[pacer1978]

Does anyone know the difference between the two? I give my two older dogs (one being a Weimaraner) Dasuquin. I’ve been giving it to her for years and she seems to not have hip/joint issues. However, I noticed that Cosequin was a bit cheaper. I also saw another hip/joint product and was thinking of switching her to Vet’s Best. Does anyone know about their products and if they are good? If it isn’t broke, don’t fix it…so I may just leave her on the Dasuquin…but, was looking for a little more affordable alternatives.

Also, if you feed your dog good quality dog food, I heard that there wouldn’t be a need to give them supplements. How does anyone feel about that? With that being said, it is recommended to give a dog probiotics as well?

[Hound Dog Mom]

HI pacer1978 –

Dasequin and cosequin are very similar and they’re both made by the same company – Nutramax Labs. Both contain glucosamine and chondroitin (Cosequin may also have an option with MSM) but in addition to the glucosamine and chondroitin, Dasequin also contains ASU – another ingredient believed to protect against cartilage damage. I’ve used some Vet’s Best products (I’m currently using their Dental Gel) and I think they make good products – it would be worth trying their joint supplements to see if your dog receives the same relief.

When feeding a balanced dog food supplements aren’t necessary (in fact synthetic vitamin/mineral supplements can potentially be harmful) but dogs can benefit from some supplements such as joint supplements, probiotics, enzymes and whole food based supplements. Probiotics are great – you can use a supplement or give your dog some plain yogurt or kefir a few days per week.

[theBCnut]

When feeding all commercial dog food, I would still give digestive enzymes, probiotics, fish oil, and some kind of superfood supplement.

[Hound Dog Mom]

One other thing I didn’t think to mention in my previous post is that if you are looking to cut costs but want to continue to give your dogs high quality joint supplements look into human joint supplements – this also goes for all other supplements (probiotics, enzymes, etc.) as well. Human supplements tend to be higher in quality and generally cost significantly less per dose. Just adjust the dose – 1/4 human dose per 25 lbs. (dogs >100 lbs. can have the recommended human dose). Swanson’s is where I shop for all my dogs’ supplements.

[pacer1978]

Thank you for your responses. I wasn’t sure if the human supplements would still be beneficial for dogs. So…this is what I plan on doing. Can you let me know if this is recommended? I switch dog food every now and then (all 4-5 star brands). Currently, I have them on Solid Gold MMellenium. I give Mia (4-yr old Weim) and Lucy (guessing age to be around 10, not sure of breed, she is a mix) 2 Nordic Naturals fish capsules for dogs per day. I give Mattie (12-yr old Weim) and Lucy 1 Dasuquin per day. I will most likely start Mia on this soon as well. I plan on starting them on Coconut oil (heard there was a good brand through Costco or Cocotherapy was also good). Also considering probiotic..or prebiotic? Which is better? Any brands you would recommend for the pro/prebiotic?
They issues they experience:
For the most part, they are healthy with the occasional allergy bouts (chewing/licking paws). Lucy gets watery eyes..which has gotten a little better after getting her teeth cleaned (they pulled 4 teeth). Weims tend to get bad hips as they age, hence the Dasuquin. Mia sheds a lot for a Weim and Lucy does as well, Mattie not too bad. Mia also tends to have what appears to be flaky skin and usually a rash or irritation on her chest (most likely from the mat in her cage since I crate her during the day. She gets in trouble and tears papers up around the house when I don’t). I keep the mat clean, so I’m not really sure why this keeps happening. I’ve tried different types of mats thinking maybe she is allergic to the material, but that doesn’t help. I’m mainly just looking to improve their overall health and wasn’t sure if doing all this would be wasting money or actually helping. Thanks again!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Check out Swanson’s – I’d recommend Dr. Langer’s 15 Strain Probiotic or Swanson Ultra Soil-Based Microorganisms. Both are high quality and reasonably priced. Swanson’s also has a great price on their organic extra virgin coconut oil. I order all my supplements an my dogs’ supplements from here.

[pacer1978]

Thanks Hound Dog Mom…is this by chance the correct website that you order from?

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-soil-based-organisms-90-caps

I did notice that they also offer a pet probiotic. Do you recommend the human probiotic over that because you had mentioned that they are higher quality? If that is the case, why are there “pet” supplements to begin with? Thanks again!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yes that’s the site I order from. There really isn’t a difference between human supplements and animal supplements. It’s important to make sure whatever human supplement you plan on using for your dog contains ingredients safe for dogs (generally not a concern with digestive supplements and joint supplements) and you’ll need to adjust the dose according to your dog’s weight. The main difference is that pet supplements usually come in powders or meat flavored chewables where human supplements typically come in tablets, capsules or softgels. With tablets I just crush them or split them and mix them in the food, for capsules I open them up and sprinkle the powder in their food and with softgels I use a thumbtack to poke a hole and squeeze it over the food. I wouldn’t use any of the pet probiotics the two I see that they offer aren’t as good as the human versions and they’re more expensive – Jarrow Pet Dophilus only has 5 strains of probiotics and costs $0.20 per serving and the Flying Basset Pro Animal Probiotic only has one strain and costs $0.27 per serving. The Swanson Ultra Soil-Based Organisms has 15 strains of probitoics + 5 enzymes + whole foods and only costs $0.11 per serving – since it’s made for humans I’d also assume it’s better quality.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[pacer1978]

Hope you all don’t mind me asking one more question. If I give my dogs Nordic Naturals Omega Fish Oils and Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil, do I still need to give them Dasuquin/Cosuquin? Wouldn’t both oils help with joints or am I wrong? I just don’t want to be spending money where I don’t have to if there isn’t more of a benefit or “over-supplement”.

Also, is it OK to give all the dosages in the mornings? I sometimes get home late since I take evening classes and that means my husband has to feed the dogs. I know he won’t keep up on giving them the supplements adequately and giving it to them in the mornings is the only way I can ensure they are getting everything.
Thanks again!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Pacer –

Omega 3’s found in fish oil can be beneficial for joints due to their anti-inflammatory effects, however they wouldn’t be a substitute for a joint supplement.

[pacer1978]

Thanks Hound Dog Mom….just to confirm one small detail. It was stated to give a dog 1/4 tsp per 10 lbs of the coconut oil. For easy measuring with an eye drop, I converted tsp to ml. 1 tsp = 1.23 ml.
My two bigger dogs are about 55-60lbs and my smaller one is about 35-40. So…
1.23 x 6 (per 10lbs) = 7.38 ml of coconut oil
1.23 x 4 (per 10lbs) = 4.92 ml of coconut oil

These seems a bit high to me. Is that accurate?

So, to reiterate…my dogs receive:
Mattie (12 yrs, 55-60 lbs, Weimaraner): Daily- 1 Dasuquin (for joint for older dog), 7.38 ml of coconut oil (for overall health), and will start on probiotic once received (for overall health/digestive support)
Mia (4 yrs, 55-60 lbs, Weimaraner): Daily- 2 fish oils (skin/coat/shedding/flaky skin/slight allergies), 7.38 ml of coconut oil, and will start on probiotic once received
Lucy (approx. 10yrs old??, 35-40 lbs, mix): Daily- 1 Dasuquin (joint for older dog), 2 fish oils (skin/coat/shedding/slight allergies), 4.92 ml of coconut oil, and probiotic once received

Is this too much or OK in your opinion? You seem to be knowledgeable and offer assistance to many on the forum. Are you a vet or what is your background?

[theBCnut]

1 teaspoon is about 5 ml and I give 1 teaspoon per 20 lbs, so my 40 lb dogs each get 2 teaspoons. A 60 lb dog could have 3 teaspoons or 15 ml

[Hound Dog Mom]

I’ve heard up to 1 tsp. per 20 lbs., as Patty stated. It is a maximum dose though – you don’t have to give that much and can certainly give less if fat and/or calories are a concern. My girls (one slightly under 70 lbs. and the other slightly over 70 lbs.) get 1 tbs. each per day.

That actually sounds like a well rounded supplement regimen to me – definitely not overboard. If you’re looking to cut costs on the joint supplements I’d highly recommend checking out Swanson’s. There are so many different supplements to choose from all at a reasonable price. For a senior dog with joint issues you’d want to be sure to include something with joint maintenance properties and also anti-inflammatory properties. Glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, hyaluronic acid, esterified fatty acids (such as celadrin), green lipped mussel, sea cucumber, shark cartilage and velvet antler all support the maintenance of joints. Turmeric (or curcumin), boswellia, bromelain, tart cherry, yucca, microlactin, omega 3’s, devil’s claw and white willow all have natural anti-inflammatory properties. You can try some combinations until you find what works. Swanson’s does sell a supplement called “Mobility Essentials” which contains glucosamine, MSM, boswellia, bromelain, chondroitin, white willow, curcumin, devil’s claw, quercetin, sea cucumber and yucca – at $10.99 for 180 caps (a 60 lb. dog would need 3 – 4 caps per day and a 40 lb. dog would need 2 – 3 caps per day) it’s a bargain and I know people who have success with it for both human and animal use. I used NOW Foods brand Celadrin + MSM ($16.49 for 120 caps) for my senior before he died.

No, I’m not a vet. I’m currently working towards my bachelor’s in veterinary technology and canine nutrition is my main area of interest. As of now I plan on applying to vet school after I get my vet tech degree – not sure if it will happen or not, I’ll just have to see how everything pans out.

[pacer1978]

OK…great. I know the Dasuquin I give the girls does have the MSM in it. I pay about $70-$80 for 150 tablets. I’ll have to check out what you recommended if it is that much cheaper. I feel that Mattie is doing great on the Dasuquin since she hasn’t had any hip/joint issues so far. My male, before he passed, had mild hip dysplesia. I wish I knew a lot of what I know now. I had just started him on the Dasuquin 2 weeks before he died from bloat. Anyway, thank you for answering all of my questions. I know I had a lot of them and you help others as I’ve seen your responses everywhere. I appreciate all the help. Good luck with your schooling. I am going to school myself, though not for veterinarian medicine. I could only imagine how rich of a career you will have serving our furry friends!

[pacer1978]

P.S- Are you learning all of this in veterinarian school in regards to the supplements and what supplement/herbs help what issues? I’m wondering why veterinarians don’t suggest these types of supplements for our dogs..especially the cheaper alternative with the human supplements. It seems like all they want to do is give them shots to “clear” things up, only for the allergy/rash to return. Do you think it is because of the money?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Supplements (especially herbal and whole foods supplements) aren’t something students learn about in veterinary technology or veterinary medicine classes. It’s just something I research on my own. It seems most veterinarians would rather prescribe antibiotics or steroids than to try and get to the root of the problem – which more often than not is correlated with poor nutrition. I don’t believe it’s a money thing, I just don’t think most vets know the alternatives. The big corporate food companies and pharmaceutical companies have a lot of power and it extends into the veterinary classroom. Check out Dr. Karen Becker’s website healthypets(dot)mercola(dot)com – I’m a big fan of hers and her website has a lot of great information. I also really like Dr. Goldstein – he has a wonderful book called “The Nature of Animal Healing.”

[pacer1978]

Ok, I’ll check the site out.
What is your opinion on vaccinations and things like Frontline and Heartguard? I took my dogs off of that and only get them rabies shots since that is the law. I don’t ever board them and they are all inside dogs. We don’t live in the “country” so to speak and not near standing water, so not a lot of mosquitoes so don’t really feel the need for all of that. But, I get the “disapproving” looks when the vets mention that they need another heartworm test or some other vaccine. If we move out further into the country where there is tall grasses, I can understand and most likely will put them back on preventative medicine like Heartguard, but the research I did on it explained how hard it is for pets to actually contract it. The article made sense and Mattie was having bad skin reactions a few years back and was diagnosed with Canine Atopy or something like that. She was put on a very strong and very expensive ($100/mth) medicine. It just makes me wonder with all the chemicals in vaccines and topicals for fleas that it would have some side effects. Of course, something else could have caused it since at the time I wasn’t aware of what was considered “good” versus “bad” dog food nutrition. I always thought Iams, Pedigree, and Eukanuba to name a few were good dog foods. But, now I know that they are mostly fillers and are less than 4 stars.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I vaccinate my dogs as puppies (8 weeks, 12 weeks and 16 weeks) with the core vaccines. I’ll then get another booster for the core vaccines one year after the final series of puppy boosters. I do not vaccine again after this (aside from rabies every three years which is required by law). I never vaccinate for non-core vaccines such as lyme, bordetella, etc. It’s known that these core vaccines provide immunity much longer than a year and even much longer than the three year intervals that some vets are starting to recommend. Through challenge it has been proven that most of these core vaccines provide immunity for at least 5 to 7 years and it is believed that they may even provide lifetime immunity. Rather than re-vaccinating yearly (or even every three years) it’s much smarter to have a titer – a blood test which measures the dog’s immunity. If the titer shows that your dog is immune there’s no reason to re-vaccinate – re-vaccinating provides no benefit (or increased immunity) it only puts your dog at risk for the negative side affects that may be caused by vaccines. I would highly recommend checking out this series of videos in which Dr. Becker interviews Dr. Ronald Schultz. Dr. Schultz is an immunology specialist in the Department of Pathobiological Sciences at the School of Veterinary Science at the University of Wisconsin – Madison. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/31/what-your-vet-didnt-tell-you-about-all-those-puppy-and-kitty-vaccines.aspx

I do not use any chemical flea or tick preventatives. In my opinion, when it comes to fleas and ticks the best defense is a strong immune system. I have a SNAP 4DX test done on my dogs every 6 months to test for tick transmitted diseases. I comb my dogs with a flea comb daily during flea/tick season and have never found any fleas or ticks (and they’re hounds that spend quite a bit of time outdoors). Since switching to a species-appropriate raw diet I haven’t had any parasite issues (internal or external). I do use some natural-oil based topicals and shampoos and give them an herbal flea and tick tincture from Earth Animal (formulated by Dr. Goldstein).

Concerning Frontline and which contains the active ingredient “fipronil”:

• Dr. Dobozy of the EPA’s Pesticide Division has found that the active ingredient (fipronil) in Frontline remains in a pet’s system with the potential for nervous system and thyroid toxicity. Tests on laboratory animals resulted in thyroid cancer and altered thyroid hormones, liver and kidney toxicity, reduced fertility and convulsions. Frontline’s web site creates the impression that the product stays in the oil glands of the skin. But Dr. Dobozy’s study showed that, in fact, it does enter the body and the organ systems.
• This investigation determined fipronil residues on gloves worn while petting dogs after Frontline application. Frontline contains 9.8% fipronil, which controls fleas and ticks on dogs for at least 30 days. Frontline (1.34 ml) was applied topically on adult household dogs and gloves worn for 5 min during pettingwere collected 24 hr and 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 w post-Frontline application for fipronil residue determinations using GC/MS. The highest concentration of fipronil (589.3 +/- 205.7ppm) was detected 24 h after Frontline application and was undetectable in the gloves collected at 5w. Repeated exposure to such contamination can pose human health risks. [“Human Exposure to Fipronil from Dogs Treated with Frontline” can be found on Pubmed]
• Journal of Pesticide Reform Factsheet: Fipronil:
1. In tests with laboratory animals, fipronil causes aggressive behavior, damaged kidneys, and “drastic alterations in thyroid function.” The fipronil containing product ‘Frontline’ caused changes in the levels of sex hormones.
2. The offspring of laboratory animals exposed to fipronil during pregnancy were smaller than those of unexposed mothers. They also took longer to mature sexually.
3. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency classifies fipronil as a carcinogen because exposure to fipronil caused benign and malignant thyroid tumors in lab animals.

Imidacloprid (active ingredient in Advantage) and Pyrethrins (active ingredient in Biospot) have been found to have similar negative effects.

Concerning heartworm prevention. I do use heartworm prevention, however I’m very conservative with it. My dogs get an ivermectin-based preventative every 45 days during hearworm season. The FDA approvals cite that Heartguard, Interceptor and Revolution provide protection beyond 30 days. I use preventatives that contain heartworm prevention only – I avoid the preventatives that also contain wormers, flea preventatives, etc. I’m in northern NY so I usually end up administering the first dose in early May and the last dose sometime in November. Starting the day after my dogs receive their preventative I give milk thistle daily for one week to help protect their liver from the damaging effects of the ivermectin. The SNAP 4DX test I have done every 6 months also tests for heartworms. Dr. Becker has an article about heartworm prevention here: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/08/03/why-havent-pet-owners-been-told-these-facts-about-heartworm.aspx . This website also has a wealth of information concerning heartworm prevention: http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjheartwormprevention.html .

[C f]

Ppl dont ever give ur dogs “human” glucosamine and chondroitin!!!! Glucosamine is an amino sugar and should be the same regardless if it’s in a human or dog supplement. However, human supplements can contain ingredients that may be unsafe for your dog. Some ingredients that humans use daily can be fatal to dogs. … Glucosamine supplements designed for dogs are better. Spend the extra cash and get the G & C modified for dogs…

[Susan]

Hi C f
Did you know Glucosamine was first researched & tested, on Race Horses & worked a treat so they started to give dogs with joint problems Glucosamine & Chondroitin, how do you think they test most of our medications?? they test on poor animals..
also human grade medications & supplements are of better quality then the dog & cats medications….Just read the ingredient list on any dog Joint supplements & you’ll find they have the same ingredients as the human joint supplements except dog medications & supplements will be double the price..

[anonymous]

“Ppl dont ever give ur dogs “human” glucosamine and chondroitin!!!! Glucosamine is an amino sugar and should be the same regardless if it’s in a human or dog supplement. However, human supplements can contain ingredients that may be unsafe for your dog. Some ingredients that humans use daily can be fatal to dogs. … Glucosamine supplements designed for dogs are better. Spend the extra cash and get the G & C modified for dogs…”

Exactly, better yet, don’t give supplements at all, unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined your pet. Supplements are not medication.
Most supplements are scams.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

[Nancy B]

Has anyone heard whether Dasaquin with MSM can negatively affect liver function?

[anonymous]

Excerpt from:https://www.vetinfo.com/is-it-safe-to-use-human-glucosamine-for-dogs.html
Is It Safe to Use Human Glucosamine for Dogs?
Given the fact that the human glucosamine and the dog glucosamine have the same formulation, the human glucosamine can be safely used in canines.
However, it is highly important to have the right dosage for your pet and never go over the recommended dose. The dose for a larger dog breed may coincide with the dose recommended for a human patient, but smaller dogs need less glucosamine. An excess of glucosamine can lead to bone growth abnormalities and even internal damage. The administration of glucosamine supplements may also affect the liver and the kidneys of the pet in the long run. 
In any case, if you have the choice, it’s better to get glucosamine for veterinary use, as certain glucosamine for humans use have various salts that are included in the drug and these may irritate the dog. Be sure to talk it over with your vet first, as unique factors for each dog may need to be taken into account.
Also: You may find something helpful here, often the comments are informative too
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=glucosamine+

[Dana B]

I love that you are so willing to help. I see your comments from WAY back. I wonder if you have your answers on a .doc so you can copy and paste, and save yourself some typing time… HAHAHA But, THANK YOU so much for your help. I hope your doggies are well.

I am looking for specific answers of Dasuquin ADVANCED (not the kind I can order online)… and a less expensive alternative in human form… like the actual product. My girl is almost 14, a pit/lab/pointer mix, best we can tell. Started with joint pain a year ago mainly in winter. Dasuquin Advanced helps, but it is so expensive. I will pay it, but if there is an equivalent, less expensive… it only makes good sense.

We also have a 9 year old Yorkie who gets pancreatitis abut twice a year. Since I have put him on strict RX ProPlan diet, he is better and less than 4% fat treats… But, he is a little spoiled and would like a variety of at least treats. Any suggestions?

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by Dana B.

[anonymous]

@ Dana

Thanks. I often encourage posters to check the search engine at this site.
Example: /forums/topic/senior-chihuahua-mix-needing-joint-supplement/
But, I think folks are maybe hoping for some new and fresh ideas.

Can your Yorkie have an occasional bite of cooked skinless lean chicken breast?

[Susan]

Hi Dana,
Scroll up to the 2013 posts, read “Hound Dog Mom” post, she recommends cheaper joint meds that are good..
Go on Chewy site & get some “K-9 Natural” Green Lipped Mussels 50g, they’re freeze dried excellent given as treats 1-2 mussels a day, the shell in the mussel has Glucosamine & Chondroitin, the mussel meat is high in Omega 3, low fat & wont cause any stomach pain/acid reflux like alot of these joint meds can cause… If you ask vet or vet nurse they may know of a human grade supplement that has same ingredients as Dasuquin Advance, read ingredient list to the Dasuquin Advance write it down then take to a few Pharmacist/Chemist & ask the Pharmacist is there a joint supplement that has these ingredients….. Green Lipped Mussel are excellent to give especially when your dog has Panreatitis IBD stomach problems….

[Sandy c]

We stopped giving our pets Frontline years ago. Our poor cat (RIP) suffered the most, and developed a hairless patch on the back of her neck underneath the collar where I put the Frontline. Poor baby! Now I just used diatcemeous earth (I’m pretty sure I spelled this wrong). It’s all natural and kills fleas as well as a host of other insect pests. We’ve had no fleas since using this for over a year and it’s much more healthy and inexpensive than Frontline and all the similar poisons we put on our pets. Our vet actually told me about it, she’s been really good with advice for more natural remedies. She also recommended a natural hip and joint for our lab and it’s great, It’s made by Boston Pet Products. I’ll come back with links for both of theses products when I get a chance.I buy both on Amazon, if that helps.

[Suzie T]

Hello! Late to the party here but what amazing info. Thanks. Does anyone know the calories in the dasuquin with msm for small dogs?

[Anonymous]

I don’t know if this is true, but I recently read that MSM can “enhance [naturally occuring] cortisol”.

I wonder if it can possibly cause side-effects similar to an oral steroid. Has anyone noticed these sorts of side effects (peeing more, drinking more, etc.) when using Dasuquin with MSM?

[Author]

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