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Curious as to why the mushrooms are in the probiotics you linked to. Did she say when you emailed her?
Hmm.. the other thing that worked for Dom was putting him on a good quality probiotic as well. (Thanks to wonderful suggestions from the dog lovers here, actually! :] )
Might be too much protein or his tummy might be disagreeing with something in the food. Try mixing in a little bit of plain canned pumpkin would be my suggestion, as it’s worked for me before.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by EHubbman.
Page 15 has the updated list.
Found a great article I thought some people here could find useful – it’s all about transitioning and starting a rotational feeding plan. 🙂
Thank you for the info!
My little dude is on RX food right now, trying to figure out a kibble he can switch to after some major tummy issues. Going to get him stable on that and then go into partial raw/full raw. We’ll see. Thanks again!
My guy is on Dr. Langer’s 15 strain probiotic from Swansons and is doing awesome on it, we’ve not had any troubles. I’d definitely recommend it.
Also not Patty, but along with what Marie was saying, it also works well to keep your dog’s gut active and able to adjust to changes more, is something I’ve found in the past.
No food is ever complete, so rotating also helps to balance a diet, and keep it interesting for your pups. (I wouldn’t like eating the same thing every day for my entire life, I know that!)
Marie/anyone- You say you rotate with pre-made raw and grinds; do you keep a certain amount of time between kibble/raw? I’ve been reading a few things that you need to wait XX hours between kibble/raw because kibble slows the gut down, which can let bad bacteria from the raw cultivate in the gut. Then others say that it doesn’t matter so much. Your thoughts?
- This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by EHubbman.
*waves* another St. Louisan! I don’t know any other brands around here other than Primal and Stella’s, presonally. I know mypetcarnivore delivers around the STL area, and a lot of the raw feeds around here go through ross wells, too.
There’s a group on facebook:
(I hope that links shows up) and they might be a good resource for you!
Hi Marie! 😀
P.s. My name is Emily! 😀 (So you don’t have to type out the whole username) *waves hi* 😀
I should clarify a bit, haha! The things I was reading were more along the lines of 50% meat/bone/organ and 50% raw fruit and veg (or other ratios around those amounts), which is why I was wanting to stay away from those, because that kinda seems like an obnoxious amount of fruit/veg. I was finding these ratios on pages for the BARF diet, where prey model raw pages were more towards meat/bone/organs with supplements.
More what I mean by feeling more towards prey model is what I’m seeing more frequently here and among those I know that feed raw. The main majority of the meal is meat/bone/organ, but they do supplement with good stuff. (Am I calling it the wrong thing by saying prey model?)
Patty, that mix sounds like a good treat! I’m sure Dom would love it, he loves frozen treats.
HDM, Thanks! I’ll definitely be checking in on those books. A good friend just recommended “Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs: The Definitive Guide to Homemade Meals” by Lew Olson, so I’ve been trying to read that.
Random thought, since I’ve seen it a few times on forums: Garlic for dogs? I would think that since it’s a member of the allium family, wouldn’t it be bad for dogs? Yet I see people saying “add it to the food to make your dog eat it!”
Kind of in the same vein as feeding green things- I’m noticing some raw diet resources are mentioning the feeding of fruits and veggies. You guys’ thoughts on this? I personally think I’ll be sticking more with prey model raw, but just curious on what you guys have to say.
And lol, somebodysme! Knowing the coffee feeling today (from your first post)! I figured since these forums are such a wealth of.info, might as well ask this one!
Thanks for the great info on cod liver oil, HDM! I’ve got a few books on raw that I need to get reading and figure out where Dominic needs to be as far as supplements/add-ins.
Typing this on mobile, please excuse any weird typing!
- This reply was modified 7 years, 8 months ago by EHubbman.
I don’t see it as hijacking the thread at all! Good questions! 🙂
My little guy personally likes Zuke’s Mini Naturals.
Lol, yeah I do!
I’ll have to see if I can find the specific links, but the basic jist was that it had too high of Vitamin A which can build up and cause some sort of damage. Some mentioned using fish or fish body oil instead.
Thank you so so much for all the info! Are there any special considerations I need to take with a growing large breed pup?
I’ve seen a few forums mention that cod liver oil can be bad for a pup, even though it aids in brain development.
Thank you so much, Sandy! I’ll have to check these out!
Ha, sorry, but thank you for all the info! I really appreciate it! There’s just so much info out there that I end up running in circles.
Thanks, InkedMarie. 🙂
Sending good thoughts your way, Patty!
Hershy – hooray for second chances! Wishing for best of luck for you and Charlotte!
Ok! Back from the vet!
I was seriously not impressed with the care we got from the one I’d been bringing family pets to since I was six, so we went elsewhere. That seriously miffed me. They’d been great with all our other pets, but then I brought in my little guy at 14 weeks (!) and I think the vet just had it out for him because he’s seen as a bully breed. Vets shouldn’t be breedist, methinks, because they see good and bad examples of all breeds, big and small, bad rep or not. Off my soapbox, though. She wouldn’t believe me when I said he had tapeworms and even brought in a sample with the segment clearly sitting right on top, among other things. I talked to her about giardia and she’s like, no he doesn’t have it, without testing and seemed quite reluctant upon my insistence of it.
SO! New vet, recommended from a friend, who also happens to be a vet tech there, which was wonderful. They were going to run the EPI and fecal pathogen test, but the vet did a wellness check on him and his body condition, activity level, and personality were all awesome, so we’re starting first with a diet change. She said the funny color stools were because the last vet’s response to my saying “please help, diarrhea for a month now” was just to throw antibiotics at him that did nothing, so his gut is all sort of out of whack. The did a wellness check, fecal float, coccidia and giardia tests, and a few other things I don’t remember off the top of my head.
We’re trying a royal canin RX GI food (ewewew, I cringe at the ingredient list!) for two weeks. So for two weeks, all he’s allowed to ingest is the GI food, and boiled chicken as training treats. She wants to keep him on the Fortiflora (because she’s used to it) just for now, but when I asked her about the 15 strain supplement you told me about, she was all for it. We went for the abrupt change because his gut is so messed up, and once he’s stable we’re going to slowly transition him to raw. I love that I found a vet that is all for raw and can’t wait to help me swap to it!!! She seems amazing, and I love her team. 🙂 If, though, the 2 week seriously limited diet does nothing, though, then he gets to go through a gauntlet of testing. She’s almost completely certain, though, that it’s dietary and not anything seriously wrong, which helps me breathe easier.
Although I’m not a fan of the GI food ingredients and fortiflora, I’m ok with it for now, just to get him sorted. I want to give this vet a chance to try what she knows before I just go “Ew, no.” and be the brat that asks for help but won’t accept what’s given as help. That and because she wants to start working him toward raw asap. Who knows. We’ll see where it goes.
Not sure I’m gonna be able to deal with the puppy eyes when he doesn’t get to have his dried trachea…or bully sticks… or duck feeties…. o.o Haha!
Ahh, got it.
Hdm, I just did a google search for bloodhound owners forum and found quite a few forums dedicated to bloodhounds. Not sure what I’d be looking for, but it looks like there’s some out there.
Karen Pryor is a good resource, so is Susan Garret. Not sure if they have forums, but hdm is right in that most all breeds have forums who may be better help.
Not sure if anyone else is looking into probiotics right now, but Swanson’s has Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS buy one get one right now!
Thank you again! (Thanks to you too, Patty!)
Thank you so, so much for all your help with my little guy! I’ll definitely look into those probiotics! On the 15 strand +FOS one, what’s FOS?
I’m going to see how early I can get him into a different vet and get him completely checked out. (I’ll let you know how it goes!)
If I (and Dominic) could give you giant hugs and send yummy goodies to your guys, we so would! Thank you again, you’ve been amazing.
Thank you so much! 🙂 I did forget to mention that he is indeed on probiotics. (Fortiflora, got it from the vet.)
So when he was still eating half bland and half kibble, his meals were:half bland, half kibble, his dose of antibiotics, probiotics, and a small amount of pumpkin to try and firm him up.
I think tomorrow we’re going to go to a different vet and get him a good once over (and a giardia test) to see what. hey have to say. I’ve been wholly unimpressed with my vet through all of this.
Thank you so much again for all of your help! I’ve been so lost with all of this that it’s so nice to have someone so well informed to talk to.
If the second vet does suggest a good change, would you think that the zignature lamb would be OK until I can research raw properly? Or would you go with something else?
(Typing this on mobile, so I apologize if there is anything that doesn’t look quite right!)
Should note he’s 4.5 months now, this whole fiasco has been going on for the better half of a month.
Finishing up the tylen powder antibiotic today after 10 days of being on it, he started it when he got his full dose of wormer.
Also have a little guy with possible sensitivities? Needing some advice here, because I’m at a complete loss.
The whole timeline: 8 weeks, brought Dom home, had him on TOTW Puppy, which he stopped eating. We then switched to NV Rabbit, which he liked but got a smidge bored with, so I started adding different canned toppers. This whole time, his stools were normal and he was doing great.
After the small back of NV Rabbit, we switched to NV LID Turkey, which he did fine with for 2 weeks. After 2 weeks, though, he started getting diarrhea. In those 2 weeks, though, he also went swimming (and drinking) in a lake. He also go to play with his sister who, while she didn’t have fleas biting her, she had fleas on her (owner was in process of getting rid of them, I didn’t know this till later.). With how they were rough housing, I’m sure Dom ate a few fleas along the way.
So he has this diarrhea, and it’s not really going away. His stools softened then loosened. Took him to the vet and she gave him metronidazole (his stools were just soft, no mucus or blood) which did nothing for him. I took out the canned toppers, which also did nothing. I talked to a vet friend, and we talked about a few different things, including getting him on a bland diet to help sort him out. I went out to clean up the dog yard before this, though, and found a rice-sized white …thing? In his stool. Talked to the vet friend again, she said it was tapeworm. We ran into the vet, got Droncit and tylen powder (wormer and antibiotic.) So he was on a bland diet, took the dewormer. Had a solid stool full of odd white stuff (shed worms), Kept him on bland for a week with the antibiotics, and he did great. As soon as I started slowly mixing the NV LID Turkey back in, though, his stools got soft again. He also, though, went swimming in a different lake and probably drank some of that water, too. So I kept with the half and half (bland and kibble) to make sure it wasn’t the lake water upsetting his tummy. It wasn’t, so I went to find different food for him.
The gal I talked to at the local food store is suggesting Zignatture LI Lanb for him, but it’s not on the list of approved foods. What, in your opinion, should I do now? He’s currently back to bland, which I’m really not fond of because he’s not getting the nutrients he needs. This morning’s stool was firm, but slightly orange, and had two odd white things in it. Not sure what they were.
Should I take him to a different vet to get him a full work up, switch foods (and what to?), or…? This is my first time as an adult having a pup, and I’m really just lost now, because nothing seems to be working. I want to make sure and get him the best nutrition I possibly can.
Another friend and I spoke about just taking him full raw which, at this point, if it’s going to work for him, I’m not opposed to doing it but have no idea where to start and how to balance it for him.
Thanks for listening, all, and for any help or advice you have.
You rock so much!! Thanks for all the hard work, I know my little guy and I definitely appreciate it!
Also, h&g’s is a 5 star food according to Dr. Mike. 🙂
I know hound and gatos makes a decent canned food, 98% meat. My guy loves the stuff!
Your best bet would be to read over this thread first and see the suggested Cal/phos levels for large breed pups, then contact the companies to find out the MAX calcium and phosphorus levels and go from there. Like Patty and HDM said, it’s great to find a few foods that work and rotate between them. I personally haven’t seen the numbers for either food, so I’m not much help there. :/
Awesome! (Look at that little face!! Love it!)
He got to try some (dried) when we went on vacation and LOVED it, but I was so worried to give him a larger size in fear of screwing up his joints. He’s gonna be so excited tonight when he gets to have some yummy trachea again!
Wow! Thank you! I had always grown up hearing that the large breed pups shouldn’t get it supplemented by food till they were well and grown. I really appreciate the information. In that same vein, do you think dried trachea is a good treat for my little guy? I was holding off on it because I didn’t want to get him too much glucosamine.
Newfs – I’m not so good with picking foods, I know my guy is on Nature’s Variety Instinct rabbit/LID Turkey and is doing great. I’ve heard good things about the Fromm Gold.
I do know, though, that you need to avoid puppy foods that have glucosamine in them. You don’t want to supplement puppies with glucosamine, as it can hinder natural joint growth.
Hey Sbrooker, My guy is on the rabbit too (3.5 moz pup), we rotate that and the LID Turkey (with some canned here and there to keep it interesting). To introduce probiotics into his diet, I started giving him a small amount of regular plain yogurt with meals(not vanilla, not light or low fat, and made sure that the label notes that live cultures are used.). The other people on this thread likely have much better suggestions, but this was just my experience. It’s helped my guy digest a lot better. Also, yogurt with a 3.5 month old pup.is pretty hilarious to watch. Haha!
That’s awesome. 🙂 I’ll have to look into wholesalers around my area.
How do you make sure with raw that you’re giving a puppy everything they need in a balanced way?
That would be my main concern were I to go full raw with him.
Hey K9, So sorry to hear about your loss, but congrats on your new pup!
The thread PugMom suggested is a GREAT one, and helped me figure out what to feed my Presa Canario pup (mastiff).
What you’ll find in the thread is that the protein content for large breeds is not nearly as important as the calcium and phosphorous levels. Hound Dog Mom put together a great list of 4 and 5 star grain free foods for large breed pups.
Day 3 on mixing in some canned food and he is LOVING it. 🙂 I’ve never seen the boy eat so voraciously!
We’re doing NV Instinct Rabbit Kibble right now, going to get a bag of the LID Turkey when he runs out of this. Then I’ve got a few different varieties of canned that I just add a decent size tablespoon of to his kibble and mix it in. Right now I’m just using NV Instinct cans until I get Cal/Phos numbers back from Hound and Gatos. At which point, we may try mixing in some of those as well. I’m rotating the canned recipes every meal to keep him interested (So far, so good!).
(Side note: Apparently in Sept 2013 H&G’s is releasing a line of grain-free kibbles, so I’m interested to see what those will be about!)
I talked to a friend about going partial raw/full raw and she said it’s not quite as expensive as I’d think, so we’re looking into that as well.
Thanks again for your help! I don’t think I would be near as confident with our food choices had I not found this thread and all the great help you have given!
you rock!! Thank you so much for all of your help.
I was going to run out tonight and get some cans as well as a different recipe of food. It’s hard finding kibble I feel comfortable feeding him, and I unfortunately don’t think I’ve got the budget to go raw. Bah.
I know! That’s why I wasn’t expecting him to actually eat it! Typically he just sort of gnaws on it and a few shavings come off here and there. I looked up from my book to find antler chips and tiny bits of marrow all over the footer of my bed and he was just happily chewing away! He’s a great chewer with his food and treats, so i wasn’t worried about that, but I just was like “whoaaa calcium buddy” and just gave him something else to chew on.
Thanks so much for the great info. I think we’ll hold off on antlers for now.
I’m trying to find a food that he’ll eat. He was on TOTW and slowly just stopped eating it.
A friend noted that he’ll eat when he’s hungry, so I left him with his food while I was at work, and in a day and a half he had only eaten 1/4 c of food, even with coaxing. He’d eat anything else I gave him, had no change in stool, and wasn’t vomiting, just wouldn’t eat. So I got a few different sample bags to switch him over, so he picked out all the new food (NV Instinct – Rabbit) and left all the TOTW in the bowl. He was OBSESSED with the NV for about a day, now he’s doing the same thing he did with the TOTW. Any help or ideas?
His activity level is the same, he’s drinking lots of water, his stools are normal with nothing odd in them, he’s pottying fine, he’s not vomiting, his ears are clear and his eyes are a little gunky (have been since I got him), but it’s just regular eye boogies, no off color discharge. He’s growing quickly and I’m just getting concerned as I want to get him all the calories and nutrition he needs.
EDIT: we went to the vet on Monday for puppy checkup (he was still eating regularly so I didn’t think to note it, just thought he didn’t like the TOTW) and his fecal came back just fine, as did his physical.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by EHubbman.
Another question – my little guy is 3 months old and loves to chew on shed antlers here and there. We were laying around last night and instead of just chewing on his antler (not breaking pieces off) like he typically does, I looked up and he had eaten about a 1 inch section of it. Antler, marrow, and all.
In regards to calcium content, should I hold off on letting him have antlers until after he’s fully grown since he now wants to eat them? (he’s a spanish mastiff).
- This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by EHubbman.
Thank you so much, HDM! Great info. 🙂
He’s on TOTW puppy currently but not liking it, so I think I’ll be switching him to Fromm 4 Star soon. 🙂
What are your thoughts RE Phosphorus x Calcium Levels (as phosphorous is used in Calcium absorption, right?)?
I was looking into foods for my Presa (spanish mastiff, essentially), and a good friend (some vet training, very into the raw diet) noted that while protein isn’t so much of a concern aside from the fact that too much might cause loose stools, said that the Cal/Phos Ratio is what was really important. From my lookings, it seems like 1:1.2-1.4 Cal/Phos is what people aim for in larger breeds.