[Shawna]

Zoe C,

Thought you might find this interesting.
PetMD website, article written by Dr. Ken Tudor
““The solution to pollution is dilution” is the phrase we veterinarians now use to explain how to prevent urinary crystal and stone formation. Time, observation, and studies have shown us that there are no magical diets for solving this problem and that water consumption is key.

The more dilute urine is the less likely minerals can clump together to form crystals and stones, no matter what the urine pH.

Without any recipe manipulations, we have been successful in dissolving kidney and bladder struvite stones and preventing the recurrence of both struvite and oxalate crystals. I attribute the success primarily to the water content of the homemade diets for struvites and the combination of water and ingredient selection for oxalates.

The take home for those of you with cats and dogs that are urine crystal formers is to increase the amount of water in the diet.

That can be achieved easily by adding water to their dry and wet foods.” http://www.petmd.com/blogs/thedailyvet/ken-tudor/2015/november/water-solution-urinary-crystals-pets-33270

[donald f]

I can tell you from years of personal experience with a mini schnauzer who had calcium/oxalate (CaOx) stones, that if your dog has CaOx stones, you can completely eliminate them and prevent them by searching on the internet for the FuzzerFood diet created by Leslie Bean, and feeding it to your dog. It is a combination of home cooked, low oxalate food (typically chicken, broccoli and rice, and certain inexpensive supplements), easy to prepare in advance and even freeze individual meals. My holistic vet gave me an article out of the Whole Dog Journal that explained all. This protocol gave my Max many years of fun life after already having stones removed surgically by another vet. Going further, join the K9KidneyDiet yahoo group. Leslie posts on that frequently. It is a huge source of support and knowledge by people who live and breath canine chemistry. Its topic are limited to kidney/renal issues and bladder stone issues- both CaOx and struvite stones. I am happy to pdf a copy of the WDJ article to anyone whose dog has an issue with stones. oulalaw13@aol.com
Oh and BTW, the K9Kidney group is ultra critical about commercial “vet” sold foods purporting to be for dogs with stones, and recommends none for stone issues due to other chemicals in the food. Home cooking your dog’s food does take a little more work, but it is SOOO worth it for a dog with recurring stones.

[anonymously]

This must be what you are talking about:
“Supports Struvite Dissolution
Supports urinary health
Increases urine volume to help decrease struvite and calcium oxalate levels
Royal Canin Urinary SO Index® promotes a urinary environment unfavorable to the development of both struvite and calcium oxalate crystals
100% Complete and Balanced Nutrition
100% Satisfaction Guaranteed
Canine Urinary SO Small Dog is a complete and balanced diet specifically designed for small breed adult dogs. It is formulated to aid in the nutritional management of calcium oxalate and struvite urolithiasis.”
– See more at: https://www.royalcanin.com/products/royal-canin-veterinary-diet-canine-urinary-so-small-dog-dry-dog-food-8.8-lb-bag/488488#sthash.XwQ2ioGa.dpuf

[anonymously]

Check out Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea at Chewy.com
My dog has a history of struvite and calcium oxalate stones and does well on it, no reoccurrence in bladder stones in almost 5 years now. I add water and offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate. Keep the bladder flushed.
I have also used prescription food recommended by the vet with good results.

Ingredients
Salmon, Menhaden Fish Meal, Peas, Chickpeas, Salmon Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Pea Fiber, Flaxseed, Calcium Carbonate, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Dried Eggs, Natural Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Carrots, Cranberries, Apricots, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Iron Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Proteinate, Biotin, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Rosemary Extract

[Jaclyn C]

Hello,

This is my first time posting so I apologize if I should have started a new thread. I have read many of these forums, but haven’t found anyone with a similiar case.

My Lhasa Apso is 13 years old. She has had 3 surgeries for bladder stones and despite following all instructions/diet from different vets her entire life, she has them for a 4th time.

The first surgery-stones were struvite and she was already on Urinary SO which wasn’t working. Six months later she had stones again even after continuing the Urinary SO and had to have another surgery. This time they were Calcium Oxalate. Vet said they never seen that happen before. The 3rd time it was Oxalate again and now I have no idea what type they will be, but I am concerned because the last surgery was really hard on her. Her liver level has always been elevated so the last time they couldn’t give her good pain meds so she was in so much pain after the surgery. I can’t stand to see her go through that again. She doesn’t have a UTI and has had the current stones for over a year. The vet said that they are extremely small, so just to keep an eye on them since my dog is acting normal with no crystals in her urine or UTI.

The Urinary SO seems to give my dog bad food allergies, but she has been on it all her life. It obviously hasn’t done anything to help her, but only make her overweight and itchy with dry skin. I have tried multiple vets, all telling me different things more like they are experimenting with her. At this point I am beyond fustrated and don’t know what to do. My dog has other health problems such as a bad cough which won’t go away as well as shaky legs with athritis. She seems happy and tries to play, but I feel like switching her food will help her lose weight which might help with the cough and strain on her legs. I have no clue what food to feed her because all the vets say the reduced calorie Urinary SO or another Urinary prescription diet to treat another type of stone. None of the vets seem to know what to do and and sometimes diagree with each other. Does anyone have any recommendations? At this point I feel like changing foods will help her more than hurt her. Thoughts?

Thank you in advance.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Deborah-
Sorry to hear about your dog’s condition. Is she currently eating the Rx food? If yes, I would caution you on feeding any supplements without clearing them with your vet. They could actually over acidify her pH causing calcium oxalate stones instead, which are even worse because they cannot be dissolved like the Struvite type.

Like you mentioned, water is of the utmost importance along with plenty of bathroom breaks to keep the urine diluted and the bladder clear. Also, after my ordeal with my cat, I started feeding three smaller meals per day to keep the pH level more even.

The Rx food not only helps lower the pH, it also has the proper amount of the magnesium. phosphate and calcium minerals to keep the crystals at bay. I’m assuming you are talking about feeding the kibble, not canned. If yes, have you asked the vet if you could at least supplement with a little canned or fresh foods safely to make the food more appetizing and healthy?

Does your pup have recurrent infections? I was led to believe most of the time crystals and/or stones are associated with uti’s in dogs. And once those are gone, the stones are gone.

There are some really good links on this site on this condition. I’m on my iPad now and don’t know how to post them. If you use the search bar and type Minnesota, you can find a great one from their university on bladder stones. Best wishes!

[anonymously]

“We assumed the grain allergy. However with Cystine stones, he has a genetic defect and cannot process animal protein”.

Don’t assume anything regarding allergies. Unless the dog has been examined and tested by a board certified dermatologist. http://www.acvd.org/

The diets recommended for struvite or calcium oxalate bladder stones may not apply to your dog, the type of stones he has require a specific diet and treatment (like the one your vet recommended).

I would work closely with your veterinarian or find a veterinarian that specializes in Internal Medicine, do you have a veterinary hospital in your area? Your dog has a serious condition, this is not a DIY (imo)
http://www.caninecystinuria.com/Treatment.html http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjotherstones.html#cystine

PS: Have you tried the search engine at this site? Lots of information on “allergies” and “bladder stones”

[anonymously]

Excerpts from previous posts:

As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
In fact, I just took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work was good”.

“I was afraid the vet would want to do x-rays and test his urine…..but he said as long as he is not having symptoms we are not going there (he’s too old to tolerate another surgery)”
“I do monitor his urination habits and check for normal flow, stream, amount. If I note any discomfort I will take him to the vet”.

“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones.

“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently.
I went along with the prescription diet for almost a year, since then he has been on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble soaked with water +, I use the wet food too”
PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by anonymously.

[anonymously]

My dog had both types of stones (struvite and calcium oxalate). I would give no supplements unless approved by the vet that has examined your dog and is treating him.
You could make the situation worse.

It takes weeks (sometimes 2-3 months) to see a change in PH after diet changes and increased water added to the diet, so testing PH at home is not accurate. Just go by what the veterinarian recommends
/forums/search/bladder+stones/.

[3pupmom]

So had another recheck today. No calcium oxalate crystals. He’s back to struvites. No UTI. No infection so they’re sterile stuvites. Stopping all supplements and putting him on Purina Pro Plan UR which has a s/o profile like Royal Canin. He won’t eat water soaked kibble. Is also picky abt kibble soaked in unsalted chicken stock. He goes out to urinate every 2-3 hours. There is fresh water everywhere. Let’s see how his next follow up goes. Paws crossed.

[anonymously]

@ Maureen W,

http://bichonhealth.org/HealthInfo/UrinaryStones.htm (excerpts from article below)
“It has long been recognized that some Bichons Frises have a predisposition to formation of urinary stones (uroliths). This condition is known as urolithiasis. There are several types of stones that can form in the bladder, with struvite (also called magnesium triple phosphate or “infection” stones) and calcium oxalate being the most common in Bichons”.
“The most important preventative for stone formation is free access to fresh water. For a dog predisposed to stone formation, there are other considerations as well”.
“This article is intended to provide the pet owner with a better understanding of the prevention and treatment of urinary stones. Good veterinary treatment is the most reliable resource for the ongoing care of your dog. You may wish to copy this article for your veterinarian”.
“Key Point: It is not yet possible to dissolve calcium oxalate uroliths by dietary management”.
“However, compliance with feeding special diets and avoiding use of certain drugs will minimize
risk factors known to be associated with calcium oxalate urolith formation”.

[anonymously]

What does a prescription food have to do with his age? I don’t understand.
Ask your vet, but I believe a medical condition takes priority. Just add a little cooked chopped up chicken breast to it (for example) if you want more protein.

Supplements, if they do anything at all, depend on the type of stones your dog is making.
I give my dog this item, but I have cut down to only 2 tabs a day. I am not sure it does anything, but I keep giving it just in case it is helping….his struvite cleared up after antibiotics and increase in water, calcium oxalate stones are a different story (genetic).
K-Plus™ Potassium Citrate Plus Cranberry

[anonymously]

Did you check the search engine here? /forums/search/bladder+stones/

Excerpts from previous posts:

As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

The x-ray is important, but once she is stable for about 1 year, ask the vet if you can skip the x-rays and testing urine PH as long as she is urinating normally and having no difficulty? Ask him the warning signs to look for. You didn’t mention her age?

I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
In fact, I just took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work was good”.

“I was afraid the vet would want to do x-rays and test his urine…..but he said as long as he is not having symptoms we are not going there (he’s too old to tolerate another surgery)”
“I do monitor his urination habits and check for normal flow, stream, amount. If I note any discomfort I will take him to the vet”.

“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones.

“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently.
I went along with the prescription diet for almost a year, since then he has been on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble soaked with water +, I use the wet food too, but the canned foods seem so greasy to me”…

PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.

[anonymously]

Excerpts from previous posts:

As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

The x-ray is important, but once she is stable for about 1 year, ask the vet if you can skip the x-rays and testing urine PH as long as she is urinating normally and having no difficulty? Ask him the warning signs to look for. You didn’t mention her age?

I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
In fact, I just took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work was good”.

“I was afraid the vet would want to do x-rays and test his urine…..but he said as long as he is not having symptoms we are not going there (he’s too old to tolerate another surgery)”
“I do monitor his urination habits and check for normal flow, stream, amount. If I note any discomfort I will take him to the vet”.

“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones.

“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently.
I went along with the prescription diet for almost a year, since then he has been on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble soaked with water +, I use the wet food too, but the canned foods seem so greasy to me”…

PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.

[3pupmom]

Good afternoon. My apologies for the length of this post. My Miniature Schnauzer Ninja was dx w/struvite crystals in Sept. I took him to vet to get some Metro for his yucky diarrhea & it turns out he had a raging UTI, his liver function was out of whack plus pancreatitis all at once. He was hospitalized for 2days, xrays showed no stones and he came home w/antibiotics. I think clavamox. 1 month later at his recheck, ph was 7 still has struvites in his urine plus some rbc/wbc but no infection (vet did a culture). 2nd recheck in Nov ph was 5.5, no struvites, but now he has calcium oxalate crystals. In Sept, before the hospitalization, Ninja was on Canidae All Stages only. When he came home I started him on THK Halcyon, the duck formulation, with a little of the Canidae. After the Oct followup I started him on VetriScience UT strength supplements which contains D-Mannose & Cranberry Extract and switched the kibble to Nature’s Domain Turkey. I was going to add Vitamin C supplements but now after the Nov followup with his urinary ph being 5.5 my vet said not to. I’ve now completely cut kibble out of his diet & he’s on 1/3cup THK only with 3/4cup water to rehydrate twice per day. I give him a 1/2 cup of unsalted broth (23mg sodium) mid-day and there’s plenty of fresh/clean water throughout the house which he barely touches. I’m putting a little bit of white rice in his food/broth to entice him to eat/drink. 2weeks ago I switched from the VetriScience UT Strength to UT Stat. He goes back for another recheck on 12/18. He’s 5years old & this has never been an issue before. Since Sept the vet has been suggesting Royal Canin SO. It’s garbage food & I’d rather not feed that. I’m at a loss at this point. Any suggestions on a different supplement?

[crazy4cats]

Hi Jo D-
The RC S/O diet should only be prescribed for struvite crystals. It helps acidify his urine which helps dissolve the crystals. If he has calcium oxalate crystals, he would need a diet that makes the urine more alkaline to help stop the formation of anymore. My understanding is that they cannot be dissolved, but may be able to flushed out with a lot of moisture added to the diet.

You have your hands full. Good luck!

Edit: I’m sorry, I think I may be incorrect about the RC s/o. It actually may be for both struvite and oxalate crystals. I’ts the Hill’s c/d that acidifies the urine. I think the s/o neutralizes the ph levels and salt is added to promote thirst encouraging the dog to drink more and flush the crystals out. Either way, it is best to add as much moisture to your dog’s diet to rid of either type of crystal.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by crazy4cats.

[Jo D]

I first need to clarify, that he actually was diagnosed with calcium oxalate stones, and NOT struvite stones. But yes, he has been on the Royal Canin SO ever since his surgery in 2012. I have started him on the canned SO, to go along with some of the dry SO for now, until I can figure out what to do. If he had the stones, and not the cancer, or if he had cancer and not the stones, this wouldn’t be such a difficult issue to handle. The problem is, I can feed him a great diet for the cancer, but end up making his bladder stones worse. The oncologist did not refer me to a nutritionist. Actually, none of the vets I’ve seen for Bandit have said anything about a nutritionist.

[anonymously]

I meant to say I used Royal Canin So for a dog with bladder stones (hx of both struvite and oxalate).
I used Royal Canin Renal support for my dog that had kidney damage.

Both times the food agreed with them and no adverse effects were noted. Once the dogs were stable (after at least a year) I made changes in their diets under the supervision of their veterinarians. However, the dog with kidney damage stayed on the prescription food for the remainder of her life and did as well as could be expected.

[anonymously]

Okay, so, soaking the kibble overnight in water, adding a spoonful of topper, more water, should work. What foods did he say were okay? Let’s see the list.
Check Nutrisca and Salmon and Chickpea http://www.chewy.com/dog/dogswell-nutrisca-grain-free-salmon/dp/35031

If your vet is recommending prescription food, I would go along with it for now at least until the dog is stable, then discuss options.

Per the search engine here: Check out my posts. /forums/search/bladder+stones/

PS: Take the dogs out frequently for bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate. Keep the bladder flushed, stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to struvite and calcium oxalate development.

[anonymously]

PS: If the x-ray is negative, she may just have struvite. These crystals often clear up after antibiotics to treat the infection, special diet and increase in water intake. Frequent bathroom breaks.
Calcium oxalate are a little more concerning. But, there are meds and procedures to get rid of them, other than surgery (depending on the dog’s condition). Dogs can have both.

[anonymously]

Check the search engine here: /forums/search/bladder+stones/page/2/
As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

The x-ray is important, but once she is stable for about 1 year, ask the vet if you can skip the x-rays and testing urine PH as long as she is urinating normally and having no difficulty? Ask him the warning signs to look for. You didn’t mention her age?

I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

Below is a previous post of mine:
“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
In fact, I just took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work was good”.

“I was afraid the vet would want to do x-rays and test his urine…..but he said as long as he is not having symptoms we are not going there (he’s too old to tolerate another surgery)”
“I do monitor his urination habits and check for normal flow, stream, amount. If I note any discomfort I will take him to the vet”.

“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones.

“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently.
I went along with the prescription diet for almost a year, since then he has been on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble soaked with water +, I use the wet food too, but the canned foods seem so greasy to me”…

PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by anonymously.

[Anonymous]

Check the search engine (home page on this site) for bladder stones, struvite, calcium oxalate, those are the most common types of stones for dogs, maybe you can find some helpful information…..but it is best to run things by the vet before making changes.

Gradual weight gain is better, you don’t want rapid weight gain, it will stress her system.
Best of luck

PS: As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

Ask him if you can skip the x-rays and testing urine PH as long as she is urinating normally and having no difficulty? Ask him the warning signs to look for.
Ask the vet if Wysong senior kibble soaked in water overnight with water added and a lean meat topper such as cooked chicken breast chopped up is okay? That’s what my guy likes.

I would comply with the prescription food for now, unless your vet advises differently. If your vet okays that you can add something tasty to it, it might make a big difference.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by Anonymous.

[Anonymous]

My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
In fact, I just took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work was good.

I was afraid the vet would want to do x-rays and test his urine…..but he said as long as he is not having symptoms we are not going there (he’s too old to tolerate another surgery)
I do monitor his urination habits and check for normal flow, stream, amount. If I note any discomfort I will take him to the vet.

There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones. My guy is a peke. Did your vet have the stones tested?

Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently.
I went along with the prescription diet for almost a year, since then he has been on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble soaked with water +, I use the wet food too, but the canned foods seem so greasy to me…

[crazy4cats]

Jeanenne-
Sorry to hear about your situation. I have only experienced crystals with one of my cats and it was a frightening experience. He had a blockage and spent three days at an emergency clinic. Luckily he survived. I did feed him the Rx food afterwards and slowly weaned him off over an eight month period. I was so worried it would happen again.

Sounds like the vet is recommending the Royal Canin SO partly due to the fact that they are not sure if they are struvite, oxalate, or another type of stones yet. Royal Canin helps prevent both as it is lower in magnesium and has ingredients that promote urination. If they are struvite crystals, most often Hill’s c/d or s/d is recommended due to it’s ability to dissolve the crystals by making the pH more acidic. Oxalate type cannot be dissolved. They need to either be flushed out or surgically removed. Either way, more moisture and opportunities to urinate are very important to keep the crystals flushed out of the urinary tract.

Honestly, reading that you regularly feed Beneful, I think that the Royal Canin is a step up anyway. In my opinion, you can still give your dog the fruit and vegetable treats as long as you keep them to 20% or less of his diet. I have read a ton about crystals, but admittedly mostly the feline variety. But, one of the biggest factors that they are learning is that they are often brought on by stress or anxiety for cats. I would venture to guess that there could be some correlation in dogs as well. You mentioned that you just moved and that could have brought on some stress. Our pets don’t like too many changes in their routines. My cat had his emergency right after we got back from vacation. I don’t think my son was very good at keeping him on his routine and he had some separation anxiety.

After the stones are analyzed and you know what you are dealing with, maybe you could talk to your vet about being referred to a vet nutritionist. There is also a website called Balance IT, that helps people with pets that have health conditions formulate a specialized diet. Your vet might not know that you are willing to take on that task.

In the mean time, I would try to get your dog to eat the Royal Canin. Preferably the canned if you can. Increase the water intake and potty breaks. And, if possible, maybe you could increase to feeding three times per day. That is another change that I made that seems to be helping. Three smaller meals rather than two. That helps to keep their pH levels more consistent.

I wish you well!

[Anonymous]

Been there and back. I just took my 15 year old guy in for a geriatric checkup, his labwork is better than mine. He does have some age related issues.

He has no symptoms of UTIs or stones, I watch him urinate, normal flow, amount, no difficulty. So the vet said no need for x-rays or testing this and that, UNLESS HE HAS SYMPTOMS.

He had bladder stones, struvite and oxalate, emergency surgery in 2011. I put him on that food you mentioned, it was okay….but then I always added a little cooked chicken to it.
The vets wanted to x-ray him every 3 months, I went along with it a couple of times, when they saw a couple of small stones had returned and offered no treatment? I didn’t follow up.

He prefers Wysong senior or Nutrisca salmon and chickpea, wet food is probably better. However, I use kibble and soak it overnight in water, plus add water and a bite of cooked chicken, 4 small meals per day, offer frequent bathroom breaks. Water, and frequent bathroom breaks are very important, keep the bladder flushed.

If you click on my user name you will find posts/threads related to bladder stones, or use the search engine.
I am reluctant to discuss supplements anymore, because it depends on the type of stones your dog has as to what might be helpful. Therefore it is best to ask your vet for recommendations.

PS: Next time it says you are not logged in , try the refresh button.

[Bobby dog]

c4c:
Good info to have about potassium citrate use decreasing chances of calcium oxalate stone formation, not struvite, by increasing urine alkalinity.

Here’s some links to info on supplements and struvite & calcium oxalate uroliths:
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/depts/minnesotaurolithcenter/recommendations/home.html
http://www.vetstreet.com/dl-methionine-rx
http://www.vetstreet.com/potassium-citrate-supplement

[crazy4cats]

LM-
I agree that the calcium oxalate stones are more concerning than struvite in either dogs or cats as they cannot be dissolved. They have to be either flushed out or surgically removed. I am just pointing out, just like the link that you posted from Entirely Pets, that potassium citrate is ONLY for the treatment of oxalate stones, not struvite. It increases the pH in both dogs and cats, not lowers it. It would be detrimental to a dog or cat with struvite stones. The poster stated that his dog had struvite stones, not calcium oxalate. In fact, the topic of this thread is bladder STRUVITE stones.

[crazy4cats]

I agree with everything you have said. One should seek and follow the advice of a vet in this situation. But I stand by the fact that potassium citrate makes the urine less acidic and is used to reduce the risk of calcium oxalate stones. This poster specifically stated that their dog had struvite stones and made no mention of an infection. In this case, potassium citrate would not be recommended. Typically, in the case is struvite stones or crystals, the urine needs to be more acidic, not less.
Sounds like in your situation, it is beneficial and I am very glad that your dog is doing well with its diet.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by crazy4cats.

[Anonymous]

http://www.entirelypets.com/k-plus-potassium-citrate-plus-cranberry-300-tabs.html?cmp=nextag&mr:referralID=2b34b4bd-6c95-11e2-b779-001b2166c62d

All I know is that it appears to be working for my dog, he had both struvite and calcium oxalate stones. He has not had a recurrence since his surgery (2011) he turns 15 next month. I listened to the advice of a veterinarian.

DL-Methionine is a prescription medication that I am not familiar with, my vet told me to try the potassium citrate supplements first. After testing a few times his ph lowered nicely. I still think increased water is the key.

For dogs, calcium oxalate stones are more concerning than struvite, often the struvite clears up when the infection (antibiotics) is eliminated and increased water is added to the diet.

The treatment for cats is different than for dogs, that’s why it is important to work with a veterinarian regarding treatment choices. Not a DIY

Articles are not always correct, neither is information shared on the internet, I take it all with a grain of salt.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Carrie-
I’m not sure if you read my comment on your other thread, but I sort of hit on that very subject. Lol! I was assuming they were struvite crystals due to vet suggesting the s/d food, but then started to wonder if you really knew if they were or not. If they are oxalate, the food will not dissolve and maybe even cause harm. I’m glad you are getting them removed. After experiencing a blockage, I wouldn’t want any other pet to go through it! Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Carrie-
Do you know for sure if the stones are oxalate or struvite? I was assuming they were struvite in the other thread due to the fact that the vet wanted you to feed the Hill’s s/d prescription food. You probably know this, but just want to make sure. Only struvite crystals and stones can be dissolved. The oxalate stones cannot and can only be surgically removed. If you feed the s/d food and nothing happens, then the stones are most likely oxalate and the s/d food could be harmful rather than helpful. Good luck to you!

[Anonymous]

My dog had struvite and calcium oxalate stones. The only tip I have for you is add water to his food, take him out for frequent bathroom breaks, keep the bladder flushed.
Check Wysong, they have a good selection, plus a prescription food. Not cheap, but good quality. Ask your vet if it’s an option: http://www.wysong.net/veterinarian/
Wysong Rx Urinary™ (kidney, urinary health, and struvite)
(Replaces: Nephreon™, Uratrar™, and Struvatrol™)

Ask your vet about potassium citrate tablets?

[Anonymous]

/forums/topic/calcium-oxalate-crystals-help/

/forums/topic/struvite-crystals/

Two threads you may find helpful.

[Anonymous]

If he has struvite crystals in his urine, even though they have not formed stones, they are as sharp as glass and can irritate and inflame the bladder. Struvite is usually caused by infection, hence the antibiotic treatment.
Read through the posts in this thread and see what applies to your situation.

If you are not happy with the way things are going with the traditional veterinarians, consider consulting a homeopath…. http://theavh.org/

Distance is not an issue, many of them do phone consults.

PS: I would not stop any antibiotic treatment that has been started without talking to the prescribing veterinarian first.
Maybe he can explain the different opinions, and his rationale for treatment. Ask him for a diagnosis. Struvite or calcium oxalate? Ask him if there is a genetic component.
Another option, if you want to stay with the traditional veterinarians, ask for a referral to a specialist…

[Anonymous]

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_struvite_bladder_stones.html

“Struvite stones form in urine with a high pH (alkaline urine), diets should help to maintain a low pH (acidic urine). Diets with animal-based protein sources are most important in maintaining an acidic pH, while
vegetarian or cereal-based diets are more likely to cause and alkaline urine”.

“With Calcium Oxalate stones, a high protein diet can cause stones by increasing calcium in the urine. It lowers urinary pH and can increase uric acid. High quantities of animal protein can contribute to stone formation by increasing urinary calcium and oxalic acid excreting and by decreasing urinary citric acid excretion”.

“You should increase your dog’s water consumption to help dilute the urine. You can do this by adding water to your dog’s food, it should look like wet mush. Avoid table scraps when caring for an oxalate stone-forming dog”.

“Depending on the kind of stone, you either want more, or less protein, and lower in fat (3 -8%). Be sure to check with your veterinarian before changing your dog’s diet”.

[Anonymous]

Did you see this thread? /forums/topic/struvite-crystals/page/6/#post-69601

My dog had both type of stones, actually the calcium oxalate type are more concerning.
I saw the show and bought the t-shirt, so to speak, lol

PS: Does your dog have struvite or calcium oxalate? Or both? It makes a difference, regarding your diet choices for him.

[Anonymous]

I mentioned in 2 previous posts in this thread what has helped my dog, he has not had a recurrence in in 4 years and is 14 years old. He had a uti, was treated and then ultrasound revealed both type of stones, he required emergency surgery.

Your dog seems kind of young for this problem. Ask the vet if she is at risk due to her breed? Was she spayed recently? Is this a complication of that surgery? The UTIs, vaginitis? Is she going into heat?
Ask if potassium citrate/cranberry tablets would help?

Increased water, add it to the food is a must, my dog laps it up to get to the food (4 small meals per day). Frequent bathroom breaks, keep things flowing.
Ask the vet if she has struvite or calcium oxalate stones? Or both? An ultrasound is a good idea.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_struvite_bladder_stones.html

“Struvite stones form in urine with a high pH (alkaline urine), diets should help to maintain a low pH (acidic urine). Diets with animal-based protein sources are most important in maintaining an acidic pH, while
vegetarian or cereal-based diets are more likely to cause and alkaline urine”.

“With Calcium Oxalate stones, a high protein diet can cause stones by increasing calcium in the urine. It lowers urinary pH and can increase uric acid. High quantities of animal protein can contribute to stone formation by increasing urinary calcium and oxalic acid excreting and by decreasing urinary citric acid excretion”.

“Your should increase your dog’s water consumption to help dilute the urine. You can do this by adding water to your dog’s food, it should look like wet mush. Avoid table scraps when caring for an oxalate stone-forming dog”.

“Depending on the kind of stone, you either want more, or less protein, and lower in fat (3 -8%). Be sure to check with your veterinarian before changing your dog’s diet”.

PS: Vaccinations should only be given to healthy dogs.
http://vitalanimal.com/vaccinations-consider-carefully/

• This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by Anonymous.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Corey-

I’m sorry to hear of your dog’s troubles with stones. While I have no oxalate stones experience, I do with the struvites. But, I have read about the oxalate a bit when doing reserch on the struvite crystals due to my cat’s blockage.

I have learned with any type of crystals or stones, it is best to get the most moisture in their diet as possible. And they also need plenty of opportunities to pee. I would try to feed as much canned or raw food to your pup as possible. Some vet therapeutic diets actually add salt to encourage the dogs to drink more water to dilute their urine as much as possible. Another thing that has been mentioned with trying to keep the pH levels stable is that it is best to feed a few smaller meals throughout the day rather than one or two large meals. Also minimize the amount of calcium being fed to your dog.

At least the struvites can be dissolved with some types of vet foods, but the other types of stones and crystals cannot. So it is best to prevent them to begin with. Here is a site that has some decent information on it. Good luck! http://www.2ndchance.info/oxalatedog.htm

[Mary S]

I do not know about stone formation – you may want to check Dr. Karen Becker’s web site, part of Dr. Mercola’s web site. http://www.mercola.com Type in those key words, e.g., struvite crystals, calcium oxalate stones, oxalate, oxalate stones, something may come up.

You are correct with the low protein levels. That is what I am looking for too. My vet has asked me to reduce the protein level 30/70. I need to supplement something other than potato. My dog has a severe allergy to it. I believe my next choice to cut the protein will be pumpkin or sweet potato. (Presently, I’m feeding Purina’s Beyond, Grain Free, Wild Caught Tuna and Egg Recipe. Right now it is the only thing she can eat that doesn’t cause a major skin out break. The protein is too high which causes her to wet the bet constantly. Yes, she has been on Blue Buffalo and etc. with no luck or the protein is too high.)

Good luck with your quest.

[Corey K]

I’m looking to see if anyone has ever had any experience with a dog with severe urinary issues. My dog is 4 years old and has had issues with crystals in his urine and utis. His crystals have been struvite and urates. For the urates it was recommended that he eat the prescription UD. In Dec however he got blocked and had to have surgery. The craziest part of this is that he had 8 stones removed and we were sure they would be urate stones but they were 100% calcium oxalate stones. He needs low protein for the urates but should not have soy or oats or brown rice etc for the Calc oxalate so I’m at a complete loss as to what to feed him!

[InkedMarie]

Hi Courtney,
I had a dog with frequent UTI’s and he was diagnosed with struvite crystals. My vet had me give him one 500 mg vitamin C a day but you don’t do this without your vets okay. It is extremely important to get enough liquid into your dog. Dry food is the worst you can feed. Best is a raw diet, canned or dehydrated. If you must feed dry, add canned & water to his food.
Don’t worry about low oxalate foods unless it’s needed. I would not use a prescription food at all. If your vet tells you to, I’d find a holistic vet to go to and get their advice. Keep us posted on how she is.

[K6RBS]

Our 6 year old pug has a history of struvite bladder stones and following surgery to remove them she spent a year on Canine C/D. She recently developed a UTI and while diagnosing that the vet found that she had stones again. He put her on antibiotics and Canine S/D (to try to dissolve the stones). When the lab tests came back they showed that the stones were actually calcium oxalate and therefore could not be dissolved. By then she was fully on the S/D food (which she loved). The following day she started vomiting, became lethargic and shows signs of severe distress.

The diagnosis was pancreatitis, triggered by the high fat content of the S/D food.
5 days (and many $$$$ later) she is slowly recovering and we need to find a food that is low in fat (< 10%) yet unlikely to add to the calcium oxalate stone problem.

Ideas are welcome.

Thanks.

[Mom2Cavs]

First, let me say that I’m not a vet. But, I would suggest a visit to your vet to determine the type of crystals and to see if there is an infection present. There are different types of crystals and treatments vary. Struvite crystals seem to form if there is an infection, but Oxalate crystals are a different matter. There are also other types. One thing is certain, though, and that a dog that is prone to uti’s or crytals needs lots of moisture in the diet. Moisture is actually good in any animal’s diet, imho. If I were you, after speaking to my vet, I would check into 4-5 star, high quality foods. Whether you feed all canned, regular raw or freeze dried raw that’s been rehydrated, or kibble topped with wet food of sime kind (either of the above mentioned or wholesome people food) moisture is necessary to help flush out the kidneys. If you feed only kibble, then I would still add water or no-sodium/low-sodium broth to it. There are also supplements that might help with urinary issues like cranberry, vit. C, omega 3’s etc. Again, I would ask your vet for recommendations. There are also regular posters here that have had dogs with kidney issues from birth that may post with some great suggestions. Good luck to you and I hope this helps!