[Kevin R]

Has anyone used any dental spray or something similar that works, particularly to help remove tartar? Anyone familiar with Dentasure dental spray? Just wondering because it doesn’t contain alcohol.Thanks.

[anonymous]

Nothing removes tartar except daily teeth brushing makes a big difference. A professional cleaning may be needed depending on condition of the teeth and then daily brushing.
Hope this helps http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=dental+disease
Dental Disease in Dogs and Cats: Does Treatment Improve Health?
Posted on June 6, 2013 by skeptvet
(Excerpt from article below click on link for full article)
“Dental disease, especially periodontal disease, is very common in dogs and cats. Though affected pets rarely show obvious or severe symptoms, periodontal disease is undoubtedly a source of significant discomfort. The only accurate way to diagnose, characterize, and treat periodontal disease is with a thorough oral examination, dental x-rays, and appropriate cleaning and often extraction or endodontic treatment of infected teeth. This can only be accomplished under general anesthesia”.

[Kevin R]

Yeah, the vets don’t want to do a cleaning right now due to current/past health issues. I was just looking for something to help with the tartar and mild redness of the gum line. I am currently brushing her teeth. Thanks.

[Acroyali]

Fragaria Vesca 6x, a few pellets diluted in water and used as a tooth paste will (over a period of a few weeks) loosen tartar rapidly and make it easy to brush or flick off. It’s no complete substitute for a professional cleaning, but if the dog’s health makes a dental cleaning not an option, this might be something to consider. I used this a few times a day on an elderly dog who’s health made the vet leery of putting him under, and though I was skeptical that it would work so well it really did. The tartar didn’t “disappear” but it softened what was there enough for me to use my fingernail to flick some of it off. The vet was very happy with our progress with this.

[anonymous]

I have good results using Petrodex and an adult toothbrush, I even use a battery operated one now. Once a day. Twice a day is even better, it only takes 5 minutes.
But, you have to get in the back/sides.
I get the toothpaste at chewy dot com.

[anonymous]

Another thought, if the dog is experiencing pain/discomfort/infection also known as periodontal disease. I would go to a specialist, example:
“The Dentistry Specialty Service at Angell Animal Medical Center has been proud to provide quality oral health care to pets and education to clients and veterinarians since 1998.”
“We are an experienced, dentistry-dedicated technical staff, with experience treating high-anesthesia-risk patients.” excerpt from https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/dentistry-service/

[Kevin R]

Thanks. I currently have the Virbac CET enzymatic stuff. I don’t really have an opinion on it though. I’ll keep the Petrodex in mind. As far as pain, I don’t really think she is in any. I could be wrong, but don’t think so. The vet here has mentioned sending her to dental vet if need arose. Personally, I think my dog would be ok through a dental, but I’m not a vet.

Hi Acroyali, I’ve heard of that stuff you mentioned and couldn’t find it at one time. Do you have a suggestion on where to purchase it? I don’t want to get the wrong thing. I’ve saw something with the same name, but it says “6c” instead of “6x.” Also, do you know if this can damage the enamel any? Thanks for the replies everyone.

[Acroyali]

Hi Kevin:

I emailed (and ordered) FG6x from ABC homeopathy online. I asked them a few questions and they were very helpful. I had no problems with enamel damage but I didn’t use it long-term, just a few weeks in order to loosen plaque. You might email them with these questions.
Like Anon said, there’s no substitute for a good dental done by a vet, but if health problems prevent such things sometimes we have to do our best without. Once the plaque started chipping off my dogs teeth, I used coconut oil (as a toothpaste) for its antibacterial properties. I do think it helped my dog feel better!
Cheers =)

[anonymous]

Many dogs tend to be stoic, inflammation of the gums is a red flag.
In fact, doing anything other than a dental cleaning and whatever else is recommended by the specialist could result in increased pain and infection.
https://www.avdc.org/periodontaldisease.html
excerpt below
Periodontal disease begins when bacteria in the mouth form a substance called plaque that sticks to the surface of the teeth.  Subsequently, minerals in the saliva harden the plaque into dental calculus (tartar), which is firmly attached to the teeth. Tartar above the gum line is obvious to many owners, but is not of itself the cause of disease. 
The real problem develops as plaque and calculus spread under the gum line. Bacteria in this ‘sub-gingival’ plaque set in motion a cycle of damage to the supporting tissues around the tooth, eventually leading to loss of the tooth. Bacteria under the gum line secrete toxins, which contribute to the tissue damage if untreated. These bacteria also stimulate the animal’s immune system. The initial changes cause white blood cells and inflammatory chemical signals to move into the periodontal space (between the gum or bone and the tooth). The function of the white blood cells is to destroy the bacterial invaders, but chemicals released by the overwhelmed white blood cells cause damage to the supporting tissues of the tooth. Instead of helping the problem, the patient’s own protective system actually worsens the disease when there is severe build-up of plaque and tartar.
Periodontal disease includes gingivitis (inflammation [reddening] of the gums) and periodontitis (loss of bone and soft tissue around the teeth). There is a wide range in the appearance and severity of periodontal disease, which often cannot be properly evaluated or treated without general anesthesia for veterinary patients. Effects within the oral cavity include damage to or loss of gum tissue and bone around the teeth, development of a hole (‘fistula’) from the oral cavity into the nasal passages causing nasal discharge, fractures of the jaw following weakening of the jaw bone, and bone infection (‘osteomyelititis’). Bacteria from the mouth can enter the bloodstream and are carried around the body. Studies in dogs have shown that periodontal disease is associated with microscopic changes in the heart, liver, and kidneys. 
Studies in humans have linked periodontal disease to a variety of health problems including poor control of diabetes mellitus and increased severity of diabetic complications. Additionally, it has been shown that diabetes is a risk factor for periodontal disease

[Kevin R]

Ok, well not sure what to do then. Thanks to both of you.

[Acroyali]

That’s very true Anon, so it’s always a good idea to speak with your vet before beginning any dental work at home.
I can’t speak for Kevin, but in my dogs case he was suffering from periodontal disease as well as organ problems (due to the periodontal disease–a hard lesson learned). The vet said that a dental would be beneficial but due to his other problems, knocking him out to clean teeth was too dangerous so I was OK’ed to do little and often cleaning at home. His mouth looked nowhere as good as it would have had he been able to have a dental done. Thankfully, he didn’t develop infection. For most dogs I would strongly recommend a dental done first to “clear the area” and then developing a strict at home tooth-brushing regime, but unfortunately some of us are or have been in the situation where we’re out of options aside from doing what we can at home.
Hopefully Kevin can find something that makes him, his dog, and his vet happy.

[anonymous]

“Ok, well not sure what to do then. Thanks to both of you.”
“The vet here has mentioned sending her to dental vet if need arose.”

Well, there is your answer, imo, consult a dental specialist for the best results. Good luck.
Ps: Most people commenting on these forums/internet are not here in a professional capacity.
Obviously you are worried, that is why you are here.

[Acroyali]

Certainly I’m not a professional or a dental specialist, but I assumed that’s why forums like this exist–so people can share what has worked for them in the past, and the person asking the questions can make their own decision based on their own knowledge, what information is presented, and what their vet recommends.

I’m very grateful to the individual who shared the information regarding FV6x with me even though they weren’t a “specialist”, as I was stuck between a rock and a hard place and my dog was in no way healthy enough to undergo surgery. It cleaned up his mouth, and the vet and I *both* felt that getting the years old crud out of his mouth did nothing but improve his overall health and quality of life.

[Kevin R]

Acroyali mentioned the fragaria vesca and I had heard of that before. Your comment after that was essentially against doing that. That’s why I said that. My dog’s teeth are certainly not as bad as picture I’ve seen; I’m just trying to prevent them from becoming that way. What I’m saying is that my vet has me a little worried about doing the cleaning altogether.

[anonymous]

Well, my vet told me you can’t tell by looking (re periodontal disease). Why not consult a specialist? I don’t get it. You think supplements would be more effective than a specialist….
I would get an opinion, you may be right, maybe the specialist won’t recommend a cleaning for your dog.
Ps: You are listening to people on the internet. Homeopathic views differ greatly from science based veterinary medicine. It is up to you who you choose to believe. I would listen to a vet that has examined my dog and that I have a good relationship with. Just my 2 cents.

[Acroyali]

Kevin, please email the folks at ABC homeopathy. They might be able to help you.

For my dog, cleaning was out of the question and I didn’t feel that leaving years old tartar in his mouth was going to do anything positive in his overall health. His teeth weren’t rotting, but they were built up with tannish colored plaque that wasn’t doing him any favors.

I do know that doing nothing WILL increase problems. When it comes to my dogs, if a vet writes their problem off as “can’t be helped” that’s not good enough for me. I’m no professional, but I’m also not an idiot and dislike the idea that pet owners like us are too stupid to do things on our own when everyone else is out of ideas.

I wish you and your dog the very, very best of luck!

[Kevin R]

I know you can’t tell by looking and no I do not think supplements would be better than a specialist. My vet doesn’t think it’s a huge issue and I kind of think otherwise. I’m just trying to prevent a bigger problem. I will be getting another opinion. Again, I was just asking about any dental supplements that are beneficial.

[anonymous]

Listen, my dog just went in for a dental extraction, one bad tooth way in the back. The vet said because of my daily brushings, a dental cleaning was not indicated. She has never had a professional cleaning, so far, not recommended.

She is a senior, she has had 2 other teeth fall out root and all within the past year. This is what happens as they age.
I am not aware of any dietary supplements that would remove tartar or prevent periodontal disease. However, if I was not reassured by my vet’s assessment I would consult a specialist.
Ps: I was able to pick up that there was a problem because my dog screamed in pain when I tried to brush her teeth in the area of the bad tooth, something she usually tolerated.
Otherwise, she showed no symptoms.

[Kevin R]

Hi Acroyali, I’m trying the fragaria vesca now. No noticeable results yet but it’s a little soon. I contacted ABC Homeopathy and they told me me that they could not help as far as any usage against tartar. I am currently using 3 pellets of the 6x. I let them sit in 1/4 cup of warm water for 5 minutes first and do it daily. Does this sound about what like you had in mind or how you’ve done it in the past? I got this dosage off another website; a pretty reputable site I believe. Thanks.

[anonymous]

Update: My dog had one tooth extracted about a month ago (see previous post), she went back in recently due to symptoms of pain and discomfort in one of her back teeth.
This time a full dental and x-rays were done, one molar and 3 root remnants extracted….you would have never have know by looking as her teeth look pristine due to daily brushings x 8 years.
This is her first professional cleaning (not bad) 🙂
I strongly urge people to have a professional cleaning and x-rays done for their pet at the first sign of trouble.
Sprays and such are just breath fresheners at best. Daily brushing does help but even daily brushing doesn’t get below the gum line where the trouble is.
Don’t be foolish. Hope this helps someone.
Ps: The anesthesia they use now is milder than even a few years ago, she was in and out in a few hours. Never even missed a meal! Normally they would be NPO after midnight but the dental was done as an emergency.

[Kevin R]

I’m just going by the advice of my vet.

[anonymous]

Dental Disease in Dogs and Cats: Does Treatment Improve Health?

Check the most recent comments. Hope this helps someone.

[anonymous]

In yesterday’s Herald, informative article, excerpt below:
http://www.bostonherald.com/lifestyle/2017/05/dog_s_abscess_leads_to_12_tooth_extractions
The Vet Dr. John De Jong Sunday, May 28,2017
Dog’s abscess leads to 12 tooth extractions
Q “My 10-year-old Jack Russell terrier has led a healthy life free of any problems. Last week, in what seemed like an overnight occurrence, her left cheek swelled up just under her eye. I rushed her to the vet, who told me that she had a tooth abscess and needed blood work, anesthesia and an extraction of the affected tooth. A few hours later, I found out that she needed 12 extractions. She went home on pain medication and antibiotics, and I received a whopping bill for the vet’s services. I know my vet had told me for a few years that she needed to have her teeth cleaned, but was this an unusual occurrence? At what point should I have had her teeth cleaned, and would the vet have needed to extract any teeth earlier? My dog has recovered beautifully and is eating, playing and, I dare say, has better breath.”
A “What your dog developed was something called a carnassial tooth abscess. It is not an uncommon finding in dogs whose teeth have developed a lot of tartar and plaque over years of not having proper dental cleanings by a veterinarian and owners not brushing the pet’s teeth at home. I readily admit that brushing a dog’s teeth can be difficult if the animal puts up a fuss, but if that’s the case, then let the professionals do their job”.
“I would suspect that your veterinarian knew when to advise a cleaning for your dog’s teeth. Had they been done as needed on a regular basis, some or all of the extractions might have been avoided­. As the teeth decay and bacteria gets under the gum line, the roots of the teeth become infected in their sockets and the teeth loosen as the infection affects the surrounding tissue. One might note bad breath, swelling of the gums, loosening of the teeth, pocketing around the teeth, root exposure and more. When things get too bad and the infected abscess develops without a place to drain, a swelling can develop on the cheek. In severe cases, it can even rupture, leading to a draining hole on the face.”

“Luckily, it is relatively easily remedied by extracting the teeth and using the kinds of medications your dog was given.”
“Dental health is important in pets and should be taken seriously by owners. You learned the expensive way, but luckily your dog will be fine.”

[InkedMarie]

Timely Anon, Boone goes for his dental in the morning. Praying for no extractions.

[pitlove]

Great article anon! Pet owners DO NOT understand the importance of oral hygiene and dentals for dogs. Periodontal disease is actually more of an epidemic than obesity in the pet population in the US. Drives me insane that people actually think vets are just out for money by suggesting dentals.

@marie- Hope all goes well for Boone!

[anonymous]

@ Marie, Good luck tomorrow

[InkedMarie]

Thanks PitLove & Anon!

[denim s]

Kevin, I think doggie toothpaste is good solution rather than dental spray. I always suggest toothpaste as a trainer.

[anonymous]

@ Marie
I forgot to mention. I don’t read the pre-op paperwork…I just sign it.
Too scary! :/

[InkedMarie]

Five extractions 🙁

[anonymous]

Not unusual for a senior. I guarantee that you will feel better. Boone will too!

Over the last few years I have needed a couple of root canals, Not fun, but necessary.

[InkedMarie]

Anon: I’m sure he will feel better but I feel horrible that I didnt realize how bad they were. The vet didn’t say anything when he had his yearly, he examined, visually, his teeth; didn’t say how bad they were. Bone loss etc. My poor boy. Mom needs an adult beverage.

[anonymous]

I know, maybe a glass of wine or two. Think about the pets we had years ago, heck I never had dental cleanings (back then). Never mind the family dog.

I think the vets hesitate to recommend routne cleanings, xrays, until there are signs of trouble.
They really can’t tell, until they do xrays, but, inflammation to the gums is always a red flag,
no matter how good the teeth look below the gum line.

[pitlove]

Marie-

Sorry to hear that. Anon is right though, they can’t ever say for sure until they do the radiographs. One thing that bugs me with a lot of vets is not pushing radiographs before and after dentals/extractions. Thats how roots get left behind.

[InkedMarie]

We’ve had a number of shelties & two smooth fox terriers; crap for teeth. Boone isnt far behind. I have no family dog as a kid; I was 28 & married with two kids before i finally got my dog!

One of my groomers suggested to Steve that we see the person…I have no idea what vet professional she is, or isn’t, who does dentals for dogs who are awake. I told him yesterday why that is a bad idea…can you imagine her cleaning his teeth, when five needed to come out? I hate them being put under but for me, preferable to this type of dental.

Pitluv: I have all but one of the pre-dental X-rays, I dont know if they did them after. They gave me copies so I could see the damage.

[anonymous]

I think it is to keep the cost down. Vets have a hard time convincing pet owners to do a routine cleaning/extractions for $200 to $500, so to add another $200 to $300 for xrays puts some folks over the edge and running toward the homeopathic camp.

[InkedMarie]

Well, I do lots of homeopathic/holistic but crappy teeth need attention. I get scared because the little poophead is 11yrs old. I worry about anesthesia.

He’s fine, very sleepy which is expected. Ate, twice, peed once. Will probably be a new boy in the morning!

Thanks Anon & PitLove!

[pitlove]

It cuts cost in the immediate, but if a root gets left behind it is far more expensive to see a dental specialist to repair the damage. I just did a rotation through a dental speciality clinic and the most frequent cases she sees are teeth that got pulled with roots left behind and tooth reabsorption.

[pitlove]

Marie, I’m glad Boone is doing fine recovering from anesthesia. Luckily they don’t have to be knocked out for too long for a dental. So far in all the clinics I’ve been in I’ve never personally seen complications from anesthesia. Not that it doesn’t happen. Bentley had a reaction to the ketamine they used as the induction agent when he got neutered and had a seizure. But that’s how we found out he is predisposed to seizures so now we are careful what meds we give him. Luckily it seems to have been an isolated incident.

[InkedMarie]

Years ago, when the aol dog message boards were still around, someone’s sheltie died during a dental so I always have that in the back of my mind.

Last time Boone had a dental, he had a tooth extracted & a few days after, he lost the clot and started bleeding. Hope that doesn’t happen this time!

[pitlove]

Yeah unfortuntely that’s a breed thing with collie types. Certain drugs pass the blood brain barrier with them that normally wouldn’t.

[crazy4cats]

Hi IM- Hope Boone is doing better today. It’s always scary when our pets have to be put under, especially when they are seniors.

I had two of my cats in for their annual exams a few months ago. They are both about the same age, got them at the same time as kittens and they are fed exactly the same food. The male just gets a little bit more. My poor female is smaller and has short legs and shouldn’t eat as much but wants to. (I know the feeling :/) Haha!

Anyway, the vet was so pleased with how her teeth looked and mentioned her beautiful green eyes to go along with her pearly white teeth. Then she looked at the male’s teeth and crunched up her nose. She said he needed a dental very badly. They did x-rays and bloodwork. The xrays showed that two of his teeth had roots that were disintegrating and needed to be pulled. Had they not done the xrays, they might not have been able to see that and his teeth would have eventually broke and most likely cause a lot of pain. He did fine with his dental and it cost WAY too much. This was a VCA vet that are not known for their friendly prices. But, they are thorough. I hope anyway.

So, in conclusion, there must be a lot of genetics involved with teeth health as well as maintenance. These two cats are not related, but almost exactly the same age and have totally different oral health. He’s doing fine without two of his fangs, but looks funny when he yawns. 🙂

[InkedMarie]

I cant imagine a cat missing fangs!

Boone is his normal self. Still wants to bark at everything outside so his mouth must feel okay LOL

[crazy4cats]

Yeah, it bothered me a lot when they told me which teeth they were. It makes me think of the abominable snowman on Rudolph! Lol! He’s eating and doing just fine without! I bought some of the Hill’s oral care kibble to give the cats as treats after they eat their meals. They are huge and require a lot of chewing. Hopefully, they help some. Pretty tough to find time to catch and brush four cats teeth!

Glad Boone is back to normal.

[pitlove]

C4c-

While at the dental speciality clinic for my rotation I saw a cat have all of its teeth extracted for the same reason. It’s called tooth reabsorption. Apparently it is extremely common in cats. Very painful as well. The vet there said it’s the same feeling like when we have a cavity and eat something that hurts it but all the time. Ouch!!

Do you ever try to brush your cats teeth? I’ve tried but it’s so hard with her small mouth haha

[crazy4cats]

Yes, she did call it reabsorption. Oh, I hope he doesn’t lose the rest of them! They recommended for him to have an annual cleaning. We’ll see how he does. No, I haven’t tried to brush his teeth. He doesn’t like to be held much. Just giving him medicine is a two person job!

[pitlove]

Hopefully the annual cleanings will help. I’m not positive how tooth reabsorption can be prevented.

The more I learn about cats in school the more I realize there is such little research done on cats. It’s so sad 🙁

[Author]

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