda nutritional database if you look for it. You can search a category like poultry or type in a specific like chicken.
No time to check the ABC thing yet. We have 3 techs out on sick leave right now so I’m working a lot of extra hours. Sounds interesting,tho. Just what I need as I really don’t think I’ll go completely raw. Can’t afford the complete raw like Darwin’s and don’t want to get involved in buying supplements and trying to concoct a healthy combo. Will count on good quality dog food to supply the specifics and add in some raw. Certainly a bit of heart or liver is a better treat than most of those things in the store!

[jakes mom]

Thanks, I will definitely check that site.
I looked on the USDA nutrition site today. They have a big list of all kinds of food. I looked up chicken and got a list of everything from KFC chicken to raw chicken liver (bingo!). Tells you everything you’d want to know from calories (kcals) to protein, carbs, etc. For example 100grams (about 3.5oz) of chick liver is 119 calories. So now we can figure how much to decrease our kibble depending on what else doggy is getting that day. I just checked on chicken today, maybe look up pork or beef when I get a chance. Also per 100 grams:
hearts 153 cal
ground chick 143 cal
giblets 127 cal
gizzards 94 cal

[jakes mom]

Bobby dog and C4C…what is this ABC book you mentioned? I must have missed something? Sounds good.

[jakes mom]

I’ve used both the cat and dog One Beyond and thought it was pretty good, too.
I tried beef liver with the kids tonite. Jake loved it, cats not so much. But they love the chicken livers.

[jakes mom]

Not ready, even close, to going all raw so I want to keep feeding the kibble to make sure all the bases are covered as far as nutrition. Don’t want to get involved in adding all kinds of supplements, etc. I’m thinking of the raw as healthy treats, not meals, at this point. I am in awe of the knowledge on the raw food forum!

[jakes mom]

Just started with some chicken backs , liver, hearts and gizzards. Cats and dog all seem to be enjoying it altho the first couple of backs had the dog a little puzzled. Next question, how do I balance the raw and kibble? I don’t want to be feeding too many calories. I gave Jake a little less kibble for his evening meal when he’d had a chick back earlier that afternoon.

[jakes mom]

Raw update time….hearts and gizzards very popular at my house! Jake bouncing up and down and cats shrieking! lol! Chicken livers good, too, just bought beef liver to try tomorrow when it thaws. He still has some chicken backs to eat, too. I don’t want to give too much and risk GI issues. And I don’t know how to figure in the raw food calorie-wise. I gave a little less kibble when feeding some raw, don’t want to be adding too many new calories.
C4C, most of my cats like the raw livers, hearts and gizzards. I started to cut them up and one cat took a piece whole and had a good time chewing it. It was also still slightly frozen so that made it take a little longer, too. She really seemed to enjoy it.

[jakes mom]

C4C, thanks so much for that article, I recommend it to everyone. Very informative.

[jakes mom]

Bobby dog, that’s exactly what I had read, to not worry if Mom’s not at the nest, they only come a few times a day. But I was so surprised that he actually gave it to me! With my other dogs I would have had to pry their mouth open!
I’m hoping Jake will do well with the bones. I would like him to do the bones if nothing else to help with his teeth. He had it this afternoon, before dinner. I gave him a little less kibble but I have no idea what the chicken would equal as far as calories. Maybe BCnut can advise us on that aspect?

[jakes mom]

Here in Ohio we only do HW meds june-nov unless it’s been an unusually warm year. Seems to vary from vet to vet whether dog gets tested every year.
Bobby dog, Jake had his second piece of chicken back and it was about like the first time. I gave it to him and he just kind of looked at it, then me, back at the chicken, gave it a lick. He played with it for a couple of minutes, kept glancing at me. I told him he was on his own, I wasn’t going to hold it again! After playing with it he settled down and chewed it up!
I wish I knew what he was thinking. He likes it obviously, since he ate it, but he doesn’t go crazy, all bouncy and excited, like he does with other treats. Bobby sounds like a cutie, that’s quite a combo! I love it when the ears don’t match the body! Or ears so long it looks like they’ll trip over them! lol
Jake found a bunny nest on our walk in the woods today! He was sniffing under a log and lifted his head, had a tiny bunny in his mouth! Really tiny,eyes still closed. Lungs worked, tho! Was squealing like crazy! I put my hand out and told Jake to drop it and he gave it to me. Seemed ok, wiggling all around , no blood. Jake has a pretty soft mouth. So I put it back into the nest and we’ll stay away from that area for a while! I’ve read that bunny moms don’t care if there’s human scent at the nest, they’ll still care for the babies. So I hope that’s the case anyway! It was so tiny, I could have fit 2 in the palm of my hand! Just adorable!

[jakes mom]

Akari, I would be very careful about ordering flea meds over the web. Lots of imitations and fakes out there and who knows about the active ingredients and their concentrations. Cats are so sensitive to chemicals! I got Capstar at PetSuppliesPlus. You could still give him a dose or 2 while waiting for the preventative to kick in. I don’t use preventatives any more since I moved from the country and all the cats are strictly indoor. I’d go with one that kills all stages so you’re covered when eggs already laid on pets or in the house hatch.
Bobby dog, maybe Bobby has a little GSP in him, they have a blue /gray/brownish coat too and that would account for the bird obsession! lol! He might be OK with a whole chicken back instead of a half. I cut mine in half longways because it seemed kind of big for Jake but you can see what you think when you open them. I imagine every package will be different depending on the chicken and the butcher, lol!

[jakes mom]

Akari, I used Capstar years ago, it worked really well. But if I remember correctly it’s not a preventative, it just kills adult fleas and used mostly for an infestation. You’d still need Program or something monthly.
Bobby dog, Jake is a beagle basset mix. He’s 9 1/2 years old, 30ish pounds. He’s the only dog I have left, lost my other 2 in the past year and a half, one to heart failure at 13yo and the other to lymphoma last fall when he was 11. Hoping these changes will help keep Jake with me a lot longer. I’ll give him another hunk of chicken tomorrow, see how he does second time around. Seems like a couple of the cats have changed their minds about the liver, or maybe just not interested tonite. Who knows with them, right?

[jakes mom]

Well, the chicken back was very well received! They had a lot of fat/skin globs so I trimmed some of it off. He was very interested while I was trimming. I gave him a bit of the meat and he ate it so I thought that was probably a good sign. He wasn’t sure about the back when I gave it to him. He kind of looked at it and licked it. I sat on the floor and encouraged him. He licked it and kept looking at me. I ended up holding it for him for a few minutes. Yuk. But he started to chew as I held it, I kind of played tug with him at first. Finally he settled down on the floor with it and happily chewed away for about 15 minutes. I actually cut them in half, they seemed kind of big for him so now I have 7 more in the freezer. Was happy to see that he didn’t go too fast and gulp it down, I was worried about that. The cats were all interested, too. Maybe I’ll get some wings for them to try, I think the backs would be hard to cut down to kitty size. I had enough trouble getting them cut in half. Thanks BCnut for the encouragement! I saw pork necks at the store too. maybe I’ll try those next time?

[jakes mom]

yeah, maybe that’s it! lol The liver is a whole different texture, maybe that’s something to consider, too. Not tough like a muscle. Did you ask the meat dept at a grocery for the hearts/gizzards or did you go to a butcher or specialty market?
I guess I’m lucky with my 5, they’re not very picky, don’t fight with each other and Dustin, my thyroid kitty, even comes when called to get his meds.

[jakes mom]

yes, the liver was raw. I just cut it into smaller pieces and said, “hey, look what Mom has!”.
My 12yo girl Julie, was actually shrieking as I was cutting it up! I didn’t give too much, didn’t want any GI issues. I froze the rest in a freezer bag. Flattened it out and figure I can crack off a chunk when I want it.

[jakes mom]

I gave the cats and Jake some chix livers today, they loved it!! Also bought some chix backs, will give one to Jake tomorrow.
Bobby dog, I agree with you, I wish my guys had never eaten dry food or soy, wheat, etc! But you know that old saying,” when you know better, you do better” Now that’s us, doing better for our kids!
I keep forgetting to tell you and C4c about another DIY cat box. When I was a crazier cat lady and had 13, I used one of those plastic kid’s pools as a cat box. The sides aren’t very high so not a good choice if you have a cat that flings litter around but good for older cats or babies to climb in and out.
I also have a hyperthyroid cat, he’s almost 19 and doing great. He still loves to play and holds his own with the other ones when we play with the fishing pole type toys.
One more food to add to our list if you don’t mind “cheating” once in a while . I accidently grabbed a can of dog food instead of cat. My cats absolutely loved BB Basics turkey and potato dog food!

[jakes mom]

I’ve been reading a lot about rotating foods, you may want to consider that. You could give the dogs whatever good quality food you happen to have coupons for or whatever’s on sale. Lots of good info and discussion about rotation on these forums.

[jakes mom]

Akari, yay! I knew he’d finally try it. I bet seeing the dog do it was the push he needed. He wouldn’t want to let the dog have anything just to himself! lol!
I’ve tried several flavors of Sheba and my cats won’t eat it. I bought some wellness food, dry and canned and they weren’t thrilled with that, either, brats! They do like chick soup, Merrick, TOTW and Natural Balance. That’s why it’s good to have a dog, too, he’s more than happy to clean up the unwanted cat food.
BCn, I bought chicken backs and chicken livers today, will let you know what the kids think about it. Also saw pork necks, would that be good for Jake?

[jakes mom]

Akari, I mentioned subq fluids in my comments last nite. That’s subcutaneous, under the skin, you wouldn’t see any shaved area. They just put a needle under the skin, the fluid gets absorbed. It might have all disappeared by the time you picked him up. But I would think they would have told you or at least it should have been noted on your bill if they itemized. Anyway, it was just a thought, trying to think of a reason for the bigger clumps at that time. Sounds like he’s doing ok with his regular litter again. I really wouldn’t worry about trying to get him to drink broth and extra water. Keep adding the water to his canned food and that should be fine.

[jakes mom]

Akari, I would say it means he’s not blocked if he’s producing that much but could still have a UTI or cystitis. Some kitties are prone to cystitis and it can be stress related. He’s had a lot going on lately! You’re giving him plenty of opportunity to drink and get water in his food so I’d stop worrying about that part. You mentioned that he was peeing big clumps after his “treatment”, I wonder if the vet gave him any fluids? If he got some subQ fluids that would account for the big clumps you saw at that time and now he’s making regular sized clumps?

[jakes mom]

Akari, didn’t mean to worry you. Just saying the smaller sized clumps are normal for my guys. If he was older I’d be worried about large urine clumps (possible sign of diabetes) but he’s a young guy so probably not an issue. We’re all going round and round with the smell and the size of the clumps, etc. I think you’ve got the right idea, call the vet in the morning and see what they say. Better safe than sorry. And I’d just toss the rest of that brown litter so you can see if there’s any blood in the urine. Or clean it and leave the empty box, see if he’ll pee in there and you can bring a sample to the vet.

[jakes mom]

I agree with pugmomsandy. Protein wouldn’t cause renal problems in older dogs, but if an older dog has renal issues they should be on a lower protein food to help the kidneys do their job filtering. Otherwise, older dogs need their protein!
In general I think a healthy dog doesn’t need “senior” food, just another marketing gimmick in my opinion.

[jakes mom]

Akari, maybe he’s just not a chicken kind of guy? Try turkey?
I agree with Bobby dog, if the litter box habits have changed, that’s troubling. On average the clumps in my cat’s boxes are 2-3 inches. Fist sized sounds large to me.
As far as getting him to drink more, my 5 like clam juice and canned clams in broth. Clams are naturally salty so maybe that will make him thirsty,too.

[jakes mom]

Thanks, BC nut, I will check out the meat next time I go to the store. Do I need to freeze it before feeding it? Assuming we’re killing bacteria or parasites by freezing?

Akari, I know you don’t want to spend the money if you don’t have to but I’d probably run the cat back to the vet, especially if your Mom says the pee smells bad. Or could you get a sample and bring it to the vet?
And give him more time with the new water bowl, my guys wouldn’t go near their fountain for a day and a half or so. I left it just sitting there, off, so they could check it out, then filled it. When they were comfortable drinking from it, then I plugged it in. He’s had an awful lot of changes lately, maybe he just needs more time. Who knows why he doesn’t like it, is it a plastic one? Maybe it smells a little funny to him? Or the motor’s making him a little nervous. Hang in there!

[jakes mom]

BCnut, I just had a couple of general questions. I don’t want to go to completely raw yet but wonder if it would be good to give Jake something raw now and then. Like a piece of chicken for supper instead of his kibble some days, or some stew beef or chix on top of his kibbles. He’s a beagle mix, healthy, 9 years old, 30ish pounds. Can I do the same for the cats? Can I just hand them a small chunk of meat or piece of a wing? And I read something about freezing for 2 weeks. Does everything need to be frozen before feeding?
Thanks!
Akari, not up to your level of course, but I got a bag of Wellness treats and 2 big cans of Core for .98!

[jakes mom]

Have not seen any replies to my question on the raw forum, it’s been a week, I’m kind of surprised nobody’s posted anything yet. But if I see anything I’ll let you know.
Akari, how did Kitty like his chix wing?

[jakes mom]

I’m also interested in feeding a little raw to my guys, dog and cats. I asked a few questions on the raw food forum a few days ago but nobody has responded yet. Please let us know how you make out with giving Roger/Gary a chix wing or chunk of stew beef. He’s a very lucky cat! And thanks for the comments about the BB litter, I’d been thinking of trying it. And you may reconsider a water fountain, my guys are not especially fond of the faucet either but they all love the ceramic fountain. I’m sure they drink more than they ever did from a plain water bowl. Were a little wary of it at first, I ended up unplugging it for a day til they got used to the look of it.

[jakes mom]

thanks, I thought it would be ok, my main concern was what BCnut mentioned, the kibble getting damp and maybe moldy.

[jakes mom]

thank you Betsy, I will certainly check them out. So glad I found DFA, am learning so much about so many things.

[jakes mom]

Hi All, I am finding this raw food forum so interesting, just read it thru from beginning to end! I’m not ready to feed raw yet, actually got started on DFA to check the rating for my dog’s kibble. However, I’m wondering about adding some raw to Jake’s diet. He’s a beagle mix, 30ish pounds, 9 years old, good health. Can I just throw a chicken liver or 2 in with his kibble? Give him a wing or back as a treat? A chunk of stew beef now and then? Can he have a chicken thigh for dinner in place of his kibble some days? And what is this 2 week freeze I’ve heard mentioned? Do I need to freeze all meat before I give it to him? Am I killing a parasite by doing this? He loves fruits and vegies , he gets whatever I’m eating that day. Better to cook/steam them or just let him have it raw? Will still give kibble, at least for now so not worried about him needing supplements. Also, can I feed my cats the same way? Some chicken or beef in addition to their regular food? Can a cat chew up a chicken wing safely? Or more likely, a piece of a wing? Thanks!

[jakes mom]

have you tried putting a small dish (like a custard cup or ramekin) upside down in Bentley’s bowl? I did that for one of my guys and it slowed him down a little.

[jakes mom]

Berkley and Jensen’s dry got 4 stars on the DFA list. Earth’s pride just a different name? I looked at the bag at BJ’s last night , ingred. look the same but don’t know about the source.

[jakes mom]

thanks everyone. I have a health food store not far from me, I’ll check there for the coconut oil. I’m pretty sure Jake will like it, the only thing I ever offered him that he didn’t want was a piece of celery!

[jakes mom]

so glad I found this site, I’m learning so much! Coconut oil for their teeth? The same coconut oil used for cooking? How much do I give him and how? Let him lick it like Shasta220 does? Can I put it on his brush? He doesn’t mind getting his teeth brushed, I’m lucky I guess. Can I offer coconut oil to the cats,too?

[jakes mom]

Born in California, raised in RI, now in Ohio. Right now I have 5 cats (all strays, your basic domestics, one longhair 18yo and 4 shorthairs btwn 12 and 14 yo). Also have a 10yo beagle basset mix. Had a bunch of misc critters growing up, dogs, parakeets, turtles,fish,hamsters. No cats, tho…my Mom hated cats. I’m making up for it now I guess!

[jakes mom]

just started grain free canned trying to help one of my cats with chronic ear infections. All 5 of my cats absolutely loved Wellness turkey formula, but none liked the chicken flavor.
As far as dental health, I read somewhere that giving them a bit of meat to gnaw on helps scrape off some plaque/tarter. Anybody have experience or opinion on that? I’m a little nervous about giving them raw meat altho I know there’s a lot of raw food fans out there.

[jakes mom]

thanks, I’m going to check out the wellness site, tried a few cans and all the cats love it. Hope Gary’s feeling better today. Before you put a cone on him, I might try a bit of some kind of “hot spot” lotion , see if that soothes the area enough that he leaves it alone.

[jakes mom]

Does anyone know how long it will take to see improvement in Smudge if the food change is helping her ear? A couple of weeks? Month? I’m anxious and hopeful!
Bobby dog…can’t help it, seems like the strays always know where the suckers live, don’t they?

[jakes mom]

Interesting! Glad we don’t…at one time I had 13 cats!

[jakes mom]

I agree with BCnut, all my guys have multiple names, too. They come to the sound of your voice, they don’t care what you call them.
Just curious, where do you live, Akari? I’ve never heard of a county licensing cats, just dogs. Boy, hope they don’t start doing that here in Ohio!
The cat’s adorable by the way. Thanks for the pics! And I’m jealous of your food stash! lol
I’m still trying new foods for my kitty, Smudge, for her ear infection issue. Hoping to see improvement on this “limited ingredient” food.

[jakes mom]

thanks, I’ll check out their site. My guys aren’t usually too picky. If Smudge (the one with the ear issue) won’t eat something, the others will. So it won’t go to waste but don’t want to be spending extra $ on specific stuff for her that she won’t eat, ya know?

[jakes mom]

thanks for the encouragement, she’s been a bit of a pain about eating. lol! I was putting her in a separate room to eat so the others wouldn’t take her “special” food. Maybe she doesn’t like that. I may try feeding everybody her food for a week or two, that way whatever bowl she eats from will be ok. If it’s a food allergy, how long do you think it will take for her to show improvement?
I have PetSuppliesPlus and Petsmart near me, no Petco. I may order online later, if I can find something she’ll eat a whole case of!

[jakes mom]

Thanks, have not tried those brands. My guys (I have 5, poor dog is outnumbered!) usually don’t like the shredded/chunk type foods, they just lick off the gravy and leave the pieces! Brats! But maybe I can chop it up so small that she’d have to eat some of it!

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