[aimee]

Hi Reewa,

As I don’t feed a homemade raw diet I can’t advise you on how to do it to ensure proper nutrition during such a critical life stage. I feel the risks of feeding homemade raw outweigh any proposed benefits. Sorry I can not help you further. aimee

[aimee]

Hi Reewa,

When adding a food that isn’t “complete and balanced” to a food that is “complete and balanced” the recommendation is not to exceed 10% of calories from the unbalanced food.

When feeding kibble I use some of the same criteria as I posted for raw. I’d use a company that has veterinary nutritionists on staff, does feeding trials and has good quality control measures in place.

[aimee]

Hi Reewa,

Congrats on your new puppy! If I were to g with raw diet in a pup I’d want to use a commercial product that has undergone feeding trails, has been through high pressure processing to decrease pathogens and comes from a company that has a vet nutritionist on staff.

Growth is a very demanding stage and if the diet isn’t well composed it can result significant long term health problems. Growth is a life stage in which I wouldn’t choose to home prepare the food.

[aimee]

Hi Erika,

For feeding trial information read the AAFCO statement on the bag of food you are interested in. It will say something like “formulated to meet ” or “Animal feeding tests …”

You will likely need to call the company to see if they have veterinary nutritionist on staff. Smaller companies can’t afford to employ a nutritionist full time but instead may have a contractual arrangement with one. Other companies employ PhD nutritionists and veterinarians vs a veterinary nutritionist. But ask for credentials!! In talking to companies I found they will say “yes” to the do you employ a nutritionist question and then the person they are calling a nutritionist has a bachelors in business marketing!

Ask who formulates the diet and what their degree is. A company may consult with a nutritionist but that isn’t who is formulating the diet.

These are the guidelines I use to start to evaluate a food. I do allow for exceptions in certain circumstances.

[aimee]

Hi Erika,

Not a Mastiff owner… but in the 90’s when I was showing labs my friend showed Mastiffs. At the time she had the top winning female in the history of the breed. Went BOS at Westminster!

About 7 yrs ago?? I went to the nationals with them. When there I asked every breeder I came across what food they thought best for raising their dogs. Everyone of them said Eukaneuba. Eukaneuba was what my friend was feeding too to her show dogs. She said she tried many others but always went back to that brand as her line seemed to do best on it.

When I choose a food for pups I always stay with a company that has veterinary nutritionists on staff, and I want a product that has undergone feeding trials preferable with large/giant breeds.

[aimee]

I remember limonene…. from citrus peels wasn’t it? It was all the rage at one time but then pulled due to side effects i think. Natural doesn’t = safe. If you are using something that kill fleas and ticks there will always be pro’s and con’s no matter what you choose.

[aimee]

Hi Red,

I guess I wouldn’t necessarily say natural products don’t work but I think I understand what you mean. They “work” to some degree. Depending on the product they may require very frequent reapplications to be efficacious. Under heavy challenge they likely will fail to control parasites and disease transmission to a degree that would be desired.

Then again what constitutes natural? Many pesticides are found in nature.

BTW I think skeptvet is pretty fair and objective

[aimee]

Hi Adi,

I just searched on Pubmed and this is a recent publication looking at vegetarian diets for dogs and cats.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26225610

If you have a vet that is a member of AVMA you could ask him/her to get the article for you vs paying for it. Maybe it would be of help.

I’d approach vegetarian diets as I would any other diet. Who formulated the diet and what are their credentials. Is there a veterinary nutritionist on staff? Dose the company do feeding trials? What quality control measures are in place. etc.

You can find information on how to pick a diet here: http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/files/Recommendations%20on%20Selecting%20Pet%20Foods.pdf

[aimee]

Hi Pitlove,

This article is a good overview of doing a food elimination trial. http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=2499

[aimee]

Hi Pitlove,

The “gold standard” for diagnosing an adverse food reaction is a properly conducted elimination trial. Other types of testing are fraught with inaccuracy.

Adverse food reactions can be either a hypersensitivity: the reaction is driven by the immune system either type I which is IgE a true food allergy or delayed hypersensitivity type III or IV or a food intolerance: immune system is not involved in the reaction a classic example is lactose intolerance.

The mechanism for adverse food reaction is not clearly known, some are IgE driven reactions but many reactions are not which is why testing for IgE isn’t accurate. Until the mechanism is understood I don’t see that an accurate test can be developed.

Intolerance is a reaction to the food that doesn’t involve the immune system and may be caused from several factors that currently are not being tested for in the dog.

[aimee]

Hi Shawna,

My anecdote didn’t have to do with mind over matter…. it is an example that medical conditions can abruptly change giving the false illusion that some intervention “worked”

As you may recall Brooke has had focal seizures with variable time intervals between events. She went through a horrible cluster of back to back events and was seen by a neurologist who recommended not to yet start her on drugs, but to continue to track the events. ……. I didn’t take to her a holistic vet… I didn’t change the household environment in any way … I didn’t add or remove any nutrients from her diet. I did absolutely nothing.

Like Peachy, Brooke has never had another seizure and it has been years. Now maybe she has had a seizure when we are not home but the same could be said for Peachy. The point is we took different paths but had the same outcome. If I had changed something I may have falsely attributed the seizure free interval to what ever I did.

Everything “works” which is why testimonials are very weak evidence.

In regard to Glacier Peak Holistics the company says it best ” this assessment…is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.” If the company itself reports the test is essentially worthless why should I think otherwise?

[aimee]

I see that the Glacier Holistics posts a disclaimer for this “test”

“The information provided by this assessment is intended for educational and nutritional purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

Why run a test when the company that is offering it states it has no applicable purpose?

I thought about getting a few kits.. taking samples and sending them in to see it the results were repeatable but when asked about accuracy the company states “results vary”. This could mean they acknowledge that you won’t get the same results twice on the same sample.

Shawna, I understand how powerful personal experience is. Last year I woke one day with terrible knee pain. I hadn’t injured my knee and had no idea why. My husband wanted me to go to the Dr and I said if it wasn’t resolved in 6 months I’d go. Rest, ice, elevation, knee support brace resulted in a waxing and waning pattern but it was always there.

About 5 1/2 months in it flared terribly and I conceded I’d have to go to the Dr as I promised hubby I would. But … in pain and out of options I asked an acquaintance who practiced an alternative modality to treat me. He had offered many times before and I politely declined.

It was arranged for a evening treatment. The next am I woke and the pain was gone! Vanished! It has now been over 6 months and it never returned. Certainly would have made a believer out of me. I say would have because on the night of the scheduled treatment something came up and he couldn’t do it. I was never treated. The pain went away just as suddenly as it came on.

I always understood that testimonial was a weak form of evidence and that controlled blinded studies are needed, but boy oh boy did that experience ever drive that point home!

In regards to Glacier Peaks I see no mention of what is being measured, how it is measured or how the test was validated. Until the company is forthcoming with that information I couldn’t ever recommend it.

[aimee]

I’m familiar with biofeedback as a way of training/conditioning a person to control physiologic responses: blood pressure, heart rate, muscle tension. So yes I can see Mayo clinic using this behavioral tool.

However this is very different from and i don’t see the relationship to “biofeedback energy from the DNA samples that you provide from both your dog’s saliva and hair.”

What exactly is being measured? How is “biofeedback” encoded into the nucleotide sequence of DNA. Please explain.

[aimee]

Hi Cornchipcorgi,

When my girl was a pup she was diagnosed with UTI and I freaked out as her breed is known for urinary tract malformations. I’m not familiar with Corgis so I can’t comment on that aspect. I can tell you that I invested in multiple urine cultures baseline radiographs and an ultrasound. If she recurred my plan was to have urinary tract scoped.

In my extensive research I’ve never found that diet either causes or prevents UTI.

[aimee]

Hi Alison,

As pups are more susceptible to food borne pathogens, when feeding raw using a HPP product adds a layer of safety. A commercial product that has been through feeding trials is preferred as a nutrient error in a rapidly growing pup will be magnified and can result in disaster.

[aimee]

Hi weezerweeks,

Soloxine is currently not being made. Many of the products made by that company are not available as manufacturing has temporarily( ?? ) halted. I think it has to do with corporate restructuring or moving the manufacturing facilities…something along those lines.

[aimee]

Hi Skeptvet!

Just want to say thanks for all you do! Thanks for your input!

[aimee]

Hi Pitlove,

I never found there was any sound support for the “carbs feed the yeast” myth. It really makes absolutely no sense at all. Really sad to see people who should know better perpetuating such nonsense and a breath of fresh air to see someone call it out for what it is: urban legend.

[aimee]

Hi Joseph,

You can find some good information here regarding diet and cancer https://weethnutrition.wordpress.com/

Nutrition and Cancer: What We Can and Can’t DO

[aimee]

Hi Miss Koa,

Bacterial transference is a concern, not only from the material on her mouth and legs but also from the other end too. Salmonella can be a hardy bacteria and a simple wash down after eating is unlikely to eliminate it.

I had a reference, and may still have it, just don’t have time to look, in which the contents of the vacuum cleaner was cultured from homes with raw fed dogs in them, 10% cultured positive. However, homes without raw fed dogs cultured positive as well. It was a much smaller number but statistically there wasn’t a large enough sample to be significant. The stuff gets around. Avoiding raw altogether doesn’t eliminate risk completely as kibble occasionally tests positive and raw protein “treats” are a source as well ( dehydrated chews ie pig ears)

Salmonella is more common in poultry products so you could just avoid those. Another option would be to use a commercial high pressure pasteurized product. Both options would reduce risk. Some companies test and hold their products.

theBcnut summed it up nicely. If there are immunocompromised people in the home, children and I may even add adults on acid reducing medications the risk will be increased that transfer could happen to the individuals in your home. I decided raw wasn’t appropriate for my household. Not just for Salmonella but for other reasons as well.

For great clicker training videos see kikopup on youtube. Her website is dogmantics dot come.

[aimee]

Carrie,

You can find information of dissolution of struvite stones here http://www.wvc.org/images/session_notes_2013/2013_SA323.pdf

[aimee]

Hi losal,

I took a look at the nutritional information posted and I agree things don’t add up. The company writes that their diets meet or exceed AAFCO guidelines yet using their posted information they do not.

I just looked at a few items. For the puppy diet they report 232 mg Ca/132 kcals which is ~1.75 grams Ca/1000kcals well below AAFCO min of 2.8 Grams/1000 kcals for growth and reproduction. NRC min for growth is 2.0 grams Ca /1000kcals. The diet barely meets AAFCO min for main but sadly this diet is marketed for pups.

Vit E is reported as .73mg alpha toco /132 kcals ~ 5.5mg alpha toco/1000 kcals NRC does not have a min. reported but report adequate at 6.0 mg/1000kcals and recommended at 7.5 mg/1000kcals. So using the reported information this diet is short of NRC rec.allowance.

Vit E is expressed in IU by AAFCO 14.2 IU/1000 kcals which is equivalent to ~ 9.5 mg alpha toco/1000kcals. The diet is short of AAFCO as well.

There is a lot of misinformation on the web site and combined with the nutrient discrepancies in the few I checked I myself would pass on feeding this company’s products.

[aimee]

Hi Karma,

I sorry for what you and your dog are going through. In regards to severe kidney impairment, there are not any “Over the Counter” non vet food for this purpose. The phosphorus levels are too high. Have you considered home cooking? Balanceit dot com is a good place to start and they have a kibble that may meet your needs Grain Free Pork and Potato.

• This reply was modified 9 years ago by aimee.

[aimee]

Hi Alan I,

I don’t have a reference handy for you but my understanding is that dogs are very resistant to dietary ketosis compared to people. I think this is why you can’t find much on dietary ketosis in dogs. I wouldn’t expect one would see ketones in the urine of a low carb fed dog unless another problem was present.

[aimee]

I raised her on Purina Pro Plan large breed puppy.

[aimee]

Hi Thomas K,

I also have a Lab, and I used to show in conformation and obedience. I simply love the breed.

I understand your frustration in trying to choose a food for your new little one based on reviews. The accolades or denigrations of any particular diet may or may not have anything to actually do with the food being fed.

I base my decision on the company information. Things that are important to me are: Does the company employ a veterinary nutritionist?, Who formulated the diet and what are their credentials?, What are the quality control measures the company uses? Who makes the diets? Does the company feed the diets they make to dogs and monitor their health? Does the company do AAFCO feeding trials? Were any recalls issued and were they properly executed. ( The fact that a company had a recall doesn’t concern me as much as what it was for and how it was handled.)

Ultimately the product I choose to feed is not high on the star rating and that OK as I don’t value the criteria used for ratings on this site as much as I do my my own criteria.

The company I choose told me all of the plant based ingredients are tested for nutrient content and contaminants prior to being accepted, the animal based ingredients are randomly tested making sure their supplier is conforming to their required standards, the foods are tested post production as well. The company fed the diet to Lab pups and monitored orthopedic development, body composition, hormonal status along with general blood chemistries, blood counts and urinalyses some for 6 months and others until 12 months. The company employs veterinary nutritionists along with PhD ‘s , general veterinarians and other specialists. The company was able to answer nutritional questions accurately and provide nutritional information I asked for. The food I choose has 2.5 stars.

Contrast this to another company ( 5 star diet). The person formulating the diets has a bachelors in marketing, there are no nutritionists veterinary or otherwise consulted in diet formulation. The company doesn’t do any testing of any type on ingredients prior to using them and was unsure what the co packer was doing post production in regards to testing the diets. The company did a feeding trial but doesn’t know the breed or weight of the dogs used in the trial and only did the minimum parameter required by AAFCO. The company was unable to answer basic nutritional questions correctly.

Decide what is important to you for a dog food and then interview the companies to see which one meets your criteria as a way to get started.

[aimee]

I wouldn’t say Annamaet is better than Wellness core for weight loss just that there is no reason to dismiss it as a choice based on carbohydrate content. Feeding fewer calories than are required is still key to weight loss. If your dog isn’t losing weight at a particular caloric intake than the choice is to increase expenditure or decrease intake.

You can find the Borne study here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.1550-8528.1996.tb00241.x/pdf

and the one about increased body fat when increasing calories fed as fat here: http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/52/10/2453.full

[aimee]

Hi Kathy,

I agree I wouldn’t get THK and then cook it. I did it only as a experiment.

[aimee]

Hi Kathy J,

In regards to The Honest Kitchen I asked myself the same question in regards to digestibility of the plant matter. I asked the company if they had done any type of digestibility studies and they have not. I specifically asked if they ever did anything as simple as visually inspect “output” and they said they had not.

You can find more information on the THK thread. I hydrated the food, identified and counted the various food elements (sweet potato, cabbage etc) then fed the meal to my dog and evaluated output. I didn’t find the pumpkin pieces and assume it was digested. The sweet potato looked the same coming out as going in. The apple was partially digested and the cabbage and celery pieces had minimal change to them. I then repeated the experiment but cooked the diet before feeding and few identifiable pieces were found.

[aimee]

Hi Kathleen,

Making a few assumptions here, on a caloric basis the percent of calories coming from protein are close, (5% difference) and without knowing the protein digestibility of the two diets it is hard to tell with which diet Jack would be getting more protein from. The percent of calories from fat will be about 25 % lower and percent from carb about 25% higher when feeding Annamaet. When fewer calories were fed as fat and more as carbohydrate the dogs lost more weight and a greater percentage of fat (Borne).

[aimee]

Hi Losul,

The physiology behind it is the same reasoning as with people; urea is a solute. From Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats ” For example, higher protein and/or mineral content of food may increase the solute load and subsequent degree of water consumption and urine production” From Applied Veterinary Clinical Nutrition in regards to patients with renal compromise: “Modified protein diets can help diminish the degree of polyuria and polydipsia because less solute is delivered to the kidneys in the form of proteinaceous wastes.”

There could be other factors as well. I’d think it reasonable that with a raw meat based diet you would have less water loss via feces than a commercial kibble diet.

Yes absolutely, low protein diets ( much lower than AAFCO) will cause dilute urine. The reason again is solute load. In this case is it so low that the concentration gradient in the kidney isn’t maintained.

[aimee]

Hi K-Rae,

When feeding high protein diets you are supplying protein in excess of needs. The “excess” in broken down and used for energy. The nitrogen has to be excreted and this requires water to do so. I’ve commonly seen it reported by people on this site that when they switched to a high protein food that they noted their pet was urinating a lot. I searched on “protein dehydrating” and found quite a few articles that discussed this.

That said any change in your pet is a reason for seeking vet care.

[aimee]

Hi Cdubau,

Pet food calculators use an equation to determine energy requirements. But and this is a big but any particular dog can vary significantly from that number. What I’ve seen is if the calculated number is say 800 calories a day that number can vary from 400-1200 depending on the individual dog. Foods are formulated so that there is X nutrient/1000kcals such that when your dog eats to meet his energy need the nutrient need is met. During weight loss though we are intentionally not meeting the energy need. Weight loss foods should be formulated to have a much higher nutrient /1000 kcals than a maintenance food so that when “underfeeding” the dog’s nutrient need is met. For those dogs that require very few calories it may be that some foods won’t meet their nutrient needs when meeting their energy needs. If you need to feed far less than label recommendations to establish weight loss then it is an indication to get the actual formulation and calculate if the nutrient needs are being met. Or you could try calling the company and asking for your dog’s weight what is the minimum amount of food that can be fed that will meet the dog’s nutrient needs. The company may or may not be able to answer that correctly which is why I self calculate using the nutrient analysis provided by the company.

[aimee]

Hi Cdubau,

In regards to weight loss the balance between caloric expenditure and intake is the most important factor in success. If the dogs are not losing weight at the current amount being fed than caloric intake needs to decrease or expenditure needs to increase. Having your dogs evaluated by your vet to make sure that medical conditions are not playing a role is a reasonable thing to do.

Wellness recommends to use their package recommendations as a starting guide. You may still have wiggle room here to adjust downwards but I understand your concern to meet nutrient needs. As my own dog has low caloric intake requirements it is something I monitor. Using a nutrient analysis from the company, your dog’s weight and amount fed the intake can be calculated and compared to NRC requirements.

You may need to switch diets if you are not meeting nutritional needs at the caloric intake needed to lose weight.

Throughout weight loss you want to feed a high proportion of calories from protein, this is different than saying a high protein diet. A diet can be “high” in protein on a percentage basis but not on a calorie basis depending on the fat value of the diet. People differ in their recommendations to feed the energy calories from carbohydrate or fat. There are a few studies on this to guide us. In Romsos’ study, dogs fed a diet 25% protein calories, 62% calories as carb and 13% as fat were leaner and gained weight less efficiently than dogs fed 25% protein calories 0% carb calories and 75% fat calories. In Kim et el when keeping total calories fed the same, increasing the percent of calories from fat by about 8% doubled trunk body fat in 12 weeks while weight remained the same.

In regards to weight loss, when fed a low fat diet and holding fat calories constant, weight was loss was greater when more calories were fed as protein vs carbohydrate (Bierer). I think this is where people assume that low carb diets are preferable for weight loss. However, when keeping the percent of calories fed as protein constant dogs lost more body fat when fed a greater percentage of calories as carbohydrate and fewer percent of calories as fat (Borne) . There was a confounding variable in this study though as the low fat diet was also higher in fiber. The lower fat/higher carb group lost more total weight than the higher fat/ lower carb group but it didn’t differ significantly between the two groups. However the percent of fat loss was significantly greater in the low fat/ high carb group vs the low carb higher fat group.

Putting this all together, based on current research, feeding a high percent of calories from protein and a low percent of total calories from fat and letting the carb calories fall where they may is likely the best composition for a weight loss diet for dogs.

[aimee]

Hi Caroline,

Each year when my dog’s blood is taken for heartworm testing I also have a blood profile run. If my dog was on any ongoing medication that could affect organs I’d probably have it done more often than yearly.

[aimee]

Peter L,

I understand what you are saying but I disagree. I’d expect that there is a significant difference between the nutrient levels in the protein sources that would impact the final analysis. Chicken meal is limited to muscle skin fat connective tissue while beef meal can contain any part of the bovine. Additionally the AA profile should change between protein sources and levels yet this is not what is reported.

Also the canned diets used to report the same analysis as the dry foods did. This has changed for most of the diets yet the rabbit canned diet still reports the same analysis as the dry products, with a few numbers changed here and there : ), despite having a completely different ingredient profile and processing.

chicken dry:Chicken Meal, Millet, Chicken Fat, Pumpkin Seed, Yeast Culture, Spray Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Eggs, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite Clay, Kelp, Cheese Powder, Porcine Plasma, Dried Tomato, Almonds, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Carrot, Dried Apple, Sardine Meal, Egg Shell Meal, Dried Pumpkin, Dried Apricot, Dried Blueberry, Dried Spinach, Dried Broccoli, Dried Cranberry, Parsley, Dried Artichoke, Rosemary,…

Rabbit canned: Rabbit, Water Sufficient for Processing, Turkey Liver, Dried Egg Product, Porcine Plasma, Montmorillonite Clay, Cod Liver Oil, Egg Shell Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Apple, Dried Apricot, Alfalfa Meal, Dried Artichoke, Dried Blueberry, Dried Broccoli, Dried Carrot, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Cranberry, Dried Kelp, Parsley, Dried Pumpkin, Rosemary, Dried Spinach, Dried Tomato.

For both diets the Vit A is reported as 23, 020, Vit D 175 Iu/kg, Vit E 21.34 IU/kg,thiamine 46.9mg/kg, riboflavin 8.14….etc

The Fortifier analysis also is very similar to the others yet the ingredient line up is very different.

Another other concern I had with this company’s nutrient reporting was the comparison chart for millet with other carbohydrate ingredients. They report all on a dry matter basis except for millet which is on an as fed basis. When comparing, all ingredient should be reported on a dry matter basis. By not doing this they falsely make the millet look lower in carbs/sugar when comparing to other sources than it actually is. Of greater concern is that they chose to use a processed puffed millet cereal entry from the USDA database instead of millet flour which would more correctly reflect what is in the food. I assume they did this to make millet look lower in sugar than the other ingredients they are comparing to.

[aimee]

Hi Peter L

The posted “actual analysis” for each product appears product specific. However, when I last spoke to Scott Freeman, the owner of Nature’s Logic, he told me that he only had one formula fully analyzed. The chicken formula dry food was analyzed and then he reported that analysis as the “actual analysis” for multiple products and as he said “changed a few numbers here and there”

This is why you will see an identical nutrient level posted for multiple products. For example, the Vit D level in the Fortifier is 175 IU/kg which is the same number reported for the canine dry chicken, beef, lamb, duck and salmon, rabbit, venison, and sardine diets. In other words every dry diet is reported as the same number.

[aimee]

Hi Jan

The higher protein level in one food compared to another as reported in a guaranteed analysis can’t be used to judge which food is better. A “higher” protein diet may actually have less useable protein than a “lower” protein diet. Additionally, after meeting protein needs the protein is used for energy. Using protein to supply energy is fine but it is an expensive source of energy.

To make a better comparison is to use the calorie weight basis method. In other words what percentage of the calories being fed come from protein. Then you should call the company and ask what is the protein digestibility for each diet. Some products may contain high levels of indigestible protein from connective tissue and hair.

[aimee]

Dori,

I’d disagree with your statement that potato and possibly all nightshades are to be avoided in inflammatory conditions. It may depend on the specific type of inflammation, however if you search on potato and inflammation in pubmed you’ll find that many/ nearly all of the papers describe the many anti inflammatory/ anti cancer attributes of potato. if I had listened to someone’s advice to avoid potato for inflammatory conditions I may have lost out on finding the food that has allowed Jack to heal.

[aimee]

Hi David,

You will likely get varied opinions. As for myself I’ve found that the larger companies better meet my needs. Many companies simply market pet food. Sad as it is they don’t have nutritionists on staff, don’t invest in nutritional research and have little quality control.

The foods you feed are some of the same that I feed, as I’ve used Hill’s S.D. And Purina Pro
Plan with great success.

[aimee]

Dori,

I don’t know what her recommendations are in regards to stones. I was referring to the recommendation for Science Diet for growth of large breed dogs in an article she authored on that topic.

[aimee]

Hi Tom,

My perspective is a bit different so I’ll share it with you. On one hand I think that veterinarians have a duty to inform. If you are feeding your dog a raw diet they have to inform you of risk of pathogens. If they don’t they can be open for a malpractice suit if someone gets ill and it is traced back to the dog’s raw diet.
Your dog has formed stones in the past. I see it as a duty to inform you that the diet you are feeding has not been shown to reduce uric acid stone formation whereas U/D has.
As Dals age the risk of stone formation decreases, you can find common ground by monitoring urine to hit the target parameters to prevent uric acid stone recurrence.

Why do vets recommend Hills? Is it lack of nutrition knowledge? I don’t see that as the reason because I have found that it is those with the most education that also recommend Hills. Stepping away from dogs and vets for a minute, I found that PhD nutritionists selecting commercial diets to feed to valuable zoo animals often choose Hills. At the major zoo near me I saw that Hills was being fed. I asked why and was told it was because of the consistency of formulation and high bioavailability of nutrients.

Veterinary nutritionists also recommend Hills and the general practiioner will look to the specialists in their respective fields when seeking guidance with their cases. Dr. Wynn, a holistic practiioner who is so passionate about proper nutrition that she went on to be board certified in nutrition, recommends Hills.

It really isn’t about lack of knowledge, it is about using a different value system by which foods are evaluated. As for myself, I use Hills products, my choice, based on the things that are important to me when deciding what to use to nourish my dog.

I agree that vets do not get a lot of nutritional training. Just as they don’t get a lot of trading in cardiology or dentistry or radiology etc etc etc.. Yet I’ve yet to hear someone say “I don’t have my vet listen to my dog’s heart because he only had a few lectures on cardiology in vet school”. Certainly how much education any one vet will have will vary with the school form which he/she graduated and also with their own interests. Six of the seven vets where I take my pets did not have any nutritional education from
Hills etc. They had a PhD for general nutrition and then DVM faculty for clinical nutrition. Thry did get a free copy of Small Animal Clinicl Nutriton but no direct contact. The seventh said that they were “lunch and learns” put on by Hills and after the presentation faculty together with the students critiqued the information given to them. These were not a formal part of her nutritional training. Of the seven vets, five different schools were represented and years of graduation varied from 1972 to 2011. Different schools will have different programs, but this idea that students are taught by and brainwashed by company reps I’ve found not to be true.

Do Vets get kickbacks? No but as when selling any product they charge you more then what they paid for it.

[aimee]

I’m not following you well. I think of a calorically dense food as one that has a higher kcals/kg of food compared to another diet Caloric density is related to the fat and fiber levels in the diet. How much a cup of food weighs depends on the size, shape and density of the kibble (how puffed it is with air from extrusion). Smaller kibbles fit more compactly into a container, less “wasted” space and so more weight.

For JM the company reports 106 gram/cup, for DH, their dental diet which I’d assume has larger pieces, only 80 grms/cup and for the small bites DH 84 grams/cup.

You don’t need to weigh the food as Purina already reports the weight/cup for you on their site as 106 grams/cup. Where the difference may come in though is the shape of your measuring cup and how you level it. You may come up with a different weight.

[aimee]

Did you ask “about how many cups were in a 32 pound of food” or did you specifically ask about JM? Just curious. I calculated about 137 cups in a 32 lb bag of food. The formula I used was (32 lbs x 1kg/2.2lbs x 1000 grams/kg)/106grams/cup = 137 cups. I’m curious if they use a different method. If you call them report back.

[aimee]

How I’d view this ” I have yet to get a straight answer.” is that that is your answer, which means no they are not. I asked Dr. Harvey’s for the nutritional profile of their pre mix and the company said I needed to call for any information. It made me wonder why? Why won’t they put it in writing? I asked several questions and the company didn’t answer any of them.

I can say that the information on the site gives me pause for concern and that this is not a company whose products I’d feel comfortable feeding.

[aimee]

Hi Marc,

I considered this food for my dog who is on a venison limited ingredient diet but ultimately decided the company didn’t meet my standards. At the time, the owner of the company, Scott Freeman told me that they do not do any ingredient testing of any type, instead they rely on the spec sheet form their suppliers. I found this unacceptable. Additionally, he seemed unsure of what post production quality control testing was being done at the co packer.

In the past when posters to this site have complained of a chemically smell from their dog’s food ( not this food) it had been found to be rancid. Natures Variety had a problem with this with their beef formula . /dog-food-recall/natures-variety-dog-food-recall-2012/

The change in smell may not have anything to so with the ingredient change. Lamb can be a strong odor but I don’t think the food should smell like chemicals.

The labeling information on the bag is supposed to reflect what is in the bag. Many will cite what I believe to be an “urban legend” that manufactures can make a switch and have 6 months for the bag to reflect that. I’ve never found an AAFCO reg that allows for this. The closest I’ve come is a reg that allows a company for 6 months to advertise the food as “new formula” on their bags after a change has been made.

[aimee]

Since you mentioned mange. you can find information here. http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=616

“Mites prefer hairless skin and thus the ear flaps, elbows and abdomen are at highest risk for the red, scaly itchy skin that characterizes sarcoptic mange.”

[aimee]

Hi Dori,

When intercepter was available I gave Jack Intercepter and Brooke Sentinal. It would be pretty hard to miss a hitchhiker flea on Jack! Now I use Sentinal with both.

If/when Intercepter comes back I might return to Intercepter for Jack. With coated dogs and flea exposure I prefer the extra protection of Sentinal. On more than one occassion I’ve found a flea on Brooke and was glad to have Sentinal on board knowing that any eggs it laid wouldn’t hatch.

Rabies.. I use three year vaccinations every 3 years.

[aimee]

Losal,

I didn’t read Mellissaandcrew’s comment as trying to be anything but informative. She did preface it by saying she has fallen behind on research.

Each person has to decide for themselves what is the best course of treatment. When faced with the decision there is no way to know what I’d actually do. Certainly with a new dog, one that hadn’t been on a good prevention program or any dog with any signs of heartworm disease, I’d use immiticide. I think if my dogs currently came up heartworm positive I would likely use Immiticide. They are active dogs and from what I’ve read the lung/artery damage is most evident in an active dog when undergoing “slow kill”. I wouldn’t want to exercise restrict, potentially for years, until the worms were gone.

But I could also see myself as reasoning that they have been on preventative, likely have a low worm burden and consider “slow kill”. Immiticide isn’t 100% and even after treatment it is still possible to have worms remain.

With slow kill I may fret more in regards to “are they really gone”? This can be a concern with any method of removal but I read that when using slow kill method dogs may revert to a negative antigen test but still be worm positive. This is because of antibody formation that ties up antigen. http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/symbiosis-parasitology-heartworm-recommendations-updated?rel=canonical

I hope to never be faced with having to make that decision, it would be heart wrenching. I do all I can do to prevent HWD by giving my dogs heartworm preventative once a month all year round.

Wishing only the best for you and Turbo.

[aimee]

I don’t do dog parks either.

Cheryl,

Like Dori all the females I’ve ever had have been spayed and I’ll continue to do so. It is a personal decision. I don’t think the data is out there to really know what is best. For myself I see the risk of mammary cancer, pyometria, ovarian cancer, ovarian cysts etc all as being a greater risk than perhaps an uptick in uncommon cancers or conditions. However I will say that my last 2 females have had 1 cycle before spaying. I lean towards having the growth plates closed before removing the hormones.

[Author]

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