[anonymous]

Try the search engine here, under sign in, upper right, type in “calcium oxalate” or bladder stones”
From a previous post:
Increasing water intake helps with all types of bladder stones, frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate. Keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to stone formation.
Maybe 3 small meals per day with water added, they just lap it up to get to the food. In fact, I would also pre-soak the kibble overnight in the fridg.
Increase activity, walks, reduce weight (if overweight).
For stubborn cases like your dogs, there are prescription medications the vet may recommend. I might consider consulting a Veterinary Internal Medicine Specialist.

[anonymous]

/forums/search/calcium+oxalate/
From a previous post:
Increasing water intake helps with all types of bladder stones, frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate. Keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to stone formation.
Maybe 3 small meals per day with water added, they just lap it up to get to the food. In fact, I would also pre-soak the kibble overnight in the fridg.
Increase activity, walks, reduce weight (if overweight).
For stubborn cases like your dogs, there are prescription medications the vet may recommend.

[anonymous]

Did you check the search engine ? /forums/search/calcium+oxalate/
I imagine your dog will have to be on a special diet for the rest of his life, I would go by whatever food your vet is recommending. I have used the Royal Canin SO in the past with good results.
Increasing water intake helps with all types of bladder stones, frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate. Keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to stone formation.
Maybe 3 small meals per day with water added, they just lap it up to get to the food. In fact, I would also pre-soak the kibble overnight in the fridg.
Increase activity, walks, reduce weight (if overweight).
For stubborn cases like your dogs, there are prescription medications the vet may recommend. I might consider consulting a Veterinary Internal Medicine Specialist.

[anonymous]

Check the search engine, example: /forums/search/calcium+oxalate/

Excerpts from previous posts:
As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.
I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.
“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones”.
“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently”.
PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.
Don’t add supplements unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined the dog.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry

[anonymous]

Your dog may have more than 1 type of stones, my dog had both struvite and calcium oxalate, there is a genetic component, some dogs have a predisposition to develop them.
I think the confusion you are having is that you are listening to homeopathic views (the nutritionist) versus the traditional veterinarian. The two will never agree. I prefer science based veterinary medicine. I would be inclined to listen to your vet and do what he recommends, prescription food and all, you can always add something to it with your vet’s approval. Once the dog is stable, you can re-evaluate diet options.

Did you check the search engine here /forums/search/struvite/
Water, water, and more water.
Frequent bathroom breaks. Otherwise, consult a Veterinary Internal Medicine Specialist.
The food can only do so much, most supplements are crap.
The PH strips are a joke, go to your vet every 3 months to check (urine sample).
Even with dietary changes, a change in the PH won’t show up for a month or two (this is what my vet told me).
Also, walk the dog more, get the extra weight off. Two meals a day, measured amounts, no snacks. No free feeding. If need be, 3 small meals per day.
PS: Nothing wrong with prescription dog food. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/07/more-nonsense-from-holistic-vets-about-commercial-therapeutic-diets/

[anonymous]

From a previous post:

Increased water, add it to the food is a must, my dog laps it up to get to the food (4 small meals per day). Frequent bathroom breaks, keep things flowing.
Ask the vet if she has struvite or calcium oxalate stones? Or both? An ultrasound is a good idea.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_struvite_bladder_stones.html
“Struvite stones form in urine with a high pH (alkaline urine), diets should help to maintain a low pH (acidic urine). Diets with animal-based protein sources are most important in maintaining an acidic pH, while
vegetarian or cereal-based diets are more likely to cause and alkaline urine”.
“With Calcium Oxalate stones, a high protein diet can cause stones by increasing calcium in the urine. It lowers urinary pH and can increase uric acid. High quantities of animal protein can contribute to stone formation by increasing urinary calcium and oxalic acid excreting and by decreasing urinary citric acid excretion”.
“Your should increase your dog’s water consumption to help dilute the urine. You can do this by adding water to your dog’s food, it should look like wet mush. Avoid table scraps when caring for an oxalate stone-forming dog”.
“Depending on the kind of stone, you either want more, or less protein, and lower in fat (3 -8%). Be sure to check with your veterinarian before changing your dog’s diet”.

[anonymous]

Did you check the search engine here? /forums/search/bladder+stones/
Excerpts from previous posts:
As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.
I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.
“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones”.
“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently”.
PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.
Don’t add supplements unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined the dog.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry

[anonymous]

Below is an excerpt from: http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-health-information/article/animal-health/calcium-oxalate-bladder-stones-in-dogs/5895

How can I prevent my dog from developing calcium oxalate bladder stones in the future?

Dogs that have developed calcium oxalate bladder stones in the past will often be fed a therapeutic diet for life. Diets that promote less-acidic and more dilute urine are recommended. Most dogs should be fed a canned or wet diet to encourage water consumption. Dilute urine with a low urine specific gravity (Urine Specific Gravity or USpG less than 1.020) is an important part of the prevention of calcium oxalate bladder stones. In certain cases, medications to lower the urinary pH such as potassium citrate may be required. If the dog is fed a home prepared diet, Vitamin B6 is often added as a supplement.  Dogs that repeatedly develop calcium oxalate bladder stones without high blood calcium levels may benefit from hydrochlorothiazide treatment.
Dogs diagnosed with calcium oxalate stones should avoid calcium supplements unless specifically advised by your veterinarian. They should not be fed high oxalate foods such as chocolate, nuts, rhubarb, beets, green beans, and spinach.
In addition, careful routine monitoring of the urine to detect any signs of bacterial infection is also recommended. Bladder x-rays and urinalysis will typically be performed one month after treatment and then every three to six months for the remainder of the dog’s life. Dogs displaying any clinical signs such as frequent urination, urinating in unusual places, painful urination or the presence of blood in the urine should be evaluated immediately. Unfortunately, calcium oxalate stones have a somewhat high rate of recurrence, despite careful attention to diet and lifestyle.
This client information sheet is based on material written by: Ernest Ward, DVM

[Pam V]

I am looking for a low oxalate / low fat diet for my 6 lb Yorkie who recently had surgery to remove bladder stones that were calcium oxalate stones.

Initially the vet recommended Royal Canin SO, but this food appears to be too high in fat and it left her lethargic with runny stools. Prior to this she was on Royal Canin Low Fat GI and she stayed regular on this and seemed to have no problem although I think it left her hungry because she was always looking for treats. This was a reason why the vet had suggested vegetable treats like carrots, broccoli etc. Now I wonder if the carrots contributed to the stones.

If there was the perfect commercial canned food on the market one with no sweet potatoes, no soy, no carrots etc that is also low fat I would like to know. I am open to preparing a homemade diet also but so far I’m finding it quite a puzzle. Most of the recipes look complicated and many have high oxalate ingredients.

Thanks, Pam

[anonymous]

I hope you will listen to the vet that examined and diagnosed your dog. Bladder stones are a potentially life threatening condition. A blocked urethra can result in emergency surgery.
Calcium oxalate stones don’t just go away. They won’t know for sure what type of stones he has till they get them out of there and analyze them.
In my opinion the vet is focused on trying to help the dog and prevent more pain and infection.
PS: They can have more than one type of stone, my dog had struvite and calcium oxalate, struvite cleared up with antibiotics but the calcium oxalates required surgery.

[anonymous]

My dog had struvite and calcium oxalate stones. It started when he was 11, he had surgery 1 time. He passed away recently at age 16 (due to an unrelated condition)

I would go by what the veterinarian that is treating your dog advises. Prescription food and all.

[anonymously]

Did you check the search engine here? /forums/search/bladder+stones/

Excerpts from previous posts:

As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.

“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones”.

“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently”.

PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.

Don’t add supplements unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined the dog.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry

PS: Start brushing the teeth once a day, see YouTube for how to videos, small breeds tend to have lousy teeth.

[anonymously]

Some dogs have a genetic predisposition to develop calcium oxalate bladder stones.

“Foods that are high in oxalates usually include plant-based products, such as vegetables, advises Dr. Ron Hines of 2ndChance.info. Avoid feeding Fido foods high in oxalates if your dog has been diagnosed with calcium oxalate stones in the past because they can contribute to their formation.
These include beets, carrots, celery, kale, okra, spinach and collard greens, according to the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Organ meats like liver and sardines are also high in oxalates, as are foods that are naturally dangerous to dogs like chocolate, nuts and grapes. Other high-oxalate ingredients include corn and soy, along with the ingredients derived from them, according to Dr. Hines.”
Above is an excerpt from: http://dogcare.dailypuppy.com/foods-cause-oxalate-stones-6238.html

[NIR S]

My dog had 3 times surgery to remove calcium oxalate stones from his urine system.

i wonder which food should i gave him now, i know there is u/d by hills and urinary by royal canin whats the best option for him to reduce the chnaces that the stones will back again.

Thanks

[anonymously]

If you reread my post you will see that is not what I said at all. No biggie, we all misinterpret things from time to time. Hope this helps.

From the link to my post that you referenced: /forums/topic/food-for-dog-with-silica-stones/#post-83704
“Check out Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea at Chewy.com”
“My dog has a history of struvite and calcium oxalate stones and does well on it, no reoccurrence in bladder stones in almost 5 years now. I add water and offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate. Keep the bladder flushed”

“I have also used prescription food recommended by the vet with good results”.

PS: I think we are all offering opinions, no one is here in a professional capacity. I see a lot of opinions I don’t agree with, but, I don’t say a word. Unless I think the advice may cause harm…but even then, I try not to respond, as I assume the pet owner will consult a professional for any serious issues.

[anonymously]

If the dog continues to have urinary tract infections, there may be more to it.
Did the veterinarian suggest an x-ray? That is the only way to tell if there are bladder stones irritating the bladder causing recurrent urinary tract infections.
Also, they can have more than one type of stone and calcium oxalates don’t dissolve.

That’s what happened to my dog, he would be treated with antibiotics be okay for a few months then the infection returned. He ended up at the 24/7 vet, got x-rayed and required emergency surgery 4 years ago.
So, in retrospect I would have had the x-ray done sooner, the antibiotics are just a temporary fix.

Regarding the comments about vets and nutrition, no one is here in a professional capacity. Opinions are being offered, that’s all they are.

By homework if you mean Dr Google, then I would be leery of the information you gather. There is a lot of inaccurate information on the internet. Dogs that have a history of bladder stones should be on a special diet for the rest of their lives.

I lean toward Science-based Veterinary Medicine. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

[anonymously]

Please check the search engine here for “struvite” “bladder stones” or click on my avatar and read my posts on this subject , this topic comes up about once a week.
However, I am not a veterinarian, so please check with your vet before making any changes to your dog’s treatment.
I wouldn’t mess with supplements, keep the diet simple.
There are prescription meds that your vet could subscribe after surgery if her condition is stubborn. I would ask about that.

Example: /forums/search/struvite/

There is NO magic supplement. The trick is to add water to each meal 3-4 small meals per day soaked in water, don’t measure, just fill the small bowl, the dog will lap it up to get to the food.
The dog must be taken out to void (pee) ideally every 2 hours during the day. At bedtime and first thing in the morning. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to stone formation.
There is nothing wrong with Royal Canin Urinary SO. If you get the dry, soak it in water overnight then add water too. Once the dog is stable, few months to a year, you can talk to your vet about adding something tasty to the prescription food, like cooked chopped up chicken breast or some other lean meat.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry

Excerpts from previous posts:

As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
In fact, I just took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work was good”.

“I was afraid the vet would want to do x-rays and test his urine…..but he said as long as he is not having symptoms we are not going there (he’s too old to tolerate another surgery)”
“I do monitor his urination habits and check for normal flow, stream, amount. If I note any discomfort I will take him to the vet”.

“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones.

“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently.
I went along with the prescription diet for almost a year, since then he has been on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble soaked with water +, I use the wet food too”
PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.

PS: If he is overweight or inactive, start taking her for daily walks, that helps too.

[alexis w]

my puppy doesnt actually have any problems with stones i just had gotten the info about the kale and saw that mixed breeds are prone to getting the calcium oxalate stones so i figured i would share the info

[alexis w]

so what i am gathering from this is it is ok to use foods with calcium oxalate in it as long as it is in moderation and the dog gets plenty of water to flush the system and also watch the amount of veggies in the food in general, more meat less veggies. so basically i need to cut back on the veggies in my recipes or add some extra meat(which would just make it a larger recipe). since i only use a cup of kale for over a weeks worth of food and only use that recipe once a month it should be fine.

[Cannoli]

“These include beets, carrots, celery, kale, okra, spinach and collard greens, according to the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Organ meats like liver and sardines are also high in oxalates,”

I feed my dog fresh baked sardines and liver.

But you blurb is not 100 percent accurate because the exact cause of of calcium oxalate bladder stones is poorly understood at this time.

this disease is not common in all breeds some breeds are more predisposed to it

[anonymously]

I posted this before in another thread, thought someone might find it helpful.: /forums/topic/thoughts-on-the-amount-of-fruit-veggies/

Some dogs have a genetic predisposition to develop calcium oxalate bladder stones. Something to keep in mind.

“Foods that are high in oxalates usually include plant-based products, such as vegetables, advises Dr. Ron Hines of 2ndChance.info. Avoid feeding Fido foods high in oxalates if your dog has been diagnosed with calcium oxalate stones in the past because they can contribute to their formation. These include beets, carrots, celery, kale, okra, spinach and collard greens, according to the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Organ meats like liver and sardines are also high in oxalates, as are foods that are naturally dangerous to dogs like chocolate, nuts and grapes. Other high-oxalate ingredients include corn and soy, along with the ingredients derived from them, according to Dr. Hines.”
Above is an excerpt from: http://dogcare.dailypuppy.com/foods-cause-oxalate-stones-6238.html

[anonymously]

Age 7 is considered a senior, the vets often recommend an exam and lab work at this stage, if you haven’t done so. Excessive licking and hot spots is an indication that something is wrong, I think a visit to the vet may be in order.
I would discuss diet changes with the vet before taking her off of a prescription food.

“Food Allergies are probably over-diagnosed in dogs (they account for, perhaps 5-10%). Hypoallergenic diets are occasionally, but not frequently, helpful in canine atopy cases but you should always give them a try. Food intolerances are more common – but considerably more likely to result in digestive disturbances and diarrhea that in itching problems”.
http://www.2ndchance.info/Apoquel.htm

Check the search engine here for allergies: /forums/search/allergies/

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=allergies You may find some helpful information at this site.

Regarding bladder stones:
/forums/topic/crystalstone-in-bladder/

Often when the infection is treated (antibiotics) and water intake is increased the condition clears up, unless they have another type of stones, also. They can have more than one type. Often there is a genetic component.

The best thing you can do is to increase water intake and offer frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate. Sure, dogs can hold it, but that’s not good for this condition, You want to keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to stone formation.
PS: Has your dog had an x-ray to rule out calcium oxalate stones?
I use a potassium citrate/cranberry supplement I get from Chewy.com. It depends on the type of stones.
It is best to get approval from the veterinarian that is treating the dog before adding anything, and I would go along with the prescription diet for now. PH levels fluctuate and it takes a while (sometimes weeks) to see changes, at least that is what my vet told me.

you may find this site helpful: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/ Recent blog about cranberry supplements.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/ Regarding raw diets.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by anonymously.

[donald f]

I can tell you from years of personal experience with a mini schnauzer who had calcium/oxalate (CaOx) stones, that if your dog has CaOx stones, you can completely eliminate them and prevent them by searching on the internet for the FuzzerFood diet created by Leslie Bean, and feeding it to your dog. It is a combination of home cooked, low oxalate food (typically chicken, broccoli and rice, and certain inexpensive supplements), easy to prepare in advance and even freeze individual meals. My holistic vet gave me an article out of the Whole Dog Journal that explained all. This protocol gave my Max many years of fun life after already having stones removed surgically by another vet. Going further, join the K9KidneyDiet yahoo group. Leslie posts on that frequently. It is a huge source of support and knowledge by people who live and breath canine chemistry. Its topic are limited to kidney/renal issues and bladder stone issues- both CaOx and struvite stones. I am happy to pdf a copy of the WDJ article to anyone whose dog has an issue with stones. oulalaw13@aol.com
Oh and BTW, the K9Kidney group is ultra critical about commercial “vet” sold foods purporting to be for dogs with stones, and recommends none for stone issues due to other chemicals in the food. Home cooking your dog’s food does take a little more work, but it is SOOO worth it for a dog with recurring stones.

[anonymously]

This must be what you are talking about:
“Supports Struvite Dissolution
Supports urinary health
Increases urine volume to help decrease struvite and calcium oxalate levels
Royal Canin Urinary SO Index® promotes a urinary environment unfavorable to the development of both struvite and calcium oxalate crystals
100% Complete and Balanced Nutrition
100% Satisfaction Guaranteed
Canine Urinary SO Small Dog is a complete and balanced diet specifically designed for small breed adult dogs. It is formulated to aid in the nutritional management of calcium oxalate and struvite urolithiasis.”
– See more at: https://www.royalcanin.com/products/royal-canin-veterinary-diet-canine-urinary-so-small-dog-dry-dog-food-8.8-lb-bag/488488#sthash.XwQ2ioGa.dpuf

[anonymously]

Have you checked the search engine at this site for “bladder stones”

Example: /forums/topic/crystalstone-in-bladder/

Often when the infection is treated (antibiotics) and water intake is increased the condition clears up, unless they have another type of stones, also. They can have more than one type. Often there is a genetic component.

The best thing you can do is to increase water intake and offer frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate. Sure, dogs can hold it, but that’s not good for this condition, You want to keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to stone formation.
PS: Has your dog had an x-ray to rule out calcium oxalate stones?
I use a potassium citrate/cranberry supplement I get from Chewy.com. It depends on the type of stones.
It is best to get approval from the veterinarian that is treating the dog before adding anything, and I would go along with the prescription diet for now. PH levels fluctuate and it takes a while (sometimes weeks) to see changes, at least that is what my vet told me.

you may find this site helpful: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/ Recent blog about cranberry supplements.
I don’t know what you are talking about “So Index”. I would listen to the vet and use the prescription food, just a a bite of something tasty, pre-soak it overnight, a spoonful of plain chicken broth…he’s right, cranberry will not clear up crystals. Antibiotics will, but they will come back if you don’t make necessary changes.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by anonymously.

[anonymously]

PS: Has your dog had an x-ray to rule out calcium oxalate stones?
I use a potassium citrate/cranberry supplement I get from Chewy.com. It depends on the type of stones.
It is best to get approval from the veterinarian that is treating the dog before adding anything, and I would go along with the prescription diet for now. PH levels fluctuate and it takes a while (sometimes weeks) to see changes, at least that is what my vet told me.

[anonymously]

Check out Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea at Chewy.com
My dog has a history of struvite and calcium oxalate stones and does well on it, no reoccurrence in bladder stones in almost 5 years now. I add water and offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate. Keep the bladder flushed.
I have also used prescription food recommended by the vet with good results.

Ingredients
Salmon, Menhaden Fish Meal, Peas, Chickpeas, Salmon Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Pea Fiber, Flaxseed, Calcium Carbonate, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Dried Eggs, Natural Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Carrots, Cranberries, Apricots, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Iron Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Proteinate, Biotin, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Rosemary Extract

[anonymously]

Some dogs have a genetic predisposition to develop calcium oxalate bladder stones. Something to keep in mind.

“Foods that are high in oxalates usually include plant-based products, such as vegetables, advises Dr. Ron Hines of 2ndChance.info. Avoid feeding Fido foods high in oxalates if your dog has been diagnosed with calcium oxalate stones in the past because they can contribute to their formation. These include beets, carrots, celery, kale, okra, spinach and collard greens, according to the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Organ meats like liver and sardines are also high in oxalates, as are foods that are naturally dangerous to dogs like chocolate, nuts and grapes. Other high-oxalate ingredients include corn and soy, along with the ingredients derived from them, according to Dr. Hines.”
Above is an excerpt from: http://dogcare.dailypuppy.com/foods-cause-oxalate-stones-6238.html

[Jaclyn C]

Hello,

This is my first time posting so I apologize if I should have started a new thread. I have read many of these forums, but haven’t found anyone with a similiar case.

My Lhasa Apso is 13 years old. She has had 3 surgeries for bladder stones and despite following all instructions/diet from different vets her entire life, she has them for a 4th time.

The first surgery-stones were struvite and she was already on Urinary SO which wasn’t working. Six months later she had stones again even after continuing the Urinary SO and had to have another surgery. This time they were Calcium Oxalate. Vet said they never seen that happen before. The 3rd time it was Oxalate again and now I have no idea what type they will be, but I am concerned because the last surgery was really hard on her. Her liver level has always been elevated so the last time they couldn’t give her good pain meds so she was in so much pain after the surgery. I can’t stand to see her go through that again. She doesn’t have a UTI and has had the current stones for over a year. The vet said that they are extremely small, so just to keep an eye on them since my dog is acting normal with no crystals in her urine or UTI.

The Urinary SO seems to give my dog bad food allergies, but she has been on it all her life. It obviously hasn’t done anything to help her, but only make her overweight and itchy with dry skin. I have tried multiple vets, all telling me different things more like they are experimenting with her. At this point I am beyond fustrated and don’t know what to do. My dog has other health problems such as a bad cough which won’t go away as well as shaky legs with athritis. She seems happy and tries to play, but I feel like switching her food will help her lose weight which might help with the cough and strain on her legs. I have no clue what food to feed her because all the vets say the reduced calorie Urinary SO or another Urinary prescription diet to treat another type of stone. None of the vets seem to know what to do and and sometimes diagree with each other. Does anyone have any recommendations? At this point I feel like changing foods will help her more than hurt her. Thoughts?

Thank you in advance.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Deborah-
Sorry to hear about your dog’s condition. Is she currently eating the Rx food? If yes, I would caution you on feeding any supplements without clearing them with your vet. They could actually over acidify her pH causing calcium oxalate stones instead, which are even worse because they cannot be dissolved like the Struvite type.

Like you mentioned, water is of the utmost importance along with plenty of bathroom breaks to keep the urine diluted and the bladder clear. Also, after my ordeal with my cat, I started feeding three smaller meals per day to keep the pH level more even.

The Rx food not only helps lower the pH, it also has the proper amount of the magnesium. phosphate and calcium minerals to keep the crystals at bay. I’m assuming you are talking about feeding the kibble, not canned. If yes, have you asked the vet if you could at least supplement with a little canned or fresh foods safely to make the food more appetizing and healthy?

Does your pup have recurrent infections? I was led to believe most of the time crystals and/or stones are associated with uti’s in dogs. And once those are gone, the stones are gone.

There are some really good links on this site on this condition. I’m on my iPad now and don’t know how to post them. If you use the search bar and type Minnesota, you can find a great one from their university on bladder stones. Best wishes!

[anonymously]

“We assumed the grain allergy. However with Cystine stones, he has a genetic defect and cannot process animal protein”.

Don’t assume anything regarding allergies. Unless the dog has been examined and tested by a board certified dermatologist. http://www.acvd.org/

The diets recommended for struvite or calcium oxalate bladder stones may not apply to your dog, the type of stones he has require a specific diet and treatment (like the one your vet recommended).

I would work closely with your veterinarian or find a veterinarian that specializes in Internal Medicine, do you have a veterinary hospital in your area? Your dog has a serious condition, this is not a DIY (imo)
http://www.caninecystinuria.com/Treatment.html http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjotherstones.html#cystine

PS: Have you tried the search engine at this site? Lots of information on “allergies” and “bladder stones”

[anonymously]

Excerpts from previous posts:

As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
In fact, I just took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work was good”.

“I was afraid the vet would want to do x-rays and test his urine…..but he said as long as he is not having symptoms we are not going there (he’s too old to tolerate another surgery)”
“I do monitor his urination habits and check for normal flow, stream, amount. If I note any discomfort I will take him to the vet”.

“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones.

“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently.
I went along with the prescription diet for almost a year, since then he has been on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble soaked with water +, I use the wet food too”
PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by anonymously.

[anonymously]

My dog had both types of stones (struvite and calcium oxalate). I would give no supplements unless approved by the vet that has examined your dog and is treating him.
You could make the situation worse.

It takes weeks (sometimes 2-3 months) to see a change in PH after diet changes and increased water added to the diet, so testing PH at home is not accurate. Just go by what the veterinarian recommends
/forums/search/bladder+stones/.

[3pupmom]

So had another recheck today. No calcium oxalate crystals. He’s back to struvites. No UTI. No infection so they’re sterile stuvites. Stopping all supplements and putting him on Purina Pro Plan UR which has a s/o profile like Royal Canin. He won’t eat water soaked kibble. Is also picky abt kibble soaked in unsalted chicken stock. He goes out to urinate every 2-3 hours. There is fresh water everywhere. Let’s see how his next follow up goes. Paws crossed.

[anonymously]

“My 12 year old lab mix has just been diagnosed with bladder stones and she needs surgery”.
Surgery to remove the established stones could be life saving, a veterinarian would not have recommended surgery if it wasn’t indicated.
Post surgery, regarding calcium oxalate bladder stones:
“It is not yet possible to dissolve calcium oxalate uroliths by dietary management”.
“However, compliance with feeding special diets and avoiding use of certain drugs will minimize risk factors known to be associated with calcium oxalate urolith formation”.

PS: I gave up cable and eating out. If you wait, and the surgery needs to be done on an emergency basis, it will cost even more.

[anonymously]

@ Maureen W,

http://bichonhealth.org/HealthInfo/UrinaryStones.htm (excerpts from article below)
“It has long been recognized that some Bichons Frises have a predisposition to formation of urinary stones (uroliths). This condition is known as urolithiasis. There are several types of stones that can form in the bladder, with struvite (also called magnesium triple phosphate or “infection” stones) and calcium oxalate being the most common in Bichons”.
“The most important preventative for stone formation is free access to fresh water. For a dog predisposed to stone formation, there are other considerations as well”.
“This article is intended to provide the pet owner with a better understanding of the prevention and treatment of urinary stones. Good veterinary treatment is the most reliable resource for the ongoing care of your dog. You may wish to copy this article for your veterinarian”.
“Key Point: It is not yet possible to dissolve calcium oxalate uroliths by dietary management”.
“However, compliance with feeding special diets and avoiding use of certain drugs will minimize
risk factors known to be associated with calcium oxalate urolith formation”.

[anonymously]

What does a prescription food have to do with his age? I don’t understand.
Ask your vet, but I believe a medical condition takes priority. Just add a little cooked chopped up chicken breast to it (for example) if you want more protein.

Supplements, if they do anything at all, depend on the type of stones your dog is making.
I give my dog this item, but I have cut down to only 2 tabs a day. I am not sure it does anything, but I keep giving it just in case it is helping….his struvite cleared up after antibiotics and increase in water, calcium oxalate stones are a different story (genetic).
K-Plus™ Potassium Citrate Plus Cranberry

[anonymously]

Did you check the search engine here? /forums/search/bladder+stones/

Excerpts from previous posts:

As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

The x-ray is important, but once she is stable for about 1 year, ask the vet if you can skip the x-rays and testing urine PH as long as she is urinating normally and having no difficulty? Ask him the warning signs to look for. You didn’t mention her age?

I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
In fact, I just took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work was good”.

“I was afraid the vet would want to do x-rays and test his urine…..but he said as long as he is not having symptoms we are not going there (he’s too old to tolerate another surgery)”
“I do monitor his urination habits and check for normal flow, stream, amount. If I note any discomfort I will take him to the vet”.

“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones.

“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently.
I went along with the prescription diet for almost a year, since then he has been on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble soaked with water +, I use the wet food too, but the canned foods seem so greasy to me”…

PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.

[anonymously]

Excerpts from previous posts:

As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

The x-ray is important, but once she is stable for about 1 year, ask the vet if you can skip the x-rays and testing urine PH as long as she is urinating normally and having no difficulty? Ask him the warning signs to look for. You didn’t mention her age?

I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
In fact, I just took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work was good”.

“I was afraid the vet would want to do x-rays and test his urine…..but he said as long as he is not having symptoms we are not going there (he’s too old to tolerate another surgery)”
“I do monitor his urination habits and check for normal flow, stream, amount. If I note any discomfort I will take him to the vet”.

“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones.

“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently.
I went along with the prescription diet for almost a year, since then he has been on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble soaked with water +, I use the wet food too, but the canned foods seem so greasy to me”…

PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.

[3pupmom]

Good afternoon. My apologies for the length of this post. My Miniature Schnauzer Ninja was dx w/struvite crystals in Sept. I took him to vet to get some Metro for his yucky diarrhea & it turns out he had a raging UTI, his liver function was out of whack plus pancreatitis all at once. He was hospitalized for 2days, xrays showed no stones and he came home w/antibiotics. I think clavamox. 1 month later at his recheck, ph was 7 still has struvites in his urine plus some rbc/wbc but no infection (vet did a culture). 2nd recheck in Nov ph was 5.5, no struvites, but now he has calcium oxalate crystals. In Sept, before the hospitalization, Ninja was on Canidae All Stages only. When he came home I started him on THK Halcyon, the duck formulation, with a little of the Canidae. After the Oct followup I started him on VetriScience UT strength supplements which contains D-Mannose & Cranberry Extract and switched the kibble to Nature’s Domain Turkey. I was going to add Vitamin C supplements but now after the Nov followup with his urinary ph being 5.5 my vet said not to. I’ve now completely cut kibble out of his diet & he’s on 1/3cup THK only with 3/4cup water to rehydrate twice per day. I give him a 1/2 cup of unsalted broth (23mg sodium) mid-day and there’s plenty of fresh/clean water throughout the house which he barely touches. I’m putting a little bit of white rice in his food/broth to entice him to eat/drink. 2weeks ago I switched from the VetriScience UT Strength to UT Stat. He goes back for another recheck on 12/18. He’s 5years old & this has never been an issue before. Since Sept the vet has been suggesting Royal Canin SO. It’s garbage food & I’d rather not feed that. I’m at a loss at this point. Any suggestions on a different supplement?

[crazy4cats]

Hi Jo D-
The RC S/O diet should only be prescribed for struvite crystals. It helps acidify his urine which helps dissolve the crystals. If he has calcium oxalate crystals, he would need a diet that makes the urine more alkaline to help stop the formation of anymore. My understanding is that they cannot be dissolved, but may be able to flushed out with a lot of moisture added to the diet.

You have your hands full. Good luck!

Edit: I’m sorry, I think I may be incorrect about the RC s/o. It actually may be for both struvite and oxalate crystals. I’ts the Hill’s c/d that acidifies the urine. I think the s/o neutralizes the ph levels and salt is added to promote thirst encouraging the dog to drink more and flush the crystals out. Either way, it is best to add as much moisture to your dog’s diet to rid of either type of crystal.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by crazy4cats.

[Jo D]

I first need to clarify, that he actually was diagnosed with calcium oxalate stones, and NOT struvite stones. But yes, he has been on the Royal Canin SO ever since his surgery in 2012. I have started him on the canned SO, to go along with some of the dry SO for now, until I can figure out what to do. If he had the stones, and not the cancer, or if he had cancer and not the stones, this wouldn’t be such a difficult issue to handle. The problem is, I can feed him a great diet for the cancer, but end up making his bladder stones worse. The oncologist did not refer me to a nutritionist. Actually, none of the vets I’ve seen for Bandit have said anything about a nutritionist.

[anonymously]

Okay, so, soaking the kibble overnight in water, adding a spoonful of topper, more water, should work. What foods did he say were okay? Let’s see the list.
Check Nutrisca and Salmon and Chickpea http://www.chewy.com/dog/dogswell-nutrisca-grain-free-salmon/dp/35031

If your vet is recommending prescription food, I would go along with it for now at least until the dog is stable, then discuss options.

Per the search engine here: Check out my posts. /forums/search/bladder+stones/

PS: Take the dogs out frequently for bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate. Keep the bladder flushed, stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to struvite and calcium oxalate development.

[aimee]

Hi Dawn,

So sorry to hear that your dog recently needed surgery for stones. Were the stones really in the kidneys or were they in the bladder?

From what I’ve read preventing recurrence is difficult. The vet diets have some backing behind them regarding establishing parameters to prevent formation where as a lot of this type of information isn’t available for foods you’d purchase on your own.

If faced with this situation I’d be devoting a lot of my time on monitoring what is coming out of my dog in addition to what is going in. It seems all are in agreement that “dilution is the solution to pollution” in other words water water and more water. I’d want my dog consuming a lot of water which means moist food or if feeding dry I’d be adding a lot of water to it. But again what is most important is what is coming out. To that end I’d buy myself a refractometer so I could catch urine and monitor the concentration at home. I’d also invest in a pH meter to monitor that aspect as well. Having your vet spin down a fresh ie still “warm from the dog” sample and then looking for crystals is another piece of information.

Frequent rechecks and x ray screening can identify reformation when the stones are still small and then may be able to be recovered without surgery.

If you don’t want to use the vet food there are home cooking options through balance it dot com and you could ask your vet what to look for in a store bought food. I’d think you’d want to avoid high oxalate ingredients, and use a food whose calcium level is close to AAFCO minimum( 0.6% DM) That can be a bit tricky as companies may not monitor this closely hence the vet diets. Vit D levels should be controlled as well. Vit C is metabolized to oxalate so avoid that. Protein amount is tricky it may depend on the amino acid profile as I think certain amino acids are metabolized to oxalate. You will likely need to call the company of any food you are considering and ask what is the average urine pH the diet produces and get a nutrient profile. Larger companies are more likely to have the information and type of quality control you’d need over small companies.

Best of Luck

[anonymously]

PS: If the x-ray is negative, she may just have struvite. These crystals often clear up after antibiotics to treat the infection, special diet and increase in water intake. Frequent bathroom breaks.
Calcium oxalate are a little more concerning. But, there are meds and procedures to get rid of them, other than surgery (depending on the dog’s condition). Dogs can have both.

[anonymously]

Check the search engine here: /forums/search/bladder+stones/page/2/
As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

The x-ray is important, but once she is stable for about 1 year, ask the vet if you can skip the x-rays and testing urine PH as long as she is urinating normally and having no difficulty? Ask him the warning signs to look for. You didn’t mention her age?

I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

Below is a previous post of mine:
“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
In fact, I just took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work was good”.

“I was afraid the vet would want to do x-rays and test his urine…..but he said as long as he is not having symptoms we are not going there (he’s too old to tolerate another surgery)”
“I do monitor his urination habits and check for normal flow, stream, amount. If I note any discomfort I will take him to the vet”.

“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones.

“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently.
I went along with the prescription diet for almost a year, since then he has been on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble soaked with water +, I use the wet food too, but the canned foods seem so greasy to me”…

PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by anonymously.

[Dana G]

I’m happy to have found this forum because I have a big challenge I could use some help with. I have a 9 yr. old Havanese who recently had a Calcium Oxalate stone removed. She also has Gallbladder Sludge and must have a very low fat diet. The challenge is finding a low oxalate food that is also very low in fat. The vet wants to put her on Royal Canin Urinary SO Moderate Calorie Dry. It meets the criteria BUT it contains a lot of corn which my dog doesn’t tolerate.

So I’ve been on an exhaustive search for a commercial food that can work for her. The only possibility I’ve found is Earthborn Holistic Weight Control. It is low enough in fat, but the issue is whether it is low enough in oxalate. The concern is the fifth ingredient, Tomato Pomace, which is high oxalate. I called Earthborn to find out what percentage of the total ingredients tomato pomace is. The gentleman said he thought 5% but to be sure, he would ask the nutritionist to call me. After waiting a week I called again only to be told the man I spoke with had just retired, and no one knew anything about them having a nutritionist. The customer service rep said there was only one person who MIGHT be able to help me so I left a message for him. It’s been a week and no call. Since their website claims to be endorsed by Dog Food Advisor, I’m hoping someone on this forum knows something about this company. So my first question is, any ideas on how to get ingredient/nutrient info from Earthborn?

Second question — The only ingredient in this food with significant oxalate content is the tomato pomace. If I assume that the pomace is in fact 5% of total ingredients, does that make this food low oxalate? I’m just not sure if a small % of a very high oxalate ingredient equals a low oxalate food.

I know this is some pretty specific info I’m looking for so I will appreciate any thoughts/advice I receive. I’m out of ideas. If I can’t make this food work, I’ll have to do home cooked.

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Check the search engine (home page on this site) for bladder stones, struvite, calcium oxalate, those are the most common types of stones for dogs, maybe you can find some helpful information…..but it is best to run things by the vet before making changes.

Gradual weight gain is better, you don’t want rapid weight gain, it will stress her system.
Best of luck

PS: As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.

Ask him if you can skip the x-rays and testing urine PH as long as she is urinating normally and having no difficulty? Ask him the warning signs to look for.
Ask the vet if Wysong senior kibble soaked in water overnight with water added and a lean meat topper such as cooked chicken breast chopped up is okay? That’s what my guy likes.

I would comply with the prescription food for now, unless your vet advises differently. If your vet okays that you can add something tasty to it, it might make a big difference.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by Anonymous.

[Anonymous]

My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
In fact, I just took him in for a geriatric workup and his lab work was good.

I was afraid the vet would want to do x-rays and test his urine…..but he said as long as he is not having symptoms we are not going there (he’s too old to tolerate another surgery)
I do monitor his urination habits and check for normal flow, stream, amount. If I note any discomfort I will take him to the vet.

There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones. My guy is a peke. Did your vet have the stones tested?

Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently.
I went along with the prescription diet for almost a year, since then he has been on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea kibble soaked with water +, I use the wet food too, but the canned foods seem so greasy to me…

[Bobby dog]

c4c:
Good info to have about potassium citrate use decreasing chances of calcium oxalate stone formation, not struvite, by increasing urine alkalinity.

Here’s some links to info on supplements and struvite & calcium oxalate uroliths:
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/depts/minnesotaurolithcenter/recommendations/home.html
http://www.vetstreet.com/dl-methionine-rx
http://www.vetstreet.com/potassium-citrate-supplement