Off Topic Discussions

Here’s a place where you can talk about any subject not covered by another article. Well, almost anything. Our Commenting Policy still applies.

  • http://petmedstoday.com Adam Brooks

    I came here to read the comments. Lol

  • Bobby dog

    DogFoodie:
    Are you ready for the return of TWD Feb 8th?

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Dog_Obsessed,
    Agreed, but you know I think I would try and cook the meals, it may even work out to be less costly.
    The friend who I got my Pepper from fed her and her male schnauzer Pedigree & I use to BEG her to change, I used to send food over for her male Squirrel ,once I kept Pepper & changed her to better food.
    She didn’t think pedigree was a bad food, Oh well.

  • Dog_Obsessed

    Yeah. :'( I wouldn’t feed either of those foods, thought if I had to chose I’d pick TOTW in a heartbeat.

  • Dog_Obsessed

    And it was on the reviews/complaints page for Kirkland Dog Food.

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Dog_Obsessed
    I think that’s about typical don’t you??

    I think it’s very sad too, for people that just grab a bag at the grocery store thinking their feeding good food.
    Those poor fur-kids

  • theBCnut

    I’m sorry.

  • Dog_Obsessed

    Dog food ad irony…I got these two ads right next to each other:

  • Greg Martinez Dvm

    Mike,
    Thanks! Love to talk to you.
    I’ll contact you through the “contact us” link
    Greg

  • http://DogFoodAdvisor.com/ Mike Sagman

    Hi Greg.

    I’m a big fan of your YouTube videos and your Dog Dish Diet book, too. So, I’d be happy to speak with you on the phone (or via email) any time.

    Please feel free to click the Contact Us link located in the footer of any page on our website and send me a message. That way we can exchange contact information privately.

    .I look forward to hearing from you soon.

  • Greg Martinez Dvm

    Mike, My name is Greg Martinez DVM. I love your website and am a member. I’ve been interested in feeding dogs a better diet for years and your website is really helpful. I’m writing a book about the different ways we feed and would love to refer to your site so that readers can get some help choosing better food. Your charts with average percentages and comparing them to the ancestral diet would also help explain our philosophies much easier. I wrote about the same things several years ago in “Dog Dish Diet”, but used studies by David Mech and breakdowns of carcasses to try and get a feeling for the ancestral diet. I came up with similiar figures. Let me know if you would like to talk or email about using a couple charts and refering clients to your site.

  • aquariangt

    Yeah, that was a heartbreaking second half

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    I follow the directions on the can Of Perfect Form 1/4 tsp
    Oh the girls ate because of pepper’s issue w acid reflux & reguiritation they eat @ 4:00. Millie learned quick & now she starts crying at 3:15 for supper
    Millie had 1/3 c kibble topped w boiled chicken ate it so fast- too fast. Pep had her honest kitchen w ground turkey.
    please don’t feel the need to respond if you are busy i bothered you enough for 1 day.
    I had a question & before i forget How do you transition on the raw? they have never had venison now do i finish the bag of rabbit & then just give them the venison or do i give both at the same time 1 nugget venison & 2 nuggets rabbit, some of these raw proteins they have never been fed, I don’t want to upset Pepper as well as Millie.
    Sorry if it seems I am so dense,Pep has eaten fish not Millie, but if say I get tripe, wild boar, or duck( I think is too high in fat) so I may not be able to give them the duck.
    How did you go from 1 protein to another i guess I am asking in a very long-winded way. URGHHH
    Thank you so very much again

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    I know that, I don’t know what possessed me to cook both the yellow squash & zucchini -I guess i feel they are almost the same to us but not to Millie’s tummy.
    Pumpkin works for Pepper but only for a short time.
    Funny how the Perfect Form did with Millie, but it may have been 2 different veggies pureed & the perfect Form couldn’t help
    Thanks Dori, no more poo talk -almost your dinnertime on EST

  • Dori

    I’d just give her rabbit for lunch tomorrow and no veggies until her stools are back to normal. Let her gut take a rest. Then you can re-introduce the veggie but I would do only one at a time when introducing something new and/or different to diet. In that way you are better able to see how they do with each new ingredient. Pumpkin never worked for any of my dogs but I swore by the Perfect Form. It was a real life saver.

    How much Perfect Form are you giving them?

    What are they having for p.m. meal today?

  • Crazy4cats

    :-D

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    You are so rt, I forgot to mention since it was a new thing I added ,I also gave her a little Perfect Form w her lunch.
    Again I so apologize for the following:
    Just saw another poo-it looked like the color of the Perfect Form -very soft smelly w a little what seemed to me a mucus over it, then another still soft normal color??
    I guess I should see how she does the rest of the evening and tomorrow morning & get out the canned pumpkin, if she still has this kind of stool tomorrow should I give her the rabbit only rabbit no veggies for lunch?
    Or just do chicken & pumpkin the entire day? Oh I so hate when I screw up so badly and they are the ones to have to suffer for my utter stupidity

  • Dori

    YAY!!!!

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Horray dumbo finally figured it out just click on the thingy you want to post

  • Dori

    Way too much. Also anytime you are going to introduce new ingredients to the diet you need to take teeny weeny baby steps. Especially that she’s never had any pureed vegetables at all and then has never had squash or zucchini before either. Just back things up a little. She’ll be fine. It’s easy to make mistakes like this, we’ve all done them. Again, baby steps in introducing anything new to their diets. If they do well then you can gradually add little bit more, than a little bit more. You’ll see that we long time posters are all poop inspectors. We’ve had long discussions on poop and sometimes some have posted pics of the poop asking “whadda ya think”? We’re all a little crazy when it comes to our companion animals. Our babies.

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Dori,
    I gave her about 2-3 TBSP, may be too much??
    I thought I was the only poo inspector if someone would watch me they would think i have lost it totally.
    this was the first time millie got pureed veggies & the 1st time for squash & zucchini, I know I am overreacting ,she was my tough one, so i get worried!!
    Thank you so much as always

  • Dori

    …and you’re not trying to drag and drop right? Just click on it after you’ve typed your post here on the comments side but before you actually click Post???

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    won’t let me do it (disqus)
    been trying on DFA also.
    I have no problem getting to them or finding the ones i want to use I just can’t put them here or on DFA

  • Dori

    I feed both raw and cooked fruits and veggies and cooked pureed veggies. Mostly raw as treats because they don’t get any other types of treats so I’m not concerned with them getting all nutritional value from them. Raw sometimes I can see little pieces in their poop. As to Millie’s greenish smelly soft stool, I think you may have given her too much zucchini. She may have gotten into something outside but I would bet it was too much zucchini. Has she had pureed zucchini before and, if so, did you give her as much or less? Don’t worry about descriptive poop talk on this site. LOL! Some of us are like poop inspectors. I inspect every poop of all three girls each and every time. It’s really the quickest way to know what’s going on.
    Weather here is finally decent. We’ve had rain for days, then cold cold temps. Today the sun is shining and it’s at 65 degrees. For the middle of January, I’ll take it.

  • Dori

    C4C. Just checking emoji on my iPad. You’re my guinea pig.

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Dori
    I need to ask you something about Millie, hope you see this
    Her stool was very soft today funny color(greenish & it smelled bad) sorry for being soo descriptive. only thing different I cooked and pureed some yellow squash & zucchini to give with the raw rabbit for lunch (i usually cook a few of the small carrots)but the puree is yellow.
    she was doing fine with the raw until this afternoon (maybe she got into something outside).
    i will watch & see.
    My question I read that cooking a bit is necessary because they can’t digest the cellulose, do you feed your girls raw veggies or do you cook them? also do you puree them if so I know the broccoli stalk is good for them but should be pureed ( I read that in the ABC diet)
    Pepper seems ok .
    I am stumped
    Thanks for any advice
    Weather here magnificent finally
    how about your way??

  • Dori

    Hi Cheryl,
    OK so I’m assuming by Macdaddy you mean a Mac computer? If so, you don’t have to drag and drop them on your posts. If you’re using a Mac computer on the upper left hand you’ll see Edit. Click on edit, then scroll down to Special Characters. Click on Special Characters. A little screen will come up with all sorts of characters. Just look at the bottom line of the little square and you’ll see little buttons that you can click on and it will give each will give you different emoji’s. So when you finish typing your post, do the above and click on the emoji you want. It will show up at the end of your last sentence. Think you can click Post as Cheryl. Let me know if this works for you.

    Edit:
    Forgot to mention that it doesn’t work on the Forum side. If you want emoji there like a smile face you have to put in :-) and after you submit it comes up like a little yellow smiley face.

    Edit:
    If you’re on a iPhone or iPad when you start to type, on the lower left hand side of keyboard you’ll see a smiley face. Click that and it will show you other emoji’s.

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Hi Dori,
    Just saw this I have a Macdaddy!!
    I have the emoji know how to get to them but no luck when I drag and drop them on my posts
    once I hit submit they are gone

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    thanks I never used my iPad to post yet, i will try
    I don’t use a pc I have a macdaddy
    Does anyone have a Mac and if so how to you get the emoji to post
    thanks

  • Dori

    What type of computer are you using? Mac or Windows?

  • Crazy4cats

    I don’t do anything special. I have a ton of them on my ipad keyboard. But, I notice when I am on a pc, they don’t show. Also, I’ve never got them to work on the forum unless I manually make them with punctuation marks.

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    crazy4cats,
    How do you get your emoji to post??
    I drag & drop them to my post z7 when I hit submit or reply they are gone??
    what am I doing incorrectly?
    Thanks so much

  • Crazy4cats

    I think a miracle happened in Seattle today

  • Dog_Obsessed

    I am once again jealous of your emoji.

  • Crazy4cats
  • Dog_Obsessed

    Just a little something to brighten your day: http://www.dogster.com/bolz/rear-gear-butt-cover-for-dog-anus-etsy
    It gives a new meaning to the phrase “Cover your butt.” :D

  • bcsan111

    Can someone tell me who processes Instinct in the Duck formula?

  • Crazy4cats

    That’s right, Dori

  • Dori

    Sorry, aquariangt. I gotta go with C4C on the Hawks. My brother lives in Seattle so I have no choice but to scream

  • Crazy4cats

    Oh, see, you are already scared!
    Go Hawks!

  • aquariangt

    oh, it’s on now!
    Seriously though, this is the game I haven’t been looking forward to (*looks at week 1* *is sad*) Going to seattle is never fun, if only we had beaten Buffalo :) I firmly believe whichever team wins the NFC championship will win the Super Bowl, and while I like watching the seahawks, I really hope it isn’t them

  • Crazy4cats

    What is weird, though, is that on my work PC (shhhh…don’t tell anyone), the dealies don’t show! So, maybe not everyone can enjoy those little guys I spend so much time on when they read my posts. They are really missing out. LOL!

  • Crazy4cats

    Well, I guess it’s on, Aquariangt! Good luck, the Hawks are pretty revved up!

  • Crazy4cats

    That is if…your beloved Packers can make it past the Cowboys first.

  • Crazy4cats

    Oh yes, I’m out of control. Lol! Another therapy group I need to find.

  • aquariangt

    Oh no, C4C! Next week we are probably going to not be friends…because Go Pack Go!

  • Bobby dog

    You have figured out the emoticons I see! ;)

  • Crazy4cats

    I’ve held off until now, but I just have to say it!

  • theBCnut

    The day I left was when it got so cold for you. Lucky me. I never had to wear anything heavier than a t-shirt and a hoodie, but right after I left there was an overnight freeze. Brrrr!

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    We have been having some very nasty cold weather , I know it’s bad because my pepper has no interest in walking & being blind, she lives for her morning walks -it actually looked like snow today but it was just a cold rain

  • theBCnut

    I was in Mississippi right on the edge of LA this past weekend for a stockwork clinic. I was surprised to find it wetter than FL.

  • Shawna

    Haven’t been to a seminar but I did have an opportunity to talk with her about Audrey once… Very enlightening.

    I think I’d have a problem with some of her ideas though — example, she sees no value in giving coconut oil based on a newsletter article she put out. Said there wasn’t any science backing it when there most DEFINITELY is. That said, I would go to one of her seminars but I would be picky about what I took away from it.. :)

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    I have an opportunity to go to a Lew Olsen seminar near my area at the end of the month. Has anyone been before?

  • theBCnut

    Ouch!!

    Sent from my iPod

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Worse New Yorker living in the swamp-Louisiana

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Why thank you Dori,
    It is hard to get them to stay still to shoot a pic, & (like they would know) i can’t have a pic of Pepper without Millie
    I have some good singles of them.

  • Dori

    Your babies are adorable. ☺️

  • theBCnut

    Are you from Florida too?

  • theBCnut

    I even have several crates that have side and front doors. They are easy to find now days.

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Thank you BC,
    I wouldn’t want to overdo at this point.
    I can’t honestly say we run a lot-just a bit, then we walk a power walk-I am glad to know it’s ok.
    Gotta walk in this weather, before the inferno hits in a few months!!

  • theBCnut

    The rule of thumb that I have always read is 5 minutes of structured exercise per month of age per day, so a 6 month old can walk for 30 minutes. That’s at a walk though. If she is running then the high impact means less time. Structured high impact exercise should wait until her growth plates close.

  • LabsRawesome

    I’m sure results would vary, based on individual puppies. But this product could be used or even made with an existing crate, then it would be up to the owner to give free reign over the house or put the puppy in a laundry room or a room where there isn’t anything they can destroy or get into if their naughty.

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Can anyone tell me is it ok to walk a 6 month old pup about 1.4 miles on concrete? She is a mini schnauzer. Someone told me I may be causing her hip problems in the future. Is this to far to walk her.
    thanks guys

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    yes sandy-i just went & signed up thank you

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Thank you. why oh why did this site change-as I get older I hate change URGHH

  • theBCnut

    Probably deceptive is a little strong, but I see the ad as being designed for people who don’t know much about puppies, so saying that they can be left loose once they know how to use their product would deceive people who don’t know better. All of mine except one would definitely sleep on the pee pad side, but I’m sure their crate design would work great for a lot of people.

  • LabsRawesome

    I don’t think it’s deceptive. Their just giving different scenarios. Some puppies would be able to be left out of their crate while the owner is gone. Some puppies and even grown dogs cannot be trusted home alone. All 3 of mine are good, they don’t bother anything, and they hold it till I get home. I think The Puppy Apartment could be very useful for some people. And if someone wanted to, they could make their own by using a crate they already have and just modifying it by making a wire divider and adding a wee wee pad.

  • Susan

    This section Disqus is different to Editor Choice side, its a different site to this one, I also had so much trouble, I had to rejoin on the Editors choice side & upload the same picture other wise it didn’t work someone else may know more but try & upload the same photo by clicking on where the picture goes on the E/C side…

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    Does your avatar show up in non-Editor’s Choice postings?

    Have you gone to gravatar.com yet to create an account?

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Can someone tell me why in the “Editors Choice” postings the picture of my babies does not appear-I have tried everything & it does not transfer,forgive my stupidity, I thought I had SOME computer expertise, but this is frustrating. Thank you for any help

  • theBCnut

    I think it’s an interesting idea, but their marketing is deceptive. I really have issues with that.

  • LabsRawesome

    Tell us how you really feel. lol. I still think it’s a good idea.

  • JR

    That’s exactly what I’ve started doing: using Vital logs as a topper – just a couple of bites mixed in their Orijen in the morning and at night. This way, my dogs get a tasty, more satisfying meal that has just the right amount of “fresh” fat in it.

  • Dog_Obsessed

    I just noticed the part of “A Final Word” in each review that says

    “The Dog Food Advisor does not test dog food products.

    We rely almost entirely on the integrity of the information posted by each company on its website. As such, the accuracy of every review is directly dependent upon the quality of the test results from any specific batch of food a company chooses to publish.”

    Is this new, or have I just not noticed it before? It is not in the articles, just the reviews.

  • theBCnut

    I wasted 15 minutes watching their video. First they say as soon as your puppy knows where to go potty, you can leave it loose in the house when you leave, then they say the PTPA will save your dog from dangerous electrical cords. How’s that work? Then they say you don’t need to have someone come and let your dog out when you are gone all day, or just plain gone. What puppy wouldn’t take up fingerpainting under those circumstances? And apparently, I’m doing it wrong, because getting a PTPA will make it so I don’t have to hire one of those expensive pooper scooper companies. Here I thought I was supposed to scoop that stuff myself. I’ve been doing it wrong for 40 years!!!! Finally, they say their PTPA is great for large dogs, but all they ever showed was Min Pin puppies using it. And let’s not forget how common it is for puppies to shred potty pads.

  • LabsRawesome
  • Dog_Obsessed

    Ah, okay. I had remembered the article wrong. Thanks!

  • Hater & Molly’s Mom
  • Dog_Obsessed

    Totally agree! But isn’t it aflatoxins that grow on grain? Do mycotoxins also?

  • neezerfan

    I’m confused by this. I think she chose certain brands to test and then shared the results. Not that she tested a lot of brands and only posted ones that didn’t do well. I’m more concerned that Freshpet has such a crazy amount of fat. I’d like to hear what Aimee has to say about this whole thing. I don’t understand the significance of the results.

  • Hater & Molly’s Mom

    Thank you for posting that!

  • Hater & Molly’s Mom

    I just got done reading it and i couldn’t believe that Wellness was on there. I always thought of it, and have fed it, as a very trusted brand. Just another reason why i never feed a grain inclusive food.

  • Dog_Obsessed

    You totally beat me to it, I was just about to post that. :) It’s really scary though. I have always trusted Wellness and thought of it as safe and healthy, but this is making me think otherwise.

  • Babslynne

    This is scary stuff, must read! Opinions anyone?
    http://truthaboutpetfood.com/the-pet-food-test-results/

  • Bobby dog

    I am always on the lookout for commercial raw. I have looked at it before and the fat to protein ratio is too high for me. I just read the DFA review for the food (never read it before) and I would say the “special alert” included in the review would be the most important reason not to feed this food IMO.
    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/ziwipeak-dog-food-dehydrated/
    Customer service is a very important part of my pet food criterion. I like to ask questions and more importantly I like to get answers. ;)

  • Bobby dog

    Commercial frozen raw doesn’t look like raw meat that we get from the grocery store so I think you will be fine!

    I have never heard of Ever Pup.

    The last time Bobby had blood work was when I started the ABC diet. Everything was perfect. I can’t say his energy level has increased because he is just a ball of fire in the first place. His coat did get softer and a little shinier since feeding it. I also feel the fresh foods has helped him maintain healthy skin. The reason I found DFA was due to skin and coat issues. He did have a relapse of itchy skin in September, but I believe it was due to feeding four months straight of kibble with potatoes as the carb. I really need to pay attention to rotating different carbs and proteins.

    Senior kibbles are usually lower in fat. Some also tend to be lower in protein too. I have found some senior foods to be more to my liking than weight loss kibbles; more calories/cup, lower in fat, and lower carb % than average weight loss foods. Weight loss or reduced fat can be lower in fat, but if you just need to reduce the fat a little I like to look at senior foods.

    I go by ingredients rather than specific stage of life foods since Bobby is an adult. I feed him puppy, breed specific, and all life stages foods. He gets a little of everything, sometimes he gets the cat food my cats won’t eat too. lol Large/giant breed puppies, puppies, and pregnant/lactating bitches (I hope I didn’t forget another important life stage) have specific dietary requirements. As long as a food fits your adult dog’s dietary requirements, regardless of what stage it is formulated for, it’s fine for them. As an example, Amicus has three formulas. A puppy, adult, and a combined Senior/Weight loss formula. The last food is formulated and marketed for both a certain stage of life and health issue.

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Oh Bobby,
    One more thing what’s your opinion on ZiiwiPeak air-dried food?have you every used it-I am sure the fats are crazy high, but just was curious.
    Thanks again

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    I hope the HK works out for Pep also-she ADORES IT -since she is completely blind she keeps licking the bowl & licking it it shines after she is finished! But like you, I have made peace with myself that her being here is more important to me,and if a vet diet will keep her with me ,then a vet diet it is!!
    Oh, sorry then I thought all the brands you mentioned were senior kibble brands. I will look into them slowly.
    Have you noticed a difference in the 10 months since feeding this diet? Blood work better etc?
    I did order a few more ebooks .
    I also found Wag.com to carry the Primal Raw so I am going to try it out on Millie-I can’t believe I am going to feed raw, but I will try
    I posted a question on another forum-have you every heard of a supplement called Ever Pup? It’s made with human grade ingredients and was wondering if anyone has used it.
    I just take out enough kibble for a few days & leave the bags in the refrigerator.
    I will look up your suggestions on the probiotics & digestive enzymes
    Thank you again for everything. It means so much.
    Have a great week.

  • Bobby dog

    You’re welcome, glad Shawna caught up with you!

    All the recommendations for kibble, GF and grain inclusive, were for Millie. I added info on the products for digestive/gastric issues for your older dog. They are products regular DFA posters often recommend. I have not used them, only the pumpkin puree’.

    Yes, one can of sardines. If you don’t feed one whole can in one meal, use it by the second day. Bobby’s recommended amount is a little less then two cans. I feed him two cans within two days one week, then the following week I feed one can within two days. Sometimes I don’t have sardines. When that happens I supplement with a fish oil.

    I feed blueberries and other berries for fruit. I also feed apples or pears with maybe some bananas mixed in too; depends what I have on hand. I haven’t fed watermelon rind because my horses love them so much, they get first choice. lol Bobby does eat the scraps that fall to the ground though. lol

    I have been following the ABC diet for about 10 months. I don’t feed it in one day. It works out better for us to feed the food items over a few days. The fruit is used as treats rather than adding it to a meal. I just reduce the amount of kibble on the days I feed fresh foods. Sometimes I don’t have fresh meat so I substitute commercial raw. During the summer I also reduced the amount of eggs I fed because of his weight.

    I hope THK works out for Pepper. If it doesn’t, FWIW, I would not hesitate to feed an Rx food. There are some brands/recipes I might not feed. However, if it helped them maintain a quality of life I wouldn’t hesitate.

    One tip for keeping kibble refrigerated. Be sure to keep it in the fridge to avoid temperature changes. With temp changes moisture could form inside the bag causing the kibble to spoil. I sometimes freeze kibble in it’s original bag when I buy medium sized bags and want to rotate to another brand. When I am ready to feed it again I take it out and let it rise to room temp before opening the bag to avoid moisture from forming.

    After reading about added oils in kibble I started to avoid brands with large amounts of fish meal. If fish meal is included I like it to be further down the ingredient list and made of a named smaller fish species. I also started looking for simpler kibble recipes. Adding fresh foods and probiotics myself makes for a healthier meal IMO rather than it being included in a bag of kibble that more than likely was manufactured many months before I purchase it.

    Steve Brown (author of the ABC Diet) is a fan favorite on DFA. If you are interested in making your own food he has a book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet.” The See Spot Live Longer dinner mix was formulated by him and is his brand. Some other books are “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Karen Becker and “Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs: The Definitive Guide to Homemade Meals,” by Dr. Lew Olson.
    I will look for updates from you too!

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Bobby,
    Thank you for your info.
    I guess I confused then issue,by my ramblings.
    Pepper is the 11 1/2 y.o. she is the kid with bad gastric issues & chronic inflammation -she cannot digest kibble any longer-she was amicus senior for a long time (after trials with most you suggested).
    I have my fingers crossed with her because she has been slowly getting the HK grain-free varieties-if she does not tolerate the HK – I have no choice but to go to vet food.
    I was asking for your recommendations for Millie my 6 month old – but to tell you the truth after reading the e-book you suggested I don’t know if I want her to eat kibble long term-even the so-called premium kibble like Orijen & Horizon.
    I wanted to ask you if you tried the ABC diet yet?
    If so (please forgive my stupidity) does he mean say for example for a 15lb.pup to feed the entire can of sardines in that day (i was looking at the 2nd diet)-that’s what I am assuming he meant.
    I wish he was a little more specific on the fruit, I will try apples & maybe berries , I am not too anxious to feed watermelon rind.
    I think I will try the sardines 1st -Pepper LOVED THEM BEFORE SHE GOT SICK.
    Thank you so much again for recommending the e-book-it has really opened my eyes.
    Please keep in touch & let me know how your kid does on the diet.
    I always wondered how the oils in the premium foods keep their stability & he confirmed what I always thought.
    Actually, once I open a bag, I refrigerate it, which may not be the best, but I just don’t want the oils to turn rancid.
    Thanks again Bobby.

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Well My dear friend,
    I had a feeling that maybe if i kept posting, my dear dear friend ,mentor & guru would have to say hi.
    I did indeed try calling after thanksgiving, but figured you were busy, and then my angel Pepper had a bad December -regurgitation then vomiting a bit of diarrhea so on we went to LSU 2x-did everything EXCEPT the endoscopy ( the vet wasn’t too anxious to have her under anesthesia – we took blood ,x-rays ,ultrasound, all came back o.k., tested stool, for everythng-well long story short put her on sucralfate, prilosec for 2 weeks, I stopped everything her cocotherapy treats-just had her on Pumpkin & ground boiled turkey breast-then gave her a sweet potato instead of pumpkin ,. Then asked if he would try her on Reglan because her food doesn’t digest well I think she also has a motility problem, he agreed & his suggestion was she must go on a vet diet -a hydrolyzed protein, well you know me and he really is sweet and he knows I am nuts when Pepper’s food is an issue, I said Doc, I am not challenging you ,just let me try 1 more thing & since Pepper’s well being is #1 , if this doesn’t work I will feed her whatever vet diet you suggest. To me, having her with me is more important than debating over those poisonious vet diets.
    This week I added 1 TBSP of the H.K. grain free turkey & fish & she has been keeping it down. I know the Reglan is helping with that. I have also used their perfect form,which seems to be doing something. Seems the mercola products no longer worked for her.
    Shawna, you know me when Pep is out of sorts I loose it.
    So I am taking it slow with the HK and maybe she can stay on that. Kibble is longer an option which is fine with me. I just downloaded a book Bobby recommended and will start doing more cooking for her.
    So we shall see.
    As for crazy Millie,
    Shawna she will eat anything and everything-what an eye opener.
    Feeding time here is like a frenzy- she has a clock (better than Pep’s & that’s hard to beat)
    I shudder to think what will happen when I cut her noontime meal out-that’s the meal I give her 1 orijen freeze dried patty w/ 4 mini cooked carrots.-she might eat me!!! or god forbid Pepper, any time she hears a sound in the kitchen there’s Millie hoping for something!
    I will do as you suggest, just keep the freeze dried to a bit.
    The orijen kibble is a little higher fat but I balance it out with the horizon legacy & amicus lines which are lower.
    I have a feeling this kid can get variety so I will keep trying different add-ons-it seems she would eat the HK because she lurks around Pepper’s bowl & likes licking it out when Pepper is finished.
    Would you believe at 15 weeks I had to get her a slow feed bowl.
    Well I am going on & On so sorry.
    I will e-mail you & text you a pic of Millie & her 1st big girl Haircut.
    Hope your holidays went well & ur entire family is blessed with health happiness & good fortune this yr. & all the yrs to follow.
    I am still trying to get used to all the changes to posting. half the time I forget where I post. :(

  • Bobby dog

    Those schnauzers sure are lucky they are so cute!!!

    Another GF kibble option to look into is Now Fresh Senior.

    Here are some grain inclusive lower fat kibbles, Nutrisource Sr., Eagle Pack Reduced Fat, Precise Sr., California Natural Chicken Meal & Brown Rice Sr., and Innova Sr. The protein %’s are about 5-6% lower than Amicus, but I wouldn’t worry about that since you are using toppers which will up the protein in her meals. The calories range 350-400/cup, Amicus is 400/cup, and the fiber %’s may be a little more or less.

    I feed Nutrisource and Precise kibble & canned to my dog and cats. I also feed Eagle Pack and Innova canned foods. I have fed Cali Nat’l kibble in the past to my cats.

    There are plenty of low fat grain inclusive foods out there, but they have lower protein, fewer calories, and higher fiber %’s. Foods with fewer calories may not satisfy her. I am thinking since she is doing well on the Amicus %’s and calories I would try to stay within those ranges.

    Sandy had suggested that you might want to look into using lean meat and a powdered supplement. See Spot Live Longer Dinner mix is not for sale at this time. It should be back on the market with more formulations in the spring. I am going to try it out when it’s for sale again. She recommended a few other good brands too. U-stew is a supplement I want to try sometime soon. They make a supplement for raw or cooked foods. Here’s their info for a cooked food supplement: https://www.knowbetterpetfood.com/U-Stew

    Here is another brand that sells a supplement that might interest you: http://justfoodfordogs.com/products/do-it-yourself/

    You mentioned your other dog has some health issues, here are some supplements that regulars often recommend for diarrhea or loose stools Honest Kitchen Perfect Form supplement, Fruitables, Firm-up pumpkin supplement (dehydrated pumpkin), Phytomucil by Animal Essentials, Vetri Pro BD by Vetri-Science, and Gastriplex by Thorne. I have only ever used plain canned pumpkin puree’ to firm up stool.

    If you plan to follow the ABC diet or just want more info on fresh foods to add to her meals I found this USDA website helpful to figure out calories and fat %’s of foods I add to Bobby’s meals. You can find nutritional data on anything from a raw chicken wing to Kentucky Fried Chicken. lol
    http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/

  • DogFoodie

    Remember “roaming?” That’s what your situation reminds me of. I agree with you, I’d much rather get the one I have up and running properly than hassle with resetting everything.

    I know when I’m at work, sometimes calls come through and sometimes not. Sometimes there’ll be a message and sometimes the caller will tell me they “couldn’t get through,” but, that’s just the hazard of working in a giant concrete and marble building.

  • Shawna

    Lucky for your kids DogFoodie!!! :) If my kids, I’d remember them right before the groomer was supposed to close for day and be in a panic to get there… Ugh :)

    This happened with another phone several years ago. The phone is set up correctly — sound is on and up, DND (blocking mode in my case) is set to go on at 10:00pm and off at 7:00am (and calls from immediate family still come through) — and I still receive text notifications etc.

    I know it is a problem with the phone itself (or more likely the service) because 1. — the call doesn’t show up in “recent” call history either. No indication at all that there was a call unless a voice mail is left. 2. I received a smartwatch for Christmas. Over the weekend my smartwatch rang but phone was silent and no recent call history… Stupid technology.. :) Verizon wants me to “reset the phone to factory” to troubleshoot. Takes me three days to get it set back up again….. grrrr If that doesn’t work they’ll send me a new phone but last time this happened it was the Verizon service not the phone.. Gotta go through all the nonsense first though.

  • DogFoodie

    Hi Shawna!

    I missed the call from the groomer today letting me know the dogs were ready, but luckily was looking out for her call.

    My daughter checked my phone and it was set on “do not disturb.” I wondered how it was possible that I always miss everyone’s calls. I didn’t set it that way…, maybe that’s what going on with yours, too.

  • Shawna

    Hi Doll!!

    My nose was itching and now I know why!! Hee hee

    I was expecting a call from you after your last email?? I just realized my cell phone is missing calls and I don’t get a notification unless a message is left. SO, if you tried calling — I was not ignoring you. :)

    I think Bobby and the others have given you some great advice but I wanted to add something else. Yes, many of the freeze dried foods are a bit, to a lot, high in fat. I like how Melissa handles this — she adds the higher fat foods to lower fat foods so the combined fat is in the range she finds acceptable. Melissa would also have some recommendations for foods that have been good for her Schnauzers.

    Congratulations again, my friend, on your new family member. Give the girls kisses from me!!!

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Oh yes Bobby, fat is always a concern for me with these schnauzers .

  • Bobby dog

    For grain inclusive options are you looking for lower fat?

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Thank you so very much Sandy for your help.
    As i am becoming more familiar with freeze dried,as much as I would like to use it on a regular basis for millie,it looks like it has to be an every so often entry & not that often.
    You probably don’t remember, because you help so many on this site,but you were so kind when I needed help with my older gal Pepper.
    Millie is my new fur-kid & I want to give her the best start off that I can.
    I don’t feel comfortable feeding real raw, so I had thought the freeze dried might be an option.
    Well, it looks like cooking more than just meats for them is the next arena to tackle .
    Thank you so much again.
    A very happy healthy new year to you.

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Bobby,
    Just saying thank you is not enough -I am so grateful to you for taking such time to reply & post your low-fat ideas.
    It really is overwhelming.
    I am so limited with Pepper, that when I found the Amicus, I stuck with it for her,I always cooked toppers.
    Now with Millie, I want to give her variety, but, honestly her breeder only uses Candidae raves about it, after looking it over, I just didn’t feel like it was a food I would keep her on.
    I thought the freeze-dried would be great but now see it can only be given occasionally.
    I just downloaded the book and will read it this weekend. I like the idea that it tells you proportions because I don’t ant to guess when their health is at stake.
    You might find this funny.
    When I was struggling so finding a food for my Pepper, & Shawna was posting & being such a great wealth of info & support , she suggested contacting Dr. Dodds & possibly doing a saliva test on Pepper to see what she is reactive to, well I did it-anyhting for my Pepper.When the report came back it included a phone consult with her-she heard the desperation, feeling of hopelessness in my voice-she said
    “Cheryl stop making yourself crazy finding the “perfect kibble” get some honest kitchen ,look at her results & boil some beef ,chicken, whatever & there you go!!!! I replied But Dr. what about variety-she said rotate within the HK!
    Of course I didn’t listen & continued to make myself crazy. Listened to posters on here that said HK caused loose or cow-pie stools-which scared me so(because of her on & off gastric problems)-I could never bring myself to try her on it-well since HK is the last try before the Royal Canin hydrolyzed…I just took a deep breadth & did it-she loves it & I want to hit myself upside my head!!!
    I have noticed that since Pepper is off Kibble her waistline came back & I was only feeding 3/8 cup am & pm, Wt. Management formula,so there might be some credence to kibble -any kibble even the premium brands keeping the kids from losing wt. I don’t know.
    I am familiar with dogaware-I don’t visit the site often ,but will start to check it out.
    With Millie, I am still so disappointed, I did calculations on the HK complete foods grain-free & it was just so-so.
    I am sure that Millie would be able to tolerate a grain inclusive food & may do what you do & rotate it in.
    I am using the Horizon Legacy along with the Amicus & orijen –
    If I would go the grain route do you have some good ones to suggest?
    I know the HK has grain inclusive food,also.
    I still would rather cook toppers, then used canned food,but that may change ,when I go back to work, so i will keep the Fromms & weruva on my extensive list that I am creating for Milliie.
    Thank you soo much again Bobby for all your kindness
    Oh & when doing the calculations on the Oracle HORRIFYING -50% fat,so Bill FYI forget this 1 for your mini boy

  • Bobby dog

    I don’t know what breed Bobby is, he’s a rescue. He is five years old, it’s hard for me to believe. It seems like yesterday I was potty training him! He still acts like a puppy carrying around his toys and playing Frisbee. He is about 42 lbs. and is probably some kind of cattle and hunting dog mix. He has the body of a cattle dog, markings and coat of a hunting dog. He herds and is obsessed with birds whether they are in a cage or flying around outside. He points every now and then too.

    The ABC diet is a download ($2.95) and it’s about 40 pages, it’s an easy read. I like it because it lists specific quantities and items; it’s very easy to follow. I have not read “The Paleo Dog” I will add that to my reading list. Her site is one of my favorites for cats. My next book will be “Real Food for Healthy Cats and Dogs,” I want to start making some cooked meals for my dog and cats.

    I went over Bobby’s food list to see what low fat GF foods I have fed. I feed Bobby GF and grain inclusive so he is not exposed to any single kibble binder or protein for extended periods. I have only fed two GF/low fat kibbles, Nature’s Variety Healthy Weight Chic Meal and Annamaet Lean. I’m not sure they fall into the parameters you are looking for. I know you don’t feed canned, but I will list them anyway just in case you need different options in the future, Wellness Core Weight Management, Weruva’s Marbella Paella, Paw Lickin’ Chicken, and Bed and Breakfast. On Weruva’s site they list their nutrition information in dry matter basis, very handy!

    Other posters regularly recommend Wellness Core Weight Management and Earthborn Weight Control kibbles. Other low fat canned foods I have on my list to try are Fromm’s Four Star Shredded Chic or Beef and Petsmart’s Simply Nourish bisque or stew foods.

    Here’s another dog site I visit quite often. You may already know about it, if not check it out:
    http://www.dogaware.com/

  • Bobby dog

    You are welcome! As DF wrote, when you begin analyzing commercial raw it really is an eye opener as to the fat content in them. It is such an important thing to know when you have a breed that is sensitive to fat. I only started paying attention to it because of my dog’s weight, thank goodness it was just a minor health issue. After I took notice to the fat in commercial raw it really eliminated allot of brands and recipes for Bobby; and I was only using it as a topper, not a full meal.
    I agree with DF, Orijen FD is not an ideal choice for your pup. When I see the fat and protein %’s nearly identical on the label, it’s too high in fat for me. I really want the fat % to be half of the protein % in most foods that I feed. Some can be higher in fat since I feed a rotational diet, but the majority needs to be average fat. Sandy has some really good options for you to look into below!

    Glad you have chatted with both Shawna and Melissa before. Shawna still pops in every now and then. I have learned several things from Melissa’s posts that have helped me find some foods for my friend’s small pancreatic prone dog. For some reason her Holistic Vet suggested she feed raw FD (a brand that was high in fat) to her dog after she had pancreatitis. I told her I thought it was a bad choice and why. She kept feeding it and unfortunately a few weeks later her dog had another bout of pancreatitis. She finally found a happy medium with kibble, canned, and fresh foods.

  • DogFoodie

    Not to make things more confusing, because I know this subject can be, here’s a thread from the forum when Dr. Tabitha first shared the calorie basis converter: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/forums/topic/pet-food-label-help/

    FWIW, when I plugged in the numbers from both the Orijen website for both the GA and the RA for the specific product you mentioned, I come up with close to the same numbers; which are as follows: 37.5% protein; 36.5% fat; and 5.21% fiber.

    That’s not horrible. I would use it as a topper with a lower fat food, but I can’t recommend it for a Schnauzer.

  • http://www.dfwpugs.com/ sandy

    If you use a dry-matter calculator, you can compare the raw, freeze dried, canned, etc to kibble. In the Orijen Freeze Dried review, the brand has a protein level of 38% and a fat level of 36% (dry matter) which results in a fat-to-protein ratio of 95% which is most likely too high for a Schnauzer (both the fat level and fat-to-protein ratio). I don’t know of any raw foods (frozen or freeze dried) that would be considered low fat unless it is just a meat-only treat. The lowest fat recipe is usually a rabbit recipe since rabbit is a lean meat but it also depends on what else they add to the rabbit. You might consider using lean meat and a powdered raw food supplement if your dog can tolerate the ingredients like See Spot Live Longer, Urban Wolf or CarnivoreRaw. Ideally, you want to have a fat-to-protein ratio of only 50% in a raw food and that is for a “regular” food without consideration for a fat-sensitive breed. I can’t think of any raw food that has less than 15% of fat unless you make it yourself. Primal frozen rabbit is 17% and Primal frozen venison is 16% fat as of the last review around 10/2013. It may be different now. Fresh is Best freeze dried turkey recipe is 15.7% fat.

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    DogFoodie,
    I thank you for the link-I truly think my brain is freeze dried really, I do.
    I have a bag in front of me of the orijen freeze dried Adult patties listing “guaranteed analysis & an approx. “Reconstituted Analysis”-in small print they list the calorie content of 1 patty as 75 cal w/ 29% protein 8% from fruits & veggies & a whopping 63% in fat-in 1 patty-Oh gosh I can’t feed this to a mini schnauzer-i will kill her
    This is maddening and very confusing to me-
    Are these calculators equipped( to your knowledge( to calculate freeze dried , raw & dehydrated food. Or are they only consistent for canned & kibble.
    I have a migraine from all this math
    Thank you
    Totally mathed-out Cheryl

  • Cheryl, Pepper & Millie-Belle

    Bobby Dog
    Thank you so very much again.
    I think i just might contact Oriijen and Stella & Chewy’s & Primal because It might be easier and hopefully I can get a truthful answer.
    I really really wanted Millie to get freeze dried in her rotation,and maybe I still can,just not too much and not too often
    when i 1st got Pepper & found this site, Melissa did help me ( I was completely lost) as well as Shawna (who I don’t think posts anymore here)
    I am still navigating the various areas to post & get some input, since this site is completely changed.
    I sincerely want to tell you how kind you are to provide me with all the links you have posted.