[Atlas T]

Alright, I’m going to throw another wrench in the works.
What might be the best bet in terms of relatively limited ingredients, but low on legumes and potatoes? I’m really concerned about the FDA warning around boutique foods and DCM so would like to find a combo that could work.

The Focus Sensitive Skin and Stomach is on my list, but anything else folks would recommend?
Thanks

[Atlas T]

Thanks to both of you for the additional suggestions.

The 4health foods seem like they could work but are concerning from the perspective of the FDA warning. They have grains, but they are also high in potato and legumes (and some say fish is a “novel protein” so to stay away. I feel like all the recommendations are contradicting!

Someone in another group suggested Pro Plan Select Adult Sensitive Skin and Stomach, which is salmon based and includes grains (with minimal legumes and potato to avoid DCM issues). It feels like maybe it’s worth trying, but it’s definitely not a LID. Also my impression is that it has prebiotics but not probiotics, is that right?

[Atlas T]

Thanks for the input.

Cockaliermom and Susan, I just accidentally came across Diamond Naturals Grain-Free Whitefish & Sweet Potato Formula Dry Dog Food and it seems like that one has lots of different strains of probiotics, do you think that would be a good one to try? It’s not a limited ingredient diet though…

Atlas does get some yogurt and kefir, and I’ll continue to do that.

As to “4Health”Sensitive stomach” – I haven’t tried that yet. Does that one have probiotics? I have some hesitation around the fact that the first ingredient is potatoes and not a protein, but can be convinced that that’s not an issue 🙂

With the recent news from the FDA, I’m also concerned about keeping him long term on a grain free, potato-based diet…that also makes me want to make the switch to something better.

The local pet store recommended I try Pulsar food….they say it’s branded as a limited ingredient diet, but has pretty limited ingredients. It does have lentils and peas though, as well as FOS…so I’m not sure if that would ultimately be good or bad for him. I wonder….if I just try feeding Atlas homemade legumes (peas, chickpeas, lentils, etc.) will that give me a good sense of whether he can tolerate them? Or is it such a different processing in kibble that it doesn’t really matter if he can tolerate them if cooked at home?

Thanks!

[Atlas T]

My pup is on Bravecto and I just recently reordered for the next 6 months. Ugh. Not sure what I can do at this point, but I’m pretty sure I can’t return, and it’s not cheap!

[Atlas T]

Thanks, all, for your recommendations of things to try.

Cockaliermom, thanks for remembering us and thinking about us 🙂 I looked at the American Journey ingredients list and don’t see FOS listed. Do they use a different name for them? Or, what should I look for on the labels of other foods to see if they have pre/probiotics? And what are those other brands that have FOS that aren’t AJ (preferably limited ingredient ones)? I’m also open to supplementing pre and probiotics if you think that may work better?

Thanks!

[Atlas T]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to jump back in to update folks. Great news from my end – Atlas’ tummy has been doing well over the last 1-2 months. He is still on the Natural Balance LID Fish and Sweet Potato. The pooping frequency has gone down from 7-8 times/day to just 3-4, and they are much smaller in size, which makes me think he’s absorbing more of his food. They are also typically uniform and a good consistency. I haven’t intentionally given him other treats, but since I work downtown, he is constantly picking up leftover food on the streets and/or folks (like UPS delivery men) are giving him treats before I can stop them. And believe it or not, even with new and different foods, his stool has stayed great. If things continue like this, I may try incorporating other types of treats and/or food in a few months. Thanks to everyone for your help!

[Atlas T]

Thanks, everyone! Will keep you posted.

[Atlas T]

Wow, lots of action on this thread! I wonder if we could start new threads with some of the topics here that are not really related to the original post (Atlas’ poo situation). More than anything, I’d like other folks to be able to find the info they need, without wading through this entire thread.

Vanessa, sorry to hear about your pup! Maybe you can start a new thread so that we can help you there and it doesn’t get buried as the 86th post on this thread 🙂 I’m also not sure the advice folks were giving my pup, Atlas, is necessarily the same advice they’d have for your dog.

Thanks!

[Atlas T]

Thanks, Susan, I’ll check out your resources.

Anon101, you know what they say about assumptions, right? Not sure why you would make that assumption considering the number of vets and traditional medicine my dog has, is, and will experience. I’m also pretty sure that discussing food sensitivities does not count as homeopathy, or do you not believe in that?

[Atlas T]

Thanks for the suggestions and general support and good vibes.

Atlas is doing great on the sweet potato and fish diet, still getting kefir twice a day as well. His poop is nice and solid and he is going about 4-5 time /day, compared to the 7-8 he was doing before. I’ve started giving him the duck and potato kibble as a treat and he is doing great with that. The only thing is that he thinks it tastes ok, but not good enough to be a real “treat” like to get his attention when he wants to chase a bird otherwise.

I may try what Susan said in awhile and buy some of the canned food and bake it or something. Little by little, hopefully he’ll get better.

I have some questions about other dog health topics that are unrelated to food and this thread. Are there any other forums you all use for that kind of stuff? I’d love your suggestions.

Thanks!

[Atlas T]

Jella – I appreciate the suggestion. I asked the vet about this for the same reasons you’re sharing. Her response was that based on how many foods I’ve tried with the same primary ingredients, she thinks that he is sensitive to something very low down on the ingredient list and therefore – something that we probably can’t test for. She doesn’t think he has sensitivities to any of the major things. So it seems like it would just be a waste of resources to do that.
——————————————
CockalierMom – ok, that makes sense about the chicken. So based on what you’re saying, it sounds like maybe we should keep those treats around (we got two huge bags!) and hope that once his tummy is better, he may be able to digest it (since he doesn’t seem to have a sensitivity to chicken itself). I am giving him kefir like you said! He’s getting 2tbsp morning and night. About the soluble fiber – how would I know how much a food has? Should I start adding more soluble fiber to his diet after his tummy stabilizes?

Thanks all!

[Atlas T]

That’s a good note, and I’m glad you said that. Interestingly, when we was having diarrhea, I saw that the chicken jerky treats were coming out whole. So we started soaking them. We soak the chicken jerky overnight and then feed it to him. I would think that with the soaking, they would be pretty much as digestible as the chicken made at home, no?

[Atlas T]

Thanks to both for the responses.

The NB LID treats are a possibility though they are the boring dry treats, which don’t really entice him. They unfortunately don’t have the moist training treats in a LID formula.

Another idea I had was maybe just plain cod skin….he seems to do ok with fish so perhaps it’s worth trying?

With the kefir, he definitely is not doing worse, but I’m not sure if he’s doing better either.

I loved your suggestions on the treats, like baking the loaf style ones or even making some from salmon and potato. I’m trying to use the NB LID puppy duck and potato for treats, but honestly he’s not super motivated by that kibble. I was also thinking maybe cod skin treats would be good because they are also single-ingredient. My issue though is that even if he is not sensitive to a certain protein, it seems like he may be sensitive to it if it’s prepared a certain way? I saw that because when I cook chicken for him at home, he is absolutely fine with it. However, when I buy him chicken jerky treats that have absolutely no other added ingredients, he gets soft poos. I find it so troubling!

Thanks, everyone!

[Atlas T]

Hi all,

Another vet appointment, another update. Nothing really new though. Vet says he clearly has food sensitivities, and that I shouldn’t worry so much about him being on the adult food. I should keep him on this food for several months in order for his gut to stabilize. That’s pretty much all the advice I got…

So, I’ll keep him on this food for some time (even if it breaks the bank) and then maybe I’ll try transitioning to another food. My biggest issue is with the treats. I need to train him on so many things, and yet all of the treats throw his stomach for a loop. Not sure what to do.

Thanks!

[Atlas T]

Thanks all for chiming in. My update is that we are on day 6 of just the Natural Balance sweet potato and fish, and his poo is excellent! I’m also giving him kefit as of 2 days ago, and so far so good. I don’t necessarily see any improvements as a result of it, but it’s not causing any issues either.

He has a vet appt next week with another vet, we’ll see how it goes. One thing I’m considering is trying the Natural Balance LID duck and potato diet because that one is made for puppies, which the fish and sweet potato is adult maintenance. Since he is still fairly young (8 mo), I figure it would be better to have him back on a puppy diet. Eventually (and hopefully not too far away), I’d like to switch him to a different food, hopefully something that is more cost effective.

[Atlas T]

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. It’s too much to respond to individually, but please know I read all of the posts and appreciate all of the insight. Susan, I did get a copy of your other post in my email, but I’m not sure why it didn’t know up in this thread.

I’ll give a quick update: Atlas is back on the Natural Balance LID food with a bit of potato and chicken mixed in. His poop is getting much better. If it continues like this for several more days, I’ll try adding in some kefir and then some veggies to see what he can/can’t handle.

I’ll keep you all updated!

[Atlas T]

Thanks, all, for chiming in and for your support and optimism.

As of yesterday, I put him back on the Sweet Potato and Fish LID food exclusively. Hopefully that will work well for him for the time being. I’ve also stopped the kefir for now. Once his poo is good for 3-5 days, I’ll start adding kefir in to see how he does. I only want to add one new thing at a time so as to understand what is causing him issues.

It sounds like most of you are suggesting that once his gut heals and gets more good bacteria, he should be able to process other foods. I’m just curious…what makes you think that later on he will be able to transition? Versus there just being things in the other foods that he is permanently sensitive to?

Bobby dog – how long did your pups have to be on the Rx diet before they could transition back to regular food?

And Joyce B – I just don’t think there is another food that has as few ingredients as that LID one and that is cheaper. If you have any suggestions though on how to find it, that’d be great.

And yes to everyone who mentioned getting more vet opinions – I will take him again next week.

My other challenge is that since he is young, we are trying to do lots of training. And to do training, you need to use VERY TASTY treats. And because of his tummy issues, I’ve had to just use the LID kibble as treats, but it’s not very enticing. I’m not sure what else to do!

[Atlas T]

That’s fine, we can agree to disagree, and I am not forcing YOU to get recommendations for YOUR dog on this forum. But I do want recommendations for my dog in this forum, and you are welcome to participate or not, whatever you prefer.

And I wouldn’t say I’ve tried their recommendations with poor results…trying the LID food has been working well.

[Atlas T]

Anon101, believe me that I am doing that too. However, the more information I can get the better. I read your post the first time, I expressed gratitude, but at this point the vet alone is not cutting it, and sometimes learning from the experience of other dog owners is just as helpful.

Thanks

[Atlas T]

Ugh, I’m feeling defeated this morning.
We are on day 8 of mixing in the Nature’s Domain Turkey and SP, and his poop this morning was very runny. Not quite diarrhea, but pretty close. Today I gave him .75 cups of that food mixed in with the LID food and potatoes/chicken.

I’m back to wondering the same thing as before: how do I know if he has a sensitivity to something in the food vs. this just being a symptom of his body adjusting. Basically, do I still with it, and maybe give him slightly less of the Nature’s Domain (he seemed to be relatively ok at .5 cups twice/day) or am I just wasting time and energy and making him miserable by continuing to force a food that he can’t tolerate? Advice appreciated, as before!

Thanks all and please send positive vibes. I’m getting so disheartened!

[Atlas T]

Thanks for all the input! I don’t think we Yakult here, or at least I have never seen it. Atlas did take foritflora for several weeks, but I don’t think it helped. Do you remember what the other probiotics were that they found to be effective?

As to him getting up and needing to go urgently in the night, that has only ever happened with rice (when I gave him the chicken/rice bland diet). Otherwise, even with the other foods it was never that severe. It was quite runny, maybe sort of like frozen yogurt consistency, but he didn’t have crazy urges at random times. So do you think that means he didn’t have a sensitivity?

He is still getting some chicken and potatoes, though not much. I’d say now 2/5 of his meal is chicken and potato, 2/5 is the LID salmon kibble, 1/5 is the new Nature’s Domain food. Today he pooped SEVEN times. In the morning it was quite hard and good, later in the day it got much softer, though never runny.

Ugh…finding it hard to feel optimistic, but if it can take up to a month for his tummy to adjust, I’m going to need to stay positive!

Thanks for all the help!

[Atlas T]

Wanted to share an update: we are now on day 5 of the Nature’s Domain transition. I am up to 2/3 cup twice a day + approx .5 cup that I feed as treats (in addition to 1.5 cups of the LID food and chicken and potatoes). His poo is definitely much softer. It’s still “formed,” but now coming out more like narrow “sausages” rather than bigger rounder “balls.” He is also still going about 5 times a day. How do I determine if this is ok and part of the transition or if he has a sensitivity to something in the food?

I started adding Kefir, but I’m reconsidering this. Considering the poo is softer, it’s hard to know if it’s the new food or maybe he is sensitive to dairy? Maybe I should only alter one thing at a time so I can pinpoint the issue.

Thanks!

[Atlas T]

CockalierMom – thanks, I’ll try what you said and go slower (and will keep folks updated here as well!). I haven’t tried the kefir yet, but will purchase some this weekend. Do you know how much kefir I should give? And if you are giving kefir before mealtime, how are you administering it? I would’ve thought to mix it with the food…

Thanks!
PS I’ve decided to forego the sentinel for now.

[Atlas T]

InkedMarie, thanks for the compliment!
Thanks, Susan. I guess I need to find a better vet. The one I just took him to last week just said “well, I guess you have to keep doing trial and error with different foods.” It didn’t sound like she knew the first thing about fibers or any of that.

As of yesterday, I’m putting a bit of the Nature’s Domain Turkey and Sweet Potato in Atlas’ food. His poo this morning was softer, but I’m crossing my fingers that it’s not related to the new food. Yesterday I put a quarter cup of the new food in his food in the morning and another quarter cup at night. This morning I gave him half a cup of the new food mixed in with the old. Does that seem like a gradual enough transition or am I pushing it too fast? And if his poo does get softer, should I just assume the food doesn’t work for him and take him off it, or should I keep him on it (without increasing the proportion) to see if his belly gets used to it?

Thanks!

[Atlas T]

Thanks, Susan!
Not sure if you saw my question a few posts above in regards to what knowing the digestion time will actually tell me? Basically, if I know how long he’s taking to digest food, how will that influence what I do for him?

Thanks!

[Atlas T]

Thanks! Yup, his name is Atlas. That Gravatar thing seems too complicated for right now, so I’ll just share a link: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Q50jedeAOcFPGKcp2

[Atlas T]

Cockalier mom – I will try the kefir! As to telling him to sit while he is eating, that’s a no go 🙂 He’s too excited about his food! On the other hand, if I pick up the bowl and tell him to sit, then he will.

—————
Anon101 – appreciate your input. We do put our hands in his bowl while he eats, and he really couldn’t care less, as long as we don’t try to touch his paws.

Unrelated question: I cannot for the life of me figure out how to edit my profile image. Any tips?

[Atlas T]

Thanks again for all the thoughts. CockalierMom – the kefir is a good idea. I’ve been giving him probiotics too, but I don’t know if they’re helping. I don’t know if the poo will ever get less frequent because he’s never pooped less than 5 times/day as far as I know. On the bright side, his poop has been consistently firm yesterday and today, so I’m crossing my fingers.

To answer Cockalier Mom’s question: “When you used to leave his food out, did you try to touch or pet him while he was eating?” Yup, we did and he was totally fine. But now that food is not constantly available, I think he’s a bit more possessive of it.

Susan – great tips, I’ll try the corn suggestion. The one thing that’s not clear to me – once I know how long it takes him to digest, what will that tell me? So if it’s 5 hours or 10 hours, what does that actually mean in terms of what I should do for him? What’s normal? Also, I hear you on lentils and chickpeas. What about peas and pea protein…is that usually just as problematic?

Kathy B – that’s exactly how he is now! We can take the tastiest bone out of his mouth, his favorite toy, take away his bowl, put our hands in his food and he doesn’t care. But if we touch him, especially the front paws, while he is eating, he growls a bit.

[Atlas T]

Yes, thank you for your input.

[Atlas T]

Thanks, anon. I appreciate your concern, though I feel a bit differently about the situation than you do.

[Atlas T]

Thanks again to everyone for all the info! I hear both of you on the reasons to choose the Salmon food (continuation of the current protein) or the Turkey food (the fish one might have more toxins). I’ll have to weigh the good and the bad and make some decisiosn. A few quick responses:

-Susan, on the bones – I have some raw beef bones that I gave him about 1.5 months ago. It sort of coincided with his belly issues, so I have some hesitation whether raw bones could have contributed. What are your thoughts? Do you think it’s ok to give raw bones to a 7mo old puppy with some tummy issues? Or should I wait until we’re totally in the clear? And in regards to Rodney Habib, I’ll check him out. As to the healthy treats/toppers, shall I wait to give him those until his tummy is more sorted? I wonder if raw carrots or things like that may do more harm than good at this point.

-CockalierMom, thanks for the recommendation of calculating calories. I took some time to do that yesterday, and seems like I’ve been feeding him exactly the right amount, maybe even a bit on the high side. Given all that, he still seems super hungry. Should I give him more food? He does get quite a bit of exercise. We are on day 5 of the LID food, and he is getting 2.5 cups of that per day, as well as 1.5lbs potato, and .5lbs chicken (more info below). Great point about the LID not being All Life Stages, I hadn’t considered that.

——————————————–
General updates:

We are on day 5 of the LID food, and he is getting 2.5 cups of that per day, as well as 1.5lbs potato, and .5lbs chicken (more info below). Maybe this week, I’ll start incorporating some of the Nature’s Domain into it and seeing if his poop continues to be ok. One thing to me that seems strange about his poop is that in the morning and early afternoon, he has great solid poop. Towards the end of the day, the poop gets much softer (though never to the point that I’d call diarrhea). I’m not totally sure what to attribute this to. Maybe he processes food more quickly during the day and it doesn’t get fully processed by the time he poops it out? Also, (sorry if this is TMI) when his poop starts coming out, it’s quite solid, but towards the end of the poo, it is much more soft. Also, he is pooping very frequently still, about 5-6 times per day. It’s not like he urgently needs to go, but we take him on lots of walks, and he always takes advantage of being outside to poop.

On a different note, we’ve run into another problem. Before, his food used to be out all day, but now that it’s perishable because I’m cooking it, he gets specific feeding times and amounts. He’s become a bit possessive of his food, which he’s never been before :-/ He allows us to touch and move his bowl without a problem, but he starts growling if we pet him while he’s eating, especially if we touch his paws or tummy. I am trying to combat this by doing some handfeeding so he understands the food comes from us, as well as holding his bowl while he eats and stroking him, even if he growls. I have zero fears about him actually biting, but I welcome more feedback on whether I’m addressing this correctly, and what else I should be doing to combat this behavior. He doesn’t do this with anything else…not bones, not his favorite toys, etc.

[Atlas T]

I am so grateful to everyone for taking the time to respond.

We are on day 3 of incorporating the LID sweet potato and fish into the potatoes and chicken and his poop looks amazing! Any suggestions on how long to keep him on this before trying to switch to nature’s domain turkey and sweet potato?

One other question: he is SO hungry all the time. Originally he was not a major eater, but I think because he loves the home cooked food so much, he wants to eat tons of it. I’m also a bit concerned because he hasn’t gained any weight in 4 weeks and he should still be growing at this age. I don’t know how to figure out how much food to give him. If I gave him all he wanted, I’m sure he’d eat and eat until he threw up. Any suggestions would be great.

[Atlas T]

Quick update before I respond to specific posts: As of yesterday morning, I stopped the Nature’s Balance Puppy Chicken and Pea, and started mixing 1 cup of a new food into his chicken and potatoes two times a day. It’s the Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Sweet Potato & Fish. So far his poop is staying nice and solid, so fingers crossed! The only reason I tried this food instead of what folks recommended is that I had a small bag of it sitting in the garage, so I figured it’s worth a shot before I buy other foods. However, I could not sustain giving him this food long term, it’s SO expensive! It also seems to comply with most of Susan’s recommendations – no garbanzos, lentils, etc., fairly low fiber and fat, etc.
————————————————————-
Susan,
Your info is so helpful, thanks so much. As you suggested, I will try the Nature Domain Turkey & Sweet Potato next, I think.
Please forgive me but I have a few more questions:
-you mention the 6 month mark, so does that mean that sometimes those sensitivities go away and in the future I may be able to feed him foods that he can’t currently have?
-I thought the metro was an antibiotic for bacterial infections, right? So why do you think it would help to put him back on that if it’s just a sensitivity? And should I do it regardless, or should I only do it if his poop goes back to really soft once I start incorporating the turkey kibble?
Thanks again for the help and thanks for all you do at the pound!!
_____________________________________________________
Cockalier Mom,
Thanks for chiming in as well! I hear you on the Instinct kibble, but if that was it, then I wonder why his poop would’ve gotten worse on a bland chicken and rice diet, and why when I started incorporating Nature’s Domain Puppy, it would’ve gotten worse?

Thanks for the tips on the flea stuff. Do you think Sentinel (Oral) would be better since it addresses fleas and heartworm? Or maybe do pet armour for fleas and an oral heartworm preventative?

Thanks again for everyone’s help!

[Atlas T]

Thanks, Anon101. It’s just tough because he’s already been seen by vets, and they haven’t had anything useful to say. Maybe we just haven’t found the right one….

[Atlas T]

Thanks to everyone who’s responded.
————————————————–
Susan, thanks for the in depth recommendations, really appreciate you taking the time to talk through all this.

Can you please explain to me why 4Health is the recommended way to go here? Is it because of the low fiber or what specifically makes it the best alternative? I ask more than anything because their sensitive stomach food is not cheap, and unfortunately there is no Tractor Supply store near me, so I wouldn’t be able to return it if it doesn’t sit well with him. I’m definitely willing to try, but I wonder if there are any other foods I could get locally that may be cheaper? Or is 4Health the only one that would fit my needs?

So interesting also with what you say about the rice being ok in the kibble but not just boiled…that’s good to know!

Lastly, it sounds like you are suggesting that my dog may have IBD. Do you think it’s worth going to the vet to confirm this and get a clear diagnosis, or should I just try to follow your guidelines and find a food that works for him?
———————————————-
Kathy, thanks for the encouragement!
———————————————–
Anon101 Unfortunately, as you probably saw from my post, it seems like my dog does really well with potatoes, but not with rice, so I think the Pro Plan is not an option.

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