[Amelia Z]

Hi Linda
see member support reply from this site about getting our email addresses to each other.

Yes, please have her email us at: “help@dogfoodadvisor.com” giving us permission to send her your email address. I’ll do my best to help.

Patti S.
Member Support

[Amelia Z]

Hey Linda
You should of asked me about which taurine to use instead of going nuts. Anyway, I use Now Foods powdered taurine.
https://www.nowfoods.com/supplements/taurine-pure-powder
I only chose the powdered because I couldn’t get the dosage I wanted in a pill and it was easier to do so with the powder.
I got this list from Dr. Stern after I already starting my supplementation. So I guess I did good since he recommends Now Foods also. But he does not recommend supplements unless your dog has DCM. But I see your cardiologist is recommending it for your boy. I stopped supplementing Kodi, although his taurine was low, I think it should be better now due to diet change.
This is from Dr. Stern:
Choosing a taurine or l-carnitine supplement:
Selecting supplements should be performed based upon those that match their stated contents and are readily available for absorption. Luckily a previous publication tested multiple taurine and lcarnitine supplements. Based upon this publication our laboratory recommends the following supplements as those meeting our quality criteria. (Bragg et al. 2009 J Am Vet Med Assoc; 234(2))
Tested taurine supplements that test within 5% of stated contents and if applicable disintegrated within 30 minutes
• Mega taurine caps by Twinlab (1000 capsule)
• Taurine by Swanson Health Products (500mg capsule)
• Taurine by NOW foods (500mg capsule)
• Taurine 500 by GNC (500mg tablet)
Tested L-carnitine supplements that test within 5% of stated contents and if applicable disintegrated within 30 minutes
• L-carnitine 500 by Jarrow Formulas (500mg capsule)
• L-carnitine caps by Country Life (500mg capsule)
• Maxi L-carnitine by Solgar Vitamin and Herb (500mg tablet)
• L-carnitine by Puritan’s Pride (500mg tablet)
The Stern lab does not recommend the empirical supplementation of taurine or l-carnitine to dogs without evidence of DCM and/or significant deficiency. If DCM is diagnosed we typically recommend dogs over 50lbs receive 1000mg of taurine every 12hrs and dogs under 50lbs receive 500mg of taurine every 12hours. We recommend L-carnitine at a dose of ~50mg/kg orally with food every 8hrs. Your veterinary cardiologist or family veterinarian should be consulted for prescribing the best dose for your dog.

[Amelia Z]

Here’s the ranges from UC Davis:
Plasma (nMol/ml)
Normal Range for dog 60-120
No known risk for deficiency >40

Whole Blood (nMol/ml)
Normal Range for dog 200-350
No known risk for deficienty >150
Now, for Golden Retreivers the whole blood should be greater than 250 per Dr. Stern. In case you’re not sure, your dog is not a golden (lol!!) Where did your vet get those numbers?
$424 is pretty good. I just paid $500 for Kodi’s and $635 for Auggie’s. I may be looking for another cardiologist. I am really pissed at her. Another long story.
I wasn’t on facebook either, who has the time? But I did join at the recommendation of Dr. Stern. There are multiple groups. This one mainly has information. check it out. I think you will be able to read it even though you don’t have a facebook account. The bottom of the page will ask you to log in but you can still scroll above and read the info.
https://www.facebook.com/taurineconcerns/?hc_location=ufi
I found out about the webinar from the pet food industry which I joined as well. (https://www.petfoodindustry.com/)
Here is the link to the FDA webinar:
https://register.gotowebinar.com/recording/viewRecording/7907909021732413698/2790714836158519809/ameliaz@verizon.net?registrantKey=6671839149515775500&type=ATTENDEEEMAILRECORDINGLINK
I actually agree with your vet about how the legumes effect the dogs system, which I stated above. That is funny about the cardiologist, what dog stays still? Kodi’s was shaking like a leaf and Auggie peed on them. (omg, both are embarassing!)
OMG, I would never feed Hills, Royal Canin, and Purina. Interesting how many people on the facebook that are switching to those foods. I just don’t get it. When you look at the ingredients, ugh!!
Anyway, I never heard of a Whoodle. I just looked it up and they are soooo cute! Talk soon!

[Amelia Z]

this is what I am saying….The grain free diets are overwhelming with too many legumes.
http://www.petfoodindustry-digital.com/201809/index.php?utm_source=KnowledgeMarketing&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Pet+eNews&utm_campaign=18_09_11_PetENews#/38

[Amelia Z]

Hi Cockaliermom
Taurine is not usually in annual blood work if it was their annual checkup. You should have their taurine checked and send it to UC Davis. Your vet can draw and you can send it.
Instructions, pricing and submission form is here:
https://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/labs/amino-acid-laboratory

[Amelia Z]

YEAH!!!! THANK GOD!! I am so glad for you. I was thinking about you guys all day. What a sigh of relief. Now you can sleep in peace! Did you tell her you switched foods already? Any followup with her needed? Don’t you hate when they talk to you like you are an idiot. Did you like her? So now you have to find a new vet. So when he is tested next time, tell them to do whole blood and taurine. Or will they do it there? My cardiologist does it, but I chose to have my vet draw it ($25) and I sent it directly to UC Davis ($151). The cardiologist wanted $289 and she was sending it to UC Davis anyway.
You know, they all say switch to grain free. I don’t believe that really is the correct thing. It is the legumes and/or potatoes that cause the problem (and that’s not 100% yet) So If you find a food that is still grain free and legumes/potato free it should be good. I don’t believe it is the grains that are helping this problem but rather the legumes that is absorbing the taurine. And aside from that, the FDA webinar form 9-4, they stated that there are more dogs getting DCM that are NOT taurine deficient than are. I noticed that on the taurine deficient facebook page. Are you on the page? They have a spreadsheet of hundreds of dogs. I studied it for hours and could see no common denominator. I am a good example of that. Both my dogs have low taurine, fed the same food and one has DCM and one doesn’t. I really think they are going nuts over this without enough conclusive evidence.
But in Auggie’s case, it was the low taurine and hopefully his heart will continue to shrink and be 100% normal.
BTW, I don’t think you mentioned how old your boy is and what breed and his name??
I did email the moderator to see if we can email directly but haven’t heard back yet. I’ll let you know. TAKE CARE & PARTY TONIGHT!!!!

[Amelia Z]

TOMORROW? OMG, GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!! Please let me know how you make out. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!! Tell your vet to take a hike!

[Amelia Z]

Thanks for the good wishes on Kodi. Yes we are pretty happy. OMG, let me get this straight. Were you talking to your vet or someone in the office? Horrible!!! Did you ask for the office manager or to speak with you vet about this? I hope you can get an appt at the university. I don’t think you would need a referral. I went to both of the cardiologists without a referral. I’m not sure what area you live it. But check out this link. In the lower right side of the page, enter the specialist and your area. Maybe you can find someone else. http://www.acvim.org/
I wonder if there is anyway we can email me directly instead of putting everything on this forum. But I wouldn’t want to put my email address here and I am sure you wouldn’t either. Maybe if we emailed to moderator to find out.
I am so upset over these people. Unbelievable! You are worse than me with the food. I think I weaned them over a period of 2 weeks. I tried the chicken first (of course, I thought I bought beef, but I didn’t). Anyway, at the beginning I was rushing it since I was so anxious to get them off the old food. One was vomiting and the other diarrhea. So that wasn’t good. Then I realize OMG, I bought the chicken. Anyway, after they were on the beef and doing good. I tried the chicken again and soft poops again. So forget the chicken. I have the turkey and soft as well. But I will try that again but slower this time. Yeah, the food is expensive but there’s no junk in it. My younger one has lost some weight on it, which is wierd because it is over 600 calories a cup and their old food was 400. But I guess since this food is low carbs. I do add organic blueberries, broccoli, cauliflower, kale, carrots (alternate each meal) supplements, taurine, L-carnitine, etc. It’s a half hour job just to feed them. But as you know, they are worth it. Anyway, please let me know how you make out.

[Amelia Z]

Kodi’s echo was NORMAL!!! THANK GOD!!!

[Amelia Z]

OMG, I’m so happy he likes the food. I was alittle hesitate to recommend something in case there is a problem but I’m glad there is not so far. He is having it at 5:30. FINGERS AND PAWS CROSSED. His name is Kodi. Auggie is the boy that was diagnosed with DCM 2 years ago and his echo was a couple of weeks ago. And they said it was almost normal. BTW, when you get your boys echo, ask if you could be in the room. The cardiologist I take Auggie to does let me, but I get the results before we leave. The cardiologist I am going to today lets us stay in the room and show us on the screen what is going on. I really like that! If not, ask if you could at least know if it is normal or not. That you are not waiting until the 21st. Are they nuts!! The 21st ok to get the report, but he knows when he’s doing the echo if his heart is enlarged or not. They could at least tell you that.
As far as the blood, if your vet’s office is stating it’s plasma-ok, but you need a whole blood also. Dr. Stern said he really looks at the whole blood. (which is more important than plasma). Why didn’t they do both. Where was the blood sent?

[Amelia Z]

Hi, Linda. Was thinking about you. Did you get the food and does your boy like it? I hope you are going slow! You say your dogs taurine was 16. Was that whole blood or taurine?

[Amelia Z]

Don’t know if anyone has read this but it’s worth a read.
https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/21_9/features/DCM-in-Dogs-Taurines-Role-in-the-Canine-Diet_21901-1.html

[Amelia Z]

Hi Linda!I believe he’s ok, but his taurine whole blood was 148 and it should be >250 for a golden. So I have to get the echo to be sure. But he was on acana grasslands all his life and he is 7, so I would think if he had an issue it would have shown by now. We’ll see.
So I hope your boy likes the real meat company or should I say his “system” likes it. Do you give him probiotics? My boy ALWAYS had very soft poop. He would start in one spot and walk all over the yard. UGH! I started with Mercola healthy pets – complete probiotics and there was a big change and now even better on this new food. Never thought I would see good poo from him! I’m sure you know to wean him slowly on this new food. It’s very rich because it’s all meat. I tried the chicken, no good for these guys (both of them very soft). Then I tried the turkey (soft, not as bad as the chicken though) but the beef is excellent for them. I will try the turkey again because they say it’s good to change proteins but if they can’t tolerate it then forget that. I also add fruits & veggies to their food as well. Do you? I buy from chewy.com, it’s actually 1.50 more than the pet guys for the 10lb bag-auto ship. So good to know they have it also. Let me know how he does on it.

[Amelia Z]

Good you insisted. Yes, a cardiac ultrasound is the same as an echo. Good Luck! Well, now I am concerned about my other Golden, so off for a ultrasound for him on 9-11. Hopefully, he will be ok!

[Amelia Z]

Probably, but I’m not chancing it. We’ve come too far.

[Amelia Z]

No problem, Linda. Although, I am giving him meat, I still plan on supplementing with taurine. Not sure if any food would give him enough, but apparently the supplementation is helping and that I am no longer feeding him food with legumes. Has your dog been echoed? What’s his taurine level? Auggie’s was 125. I am having his taurine tested again next week, since it is 4 months since the last test.
FYI….
https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2018/07/09/link-between-dog-food-taurine-deficiency-and-dcm.aspx

This is the kibble list:
https://www.earthbornholisticpetfood…k-meal-pumpkin
Also this one, but protein is high.
https://www.instinctpetfood.com/dogs…chicken-recipe
This one has limited grains and no legumes….
https://www.natureslogic.com/ingredi…ing-locations/
ALSO, First Mate https://firstmate.com/product/pacific-ocean-fish-meal-original-formula/& Sport Dog – https://sportdogfood.com/working-dog-grain-peas-free-turkey-formula/ (they were having manufacturing issues because of an increase in sales due this the legume free issue) so if you go with this better check with them about this.
Also, Famina ancestrial grains but they told me they are adding pea fiber to their new formula (are they crazy?), hopefully they will change their minds.

[Amelia Z]

YES, I did! The Real Meat Company. beef, all meat, grain free, no legumes, no potatoes, low carbs.
http://www.realmeatpet.com/product.php?pg=4
I did find some kibble brands but decided not to stay with kibble. BTW, my boy’s echo looked good on wednessday, almost normal!!! I changed his food, suppplemented with taurine and L-carnitine and he’s doing good.

[Amelia Z]

I use to feed my dogs flint river many years ago and so did my vet. She said they were out of business which is mentioned on their home page in 2016. My only concern would be that you can only buy them on line. Not for me though, since it has grains and legumes in the grain free formula. Other than that it looks ok. Good Luck!

[Amelia Z]

Well, here’s an update. I found a food with no grains, no potatoes, no legumes, low carbs and it’s 90% meat. It is in between raw and freeze dried. I just started it so we’ll see how they do. It’s called the Real Meat Company. (http://www.realmeatpet.com/) It looks and smelled good. Here are the ingredients in the beef:
Ingredients
Beef, Beef Lung, Beef Liver, Ground Beef Bone, Vegetable Glycerin, Pumpkin, Inulin (from Chicory Root), Mixed Tocopherols (used as a preservative), Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Parsley, Rosemary, Selenium Yeast, Copper Proteinate, Niacin Supplement (Vitamin B3), Manganese Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Vitamin A Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Iodate (source of Iodine), Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Vitamin D3 Supplement.

[Amelia Z]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I prefer to stay away from grain. I did find a grain free, legume free kibble.
https://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/dog-food-formulas/venture/alaska-pollock-meal-pumpkin
Also this one, but protein is high.
https://www.instinctpetfood.com/dogs/ultimate-protein/instinct-ultimate-protein-cage-free-chicken-recipe
This one has limited grains and no legumes….
https://www.natureslogic.com/ingredients/manufacturing-locations/

Although, I don’t think I will feed these this but it’s good to have a kibble as a secondary choice. I am sticking with Honest Kitchen. My boys love it. And the ingredients are very good. check it out. https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/meals

As far as Royal Canin, in my opinion it’s a low quality food. The 1st 10 ingredients in the golden retreiver formula: (ugh!)
Brown rice, chicken by-product meal (Can include chicken intestines and/or chicken feces.), oat groats, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, wheat, chicken fat, natural flavors, powdered cellulose, dried plain beet pulp. Doesn’t sound like anything I would want to feed my boys.

If I had a rescue, I certainly understand that cost would be a fact. I believe that genes has a lot to do with age, just like people. But I think there are alot better choices out there. There is no denying these facts:
https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/07/17/feather-meal.aspx

Royal Canin Says…

The big pet food manufacturers donate billions of dollars to vet schools, so why wouldn’t veterinarians recommend their food. In fact, many of these companies give free food to the vets. (good advertising for them). I truly believe we need to be cautious when it comes to dog food. I don’t trust what any of them say. Time & time again foods contain products that are hurting/killing our animals. The cancer rate in dogs continues to grow, along with a million other problems. Why are dogs living less now than they did 30 years ago?!?! Garbage in, garbage out.
And yet another story:
https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2018/07/23/feeding-turkey-feathers-on-pets.aspx?utm_source=petsnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20180723Z1&et_cid=DM223723&et_rid=372609563

It’s all very scary! Sorry to be so long winded, but it’s a nightmare just to pick a food.

[Amelia Z]

They are adding it to the ancestral grain formula. The grain free already has:
fiber vegetable of peas. Although I prefer grain free, I was getting desperate so I was going to try the ancestral grains and they said they are coming out with a new formula that will have pea fiber. I looked into sport dog that has no peas but thought it might be too rich since it is for sporting dogs. Although my goldens are a sporting breed, they are not SPORTING. But they are out of stock because of the issue of taurine and peas. So now that’s out. The more I read about kibble it really is the worse food we can give them. I am continuing to give them honest kitchen and wean them off the Acana. They seem to like it. I may give them that one meal and Grandma Lucy’s artisan Chicken for the other. This will definitely cost alot more but if it is better for them, I will do it. It certainly is worth my sanity. I can’t research any more. This is been going on for months and I am at my wits end!
Here’s some interesting info:
https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2015/11/08/best-to-worst-pet-food-types.aspx
https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/dog-food-ten-scary-truths/

[Amelia Z]

checking it out. thanks!

[Amelia Z]

Oh, BTW I was also looking into Farmina. I spoke with a rep yesterday and he tells me that they are adding pea fiber to their formulas. Their feel it’s a soluble fiber and helps with digestion. Bad timing on their part. So I guess now that’s out!

[Amelia Z]

Hi, thanks for the suggestion. Actually I am testing with honest kitchen. My only concern with it is it has high carbs which will increase their glycemic index. I may just feed them that one meal and a raw and/or freeze dried another. There are alot of potatoes in that food. If I feed just that to both my dogs, it would cost $350 a month.

[Amelia Z]

No, not for me. Will never feed them Purina. Although if I don’t find a food fast enough, inadvertently I will be feeding them Purina through a sell out.
Just found out that Champion pet foods is looking to sell to Nestle. This is disappointing and now even more reason to switch!

Nestlé in talks to buy Champion Petfoods

[Amelia Z]

Yes, you are correct. I have a call into the sport dog company. Don’t know how a “non” sport dog will do on this food. Not sure if it is too rich.

I haven’t feed grains to my dogs. Auggie was tested for food sensitivity and he is sensitive to corn. In general I don’t think grains are good for dogs. Dogs are carnivores, so the main source of protein in their diet should be meat. Grains are inferior sources of protein. Diets with higher grain and carbohydrate content can lead to weight gain, allergies and other potential health problems. I believe grains can become moldy as well. Not to mentions they are sprayed with pesticides. The problem is pet food manufacturers need a filler in the foods, so it’s either grains or legumes. Very few kibble is free of both of these.
As far as Purina and Royal Canin. just look at the ingredients, junk! I don’t trust either of these companies, it’s all about the money. Purina who makes Beneful, shouldn’t be on the market.
Royal Canin 1st two lines of ingredients: (doesn’t sound like something I would eat)
Brown rice, chicken by-product meal, oat groats, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, wheat, chicken fat, natural flavors, powdered cellulose, dried plain beet pulp, fish oil, wheat gluten, dried tomato pomace, vegetable oil, sodium silico aluminate, calcium carbonate, potassium..
The 1st ingredient in food should be a named protein (chicken, beef, pork etc) NOT rice in my opinion. My older golden who is 7, always had yeasty ears. The past couple of months I am only giving them kibble one meal, their other meal I am giving them freeze dried-Orijen regional red. I use to clean his ears every other day. Now, no yeast in 3 weeks. Coincidence, I don’t think so. I do believe that kibble is the worse type of food to feed, so I have been researching other options. I know the big push is to go raw, but I just can’t do that yet, which is why I am giving one meal freeze dried. Although, it’s getting pretty expensive.

[Amelia Z]

Yes, I think some taurine levels have gone up but I don’t know if it’s the food switch or the taurine supplement. Here’s a link to some of the cases. Alittle confusing….
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TNru_WWKf0TbZ8aYBgOJjsh4cziKZwdA6GEbXTUFJ_M/edit#gid=582733736

[Amelia Z]

Wellness Cores has legumes (peas, 4th on the list) which we need to stay away from.

[Amelia Z]

Thanks, I did research that brand but that food is for very active sporting dogs-protein is high.

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