[CircaRigel]

Anonymously,
I have to wonder about your source for that info on joint disorders being no different in dogs neutered and spayed early. I do not see any peer reviewed scientific articles associated with those findings. The UC Davis study is very extensive and very thorough, and has clearly shown that the younger a dog is sterilized, particularly German Shepherds and Golden Retrievers (which likely is replicated in most large and giant breeds), the greater the incidence of hip and elbow dysplasia, along with ligament disorders. This risk declines after 1 year old, but continues to remain increased through life, although the greatest decrease in neutered dogs is after the epiphyseal plates (growth plates) have fully fused… and it is for this reason that many breeders of large dogs ARE requiring clients to wait until the dog is at least 18 months old before any spaying or neutering (which includes my own contract). Given the close relationship of the Shiloh Shepherd to the German Shepherd, I have paid very careful attention to all of these studies in making my choices…. in particular because I DO need a structurally sound dog to help me in the form of mobility support as a service dog. I also chose the Shiloh (and his breeder) due to the fact that there are extensive records of PennHip and OFA tests going back 13 generations, with only those with the most excellent scores being permitted to breed.

Again, it is a personal choice, but given how debilitating the dysplasias are, I feel it better to wait. Galen will still be neutered, with the associated increased life span, but it won’t be done pediatrically. In addition, while mammary tumors are more common in un-spayed females, many other cancers are actually LESS prevalent among intact dogs. The leading causes of premature death for unneutered dogs involve accidents, often the result of roaming. Galen has no tendency toward roaming and has a perfect recall, so that is not a concern of mine.

I also have worked as a vet tech and seen the various pros and cons in the veterinary practice, but rather than having that influence my decision, I based my choice on the current research, my particular dog, and my particular circumstances. It may be fine to neuter smaller dogs earlier, for their joints have far less weight bearing, and those dogs tend to reach adult maturity sooner, with closed growth plates.

[CircaRigel]

Acrolayli,
Not all breeders are like that. I went through a breeder because with a service dog, I wanted the best possible chance for success. I selected my breed and breeder VERY carefully. The breeder I chose really makes zero profit off her dogs. Everything she earns from the dogs goes straight into her dogs. All of her breeding stock have had full genetic testing. There are PennHip results going 13 generations back showing excellent results for all of them. All of her dogs undergo full temperament and physical testing, and extensive prenatal care. Every potential breeder is given a 24h heart monitor to rule out a genetic arrhythmia, and she even takes a 2 month leave from her job as a cardiac nurse in order to give the puppies her full attention 24/7 during their early growth stage until they are transferred to their prospective owners. I chose her due to my research, but I feel truly blessed to have found such a responsible breeder. Due to the extensive care in the health of both breeding dogs and puppies, I’ve been given a much higher chance of having a healthy dog who will be able to fulfill all of the service dog tasks I require over many years. I’ve not been disappointed at all. All of Galen’s vets are impressed with his physical conformation, his health, and his temperament. HE is a willing learner, and eager to help. In all, he is EXACTLY what I needed, especially as a first time service dog owner/trainer (although I do have some assistance from a professional organization). She even consulted with the trainers at the organization when having the puppies tested, to ensure I received the one most suited to my specific needs. Here’s a video of him the other week, demonstrating his retrieval skills… although he got rather enthusiastic and went on to bring me his bag of boots as well! Galen the Goofy Shiloh Shepherd Service Dog (in training) Demonstrates Vest Retrieval

It’s one of the more recent skills he’s truly mastered. Bear in mind, he IS still a puppy… an adolescent.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by CircaRigel.

[CircaRigel]

Anonymously,
While that may be so for smaller dogs, with large and giant breeds it is now recommended to wait until at least 18 months-2 years of age to ensure the growth plates have fully fused. If you looked at the research, all dogs neutered prior to a year old had significant increases in hip and elbow dysplasia, and it was still increased although to a lesser extent, in dogs neutered below 2 years of age. I might have done it at 18 months for Galen, but since he’s small for a Shiloh Shepherd and still is showing some signs of gaining in height, I’ve chosen to wait an extra 6 months until after he’s 2. At the same time, I’ll be getting him preventative gastropexy to prevent GDV (Gastric Dilation volvulus, a condition commonly known as bloat and quite deadly), to ensure his risk is significantly lowered for that. Fortunately his VPI/Nationwide insurance now has a plan that covers preventative gastropexy, the only plan I know of that actually does cover it! The biggest key, though, is closure of the epiphyseal plates (growth plates).

[CircaRigel]

As I stated, it is a matter of weighing benefits vs. risks as to whether to neuter your dogs early on not. In large and giant breeds, though, there is a SIGNIFICANT increase in problems with joint issues in dogs neutered young, before their growth plates fuse. https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/early-neutering-poses-health-risks-german-shepherd-dogs-study-finds/ Galen has showed ZERO adverse behaviors being intact, even in boarding or daycare. Given that he is training as a service dog, and one for mobility support at that, I CANNOT have the increased risk for hip or elbow dysplasia. Moreover, my contract with his breeder clearly states not to neuter early. In my particular case the benefits of waiting outweigh any risks. And while there will always be outliers, research has shown that in cryptorchid dogs, the risk for testicular cancer does not increase until after age 3. Also, these risks may be a bit different for small dogs, (which was the dog mentioned by “anonymously”), given that they tend to mature at a younger age. We are specifically talking about large breeds here, ones prone to bone growth disorders and joint problems.

[CircaRigel]

I know this is a little off topic, but I would like to posit another important factor involving proper bone and joint development in large breed dogs, and I’ll post links to the research. This involves early spaying/neutering. Research involving Golden Retrievers and German Shepherds has revealed that early spay/neuter results in SIGNIFICANT increase in joint disorders. This is something that likely applies to most, if not all large and giant breed dogs. The largest increase in these issues occurs in dogs neutered before 1-year-old, although any sterilization prior to full size does increase the incidence of hip and elbow dysplasia. Many breeders are now recommending (and some, like my Shiloh Shepherd’s breeder, require it in their contract) that dogs not be sterilized before 18 months of age. Link: Early Neutering Poses Health Risks for German Shepherd Dogs, Study Finds. This study also mentions the Golden Retriever study.

There are also additional reasons to avoid early neutering, but I won’t go into those in depth. There are some benefits to it as well, and I will never admonish a person for sterilizing their dog. It’s simply a choice that involves weighing the benefits and risks regarding the specific dog and situation… and whether there is a choice at all, given that rescues are generally neutered prior to adoption. Spaying and Neutering: New Warnings About Health Problems

In my choice, I have carefully weighed the risks and benefits in relation to my particular dog and my specific circumstances. Given that my young Shiloh Shepherd is training as a service dog, and especially because many of his tasks are mobility related, I have chosen to neuter him later, after he turns 2. I would have delayed neutering him even longer, except he has cryptorchidism (undescended testicle), which significantly increases the risk for testicular cancer if not neutered before 3 years of age.

[CircaRigel]

No. The dry food is very different from the canned version with regard to the ingredient profile, and even the canned is meant as a supplement, not as the dog’s full diet. Regardless of what the dry ingredients are, you MUST make sure that the mean calcium/Phosphorus ratio is approximately 1:1, and that it contains a maximum of 1.5% calcium. Most manufacturers list the minimum amounts, so you may have to contact Petkind directly to get the mean and/or maximum levels each variety contains.

[CircaRigel]

Triet S,
Raw dehydrated is usually actually freeze-dried, which maintains all of the nutrients of raw, but in a convenient, dry form that keeps a lot better. Raw frozen is exactly that. It contains all of the natural moisture of the original composition, and is kept frozen to keep it from spoiling. One of the disadvantages here is that it’s generally recommended to thaw it before feeding, and you don’t want to do that in the microwave, as that will cook it a little and alter some of the proteins. I usually thaw a couple of days worth of Galen’s Darwin’s Natural Selections in the refrigerator at least 24 hours prior to feeding. His freeze dried treats require no refrigeration or freezing to maintain their quality, so the’re easier to carry as treats. As for freeze dried that is meant as a staple food, like Primal freeze dried nuggets, it is recommended to add water to rehydrate it for a specified time prior to feeding.

[CircaRigel]

It’s been a while, and I thought I’d provide an update on Galen, now 19 months old, technically an adolescent for a giant breed (Shiloh Shepherd), but no longer a puppy. However, I did go through a number of adjustments to his diet as he grew up, and thought I’d discuss them. I’ll first discuss kibbles, since that is generally the area where improper calcium and phosphorus content causes problems. Brands discussed include Eukanuba, Holistic Select (and other WellPet brands), Canidae, Taste of the Wild, Fromms, Tripett, and my absolute favorite and the most impressive, nutritionally… Darwin’s Natural Selections. I will also briefly touch on treats. Every choice I’ve made for Galen has come about via extensive research, wanting only the very best for Galen’s growth and health, for he is training as my service dog. My first responsibility is to him, even before looking after myself, for it is his responsibility to always be looking after me. Besides… I consider him family on equal par to my most beloved family members. I have linked the Dog Food Advisor pages for Galen’s finalized diet at the bottom of this post.

Galen’s breeder weaned her litter on Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy diet. After his adoption, I transitioned him to Fromm’s, which is what his breeder now weans her puppies on, but his stools were often quite soft. There was a brief period when I tried Holistic Select Large breed puppy, but rapidly transitioned away from it when Galen became ill. As it happens, ALL kibble foods made by WellPet (Wellness, Holistic Select, Old Mother Hubbard, Eagle Pack) contain green tea extract. While the very small amounts are probably not harmful to most dogs, particularly since it’s being taken with food, I found a number of studies that were halted because of dogs dying after being given green tea extract on an empty stomach. There is no way I can know for certain, but I suspect Galen is somehow particularly susceptible to toxic effects from it, even in small doses. So I began researching foods, and I liked the nutrition profile for some of the Canidae varieties, and while they were not specifically puppy or large breed diets, I contacted Canidae to make sure I chose a variety with the proper calcium and phosphorus ratios for proper bone growth (Canidae has recently been shifting their manufacturing away from Diamond pet foods, with a new processing plant in California). He did well on this, but didn’t like it much. Since he’s rather thin (but not so much as to be unhealthy, according to his vets at Alameda East, the same hospital where Animal Planet’s “Emergency Vets” was filmed, as it’s closest to where I live), I decided to change things up again when he was about a year old. Since he now was at an age where his calcium metabolism was properly established (generally puppies older than 8 months old can properly metabolize calcium, without the need to limit it so much), it broadened the choices of available foods for him. So, I made a list of grain free foods on Dog Food Advisor with 4+ ratings, focusing especially on 5 star rated foods, and ordered a bunch of sample packs for him to try from K9Cuisine. Of all of the foods he tried, he preferred the 5 star rated varieties of Taste of the Wild best. While I’m not fond of the record of Diamond pet foods, I trust the ratings of Dog Food Advisor (except the high ratings of kibbles by WellPet brands, for the previously mentioned Green Tea toxicity risk). Anyway, to keep things interesting for his palate, I now transition between the three 5 star rated varieties of TOTW for dry food.

Canned foods: From very early on, I had Galen eating Tripett green beef tripe as his wet food. I chose this because green tripe contains the nutrients of what the cow ate as well as the nutritional value and digestive enzymes that are naturally inherent to tripe. I have tried other varieties of canned foods, but Galen usually turns his nose up at them after a few days, when the novelty wears off. There has been a single exception, though, which I also supplement his diet with. That is Darwin’s Natural Selections raw foods. Back when I was letting Galen choose from among the samples I got for him, I also got the $15 introductory sample of the Darwin’s food (10 lbs variety pack), which included free shipping on dry ice. Their foods are raw, made from free-range, organic animal sources and organic vegetables. They come in easy to open plastic packets. Dog Food Advisor not only rates it 5 stars, but enthusiastically recommends the foods. They have never had a recall. I was quite surprised to find that the food was packaged and frozen just a few days before it shipped to me. Now, Once you have had the trial and go to their subscription plan, the cost is far higher, plus shipping on dry ice. It’s too high for me to feed to Galen exclusively or even as half his diet, so I subscribe to it as a supplement to his regular diet, feeding him 2 lbs a week. I get him all varieties, which include chicken, turkey, duck, beef, and bison. Of all of the foods I’ve ever fed a dog, This has been by far of the highest quality I’ve encountered.

Galen is incredibly picky even with treats, generally preferring single-ingredient, meat based treats. These have included Simply Lamb (freeze dried lamb), PureBites freeze dried chicken breast, PureBites freeze dried duck liver, and Primal freeze dried Nuggets (lamb), although the nuggets I use more as an occasional supplement rather than a treat. Galen turns his nose up at most other treats, even jerky treats. That’s fine by me. I rather like seeing only one ingredient listed, which leaves me zero doubts of there being anything in it that is unnecessary to his health (i.e. preservatives).

On a final note, around holidays I like to make a turkey stock from the leftovers and carcass (bones removed, of course, after cooking so that nutrients specific to the bones leach into the stock, like the marrow). That turkey stock is for Galen, as a special treat supplementing his food.

So… Galen’s final adult diet:
Taste of the Wild (wetlands, High Prairie, and Canyon varieties)
Tripett Green Beef Tripe
Darwin’s Natural Selections raw (beef, bison, chicken, turkey, and duck)

• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by CircaRigel.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by CircaRigel.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by CircaRigel.

[CircaRigel]

Roger,
So long as the adult food meets the calcium requirements for a large breed (~1% calcium/1% Phosphorus), your dog should do fine with the adult food. Recent research has determined that often, the extra calories of the large breed puppy foods are empty calories, and by including adult foods that meet the requirements in your search, you can expand to additional foods that use other protein sources than chicken.

[CircaRigel]

After they get their adult teeth in is when they can properly process calcium, so there will be some variation from dog to dog, but all pups should have their adult teeth by 8 months, hence it being the more general mark that’s spoken of. I began the transition to the foods I intended to feed as an adult at 6 months, but the transition wasn’t completed until last week, well into the 8 months mark. Galen had all of his adult teeth in before I started. It was a very gradual transition so that his system would experience zero issues. Initially, the adult diet I chose was less than 1/8 of what he had been on as a puppy.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 8 months ago by CircaRigel.

[CircaRigel]

That list is old, but as I said just a couple of posts ago, a consensus among a number of giant breed breeders and their research is that puppy foods, indeed, are not necessary, provided you have the proper calcium/phosphorus levels. ANd I did not begin to switch to the Canidae Grain Free Pure Sea adult food until my pup had reached 6 months old, an age where they can adequately process calcium and phosphorus to not require the lower levels, but until then, yes, the large breed canidae does indeed have those very low levels that are recommended. I was very careful from the beginning.

[CircaRigel]

Yes, Fromm is good as well. Galen was on that for a time, too, actually a combination of that and the Canidae. The Grain Free Pure Sea is made at theCanidae plant, not Diamond. The Canidae Large breed puppy I got is also manufactured at Canidae’s plant. I don’t touch things manufactured at Diamond either, and was glad to see Canidae begin to split from them with their better lines of food. The life stages large breed puppy is 4 stars on Dog food Advisor. Grain free Pure Sea is five stars. But I was indeed feeding a combination of the Fromm gold and Canidae, before switching to the Grain Free Pure Sea, which he’s on now, and doing well.

But the Fromm is excellent, too. I tended to need to have a mix, as Galen has always been a very picky eater, which isn’t uncommon for shepherds.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by CircaRigel.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by CircaRigel.

[CircaRigel]

Carolyn,
Congratulations on your puppy! I’ve not known a Golden Mountain Doodle, but having known some Bernese Mountain Dogs, a Newfiedoodle, and a number of golden and labradoodles, and based on my experiences with them, I think you’re in for a wonderful experience!

I would hesitate to feed Wellness right now (or Eagle Pack, Holistic Select, or Old Mother Hubbard). All of the kibbles made by Wellpet right now contain green tea extract, which a number of studies has shown can cause liver toxicity in dogs. While the amount in the foods is probably not enough to have much of a toxic effect, those studies were on grown dogs, and puppies may react differently. Prior to my discovering this, I had tried to make a slow transition to Wellness for my own puppy, and he developed diarrhea immediately, even though he only had a couple of tablespoons of the food with his first meal. I had thought it perhaps just a simple sensitivity, until I looked at other Vine reviews of it on Amazon (I occasionally review things on Amazon in their Vine program- the items are random, and from time to time they offer a quality dog food I wish to try Galen on). Approximately 10% of the dogs that tested it on Vine became ill, in two cases, extremely ill. After I did some checking, I found the research showing the toxicity (several studies were stopped early because of it), and also discovered that all of the WellPet foods have green tea extract.

I immediately switched Galen to Canidae Large and Giant breed puppy at that time (which I chose on my own, based on ingredients, calcium/phosphorus levels, and the inclusion of probiotics et. al- not something I was sent for review purposes). He also gets Tripett green beef tripe (which naturally contains digestive enzymes, which are beneficial to digestion and nutrient absorption). For treats, he gets Sojos freeze dried raw lamb and Natural Balance Potato and Kangaroo Limited Ingredient dog food (another thing I was sent a sample of, but is too expensive for me to actually use as his primary food). I also give him an occasional raw beef soup bone.

Now that he’s 8 months old, I’ve transitioned him to Canidae Grain Free Pure Sea, which also has the highest ratings on Dog Food Advisor. At this age, they can properly metabolize calcium, so it’s not as imperative to keep levels so low. There has also been some recent research among giant breed breeders and vets that suggests they may also do better being weaned directly to an adult food- but one that meets the calcium/phosphorus recommendations for large and giant breed puppies. They say that the extra calories in the puppy foods tend to be empty calories, and that the adult foods may have greater nutritional benefit, ounce for ounce.

Hope this helps!
Belinda

[CircaRigel]

Mostly a lot of blood and fluid, and he was vomiting as well, and obviously pain. While his bloodwork showed no anomalies when we got to the vet, he deteriorated later and had to have a plasma transfusion and a painful infusion if IV potassium (agonizingly painful… I’ve had to have IV potassium before and know) in addition to the massive fluid requirements to keep up with his losses. After 24 hours in ICU, though, he was well enough to go home, and as of today, you wouldn’t even believe he was at death’s door on Tuesday. Totally back to normal. Doubt I will be for some time, though. That was frightening!

• This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by CircaRigel.

[CircaRigel]

That should be fine, as the body at that point will only use the calcium it needs. It’s early on, during the rapid growth phase, you need to watch the calcium levels and keep it controlled, for it’s not a race to reach the end-point… genetics will dictate that, and growing too fast during that phase can cause structural problems. By 11 months, that’s not as much of a worry, so any high quality adult food should be fine.

[CircaRigel]

I’ve been informed of some recent studies that suggest that large and especially giant breed pups may do best if they’re weaned to a low calcium/phosphorus adult dog food at 8 weeks old, simply because the extra calories the puppy foods tend to be empty calories rather than nutrition, and any excess weight in a large/giant pup can lead to Pano. It’s better they get the nutrition over the risk of too many calories- especially empty calories. Definitely by 11 months old your pup should be fine on an adult diet, as growth has slowed and isn’t as rapid as the first 8 months.

[CircaRigel]

Has anyone else experienced hemorrhagic gastroenteritis in their giant breed dog? My 7-month-old Shiloh Shepherd puppy, Galen, just had a 24h stay in ICU after developing the condition. Fortunately, he was seen immediately, for as a service dog in training he is always with me, so there was no delay in observing the symptoms. Plus the vet we go to, Alameda East Veterinary hospital (you might recognize them from “Emergency Vets” has a 24h ER, fully staffed 24h ICU, and can do all diagnostics in-house using the latest tech… so his diagnosis was extremely rapid. He still ended up requiring a plasma transfusion, and a fair bit more than the high estimate for his care addressed, but his recovery is coming along nicely. After that 24h in the ICU, he was able to come home.

What I wanted to see if anyone had any dietary recommendations about this, for when he’s able to resume his normal diet in a couple of days. He currently gets Canidae Grain Free Pure Sea kibble and Tripett canned food (Green Beef Tripe, Tripe and Venison, and Duck, Salmon & Tripe varieties). I also have pre and probiotics I can give him- increasing the dosage at the moment as he’s still on antibiotics (oral starting tomorrow, as he had IV until this afternoon). His Canidae also contains probiotics, and Tripett contains digestive enzymes.

He has every reason to NOT have developed this, as he’s not hyperactive, not a small or toy breed, eats top notch foods that are formulated with everything recommended for healthy digestion, etc… yet he still got it (I suspect it may be from either the goose poop he attempted to eat at the park Saturday, or the swim in a lake he took last week, but the cause of hemorrhagic Gastroenteritis (HGE) remains largely unknown).

At the moment, I’m nervous about anything that could effect Galen’s health. It’s pretty terrifying to see blood squirting out of my furbaby’s rectum as a purple jet. His vet highly approves of the diet I have Galen on, but I still would like to know what other’s think, and if anyone else has experienced this in a giant breed puppy that’s NOT hyper or overly stressed.

[CircaRigel]

Agreed. A lot of those Petsworld foods and treats are definitely not premium and have alot of fillers your dog doesn’t need. As for Holistic Select, while mostly premium, it contains green tea extract… Wellness, Eagle Pack, Old Mother Hubbard, and Holistic Select all began putting it in all of their foods recently… but there’s a problem. I found a fair bit of research on PubMed that shows it to cause liver toxicity in dogs. Granted, the doses are higher and its worse if given in a fasting state, which wouldn’t be the case in food products, but I still wouldn’t want to risk my dog by touching the stuff.

Galen, my 6-month-old Shiloh is now on Canidae Grain Free Pure Sea for kibble, and Trippett (Green Beef Tripe, Tripe & Venison, & Duck Salmon & Tripe) for his canned food. I decided to follow the recent research that suggests giant breed pups may do best on an adult diet that has the low calcium and phosphorus, as it doesn’t have a lot of extra empty calories. I chose the Pure Sea formula because it has few key ingredients, the first 3 are meat and meat meals (fresh smoked salmon, salmon meal, menhaden fish meal), and is absolutely LOADED with Omega 3’s (brain food and excellent for the immune system, plus anti-inflammatory… perfect for a service dog in training like Galen, or a service dog). It also has the highest rating from Dog food Advisor, and includes probiotics and even some enzymes, like cellulase, which increases the bioavailability of polysaccharides as an energy source. The tripe in Trippett also contains digestive enzymes, which again is beneficial for digestion and increasing the bioavailability of nutrients.

Everything I feed Galen is for a reason. Even his treats, which are Sojo’s Simply Lamb… Only one ingredient- raw lamb, conveniently freeze dried.

[CircaRigel]

As far as I’ve been told and heard, including from my best friend, who’s a veterinarian, is that the only treatments for Pano are anti-inflammatories and time, and perhaps weight loss, if the pup is at all overweight for his/her frame.

[CircaRigel]

Given that Eagle Pack, Wellness, Holistic Select, and Old Mother Hubbard (all made by WellPet) recently started putting Green Tea Extract in all of their foods, which causes liver toxicity in dogs, I’d stay away from it. I took Galen off of Holistic Select because of that, especially when he began getting sick. He’s had no issues since.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by CircaRigel.

[CircaRigel]

Ok, Just talked to my contact (Galen’s breeder), and at the seminar, the expert (who raises great danes) Pat Hastings states that the puppy foods are a bunch of empty calories, and does not advocate using them, especially with giant breeds. She advocates weaning directly to adult foods, provided those foods have the low calcium/phosphorus levels at approximately 1% and a 1:1 ratio, and supplementing with raw, if possible (Galen is supplemented with Tripett food… green beef tripe). I don’t have a list of foods yet, but Galen’s breeder will be sharing that as soon as it’s made available, so it’s up to the individual to make sure they have the adequate numbers. I’ll be calling Canidae today to find out what the Calcium and Phosphorus numbers are for each of the foods in Canidae’s Grain Free Pure line of foods. I reviewed some Grain Free Pure Land a while back, and was quite impressed, and like that there are only 7 key ingredients.

[CircaRigel]

Pitlove,
The protein theory HAS essentially been debunked. The best you can do for prevention of Pano is to keep your pup lean, and keep his growth slow and steady, with a low calcium/phosphorus diet. There has even been some recent argument that for large breed puppies, it may even be better to feed them an adult diet earlier, reducing the calories they’re getting as well as having a lower calcium/phosphorus content, but I’m awaiting word from a conference a friend is attending before stating that as fact.

[CircaRigel]

My Shiloh Shepherd is 6-months old. He recently switched to Fromm Gold and Canidae (both large breed puppy foods) for his kibble (and has been on Tripett for his canned food all along, as tripe is beneficial to digestion). I’ve gone over the suggestions of HDMom’s PDF, and most seem pretty valid even now. The main “premium” foods I’d shy away from at the moment are Wellness, Holistic Select, Old Mother Hubbard, and Eagle Pack. They recently began adding Green Tea Extract to all of their foods (they’re all made by WellPet), and I just don’t understand why, as a Pubmed search finds multiple research articles that show it causes liver toxicity in dogs. No way will I have Galen touch those foods.

[CircaRigel]

I need to find a new food for Galen. He’s a 6-month-old Shiloh Shepherd puppy, training to be a service dog. Wellness has recently begun putting Green Tea Extract in ALL of their foods. Galen’s begun developing diarrhea from it, and I looked it up, only to discover that green tea can cause liver damage in dogs!!! I need to switch him IMMEDIATELY! HE’s been on the holistic select lamb and oatmeal formula, which I only just discovered is made by Wellness, and now includes the toxic ingredient.

[CircaRigel]

Erin,
My Shiloh Shepherd is currently teething, losing his baby teeth. I find that he prefers bully rings over any rawhide and furniture, and many people say the same thing. You can generally find ones made in the USA, without corn, wheat, soy or preservatives at a reasonable price, and they’re fully digestible.

[CircaRigel]

Just because she runs a pet store doesn’t mean she’s an expert, and you’re right, the “guidelines” are generally for adult dogs, not growing puppies. Growing puppies need more frequent meals (3-4 a day). Provided your pups are good weights for their frames and not growing faster than is appropriate for the breed, I can’t see that you’re doing anything wrong. I mentioned my pup in my original reply as an example, and his current weight is right in the middle of the spread of all of his siblings… and the feeding guidelines I follow come directly from other breeders of Shiloh’s (breeders who have eliminated hip and elbow dysplasia from their lines, both genetic and growth related).

[CircaRigel]

Just as people with different activity levels have different nutritional requirements, the same is true for dogs. The amounts you mention actually seem quite reasonable for the dogs you listed, especially if they are as lean as you say, and are active. You might be going a bit high on the two puppies, but not by much.

Of course, how much you feed also is going to depend on the water content and calorie content of the foods. Calorie dense foods should be served in smaller portions than lower calorie ones, and wet foods tend to have fewer calories than dry, dependent on water content.

The amount you’re feeding the Cane Corso/Mastiff is similar to the amount I feed my Shiloh Shepherd puppy, but as Galen is training to be a service dog, he gets more exercise than many puppies (He was born 11/20 and is around 44 lbs). Anywhere I go, he goes too. He’s expected to be 115-125 lbs full grown.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by CircaRigel.

[CircaRigel]

I order Holistic Select Large and Giant puppy Lamb and Oatmeal formula from Amazon.com. I also get Tripett canned food, the beef tripe and the tripe & venison. The tripe contains digestive enzymes that are helpful to his digestion. The Holistic select has the low calcium and phosphorus needed to control growth at a healthy pace, and even contains probiotics to help digestion- especially as the digestive tract is still forming. The probiotics help prime his tract for healthy digestion and prevent colonization of harmful bacteria in Galen’s virgin digestive system.

So far, his health has been fantastic! His growth is EXACTLY where it should be, his coat is healthy (and he’s beginning to get his adult coat), and his stools are well formed, with no straining and nothing loose. For Galen, at least, this is a perfect combination of foods, and I purchase all of them on Amazon. By using the subscription service for the Tripett canned food, I even get a discount. Since I have 5 things on subscription, the discount is 15%. Under 5 items, the discount is 5%… and that’s in addition to any sale prices and coupons.

[CircaRigel]

My 10-week-old Shiloh Shepherd, Galen, is now on Holistic Select Large and Giant Breed Puppy Health Lamb and Oatmeal Recipe Dry Dog Food. He loves the food, and his stool consistency is great! His growth hasn’t been as fast as some of his siblings, but I see that as a good thing, for the vet says he’s a perfect weight for his frame and in great health. This looks to be taking excellent care of his joints. After all, when it comes to growth, it’s not a matter of how quickly one grows, and in large dogs it’s better that it be slow and steady (but he still grew 20% in 10 days- 20 to 24 lbs). The genes will dictate the final size.

It’s important that I look after Galen’s joints properly, for he’s training to be a service dog, to help with my PTSD and spine injuries. I was fortunate enough to find an organization that is quite happy to help train owner raised dogs, for after the Shiloh Shepherd I rescued 20 years ago (I didn’t even know he was a Shiloh at the time), I knew the breed has what is perfect for my needs.

[CircaRigel]

I’m getting a Shiloh Shepherd pup in about 10 days. The breeder recommends Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy because of its low calcium/phosphorus. I didn’t see that in the list, though. Is there a problem with Eukanuba?

• This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by CircaRigel.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by CircaRigel.

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