[Sully’sMom]

I’m not sure if this is the right thread to ask my question, but I’ve always had lots of luck here (thank you HDM especially) so thought I’d try here first. Haven’t written is quite some time as Sully is now 2 yrs old and doing quite well. We got through the worst of his allergy problems, did some testing, dealt with the results and all in all – he’s great. However, for most of his 2 years he has had loose stool. I’ve mostly been doing a kibble rotation diet, always grain-free (because of his allergies), but the stool, although sometimes it’s worse (tried Zignature recently and stool was MUCH worse – too rich?) and sometimes its better, its never GOOD. My only go to knowledge would be to add canned pumpkin to his food. Any other good foods to try?

[Sully’sMom]

Hi Annie J,

How did you find out those results? My dog has struggled with allergic reactions for about a year; we did some blood draw allergy testing, but it only tested for environmental allergens, not food. I would love to know more.
In the meanwhile, check out Infinia foods…

[Sully’sMom]

Additionally Lablubber, each puppy is different! As Sharon said, all of the foods on the list are good foods, but one will work better for your puppy than mine and vice versa. Sully is now coming up to 2 (gasp), so we’re off the puppy foods, but I’ve fed him Fromm LBP, Earthborn varieties, Merrick, etc. Right now we’re rotating among Earthborn, Infinia, and NutriSource, bison, salmon and lamb varieties. All grain-free. Important for Sully because he is allergic to storage mites and they are less likely to occur with grain free.

And I concur, Chewy is great! And right behind them is PetFlow. I use both. Good luck!

[Sully’sMom]

Hi Typhoon,
I’m quoting from the November 2013 issue of Whole Dog Journal:

“…The optimum dose for dogs is about 1 teaspoon per 10 pounds of body weight daily, or 1 tablespoon per 30 pounds. These are general guidelines, as some dogs need less and others more.
But don’t start with these amounts. Instead, introduce coconut oil a little at a time in divided doses. Because coconut oil kills harmful bacteria, viruses, parasites, yeasts, and fungi, the burden of removing dead organisms can trigger symptoms of detoxification. Headaches, fatigue, diarrhea, and flu-like symptoms are common in humans who consume too much too fast, and similar symptoms can occur in dogs.
Even in healthy dogs, large amounts of coconut oil can cause diarrhea or greasy stools while the body adjusts. Start with small amounts, such as 1/4 teaspoon per day for small dogs or puppies, and 1 teaspoon for large dogs. Gradually increase the amount every few days. If your dog seems tired or uncomfortable, or has diarrhea, reduce the amount temporarily.”

Hope this helps….we’re just starting Sully on it too!

[Sully’sMom]

Someone (can’t remember who?) was talking about their dogs losing interest in the food before they finished the bag. Depending how long it takes to get through the bag, this could be one cause as to why they lose interest. I just read this in the Feb issue of Whole Dog Journal:

“….The longer the food is exposed to oxygen once the bag is open, the faster it oxidizes. While buying very large bags makes the most economic sense….., it may not always make the most sense for your dog’s health. Many dogs start turning up their noses at a food by the time you reach the bottom of the bag, because by that time, the fats in the food may be quite rancid – and dogs’ noses are far more sensitive to the odor of rancid fats than our noses are. Veterinarians have a phrase for what happens when dogs are not fussy and eat rancid food, suffering digestive upset after meals: ‘bottom of the bag syndrome.'”

[Sully’sMom]

To Rambunctious: A nice, inexpensive topper is sardines! You can get a can at your local grocery store for about $1.00. I get two servings out of the can. Make sure you buy ‘in spring water, no salt added.’

[Sully’sMom]

Sharon that’s interesting. During our months long experience, our vet did suggest a prescription shampoo and I declined!

We’ll definitely be trying the coconut oil 🙂

[Sully’sMom]

Thank you both, Shasta220 and Pattyvaughn!

You know what? Yes, I definitely knew about grain-free dog food, Sully’s been on it for months, even before we knew the cause of his allergies, but I didn’t put together until I read the way you worded it (avoiding all grain) – I need to be buying grain-free treats. Duh!

The dusting suggestion was helpful too…many household changes coming up here!

So thankful for DFA 🙂

[Sully’sMom]

Thank you Sharon!

Your path sounds similar to our own. Began with several different vet visits for ‘isolated’ incidents, until thanks to all my reading, and in large part this forum, I realized these weren’t all isolated incidents. Thankfully, the vet took me seriously! We began down the road to find out what was the cause. I, too, called the breeder to inquire about the parents, littermates, etc. Nope, nothing. Just us!
I also stumbled upon the Dogs Naturally article yesterday…between that one and two in Whole Dog Journal, it sounds as if coconut oil is going to be a good thing!
Thank you for all your input 🙂

[Sully’sMom]

I just mistakenly posted this under a potato grain free forum…this is where I intended to go (that’s what I get for rushing while I’m at work!):

Hi all, I’ve been silent for a while. I did pose this question on a forum under Supplements, but thought I’d come back to my reliable group and post it here as well, as there’s always so much invaluable help and not sure if all the same parties participate in the different forums. Thank you for your indulgence:

Sully (1 yr, 7 mo yellow lab) has recently been diagnosed with allergies, most specifically to dust and storage mites (there are others, but these are the biggies). If anyone remembers us, we’ve been dealing with this for awhile, so this is actually a welcome finding – at least now we can proceed with some action! I was reading an article in the Nov 2013 issue of Whole Dog Journal about the wonders of coconut oil, and I thought this might help. Can anyone offer opinions/advice? Recommendations? It seems from the picture accompanying the article that there is no shortage of product options!

Appreciate any help I can get, as I’d like allergy resorts to be a last resort, not a first. Thank you!

[Sully’sMom]

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Sully'sMom.

[Sully’sMom]

Thank you Pattyvaughn!

[Sully’sMom]

A coworker is getting a large breed puppy in Dec/Jan (yellow lab); my own lab is now 15 months and off puppy food, but I found HDM’s list invaluable. Since this thread is now 50 pages (!), can anyone direct me conveniently to the list so I can give it to my friend? Is there a printable version? Thank you!

[Sully’sMom]

So, Pattyvaughn, a followup question:

If I switch to Earthborn Great Plains in an effort to figure out allergies, how do I handle treats, bones, chews, etc? We usually give quite a variety of treats when we’re training, sort of like a trail mix variety so he never knows what he’s getting. I only give top shelf, high quality, made in US treats, but still….there’s quite a mix!

[Sully’sMom]

I’ve got a question about toppers – after all the angst of finding the right kibble, now I keep reading articles (elsewhere) and threads (here) about toppers: sardines, eggs, yogurt, green tripe (where do you get that?)…

Anyway, is there a best way to do this? Do you rotate the different toppers each evening? I was already giving him some canned pumpkin and then started with salmon oil, so I moved the pumpkin to the morning and I squirt the salmon oil on the dinner. Would anything else be in addition, or instead of?

[Sully’sMom]

GSDGuy: you can get almost any dog food you can think of delivered to your doorstep from either Chewy.com or PetFlow.com. Free shippiing at $49, I think. Chewy tends to have the better prices, PetFlow seems to have more specials.

[Sully’sMom]

PS to Weber hunde: another thing I usually do for general itchiness (not necessarily rashes) I add Salmon Oil to his dinner every night. I haven’t done it in about a month or maybe longer as I was out of it and it is expensive, but I just got a LARGE bottle from Amazon (Iceland Pure), so will be starting back up tonight –

[Sully’sMom]

2 Questions to anyone:

1.) opinions on the Pure Vita line by Nutri Source? Was just looking at the Duck & Oatmeal, thinking it may help my itchy guy….

2.) anyone know what page of this forum I can find HDM’s list on? I’ve lost track!

Thanks all

[Sully’sMom]

Weber hunde: I’m really not familiar with either of those. Months ago, with much help from this forum (!), I finally made a list of what I wanted to rotate among. Those included: Fromm (he was fed Fromm for the bulk of his 1st year, but it is too cost prohibitive for us to continue), Merrick (mixed review so far, but probably an allergy – not a knock against the food), Earthborn and Dr Tim’s. And in the back of my mind: Zignature.

Most of the choices had to do with DFA reviews, sourcing/producing in the US, ownership of company (for example Diamond brands have lots of recalls), and price point.

Long and short of it is, I really don’t know why I never included the two you ask about – I would just check on the ownership and manufacturing plants and read the reviews!

[Sully’sMom]

Thank you gsdmommy89 ~ I appreciate that you took the time to share your experience. Obviously, NV is a highly regarded company and they probably are taking the necessary steps, however I could just never in good conscience knowingly feed my dog a food from China. Certainly not when there are so many other choices. There have just been too many “incidents”. I’m not saying I wouldn’t feed NV, just not the rabbit.

[Sully’sMom]

So, Pattyvaughn, a followup question:

If I switch to Earthborn Great Plains in an effort to figure out allergies, how do I handle treats, bones, chews, etc? We usually give quite a variety of treats when we’re training, sort of like a trail mix variety so he never knows what he’s getting. I only give top shelf, high quality, made in US treats, but still….there’s quite a mix!

[Sully’sMom]

Duke the Boxer: this is what they’ve told me so far:

“The rabbit protein we use in our canned and raw diets is from China. We employ a U.S. educated food scientist in China to oversee our rabbit sourcing. All rabbit protein is tested before shipment from China and again after it arrives in the U.S. for processing into our diets. We are very confident in how we handle our sourcing from China. We source most of our ingredients from the U.S. and turn to other locations only as needed. We are very stringent on our sourcing and have good relationships built with our vendors for quality ingredients.”

I replied that I was asking about the kibble and have not heard back. Personally, if the canned and raw diet rabbits are from China, I personally would likely not order the rabbit kibble….(aren’t there US rabbits??)

[Sully’sMom]

I will do that!

[Sully’sMom]

To Weber Hunde: Hello, I wish I could be more helpful but we’re struggling now to find a solution! I will tell you that I once rotated to BB Freedom and in the short time Sully was on it, his stools were better than they had been, but he broke out in a terrible rash. It certainly could have been coincidence with the timing of the new food, but we got off it immediately…didn’t even finish the bag.

Now he’s eating Merrick Grain Free Beef and again, stools are the best they’ve ever been and he’s itching worse than ever. Although he’s been itching since the day we got him, he seemed the best on Fromm (both Large Breed Gold puppy and Grain Free Surf and Turf), but we’ve tried to get off of Fromm as it is really too expensive.

Earthborn Holistic Great Plains is next on our list. I’ll let you know!

[Sully’sMom]

Thanks, Duke. I’ve just emailed NV as I’d heard their rabbit is sourced from China. Awaiting that reply!

Dr Tim’s is on my To Try list also 🙂

[Sully’sMom]

Thank you Pattyvaughn! Makes a lot of sense. I’ve been looking at Earthborn and was thinking the Great Plains would be a good one to start with also. And what would you think about the Nature’s Variety lines? I had never really considered them but in this thread there are often recommendations for the Rabbit…?

[Sully’sMom]

Pattyvaughn, a few pages back you made a comment about ‘dogs who were on Purina avoid chicken and all grains like the plague’ May I ask you to elaborate? My lab is now 15 mos old. When we got him at 7 weeks, the breeder was feeding him Purina Puppy Chow (!). We kept him on if for only a couple of weeks more, than transitioned to Fromm Large Breed Gold Puppy. Now we’re on a rotation: we went from the Fromm LB Gold Puppy, to Fromm GF Surf and Turf and now we’re on a bag of Merrick GF Beef. I believe he has allergies. He is itchy all the time, and biting and chewing himself. Trying to decide what to rotate to next. Earthborn? Nature’s Variety Rabbit (could only get it when on sale)?

Curious why you mentioned about Purina and chicken and grains….

Thank you!

[Sully’sMom]

I’ve been wondering about the whole Green Tripe thing in general. Did I read on one of these threads somewhere that it’s available in a can? And if that’s the case, would it be useful as a topper to kibble?

[Sully’sMom]

You may need to slow down your transition and go back to 25/75 for a few more days

[Sully’sMom]

Hi murphy’s mom ~

Welcome and congrats on your new addition! You don’t really have to choose between the Earthborn (which is about to become part of our rotation) or the Wellness. You can rotate between them. And when pup is past 8 months and you don’t have to worry about the calcium levels so much, Earthborn has other varieties you can add in also.

Enjoy,
Sully’s Mom

[Sully’sMom]

Hi, I’ve been absent for a bit….from commenting, always reading! A brand I never hear mentioned or recommended here is Nutrisca. Any thoughts? I got a trial size bag from PetFlow and was under the impression that it is an excellent food, yet it never pops up in these discussions…

[Sully’sMom]

These are good training treats: http://charleebear.com/

Pattyvaughn: good luck, I’ll hold good thoughts…

[Sully’sMom]

Ha, ha love it!
We do a couple of things to slow our guy down. First of all, we put 1/4 cup of the meal portion in ‘reserve.’ The balance we divide into two bowls. Add some warm water to each. We also allow it to sit at this point for 10 minutes ( I heard that allowing the kibble to absorb the water before ingesting helps prevent against bloat, which is the main concern about fast eating). So for starters, he’s getting the meal in two portions instead of one. The addition of the water helps slow things down as well. The reserved 1/4 cup we serve in a treat (Planet Dog Strawberry) over several helpings. He pushes the strawberry around and it dispenses kibble. Fun for him and it stretches the meal out. Also makes him “work” for it a bit. Lots of fun!

[Sully’sMom]

I had some inquiries into Victor and they just got back to me. They said that their Vitamin E is sourced from China as there is “no source in the US for E…”

Does that mean the same is likely true for all the others I’m planning on rotating: Earthborn, Merrick, Dr. Tim’s……?

Anyone have any experience with or knowledge about this?

*As an aside, the Victor person emailing me was probably the least friendly I’ve communicated with yet. Keep answering my questions so briefly that I had to keep going back to him for him to elaborate. Some of them were one word answers.

[Sully’sMom]

🙂

Also, when I was looking into those brands, both Earthborn and Dr Tim’s sent me samples, and Earthborns included coupons. Merrick doesn’t send samples, but they sent me a coupon.

[Sully’sMom]

Hi Saint Louie, Earthborn, Dr. Tim’s and Victor are exactly the brands I’ve chosen to rotate among, plus Merrick. From all I’ve read and learned here, you don’t need to choose….rotate 🙂 This way, what one may be lacking, the next one will have and vice versa.

[Sully’sMom]

Can I assume when you say that Victor GF formulas aren’t appropriate for LrgBreed puppies, that you mean puppies under 12 mos? Mine is a Lrg Breed puppy, now 13 mos, and I was planning on a Victor GF formula…..

[Sully’sMom]

🙂 to Betsy Greer!

[Sully’sMom]

As always, thank you 🙂

[Sully’sMom]

Looking back a few responses ago, I think what I’m still left wondering about, when I was mentioning the varying protein levels and kcals is: every time you rotate to a new food, do you need to adjust the quantity you feed? This should be my last remaining confusion! (I had my previous dog 16 years and we never rotated)

[Sully’sMom]

And now, thanks to you HDM, I’m adding Victor to my rotation! Is 42% protein (the Ultra Pro) too high? What are protein guidelines as far as maximum?

[Sully’sMom]

I’m glad I starting reading this thread – I’d given up looking for Victor but now thanks to HDM, I know where to find it 🙂

[Sully’sMom]

Is there a Protein % number for a goal? Or is anything above 30% good? Is there a number that is too high??

(sorry for duplicate entry – had to put something in again so I could check the Notify box!)

[Sully’sMom]

Is there a Protein % number for a goal? Or is anything above 30% good? Is there a number that is too high??

[Sully’sMom]

Thank you!

[Sully’sMom]

Hi Bigthree,

I’m only going to address the part where you said you have a real hard time getting your brand. If you’ve never tried getting your dog food on line, it’s great! Specifically, I love to recommend http://www.chewy.com; they give you an initial discount of 15% off if you set up an automatic shipment plan (which you can always adjust – they give you advance notice of shipping), shipping is free, and for many brands they do a frequent bag buyer plan! And excellent customer service. Good prices too.

Sully’s Mom

[Sully’sMom]

Any thoughts on Zignature Trout and Salmon? Sully’s 13 mos now, so not concentrating on the calcium levels.

[Sully’sMom]

I didn’t even know there was a dog food calculator! Thanks 🙂

[Sully’sMom]

Ok, here goes, Hound Dog Mom, InkedMarie, Pattyvaughn and anyone else 🙂

Sully is now 13 mos; he has been fed FrommGoldLargeBreedPuppy. I’ve been reading this wonderful forum, learning alot, and planning on transitioning him out of puppy and to……

I’ve taken what I’ve learned here, done some of my own research and decided on feeding a rotational diet of grain-free, and I’ve narrowed the brands down to:

1. ) Fromm Four Star – the most expensive of what I’ve narrowed down to, but I have a free bag of Surf & Turf waiting to be opened, so this will be our first transition. They do offer a frequent bag reward program on this brand at Chewy, so we’ll see if we continue.
2.) Earthborn – most likely the Primitive Natural
3.) Merrick – something other than the chicken, since the Earthborn Primitive Natural is turkey and chicken
4.) Dr Tim’s – I like everything I read about the company, including the price, but their grain free is only in one formula and is chicken based. Was hoping for another different protein base to round out the above.
5.) Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost – we went through some trial bags, and I like the premise but I think it will end up being cost prohibitive.

So, I’m thinking that after we use the Fromm Surf and Turf bag that we have, I thought my rotation will be either Fromm, Earthborn, Merrick OR Earthborn, Merrick, Dr. Tim’s. Either way, here’s where I’m stuck:

Among these four brands/varieties, the Protein Percentages range from a low of 28 (Fromm) to a high of 38% (The Earthborn Primitive and all of the Merrick). The Kcals vary from a low of 408 (Fromm) to a high of 460 (three of the Merrick varieties). Am I supposed to try to keep the protein % AND Kcals consistent among the rotation?

I feel like I’m at the finish line but can’t cross, lol! Help?

[Sully’sMom]

Thank you Pattyvaughn and InkedMarie!

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